S06.E10: The Winds of Winter

[BooBear]

1 hour ago, domina89 said:

I am there with you.  I can't get behind the Jon/Sansa pairing.  I just can't.  Too weird.  I would like to see Sansa with Tyrion, actually.  Lady Mormont is smart, loyal and is the master of the guilt trip.  Plus I think she has a little crush on Jon.  She is definitely worth the wait.

I also think she has a little crush. Jon I think you have a little fan there.

[Funzlerks]

I didn't feel that the show was portraying what she did was badass.  The music was haunting and melancholy and unlike anything else before.  The emotional impact was centered on characters we care about - Tommen and Maergery.  There were lingering shots of the crowd to show that Cersei killed innocent men, women, and children.  Shots made it clear that a lot of people in neighboring areas were killed.  Cersei after the explosion was surrounded by emptiness and quiet.

 I don't think the showrunners can be responsible for a knee jerk response against The High Sparrow and the Septa.  I am just amazed at the difference between the concerned handwringing last episode and this episode's cheering on of Cersei, not to mention Frey Pie.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Funzlerks

[nodorothyparker]

I'm not having a hell yeah moment over Cersei as much as being impressed that the show finally went there after years of softening her and pussyfooting around just how awful she is with the eternal "yes, but she really really loves her children" justification.  Cersei has complained forever about not being taken seriously as Tywin's true heir.  Well, now she is.  Her blowing up the sept to kill pretty much everyone who's who in Kings Landing is on par with Tywin's Rains of Castamere moment or his backstage orchestrating of the Red Wedding.

Edited June 27, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[MsChipper]

OK, I only just caught up with the episode due to time difference, and believe you me, it's been SO HARD not be spoiled!

Anyways, before I read through all 7 pages of forum talk, here goes my thoughts on the epi overall:

1. Immediate thoughts on the the opening scene had a very "this is the start of the end" feel to it. Boy, was I sure proven right a few minutes later.
2. As per many have foreshadowed, the second Cersei's cousin's got stabbed in that tunnel, I knew that dragon fire was coming. (Poor Grandma Tyrell were my first thoughts)
3. I don't like Septa lady, but I actually feel sorry for her when I saw what Cersei had in store for her. Yikes, ain't karma a bitch.
4. Poor Tommen. Choosing the only way to get back at his mother...So I guess this was Cersei's self fulfilling prophesy fulfilled.
5. Geez, 7 named characters dead and we're only almost halfway through. Is this a new record?
6. Shallow note: Jon's man bun is really growing on me. I'm really lovin' it.
7. Awwwww, loved that scene between Dany and Tyrion. Now I just need Jon onboard her team and I'm a happy direpup.
8. OMG, I WAS NOT EXPECTING ARYA TO BE THE ONE THAT KILLED FREY! Mmmmmm, vengence. So tasty. And that expression of peace and serenity from her. So awesome. I wonder if she'll go find her brother now, or skip Winterfell, continue solo, and finish up with all those on her list like Ash with the Pokemons (Gotta catch em all!)
9. OMG, FINALLY the whole R+L=J is confirmed! I can die happy now.
10. OMG, I have so much love for brave and wise little Lady Bear. She's tres awesome too. 
11. Wish I could slap/stab Little Finger. And I bet Sansa's wishing that too.
12. I hope Jamie realizes now how fucked he is, seeing Cersei up on that throne. Can't wait for Dany to kick her ass!
13. Woo, love those ships with dragon heads. And let the Great Games Begin!

Well, this episode got 3 OMGs from me (I think this is the first time ever, usually it's WTFs.). Considering how this episode started, the ending almost made the future feel rather hopeful.

Edited June 27, 2016 by MsChipper

[Violet Iris]

Was anybody else cringing as Jon was being proclaimed King of the North? Last time a Stark was proclaimed one it didn't end so well. No, no...please don't...don't call him that...please.

So hard to stay away from spoilers yesterday but I'm glad I did. It really was a fantastic episode. Well done show and thank you. Definitely rewatching this episode.

[Audreythe2nd]

15 minutes ago, Auntie Velvet said:

 

I know Cersei is not meant to be a classic heroine, but I'm a little dismayed by the universal online "Hell yeah!" about her revenge. I can still admire her even while wiping out enemies that the audience is fond of, but arranging to have the evil nun raped and tortured for days is hardly a Lemonade moment.   

