Rio Scandals: Is It Ready, Will The Place Kill You & More!

[Daisy]

Just now, tanyak said:

Oh, shit.

Ryan!!!! If this is true, this is ridiculous. Ryan is waaaaay to old for this shit. The two young ones at least have the excuse that they are still in college. I barely have words.

I know! they were saying that someone was going with "They are only kids" excuse, but Lochte's 32. 
(when more news comes on the radio i'll transcribe as fast as i can. 

[Athena]

Things are getting a tad intense in this thread. Please remember to not snark on your fellow posters and generalize negatively about groups of people. This story is breaking and information and opinions can change by the hour. Please remember to take a break and not argue with others about it. Thank you.

[Raachel2008]

13 hours ago, Kromm said:

An attempted arrest/passport seizure two days after he's left the country?  It almost sounds like they wanted to make it sound like he'd run. But it's ludicrous. His passport had to be checked to leave the country on a commercial flight, so it makes me suspicious of a system that didn't even seem to know he was gone.  So is massive incompetence the alternative perhaps?

The system is different. The judge gathered the facts, decided they had to explain themselves better, issued a general warrant and that was it. Of course the board control knew he was gone, but it isn't the MO for the judge to know the whereabouts of those named in the warrant. That is the police's job and they knew where they were, thus taking the two swimmers out of the plane.

 

27 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

that crazy story before the start of the Olympics about an athlete being kidnapped by fake police officers

Not to the dimiss the violence, but the guy was not an Olympian, but a New Zealander who has been living in Rio for over a year,  training jiu-jitsu and has a journalist girlfriend who reported the story.

I'm not sure why people can't believe Lochte and the others would be lying. Sure, stupid, but not impossible. I don't get why it is wrong for Rio's police to try to clear something they believe is a false report.  Reverse the countries and I don't think people would be pissed off if American cops were trying to clear what they believe is a false report by, say, Brazilian athletes.

Typing from my cell, so sorry for the typos.

[Arynm]

Here we go. Tmz has the story.

http://www.tmz.com/2016/08/18/team-usa-swimmers-ryan-lochte-gas-station-security-guard/

dumb drunk americans. Maybe the guard did pull a gun, but robbed? nope just stupid

[mehtotheworld]

If this is true, this goes way beyond laughable sex idiot territory. This seems like legacy tarnished, ugly American territory. GD.

[FrenchCheese]

10 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

Well, why would Lochte be breaking down the washroom door if the owner was pleading for them to use it? 

Because he was drunk. Since when people actions are making sense when they are drunk?

And if they got into troubles with the owner and pay for the damages, I can now understand the stupid robbery story they are telling. It is the french rugby player story all over again. Drunk guy makes a mistake, drunk guy need to explain it to a staff member (or his family) and come up with a lie. Staff member believe him (because why would he lie?) and talk to the media. It gets attention and not drunk anymore guy can not backtrack. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by FrenchCheese

[mtlchick]

There is so much slow clapping towards the swimmers at this point that at some point, you have to say "You fucking morons."

So if all this is true, what happens to the other swimmers? Can the USOC and FINA impose sanctions on them?  Lotche didn't seem like a huge get for endorsements before Rio but he certainly won't be now.  (And he would have been a prime candidate for an E! reality show but been there done that.)

 

What a mess.

[biakbiak]

If this is true than Lochte has to be the "mastermind" because he is the only one stupid enough to think that this was a good plan and probably pressured the other guys to go along. Seriously, if the paid for the damages I bet even breaking the door wouldn't have been a story since it doesn't appear the owner reported the incident.

[Daisy]

Again - this whole thing got started... 
Because Lochte lied to his Mom. 

(well, he got drunk and did stupid stuff - but had he not lied to Mum, Mum doesn't tell the world and this doesn't get the coverage). 

[BitterApple]

It's hard to believe anyone could be this stupid. All they had to do was throw the owner of the gas station a couple hundred bucks to repair the door and this wouldn't have even made it into the press. I knew Lochte wasn't the brightest bulb, but to concoct a story about being robbed at gunpoint, and thinking the entire group was going to be able to stick to the story the whole way through just reaches a whole new level of idiocy.

