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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

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AstridM

AstridM

9 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Could it be possible that the church is getting part of the profit from the sale of the book?

To me, it seems that the whole project/idea come from the church and I was wondering if they may have find a way to make money from it besides the publicity.

I’m sure this is the case.

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Notabug

Notabug

3 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Exactly. THIS is the kind of thing she should be questioned about.

And it is exactly the sort of thing she would never agree to be interviewed about, As others have said, Jinger's recent interviews have been PR work for her book. The platforms, interviewers and the questions themselves are carefully screened in advance and anything deemed the least bit controversial or provocative is either removed or she doesn't do the interview.

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sagittarius sue

sagittarius sue

35 minutes ago, Absolom said:

That's not how book announcement interviews go though.  If the interviewers blindside one author, they'll get no more interviewees.  

I can understand refusing to answer questions regarding MacArthur and GCC scandals, but it would be nice if anything contained in the book could be the basis for questions.

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quarks

quarks

On 2/11/2023 at 10:20 AM, satrunrose said:

The religious landscape where I am is really different, so I'm not sure, but would Jinger's message of "Leave a super-fundy evangelical sect and join a super-conservative evangelical sect (who still, in the-year-of-our-Lord 2023 thinks women and minorities should sit down and shut up)" be a huge and long-term  draw on the public-speaking circuit?

Possibly/probably not, but the "New York Times bestselling author" thing is. Jinger can leverage that for a speaking fee of $1500 and up, plus travel expenses. Once Jeremy has that doctorate and some sort of position at a small Christian college, they should be able to combine his credentials with her New York Times status for a few gigs per year at various conservative/Christian conferences.

I think the real problem for them isn't so much the message, but the reality that, at least based on these interviews, Jinger isn't a very engaging speaker, and may have problems getting invited back.

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Notabug

Notabug

(edited)
On 2/11/2023 at 10:20 AM, satrunrose said:

The religious landscape where I am is really different, so I'm not sure, but would Jinger's message of "Leave a super-fundy evangelical sect and join a super-conservative evangelical sect (who still, in the-year-of-our-Lord 2023 thinks women and minorities should sit down and shut up)" be a huge and long-term  draw on the public-speaking circuit?

It would only work with a small, but vocal, part of the populace.  Over 60 million Americans identify themselves as evangelical Christians in the US.  Not all of them are as conservative as MacArthur's specific branch; but even those who are not as misogynistic and homophobic as Jinger's sect would, in many cases, be more than happy to read her book and listen to her speak about the experiences that brought her under their umbrella.

Look at Jinger's parents and the Bates,  They are an even smaller minority of Americans and many of us have never even met anyone with their beliefs.  Meanwhile, many of us work with, attend school with and live in a neighborhood with people who consider themselves evangelicals.  Yet, Ma and Pa Duggar and the Bates managed to parlay their fringe beliefs into TV shows, books, social media and other platforms that seemingly still help them pay the bills decades later.

Edited by Notabug
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SnapHappy

SnapHappy

Quote

I think the book is going to be big. 

Not necessarily NY Times Bestseller list big, but definitely fundie-world big.  Bigger than any of the other books, certainly. 

She's the first to truly go outside the norms, so even ordinary folks are curious what she has to say.  She says it's not a tell-all, but there is obviously things that will come out to slap down Gothard doctrine.  

Well, I was certainly wrong. 

And regardless of who wrote what, who's "behind" the book, who's buying in bulk and what it's true purpose is, she's the first and only family member to have their name & image SOLELY on a book.  

That's still valuable currency in their world.

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kaleidoscope

kaleidoscope

The thing that struck me the most reading Jinger's book (thank you, library!) was how her family upbringing taught her to fear everything.  Jinger spent her first year of marriage fearful of people, and fearful of saying anything that would upset Jeremy.  She expressed no opinions because Jeremy might leave her.  Who can forget, "Jeremy likes books, so I like books?"  The mental torture alone is unconscionable.  Jinger still seems to be in the thick of it, but at least she is away from the Duggar compound.