 

Yeah, seriously. If Jaime was terrified from just seeing her crowned (and that was certainly the expression on his face), then I think we're supposed to be just a tad disturbed as well, lol.

[Alapaki]

7 minutes ago, annewithaneee said:

Cersei definitely unleashed the Mountain to rape the Septa, right? Or at least, that was part of what was on the misery menu? It turned my stomach, and I felt no catharsis with the "shame, shame, shame!" line Cersei delivered. 

Sansa, Dany, Yara, Lyanna Mormont etc have been delivering a lot of "whoooo empowerment!!" this season, which is a welcome change. However, if I'm reading this right and a character ordered a reanimated rapist-and-murderer to torture and rape a nun, that might make the top 10 most horrifying acts of sexual violence on this show even offscreen.

The fact that I was cheering Cersei on so heartily in that scene does give me a bit of pause.  

But Unella was such an insufferable bitch.

And I don't think Cersei was wrong about Unella getting personal satisfaction out of tormenting Cersei and not doing it for wholly holy reasons.

[Ambrosefolly]

6 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I agree about Jon.  Even if he were to discover his parents married and he's not a bastard, it will be a greater loss not to be Ned's son.  Jon has based his entire life around Ned.

Hopefully he can take comfort in everything Ned did to protect Jon, which includes betraying his best friend and lying to his wife. I wonder if Ned's over investment in honor, (which led to his death) might have been triggered by this. In one of Kit's interviews he talked about how Ygritte was the first person that Jon truly loved, even above Ned because he felt it wasn't a "loving" relationship, hopefully Jon Snow's outlook will change.

[Avaleigh]

36 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

Yeah, Lyanna is fun, but you have to be willing to buy into it without thinking to hard about it. I am willing.

What I wasn't fond of from Lyanna is that she supported Jon over Sansa. It's a small thing, but Lyanna should see that being a woman is no bar to being a strong leader. Yes, I know, there are reasons why people might prefer Jon over Sansa, and I'm not disagreeing, it's just that I thought little Lady Mormont might have a different perspective. (and if I buy that Jon would take Winterfell over Sansa because he's a warrior who can inspire people, then I have to take it on faith that he's OK taking it from Bran as well - I'll let it pass for the show)

I'm willing too. I love what the actress is bringing to the role and find it refreshing to have a capable child ruler for a change. 

Regarding Lyanna not supporting Sansa--

I don't see little Lyanna being the type to want to support someone simply because of their gender. Lyanna seems to look up to her mother's example and she says her mother was a great warrior. I'm sure she likes Sansa fine, but since Lyanna's been raised in a culture that encourages both men and women to be able to fight, I easily see her as thinking that Jon is the better option because of all of his military experience. Jon and Davos also give people practical reasons for why they should support House Stark, something that Sansa wasn't shown to do. In the one conversation we see between Sansa and Lyanna, Lyanna didn't seem impressed with Sansa at all. She didn't like what she felt was Sansa's insincere comment about her future beauty and she seemed unmoved by Sansa's insistence that she's still a Stark. Again, I'm not arguing at all that Lyanna dislikes Sansa, they might even go on to be real friends one day, but it isn't a mystery to me why this bad ass little girl wants the warrior to be their monarch in the North rather than the pretty girl who didn't particularly impress her during their first meeting. 

[MsChipper]

Oh, I forgot to mention one more thing:

Poor Uncle Benjen. Literally a dead man walking.

I wasn't sure if he was considered actually dead, but that scene pretty much confirmed it.

[Alapaki]

Now, I may be completely reading too much into stuff here, but it does seem that D&D like to place parallel storylines in the same episodes.

So, we have the groundwork for what appears to be tension if not outright conflict between siblings Jaime and Cersei, conveyed in the look Jaime gives in the Throne Room.

We have (arguably, for the forum, I realize) the groundwork for what appears to be tension if not outright conflict between siblings Sansa and Jon, conveyed in the look Sansa gave Littlefinger when Jon was coronated. 

And (and here's where I may be reading too much):

We had that shot of Theon looking at the Ironborn flag, now reduced to a small pennant on the back of the ship, whilst Yara's ships now fly under an unambiguously and unequivocally Targaryean Dragon Sail.  I did wonder in that moment if Theon didn't have a twinge of regret for the deal that Yara had cut in Daenarys' Throne Room.

