Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[becca3891]

I know we all believe that Michelle and Jim Bob would blame the girls in the case of sexual assault, but does anyone have an actual cite for this?  I am writing an article, and I need an actual cite where Michelle or Jim Bob say exactly that.  The closest I can find is them saying that "If a woman dresses immodestly she stirs up desires in the man that cannot be righteously fulfilled"

 

But that isn't good enough.  I need something where they say specifically, that they believe the woman is at fault for being assaulted.  Does anyone have a cite for that?

This site has images from Gothard's booklet on "counseling" sexual abuse. I know I've posted it before, but things are moving so fast and since you seem new to the discussion and directly asked, I will post it again. He indicates that defrauding by immodesty and failing to cry out while being attacked are both reasons why the victim is at fault. Nauseating. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/there-is-no-victim-a-survey-of-iblp-literature-on-sexual-assault-and-abuse/

[trimthatfat]

But with so many people just making up their own versions of events, I think it's not a bad thing to have a reputable news organization put together something that's as accurate as it can be with current information. At least there's something to point to when idiots try to sell people a revised, more pro-Josh narrative.

I suppose. I just feel like some of the attempts to put the pieces together has more to do with satisfying curiosity/nosiness than anything else and that bothers me. That's just my opinion.

[Betweenyouandme]

http://matthewbdrake.com/2015/05/23/three-reasons-why-you-should-shut-up-about-the-josh-duggar-scandal/

Just read this about one person's view about discussing the molestation, etc.

[ratherbereading]

What a creep. Being handed everything just isn't enough for some people. I'm so happy for you that you were able to process things and move on. Joyous life to you.

I need to look into this Amazon Smile thing people are talking about. I pretty much never pay any attention to my Amazon account, but it sounds like something useful is happening.

 

http://smile.amazon.com/about/ref=smi_ge_ul_lm_raas

 

This pretty much explains the program. I mean if you are going to buy something on Amazon, why not buy it through the smile program and have money donated to a charity. It's not much (.5% of the purchase price) but every little bit adds up.

 

I changed mine to Stop It Now as well, thanks Wanderwoman.

[SometimesBites]

RE the remark from Duggar Support System referring to public reaction as sharks in a feeding frenzy:

1. The Duggars are public figures, by choice. They have enjoyed the perks of that station for many years--now they are experiencing the shadow side of "celebrity." Ya don't get one without risking the other.

2. The "blood in the water" came from Josh. Josh's despicable actions with his innocent little sisters are the genesis of the ENTIRE SHIT TORNADO.

3. If this repeated molestation had happened at the hands of a dark and terrible stranger, would they not be outraged by that abuse? Would they be calling for forgiveness and understanding? Would they call the media sharks under those circumstances...or would they not be somewhat gratified if a media frenzy erupted that called for the abuser's head on a pike?

[autumnh]

This site has images from Gothard's booklet on "counseling" sexual abuse. I know I've posted it before, but things are moving so fast and since you seem new to the discussion and directly asked, I will post it again. He indicates that defrauding by immodesty and failing to cry out while being attacked are both reasons why the victim is at fault. Nauseating. http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/there-is-no-victim-a-survey-of-iblp-literature-on-sexual-assault-and-abuse/

 

Just reading a bit of that makes me shudder.

 

I have a feeling that the layers are juuuust starting to be peeled back. It might not happen right away but I do think that this will allow other Gothard victims come forward and that that cult will be exposed for what it is.  I have no doubt that this is going to be come a huge expose.

[leighdear]

It's very difficult to get an "annulment" here in Florida.  Florida laws don't even address annulments, just cases of if the marriage is void (never legal to begin with) or voidable (circumstances found out after the fact).  It requires a LOT of paperwork, a lot of proof and a decision from the Appellate court.  And that's just the civil part.  The Baptist church they got married in may not even recognize an annulment. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2015 by leighdear

[merylinkid]

Putting the pieces together is actually very important to processing and understanding.   We are doing much the same thing here, trying to figure out what happened when and who did what when.   It's actually what law enforcement and lawyers do all the time.   We hear something from witness A and go "that's nice."   Then we hear something from Witness B and go "hey, that goes with what Witness A said, let's dig some more."   And suddenly it all clicks.   When it happens during a trial, we call it a Perry Mason moment.   

 

I'm fine with WaPo putting together a timeline.   It gives people something concrete to go with rather than just pure speculation about the events.   If someone says "Oh well, they went to law enforcement on such and such a date" you can look at the timeline to see if that is accurate or not.  Then make up your own mind.

