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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
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Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

It would be really sad if Jinger hopped from one cult to another. The way I see it is most of the married Duggar adults attend churches different from their parents. From Fundy to more mainstream uber conservative. As far as I know, all their churches teach hate and are somewhat fear based. So to me its not about the church Jinger attends.

As of 2023, Jinger is the only Duggar to say the faith based way her parents raised her was wrong. Jinger is the only Duggar to say its okay to not blindly obey their parents and their faith if it feels wrong.

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Girl in a Cardigan

Girl in a Cardigan

1 hour ago, Stevie Nicks said:

This is from her Instagram. The pants look like they are wrinkled. And her smug expression. 

orca-image-2116997050.jpeg

What I really want to know was how long she spent artfully displaying the select pieces of dirty laundry on the side of the hamper. Especially whatever that thin red thing is (you know, for a pop of color in their sad, grey closet). 

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AstridM

AstridM

5 hours ago, merylinkid said:

I can see them using a prop house.   In this day and age, you don't really want to put your real house out there.   Folks will use the slightest clue like the garbage truck rolling by and the angle of the sun to figure out where your house is.   then just show up.   

I can see Jinger being nervous.   This is her "big break" from her upbringing.   She knows it won't be received well.   

We who had choices growing up and we not abused like she was, never allowed an independent thought, think she should be doing more.    But this is someone who went from thinking she would be killed in a car accident because she was going to do something fun WITH HER FAMILY instead of staying home and reading her bible.   No wonder she had anxiety.   Can you imagine always being worried about what would happen if you happened to guess wrong what God (Jim bob) really wanted you to do?   The fact she is even going to fundie lite and THINKING about giving her kids' choices she never had is a HUGE step.   The Duggar kids and the Rods kids are not going to suddenly bust out and go wild, becoming atheists and dressing in tube tops and short shorts.   They are going to take what seem to us to be very minor steps.   But are HUGE when you consider how constrained they were to take ANY steps on out of their cages.   Now the next generation?    Expect major secularism.   The next generation after that - you won't even be able to tell they were once fundie (although some will stay that way always).  

I’m not sure I’d call Mcarthur’s cruel and controlling brand of religion “fundie lite” though. I wonder how much she’ll share about the specifics in the actual book. 

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

I know people like to say Jinger left one cult for another, but it's more like she left a cult to a very conservative evangelical church.  They do not hold liberal views for sure, but the differences are vital to really understanding the moves she's made.  She has changed the foundation of her theology and recognized that she can change it again as she grows in understanding.  She now knows that she can determine what she believes.  One thing to me that is interesting is that she almost didn't marry Jeremy because of theological differences and those differences caused Jim Bob much heart burn.  In the book she's apparently giving Ben the credit for beginning her transition.  

But will she truly lay out the specifics of MacArthur’s theology in the book?

2 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

I'm kind of torn on the cult aspect.  I took a class in sects and cults when I was in college and the first order of business was defining what was a cult.  The definition can get quite broad.  Early Christianity was a cult offshoot of the Jewish faith.

Why I'm torn about the cult aspect is that it is well documented that McArthur does not tolerate dissent at all.  Many people have been banished for even minor disagreements with him.  So while Jinger has reevaluated her faith, if she reevaluates away from what McArthur and Jeremy want, she will have serious problems.  I'm glad she at least gets to leave behind the anxiety of thinking that God is going to zap her any minute, but I don't believe her deconstruction is going to go any farther than what it is now.

Exactly. Isn’t she now essentially a Calvinist? So she believes in predestination? I want to see the details laid out. 

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AstridM

AstridM

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I also did mention trading one cult for another when describing the waitlist for Jinger's book in a very liberal city like Portland.  The further you are from organized religion, the more conservative Christian churches read as cults. 

Exactly this. I consider all religions cults in some ways. That’s just me. 🤷‍♀️

2 hours ago, Stevie Nicks said:

This is from her Instagram. The pants look like they are wrinkled. And her smug expression. 

orca-image-2116997050.jpeg

Ugh. That smug expression makes her very punchable. Just stop it.