[MsChipper]

14 hours ago, SeanC said:

But hey, Dany’s contemplating marriage alliances; what newly crowned handsome gentleman is out there?
 

Our boy Jon maybe? Right until they realize they're practically aunt and nephew. :|

Edited June 27, 2016 by MsChipper

[Gertrude]

I get why Lyanna would support Jon over Sansa too, but there are small holes in Jon's support all around that kind of took me out of the moment a bit. I was torn a bit and just decided to go with it. As I recall, Lyanna wasn't terribly impressed with Jon at their meeting either. Davos, on the other hand ...

Like I mentioned earlier, Bran is still out there, death unconfirmed and about to return to the land of the living. That will be quite embarrassing all around when he returns to Winterfell and asks what's going on :p (I believe Bran's role is not ultimately Lord of Winterfell, but in the books it's set up completely differently and is more organic. Robb's will, Sansa is still married to a Lannister and missing, Bran/Rickon/Arya are presumed dead by all, and I presume it will be clearer to everyone involved that Jon was resurrected and quite special, not just a dirty deserter. Seriously though, has this even been addressed by anyone not at the Wall when it happened?)

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, Boilergal said:

I believe Cersei knew Tommen would kill himself after he saw the explosion and believed Margery to be dead.  Cersei dressed to take the Iron Throne at the end of the day, it was not like anything she had ever worn before and perfectly fitting to take the throne.

I guess the point of Lancel following the kid, getting stabbed and crawling to the candle was to show us never ending barrels of wildfire- and how hell bent Cersei was on revenge.

I was a tiny bit disappointed at the TOJ - I was hoping there were would be boy girl twins - I guess it's still possible, and Lyanna was more concerned with the Jon baby's safety.  

I don't think Cersei knew that Tommen would kill himself. Why prevent him going to the Sept if she wanted him to die? It would have made her look less guilty. Plus how could she guarantee that he'd do it? Also, she's all about self preservation and since she knows that her children are going to die before she does that's one of the reasons she fights so hard for them. 

24 minutes ago, stagmania said:

I feel the same way. It seems a lot of people are suddenly cool with burning down a city and condemning a woman to rape and torture as long as a "badass" lady does it. 

I didn't get the impression that Gregorstein was going to rape Unella. I think if they'd wanted to imply that then she should have been naked and even more vulnerable. Or maybe if we'd seen him ripping at her clothes. I agree with those who think that she's going to be starved, tortured, and mutilated until she dies. I agree too with the suggestion that she'll likely lose her eyes. 

I'm not fussed over it because she was a cruel woman who abused and tortured people other than Cersei and she fucking enjoyed it. Olenna, the smartest character on this show, could see right through Unella and her pious smirk and knew instinctively that she wasn't a good woman. 

[Pogojoco]

People seem to forget Tyrion as a Lannister.

He can be Lord of Casterly Rock and Hand of the Queen- Tywin was that for Aerys and for his grandsons.

The lack of eligible young men for Danaerys to marry for political reasons is sort of hilarious. Jon (who she's related to), Tyrion, Robin Arryn, Jamie Lannister, and Littlefinger (I guess).  War is a bitch.

And I agree, the Jon Snow as deserter of the Night's Watch stuff is being weirdly glossed over. I get the King in the North stuff, just for his fighting, but they are just sort of going a long with it. I think Ramsey's the only one to have mentioned it in their pre-battle dick measuring.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Pogojoco

[Auntie Velvet]

21 minutes ago, Funzlerks said:

I didn't feel that the show was portraying what she did was badass.  The music was haunting and melancholy and unlike anything else before.  The emotional impact was centered on characters we care about - Tommen and Maergery.  There were lingering shots of the crowd to show that Cersei killed innocent men, women, and children.  Shots made it clear that a lot of people in neighboring areas were killed.  Cersei after the explosion was surrounded by emptiness and quiet.

 

No, the SHOW certainly wasn't glossing over her actions. It's always been a brutal universe, and I certainly wouldn't censor or condemn it. But I'm just not understanding the Yaaas Queen FAN reaction out there. 