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lookeyloo

lookeyloo

6 minutes ago, kaleidoscope said:

The thing that struck me the most reading Jinger's book (thank you, library!) was how her family upbringing taught her to fear everything.  Jinger spent her first year of marriage fearful of people, and fearful of saying anything that would upset Jeremy.  She expressed no opinions because Jeremy might leave her.  Who can forget, "Jeremy likes books, so I like books?"  The mental torture alone is unconscionable.  Jinger still seems to be in the thick of it, but at least she is away from the Duggar compound.

Interesting. I wonder if that got tiresome even for Jeremy who wanted a meek woman.  Yes dear goes only so far for some. 

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Meow Mix

Meow Mix

I remember reading an article by a woman who went whole hog on the submission stuff when she married.  She said that it didn't make her husband love her more, it only made him lose all respect for her because she wouldn't express an opinion on anything no matter how minor.  So, I can see even Jeremy getting tired of having the entire burden of their marriage on his shoulders.  

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AstridM

AstridM

10 minutes ago, Meow Mix said:

I remember reading an article by a woman who went whole hog on the submission stuff when she married.  She said that it didn't make her husband love her more, it only made him lose all respect for her because she wouldn't express an opinion on anything no matter how minor.  So, I can see even Jeremy getting tired of having the entire burden of their marriage on his shoulders.  

I read somewhere that JeremE compared her to a Stepford Wife, which made me laugh. I’m sure Jinger had no clue what he was referring to. 🤣

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

(edited)
33 minutes ago, AstridM said:

I read somewhere that JeremE compared her to a Stepford Wife, which made me laugh. I’m sure Jinger had no clue what he was referring to. 🤣

Yep. She admitted that Jeremy had to tell her what a Stepford Wife was. 

Edited by Salacious Kitty
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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

(edited)
4 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I wonder whether he made a Stepford wife sound like a bad thing? I could imagine certain stripes of fundie finding that to be the ideal (well, as long as it was steeped in the Je-sauce).

He said something to the effect of, "I don't want a Stepford Wife." I guess the sting was lessened when he had to gently explain what he wanted instead. 

Edited by Salacious Kitty
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AstridM

AstridM

58 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I just read a quote stating Amy said she knew Jinger was writing a book and she quantifies Jinger's post-cult success by the number of her followers.

  • I doubt Amy knew Jinger was writing a book
  • Jinger had her followers from the get go
  • Amy said the quiet part aloud - its all about fame and followers for Amy

It’s all about fame and followers for Jinjer, too. 

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BetyBee

BetyBee

36 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

He said something to the effect of, "I don't want a Stepford Wife." I guess the sting was lessened when he had to gently explain what he wanted instead. 

It sounds like ol' JereME didn't come off too bad in the book. Kind of patient and understanding. Why yes, it pains me to say so!

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Zella

Zella

(edited)
17 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

It sounds like ol' JereME didn't come off too bad in the book. Kind of patient and understanding. Why yes, it pains me to say so!

I have a hard time seeing Jeremy in those terms after the way he's behaved in other moments. I can't even begin to describe how angry his attitude during that Would You Rather game made me. 

That being said, though, I could see even him having the awareness that that moment was not the time to be an asshole, especially if he was already being driven crazy by her agreeing to everything. 

Still, though, what exactly did he expect when he married some sheltered girl from a fundie family? He and Derick both had more exposure to the real world and secular life than the other inlaws, and I've always found it creepy that they sought out partners who were so immature and sheltered rather than the more educated and independent women they were undoubtedly exposed to. It almost seems predatory to me. Is this a case of being careful what you wish for? I wanted a meek, compliant wife but not that meek and compliant. 

Edited by Zella
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

13 minutes ago, Zella said:

I have a hard time seeing Jeremy in those terms after the way he's behaved in other moments. I can't even begin to describe how angry his attitude during that Would You Rather game made me. 

That being said, though, I could see even him having the awareness that that moment was not the time to be an asshole, especially if he was already being driven crazy by her agreeing to everything. 

