Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[Sew Sumi]

I think you're being too kind. I think his scope does include racism, but under a far narrower umbrella than white privilege, a concept I doubt he's familiar with. He's calling out white CHRISTIANS as feeling superior to other Christians, but I have a feeling there's still a lot of exclusion built into his remarks. He's strongly Calvinistic; I suspect he doesn't have much use for liberal Christians. 

[ginger90]

We haven't seen Grandma much. Ben and Jessa made their announcement and the first thing we hear Grandma say is asking if Ben and Jessa are going to move.

[NewDigs]

12 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

More words of wis-dumb from Benny Boy. I would lend more credence to his statement if I knew he referred to ALL Christians and not just his APPROVED ones. 

Bin's really going the fire and brimstone route.

Weep! Demands! Repent!

The flesh points a finger?

I can practically see him thumping the pulpit. Well, maybe just a couple of little taps.

I'm going to have to buy a Spurgeon book next time I see one in a thrift store.

[riverblue22]

I'm surprised in a good way to see him talking about empathy.  Walking a mile in another shoes is not an idea I've seen expressed by any Duggar.  In fact, I thought concepts like that had somehow disappeared from Duggar bibles.

[Jynnan tonnix]

13 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

Wonder who Benny Boy is voting for this November. 

My thoughts exactly...I wonder whether this was aimed at Trump. Not to get into  politics, but I thought for sure it was going to be a deal-breaker for the Christian contingent when he said he didn't repent of anything,

[sometimesy]

Lord Bin.

"It makes me want to weep. I see so much quick judgement" "the flesh points a finger" He didn't practice this in a mirror did he.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, sometimesy said:

Lord Bin.

"It makes me want to weep. I see so much quick judgement" "the flesh points a finger" He didn't practice this in a mirror did he.

Something tells me he practices everything in a mirror. This is one way in which he and Jessa are extremely well matched. (unless they don't have enough mirrors in the house, I guess)

[GeeGolly]

But Ben doesn't find racism and white privilege among non-believers appalling?

[BradandJanet]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

But Ben doesn't find racism and white privilege among non-believers appalling?

No. That kind of critical thinking is beyond Bin. That's why he's Duggaring up so well. 

[Micks Picks]

Please, no more digs age white people or Trump.

[riverblue22]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

But Ben doesn't find racism and white privilege among non-believers appalling?

Well, it's to be expected from non-believers, dontcha know?  But he expects better from his crowd and appears to be disappointed.  Maybe he has seen his homeboy Flame experience racism from Christian believers, and reality is just now sinking in.  There may be a glimmer of hope for Bin yet.

[laurakaye]

18 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

More words of wis-dumb from Benny Boy. I would lend more credence to his statement if I knew he referred to ALL Christians and not just his APPROVED ones. 

"It's," Bin.  When you misspell the first word, I don't read for content - I read for more misspellings.

[Sew Sumi]

Haha! I totally missed that as I tried to comprehend his Spurgeonesque word salad. 

I agree: who talks like that anymore? I'm assuming this was possibly the intro of a sermon he had as an assignment for school. 

[lascuba]

Babies holding their own bottles is a problem now? Good grief. 

And fuck you, Ben, and your performative allyship. As soon as you outgrow your sheltered white boy fetishisation of hip hop you'll go right back to agreeing with every other racist fundie you align yourself with. When you start voting for liberal candidates--and publicly state that you are--I might chose to believe that you're not as vile as your family and in-laws. 

[Vaysh]

I'm so conflicted about this IG post. There are so very many things wrong with it, and yet I can't help but feel proud of poor Bin for realising that White Conservative Christians aren't the perfect examples of Christlike behaviour (y'all know no Duggar would ever reach this point, ever).  It's like, he's so dumb. And was brought up so sheltered. And supremely fucked up. And yet... somewhere inside of that hot mess there is a kind and decent person trying to get out. There appears to be some questioning going on in his mind. And I am desperately hoping this development will continue and that it won't be squashed by the Duggar Hive Mind.