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

I wonder if Littlefinger will try to sabotage Jon by disclosing his true parentage. That would be devasting for Jon, knowing that the man he know as Father is really his uncle, and the implication that he is not just a bastard Stark on his mother's side, but a presumed product of rape. Note: I don't believe that Lyanna was raped, and Jon may be a true born son of Rhaegar in the end, but it still makes Jon last in line behind Bran, Sansa and Arya taken strictly by rules of succession. 

LF is always up for some sabotage but how would he know this?  The only living person who could know the truth (besides Bran) is Howland Reed and I don't see him spilling the beans to LF.  He MIGHT tell Jon in person if they ever meet but I can't see him telling anyone else.  Regardless, his dream of sitting on the Iron Throne is a pipe dream with Dany, Tyrion, Varys, and their forces coming.

They were still calling Jon "Jon Snow" and NOT Jon Stark so maybe he should start his own royal cadet branch and leave the proper Stark line and Winterfell to Sansa, kind of like how Robert was king but Renly was the Lord of Storm's End.  The only problem with that is Winterfell seems to be the only suitable place for a King in the North to rule from.

[domina89]

1 hour ago, Funzlerks said:

Then, Cersei had a chance to sacrifice for the child she pretends is so important to her and instead she blows up a sixth of the capital so she can be Queen of nothing.  She has no allies, she has killed most of her family even.  What fighting force does she have?  Without serious treachery, Robb was wiping the floor against the Lannisters.  There is no way the Kinghts of the Vale couldn't just ride through them at this point.  And Cersei and Casterly Rock are broke.  The only thing she has is animal cunning.

That's what I was thinking, too.  The Tyrells were funding everything, basically.  How is Cersei planning for King's Landing to survive winter now?  How is she going to pay/feed the soldiers protecting her from the starving, unhappy citizens?  Cersei is quickly going to find herself backed into a corner- and we all know how badly that will turn out...

[Audreythe2nd]

Quote

So, we have the groundwork for what appears to be tension if not outright conflict between siblings Jaime and Cersei, conveyed in the look Jaime gives in the Throne Room.

I think it might possibly end up being much more than tension. Tommen is dead (who Jaime was obviously incredibly concerned about before leaving), he sees the remnants of the wildfire smoking in the distance, he's probably already connected these things in his mind, and the fact that he killed a king to save the people from burning a city and ruined his reputation in the meantime, and then Cersei goes and does THIS?! Yeah... I'd say it's going to be a tad bit more than tension.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Audreythe2nd

[MsChipper]

13 hours ago, anamika said:

Agree. If they wanted Jon to be KITN at the end of the season, they should have given him more to do. As it is, he was totally useless after being resurrected. Totally undeserved.

The thing is, I don't think Jon wants to be King. He just wants everyone to stop being stupid and fight for the North together once the Ice King comes.

It just so happens that everyone wants him to be King, and he kind of has no choice about it if he wants to get everyone united.

[Misplaced]

13 hours ago, Oscirus said:

No idea why Arya felt need to be in disguise when Frey didn't even know her, but whatever, that scene was awesome

But Jamie knows her.  

Also, what did Walder see when he untopped the pie?  I couldn't tell.  (Was it a tongue?  Because, yuck.)  

[tri4335]

It was a thumb.

[stagmania]

36 minutes ago, Funzlerks said:

I didn't feel that the show was portraying what she did was badass.  The music was haunting and melancholy and unlike anything else before.  The emotional impact was centered on characters we care about - Tommen and Maergery.  There were lingering shots of the crowd to show that Cersei killed innocent men, women, and children.  Shots made it clear that a lot of people in neighboring areas were killed.  Cersei after the explosion was surrounded by emptiness and quiet.

 I don't think the showrunners can be responsible for a knee jerk response against The High Sparrow and the Septa.  I am just amazed at the difference between the concerned handwringing last episode and this episode's cheering on of Cersei, not to mention Frey Pie.

I agree; I'm referring more to the fan reaction. There was a lot of enthusiastic praise for her actions last night, despite the show pretty clearly framing it as something that probably shouldn't be celebrated.

18 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

Like I mentioned earlier, Bran is still out there, death unconfirmed and about to return to the land of the living. That will be quite embarrassing all around when he returns to Winterfell and asks what's going on :p (I believe Bran's role is not ultimately Lord of Winterfell, but in the books it's set up completely differently and is more organic. Robb's will, Sansa is still married to a Lannister and missing, Bran/Rickon/Arya are presumed dead by all, and I presume it will be clearer to everyone involved that Jon was resurrected and quite special, not just a dirty deserter. Seriously though, has this even been addressed by anyone not at the Wall when it happened?)

