Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, Suzn said:

I almost feel sorry for Jessa if she thinks she is imparting knowledge to her poor dumb fans.  Just how stupid would someone have to be to find this "information" on hosting to be new and unheard of?

I expect I'm one of the few who thinks this. But to me this seems like more evidence of the thing I always yammer on about -- that some people, the Duggarlings included, are deliberately raised to be hermits and to isolate themselves from others. And when you're like that, literally every kind of minor nothing of an event in most social interactions that others take for granted are unusual and remarkable and strange to you. And you have to learn how to participate in them and even when you sort of do many everyday things continue to feel strange.

I know people will chime in and say they're sure the Duggars are out and about with others far more than we see and that they always have been, etc. And that there are group photos of various Duggarlings with many friends. And the people who say that may well be right.

But from my personal experience with this kind of thing, in people raised to be isolated and stay isolated,this complete ignorance and naivete that Jessa is showing about things most people find too basic for words is absolutely typical. When I left my home, I had absolutely no idea how to partake in the social interactions that most other people find old hat at age four. And I'm still massively socially crippled and I remain a hermit in numerous ways after decades of living and working in situations with tons of people. 

And I also know that nobody I know who hasn't had a very similar experience has ever had a clue what I'm talking about. They simply don't believe me. 

I truly think that Jessa does not realize that she's explaining things that other people find incredibly, laughably basic and unremarkable. 

(The difference between me and Jessa is that I knew early on how much of a stranger in a strange land I was, so I didn't give tutorials about how that land worked. She does (as do her relatives).)

Edited January 14, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Barb23]

3 hours ago, heckkitty said:

OMG. Ivy is all of us. Thanks for the reminder that I can watch shit like this with no sound  very helpful!

Captions for Ivy's expression:

"I have HOW many cousins?"

OR

"Oh no, I shouldn't have had the beans for dinner."

[madpsych78]

Who isn't a prop though. I agree that Felicity appears to be the biggest prop, but of the others who are more active on social media, I'd argue that all of their kids are props to some degree.

[JoanArc]

 If we fired a space probe into Jessa’s house, it would report back that the atmosphere is completely inhospitable human life. I would imagine the only reason they’re having people over is to try to convert them. God knows Ben and Jessa are not appear anymore cultured or developed any more than when they were first married.  I agree with Churchy’s assessment; People that do nothing but eat vanilla ice cream would likely rave if they got a bite of chocolate.

 

 I also agree with the other comments, Felicity will be trained to metaphorically sing a dance on command once she’s old enough. It’s exploitation all the way down. 

Edited January 14, 2020 by JoanArc

[Natalie68]

20 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Who isn't a prop though. I agree that Felicity appears to be the biggest prop, but of the others who are more active on social media, I'd argue that all of their kids are props to some degree.

Because that is all they have.  They don't have fascinating careers, hobbies, cooking skills, but they can pump out cute kids.  Even some of the original recipe Duggars were cute.  Until puberty hit the boys.  Then poof, they are middle aged men with receding hairlines at 12.

[crazy8s]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I expect I'm one of the few who thinks this. But to me this seems like more evidence of the thing I always yammer on about -- that some people, the Duggarlings included, are deliberately raised to be hermits and to isolate themselves from others. And when you're like that, literally every kind of minor nothing of an event in most social interactions that others take for granted are unusual and remarkable and strange to you. And you have to learn how to participate in them and even when you sort of do many everyday things continue to feel strange.

I know people will chime in and say they're sure the Duggars are out and about with others far more than we see and that they always have been, etc. And that there are group photos of various Duggarlings with many friends. And the people who say that may well be right.

But from my personal experience with this kind of thing, in people raised to be isolated and stay isolated,this complete ignorance and naivete that Jessa is showing about things most people find too basic for words is absolutely typical. When I left my home, I had absolutely no idea how to partake in the social interactions that most other people find old hat at age four. And I'm still massively socially crippled and I remain a hermit in numerous ways after decades of living and working in situations with tons of people. 

And I also know that nobody I know who hasn't had a very similar experience has ever had a clue what I'm talking about. They simply don't believe me. 

I truly think that Jessa does not realize that she's explaining things that other people find incredibly, laughably basic and unremarkable. 

The "we just learned/know this new thing and need to educate y'all" is apparent with the Bates' also.

Most often with Nathan in his rambling talking heads. He truly tried to educate people once on "the tradition they have" of smash cakes for a baby's first bday. He was so smug and arrogant about it, so sure he was enlightening the world about this great thing. He had no idea most everyone does this for a baby's first bday.