 

BTW, since I have a functioning brain I can be up in arms about Josh AND Benghazi at the same time.

[Zung Li]

http://bitterjealousfatties.yuku.com/topic/964/Josh-Duggar-Molested-Sisters#.VWJBUo1FDIU

 

I've seen the "Alice" comments on a couple of sites (I haven't looked around too much) but this one is the most comprehensive. She is commenting back and forth with people but this is only showing her comments. In a couple of them she talks about Josh and pornography. She says he was looking at the internet and all the filth that is on there (paraphrasing)  She knows a lot about the situation and lets it be known that she is willing to tell anyone who asks. I was wondering if Josh or anyone had access to the internet because I never watched the show. Maybe that's what his private videography room was used for.

[RazzleberryPie]

Putting the pieces together is actually very important to processing and understanding.   We are doing much the same thing here, trying to figure out what happened when and who did what when.   It's actually what law enforcement and lawyers do all the time.   We hear something from witness A and go "that's nice."   Then we hear something from Witness B and go "hey, that goes with what Witness A said, let's dig some more."   And suddenly it all clicks.   When it happens during a trial, we call it a Perry Mason moment.   

 

I'm fine with WaPo putting together a timeline.   It gives people something concrete to go with rather than just pure speculation about the events.   If someone says "Oh well, they went to law enforcement on such and such a date" you can look at the timeline to see if that is accurate or not.  Then make up your own mind.

 

BTW, since I have a functioning brain I can be up in arms about Josh AND Benghazi at the same time.

I appreciate the timeline, too. It indicates good journalism, by listing facts in a clear, orderly manner, which helps readers understand the order of everything.

[MarysWetBar]

I can't stand that know-it-all asshole. I've disliked him ever since the first time he posting on his blog, after hitching his wagon to the Duggar Fame Train. His wife came off well during the wedding broadcasts, but he's a first class creeper. And the fact that he defends the way the Duggar parents handled the situation (which was a complete and epic FAIL), despite the fact that his DAUGHTER-IN-LAW and mother of his first grandchild, was likely molested as a child, is mind-numbing.

Jessa is your family, and SHE deserves your support more than the Duggar Gravy Train does. Are you THAT desperate for your son to remain on a viable Duggar payroll, that you would defend the way this was handled? You can actually look Jessa in the face, now? Amazing, and not in a good way.

Well the way i look at it is that if its that easy for Steve Carrell lite to forgive Josh, he won't mind sending his underage daughters on a tour in the RV with Josh or having them stay with him to help Anna with the new baby. Edited May 24, 2015 by MarysWetBar

[becca3891]

I wondered about Alice's remarks about Josh and internet pornography too. I'm wondering if in 2002-2003, Boob and J'Chelle were not yet aware of what could be found online and their rules about only J'Chelle and Jana having the password and having to have an accountability partner with you on the internet were the result of what Josh confessed to looking at.

 

I don't think the Washington post timeline is a bad or invasive thing. Sadly, the identities of the victims have never been a secret, and there seems to be a lot of confusion for some people on what happened when, so clarifying can only be a good thing.

[Magoo]

Re-reading the "Alice" comments makes me feel like she may have been a member of the production crew/producer who was there in the early years but didn't stay with the show. The way it's written gives the air of a secular outsider's disgust for this family. She was definitely in the know. I wonder if she will come forward now, even if still anonymously, to answer more questions.

[bluebonnet]

 

It creeps me out, too. I just feel like putting together a detailed timeline and/or trying to find out the names of the victims is just so...IDK. I feel like it's intended to satisfy the curiosity of the public when it really doesn't help any of the victims. 

I don't want to speak for others, so here are reasons I find the timeline to be important.

 

1.) It removes power from the abuser and his supporters.  With facts established and presented in a coherent fashion, the abuser and his supporters are no longer able to create their own narrative without rebuttal.  

 

2.) It prevents or at least cuts down on rampant wild speculation.  These are the facts, this is when it happened, this is who knew, period.  Further, it creates an expectation that any new facts must be properly researched to determine validity because if they don't fit with what is already known, they don't deserve to be part of the discussion.

 

3.) It helps me to understand how Josh was able to skip out on any meaningful punishments, and how his parents might have aided.  The law isn't always fair and it's not always right.  Josh's victims may have been further victimized by the law.  I want to understand how and why and I want to know what can be done to change it.  The only way to understand is to look at the law, then look at the known timeline.