[Sew Sumi]

Well said, but I think that BEN thinks he's at the point where he can lecture other Christians about their walks with Christ, so he's ironically displaying superiority to his flock. while outwardly preaching equality. Some of Ben's biggest challenges with this excerpt exist in his own family. Just think about Jill and Derick, who DEFINITELY feel superior to the Brown people they are trying to convert. The rest of his inlaws? They are so deep in their cult bubble that they really don't even care, other than the occasional tract drop or that time when Smuggar was a street preacher on a milk crate in front of the White House (that was my avatar on FJ forever).

Edited October 24, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[sometimesy]

Quick judgement and little empathy, yep pretty much sums up the Duggs existence. Just like us! hehe

Moar Godman.

Edited October 24, 2016 by sometimesy

[Zella]

Goody Godman! 

(Yes, I know it's supposed to be a title for women, but it was always my favorite thing about Hawthorne stories about Puritans, so I've felt the need to apply it to all fundamentalists. :) ) 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Zella

[Sew Sumi]

English major here. Any references to Hawthorne and his most beloved topic are welcomed! Thinking about it, probably reading The Scarlet Letter in high school right around the time my parents flipped their lids and changed their religion (to Dutch Reformed) probably didn't hurt me in questioning everything that I knew about religion at what, 14? 

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

English major here. Any references to Hawthorne and his most beloved topic are welcomed! Thinking about it, probably reading The Scarlet Letter in high school right around the time my parents flipped their lids and changed their religion (to Dutch Reformed) probably didn't hurt me in questioning everything that I knew about religion at what, 14? 

Yay! I was an English major too! :)

I read The Scarlet Letter and The Crucible around the same time when I was in my teens, and both of them had a major impact on me. 

Just realized that in a continuance of the Hawthorne theme, Goodman Godman has potential, too, though I think Goody Godman is still my favorite. 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Zella

[Sew Sumi]

Young Goodman Brown! Bring on the Puritans! 

[Arwen Evenstar]

9 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Young Goodman Brown! Bring on the Puritans! 

Let's not forget the poster who referred to Anna as "Goody Smuggar"! I will love him/her forever for that!

[maraleia]

If Ben had actually moved up here to Chicago to attend classes at Moody Bible Institute (which is down the street form me- blech) with Jessa and Spud then I would believe his instagram pronouncements about race. He needs to actually live in a multi-cultural environment before spouting off online.

[DangerousMinds]

Also, I don't think Bin has ever worked with truly underprivileged children. Those who attended "his" football camp were certainly not. He needs to move to a real city and see how he copes.

[Zella]

55 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Let's not forget the poster who referred to Anna as "Goody Smuggar"! I will love him/her forever for that!

Yes, I had forgotten about that, but it cracked me up every time I saw it! 

[BitterApple]

48 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Also, I don't think Bin has ever worked with truly underprivileged children. Those who attended "his" football camp were certainly not. He needs to move to a real city and see how he copes.

I agree. Those were regular run-of-the-mill Suburban kids who just happened to be black. I think it's great that Bin is taking baby steps outside the Duggar Bubble of Ignorance, but he's still fairly clueless about the the struggles of the underclass. I will give him credit for being open to new things, unlike the Duggars who sneered at ebil, Christian rap music.

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, maraleia said:

If Ben had actually moved up here to Chicago to attend classes at Moody Bible Institute (which is down the street form me- blech) with Jessa and Spud then I would believe his instagram pronouncements about race. He needs to actually live in a multi-cultural environment before spouting off online.

Ben is partaking in Moody's online program, so unless he has live classes (which I doubt), it appears that his only exposure to minorities are Flame and his wife. Flame certainly WAS underprivileged at one time, but he's not now, so I don't think he really counts. 

I don't even think there were many (if any) African American kids at the football camp. It looked like White Suburbia to me. I am pretty sure there were more African American coaches there than kids. 

[Missy Vixen]

IMHO of course, but I was shocked (and a teeny bit encouraged) to see Bin's comments. The first crack in my fundie armor (once upon a time) was meeting and working with LGBTQ people at my former workplace. They befriended me. They answered what must have been my stupid and offensive questions. They helped me realize that the things I had been taught were not only wrong, they were hateful. I remain stunned by their generosity and kindness.