Edited January 14, 2020 by crazy8s

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

I truly think that Jessa does not realize that she's explaining things that other people find incredibly, laughably basic and unremarkable. 

Which is part two of my question about the instructional videos and postings that the girls produce.  I would expect that someone producing "educational" material to have had training, in depth study or research or a least lengthy experience in whatever field they claim expertise or at a minimum, competency.  But we have Jessa, Jana, Jill and Jinger demonstrating cooking, baking, decorating, hair cutting, parenting and my favorite, sex advice from Jill.  How is it possible that they put themselves forward as experts? In anything?

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

Which is part two of my question about the instructional videos and postings that the girls produce.  I would expect that someone producing "educational" material to have had training, in depth study or research or a least lengthy experience in whatever field they claim expertise or at a minimum, competency.  But we have Jessa, Jana, Jill and Jinger demonstrating cooking, baking, decorating, hair cutting, parenting and my favorite, sex advice from Jill.  How is it possible that they put themselves forward as experts? In anything?

I think Gothard's teachings are a big part of it, bolstered in the Duggarlings' case by what I think is the apparently natural and overbrimming arrogance of both their parents. (you know -- I mowed the grass in a bathing suit and a man I'd never met sought a divorce because he was struck with love of me!)

ATI/IBLP promised that faithful followers of its teachings who eschewed instruction and influence from any other quarter would be rewarded with superiority and achievement beyond their dreams, including worldly achievement. 

A lot of ex-Gothardites eventually saw through that and recognized it as horse hockey.

But a huge family like the Duggs was able to build its own echo chamber and received what they believed were the promised rewards in the form of acclaim, fame and money from Gothard's groups, other conservative-Christian groups and even government officials here and there who did stuff like declare Meeechelle mother of the year, and of course from TLC and the tv-viewing public who then became their online "followers" numbering in the millions.

And so they believed -- and, I think, still believe, for the most part -- that these promises were valid and have, indeed, rewarded the truly good and faithful and superior -- i.e., them. They have much to teach us, they think. 

Here's one press account that points to the kind of stuff that Gothard and company have blown hard about:

'Gothard enticed followers with promises that his teachings would lead to great knowledge and achievement. ATI, Gothard has written, “was designed to train up world changers,” the heart of a grandiose vision that many former followers say intrigued them—at first. Gothard actively discouraged his followers from attending public school, college, or even medical school, instead urging them to address medical issues on a “spiritual level.” The Wisdom Booklets are a dizzying application of Gothard’s “principles” to every conceivable discipline—law, medicine, history, linguistics, math, science—all instilling the fundamental belief that one must discern and follow God’s will, not the dictates of the secular world, in every aspect of life, right down to, say, choosing a toothbrush. “As we commit the work of buying a toothbrush to Him,” one Wisdom Book advises, “He has promised to make His will known to us.”

'The Wisdom Booklets were also designed to give ATI families a sense of godly superiority. The very first one, for example, suggests a family outing to a supermarket parking lot in order to “to develop the spiritual skill of ‘seeing’ people as Jesus saw them.” The booklet gives examples of how when one carefully observes strangers, one can perceive, for example, that a teenage boy had “low esteem of himself by the way he dressed and by his appearance,” or that his eyes and dress display “a spirit of rebellion toward authority.” Or one could discern “that the young woman walking toward the store has the attire of an immoral woman,” and that she needed “to overcome bitterness toward those who have wronged her.”'

 https://talkingpointsmemo.com/theslice/duggars-bill-gothard-iblp

There are many first-person stories about these things out there. I remember one, for example, about how Gothard promised teenagers in Gothard families that if they followed all the Gothard-y rules, wore the khaki pants and so on, their superiority and worth would shine forth to the extent that they might one day board an airplane looking all Gothardy and find that some highly influential person on the plane would see their shininess from a seat elsewhere and come to offer them some kind of big-time job that was beyond their wildest dreams. 

I'm pretty sure JB and M sell their kids on the idea that their lives are living out that dream -- and this group of isolated, kept-in-darkness-and-ignorance morons believe it's true because they don't actually know about anything beyond their own noses.....And JB convinces them of things like Jed! being some kind of successful politician and leader of men! 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Churchhoney

[kokapetl]

21 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Jessa wants to be more hospitable. There's a video I didn't watch. 😁

 

More Jessa level tips:

 

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

I think Gothard's teachings are a big part of it, bolstered in the Duggarlings' case by what I think is the apparently natural and overbrimming arrogance of both their parents. (you know -- I mowed the grass in a bathing suit and a man I'd never met sought a divorce because he was struck with love of me!)