 

4.) This is a public family.  It's also an extremely isolated family.  Once they were put on tv, the children became even more isolated than they already were, not to mention the show created a narrative of the family that the children are pressured to follow even when they are not technically working.  Reality tv can be very hard on the children because they are in a near constant state of working.  I need the timeline to be able to determine what the network could have known and when they could have known it.  I think it's important to discuss what we should expect from the networks and what sort of laws and regulations we should push for to protect the children.  For example, if the network knew, should we hold them accountable for anything?  Should we allow children to be reality show employees at all?  Should we require that children on tv meet with an independent licensed counsellor X number of times throughout their employment to monitor their well-being?  Should networks be expected to vet their reality star casts?  And so forth and so on.  

 

5.) The timeline indicates that the tv show can't shoulder all the blame or responsibility.  Outside of tv, the timeline indicates that a political campaign could have also impeded justice and treatment for all those involved.  Should we have different guidelines for what we expect when it comes to the family of politicians?  We're so used to see the family, including young children, being part of their campaign narrative.  Is this harmful?  Is it too much work to place on a child's shoulders?  Does it create a dangerous environment for children?  Children usually aren't part of their parents jobs or the interviews to obtain them.  Does this horrible event justify creating more protections for the children of politicians?  

 

These are just a few reasons the timeline is so important, and for me, it really is all about the victims even if when discussing these things I don't explicitly mention them or future victims.  I want to have the facts before I begin writing my letters to sponsors, networks, lawmakers, police departments, fundies, etc.    

[kathe5133]

I was creeped out by the timeline. Was. I think it brought out in me how some people, not on this site, but some people troll the Internet for answers to thing that are truly none of their business so they can appear "in the know". I don't feel that applies to folks on this site. The Duggars put their lives out there, preached a godly message and are now found to be hypocrites. We would bash them for tater tot casserole and j'slaves, but no one here really thought anything that wrong was going on. This search for facts is necessary for some to come to terms with what was found out, and the timeline does put thing in perspective. The girls do need privacy, but the mods here are very careful to advise all of us when they think things might go too far. The thoughtful, sensitive comments I know are found to be helpful. There are a wide variety of backgrounds here and it is nice that people have a place to share their stories and learn to understand.

Edited May 24, 2015 by kathe5133

[Mrsjumbo]

I keep coming up with more and more things that make me furious about this whole thing - it's like an endless river of anger and sadness...

If Michelle and JB decided to just "pray away" the sins of Josh and sweep the whole thing under the rug, then why, WHY, did they keep doing it when it was obvious that it hadn't stopped ?! In fact, it EXPANDED. More instances. More victims. More girls left to blame themselves for what looks to be a lifetime of shame and self-doubt. And JB and Michelle were...fine with that ?

Josh, that creepy, doughy, pale, fat, fuckface - he ALWAYS gave off some seriously bad vibes, something that got under my skin or made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, but I could never quite place what it was. At times I thought he must be the kid who masturbates constantly in the shower or is always trying to hide an erection, but who cares ?!?! Teenage boys are horn dogs and that's just the way it is - fine with me. But this goes so far beyond the feeling you get when someone stands too close to you in an elevator - discomfort and unease. It's physically revolting.

With all the revelations come to light now I see his picture and it's like looking at Charles Manson or something - he's just so snug, toasty, and comfy in the knowledge that "Jesus has forgiven him". But has he really ? Don't you have to be actually sorry for what you DID, and not just for getting caught ?

Here's my take - My older (and MUCH bigger) sister physically abused me for years, and I'm not talking about bullying or punching me in the arm. She'd choke me until I was unconscious. Lock me in closets for HOURS. Push me down flights of steps. Force me to eat dirt or dog food. My mother was fully aware and laughed it off as "childhood shenanigans" - she was also mentally ill but that's another story. When my father was FINALLY told he immediately separated us, and from then until I finally moved out he protected me and I was never alone with her. He wanted to leave and take me with him but in the 70s who's going to give custody to the father ? My sister went to counseling, which did nothing, but my dad insisted they at least try. My mother continued to behave like nothing had happened, like she'd put a whoopee cushion on my chair instead of beating me until I lost teeth and needed stitches. But thank God I had one normal parent who did his very best to keep me safe. He's gone now, but I continue to love him as my hero and savior, and I miss him every day. In a house simply FILLED with crazy he was my sanity.

