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S03.E11: The Skinny, Pt. 2


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29 minutes ago, M.F. Luder said:

I found this article from August 10th. Here's a quote:

Wow. Highest rated season ever. So many of us (myself included) can't even hate-watch anymore. Thanks for finding this and posting, @M.F. Luder

The descriptions of the show and of TLC are absurd. Some PR person really was slinging the shit. Gross.

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44 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Thanks everyone. Still rattled, still shocked. It will blow over, though. ☺

It will, as soon as people of the caliber have the next squirrel to distract them.  Hang in there.

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1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

THIS!!! It's funny, totally unrelated to this show, a friend of my posted a meme on FB today with the following quote. I feel like it fits how Whitney treats Kerryn perfectly. 'When a narcissist can no longer control you, she will try to control how others view you'.

Typically they DISCARD you, which is exactly what Whitney did to Kerryn.

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3 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I'm among those who will be deleting Part 2 from my DVR unwatched; then I'll delete this page from my home page on PTV.  I assume it will show up on the "celebrity" news when she is either cancelled or has a non-survivable health event because of her obesity.

I don't like mean people.  She's mean.  I'm done.

But....won't you miss us???!!!

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1 hour ago, abbey said:

So sad that this show apparently garners decent ratings.  I guess it shows that a fair amount of folks are buying into twit's no body shame campaign, which is just a cover for eating whatever you want and blaming everyone/everything but yourself for your weight.  I tried to find a link so I could email TLC my thoughts on this travesty of a show but had no luck.  Further research may be necessary.

If you find that email please share. I'm really wanting to email my thoughts to them as well.

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2 minutes ago, Tosia said:

Ok, show of hands...how many of us barfed when Twit said to Kerryn, " But you didn't say you respected me. " 

Oh, totally me. Well, not actual barf, but definitely the ol' side eye. Respect is extremely important to Whitney, which is hilarious, because she doesn't demonstrate it for herself. If Whitney had SELF-respect, do you really think she would be so large that she is unable to get her foot up onto a bench? I was also annoyed when she asked Lennie "did you miss me?" then let all that dead air hang there after he said yes. She finally whispered "I missed you too," but it seemed out of obligation to say something nice. She doesn't want to BE nice. She just wants to RECEIVE niceties.

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Oh, wait, wait, wait.....I got it, now.

When Kerryn was (contractually forced) to say those nice things to Twit, Kerryn left out the "respect" word.....she went off script!!!!

And Twit was not about to let her get away with it! !! 

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I have no idea what I just watched last night. All I can see is a show with no real purpose anymore whose 'star' let the fame go to her head and turned into a narcissistic bully. I really liked Whitney in S1 as it was a show that showed someone struggling with PCOS and trying to lose weight which I had in common with her. Her parents used to be sweet but I think fame went to their heads too at least for Babs it sure did. Basically they're a bunch of boring people now. And Whitney, everyone is plain tired of your constant excuses for everything.

During the entire interview I could see the wheels spinning in her head trying to justify so many things that made no sense and giving the death stare anytime someone called her out on it. She is so deep in denial and delusion it's sad. Bringing Kerryn and Lennie in was just plain cringe-worthy. I feel like TLC was trying to copy their best to be like the Real Housewives reunions, and boy did they ever fail (Real Housewives of Atlanta by far has the best drama-filled reunion specials).

What the hell will S4 be about anyway? The redemption season? I was seriously considering going to see her at the Toronto Curvy Women's conference this past July so glad I didn't! 

I'm the same age as Whitney, and I'm astounded by how immature she is. She acts like a perpetual college freshman. She hadn't had a real career in anything up until TLC 'discovered' her (I read her book too). All she ever talks about is how life is so unfair because of her size. As a person with PCOS I had to learn how to eat the right way so I don't balloon like she has and it is a pain but at least I can tie my shoes.

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1 hour ago, Diamond Dog said:

Long time lurker, and first time poster. 

TLC is Trash TV.  They actually called the reunion show, The Skinny?  Why didn't Whit, and her merry gang of enablers raise a stink over that? Oh yeah, don't bite the hand that feeds you. (pun intended)

Babs, is as fame hungry as her daughter. The sext to her son, was not sent after people told her about the mistake, but before, but she still sent it. Why?  Because, Babs wants to be blinking in confusion, and do the clueless southern belle act. Well, bless her heart, isn't she a peach?

Kerryn's message was on point, but her attempts at humour fell flat. 

Next season, Lennie, will be back, because he has more ugly cartoon paintings to sell.

 Roy, will be back too, and inserted into Whit's love triangle, because as we know, every man wants her!