ATI/IBLP promised that faithful followers of its teachings who eschewed instruction and influence from any other quarter would be rewarded with superiority and achievement beyond their dreams, including worldly achievement. 

A lot of ex-Gothardites eventually saw through that and recognized it as horse hockey.

But a huge family like the Duggs was able to build its own echo chamber and received what they believed were the promised rewards in the form of acclaim, fame and money from Gothard's groups, other conservative-Christian groups and even government officials here and there who did stuff like declare Meeechelle mother of the year, and of course from TLC and the tv-viewing public who then became their online "followers" numbering in the millions.

And so they believed -- and, I think, still believe, for the most part -- that these promises were valid and have, indeed, rewarded the truly good and faithful and superior -- i.e., them. They have much to teach us, they think. 

Here's one press account that points to the kind of stuff that Gothard and company have blown hard about:

'Gothard enticed followers with promises that his teachings would lead to great knowledge and achievement. ATI, Gothard has written, “was designed to train up world changers,” the heart of a grandiose vision that many former followers say intrigued them—at first. Gothard actively discouraged his followers from attending public school, college, or even medical school, instead urging them to address medical issues on a “spiritual level.” The Wisdom Booklets are a dizzying application of Gothard’s “principles” to every conceivable discipline—law, medicine, history, linguistics, math, science—all instilling the fundamental belief that one must discern and follow God’s will, not the dictates of the secular world, in every aspect of life, right down to, say, choosing a toothbrush. “As we commit the work of buying a toothbrush to Him,” one Wisdom Book advises, “He has promised to make His will known to us.”

'The Wisdom Booklets were also designed to give ATI families a sense of godly superiority. The very first one, for example, suggests a family outing to a supermarket parking lot in order to “to develop the spiritual skill of ‘seeing’ people as Jesus saw them.” The booklet gives examples of how when one carefully observes strangers, one can perceive, for example, that a teenage boy had “low esteem of himself by the way he dressed and by his appearance,” or that his eyes and dress display “a spirit of rebellion toward authority.” Or one could discern “that the young woman walking toward the store has the attire of an immoral woman,” and that she needed “to overcome bitterness toward those who have wronged her.”'

 https://talkingpointsmemo.com/theslice/duggars-bill-gothard-iblp

There are many first-person stories about these things out there. I remember one, for example, about how Gothard promised teenagers in Gothard families that if they followed all the Gothard-y rules, wore the khaki pants and so on, their superiority and worth would shine forth to the extent that they might one day board an airplane looking all Gothardy and find that some highly influential person on the plane would see their shining from a seat in another and come up and offer them some kind of big-time job that was beyond their wildest dreams. 

I'm pretty sure JB and M sell their kids on the idea that their lives are living out that dream -- and this group of isolated, kept-in-darkness-and-ignorance morons believe it's true because they don't actually know about anything beyond their own noses.....And JB convinces them of things like Jed! being some kind of successful politician and leader of men! 

Well, that's just frightening!  I'd never seen that aspect of Gothardism detailed before.  That is far beyond simple arrogance, it's all the way to fully delusional.

It is truly sad that such ignorant people believe themselves to be wise and superior.

[JoanArc]

7 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Well, that's just frightening!  I'd never seen that aspect of Gothardism detailed before.  That is far beyond simple arrogance, it's all the way to fully delusional.

It is truly sad that such ignorant people believe themselves to be wise and superior.

 I mean, being a meek servant of Christ hardly put any butts in the seats. 

[farmgal4]

3 hours ago, Tasya said:

I just wanted to add that IMO Jessa's videos are worse than Jinger's pictures. Taking a picture however staged and/or posting videos of them engaged in some random activity (Jinger) is less invasive/exploitative than having your kids: sing on cue, read on cue, answer questions on cue...etc. Jessa has her kids actively performing for the camera. Maybe Jinger and Jeremy will eventually get there when Felicity is older, but right now J&B have J&J beat. 

Why does it matter if she has the children in her videos?  They’re a part of the show, so what’s the difference?

[GeeGolly]

I'd say Jessa doesn't even hide the fact that her kids are props.

 

[Churchhoney]

20 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Well, that's just frightening!  I'd never seen that aspect of Gothardism detailed before.  That is far beyond simple arrogance, it's all the way to fully delusional.

It is truly sad that such ignorant people believe themselves to be wise and superior.

The reality-tv producers' motto: Feeding the delusions of the already delusional is a dangerous business, and we're all in! 