I do think the Brazilian authorities are over reacting, though. I mean really, lying to police is pretty tame compared to the other crime that infests that city. The American Olympic committee just needs to pay off the right officials and get those swimmers the hell out of there. 

[biakbiak]

5 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

It's hard to believe anyone could be this stupid. All they had to do was throw the owner of the gas station a couple hundred bucks to repair the door and this wouldn't have even made it into the press. I knew Lochte wasn't the brightest bulb, but to concoct a story about being robbed at gunpoint, and thinking the entire group was going to be able to stick to the story the whole way through just reaches a whole new level of idiocy.

I do think the Brazilian authorities are over reacting, though. I mean really, lying to police is pretty tame compared to the other crime that infests that city. The American Olympic committee just needs to pay off the right officials and get those swimmers the hell out of there. 

According to reports, even the police source, they did pay for the damages so they are just straight up stupid. Hell even if the owner went to the press it would be "swimmers get drunk when out celebrating their great week," blip of a story. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by biakbiak

[Nidratime]

Quote

It's hard to believe anyone could be this stupid. All they had to do was throw the owner of the gas station a couple hundred bucks to repair the door and this wouldn't have even made it into the press. I knew Lochte wasn't the brightest bulb, but to concoct a story about being robbed at gunpoint, and thinking the entire group was going to be able to stick to the story the whole way through just reaches a whole new level of idiocy.

Maybe they did throw money at him? (If they were, alternatively, claiming to be robbed because they had less money on them when they returned.) 

I'll be curious to see if the swimmers, when they return, agree with the police that they lied or go on with saying that they were robbed. 

[FrenchCheese]

But apparently they paid the gas owner (or the security guard). I guess that once back at the Village someone from the staff (or Lochte mum) asked where was all the money they had. And they came up with that stupid lie instead of telling the truth. 

Again Brazilian authorities are not over-reacting they are following through a robbery report. It is normal to do so. It just happens that by following through they end up discovering a lie and they had to ask questions to the swimmers. To do so they had to make sure they stayed in Rio (hence the passport holding). Now that the story is uncovered, it is unlikely that it will go further than that. Swimmers will probably be allowed to go back to the US before the end of the games

[Raachel2008]

Dumb, dumb, dumb, DUMB. From Google translate (160 reais = 50 bucks)

http://veja.abril.com.br/esporte/a-farsa-dos-baderneiros-campeoes/

The Civil Police of Rio have uncovered the alleged assault suffered by four American swimmers during a fake blitz at dawn on Sunday, including 12-time Olympic medalist Ryan Lochte. For the Special Police Team to Support Tourism (Deat), the plot revealed by the champion is false. In fact, the group invented the story to covering up a dawn of drunkenness and riot carried out in a gas station in Barra da Tijuca, the way the Olympic Village.

Lochte and teammates Gunnar Bentz, Jack Conger and James Feigen left a party in the House of France, Equestrian, the Lagoa, at 5:46 a.m.. From there they took a taxi and were causing turmoil in the car. When they reached the Barra da Tijuca, they asked the driver to pull over at a gas station at the entrance of Ocean Garden. And there began to star vandalism scenes. At the back of the establishment, swimmers came to pee his pants and ended up breaking an advertising board.

A post client, who is a police officer, challenged the group. He said he would call the police. The call to 190 was made, but it took too long and the group threatened to run away. Armed, this customer would have had to stop. Three threw themselves to the ground, less Lochte.

Then one of the athletes offered money to compensate the damage of the broken plate. The staff at first did not accept, and insisted that it would be best to wait for the arrival of the PM. As the car did not come, kindly gave 160 real by the board repair and left in a taxi.

The curious thing is that the employees themselves the post did not realize at first that the riot which took place in the early morning would be related to the alleged assault revealed by Lochte's mother and that made the pages of the world. "Only on Tuesday we saw that those rioters shot at post here were the same history of assault. He did not have any assault. They invented it because they are ashamed of what they did, "said an official at the SEE site.

When they left the station, the athletes returned to the Olympic Village and arrived in access control at exactly 6:56 a.m.. Lochte appears playing and athletes with their mobile phones and wallets, which obviously have weakened the assault thesis. The taxi driver who led the group is testifying right now.