So that's how it happens - you get a kid who's a "bad seed" and parent/parents who are blind to it, crazy, or directed by some trumped-up cult of patriarchal, misogynistic bullshit and the whole world turns upside-down. The fact the the girls had NO ONE, neither father nor mother, nor grandma, either, apparently, is just so heartbreaking it makes me physically ill. All the feelings of loneliness, betrayal, and probably the constant, unending fear that Josh would just keep moving down the line age-wise with the other girls must have made those poor girls feel like they'd been abandoned by the very God they'd been raised to love and obey.

I hope Josh loses everything. I hope Anna gets away with all the kids and finds support and financial help from OUTSIDE the Gothards so she can start her life over. I hope ALL the kids get the Hell outta dodge, maybe staying with the older girls, married or not, and they can make new lives together with the only REAL mother they've ever known.

And JB and Michelle ? I hope they get old and get stuck in the shittiest horrorshow of a nursing home in existence. They Michelle can say "I have 19 children and I delivered them ALL, and now NONE of them come to visit me..."

[leighroda]

I'm not really a fan of the "they chose to be public figures" line of thinking as far as speculation goes. Yes Jim Bob and Michelle chose to be public figures, and Josh has chosen to be a public figure himself, and is ultimately responsible for his own actions... But the victims did not have control of what happened, and I'm not convinced some of them were ever 100% on board with being on TV (ie Jana)(disclaimer, I am not saying for fact Jana was a victim, I don't know that, just more that I don't know if she wants to be on tv), so while I don't really care how Josh or his parents get drug through the dirt for it, I do hope for the victims sake this can be handled more privately.

[Mrsjumbo]

I would love to make "Josh that creepy, doughy, pale, fat, fuckface" the title of this thread.

[Darknight]

I don't agree with thumpers saying this coming out is old move on and it re victimize the victim. I agree with the re the victims may be re victimize but they were re victimize everyday when they were forced to forgive, look at their abuser everyday, and then chaperone him for his wedding and dates.

I'm not really a fan of the "they chose to be public figures" line of thinking as far as speculation goes. Yes Jim Bob and Michelle chose to be public figures, and Josh has chosen to be a public figure himself, and is ultimately responsible for his own actions... But the victims did not have control of what happened, and I'm not convinced some of them were ever 100% on board with being on TV (ie Jana)(disclaimer, I am not saying for fact Jana was a victim, I don't know that, just more that I don't know if she wants to be on tv), so while I don't really care how Josh or his parents get drug through the dirt for it, I do hope for the victims sake this can be handled more privately.

Which is why there should be laws in place for things like this

[Happyfatchick]

The lyrics/song title: “When the walls come crumbling down" comes to mind with this situation.

This quote by Abraham Lincoln really nails it: “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time".

I think the walls came "tumbling" down - there was a childhood song about the walls of Jericho came tum-ble-Ing down. Also that band, the Traveling Wilburys sang a song "...and the wa-alls came "tum-ble-ing, tum-ble-ing"... I'm pretty sure if aging myself out right now.

Ah, BrianJ, you've had SUCH a tough time of it. My heart truly goes out to you. So many people have shared tough stories on here the last few days - I feel like, WOW, who KNEW???? I feel so blessed and lucky to have made adulthood without really ever having to live thru some of the horrendous things we've heard, including your story. My heart just cracks in half for those hard growing up stories! I hope everybody who has shared and will share landed softly and that things are truly better now.

[Muffyn]

I believe for anyone who experiences sexual assault, it's not a one and done in terms of counseling. It's a process that happens over one's lifetime. There are many triggers.

This is exactly why this story has captured so many people's interest.  More and more discussion is taking place regarding rape culture and victim blaming in terms of placing the blame for sexual assault and domestic violence on the victims.  At the same time, we have a public forum given to the Duggars to preach their beliefs that young girls need to be covered up to keep from "defrauding" boys and men, leading them to sin.  The onus is placed firmly on the girls and women.  Additionally the men are harmed by this ridiculous assertion that they cannot control themselves.   JB&M fed this crap to their children.  Josh helps spread it further.

 

Reading this board, so many people have mentioned their history of familial abuse or rape.  You can add me to that count.  While I know there are people that don't like the term triggers since, as often happens, it may be hitting the point of overuse, this story is a trigger for so many people who have been abused.  So thanks to Josh, JB & Michelle, so many people are now reliving or rethinking horrific events from their past. 

 

The Duggars have held themselves up as a perfect family, one to which we should all aspire.  Underneath that picture was a perverted elder son who was able to abuse his sisters and non-family members.  He repented, but did he atone?  From the smug douche bag we have seen, I doubt he did.

