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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

Chris Knight

By Chris Knight
in Counting On

Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45

The Duggars post about politics on social media frequently, but these social media posts are not an invitation to discuss politics here in this forum. This rule extends to Duggar adjacent families, friends, associates etc. Such discussions are a violation of the Politics Policy. 

I understand with recent current events there may be a desire to discuss certain social media postings of those in the Duggar realm as they relate to politics- this is not the place for those discussions. If you believe someone has violated forum rules, report them, do not respond or engage.

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Defrauder

Defrauder

To analyze Ben for a moment I think he is playing dumb for JimBob's grace knowing that JB is threatened by anyone who appears smarter than him.  I also think that Ben is much less into Gothard and centers on his own belief in Spurgeon which is not the usual Duggar way.  Also - when you look at Ben's FB page you see things like Ben proclaiming that Christianity is NOT about homeschooling or dressing modestly- something the Duggars definitely wouldn't put out there.  I have hope for Ben breaking Duggar if nothing else.The name Spurgeon surely came from him and although not the wisest of decisions perhaps I doubt JB was consulted  first.  Ben looks so not thrilled with the whole TV camera that I think is his way of passively protesting the whole charade.   Ben reminds me of an imprisoned and unwilling storm trooper (Star Wars) under the ruler ship of Supreme Leader JB.  I think he will eventually break free of Duggar with Jessa in tow.  JB probably senses this and doesn't want him to earn any independent money and discourages Ben from obtaining outside employment just like he does with the rest of his family.  But Ben is only 20 yet and seems so sick of it all already.

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Lady Edith
Lady Edith

Imho if you are pro-life, BE PRO LIFE.  That is, be pro every STAGE of life, not just in utero.  Why doesn’t pro life include teens?  Elders?  Suppprt QUALITY public education for all of our children.

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Arwen Evenstar

Dammit, I wish they'd all stop spreading misinformation about abortion.  Most women who seek abortion don't do it at the stage of that ultrasound image Dustbin posted unless there are severe abnormali

IntoTheMystic
IntoTheMystic

I went on a couple of those ATI approved 'Journey to the Heart' brainwashings back in the day when I was a teenager. I think they might have been called something different. I don't really remember. M

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Absolom

Absolom

I questioned the calculating of Jill's labor and now Jessa's, too.  They seemed to count Jill's labor beginning with her water breaking and who knows what they used for Jessa.  She was indeed out to lunch in a restaurant the day before she had the baby with zero sign of being in labor.  Now in addition to Duggar time we have Duggar labor calculation which may be to double the actual the time or more.  Jessa used the same untrained fake midwife that Anna used and that could explain a lot of the issues.

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Lemur

Lemur

I questioned the calculating of Jill's labor and now Jessa's, too.  They seemed to count Jill's labor beginning with her water breaking and who knows what they used for Jessa.  She was indeed out to lunch in a restaurant the day before she had the baby with zero sign of being in labor.  Now in addition to Duggar time we have Duggar labor calculation which may be to double the actual the time or more.  Jessa used the same untrained fake midwife that Anna used and that could explain a lot of the issues.

 

You forgot Duggar Gestational Math, and the great "Jubilee was miscarried, no we mean she was stillborn" debate.

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barbedwire

barbedwire

Do they really expect us to buy that?  I didn't watch (thank you to all of you who took one for the team and watched that crap fest) but Jessa in labor for 48 hours when there is a post of her going out to eat?  Did labor stop for an hour or two and they aren't counting those hours?  Duggar math indeed.

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DangerousMinds

DangerousMinds

To analyze Ben for a moment I think he is playing dumb for JimBob's grace knowing that JB is threatened by anyone who appears smarter than him.  I also think that Ben is much less into Gothard and centers on his own belief in Spurgeon which is not the usual Duggar way.  Also - when you look at Ben's FB page you see things like Ben proclaiming that Christianity is NOT about homeschooling or dressing modestly- something the Duggars definitely wouldn't put out there.  I have hope for Ben breaking Duggar if nothing else.The name Spurgeon surely came from him and although not the wisest of decisions perhaps I doubt JB was consulted  first.  Ben looks so not thrilled with the whole TV camera that I think is his way of passively protesting the whole charade.   Ben reminds me of an imprisoned and unwilling storm trooper (Star Wars) under the ruler ship of Supreme Leader JB.  I think he will eventually break free of Duggar with Jessa in tow.  JB probably senses this and doesn't want him to earn any independent money and discourages Ben from obtaining outside employment just like he does with the rest of his family.  But Ben is only 20 yet and seems so sick of it all already.