Lochte, who returned to the United States in the last 15 days, and Feigen, shall be indicated by false crime reporting in the survey conducted by the delegate Alexandre Braga, the Deat. Feigen, incidentally, did check out the Olympic Village, but follows in Rio de Janeiro in place yet unknown. The court ruled that he did not get out of Brazil. Coner and Bentz tried to board yesterday back home, but were removed from the plane by court order.

[tennisgurl]

Oh for the love of...

I swear, its shit like this that makes me, as an American, want to go from person to person, around the world, apologizing, and swearing that we arent all this stupid and obnoxious. Now, being an idiot while drunk than covering your ass is probably a universal human concept, but it just hits that Ugly American thing right on the head. The more I hear of this story, the more ridiculous it all sounds. So they already paid damages? Then why the story? Why the fake robbery? Just say you got drunk celebrating and did something dumb. People can relate to that! Not to making up a fake robbery! 

That being said, it could turn out there was some truth to it? Maybe they did actually get robbed at some point? No idea, the story seems like it changes every five minutes. I wonder if the Brazilian authorities are being so hard on this because the athletes made their city look bad?

[Nidratime]

I'm not embarrassed. The only time these guys represent the U.S. is when they get in the pool and swim. What they do on their off hours is completely on them.

[Raachel2008]

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Maybe they did actually get robbed at some point?

According to the magazine (think Fox News on paper, but very very reliable abput violence/police issues), no robbery. They paid the damage and left.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Raachel2008

[sab85]

Though it sounds like the person who told them to stop destroying stuff may have been armed? Maybe where they got the idea. 

But yeah,  dumb. Just admit it and it's an "Americans are idiots" non story. Lochte lies to his mom and causes an international incident. 

[stealinghome]

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

The more I hear of this story, the more ridiculous it all sounds. So they already paid damages? Then why the story? Why the fake robbery? Just say you got drunk celebrating and did something dumb. People can relate to that! Not to making up a fake robbery! 

This. This is way, way stupider than I imagined any of them could have been. If you paid the damages and it was a done deal, why would you make up a story that then made it a story? I highly doubt anyone was sitting there counting the money in their wallets...no one would have known if they hadn't made it an issue. Apparently I have Lochte et al too much credit for brains by saying they're amoeba-like. They've officially entered Darwin Award candidate territory.

[xaxat]

It was going to take an Olympic effort to take the "ugly American" title from Hope Solo, but Lochte and co. somehow managed to rise to the occasion.

[Raachel2008]

5 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

I'm not embarrassed. The only time these guys represent the U.S. is when they get in the pool and swim. What they do on their off hours is completely on them.

Sorry, no. I represent my country whever I'm on foreign soil, because I'm the part of my country people are seeing in front of them.

 

1 minute ago, sab85 said:

Though it sounds like the person who told them to stop destroying stuff may have been armed? Maybe where they got the idea. 

The reports say the person was a police officer, so...

[tanyak]

I mean, it kinda of makes sense now. He told his mom he was robbed (why???). She told the press (why???). He initially denied it (which was the the truth). But then it started spiraling and they concocted this crazy story. Lawd.

The other three will likely get through this because they are young and don't have the name recognition. But Ryan is done with USA Swimming, at least for a little bit. And it's his public persona that's really taking the hit. Most people couldn't pick those other three out of a lineup. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by tanyak

[GreyBunny]

For all the talk about Brazil being a craphole country because of infrastructure, Zika, and dodgy water quality, the real crapholes are these four Americans.  I hope the three still in Brazil get chucked in jail, and too bad they can't extradite Lochte because I'd love to see his sorry ass get locked up as well.  Fuck them.

[Nidratime]

Quote

Sorry, no. I represent my country whever I'm on foreign soil, because I'm the part of my country people are seeing in front of them.

I don't personally accept responsibility for the actions of every American that goes overseas in regards to their personal behavior outside of any "official" duties they might have. Just as I don't feel responsible for what they do while in their home country. 

[mtlchick]

Quote

I do think the Brazilian authorities are over reacting, though. I mean really, lying to police is pretty tame compared to the other crime that infests that city.