Choose your own examples. 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Churchhoney

[farmgal4]

28 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Well, that's just frightening!  I'd never seen that aspect of Gothardism detailed before.  That is far beyond simple arrogance, it's all the way to fully delusional.

It is truly sad that such ignorant people believe themselves to be wise and superior.

I hope hell has an extra-hot fiery room waiting for Bill Gothard.  He’s a sick, twisted SOB.

[DangerousMinds]

21 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

Why does it matter if she has the children in her videos?  They’re a part of the show, so what’s the difference?

It’s simply a fact that she is exploiting them.

[Churchhoney]

21 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'd say Jessa doesn't even hide the fact that her kids are props.

 

She was a prop. And brought up in the greatest family in the world. So, more props, please! What could go wrong?! 

Can't help but think there's a crash coming for somebody down the line. 

Hope that's not true, for the sake of these cuties and their little cuzzes, too.

[JoanArc]

4 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I hope hell has an extra-hot fiery room waiting for Bill Gothard.  He’s a sick, twisted SOB.

  I’m hoping he goes through a lot of handkerchiefs wiping the sweat of his brow. Of course they will need to be laundered, but luckily Michelle will be working in the celestial laundry room for all of eternity, what with her servants heart and all, so of course he will never run out of clean linen.

 God is awfully clumsy, and frequently drops his wallet in the septic tank. But don’t worry, Jim Bob and Josh are both handy around the house so they will spend eternity helping him fish it out. 

[GeeGolly]

We all have things we don't know, because we don't know. For most of us we realize this through exposure to other families, friends, co-workers, travel, books, movies, etc.

I remember when I was 10 or 11, I had a friend who was from CA. When it was very hot in the summer she and her brothers pulled out the newspaper and looked up what movies were playing, just automatically. It felt rather brillant to me, back in the day when few homes were air conditioned. But my family (and those in my tiny town) being New Englanders, when it was hot out, we thought pools, sprinklers and beaches, not movies.

The Duggars are sheltered to begin with and then were taught the majority of the world is wrong and scary. They don't go out into society to explore learn and absorb. They whisk through it to get home to safety.

Combine that with their self-righteous mindset, they're doomed to remain stagnant.

[lascuba]

5 hours ago, Suzn said:

Which is part two of my question about the instructional videos and postings that the girls produce.  I would expect that someone producing "educational" material to have had training, in depth study or research or a least lengthy experience in whatever field they claim expertise or at a minimum, competency.  But we have Jessa, Jana, Jill and Jinger demonstrating cooking, baking, decorating, hair cutting, parenting and my favorite, sex advice from Jill.  How is it possible that they put themselves forward as experts? In anything?

In addition to their upbringing and all the Gothard stuff and the the whole conceit of having been part of a "ministry" since childhood, I wonder how much of it is just..."normal" social media stuff. And by that I mean:

Even if they stick to Christian (or Christian-friendly secular) sites, they're still exposed to a lot on social media and they're well-aware that people have made bank from blogging/youtube/instagram/etc--though, as with everything else with these people (looking at you, Jeremy the Foodie), they're super late to that party.

They have an audience that likes them no matter what, so it's a no-brainer to capitalize on that by trying to carve niches for themselves in various social media outlets. Jana and Jinger are aiming for aspirational instagram influencer, Jill is into unglamorous mommy blogging, and Jessa is going with the instructional videos of various topics she thinks might strike. One of their main problems is that, while they know what's popular (or what was popular at least 2 years ago), their attempts to emulate just look like the sad, try-hard copies they are, both because of their isolated upbringing and because none of them have the charm or creativity to pull it off. I don't follow any particular bloggers/influences, really, but I notice that when something becomes popular, people jump to copy with various degrees of success, and many of them make it obvious they're copying without really getting the nuances of why it became so popular in the first place (this happens with fiction, too. There's always a glut of copycats when something becomes hugely popular.) Jessa's mountain of diapers is the perfect example. She could see that moms being "real" about their imperfections appealed to a lot of people, so she tried to do the same thing, not realizing that pile of dirty diapers just sitting there because their diaper genie was broken(???) is not the same thing as toys scattered all over the floor. 

Her current videos are a slight improvement, but, like you said, it's absurd for her to pretend to be an expert on anything. Her best bet would be to be semi-open about the fact that she doesn't know shit and make her videos more about what she's learning. But that would require her to tacitly admit that her upbringing was lacking in...everything except sheer numbers of people. 