 

Oh dear. Josh would've been around 18 or 19 at that time, correct? *not a lawyer* Could he still have been tracked for juvenile offenses? I think a trial opens a lot of possibilities. All bad. Plus the records were sealed. FFS Anna, please get an annulment. God hates divorce. He loves annulments!

And now I want a bumper sticker that reads "God loves annulments". 

[leighdear]

while I don't really care how Josh or his parents get drug through the dirt for it, I do hope for the victims sake this can be handled more privately.

Totally support and agree with this.  The unholy trinity of Josh, Jim Bob & Michelle are the only ones I want to see held accountable.  Though I still say it's open season on the fat-mouth blowhards that benefit financially from the famewhoring, like Michael Seewald. 

[Maizie131]

I would love to make "Josh that creepy, doughy, pale, fat, fuckface" the title of this thread.

Aaaaaaah!  A little levity!  'Tis GOOD!! 

[NextIteration]

Conspiracy types are speculating that the mainstream media is latching onto Duggargate to distract the masses from more important news stories likes the Trans-Pacific Partnership, Jade Helm, Rand Paul's filibuster or even the various marches against Monsanto this weekend.

 

Ha!  That's hilarious.  Why wouldn't the "lame stream media" pick up on a story that has melted down the internet? ;)

 

I didn't even notice the part of the trial - I was just looking for a timeline for how things unfolded this week!

[Fuzzysox]

I would love to make "Josh that creepy, doughy, pale, fat, fuckface" the title of this thread.

LOL Yes please.

 

Today I've thought of Anna all day. I'm sure she is hurting. She doesn't deserve all this stress when she is pregnant. I don't like her stand by her man stance but I do feel for her situation.

[JoanArc]

 

And now I want a bumper sticker that reads "God loves annulments".

It seems they're harder to get than I thought. Maybe Anna could get a divorce then ask the congregation for forgiveness. That seems to be a solid option with these folk. *Barf* FWIW I think they got the marriage license in Arkansas, but had the ceremony in Florida.

 

On another note, I'm overjoyed to see ATI/Gothard entering mass consciousness. The internet has ranted for years about it, but the major media has downplayed or ignored it, but no longer. It's a front page story now. I hope it brings down ATI (or whatever it call itself now). Maybe that's just a dream. They'll keep existing members, and there will always be leghumpers to join, but they need a certain number of followers to stay viable.

 

[snip]

Edited May 24, 2015 by Rhondinella
potentially inflammatory

[Fuzzysox]

This is exactly why this story has captured so many people's interest.  More and more discussion is taking place regarding rape culture and victim blaming in terms of placing the blame for sexual assault and domestic violence on the victims.  At the same time, we have a public forum given to the Duggars to preach their beliefs that young girls need to be covered up to keep from "defrauding" boys and men, leading them to sin.  The onus is placed firmly on the girls and women.  Additionally the men are harmed by this ridiculous assertion that they cannot control themselves.   JB&M fed this crap to their children.  Josh helps spread it further.

 

Reading this board, so many people have mentioned their history of familial abuse or rape.  You can add me to that count.  While I know there are people that don't like the term triggers since, as often happens, it may be hitting the point of overuse, this story is a trigger for so many people who have been abused.  So thanks to Josh, JB & Michelle, so many people are now reliving or rethinking horrific events from their past. 

 

The Duggars have held themselves up as a perfect family, one to which we should all aspire.  Underneath that picture was a perverted elder son who was able to abuse his sisters and non-family members.  He repented, but did he atone?  From the smug douche bag we have seen, I doubt he did.

 

And now I want a bumper sticker that reads "God loves annulments". 

 

 

Even my everyday church going MIL got one. There is no shame. Now it's even easier if your Catholic. Anna now might be the perfect time to convert.

[Sew Sumi]

People has turned on the Duggars and brings Gothard out of the shadows and into the Mainstream conversation. About time! 

 

(edited because People changed the url)

 

http://www.people.com/article/inside-josh-duggar-treatment-

 

I think People getting their collective heads out of JB's ass is a bad sign for the future of the show. TLC can't be feeling good right about now. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[autumnh]

Wow, PEOPLE magazine is actually reporting about the Duggars in a negative light (I say that because it is usually sparkles and rainbows when they feature them). I think the Duggar shiny facade is not so shiny anymore. I doubt we'll see more featured articles.

 

http://www.people.com/article/online-commenter-warned-josh-duggar-molestation

[JoanArc]

Never mind autmnh beat me to it!