AFAIK, neither Bin or Derick were ever followers of Gothard.

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Zahdii

Zahdii

Often labor turns into a competition.  "My labor was longer than yours."  "I lost more blood than you."  "I, or my baby, was closer to death than you."

 

After the baby is born parents start comparing Apgar scores.  Birth weight.  How quickly Mom lost the baby weight, weather they needed an episiotmy or not, how fast the new parents resumed sex.

 

Let's not forget the most horrific birth stories ("I had to deliver a 20 lb baby after being in labor for 20 days.  On the way to the hospital, we were trapped in a wrecked car under an overpass that was about to collapse.  Traffic was backed up in both directions so there was no medical help available for at least 10 miles.  Everyone else ran away, and there was toxic waste leaking from a damaged semi on top of the overpass.  I managed to gnaw the leather off the seats to shield myself from the toxic spill and delivered the baby while chanting Gregorian chants.  I then freed myself and ran for help.  The EMS was too freaked out to help, so when my baby stopped breathing I did AR on my own.  On the way to the hospital, I hummed classical music to help my baby's brain development and then after getting to the hospital I instructed the staff on the art of baby massage.  My kid's going to have an IQ of at least 300, and thanks to my stellar genes will be increadibly handsome/beautiful.  I'm pretty sure that if the toxic waste exposure comes into play my baby will be telepathic, or the first human to use The Force.  Anyone want to top that?"

 

I think that animals have it right.  They bear their young, feed them, nurture them, protect them, and then teach them how to survive.

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Meliskee1

Meliskee1

Okay, I'm not one to defend a Duggar, but it IS possible to go out to eat when in labor. With my noob I felt my first contractions at 2:00 a.m., went to the hospital around 8:00 a.m., got sent home for not progressing at 11:30, met a friend for lunch, got home around 1:30, decided to take a nap, felt like I'd been hit by a truck, took a bath, felt like I was about to die, husband forced me to go back to the hospital. Arrived back at hospital at 3:30, baby born at 4:37. But I had been dilated to 6cm for 8 weeks by this time, and on strict bedrest until that very day. My lunch with my friend was my "yay I'm 36 weeks and finally off bedrest!" celebration. It worked. I'm just saying, sometimes women in labor DO make dumbass decisions to go out to eat.

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JoanArc

JoanArc

 

"I had to deliver a 20 lb baby after being in labor for 20 days.  On the way to the hospital, we were trapped in a wrecked car under an overpass that was about to collapse.  Traffic was backed up in both directions so there was no medical help available for at least 10 miles.  Everyone else ran away, and there was toxic waste leaking from a damaged semi on top of the overpass.  I managed to gnaw the leather off the seats to shield myself from the toxic spill and delivered the baby while chanting Gregorian chants.  I then freed myself and ran for help.  The EMS was too freaked out to help, so when my baby stopped breathing I did AR on my own.  On the way to the hospital, I hummed classical music to help my baby's brain development and then after getting to the hospital I instructed the staff on the art of baby massage.  My kid's going to have an IQ of at least 300, and thanks to my stellar genes will be increadibly handsome/beautiful.  I'm pretty sure that if the toxic waste exposure comes into play my baby will be telepathic, or the first human to use The Force.  Anyone want to top that?"

Wanderwoman's back!

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SomePity1066

SomePity1066

Often labor turns into a competition.  "My labor was longer than yours."  "I lost more blood than you."  "I, or my baby, was closer to death than you."

 

After the baby is born parents start comparing Apgar scores.  Birth weight.  How quickly Mom lost the baby weight, weather they needed an episiotmy or not, how fast the new parents resumed sex.

I think it's so sad, weird, counterintuitive, and plain old mean for people to engage in this kind of petty, passive-aggressive one-upmanship when it comes to labor and delivery. I'm not surprised that Jessa and Jill have been driven to the kind of competition where the "winner" gets to claim that they had the "Bestest Birth EVER !!!" when they have a self-styled fertility goddess for a mother !!!

 

I just don't get it - what benefit is there in their suffering ? Why did it become their favored currency in the commerce that is childbirth ? Why did Jill, and now Jessa, think that taking themselves to the very brink of disaster for both themselves and their unborn children was somehow... I don't know, ennobling ?!

 

Their thinking is just off-the-charts illogical. They are part of a family/cult that prizes babies, babies, and more babies above ALL else, yet they risk the lives and health of those very same babies for... what ? The chance to say they labored longer ? That they complained less of the pain ? That they "stuck it out" for longer before, inevitably, turning to the real medical professionals ? It's like they're competing in the Crazy Birthing Danger Olympics, and they want the Gold !!!