 

[queenanne]

6 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

'Gothard enticed followers with promises that his teachings would lead to great knowledge and achievement. ATI, Gothard has written, “was designed to train up world changers,” the heart of a grandiose vision that many former followers say intrigued them—at first. Gothard actively discouraged his followers from attending public school, college, or even medical school, instead urging them to address medical issues on a “spiritual level.” The Wisdom Booklets are a dizzying application of Gothard’s “principles” to every conceivable discipline—law, medicine, history, linguistics, math, science—all instilling the fundamental belief that one must discern and follow God’s will, not the dictates of the secular world, in every aspect of life, right down to, say, choosing a toothbrush. “As we commit the work of buying a toothbrush to Him,” one Wisdom Book advises, “He has promised to make His will known to us.”

'The Wisdom Booklets were also designed to give ATI families a sense of godly superiority. The very first one, for example, suggests a family outing to a supermarket parking lot in order to “to develop the spiritual skill of ‘seeing’ people as Jesus saw them.” The booklet gives examples of how when one carefully observes strangers, one can perceive, for example, that a teenage boy had “low esteem of himself by the way he dressed and by his appearance,” or that his eyes and dress display “a spirit of rebellion toward authority.” Or one could discern “that the young woman walking toward the store has the attire of an immoral woman,” and that she needed “to overcome bitterness toward those who have wronged her.”'

 https://talkingpointsmemo.com/theslice/duggars-bill-gothard-iblp

There are many first-person stories about these things out there. I remember one, for example, about how Gothard promised teenagers in Gothard families that if they followed all the Gothard-y rules, wore the khaki pants and so on, their superiority and worth would shine forth to the extent that they might one day board an airplane looking all Gothardy and find that some highly influential person on the plane would see their shininess from a seat elsewhere and come to offer them some kind of big-time job that was beyond their wildest dreams. 

I'm still busy trying to understand... what did they think would lead to their big-time jobs?  Probably because it seems kind of counterintuitive, to both point out that the value system of the ebil world gives gifts to individuals with college educations, and that everything is based on this "false system of idols"... it doesn't matter what they think of college educations; the fact remains, this is how the world works.  You can't simultaneously acknowledge the systems of the world as status-quo; and then say that simply looking more wholesome and Pleasantville than everyone else will qualify you for things better than the world doles out by following its acknowledged paths to success.  At the very, very least, it seems the goal should be to go out and infiltrate the existing colleges and universities; or at least to aspire to creating Liberty University or Bob Jones U. yourselves.  

[galaxychaser]

What Jess video I will find entertaining? Her cleaning the house. And recommend what air freshener she uses to mask the smell of the diaper mountain.

[Zella]

19 minutes ago, queenanne said:

I'm still busy trying to understand... what did they think would lead to their big-time jobs?  Probably because it seems kind of counterintuitive, to both point out that the value system of the ebil world gives gifts to individuals with college educations, and that everything is based on this "false system of idols"... it doesn't matter what they think of college educations; the fact remains, this is how the world works.  You can't simultaneously acknowledge the systems of the world as status-quo; and then say that simply looking more wholesome and Pleasantville than everyone else will qualify you for things better than the world doles out by following its acknowledged paths to success.  At the very, very least, it seems the goal should be to go out and infiltrate the existing colleges and universities; or at least to aspire to creating Liberty University or Bob Jones U. yourselves.  

I've known people with similar views, though I don't believe they were Gothard accolytes. The parents had college degrees from real universities, but they were highly opposed to any of their children going to college after they were homeschooled. Even conservative Christian colleges were a hard no.

Almost all 5 of their 9 children I knew who were adults (3 daughters and 2 sons) had jobs arranged for them by Mommy and Daddy, and they were all horribly ignorant and ill-formed. This family (I've talked about them before on here) were also highly distrustful of doctors and anyone else who was educated. They seemed to resent me having a master's degree and some coursework in educational pedagogy when we got on the topic of teaching/homeschool curriculum.

I think what it boiled down to is that they were very insecure. I suspect they'd been called out in some ways about their own ignorance in the past and rather than accepting that or trying to learn, they just doubled down and isolated themselves from anyone who could be an "expert."

And because they didn't want to be outed to their children as morons, it was easier to keep them away from any source that could be a counterbalance to their own views/teachings. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

There are usually underlying reasons folks buy into wild theories and promises, the first one being is because they want to. They want to believe what they're being told is true because it appeals to them.

Other reasons are feeling lost, unsupported or maybe disillusioned. Also, maybe suffering from a loss or experiencing a traumatic event.

Add in the fact that so much of life is open to interpretation, it makes sense that folks can get sucked into bizarre and sometimes scary beliefs and communities. 