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Absolom

Absolom

38 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Exactly this. I consider all religions cults in some ways. That’s just me. 🤷‍♀️

That's the issue.  There are gradients in religious belief and while I do understand that some people (including my departed husband so I really do get it) consider all religion a cult.  Thus we need different vocabulary to discuss the gradients or degrees.  By some definitions all religion could be considered a cult.  But the extreme fundies like IBLP are different from MacArthur and his group which are also different from mainline Christianity.  

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

3 hours ago, Stevie Nicks said:

This is from her Instagram. The pants look like they are wrinkled. And her smug expression. 

orca-image-2116997050.jpeg

The pants do look little wrinkled, but I think the outfit is cute. I would wear that to work (in a color palette more flattering for my personal skin tone) but a sweater, business casual pants, flesh toned heels can be found all over my office in once the dead of winter is over. She looks cute. I love sweaters with interesting textures. I wish I could wear heels that high, but alas I cannot!

  • Like 16
lascuba

lascuba

 

On 1/24/2023 at 3:06 PM, Salacious Kitty said:

Apparently the title is biblical, although she acknowledges that she's aware of Free Jinger.

I don't believe for a second that the title isn't a direct reference to Free Jinger; she's just hiding behind a convenient biblical reference. There's no pundit on earth who wouldn't sell their soul for such a pitch perfect dog whistle.

15 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I took a look at the clip of her prep and photo shot on the beach.  I think she looked good.  Isn’t her accent different than it used to be?  Also, she did look a little awkward, which is surprising since she’s been on tv and posing for many years.  And, I’m just curious as to why they photographed her at the beach house and not the house she really lives and why the beach?  Is she a beach person?  Maybe, I’m not familiar with the theme of her book.  

I could see the beach being used as a symbol of her newfound "freedom."

3 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

I'm kind of torn on the cult aspect.  I took a class in sects and cults when I was in college and the first order of business was defining what was a cult.  The definition can get quite broad.  Early Christianity was a cult offshoot of the Jewish faith.

 

I come from the view that the only real difference between religions and cults is that religions are old enough to have some plausible deniability, which is why--apart from my petty glee over what (I hope) JB/M might feel about it--I can't be too impressed with Jinger. I've learned a lot from many here, so I do see that this kind of change is a huge deal among her circles, but for me, it's just not something worth using the word "freedom." (Though, again A++ for the marketing savvy. Seriously, MacArthur needs to be forever grateful at the gift that Jinger's adolescent eyerolls has brought him.)

3 hours ago, SMama said:

Eunuch Ben led Jinger to question JB’s and Michelle’s legalistic BS. Ironic how he can’t work that magic with his own wife. I guess the difference is Jinger actually listened to him.

 

I wonder if Ben is just another version of the pants thing, where pants wearing stopped being a big deal to the family at large long before everyone but Michelle started wearing them publicly. Ben talked about his views before marrying Jessa...I remember discussions about that on the boards and what that might mean. I don't want to imply that JB and Michelle are at all open minded about anything, but it does make me think that Jinger's book isn't the bombshell for them that many of us are hoping it is. A lot of their "convictions" became nothing but set dressing for the show while they gave them up privately. I can easily imagine the IBLP trappings being included in that. Assuming Jinger couches the horrors of her IBLP upbringings in terms sympathetic to her parents (they were also brainwashed, blah blah blah), it's possible that the only reason they'll be upset over the book is because of the speculation it's stirring up as opposed to its contents.

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Absolom

Absolom

20 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I've learned a lot from many here, so I do see that this kind of change is a huge deal among her circles, but for me, it's just not something worth using the word "freedom." (Though, again A++ for the marketing savvy. Seriously, MacArthur needs to be forever grateful at the gift that Jinger's adolescent eyerolls has brought him.)

A big Amen to the marketing plan.

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libgirl2

libgirl2

39 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

The pants do look little wrinkled, but I think the outfit is cute. I would wear that to work (in a color palette more flattering for my personal skin tone) but a sweater, business casual pants, flesh toned heels can be found all over my office in once the dead of winter is over. She looks cute. I love sweaters with interesting textures. I wish I could wear heels that high, but alas I cannot!