 

It's like Jessa said "Look, y'all - I can be even MORE stupid than Jill when I give birth ! I win !!!"

 

These are people who have the full boat when it comes to having their wisdom teeth out, as we've seen more times than I care to remember, with fully accredited medical professionals attending to them, proper anesthetic, and pain medication, but when giving birth to the most treasured commodity in their lives they decide to go solo and just "wing it" at home until it's almost too late ?!?!  

 

Full disclosure - not a mother here - having awesome stepchildren and doggies are much more my speed, thank you very much, so my notions about labor, delivery, etc, may be colored by my lack of experience in that area, but I don't have to have been struck by lightning to know that watching someone else get struck by lightning would, uh... suck. Pain is pain, and I'm not impressed or "inspired" by Jessa's (or Jill's !) terrible, ill-informed, ridiculous decisions. 

 

They both got lucky - very, very lucky - that nothing disastrous happened, and all are well, happy, and healthy, but I cringe inside to think that if they keep this up their luck will simply run out. The reality may be, God forbid, that they don't change their ways until something truly catastrophic happens. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

I think it's so sad, weird, counterintuitive, and plain old mean for people to engage in this kind of petty, passive-aggressive one-upmanship when it comes to labor and delivery. I'm not surprised that Jessa and Jill have been driven to the kind of competition where the "winner" gets to claim that they had the "Bestest Birth EVER !!!" when they have a self-styled fertility goddess for a mother !!!

 

I just don't get it - what benefit is there in their suffering ? Why did it become their favored currency in the commerce that is childbirth ? Why did Jill, and now Jessa, think that taking themselves to the very brink of disaster for both themselves and their unborn children was somehow... I don't know, ennobling ?!

 

Their thinking is just off-the-charts illogical. They are part of a family/cult that prizes babies, babies, and more babies above ALL else, yet they risk the lives and health of those very same babies for... what ? The chance to say they labored longer ? That they complained less of the pain ? That they "stuck it out" for longer before, inevitably, turning to the real medical professionals ? It's like they're competing in the Crazy Birthing Danger Olympics, and they want the Gold !!!

 

It's like Jessa said "Look, y'all - I can be even MORE stupid than Jill when I give birth ! I win !!!"

 

These are people who have the full boat when it comes to having their wisdom teeth out, as we've seen more times than I care to remember, with fully accredited medical professionals attending to them, proper anesthetic, and pain medication, but when giving birth to the most treasured commodity in their lives they decide to go solo and just "wing it" at home until it's almost too late ?!?!  

 

Full disclosure - not a mother here - having awesome stepchildren and doggies are much more my speed, thank you very much, so my notions about labor, delivery, etc, may be colored by my lack of experience in that area, but I don't have to have been struck by lightning to know that watching someone else get struck by lightning would, uh... suck. Pain is pain, and I'm not impressed or "inspired" by Jessa's (or Jill's !) terrible, ill-informed, ridiculous decisions. 

 

They both got lucky - very, very lucky - that nothing disastrous happened, and all are well, happy, and healthy, but I cringe inside to think that if they keep this up their luck will simply run out. The reality may be, God forbid, that they don't change their ways until something truly catastrophic happens. 

 

Maybe it's partly that they don't have as many areas in which to vent their competitiveness with each other as some other people do?

 

I mean, a lot of people are very competitive and almost everybody likes to tell stories about some really tough thing they went through that might outstrip other people's tough times. You know, like parents and grandparents telling kids about how they didn't get driven to school in an SUV with heated seats but had to walk there in snow four feet deep -- and it was uphill both ways. And how when you tell a story about a horrible time you had with red-tape and craziness during a hospital visit your friends and family often come up with I-can-sure-top-that stories about their (purportedly) even crazier, red-tapier experiences. And so on. .....

 

I think it's clear that the Duggar sisters are terribly competitive with each other -- Poor slobs got virtually no individual attention from anybody in their lives, even the most beloved of them (like Jill?), so it's hard for me to blame them for this .... But then when they try to be competitive they really have very few ways to do it, either positive or negative. They can't brag about their school accomplishments or how often they cut class without being caught or how one was more bullied by playground meanies than the other or more disliked by the principal or anything like that. They've done virtually everything together -- and they haven't done much....

 

So maybe the labor stuff is one of the few places where their (kinda understandably) super-intense sibling rivalries come out?

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Chicklet

Chicklet

(edited)

I think it's the suffering. It's something, while not to aspire to, that's an accomplishment of a sort. If you are a dumbass, of course. Because Jesus or something.