If you look at being rich as a measure of success, many folks who are rich did not attend or finish college, or did not become wealthy using their degree. However, many folks who are rich did attend college and did use their degree to gain wealth. Right now, the Duggars, whether we like it or not, are financially successful.

If we look at Jessa. Jessa is very defensive. Defensive folks don't often really listen, because they're too busy calculating their defense. So when she reads opinions on SM, she gets busy thinking why they're wrong and never really pauses to wonder if there's any truth to the posts. Jessa needs to believe in her family culture, because it's her family culture and because right now she benefits from it.

Edited January 15, 2020 by GeeGolly

[lascuba]

I think another factor is that these people really do plan on taking over the world through sheer numbers. That's what quiverfull comes down to. So they all figure that eventually there will be enough of them in high enough positions that their kind will automatically be promoted to those positions without the education or experience necessary. 

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, queenanne said:

I'm still busy trying to understand... what did they think would lead to their big-time jobs?  Probably because it seems kind of counterintuitive, to both point out that the value system of the ebil world gives gifts to individuals with college educations, and that everything is based on this "false system of idols"... it doesn't matter what they think of college educations; the fact remains, this is how the world works.  You can't simultaneously acknowledge the systems of the world as status-quo; and then say that simply looking more wholesome and Pleasantville than everyone else will qualify you for things better than the world doles out by following its acknowledged paths to success.  At the very, very least, it seems the goal should be to go out and infiltrate the existing colleges and universities; or at least to aspire to creating Liberty University or Bob Jones U. yourselves.  

The Gothard stuff seems to have told them that the way the world works (with the mainstream educations and so on) is so wrong that, when outsiders eventually met people who'd been educated the right way -- the way of Gothard's Jesus and the Gothard "Wisdom" -- they would recognize the superiority of the Gothard-led learners and spontaneously raise them up to high positions. 

I mean, there's a lot more to the Gothard stuff than just looking wholesome. There's all that crap in the Wisdom Books and many other documents.  It's insane ((in addition to being stupid...) but also insanely detailed, blathering all-knowingly on just about every conceivable topic and declaring that it can be put into the heads of kids from age 5 or so onward, with glorious effects.

But somehow Gothard convinced a lot of people, at least temporarily, that it's actually all highly meaningful and capable of turning them into world-beaters to the max..............I expect that's what Jed! has been told by Pa to prepare him for his life in public office.......

Again, kinda similar to Scientology in methods and effects when it comes to their relationship to the outside world, I think. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Fig Newton]

Dear Jessa,

Please invite me over this year for Passover, Rosh Hashanah, and Yom Kippur.

Only then will I believe you know jack shit about hospitality.

P.S I will recite the 4 questsions. Hebrew and English.

[Magoo]

I feel alone, but I actually like Jessa’s  videos. Having read the various Duggar threads since the TWOP days, and over the years reading people’s first-hand accounts of being raised similarly (hi Churchy - I’ve learned the most from your thoughtful and truly educational posts) I’m watching them with her horrifyingly stunted upbringing in mind. That she’s trying, however awkwardly, to stretch out even a little, makes me happy for her. She has a nice conversational tone, and says more than once she’s not an expert and that others know far more than she does. I’m not watching with any expectation that I would learn anything, but feel glad that SHE seems to be learning. From my perspective she’s not making these videos for “us.” She’s nowhere near that secular, but she’s trying something and that’s...something. 

[mynextmistake]

On 1/13/2020 at 7:44 PM, Zella said:

I am not irreligious and am not much of a drinker, but there is not enough damn alcohol in the world to get me through a dinner with anyone, but especially Jessa, in which this is an actual ice breaker. 

 

“I met him at the laundromat. He asked me whether he should use fabric softener or dryer sheets. You?”

[MichaelaRae]

It's interesting to me...I have issues with Jessa in that I think she spent a good part of her life being happy being "the mean girl" who bosses around anyone more passive than her in her circle (Stories about her childhood and what she got away with let alone what we saw on the show bears this out, IMO.) But I can also see from what we have seen on the show - particularly in Counting On and how uncomfortable she is outside of her circle and knowing what her childhood was like, including but not limited to the absolute shit show of how she was "parented" (and I use THAT term LOOSELY) and how her emotional security was sacrificed to protecting her abusive older brother - how much of that behavior, like many (though not all) bullies, is based in profound insecurity and the resulting need to control whatever they can (some survivors of abuse internalize control and others might externalize it). And while I can look at the latest Jessa social media presence - more curated, etc. - compared to a couple of years ago with dirty diaper piles on the dressers and roll my eyes in the "yup, somebody got some SM coaching," I can also appreciate that she's far more NATURAL at it than her sisters (Jill is almost TOO natural, bless her clueless heart, but she's growing!) and I can appreciate that she is basically saying "I am not good at being open with new people and I made it something to work on" (whether she actually DOES or not, she's saying it's something she's not good at and says she's trying to work on, which is more than I feel like she's done before). 

