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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
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Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

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jcbrown

jcbrown

9 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

She speaks of religion made by men. What does she think Johnny Mac's church is?

I assume uses "men" to mean "humans" and is blind to what @Churchhoney pointed out, that she has traded one form of patriarchal bullshit for a slightly different flavor of same.

6 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

According to JM, the God of his bible made it completely clear that he only speaks through properly trained MEN. And therefore it's wrong to allow men who are being trained to be God's ventriloquist dummies to have any educaitonal input from any of these God-said-they're-by-nature-unqualitied females. (I guess the fact that a woman was "instructing" them in some way would confuse them about who God meant to be wholly and entirely in charge?)

Anyway.....As if a God of the entire universe who was worth anything would make up this crap any more than he'd make up Gothard's crap.

But Jer Vuolo says this came straight from God so I guess JIngle has left JB and cleft (cleaved? cloven?)..

It's sickening that she's been used as a ventroquilist's dummy not for one awful group of these misogynists but for two different ones.....And somehow she thinks she/s some kind of book author and has something to look smug and dreamy about....

.I hope something alerts her daughters to the facts at some point in their lives....But they're definitely starting out with obstacles to having any autonomy 

I agree with everything you said but the bolded made me laugh. Overall, quite sad and on the nose, but I do love the turn of phrase. And yes, their poor daughters.

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

15 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

I assume uses "men" to mean "humans" and is blind to what @Churchhoney pointed out, that she has traded one form of patriarchal bullshit for a slightly different flavor of same.

I agree with everything you said but the bolded made me laugh. Overall, quite sad and on the nose, but I do love the turn of phrase. And yes, their poor daughters.

No, when I said men, I meant males. Patriarchy and all that bullshit. Churchie just expounded on my thought. 😊

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crazycatlady58

crazycatlady58

6 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

She's rejected her former patriarchal brainwashing for a new brand of equally patriarchal brainwashing (which comes with a guarantee that IT'S the CORRECT FORM! -- i.e., the one that God himself invvented.....just like Gothard's did, of course.)

According to JM, everything he and pastors trained correcly say (i.e., pastors he's trained, mostly) comes DIRECTLY through their mouths FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD HIMSELF, who pours his exact words into their brains so they can talk them.

Not even kidding. That's exactly what he teaches. And it's the reason why women aren't allowed to have any instructional roles in his seminary, even to teach something as apparently God's-mouth-not-directly-needed subjects like Greek grammar or something. 

According to JM, the God of his bible made it completely clear that he only speaks through properly trained MEN. And therefore it's wrong to allow men who are being trained to be God's ventriloquist dummies to have any educaitonal input from any of these God-said-they're-by-nature-unqualitied females. (I guess the fact that a woman was "instructing" them in some way would confuse them about who God meant to be wholly and entirely in charge?)

Anyway.....As if a God of the entire universe who was worth anything would make up this crap any more than he'd make up Gothard's crap.

But Jer Vuolo says this came straight from God so I guess JIngle has left JB and cleft (cleaved? cloven?)..

It's sickening that she's been used as a ventroquilist's dummy not for one awful group of these misogynists but for two different ones.....And somehow she thinks she/s some kind of book author and has something to look smug and dreamy about....

.I hope something alerts her daughters to the facts at some point in their lives....But they're definitely starting out with obstacles to having any autonomy 

When a pastor says that a man should not be taught by a woman or have a woman in power over him I always want to ask about Deborah, a woman judge in the Old Testament,  I don't because it would not do any good they would not change their views no more than when you talk about drinking wine. It's not so much that I think they should agree with me it's that they cannot even for a moment open their mind to see another viewpoint. 

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andromeda331

andromeda331

3 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

When a pastor says that a man should not be taught by a woman or have a woman in power over him I always want to ask about Deborah, a woman judge in the Old Testament,  I don't because it would not do any good they would not change their views no more than when you talk about drinking wine. It's not so much that I think they should agree with me it's that they cannot even for a moment open their mind to see another viewpoint. 

I've always wondered how they explained Deborah being a judge and a general who lead an army in war and won. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I still say kudos to Jinger. She was the first to move away from her parents' teachings way back when she first used birth control out of the gate and wore pants and now she's willing to put in writing Gothard was complete bullshit. No other Duggar has come close to saying or doing anything like this.

The next closest in Jill, who wore pants a couple years into her marriage and used birth control after Sammy, but still very much supports the way she was raised, including much of Gothard's schtick.