I don't think they are over reaching.  If people were attempting to pose as police officers, it becomes a question of where they got the uniforms from which is a crime in itself.  Not to mention, yes, there have been robberies and kidnappings and what not.  I'm guessing the resources in Rio are pretty tight due to corruption so for them to waste money and resources on a crime that possibly never existed in this kind of setting?  I don't completely blame for going 'So...you lied for days. You think we're going to be just ok with that?"  Eventually this will die down but for the swimmers involved, they just screwed themselves.

 

Plus Ryan's mom is going to be PISSED at him.  That's much worse.

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

 

 

The reports say the person was a police officer, so...

Everything I have read said he was an armed security guard. If he was a police officer why did it take so long for the story to come out?

[tennisgurl]

I just have this image of the Brazilian authorities threatening to call Ryan's mom, and him begging them not to, followed by her dragging him back home by his ear. Hopefully while everyone else laughs and points. 

[bosawks]

51 minutes ago, tanyak said:

Oh, shit.

Ryan!!!! If this is true, this is ridiculous. Ryan is waaaaay to old for this shit. The two young ones at least have the excuse that they are still in college. I barely have words.

You would think that Lochte was smart enough to realize he was too dumb to pull off a "cover story".........

[satrunrose]

5 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

I don't think they are over reaching.  If people were attempting to pose as police officers, it becomes a question of where they got the uniforms from which is a crime in itself.  Not to mention, yes, there have been robberies and kidnappings and what not.  I'm guessing the resources in Rio are pretty tight due to corruption so for them to waste money and resources on a crime that possibly never existed in this kind of setting?  I don't completely blame for going 'So...you lied for days. You think we're going to be just ok with that?"  Eventually this will die down but for the swimmers involved, they just screwed themselves.

 

Plus Ryan's mom is going to be PISSED at him.  That's much worse.

I don't really think the Brazilian officials are being unreasonable either. No city or country makes an olympic bid because they want to look bad. A big swimming celebrity like Ryan Lochte having a gun held to his head looks really bad and you can see tourists with money factoring that in their decision to visit Rio in the future. I don't think trying to keep all the players in Brazil until the record is set straight is a bad thing to want.  

[FuriousStyles]

Not to be all Monday morning QBing, but i thought Lochte was lying from the beginning.  I saw a clip of him detailing his ordeal to a reporter and it wasnt even about what he was saying, it was how he was saying it. It sounded like he was actually trying to remember what to say...as if lying.  IMO, if you had just been held at gunpoint a night or 2 before you'd be able to be a bit more convincing than what I saw.  I dont even know the details or what actually happened and frankly I dont really care. Lochte has always come across to me as the typical douchebag frat boy. This story doesn't tarnish my opinion of him at all.

Edited August 18, 2016 by FuriousStyles

[Raachel2008]

14 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Plus Ryan's mom is going to be PISSED at him.  That's much worse.

No she will not, she will just spin it. I can already tell how the PR damage control is going to make this one  work: the police officer was out of his uniform (not that all the police officers wear uniforms),  so they will say they thought he was someone posing as a police officer, language barrier,  foreign country, city with a history of violence, blah blah blah.

I can even see the "boys will be boys" crap throwing around, since we are already seeing the "he is only 32" excuse.

15 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Everything I have read said he was an armed security guard. If he was a police officer why did it take so long for the story to come out?

Local reports say it was a police officer.

20 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

I don't personally accept responsibility for the actions of every American that goes overseas in regards to their personal behavior outside of any "official" duties they might have.

Ok, but they still represent US when abroad. Same for anyone else, IMO.

[Dots And Stripes]

Thanks to everyone who has posted articles about the Lochte situation. The google translate one reminded me that the language barrier could have contributed to the escalation of whatever happened. Drunk guys are acting out, are confronted by a guard whose primary language is different from theirs. Drunk guys have difficulty processing what is happening and it starts to get out hand. That's no excuse for breaking down doors or peeing outside of the bathroom (if that's what happened) but I think it does explain some of the confusion and why things could get out of hand quickly. More troubling is Lochte going around telling tales about a robbery if he knew that wasn't true. He did that sober and with time to reflect. My guess is his team will want him to go to rehab after this. 