So yeah. But if she never says "this season of life" again, I'd be super cool with that.

[BitterApple]

9 hours ago, Magoo said:

I feel alone, but I actually like Jessa’s  videos. Having read the various Duggar threads since the TWOP days, and over the years reading people’s first-hand accounts of being raised similarly (hi Churchy - I’ve learned the most from your thoughtful and truly educational posts) I’m watching them with her horrifyingly stunted upbringing in mind. That she’s trying, however awkwardly, to stretch out even a little, makes me happy for her. She has a nice conversational tone, and says more than once she’s not an expert and that others know far more than she does. I’m not watching with any expectation that I would learn anything, but feel glad that SHE seems to be learning. From my perspective she’s not making these videos for “us.” She’s nowhere near that secular, but she’s trying something and that’s...something. 

One thing I will say positively about Jessa is she speaks very well and sticks to the point. There's nothing more annoying than YouTubers who drone on and on, repeating themselves endlessly and going off on unrelated tangents. If she worked at it, she could do well in that medium. 

[lascuba]

14 hours ago, Magoo said:

I feel alone, but I actually like Jessa’s  videos. Having read the various Duggar threads since the TWOP days, and over the years reading people’s first-hand accounts of being raised similarly (hi Churchy - I’ve learned the most from your thoughtful and truly educational posts) I’m watching them with her horrifyingly stunted upbringing in mind. That she’s trying, however awkwardly, to stretch out even a little, makes me happy for her. She has a nice conversational tone, and says more than once she’s not an expert and that others know far more than she does. I’m not watching with any expectation that I would learn anything, but feel glad that SHE seems to be learning. From my perspective she’s not making these videos for “us.” She’s nowhere near that secular, but she’s trying something and that’s...something. 

If I'm ranking the Duggars' social media accounts, I'd go with Jessa's being the best, because I dislike perky and her direct style of speaking appeals to me.  I dislike giving any of the Duggar kids points for seeming to "learn" things different from their upbringing, because that way lies ignoring or justifying really shitty beliefs, but I agree that she does seem to be branching out a bit.

[ouinason]

I like Jessa's videos too.  They seem realistic and I like that she lets her kids do whatever, even while she's filming.  Spurgie asking a question and her actually stopping to answer him and not getting upset about it interrupting her gets her points with me.  Yes, she could have cut that part out, but why should she?

Also, even very well behaved children will, and do, protest being on camera if it bothers them, and we haven't seen anything like that with her kids.  

I don't hold the same beliefs that the Duggars and their extended clan do, and I think some are pretty awful, but she's not pushing a belief system on her videos. She doesn't talk about ANYTHING controversial, so I'm fine with them.  I can disagree with her and still be interested and entertained.

I don't agree with a lot of the stuff that I see on "I am Jazz" or when I watched "Jon and Kate" or ... well most reality families say, do, and think things that I don't care for, but I still want to see it.

[DangerousMinds]

I personally find Jessa so smug and repellent that I would never even watch one of her videos (and cute kids are a dime a doze, yawn) but I know mileage varies.

[MichaelaRae]

Quote

 I dislike giving any of the Duggar kids points for seeming to "learn" things different from their upbringing, because that way lies ignoring or justifying really shitty beliefs, but I agree that she does seem to be branching out a bit.

Me too. Except also if someone is genuinely learning differently than their upbringing (not saying Jessa is - in fact, I have seen no reason to not continue to believe that she’s invested in the shitty because a) she’s a true believer b) she knows where the paycheck (JimBoob and MEchelle) comes from or more likely c) a combination of both), I will never NOT believe someone can overcome the ignorance they were raised in to become a better person. 

Also, I should clarify that while I have empathy for the way Jessa “Blessa” acts because of the shit show of her upbringing and find this (mildly) intro-aware behavior of hers compelling and sympathetic on some levels, I still find her professed beliefs LOATHSOME and would be hard pressed not to take her to (not the Duggar Dining Room Table) school if I ever met her in person. There would be LESSONS. 😂

Edited January 17, 2020 by MichaelaRae

[DangerousMinds]

4 hours ago, ouinason said:

I like Jessa's videos too.  They seem realistic and I like that she lets her kids do whatever, even while she's filming.  Spurgie asking a question and her actually stopping to answer him and not getting upset about it interrupting her gets her points with me.  Yes, she could have cut that part out, but why should she?