Jana, Jessa and Joy wear pants, but as far as I can tell, they're still fully in the Gothard fold.

So it seems to me every Duggar and Duggar inlaw still practice hateful faiths, but Jinger is the only one to have the balls to say JB & M did it wrong.

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farmgal4

farmgal4

13 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

So not only does Jinger have trouble pronouncing her own daughter’s name, but she also struggles to pronounce “Jesus.” 🤦‍♀️🤣

I had never noticed it before, but Jinger does sound like she has a slight speech impediment.  I think she pronounces “Jesus” just like Jill Rod does.

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Nysha

Nysha

19 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

When a pastor says that a man should not be taught by a woman or have a woman in power over him I always want to ask about Deborah, a woman judge in the Old Testament...

Deborah doesn't count because she was in the Old Testament and Paul's words are from the New Testament and are correct for xtians. A lot of evangelical xtians follow Paul more closely than Jesus.

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sagittarius sue

sagittarius sue

2 hours ago, Nysha said:

Deborah doesn't count because she was in the Old Testament and Paul's words are from the New Testament and are correct for xtians. A lot of evangelical xtians follow Paul more closely than Jesus.

A few weeks ago I did some investigating into what Paul said in his letters, particularly in Timothy, and came across some great stuff from a Franciscan, but I can't seem to find it now  To summarize it he said that Paul's letters weren't intended to be gospel,  In many cases they were letters dealing with individual congregational problems.  Also, much of what Paul said was revised, and that Timothy isn't considered to be from Paul as it was written 100 years later.  Initially people thought that Jesus would return any day, so the church was quite free with women in high positions, preaching, etc.  After 100 years they figured that they had to set up a structured church, the patriarchy came back in full force, and Paul's words were revised.  Of course fundies would say that's blasphemy.

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andromeda331

andromeda331

6 hours ago, Nysha said:

Deborah doesn't count because she was in the Old Testament and Paul's words are from the New Testament and are correct for xtians. A lot of evangelical xtians follow Paul more closely than Jesus.

True. It still blows my mind. It's not as if His message was complicated compared to other messages in the Bible but still Jesus is the very type of person and message that they hate. 

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SnapHappy

SnapHappy

I think the book is going to be big. 

Not necessarily NY Times Bestseller list big, but definitely fundie-world big.  Bigger than any of the other books, certainly. 

She's the first to truly go outside the norms, so even ordinary folks are curious what she has to say.  She says it's not a tell-all, but there is obviously things that will come out to slap down Gothard doctrine.  

I can see her possibly going on Kelly Clarkson's NBC show, if she does any TV media appearances.  No GMA or ABC shows, as they have a long history with the OG Duggars. 

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Liddy52

Liddy52

(edited)
17 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

A few weeks ago I did some investigating into what Paul said in his letters, particularly in Timothy, and came across some great stuff from a Franciscan, but I can't seem to find it now  To summarize it he said that Paul's letters weren't intended to be gospel,  In many cases they were letters dealing with individual congregational problems.  Also, much of what Paul said was revised, and that Timothy isn't considered to be from Paul as it was written 100 years later.  Initially people thought that Jesus would return any day, so the church was quite free with women in high positions, preaching, etc.  After 100 years they figured that they had to set up a structured church, the patriarchy came back in full force, and Paul's words were revised.  Of course fundies would say that's blasphemy.

Some of this is new and interesting information to me. However, I have heard on multiple occasions that indeed, each of Paul's epistles were letters to individual churches that he had a history with. And each of the letters was talking about specific situations in that specific church. For example the "the women should be silent" part was supposedly addressing an issue in that specific church where several woman were causing some problems.  So, as it was explained to me, Paul was only talking about those specific women, not all women. Of course I belong to a denomination that allows women to be pastors, elders, teach in their seminaries and be the moderator for the entire denomination.  So Johnny Mac and Jeremy and Jim Bob would all proclaim us as heretics needing to be burned at the stake.

Edited by Liddy52
Typos and auto correct
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awaken

awaken

7 hours ago, Notabug said:

Yep, pretty much.  She kinda drags out the second syllable.  She pronounces Jesus the way a lot of fundie preachers do as well as comedians parodying the genre.

6 hours ago, Absolom said:

Gee-SUUSSSS.  Emphasis on the second syllable, draw it out, and it ends with a hiss.  The rest of us accent the first syllable and don't draw out the second syllable. 

Dang it, now I’m going to have to listen to her speak just to hear this!  