Buddy is fast-tracking his way to Whit-town level of heaviness. Those two probably have regular feeding, and drinking frenzies at Casa Denial. He really looks like a bloated mess. His behavior at the reunion was disgusting. Actually, nobody on Whit's team were able to retort back with any semblance of intelligence. 

 

Glenn, and Babs: Guaranteed, your daughter will die a premature death if she continues on this way. Hand-holding, constant validation, and smothering isn't helping her heal herself. You need to cut the cord, and be strong. 

Also, no money, or fame in this world can replace self-respect, and dignity.  Whit, and all her family, and friends have given up theirs for a TLC paycheque. 

Was it only me but did Buddy sound like he was wheezing when he was breathing half the time?  

Someone above posted about why did they get a commedian to confront Twitney. Who else would they get? With a comedian they can cut her to shreds and make Twit look like a princess to her sheep. If they had someone credible like a Doctor (WHERE THE HECK IS DR. NOW?) they cannot call him/her names and tell them where to go.  TLC knows their crap. 

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I wrote TLC and complained about last night's show, about the bullying and name-calling of Kerryn and the mistreatment by the hostess and show in general. I have NEVER complained to a television program before, but last night's treatment of her on that episode was appalling. 

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25 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Was it only me but did Buddy sound like he was wheezing when he was breathing half the time?  

Someone above posted about why did they get a commedian to confront Twitney. Who else would they get? With a comedian they can cut her to shreds and make Twit look like a princess to her sheep. If they had someone credible like a Doctor (WHERE THE HECK IS DR. NOW?) they cannot call him/her names and tell them where to go.  TLC knows their crap. 

Exactly.  Can you imagine if they got Dr. Phil? Do you think he's going to roll over and say 'oh poor Whitney' or put up with her abuse?

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40 minutes ago, greekmom said:

If you find that email please share. I'm really wanting to email my thoughts to them as well.

Go to their website and hit the "feedback" link on the bottom. It will take you to a page where you can email them. 

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17 hours ago, DNR said:

Wow. 

Buddy said " go have a drink " when Kerryn was leaving the set. Sooooo they can all attack but god forbid anyone talk honestly about Twits obvious physical health issues 

I couldn't sit through it all last night so I am watching the rest today.  I thought Whit's friends were HORRIBLE to Kerryn.  What gigantic (not referring to size) assholes!  This isn't HWs where they get paid extra to be flaming assholes.  This is about a morbidly obese YOUNG woman and the only person who dares speak the truth gets treated like shit.  Now I do believe Kerryn needs to refrain from calling names because the truth is enough.  But I honestly am not sure how I would handle being on the stage with Whits ass kissing crew.  Whits friends and family are going to yes her right into her piano sized coffin.  It is sad.

I also actually screamed at the tv when Kerryn gave Whit all those compliments but because she didn't say she respected Whit,  Whits a giant bitch to her.  I will finish tonight because I am not a quitter but there will NOT be season 4 for me.  Ok, I am kind of a quitter.  But I finish a task dammit!

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17 hours ago, TotoGirl said:

Oh, and EIGHT against one...real tough people there are!!! All of her 'friends' are doing such good things for Twit in the long run....maybe they can each carry a handle on her casket.

I giggled when the female friend made a comment about taking her shoes off (in an attempt to imply there was going to be ass kicking).  1st of all, it COULD be seen as insensitive to W because she can't reach her own shoes but 2nd, sure you are going to throw down on the truth teller.  What a welcoming bunch of Z list celebs.  We see how you tackle issues straight on like being W's yes man/woman.  And Buddy shut up.  If you can't speak without getting out of breath and being super insulting your best bet is to just sit quietly.

I went into this thinking that the peripheral cast were fine and it was just W that I thought was an asshole.  Now it is unanimous to me.  They are all assholes.

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11 hours ago, PhereNicae1 said:

exactly, people have this weird double standard, Whitney is an addict and Kerryn can attack her, but its not OK the other way around and attack Kerryns addiction? I mean, its terrible, low and not OK in both cases.

Whitney is not an addict if you ask her.  WE know she is but she has not acknowledged it.  Kerryn has of course acknowledged she IS an addict.  I do think K needs to be less name-cally because being cruel is not necessary although straight facts are.  Also, this is WHITS show, about her Big Fat Fabulous Life and Kerryn was asked to be on it.  Kerryn does not have a show about her Big Drunk Fabulous Life.

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1 hour ago, Tosia said:

Ok, show of hands...how many of us barfed when Twit said to Kerryn, " But you didn't say you respected me. " 

While I didn't barf,  I did say "But it isn't morning, yet - she doesn't know" out loud to Whitney.