My days of heels are over. I never thought I would see the day. 

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AstridM

AstridM

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

The pants do look little wrinkled, but I think the outfit is cute. I would wear that to work (in a color palette more flattering for my personal skin tone) but a sweater, business casual pants, flesh toned heels can be found all over my office in once the dead of winter is over. She looks cute. I love sweaters with interesting textures. I wish I could wear heels that high, but alas I cannot!

The way she has her sweater tucked in looks odd to me.

Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

3 minutes ago, AstridM said:

The way she has her sweater tucked in looks odd to me.

Jinger is parroting what's she has seen other people do on Instagram.  That quasi-French tuck is normally done to highlight a ridiculously priced designer belt like Gucci or Hermes.  It does look odd when Jinger is wearing some random belt that does not look to serve any real purpose other than poking a hole into her sweater.  Also why is she wearing a belt that is 2 sizes too big for her? 

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leighdear

leighdear

The French tuck of the sweater is THE look on Instagram.  It's everywhere if you're under 40. I think that's a great color for her and she can pull that look off easily.  And unless you wear 100% polyester, those skinny chinos are gonna wrinkle a bit.  

I pre-ordered the book, no big deal.  I'm interested in what she has to say, though not obsessed like some. People can judge me for spending the money, I don't give a crap. 

People assume so much without any basis other than personal bias, so I'm going to read her words before I judge her decisions.  

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AstridM

AstridM

56 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Jinger is parroting what's she has seen other people do on Instagram.  That quasi-French tuck is normally done to highlight a ridiculously priced designer belt like Gucci or Hermes.  It does look odd when Jinger is wearing some random belt that does not look to serve any real purpose other than poking a hole into her sweater.  Also why is she wearing a belt that is 2 sizes too big for her? 

Yeah, she doesn’t need a belt at all. 

SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

(edited)

I’m a little embarrassed, because I have that look sometimes, though not as a fashion statement.  I wear my insulin pump on my waistband and regularly have to read it, adjust it, manipulate it, etc…..oh well, I’m definitely over 40!  Lol. 
 

Did Jinger spend time with the Duggars this past holiday season?  

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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auntieminem

auntieminem

(edited)

Jinger just dropped bits of an interview where she explains disentangling and figuring out the crazy that Gothard was teaching. There is a link to the whole interview which I will check out tomorrow.  I am feeling a bit better about Jinger's book even if she is still way more conservative than I have ever been. 

ETA: Here is the podcast.   https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relatable-with-allie-beth-stuckey/id1359249098?i=1000596623691

Also, this is a very conservative podcaster. Not sure how that impacts the interview but wanted to warn you so you can skip if you want. 

Edited by auntieminem
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lascuba

lascuba

I came across a video on twitter last night from an ex-fundie who talked about Jinger's move from IBLP to MacArthur. She had made a similar transition while following her abusive husband's lead, and one thing she said that stuck with me is that it was just as controlling but with more modern clothes. She also mentioned something about "tulip" theology which I haven't heard of before but it has something to do with Calvinism. I can't find the video now but I'll look for it and try to link it here.

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auntieminem

auntieminem

This little snippet of the interview is interesting in how crazy Gothard's rules are yet all these people believe him.  https://www.instagram.com/p/Cn3D5hsNepA/

I cannot imagine how scary it was for her to let go of IBLP teachings. Even though she probably had lots of fun times as child, what a burden for a child to be in fear of breaking rules all the time.  I hope she continues to question and adjust her beliefs.  But this may be as far as she goes, it is still a better place than where she was. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

46 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I came across a video on twitter last night from an ex-fundie who talked about Jinger's move from IBLP to MacArthur. She had made a similar transition while following her abusive husband's lead, and one thing she said that stuck with me is that it was just as controlling but with more modern clothes. She also mentioned something about "tulip" theology which I haven't heard of before but it has something to do with Calvinism. I can't find the video now but I'll look for it and try to link it here.