I am hoping that Bin's friend Flame is filling him in. I realize that is a big burden to place on another person, but I'd like to think that underneath the fire-and-brimstone absolutism that characterizes Bin's opinions, he has the capacity to listen to someone whose life experiences have been vastly different and learn from those differences. I also hope that Bin has the courage to face down what I can imagine will be a quick and crushing effort by both father-in-law and his own dad to dissuade him.

Even more than money, this will be where the rubber meets the road: Will Bin turn away from the opportunity to see a different world than he's been taught to embrace for the almighty buck? We've already seen his BIL Triple D embrace the party line in the past two weeks.

[sometimesy]

1 hour ago, Missy Vixen said:

IMHO of course, but I was shocked (and a teeny bit encouraged) to see Bin's comments. The first crack in my fundie armor (once upon a time) was meeting and working with LGBTQ people at my former workplace. They befriended me. They answered what must have been my stupid and offensive questions. They helped me realize that the things I had been taught were not only wrong, they were hateful. I remain stunned by their generosity and kindness.

I am hoping that Bin's friend Flame is filling him in. I realize that is a big burden to place on another person, but I'd like to think that underneath the fire-and-brimstone absolutism that characterizes Bin's opinions, he has the capacity to listen to someone whose life experiences have been vastly different and learn from those differences. I also hope that Bin has the courage to face down what I can imagine will be a quick and crushing effort by both father-in-law and his own dad to dissuade him.

Even more than money, this will be where the rubber meets the road: Will Bin turn away from the opportunity to see a different world than he's been taught to embrace for the almighty buck? We've already seen his BIL Triple D embrace the party line in the past two weeks.

Awww, you believe his motives are selfless. Here is what I hear from weepy fleshy fingers, "I'm not racist and you are na na na boo boo."

[Marigold]

22 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Well said, but I think that BEN thinks he's at the point where he can lecture other Christians about their walks with Christ, so he's ironically displaying superiority to his flock. while outwardly preaching equality. Some of Ben's biggest challenges with this excerpt exist in his own family. Just think about Jill and Derick, who DEFINITELY feel superior to the Brown people they are trying to convert. The rest of his inlaws? They are so deep in their cult bubble that they really don't even care, other than the occasional tract drop or that time when Smuggar was a street preacher on a milk crate in front of the White House (that was my avatar on FJ forever).

I cringed when i read his post. It's really poorly worded and it's clear he was trying to sound so educated. 

Ben is also really young, sheltered and uneducated. I don't think he is in any position to be lecturing anyone.  I got the "holier than thou" vibe from the post. Very preachy for a 20 year old who just made an African American friend. I guess he is an expert at race relations now? 

On the other hand, at least he is attempting to think something through...this is positive. 

[lascuba]

I don't want Ben to work with underprivileged people at all...he'll go into it just like Derrick and Jill do, thinking he has something of value to offer when he has zero knowledge or experience.  Enough with the godforsaken poverty tourism that does nothing but make privileged imbeciles think they're good people.  I don't know what the solution is, but putting him in a position of authority is not the way to go about any positive change. At the very least, to start, he needs to stop with the Bible study and get a real education...the kind that makes Texas textbook writers froth at the mouth. 

[Vaysh]

Quote

Ben is also really young, sheltered and uneducated. I don't think he is in any position to be lecturing anyone.  I got the "holier than thou" vibe from the post. Very preachy for a 20 year old who just made an African American friend. I guess he is an expert at race relations now?

To be fair, isn't this how most 20-year olds are? I'm pretty sure a lot of the things that came out of my mouth in my early twenties came across as both arrogant and oblivious despite being well-meaning. We are passionate at that age but also ignorant; everything about the adult world is new and it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that just because something is news to ourselves it has to be news to everyone else. And I can imagine that being brought up sheltered like Bin probably exacerbates the issue. Bin does seem to have a genuine interest in learning though, so I'm hoping this is just a phase he's going through and that like most 20-year olds he'll grow out of it.

[Marigold]

27 minutes ago, Vaysh said:

To be fair, isn't this how most 20-year olds are? I'm pretty sure a lot of the things that came out of my mouth in my early twenties came across as both arrogant and oblivious despite being well-meaning. We are passionate at that age but also ignorant; everything about the adult world is new and it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that just because something is news to ourselves it has to be news to everyone else. And I can imagine that being brought up sheltered like Bin probably exacerbates the issue. Bin does seem to have a genuine interest in learning though, so I'm hoping this is just a phase he's going through and that like most 20-year olds he'll grow out of it.