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thank you mamadrama.  Just went to their site and submitted my feedback  Hope more of us can do the same. Not that it will make a difference as TLC doesn't care except for what will bring in ratings.  But they need to hear from those of us who don't consider Whitney fabulous.

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 I am still sitting here thinking about last night's episode. In addition to the fact that the scene with Lenny and the scenes with Kerryn  were downright uncomfortable to watch because I was embarrassed for her and Lenny and furious about the ambush on Kerryn, it led me to think about something. And it is this. Who sits on a sofa, on national television, all dolled up in a dress,  hair and make up done by professionals, without any shoes on because you can't put shoes on that aren't flip-flops and  has no awareness that something is terribly wrong???

At some level, that astounds me.

Edited by Kid
Correct syntax
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10 minutes ago, abbey said:

thank you mamadrama.  Just went to their site and submitted my feedback  Hope more of us can do the same. Not that it will make a difference as TLC doesn't care except for what will bring in ratings.  But they need to hear from those of us who don't consider Whitney fabulous.

@mamadramaMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMA

Quote

 

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Omg. Sorry. My kindle is dying. It's wonky with this site anyway.

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Also sent an email to TLC/Discovery about the show and I that have stopped watching. Also told them to stop with the TLC Learning Channel joke, plus their incessant self-promoting commercials, and how they exploit their "stars". Felt good to do. 

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9 minutes ago, seasons said:

@mamadramaMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMAMAMADMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMADRAMMAMADRAMAMAMADRAMAMA

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Omg. Sorry. My kindle is dying. It's wonky with this site anyway.

Haha. It was like a little song. 

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Kerryn had some good points, but she lost me when she said "When people call me names all I hear is you're so skinny!" There is something mentally off about that. Her apology was nice, I thought, and if Whitney was smart she should have said Thank You and shut her hole. That was a win right there, but she had to go on about respect. 

When Whitney asked Lennie if he'd come back for another season, you could just see him mentally checking his bank account.

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1 minute ago, SongbirdHollow said:

Kerryn had some good points, but she lost me when she said "When people call me names all I hear is you're so skinny!" There is something mentally off about that. Her apology was nice, I thought, and if Whitney was smart she should have said Thank You and shut her hole. That was a win right there, but she had to go on about respect. 

When Whitney asked Lennie if he'd come back for another season, you could just see him mentally checking his bank account.

I thought that was in response to "skinny bitch." Like, she was ignoring the bitch part. I think something got edited out.

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2 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I thought that was in response to "skinny bitch." Like, she was ignoring the bitch part. I think something got edited out.

Yes, you are probably right. (I'm not watching that disaster again to check, LOL!) But I seem to remember her saying the same thing on her episode, too. It stood out to me as I tried to figure out her motivation.

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57 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Haha. It was like a little song. 

Lol! It happened the other day on the home shopping forum with a different post and someone said it looked like wallpaper! Glad you got a chuckle!

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1 hour ago, mamadrama said:
1 hour ago, MrHufflepuff said:

It kind of creeped me out for a second, like that scene in "The Shining" when Shelly Duvall finds Jack Nicholson's "manuscript."   Until I saw it was a Kindle problem.

"All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy." Lol.

On topic, season 4 "manuscript" already in development,I guess. 

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1 minute ago, ClareWalks said:

Makes perfect sense to me. I was like "why is Whitney at the Olympics? Oh, that's Simone Biles, my bad. They're INDISTINGUISHABLE."

I've really got to start wearing Depends.

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21 hours ago, Nowhere said:

When hate watching starts taking a toll on your stress levels and you actually get legitimately angry, that's when you should call it a day. It's not enjoyable to watch any of these assholes. I'm deleting it from my dvr right now. I'll check the forums maybe but this bitch is not worth it anymore and I will not contribute to her. 

My thoughts exactly. After reading here I deleted both of the "Skinny" episodes without watching. Thanks to everyone who posted reports. I'm afraid I can't ditch TLC yet though because Toddlers and Tiaras is coming back. I've got to get my horror somewhere.

Edited by momofsquid
gibberish is bad
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7 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Whitney's obsession with smells explains a lot. Smell and taste are closely linked. I'll bet she eats to fulfill her need for sensory stimulation. 

I was thinking the same thing! She really seems more in tune/rather obsessive with her sense of smell. Definitely connects with her eating habits/tastes. Personally the whole armpit thing squicked me out though, like gag reflex level of revulsion. Even if I liked that there’s no way I’d reveal it, let alone do it on national television (though with my anxiety I doubt I’d do much of anything on national television). But, uh, clearly she has no problem letting her freak flag fly in public so okay girl do you.