Google says:

The theology of Calvinism has been immortalized in the acronym TULIP, which states the five essential doctrines of total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints.

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zoomama

zoomama

i have watched a lot of tia's videos and i think she is very interesting. as far as jinger and the church she now attends, i am of mixed feelings. i have participated in a study group using one of the pastors books and found it to be very helpful. that said, i dont know a lot about their particular church. so, is she still in a cultish place? i truly dont know.

Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

1 minute ago, Gemma Violet said:

I've never heard of her so I have no idea of what she's like, but in this interview Jinger did 95% of the talking, so there was minimal ABS.  I enjoyed the interview.

I can't go into why she's so pukeworthy, as it violates board rules. But suffice it to say that she's a dangerous little shit. 

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lascuba

lascuba

I read a summary of that interview and apparently Jinger talked about having had an eating disorder--which was speculated for years--and that Michelle helped her out of it.

Also, she told a story about how as a child she was so anxious about making god happy that she told she JB she needed to stay in her room and pray and he told her no, go out and play. Someone used the phrase "religious OCD" to describe Jinger's behavior and so far it seems pretty accurate.

I'm becoming more convinced that this book isn't going to have any kind of negative impact on Jinger's relationship with her family.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

18 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I read a summary of that interview and apparently Jinger talked about having had an eating disorder--which was speculated for years--and that Michelle helped her out of it.

Also, she told a story about how as a child she was so anxious about making god happy that she told she JB she needed to stay in her room and pray and he told her no, go out and play. Someone used the phrase "religious OCD" to describe Jinger's behavior and so far it seems pretty accurate.

I'm becoming more convinced that this book isn't going to have any kind of negative impact on Jinger's relationship with her family.

I'm going to guess JB&M have known about the general flavor of the book for a while now. I'm also going to guess Jinger was likely able to come to some kind of peace with Michelle, but not so much with JB.

Jinger has said the book is not a "tell-all" and she seems to care deeply about her parents, but she also knows she is telling the public she had struggles because of the way JB&M raised her. I have no doubt the book is not written in a hateful way, but... saying JB told her to go out and play doesn't erase the fact that he (&M) is why she was struggling. 

IMO, the book needn't be a vengeful book to get its point across.

 

 

  • Like 18
lascuba

lascuba

44 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm going to guess JB&M have known about the general flavor of the book for a while now. I'm also going to guess Jinger was likely able to come to some kind of peace with Michelle, but not so much with JB.

Jinger has said the book is not a "tell-all" and she seems to care deeply about her parents, but she also knows she is telling the public she had struggles because of the way JB&M raised her. I have no doubt the book is not written in a hateful way, but... saying JB told her to go out and play doesn't erase the fact that he (&M) is why she was struggling. 

IMO, the book needn't be a vengeful book to get its point across.

 

 

Yes, but I really don't think Jinger or anyone else in those circles is analyzing it in that light. Like I said in a previous post, JB's going to be upset that the general public will read it that way, and likely isn't thrilled that Jinger's book is stirring that up, but I can't see him feeling that strongly about Jiinger's new beliefs and what she thinks about the ones she grew up with.

JB is both really sincere in his batshit religious views while also easily discarding  beliefs that no longer serve his financial and social goals. Fundies as a whole have gradually shifted to more "wordly" appearances and behaviors that were unimaginable for them not that long ago, because their leaders see the writing on the wall and know that it behooves them to look more mainstream if they're ever going to stop bleeding followers. Calvinism has long infiltrated all the various sects. JB allowed two Calvinists to date and eventually marry his daughters. All his daughters wear pants; some of the adults think nothing of posing videos of their kids dancing to music with a beat. The only adult child JB has a problem with is Jill, and that's only because her husband made him hand over money.

All those evolving convictions are tacit acknowledgements that they were all wrong and struggling with their previous beliefs to some extent. It's trickier for the Duggars  because those beliefs became their shtick, so they held on to them publicly much longer that they probably did privately (there's a picture of a teenage Jinger wearing pants in the TTH), but at this point, I think even JB has demonstrated that he knows IBLP is largely nonsense. Jinger will give him and Michelle the victim edit, and the only ones who won't buy it are those of us who are already inclined to put the blame and JB/M where it belongs.
 