[NUguy514]

I also thought Lochte was full of shit the entire time, and while Matt Lauer and Bob Costas were giving themselves hernias trying to twist everything to make Lochte still look like the victim, I believed the story even less.

The anti-Rio and anti-Brazil comments have made me very uncomfortable.  I've been to Rio, I've been to the exact part of Rio this club is in, and it is NOT a dangerous part of the city; on the contrary, it's one of the nicest parts of Rio.  Rio is an incredibly beautiful city, and the people are wonderful.  There is plenty of crime, but not in that part of Rio specifically, and I'm glad my spidey senses turned out to be correct on this bullshit.

[TobinAlbers]

8 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

No she will not, she will just spin it.

Publicly she may spin it, privately she'll want to tan Ryan's hide.

Lauer and Costas have to be so pissed at these guys right now. Not once, but twice RL talked to Matt and used him to perpetuate the story.

[innocuouspuff]

Quote

However, Lochte’s lawyer, Jeff Ostrow, has rejected accusations that they fabricated the events. “The country has a dark cloud over it for a million and one reasons, from their economy to their crime to their management of the Olympics,” he said. 

Saw that quote from Lochte's lawyer elsewhere and it kinda highlights why this feels like Americans picking on a poorer (and yes, browner) country. Not a good look.

http://www.thewrap.com/us-olympic-swimmers-ryan-lochte-removed-from-flight-by-brazilian-police-usoc-says/

[Nidratime]

Regarding not believing Lochte at first ... to be honest, I'm of the opposite mind set. I tend to want to believe victims of crime when they say they've been victimized, until proven otherwise. Too many people -- but usually people with little power -- *have been* victimized and weren't believed. More so in the past, than now. But it still happens. In this case the shoe ended up being on the other foot....

Edited August 18, 2016 by Nidratime

[mehtotheworld]

33 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

I don't personally accept responsibility for the actions of every American that goes overseas in regards to their personal behavior outside of any "official" duties they might have. Just as I don't feel responsible for what they do while in their home country. 

I don't feel responsible but I'm fucking embarrassed for them, and a little for my country. Look at all the people willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, defending them against Brazilian police, etc. For every Abbey D'Agostino being a more than decent human (along with New Zealand's Nikki Hamblin), there seems to be a Lochte (and his swimmer friends) who ruin any goodwill.

[Nidratime]

Yeah, that's what I mean. Abbey D'Agostino, while she was competing and representing her country, did a really gracious thing and we should all be proud of that. 

[mightysparrow]

2 hours ago, GinnyMars said:

If Rio is soooo dangerous, why aren't the federations/olympic committees advising their uber-rich athletes to walk around with bodyguards? Or if trained bodyguards are too expensive, at least hire a pool of local guides to go out with the athletes, especially if they're planning to imbibe. Either Rio is the Wild West and you take the necessary measures, or you admit that things aren't that bad and millions of Cariocas are surviving every year. Most of the people who run into problems messed up in the first place.

[againstthewind]

http://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/olimpiadas/rio2016/noticia/2016/08/video-do-posto-de-gasolina-mostra-confusao-com-nadadores-americanos.html

It looks like Ryan told a partial truth. Yes, a gun was pulled on them and yes they took their money. They took their money FOR DAMAGES caused by the guys peeing everywhere and messing up a bathroom.

[Raachel2008]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/19/sports/olympics/police-say-ryan-lochte-lied-about-gunpoint-assault.html?_r=0

Rio Olympics organizing comittee spokerperson already calling them "kids". (White) male privilegy, a constant around the world.

31 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

My guess is his team will want him to go to rehab after this. 

Is there rehab for stupidity???

[mightysparrow]

I have no idea what happened to my computer.

Rio IS a dangerous place especially for the Black and Brown people who live in the horrific slums.  The favellas have literally been walled off from where the Olympics are being held and the people who live there are being held prisoners to all the rich people (and the cameras) and cameras are gone.  Meanwhile the violence that is a daily part of their lives continue.