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25 minutes ago, Cinnamini11 said:

But, uh, clearly she has no problem letting her freak flag fly in public

Maybe she wraps it around her and runs around the dance studio like they do with flags at the Olympics.

She is an athlete you know....

Edited by TotoGirl
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So many comments on the train wreck that is Whitney.  Mind you, I am not comparing her to a train - that would be fat shaming and we all know that we can't do that.

I will say that if I was assigned the bountiful athlete Whitney as a client I would flat out refuse to counsel her.  I would however, be more than delighted to counsel Babs and Glenn on their destructive behavior towards their daughter.  I can't say too much but I will say that I question their love for her.  Not that they don't love her but it's a destructive love that is literally killing her piece by piece.

As noted before on my previous posts I have never liked Babs or her southern belle schtick.  She's as obnoxious as her offspring and enjoys the limelight, camera and attention as much - if not more - than her athletic daughter. 

Glenn has no testicles whatsoever.  He apparently traded them for a contract with TLC. 

My final question for the Mr. and Mrs. is "how do you sleep at night knowing that you're selling your daughter for a cheap reality show that will be over and forgotten long after she's dragging an oxygen tank hooked up to a scooter? Or a hospital bed?

Think Richard Hatch of Survivor and the glorious path he's taken since his first appearance on Survivor.   No one cares about him any more.  The lights of his reality show career have faded.

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1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

Makes perfect sense to me. I was like "why is Whitney at the Olympics? Oh, that's Simone Biles, my bad. They're INDISTINGUISHABLE."

Maybe Whitney thinks she and Simone are the same. After all Simone doesn't wear shoes in gymnastics LOL

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that Kerryn segment was pointless and consisted in Whitney's friends calling her names. Also, What the hell is wrong with Lennie? Is he high? If that's his real personality, if you can call it that, how can anyone be attracted to that? Even if he were hot, he's so blah and silent and shy and so not interesting. I'm shy around strangers, but I make an effort. Is this a hipster thing? No emotion? Whitney is the opposite , she's loud and obnoxious, but at least she has a personality. Has anyone checked for Lennie's pulse? Worst.Reality show character. Ever

ETA: I realized the reason I watch this show is Todd. God I love him and his accent

Edited by DatFatShorty
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That was easily one the most horrifying, infuriating hours of television I have ever witnessed. There was so much wrong with the whole episode but I will try to key in a couple of things. All of you have been saying what I have thought, as well as yelled at the tv screen, during the episode. I also have to say that I appreciate having this forum to express what I think, read others' opinions, and am happy to find so many in agreement :)

If anyone was vile last night, it was Whitney's ragtag team of half wits. Calling someone the "c" word is hostile and disgusting. I used to like Todd. Not anymore. The fact that that moment, as well as publicly ridiculing and shaming Kerryn, is being applauded over on Whit's fb page is also gross. I'm not a prude and enjoy my fair share of colorful language, but I feel that that is one word you just don't say - or in this case, imply or allude to. Period. 

The whole "you didn't say you respect me" line is bullshit. While Kerryn lacks tact in her delivery, her points are valid and true. Her apology fell on deaf ears with this crowd though. How would she have shown Whitney respect? Helping her put her shoes on? Smelling her armpit? Whitney - you are not the godfather nor the Pope. No one has to kiss your ring.

And Buddy? At least Kerryn is trying. She has been open and honest about her sobriety and says that it is a daily struggle. When has Whitney been truly honest about her obvious food addiction? Never. She is undeclared and protected. To tell Kerryn to go have a drink was cruel. He should be ashamed of himself.

Whitney, stop telling the world your life is so hard, unfair, how you are shamed, how you can't do this or that, etc, because YOU can change it.  What is a shame, is that you don't want to. Sadly, surrounded by her minions, she never will. 

PS Lenny should stick with teaching arts and crafts because his acting career just took a massive nosedive. Everything in that scene was uncomfortable and cringeworthy, right down to her creepily whispering "you smell good" and grabbing his beard. Ugh. My brain.

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Whitney's lack of shoes and style of dress made her look very juvenile. The first thing I thought is she looked like an adult baby. 

I secretly loved when Yukon did the duck and weave to fend off her advance on the couch.  

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everything kerryn said was true.

I hate Buddy now, he's a (dare I say, fat?) loser.

When she said she had big news about her dancing career, I assumed she's headed for dancing with the stars because what else could be that big? unless she's some kind of judge on a different dance show

Edited by Pepperminty
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