My christian family members are oh so proud of the suffering they endure. It shows how godly they are. One woman told me how god wouldn't have approved if her daughter (who was dying of cancer) left her abusive husband. Fun times.

Not that Jessa wouldn't flatten Bin if he laid a hand on her, because I can just imagine she would. But other suffering is competitive.

Edited by Chicklet
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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

I'm fairly certain that 24 hours before Michelle's video was shot, Jessa was having ice scream at a restaurant with Jordyn and others. And she had the baby around 6 or 7 pm that night, so I question it too. I'm curious who was examining and measuring Jessa's dilation.

Exactly. She looked a bit too chipper at her birthday lunch the day before Spurge was born to have been in active labor. I get they prolong the total hours to basically martyr themselves, but don't be surprised when people with more than half a leghumper brain call you on your shit.

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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

(edited)

I think it's so sad, weird, counterintuitive, and plain old mean for people to engage in this kind of petty, passive-aggressive one-upmanship when it comes to labor and delivery. I'm not surprised that Jessa and Jill have been driven to the kind of competition where the "winner" gets to claim that they had the "Bestest Birth EVER !!!" when they have a self-styled fertility goddess for a mother !!!

 

I just don't get it - what benefit is there in their suffering ? Why did it become their favored currency in the commerce that is childbirth ? Why did Jill, and now Jessa, think that taking themselves to the very brink of disaster for both themselves and their unborn children was somehow... I don't know, ennobling ?!

 

Their thinking is just off-the-charts illogical. They are part of a family/cult that prizes babies, babies, and more babies above ALL else, yet they risk the lives and health of those very same babies for... what ? The chance to say they labored longer ? That they complained less of the pain ? That they "stuck it out" for longer before, inevitably, turning to the real medical professionals ? It's like they're competing in the Crazy Birthing Danger Olympics, and they want the Gold !!!

 

It's like Jessa said "Look, y'all - I can be even MORE stupid than Jill when I give birth ! I win !!!"

 

These are people who have the full boat when it comes to having their wisdom teeth out, as we've seen more times than I care to remember, with fully accredited medical professionals attending to them, proper anesthetic, and pain medication, but when giving birth to the most treasured commodity in their lives they decide to go solo and just "wing it" at home until it's almost too late ?!?!  

 

Full disclosure - not a mother here - having awesome stepchildren and doggies are much more my speed, thank you very much, so my notions about labor, delivery, etc, may be colored by my lack of experience in that area, but I don't have to have been struck by lightning to know that watching someone else get struck by lightning would, uh... suck. Pain is pain, and I'm not impressed or "inspired" by Jessa's (or Jill's !) terrible, ill-informed, ridiculous decisions. 

 

They both got lucky - very, very lucky - that nothing disastrous happened, and all are well, happy, and healthy, but I cringe inside to think that if they keep this up their luck will simply run out. The reality may be, God forbid, that they don't change their ways until something truly catastrophic happens. 

 

Why the one-up-manship? Because it's all they have. It's the only sphere of accomplishment open to females. The only one the men will ever be impressed with - or at least impressed with out loud. And PS - if fundie men could have babies, the females wouldn't even be able to compete in childbirth. 

Edited by Wellfleet
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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

(edited)

Jessa had "Miss Theresa" the doula who helped Anna without having a midwifery license. Since the delivery headed south, she may be edited out of what airs.

TOTALLY cosign. I bet Miss Teresa was headed out that back door when Mechelle was on the phone with 911.  That said, I'd lay my meager fortune on the fact that Jill WILL be seen facetiming with the laboring Blessa. 

Edited by Sew Sumi
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dillpickles

dillpickles

Why the one-up-manship? Because it's all they have. It's the only sphere of accomplishment open to females. The only one the men will ever be impressed with - or at least impressed with out loud. And PS - if fundie men could have babies, the females wouldn't even be able to complete in childbirth.

Disagree here. Fundie men will never go out of their way to be in pain. Childbirth is messy and painful, therefore it is woman's work.

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SomePity1066

SomePity1066

I just saw the side of Ben's stupid hat. "LOVE GOD/HATE SIN" with the requisite cross. Are you fucking kidding me? Who does he think he is, Godmaster B?

 

 

"Friggidy friggidy friggidy fresh for my man JEEEEEESUUUUS!"

Only 23 minutes into the hour and I have my Posts of the Day !!!!!

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mbutterfly

mbutterfly

I think it's the suffering. It's something, while not to aspire to, that's an accomplishment of a sort. If you are a dumbass, of course. Because Jesus or something.