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

I think she's copying her pronunciation from Jeremy.

I didn't listen to her audio, but what's being described sounds pretty similar to the pronunication of the name n New Testament Greek, (which I studied about a hundred years ago and which Jer recently "studied" although he never seemed to finish his coursework in the months allotted.....lol) ......

Using that pronunciation on a daily basis would be fully in line with Jer's pseudo-intellectual pomposity. Constantly demonstrating how much better he is than everybody else. How thrilling to be set apart from others because you casually emphasize the second syllable to subtly demonstrate that you know something esoteric -- and oh so important! -- that others don't know!

When he's not demonstrating his superiority by being (clumsily) trendy, he's deonstrating it by being clumsily pompous. 

So -- as usual...not something specifically Jingleish, since I'm pretty sure she's never studied Greek. Just another thing in which she's mimicking her headship.

"Jeremy loves books, so I love books. (Except he doesn't REALLY love books so I don't really lovev books either!)"

Edited by Churchhoney
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Cinnabon

Cinnabon

5 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I think she's copying her pronunciation from Jeremy.

I didn't listen to her audio, but what's being described sounds pretty similar to the pronunication of the name n New Testament Greek, (which I studied about a hundred years ago and which Jer recently "studied" although he never seemed to finish his coursework in the months allotted.....lol) ......

Using that pronunciation on a daily basis would be fully in line with Jer's pseudo-intellectual pomposity. Constantly demonstrating how much better he is than everybody else. How thrilling to be set apart from others because you casually emphasize the second syllable to subtly demonstrate that you know something esoteric -- and oh so important! -- that others don't know!

When he's not demonstrating his superiority by being (clumsily) trendy, he's deonstrating it by being clumsily pompous. 

So -- as usual...not something specifically Jingleish, since I'm pretty sure she's never studied Greek. Just another thing in which she's mimicking her headship.

"Jeremy loves books, so I love books. (Except he doesn't REALLY love books so I don't really lovev books either!)"

It’s all just so pathetic. She is pathetic. 

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sagittarius sue

sagittarius sue

(edited)
1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I noticed that they had to announce the pronunciation as uh-gus-tin. Pretentious much? 

I'm sure it won't be too long until he's called Augie.

ETA I'm quite fond of Augie.  I went to Augsburg College (now University) in Mpls, and our athletic teams were Auggies.  We referred to our school as Auggie Tech.

Edited by sagittarius sue
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BetyBee

BetyBee

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

And now I have this earworm Oh Du Lieber Augustin. And, I'm going to pronounce it aw-gus-teen. 

There is a huge difference in style between Baylah and Augustine. I wonder which one Cade came up with.

Well, Cade didn't name his son Spurgeon, so he's doing better than another fundie dad I can think of. Augie is a cute nickname. 

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Dehumidifier

Dehumidifier

2 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I noticed that they had to announce the pronunciation as uh-gus-tin. Pretentious much? 

If I was referring to the city I would say aw-gus-teen, but if I was referring to the actual saint I would say uh-gus-tin because that is the way it would have been pronounced in religion class and I assume would have been the way the actual man would have said it.

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Zella

Zella

4 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Caesar Augustus aka Octavian Emperor of Rome.

I keep reading it as Augustus, which I'd never personally name someone, but I do like the name thanks to my love for Roman history and Lonesome Dove. Augustine seems like they're just being so performative, along the same vein as Spurgeon, though not as overtly awful of a name. My apologies to anyone on this board who's named someone Augustine. 

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Twopper

Twopper

On 11/10/2022 at 11:18 PM, Zella said:

I keep reading it as Augustus, which I'd never personally name someone, but I do like the name thanks to my love for Roman history and Lonesome Dove. Augustine seems like they're just being so performative, along the same vein as Spurgeon, though not as overtly awful of a name. My apologies to anyone on this board who's named someone Augustine. 

My great grandfather who was an immigrant from Portugal was named Augusto which he changed to Augustus to sound more American. 
I have no plans to read her book, but I am eager to hear about any goodies she includes

Cinnabon

Cinnabon

2 hours ago, Mother of Odin said:

Why are we allowed to be hateful toward Jinger's religion?

Do you have any idea how hateful and abusive John McArthur and his teachings are?

https://julieroys.com/former-members-of-john-macarthurs-church-tell-of-whacker-culture-of-abuse/

2 hours ago, Mother of Odin said:

Doesn't that seem hypocritical? Aren't there people here acting hateful about Jinger's different beliefs?