Still, though, what exactly did he expect when he married some sheltered girl from a fundie family? He and Derick both had more exposure to the real world and secular life than the other inlaws, and I've always found it creepy that they sought out partners who were so immature and sheltered rather than the more educated and independent women they were undoubtedly exposed to. It almost seems predatory to me. Is this a case of being careful what you wish for? I wanted a meek, compliant wife but not that meek and compliant. 

I'm going to guess Jeremy and Derick had no idea how sheltered and uneducated Jinger and Jill were. I'm also thinking all 4 of them had many periods of buyer's remorse during their first year. But all and all, they seem to be good fits, to a degree anyway.

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SMama

SMama

1 hour ago, BetyBee said:

It sounds like ol' JereME didn't come off too bad in the book. Kind of patient and understanding. Why yes, it pains me to say so!

It still doesn’t make up for his admission he “resented” Jinger for asking for a glass of water post partum. Only a certified asshole would think “why can’t she get it herself?” I’m petty that way. 😂

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floridamom

floridamom

I still blame 100% Jinger's parents for her anxiety and fear. Jinger said that she went to her parents with these fears, etc. They knew exactly what they did to her in drilling these beliefs in her head as she told them where she was with them. They did nothing, really, according to Jinger...they prayed with her at night. What the hell does that do for your daughter who is coming to you with paralyzing fear of living life when you are responsible? JB and Michelle didn't give a damn about Jinger or any of her siblings; they wanted to just continue with their "TV careers and the money it brought in". They sacrificed all of their children for it. Yes, great parents, they are NOT. 

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SMama

SMama

(edited)
9 minutes ago, floridamom said:

I still blame 100% Jinger's parents for her anxiety and fear. Jinger said that she went to her parents with these fears, etc. They knew exactly what they did to her in drilling these beliefs in her head as she told them where she was with them. They did nothing, really, according to Jinger...they prayed with her at night. What the hell does that do for your daughter who is coming to you with paralyzing fear of living life when you are responsible? JB and Michelle didn't give a damn about Jinger or any of her siblings; they wanted to just continue with their "TV careers and the money it brought in". They sacrificed all of their children for it. Yes, great parents, they are NOT. 

It was a no brainer for JB and Michelle, they got exactly what Gothard promised. Their children were literally afraid (doubt Jinger was the only one) of being struck down dead by god for the most innocuous things. That is how he still has most of them under his thumb to this day. It's why Jill, even though it was the last thing she wanted to do, went ahead to defend the FF with Megyn Kelly.  I don't care much for Derick but he saying it was coercion was not good enough. It was emotional blackmail. Those two reprehensible creatures were counting on Jill to break down, and they wanted those tears to keep the gravy train going. It doesn't matter how they hurt, re-victimized their daughter, they protected their golden penis, and got a spin off where JB and Michelle were the only financial beneficiaries.  

Edited by SMama
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satrunrose

satrunrose

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm going to guess Jeremy and Derick had no idea how sheltered and uneducated Jinger and Jill were. I'm also thinking all 4 of them had many periods of buyer's remorse during their first year. But all and all, they seem to be good fits, to a degree anyway.

I'm always going to side-eye Jeremy's wanting a meek wife, but one of the fundy home-fooling selling points is getting a kid who has memorized half the bible (a sure sign of intelligence for them) and has the rhetorical god-bothering skills to reduce an atheist to tears. That's certainly what the Duggars were trying to show with Per-pen-dic-u-lar and bankruptcy law. Now, watching as a critic, it's pretty easy to see that SODRT is a disaster, but as a young man who's mostly looking for a religiously acceptable lady, yeah, I can see missing the warning signs. 

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Red Fields

Red Fields

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I just read a quote stating Amy said she knew Jinger was writing a book and she quantifies Jinger's post-cult success by the number of her followers.

  • I doubt Amy knew Jinger was writing a book
  • Jinger had her followers from the get go
  • Amy said the quiet part aloud - its all about fame and followers for Amy

And Jinger is still in a cult. Just a slightly different one.