Yeah, 20 year olds tend to be all excited about whatever thoughts they have and not realize that it's really not news to anyone else. 

Ben needs to lay off the social media when he is having all these revelations! Maybe just keep a private journal. 

Considering Ben wants to be a minister...he really should thoroughly think about what exactly he is saying and if things sound right/not offensive.  Especially when dealing with race, religion and politics.   If Ben were blabbing about amazing family ideas such as taking a walk with your child (ha!), I would just crack up because it's just a 20 year old being a 20 year old!  Ben is in some serious subject matter...he is in over his head. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

I don't want Ben to work with underprivileged people at all...he'll go into it just like Derrick and Jill do, thinking he has something of value to offer when he has zero knowledge or experience. 

The thing is, though, if they don't have experiences like this, I don't see how they have any chance of finding out the truth about these things.

I'm of two minds about it, but I don't really see how Bin would actually hurt anybody (other than exposing folks to his cluelessness -- but what underprivileged person hasn't already been exposed to great galumphing tons of that?). I don't think anybody would actually put him in charge of anything -- he'd just be helping out, so how much harm could he really do?

And I don't see any way for these uneducated and insular people to have any shot at seeing reality unless they, you know, get out of their own crowd and go see reality. It won't necessarily work, of course, but nothing else has even a ghost of a chance, as far as I can see. Honestly, I haven't given up on the Dillards getting a clue at some point, either, especially Derick, who isn't so paralyzed by fear of the unknown. People do change their spots on these matters. And it very seldom happens quickly. Happens over years, mostly. But if you don't leave the compound -- and you're part of a group of people who don't read books except for your Magic 8 Ball Bible -- it'll probably never happen.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Malvina]

[Barb23]

Wow, Spurge gets to play with METAL spoons!!  

[lulu69]

I wonder if Jessa takes the batteries out of Spurge's toys like JB did - can't have babies & small children "moving their bodies in that way".

[DangerousMinds]

8 hours ago, Malvina said:

Leaving the "g" off words, using the word "like?" She sure is hip and cool. And sounds ridiculous IMO.

[lascuba]

9 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

The thing is, though, if they don't have experiences like this, I don't see how they have any chance of finding out the truth about these things.

I'm of two minds about it, but I don't really see how Bin would actually hurt anybody (other than exposing folks to his cluelessness -- but what underprivileged person hasn't already been exposed to great galumphing tons of that?). I don't think anybody would actually put him in charge of anything -- he'd just be helping out, so how much harm could he really do?

And I don't see any way for these uneducated and insular people to have any shot at seeing reality unless they, you know, get out of their own crowd and go see reality. It won't necessarily work, of course, but nothing else has even a ghost of a chance, as far as I can see. Honestly, I haven't given up on the Dillards getting a clue at some point, either, especially Derick, who isn't so paralyzed by fear of the unknown. People do change their spots on these matters. And it very seldom happens quickly. Happens over years, mostly. But if you don't leave the compound -- and you're part of a group of people who don't read books except for your Magic 8 Ball Bible -- it'll probably never happen.

I don't think there's any hope of change if you go into something arrogantly sure that you're of service to people who need your "expertise," which is where Ben, Derrick, and Jill are coming from. They need to be humbled if there's any hope of redemption for them, and even if Ben isn't put in charge of anything, a job "helping" underprivileged people is automatically a position of authority, and it's right in his comfort zone.  That's a problem. If anything is going to help these people change, it's actual real world experiences and interacting with people on an equal basis. Enough with catering to their missionary mindset and superiority complex. They need real non-religious educations where professors and fellow students routinely let them know that they don't know a damn thing. They need real jobs that forces them to interact with all sorts of people who are in a position to disagree with them and openly dislike them for their hostile beliefs. None of the things any of the Duggars are doing now provides that, no matter how superficially "open-minded" it might look.

[momofsquid]

When the Spurge looks up at the camera he looks just like his mom, which is a relief because I usually see Uncle Perv. I just want to grab him and send him to school and give him a normal healthy life. So much potential there. I hate to think that it could be stifled.