 

People posting negative info now leads me to believe they've broken whatever pro-duggar-news contract existed.

Edited May 24, 2015 by JoanArc

[Guest]

From the WaPo article:

"The same year, a reporter for the Northwest Arkansas Times, who now works for the Democrat-Gazette, finds a court document for a case titled Josh Duggar vs. the Arkansas Department of Human Services. The Democrat-Gazette reports:

A trial in that case took place Aug. 6, 2007, according to notes attached to the file. Sealed cases aren’t supposed to be left in public view, but the Duggar case file had been left in a stack of routine court filings at the circuit clerk’s office. The reporter saw no other information on the case at the time.

I sure hope there's an enterprising reporter out there willing to do some legwork to get the details on this because I would sure love to know why Josh sued the DHS.

[truthtalk2014]

I hope Josh loses everything. I hope Anna gets away with all the kids and finds support and financial help from OUTSIDE the Gothards so she can start her life over. I hope ALL the kids get the Hell outta dodge, maybe staying with the older girls, married or not, and they can make new lives together with the only REAL mother they've ever known.

And JB and Michelle ? I hope they get old and get stuck in the shittiest horrorshow of a nursing home in existence. They Michelle can say "I have 19 children and I delivered them ALL, and now NONE of them come to visit me..."

 

I wish Anna would get away and get a job or learn a trade or something.  I am hoping this is a big wake up call for her - just how fast things can change.  The money can end very quickly.  What none of these girls understand is that their husbands might not be around forever to support them.  Look at Derricks Dad.  That had to have been horrible and they only had two children.  However, at least Cathy had a career.  These girls have nothing.  They assume that because the loser Boob is still plowing along being as perverted as ever, that it always works out that way.  

 

I read somewhere that Oprah offered to send Jana and Jill to a real school midwifery school and they declined.  Of course they can't go out and be around perverts in the real world.  Gotta stay home and deal with the good Christians.  Barf!

 

As far as JB and MEchelle- I hope they do as well.  Or maybe Josie will take care of them and film them when she has to change their poopy diapers.  

Edited May 24, 2015 by AmandaPanda
remove inflammatory language

[HumblePi]

Not planning on going over there, because I expect it'll break my brain more than I can afford, but if everything everyone said isn't real or true, what is Josh repenting for?

I read just about all I could stand from Michael Seewald. This paragraph in particular almost 'broke my brain' as you say.

 

"There are others that see this episode as a result of sheltering and repressing human desires. They think that had he access to sex education by Planned Parenthood, been allowed to watch edgy Hollywood films, been encouraged to experimentation with a girlfriend, or gotten free condoms from the local school nurse, then none of this would have happened. Right. The stupidity of some people is mind boggling. Fan the flames of youthful lust and you end up with what we have: unprecedented numbers of unwed mothers, millions of abortions, rampant STDs, and the unraveling of the fabric of our whole society. Josh didn’t sin because he was repressed, he sinned because like all of us he is a sinner."

 

[snip]

Edited May 24, 2015 by Rhondinella
posted outside comment

[Rhondinella]

Let's please not post comments that come from other message boards here to discuss them, or else your mods will never get any sleep (or, more importantly, get to watch GoT live tonight). If you want to respond to something from another site, respond there, not here. Thanks.

[autumnh]

And yet another horrifying response from another Quiverfull believer...

 

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/mom-of-gun-toting-quiverfull-family-14-year-old-josh-duggar-was-playing-doctor-so-leave-him-alone/

 

[LilyoftheValley]

The fact that Josh referred to this as "temptation" years after he supposedly repented, is a huge red flag to me that he never understood what exactly it was that he did wrong.  I mean, "temptation" is a normal thing that everyone deals with day in and day out; pedophilia isn't.  The fact that he has conflated the two is horribly distressing to me, and a sign that he never got help and that he still has the same urges.  

 

If he very brazenly molested his own sisters, then I am not confident that this all ended a few years ago.  He cockiness, which was once just annoying, is suddenly extremely terrifying.  

I read just about all I could stand from Michael Seewald. This paragraph in particular almost 'broke my brain' as you say.

 

"There are others that see this episode as a result of sheltering and repressing human desires. They think that had he access to sex education by Planned Parenthood, been allowed to watch edgy Hollywood films, been encouraged to experimentation with a girlfriend, or gotten free condoms from the local school nurse, then none of this would have happened. Right. The stupidity of some people is mind boggling. Fan the flames of youthful lust and you end up with what we have: unprecedented numbers of unwed mothers, millions of abortions, rampant STDs, and the unraveling of the fabric of our whole society. Josh didn’t sin because he was repressed, he sinned because like all of us he is a sinner."