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laurakaye

laurakaye

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4 hours ago, BetyBee said:

Jeremy is either the worst photographer in the world or he is perverse and loves to post bad pics of his cute wife. Maybe he's jealous because his best days appearance-wise are in the past. 

I picture Jeremy trying to slither all stealth-like into frame during Jinger's photoshoots, only to have the photographer tell him, "Sir, can you move?  We only want Jinger."

And then he moodily goes to play with his shoe collection and pouts.

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BetyBee

BetyBee

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

Jinger will give him and Michelle the victim edit, and the only ones who won't buy it are those of us who are already inclined to put the blame and JB/M where it belongs.
 

Well said! I think JB especially is responsible, since Meech stopped thinking for herself long ago. I believe that if she'd never married him, she'd probably be living a pretty mainstream life. JB is a huge control freak and a very awkward human being in general. He was always going to fail at the important things in life, while being successful at lining his own pockets. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I think this book might make some of JB&M's cohorts squirm a bit. There are plenty of uber Fundies that don't want their kids thinking there are other choices. I'm almost certain JB&M don't want the Lost Girls thinking there are other choices.

To me, labelling JB&M as victims emphasizes their role in creating Jinger's struggles. I'm okay with that. They may think they're saying Jinger is an ungrateful child and should appreciate the way she was raised, but what they're also saying is JB&M raised Jinger that way, so they are the ones to blame - not Gothard.

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AstridM

AstridM

1 hour ago, SnapHappy said:

With all the insults pointed towards almost every pic Jinger takes of Jeremy that gets posted here, I'd say they're equal in sucky picture taking.  

Neither takes nor posts very good photos of each other.  And that actually goes for every other family member.

It is quite pathetic, especially given that Jinger once claimed to be the “family photographer.” 🤣

13 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think this book might make some of JB&M's cohorts squirm a bit. There are plenty of uber Fundies that don't want their kids thinking there are other choices. I'm almost certain JB&M don't want the Lost Girls thinking there are other choices.

To me, labelling JB&M as victims emphasizes their role in creating Jinger's struggles. I'm okay with that. They may think they're saying Jinger is an ungrateful child and should appreciate the way she was raised, but what they're also saying is JB&M raised Jinger that way, so they are the ones to blame - not Gothard.

True, aren’t all of the lost girls still wearing skirts only?

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Gemma Violet

Gemma Violet

In the video, Jinger says that she previously believed that all sorts of birth control were abortion.  The interviewer asked if she meant all forms, not just hormonal (the pill).  Jinger said yes, all forms and that she thought she was going to eventually have 19 children.  This mindset kind of explains Jessa, Kendra, etc. having one after another.    

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

5 hours ago, lascuba said:

I read a summary of that interview and apparently Jinger talked about having had an eating disorder--which was speculated for years--and that Michelle helped her out of it.

Also, she told a story about how as a child she was so anxious about making god happy that she told she JB she needed to stay in her room and pray and he told her no, go out and play. Someone used the phrase "religious OCD" to describe Jinger's behavior and so far it seems pretty accurate.

I'm becoming more convinced that this book isn't going to have any kind of negative impact on Jinger's relationship with her family.

Jinger wrote about the ED in her book with Jeremy. Nothing new there. 

I assume JB had to tell her it was okay to play or whatever because he was her umbrella of authority. I wonder if Jinger ever shared this anxiety with her parents? She seems to have suffered a lot of anxiety. I wonder if this is common within the IBLP? I mean, they rule with fear, so I imagine being raised that way is hell. 

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AstridM

AstridM

23 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

In the video, Jinger says that she previously believed that all sorts of birth control were abortion.  The interviewer asked if she meant all forms, not just hormonal (the pill).  Jinger said yes, all forms and that she thought she was going to eventually have 19 children.  This mindset kind of explains Jessa, Kendra, etc. having one after another.    

The “mindset” shows that they weren’t taught much science/biology. 🥲

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cm-soupsipper
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Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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