[lookeyloo]

Spurgie is really cute.  His life is about to change in a big way, poor thing.

[Marigold]

I do think that out of all off the Duggars,  Ben has the best chance at actually maturing and becoming well rounded.

I see no hope for Jill or Derick. Derick initially looked good but I have decided that Derick is a nut.  Nuts generally don't mature or grow because they are...nuts! He will continue in his nutty little world, post selfies and toss around some Spanish words...feeling good about himself and his hard word, completely unaware that he is really doing nothing. 

I think Ben actually has a brain in there and I don't get a crazy vibe from him. He is awkward and uneducated right now but I see glimmers of light with Ben. 

If Ben went out and did some work with people who need support, I think he might actually learn something.  It seems like the lights are slowly coming on for him.  

My money is on Ben & Jessa for the Duggar couple who might have some original thoughts. 

I also find Ben obnoxious and preachy but I'm trying to think positively.  ;)

Edited October 25, 2016 by Marigold

[DangerousMinds]

At least Derrick was willing and able to move far far away from the TTH. Right now, I can't picture Bin doing that.

When has Jessa truly had any original thoughts?

[Catlyn]

On 10/21/2016 at 3:00 PM, lianau said:

On 10/16/2016 at 10:32 PM, Malvina said:

I have two really big sexist pet peeves and one of them is shown here . I hate pink on boys and men , the other is long hair on them . WTF Jessa !!

Pink was originally a boy color. In Victorian times and maybe earlier, it was thought to be too strong a color for a girl. Blue was a softer color so more suited to a sweet girl.  ;)  He's still a baby, so Jess is probably keeping the hair long because of the curls.

 

I broke down and read the blog. It was as bad as you said. I thought maybe you all were getting a bit too snippy to match the fall weather, but no. My apologies. It really wouldn't have been so bad if it were just a talk about enjoying a family walk. Ben turned it into a lecture as if he were the only one who knew about the greatness of walks. I mean, WOW a little extra planning and we can turn that walk into a picnic! Who knew?  He needs to have someone else read his blog back to him aloud. Maybe he'd get a clue how patronizing he sounds.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Catlyn
To apologize for doubting my fellow posters regarding Ben's Blog.

[Minivanessa]

17 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I do think that out of all off the Duggars,  Ben has the best chance at actually maturing and becoming well rounded.

I see no hope for Jill or Derick. Derick initially looked good but I have decided that Derick is a nut.  Nuts generally don't mature or grow because they are...nuts! He will continue in his nutty little world, post selfies and toss around some Spanish words...feeling good about himself and his hard word, completely unaware that he is really doing nothing. 

I think Ben actually has a brain in there and I don't get a crazy vibe from him. He is awkward and uneducated right now but I see glimmers of light with Ben. 

If Ben went out and did some work with people who need support, I think he might actually learn something.  It seems like the lights are slowly coming on for him.  

My money is on Ben & Jessa for the Duggar couple who might have some original thoughts. 

I also find Ben obnoxious and preachy but I'm trying to think positively.  ;)

Thoughtful comments, @Marigold. I think they're all obnoxious and somewhat nuts, but somehow young Bin has managed to find connections outside the Duggar compound. We've seen some of that on the show - Flame and Jeremy. I'm not sure who linked up with the football camp people, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Ben.

When he first popped up on the Duggar map, we knew that as a teen (he was, what - 17 or 18?), Ben had acted on his attraction to Jessa and hauled himself and his parents to Duggar church services to meet her. No doubt he benefited from the lack of interest in the Duggar daughters by suitable would-be suitors - i.e., no competition. But as a barely legal adult, he landed a Duggar wife and I think it was the one he wanted. 

He's still really young and poorly educated and so full of himself and sure he's right about Life and God and Everything. But, yes, there are reasons to not dismiss him as someone who'll never get past that as he matures. 

Given his youth and lack of wealth, vs. his very controlling father-in-law who clearly intends to establish a multi-generational Duggar compound, it's no surprise he and Jessa haven't moved away from there. They may never move away. But if Ben keeps up the networking he's been doing they could end up carving out their own life, one that doesn't have every detail dictated by KJB and Xanaxia.