My christian family members are oh so proud of the suffering they endure. It shows how godly they are. One woman told me how god wouldn't have approved if her daughter (who was dying of cancer) left her abusive husband. Fun times.

Not that Jessa wouldn't flatten Bin if he laid a hand on her, because I can just imagine she would. But other suffering is competitive.

i understand these people are Christian, but oh please I hope you do know they are far, far from typical. 

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Chicklet

Chicklet

Oh I know not all Christians are like my family but sadly most of the Christians I have run into lately have been similar. I think the problem is with human beings in general and not just which religious group you belong to. Duggars are similar to many other extreme religious groups and maybe they are all more vocal and active now due to certain political issues and candidates which bring out the worst in people.

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Marigold

Marigold

It's super trendy right now to have an "all natural birth".

When Michelle had her older ones, I don't think that was in vogue. The later kids, she just did what she did previously, then she had a C-section and had a VBAC so that would be a hospital birth for safety.

These girls really have no accomplishments so giving birth is the pinnacle of their life. Doing it many times gives you a lot of accomplishments.

I have five kids and while being a mom is actually the role that I hold in highest esteem, I have accomplished many other things in my life. I can talk about other things besides 5 deliveries and 6 miscarriages.

Jill and Jessa have nothing else, really, to feel good about. So the drama and the entire birth process is THE BIGGEST DEAL for them. It defines who they are.

This is why the girls are so competitive over the birth process. That's all they have.

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doodlebug

doodlebug

(edited)

It's super trendy right now to have an "all natural birth".

When Michelle had her older ones, I don't think that was in vogue. The later kids, she just did what she did previously, then she had a C-section and had a VBAC so that would be a hospital birth for safety.

Actually, there were more people planning unmedicated births back 25-30 years ago than there are now.  And there has always been a subset of super fundies who are suspicious of traditional medical care (and often uninsured) who have sought care with lay midwives, especially those non-traditional midwives who are fundies, too. I think it is both because the extremely rigid fundamentalist types are often somewhat sheltered and try to avoid contact with those whose beliefs aren't congruent with their own and because many of them, like the Duggars, own their own businesses and don't have the money/desire to pay for health insurance.

 

The main difference between pregnant women wanting unmedicated birth then and now, from what I've seen is that the women today seem to be enamored of the notion but unwilling to do anything to prepare themselves.  They don't take childbirth classes or study self hypnosis or massage or other pain relief techniques; they seem to think that pulling up a couple of videos on You Tube is sufficient.  And it's not, which is why far more women today end up going the epidural route these days as soon as they find out what labor is all about.  It's really frustrating to me as a practitioner to have a woman tell me she isn't going to need anything for childbirth because 'I have a high pain tolerance' (translation:' I've never actually been in any significant pain') or that they've watched some births on TV and are now experts and need no further instruction. I feel like ordering their epidural in advance because, if anything, they're going to be begging for pain relief long before the woman who has gotten some birth preparation and knows from the start that she wants the option of an epidural.  I don't understand the thought process but it seems like the Duggar girls are part of that kind of thinking.

Edited by doodlebug
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Guest

Guest

In the preview for this sunday's Counting On being repeatedly shown on TLC, there is a quick shot where Jessa is being carried out to the ambulance on the stretcher and you can plainly see someone who looks very much like Teresa Fedosky standing in the house. 

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SomePity1066

SomePity1066

In the preview for this sunday's Counting On being repeatedly shown on TLC, there is a quick shot where Jessa is being carried out to the ambulance on the stretcher and you can plainly see someone who looks very much like Teresa Fedosky standing in the house. 

Leave it to the poutiest, "sassiest" member of the Duggar Clan to entrust the birth of her special angel miracle flower blessing to a hugely discredited, unlicensed, dangerous fuck-up of a "midwife". 

 

'Cuz they do things "just a little bit different..." 

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BitterApple

BitterApple

After Jill's disaster of a birth, I wonder if nobody will take the Duggars on as clients. Jill's midwife was raked over the coals for mismanaging Jill's delivery, but when she had to go before the State board, she said Jill never called or kept her informed about her progress, or lack thereof. Jessa's reputation may have preceded her and the best she could do was back-alley Theresa.

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Fuzzysox

Fuzzysox

After Jill's disaster of a birth, I wonder if nobody will take the Duggars on as clients. Jill's midwife was raked over the coals for mismanaging Jill's delivery, but when she had to go before the State board, she said Jill never called or kept her informed about her progress, or lack thereof. Jessa's reputation may have preceded her and the best she could do was back-alley Theresa.

Details please.

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