Also, even very well behaved children will, and do, protest being on camera if it bothers them, and we haven't seen anything like that with her kids.  

I don't hold the same beliefs that the Duggars and their extended clan do, and I think some are pretty awful, but she's not pushing a belief system on her videos. She doesn't talk about ANYTHING controversial, so I'm fine with them.  I can disagree with her and still be interested and entertained.

I don't agree with a lot of the stuff that I see on "I am Jazz" or when I watched "Jon and Kate" or ... well most reality families say, do, and think things that I don't care for, but I still want to see it.

One of the big differences I see here are that neither Jazz nor Jon and Kate are/were actively trying to take rights away from others, and using their shows as a platform for that.

[GeeGolly]

19 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I personally find Jessa so smug and repellent that I would never even watch one of her videos (and cute kids are a dime a doze, yawn) but I know mileage varies.

I agree. While I believe Jessa is clueless about many mainstream things, I also think everything she does is calculated.

To be clear I don't think she is purposeful in looking clueless, she just is.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree. While I believe Jessa is clueless about many mainstream things, I also think everything she does is calculated.

To be clear I don't think she is purposeful in looking clueless, she just is.

She truly doesn’t understand what a hillbilly bumpkin she really is 🤣🤣🤣.

[Growsonwalls]

I like Jessa's videos. I think Jessa's videos are something for her to do. She doesn't seem to be obnoxiously fishing for gifts or donations. Her video of the chaotic TTH Christmas was actually sort of entertaining -- it certainly gave a different view of what a Duggar Christmas is really like than what TLC would show. 

[lookeyloo]

9 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I like Jessa's videos. I think Jessa's videos are something for her to do. She doesn't seem to be obnoxiously fishing for gifts or donations. Her video of the chaotic TTH Christmas was actually sort of entertaining -- it certainly gave a different view of what a Duggar Christmas is really like than what TLC would show. 

Her video however or if it was edited, was a more "normal" look at goings on at TTH, in my opinion.  What we see on the TLC show is heavily edited, scripted, many "takes", etc.  Not real.  Scripted reality.   I did watch one of hers.   If were a young mother cruising YouTube for ideas, her videos might pique my interest.  But, I am not, and I know her hideous beliefs, so there's that.

[JAYJAY1979]

I'm thinking Jessa's video wasnt intended for secular viewers but fellow Christians coming out from under the fundie thumb. 

My dad was raised in a similar way except he dated (no courtship rules)..and married my mom who wasn't raised like this.  He had trouble making decisions as simple as ordering from a menu, etc.  He still is like this when after many years outside of that realm.

Maybe that's why we have Foodie pics with Jinger..so she can decide what she likes and doesn't like?

[Zella]

1 hour ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

 

Maybe that's why we have Foodie pics with Jinger..so she can decide what she likes and doesn't like?

I'd be more likely to buy that if it wasn't so obviously all about what Jeremy likes and is interested in. I think Jinger's interest is negligible, and I doubt he cares all that much, especially when he has his bromance pals that seem to be as equally invested in pretentious eating as he is.

[JoanArc]

2 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Maybe that's why we have Foodie pics with Jinger..so she can decide what she likes and doesn't like?

Given it was recently revealed that Jeremy orders for her, I don’t think she’s really putting a lot of agency into her food choices.

[JAYJAY1979]

24 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Given it was recently revealed that Jeremy orders for her, I don’t think she’s really putting a lot of agency into her food choices.

Well sometimes my mom would order for my dad cause he couldn't decide what he liked..or he would forget if he liked it or not.

I'm wondering if that applies to Jinger..she always seemed sweet yet lacking in decision making..while Jessa seemed head strong yet impulsive.  Both those girls are examples of long term effects of not being raised to make choices or decisions for themselves 

[crazy8s]

8 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

 

I'm wondering if that applies to Jinger..she always seemed sweet yet lacking in decision making..while Jessa seemed head strong yet impulsive.  Both those girls are examples of long term effects of not being raised to make choices or decisions for themselves 

Same with Jill who can't figure out what to do when alone for an hour or when her headship has a long day at school.

[Madtown]

 

[madpsych78]

Ben reads books to kids 1,000 x better than Derick. 

[dargosmydaddy]

Ivy's bug eyes are endlessly amusing...

[JustRosie]

2 hours ago, Madtown said:

 

Jessa has beautiful kids. 

[Sew Sumi]

New Jessa video. This time, it's kids' clothes.