 

[snip]

She has this all backwards.  I do not think that access to planned parenthood and condoms prevents sexual abuse.  What I do not buy for one second is that their fundie beliefs and lifestyle prevent all of this from happening, which is what they claim.  They are very clear that if everyone in the world believed and lived like them, then women and men both would be virgins until marriage and then only have sex with their spouse until one of them dies.  

 

My question to this woman is this: if none of your beliefs or lifestyle choices make any difference whatsoever in your children's sexual morality, then what's the point?  You might as well then just let them have mainstream lives. 

[Almost 3000]

Was it his own bedroom? I thought it was a work room - he was into movie editing etc then and it had his equipment in it, but I don't remember a bed?

I thought there was only a studio for the boys too but there is a large closet on the plans. If you look up Duggar Floor Plan, Kodiak Steele Homes (pdf) comes up. They have the plans. Both the girls and boys rooms have a long storage room along the back wall. I think those are what we saw when M&JB and Josie were looking for the crib for Mbaby. The girls has a sewing room and the boys has a studio. Both have two baths with tubs and the girls have that extra hair/make-up area outside their baths that if I remember correctly has extra sinks. The girls room has no closet but the boys has a large closet on the side that seems to have head room that could have a bed in it. Opposite that is I'm assuming the slide to the first floor because its not marked.

[Pasha Kitty]

How was this brought to the public's attention (two days ago)?  I don't know who/what cracked this open.  I mean, Josh didn't just reveal this himself, right?  Would somebody please let me know the chain of events?  Thanks.

[NextIteration]

And yet another horrifying response from another Quiverfull believer...

 

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/mom-of-gun-toting-quiverfull-family-14-year-old-josh-duggar-was-playing-doctor-so-leave-him-alone/

 

Oh for fook's sake, 3-6 yr olds play doctor, not 14 year old adolescents.  Aren't theses people buybull thumpers?  Don't they know that real men had families at 14 in the damn buybull?

[leighdear]

 

I think they got the marriage license in Arkansas, but had the ceremony in Florida.

Good point if the marriage was registered in Arkansas.  I honestly think it's a rhetorical question at this point.  She's shackled to him for life.  And I really don't think she deserves so much shit.  She's a good mom & a nice gal, just naive and a bit stupid.  

[EarlGreyTea]

Wow, PEOPLE magazine is actually reporting about the Duggars in a negative light (I say that because it is usually sparkles and rainbows when they feature them). I think the Duggar shiny facade is not so shiny anymore. I doubt we'll see more featured articles.

 

http://www.people.com/article/online-commenter-warned-josh-duggar-molestation

 

Pretty shrewd of PEOPLE.  As nauseating  and overwrought as their Duggar coverage was before, they seemed to realize quickly that this would hurt their bottom line and seemed to have cut the Duggars loose. I glanced at the comments and they're scathing. PEOPLE seems to realize public opinion has turned against the Duggars, for the most part (not some fundies' opinions, but PEOPLE has always aimed itself toward the mainstream, who seem much more horrified by all this). TLC should take note.

 

And although I know this negative coverage is probably more about money and hits, I'm really glad PEOPLE is not shying away from reporting on the story.

 

Strange to think the Duggars are still drawing in the readers and website visits for PEOPLE - but for completely different, despicable reasons.

Edited May 24, 2015 by EarlGreyTea

[Chalby]

 other large family that refused to film with them a few months back. 

Even if Josh's guilt wasn't an issue, I don't think the Willis' would bother with the Duggars. The Willis family loves to dance, and we know what the Duggar's feel about that. As well, the Willis family isn't as uptight with their courtship rules. I never could understand Josh and Anna's no kiss rule while dating. I have found that no matter how attracted you are to another, the proof is in the kiss. Hasn't anyone else found that after a kiss, you view the other person differently? The kiss can make or break a relationship.

[autumnh]

Even if Josh's guilt wasn't an issue, I don't think the Willis' would bother with the Duggars. The Willis family loves to dance, and we know what the Duggar's feel about that. As well, the Willis family isn't as uptight with their courtship rules. I never could understand Josh and Anna's no kiss rule while dating. I have found that no matter how attracted you are to another, the proof is in the kiss. Hasn't anyone else found that after a kiss, you view the other person differently? The kiss can make or break a relationship.