[Marigold]

8 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

At least Derrick was willing and able to move far far away from the TTH. Right now, I can't picture Bin doing that.

When has Jessa truly had any original thoughts?

Well, you gotta squint and look closely but...she has some books in her home, she has posted a few recipes that were not frozen and covered in goo crap, we saw a post with organic milk and their most recent post of taking a family walk, even wearing board shorts for boating rather than those Duggar bathing suits...

To us, this is obvious stuff.  To Jessa?  She thinks she is spliting the atom. 

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, lascuba said:

I don't think there's any hope of change if you go into something arrogantly sure that you're of service to people who need your "expertise," which is where Ben, Derrick, and Jill are coming from. They need to be humbled if there's any hope of redemption for them, and even if Ben isn't put in charge of anything, a job "helping" underprivileged people is automatically a position of authority, and it's right in his comfort zone.  That's a problem. If anything is going to help these people change, it's actual real world experiences and interacting with people on an equal basis. Enough with catering to their missionary mindset and superiority complex. They need real non-religious educations where professors and fellow students routinely let them know that they don't know a damn thing. They need real jobs that forces them to interact with all sorts of people who are in a position to disagree with them and openly dislike them for their hostile beliefs. None of the things any of the Duggars are doing now provides that, no matter how superficially "open-minded" it might look.

Yeah, you're absolutely right about this. My feeling, though, is that they're never going to get this.

As I said, I'm definitely of two minds about this. But since I just don't see them -- ever -- getting the kind of detached-from-the-cult learning you rightly recommend, I'd rather see them get some knowledge of the world in any way possible rather than get no exposure at all.

I've seen at least a few people with this kind of noblesse oblige mindset get their eyes gradually opened as they did things they considered "charity." Sometimes unanticipated things happen that demonstrate that other people are real, just like the noblesse obligers, and that the noblesse obligers aren't so great as they imagine they are. And then people can and do change, sometimes.

I guess my bottom line is that I don't really think the Duggars' stupid "mission" and "charity" crap is actually harming the people they supposedly "serve," any more than it helps them. Since I think the recipients of their "service" most likely just roll their eyes at their stupidity and take the free cookies. And since I think that's true -- and I don't know for sure that it is; maybe I'm wrong about its being generally harmless -- I think I'm okay with their doing some of it since I do believe that it's the only possible way they'll ever really get out among actual people to see what the world is like.

I admit that I don't want to completely buy your thinking because if I did then I'd see Bin's and the others' futures as 100 percent hopeless! Since I don't think there's the slightest chance that they'll ever move right into the real world in the way you describe. .... And since they're young, and all of this really isn't their fault but mostly the fault of the culture they're born into, I balk at thinking there's no hope for them at all. (but maybe there isn't, of course.)

Edited October 25, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Aja]

Late to the party, but re: Bin's "empathy" post; I'd like to know if he feels the same about the LGBT community.

[Churchhoney]

41 minutes ago, Catlyn said:

It really wouldn't have been so bad if it were just a talk about enjoying a family walk. Ben turned it into a lecture as if he were the only one who knew about the greatness of walks. I mean, WOW a little extra planning and we can turn that walk into a picnic! Who knew?  He needs to have someone else read his blog back to him aloud. Maybe he'd get a clue how patronizing he sounds.

I suppose he figures he's practicing preaching. (For his future megachurch or TeeVee pulpit. Not.) So I guess it's a good thing that he's kinda doing homework. But a bad thing that this is the kind of homework he does. I just want to hit him upside the head and drag him away from the Duggars. Of course by now he's got two and a half Duggars firmly attached. So I guess that ship has sailed.

[Churchhoney]

6 minutes ago, Aja said:

Late to the party, but re: Bin's "empathy" post; I'd like to know if he feels the same about the LGBT community.

I would, too. (and I'm afraid I know the answer)

But I do think that it's really not fair of us to expect people to go from 0 to 60 in a second. They're going to go from 0 to 2 and then stall out and then maybe from 0 to 10. And then stall out again. Nobody changes everything in one go.

Just the fact that Bin has at least enough empathy in there somewhere to see that somebody who isn't just like him is getting an unfair deal makes it at least possible that, at some point, he'll be able to extend that empathy to everybody who deserves it.