Rio police are also known for their corruption.  Lochte probably knew about this and decided to make up a story to tell his mommy, not knowing that his mommy likes attention as much as he does and would drop a dime on her son's ignorant ass.  The big surprise for me is that Lochte was actually aware of conditions in Rio.  I don't believe for a moment that he read about it, so somebody must have told him.  He and the other swimmers must have been warned about going outside the perimeter but Lochte must have wanted to go somewhere where he was the most famous guy in the place.

I don't know what the penalty for making a false report is in Brazil but those guys should be charged.  Obviously this is not a case where hard time needs to be served but they shouldn't be able to get off scott-free with this bullshit.  If they destroyed property, they should be charged for that too.

[mtlchick]

Video footage is out: http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20996464_21025200,00.html

[biakbiak]

Tmz has the video. though you can't see them doing amy damage or the confrontation with the guards. You do briefly see one with their hands up and three of them sitting on the ground.

Edited August 18, 2016 by biakbiak

[pivot]

This is officially the craziest damn thing I've heard this year and this year has been crazy. I hope all the people bitching about Gabby Douglas embarassing her country by not putting her hand over her heart take a look at this story and publicly apologize to Gabby. 

And how dumb were the other swimmers for letting Lochte mastermind this plan? Lochte is an imbecile. 

[mightysparrow]

1 hour ago, KenyaJ said:

I can't get over the official statement from IOC spokesman Mario Andrada, saying "Let's give these kids a break." Really? Lochte is 32. And if it had been the US men's 4x100 relay team who had done this, would anyone be calling them "kids" and shrugging this off as harmless fun? We'd be hearing nonstop about the thugs who caused mayhem at a gas station.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!

These grown ass men were guests in a foreign country and decided they could act the fool and get away with it.  Rio is a violent place but THEY are the ones who were violent, breaking down a door and lying about an armed robbery.  The people of Brazil, especially the poor people have suffered a great deal so Rio could hold the Olympics.  Lochte and his crew spit in the face of all that suffering and thought they could get away with it because their rich, White Americans.

Let the Brazillian swimming team pull that shit in the US and see what happens.

 

Edited to add:  I'm going to brag!   I called 'bullshit' the second I heard this story!

Edited August 18, 2016 by mightysparrow
add bragging

[Growsonwalls]

Alarm bells should have went off the minute Lochte said this all in a press conference but didn't speak to the police about this "serious incident." Also I was skeptical when he summed up his account with "Whatever." But anyway, this is a bad look for both Ryan and the swimmers who went along with the story.

If I were the USA federation, I'd definitely give them a suspension. They're representing the country, and they pee all over the gas station and make up a fake robbery report? 

[calliope1975]

While I don't believe that any individual traveling abroad is a representative of their country and how their countrymen are as a whole, the Olympics are kinda the one event where you do represent your country, and your behavior is important. I don't think anyone should be extradited or detained, but damages should be assessed and reparations made. Plus, whatever association governs the swimmers should definitely sanction or penalize those guys.

Damn, what a bunch of idiots. It's a shame because this will overshadow the legit problems others experienced. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by calliope1975

[FormerMod-a1]

Let me see if I have the facts straight, and please correct me if I don't.  This is real high level, too, just trying to get to the main points:

• Ryan Lochte and some other swimmers left a party and ended up at a gas station
• While at the station they behaved like drunken, privileged. idiots - peeing on things and breaking at least one thing, if not more
• Policeman (off duty?, who happened to be there?) and store owner tried to/did get them to stop
• Some of the swimmers did give the owner some money to cover the damages
• They return to Olympic village
• Ryan lies to mom to explain the missing money
• Mom goes to the press
• Everything explodes

So...  no police report filed? damages were already paid? but Brazil still confiscated passports, all because a grown ass man could tell his mom that "We were drunk, we were stupid, we paid for it, so now I'm low on cash".   

ETA: Don't get me wrong, I understand Brazil and the police being upset about this lie, I'm just trying to outline things.

[catray]

This whole thing has spiraled way out of control for what should be a minor incident-- breaking a door (while probably drunk) is bad behavior at any time, but if they had just been honest from the start and actually fessed up, then they could have apologized, paid for damages and been on their way. Now it's an international incident. It's the Olympics and they are representing the US and should be held accountable... definitely not written off as "(white) kids being kids" especially because they are all adults, not 15 yr olds!