 

Agreed. I am not saying you need have sex with someone...but a kiss? Absolutely.  I don't care what a persons religion is....within a marriage there has to be some sexual desire...and well? Holding hands cannot forge that kind of connection. 

 

You know what always bothers me? JB always side hugs his daughters...which leads me to believe...does frontal hugging his daughters give him impure thoughts?

 

Ahh..he is such a creeper.

[HumblePi]

I thought there was only a studio for the boys too but there is a large closet on the plans. If you look up Duggar Floor Plan, Kodiak Steele Homes (pdf) comes up. They have the plans. Both the girls and boys rooms have a long storage room along the back wall. I think those are what we saw when M&JB and Josie were looking for the crib for Mbaby. The girls has a sewing room and the boys has a studio. Both have two baths with tubs and the girls have that extra hair/make-up area outside their baths that if I remember correctly has extra sinks. The girls room has no closet but the boys has a large closet on the side that seems to have head room that could have a bed in it. Opposite that is I'm assuming the slide to the first floor because its not marked.

I had read that the molestation took place in the communal bedroom of the girls. Which to me, is even worse than the molestation taking place in a closet or in a computer room or ANYWHERE else in that house. The little ones were there in their own twin beds during these incidents. I had read one article that made light of the whole thing by saying that "he touched her breasts and vaginal area and all the while the girl was reading a book."  Holy shit, how could anyone try to make it sound as though the girl was bored and not alarmed or scared?  If any one of the girls was 'reading a book' while being sexually molested by her older brother, it was probably the Bible and she was asking for forgiveness for causing him to lust and do that to her. That's the way this cult thinks.

[autumnh]

I had read that the molestation took place in the communal bedroom of the girls. Which to me, is even worse than the molestation taking place in a closet or in a computer room or ANYWHERE else in that house. The little ones were there in their own twin beds during these incidents. I had read one article that made light of the whole thing by saying that "he touched her breasts and vaginal area and all the while the girl was reading a book."  Holy shit, how could anyone try to make it sound as though the girl was bored and not alarmed or scared?  If any one of the girls was 'reading a book' while being sexually molested by her older brother, it was probably the Bible and she was asking for forgiveness for causing him to lust and do that to her. That's the way this cult thinks.

 

 

Yes...this.

 

They were babies...under 11 years old. How can parents even make excuses? I have no doubt that the Duggar girls who were sexually assaulted were made to feel it was their fault...even at under 11 years old...

 

I can hear it now..."How dare you go through puberty and tempt your brother!"

 

Just so much UGH.

Edited May 25, 2015 by autumnh

[Chalby]

This story is the tip of a very large, very ugly iceberg methinks. 

 

I worry about Anna and her blind faith in Josh. I don't know how many of you watched episodes where Anna was always alluding to wanting to be pregnant again, and I got the feeling that Josh wasn't as accommodating in that area, which was fine by me. Anna is a good mom, seems a decent enough wife, however, whenever she becomes pregnant it only serves to remind me that she is willingly intimate with Josh. That baby train needs to come to an end, now. Anne needs to educate herself and accept any and all offers that allow her to escape. She and the children should not be punished for the sins of the father.

[Mrsjumbo]

JMHO , but I bet someone at TLC is deleting interoffice emails re: the Duggars, esp. after finding out that the Oprah show refused to interview them in 2006. I think TLC knew exactly the rumors but chose to push it under the rug because RATINGS!

Some reporter is going to be doing a jailhouse interview with the child porn cop. A stripper will come forward with a story about Josh (though I find that story hard to believe. Fayetteville is not big- city; you can't go anywhere without running into someone you know & I don't think even Josh was stupid enough to risk it).

This story still makes me sick to my stomach but I think it will be in the news for awhile as new details come out.

[TaxNerd]

I had read that the molestation took place in the communal bedroom of the girls.

I think it was the old house.

I wonder how Anna is dealing with the pregnancy. As of last Wed. she had a birthing center, a midwife and a life in DC. How is she going to deliver now? A homebirth with Jill attending? My guess is it may be just her and Josh delivering at home, with little support.

This will also be her first birth that won't be filmed for TLC and won't be publicly celebrated.

Edited May 25, 2015 by TaxNerd

[Sew Sumi]

The molestation happened at the old Johnson Rd. home. They didn't move into the TTH until early 2006, years after the incidents in question occurred. 

[Mrsjumbo]

Josh I don't give 2 hoots for but I do worry about all this stress on Anna during her pregnancy.