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Totally

Totally

I side eye Jinger’s claim of crippling fear, I mean I suppose she could have been putting on a front for the cameras, but Jinger has never come across as anxious 

I think I remember her doing a stint in a coffee shop for the show and she seem to cope a lot better than Jessa 

Maybe the ghost writer has taken some leeway to make the book more buyable 🤔

 

 

 

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Notabug

Notabug

11 minutes ago, Zella said:

I don't think she's writing for people looking for a way out. Her whole shtick now is about interpreting the Bible correctly. I think her target audience believes they are doing that already and will see this as a cautionary tale about what other people do wrong. 

I agree, this will allow MacArthur's followers to get confirmation that they believe in the right Jesus.  They may also try to use it as a recruiting tool to get younger members.  There are enough people out there who remember the show and never really delved too deeply into Duggardom who might read the book and decide Jinger has maybe found her way.

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SnapHappy

SnapHappy

13 hours ago, Totally said:

I side eye Jinger’s claim of crippling fear, I mean I suppose she could have been putting on a front for the cameras, but Jinger has never come across as anxious 

I think I remember her doing a stint in a coffee shop for the show and she seem to cope a lot better than Jessa 

Maybe the ghost writer has taken some leeway to make the book more buyable 🤔

In her book, she's made it absolutely clear that her performance on the show was exactly that.  An act.  Because her parents and their beliefs required it. So she obeyed.

And for the whole 4-7 minutes any of them ever got in an entire episode, how can anybody watching tell? 

Of course the editors are NEVER going to show the fear, the fights, the exasperation, the tantrums and the frustrations they HAD to have occasionally.  That stuff NEVER made it to the screen.  Because that was not the story they wanted to tell. 

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SMama

SMama

On Jinger’s IG she goes over the Gothard rules to be on the right side of god and the one that jumped at me was homeschooling. Jeremy was homeschooled until at least high school, but not sure how long. Have they decided to enroll their kids in public or private school? I don’t consider GCC’s upcoming “school” a real school. It would be interesting if they expanded on their educational plans for their children. 

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AstridM

AstridM

1 hour ago, SnapHappy said:

In her book, she's made it absolutely clear that her performance on the show was exactly that.  An act.  Because her parents and their beliefs required it. So she obeyed.

And for the whole 4-7 minutes any of them ever got in an entire episode, how can anybody watching tell? 

Of course the editors are NEVER going to show the fear, the fights, the exasperation, the tantrums and the frustrations they HAD to have occasionally.  That stuff NEVER made it to the screen.  Because that was not the story they wanted to tell. 

And I assume her online persona is exactly the same - an act. Because her headship requires it. 🤷‍♀️

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I don't doubt Jinger lived in fear but I don't think it was pervasive thinking. I'm sure she was fine most of the time, but the anxiety likely compounded as she was learning to be independent after she married. I'm guessing she still lives in fear because really that is what many religions teach. She's just found a degree of fear that is more comfortable to her.

Is Jing back with the orange foundation? Joy too. Both their faces look a completely different color than their hands.

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madpsych78

madpsych78

18 hours ago, Totally said:

I side eye Jinger’s claim of crippling fear, I mean I suppose she could have been putting on a front for the cameras, but Jinger has never come across as anxious 

I think I remember her doing a stint in a coffee shop for the show and she seem to cope a lot better than Jessa 

Maybe the ghost writer has taken some leeway to make the book more buyable 🤔

 

 

 

Not everyone who is anxious will outwardly show it. People mask.

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zoomama

zoomama

sadly, lots of backyards in the particular area they are in look similar to theirs. it is water restricted and very dry. and it the 'high desert' sort of area so extreme temps too. right now, freezing temps over night and sunny days. its hard to have grass in cali. and they bought a used house so the yard was probably not well cared for to begin with. give them a chance when we are not in such a drought -  they could so some amazing things with the yard later. 

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Absolom

Absolom

2 hours ago, Stevie Nicks said:

And the yard behind them looks dreadful. 

When they bought the house the "landscaping" was gravel with some paved areas and pots.  With all the rain, weeds have sprouted.  Someone needs to remove said weeds or they will have dead weeds shedding seeds.

I have never heard of an area that close to LA referred to as high desert.  It's standard inland southern California (dry Mediterranean).  

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cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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