She now follows McArthur. . . 
https://thewatchmanwakes.org/extraordinary-christian-testimonies-that-expose-john-macarthurs-church-as-a-mind-control-cult/

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

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I think its perfectly acceptable to disagree with, dislike or even hate certain beliefs. I don't agree with what Hitler believed. I don't agree with Klan beliefs. And I don't agree with Fundy beliefs.

The way I see it is, I don't believe I have the right to be the thought police, but I think its all our duty to be the misbehavior police. If Michelle is going to try to control who can use my bathroom, she now made her beliefs 'my' problem. If Derick is going to bully children on SM, he now made his beliefs 'my' problem. If Jessa is going make divisive posts calling all secular moms indulgent losers, she now made her beliefs 'my' problem.

So I will proudly go on record saying I disagree with, dislike and even hate a lot of what Jinger and the rest of the Duggar and Duggar adjacent clan believe and do.

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Dimi1

Dimi1

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I think its perfectly acceptable to disagree with, dislike or even hate certain beliefs. I don't agree with what Hitler believed. I don't agree with Klan beliefs. And I don't agree with Fundy beliefs.

The way I see it is, I don't believe I have the right to be the thought police, but I think its all our duty to be the misbehavior police. If Michelle is going to try to control who can use my bathroom, she now made her beliefs 'my' problem. If Derick is going to bully children on SM, he now made his beliefs 'my' problem. If Jessa is going make divisive posts calling all secular moms indulgent losers, she now made her beliefs 'my' problem.

So I will proudly go on record saying I disagree with, dislike and even hate a lot of what Jinger and the rest of the Duggar and Duggar adjacent clan believe and do.

I think she might mean..." Jingers beliefs" as compared to --we cannot mention other beliefs/religions ...  in relation to--- there are plenty of other religions who..." control who uses the bathroom", "bully children on social media" " call secular moms indulgent losers" etc...

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

6 minutes ago, Dimi1 said:

I think she might mean..." Jingers beliefs" as compared to --we cannot mention other beliefs/religions ...  in relation to--- there are plenty of other religions who..." control who uses the bathroom", "bully children on social media" " call secular moms indulgent losers" etc...

But these are the Duggar threads.

And just for the record other beliefs, including Catholicism, Scientology, LDS, etc, get called out during discussions here too, just not at the same frequency as as Fundyism, because again, the Duggars+ don't practice other religions.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

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(edited)
14 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Do you have any idea how hateful and abusive John McArthur and his teachings are?

https://julieroys.com/former-members-of-john-macarthurs-church-tell-of-whacker-culture-of-abuse/

She now follows McArthur. . . 
https://thewatchmanwakes.org/extraordinary-christian-testimonies-that-expose-john-macarthurs-church-as-a-mind-control-cult/

'The colorful letters were at the children’s height, but “they were being used as a way to train them to obey the parents rather than to go for their natural curiosity to a brightly colored object within their grasp and to play with it, this thing that’s obviously a toy.”'

Oh, look -- "blanket training" by another name. Stick a bunch of enticing colorful plastic alphabet magnets on your fridge at toddlers' eye leel, command the toddlers not to touch them, and then whack them with instruments when they do.

Because the children's own beings don't matter. All that matters is their parents' desire to control them completely.and in situations where there's no good reason to do so. (and where the parents are actually but unknowingly doing it because it's part of THEIR training to be good little cultists, wholly obedient to THEIR cult leader)

Lovely. 

THe thing that really bothers me about this is that Jingle's just transitioned here from one super-controlling, pseudo-intellectual cult invented by a power-hungry old fart to gain influence and money... to another, slightly different but mostly quite similar, super-controlling, pseudo-intellectual cult invented by a power-hungry old fart to gain influence and money. 

And she's been suckered into calling this completely lateral move "freedom." In the title of the SECOND book in which she's being used as a mouthpiece for an old-fart cult leader. Poor thing.

I hope one day she can somehow get out of this correct-Jesus-cultist merry-go-round she's riding in now. (and get her kids out). But that's especially hard for the meek to do, unfortunately. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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satrunrose

satrunrose

I almost hate this more than blanket training. MacArthur talks a good game about intellectualism and learning Greek and Hebrew, but is encouraging a child's early experience with letters to be associated with pain from a caregiver. How are you supposed to raise literate kids if they're conditioned that way?

Oh right, the point isn't literacy except for a chosen few (male) seminarians, 'cause cult. 

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cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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