I'm actually wondering if Bran's return won't be kept quiet. He's the Three-Eyed Raven now, which I think would preclude him from being the heir. And his power would put a target on his back, wouldn't it? There's a reason the previous TER was hiding way up above the wall. I guess we don't actually know that much about how this is supposed to work now that the power has transferred to Bran.

[MsChipper]

So......this just came to me, who's gonna take over the Frey's territory now?

Does this mean Jon can now take Riverrun and the Frey bridge/castle?

Edited June 27, 2016 by MsChipper

[AnnaMayWong]

Heroine❓ Heroine❓❗ Cersei is many things, but a heroine she is not. I applaud NOTHING performed by that brother-f^©k!ng maniac. I believe sadistic lunatic Cersei was deserving of that Sparrow punishment. Actually, she should have received harsher treatment.

Edited July 3, 2016 by BookElitist
??

[jcin617]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

I agree about Jon.  Even if he were to discover his parents married and he's not a bastard, it will be a greater loss not to be Ned's son.  Jon has based his entire life around Ned.

Even if/when Jon learns of his biological parentage, Ned is still his father.

[FurryFury]

That was pretty awesome. The only weak moment was Tommen's suicide - it felt contrived and not explained well at all. 

I loved Cersei's dress.

My heart broke for Dany a little bit when she admitted to Tyrion she didn't feel anything when she broke up with Daario. I wanted for her to tell Tyrion that conquering Westeros wasn't really her ultimate dream (at least it's not in the books) but I guess it wasn't the time. That was a great scene with her making him her Hand. Tyrion, I think, suffered the most from the rather pointless Dothraki subplot - D&D shouldn't have adapted it in the first place. Dany could have been dealing with her enemies and trying to find ships while strengthening her relationship with Tyrion. Although at least this plot has given us the awesome khal-burning scene.

Unpopular opinion: I didn't cheer for Jon becoming King of the North. He did nothing to deserve it other than conscripting wildlings. Sansa is clearly much smarted than him and deserved it more. Plus it's weird nobody has mentioned he has given Night's Watch vows which should preclude from becoming a king or taking any position of authority. And I'm not sure if they know about his resurrection, but if they do, it should really make them doubt. Although who knows, maybe it will happen next season.

Cheered for Arya killing Walder Frey. I know it's awful for her, but jeez, it's Walder Frey.

Finally, a Dorne scene that doesn't suck! It's interesting that D&D still somewhat follow Martin's plan with the Dorne/Targaryen alliance even if with absolutely different characters.

Can't wait until Dany arrives to Westeros. Feels like I've been waiting forever for that.

Theory: Melisandre will eventually join Dany's camp and tell her about the prophecy and stuff. Somebody has to.

Also, I don't think Jon would hook up with either Sansa (ew) or Dany (too little time). Maybe a brief courtship with the latter, but unlikely. I do think somebody will suggest them to marry when Jon is revealed to be a Targ, but they'll dismiss it. Dany knows her father was crazy and if she can bear children on the show (I forgot the specifics of the curse), she would probably want to avoid a possibility for another Aerys.

Edited June 27, 2016 by FurryFury

[vibeology]

1 minute ago, MsChipper said:

So......this just came to me, who's gonna take over the Frey's place now?

Does this mean Jon can now take Riverrun and the Frey bridge/castle?

Walder has like 20 kids and double that in the grandkid department. I'm sure Arya didn't have time to kill them all. Someone will take over but the infighting will leave the area unstable until someone more powerful (Dany or Jon) takes over. 

Sansa would be wise to find out what happened with Edmure and stake a claim to some of the Riverlands as an heir. Jon can't since he isn't Catelyn's but Sansa would be very useful there. She's even got that Tully look. 

[Ambrosefolly]

I hate those damn Sand Snakes so much, with that bitch sitting on the prince she murdered throne, that I would have suffered through Dorne an few scenes longer if  Arianne Martell was introduced and it was revealed in one scene that Doran had been planning revenge against the Lannisters the entire time, and Arianne imprisoned the Sand Snakes and she was the one that figured out how to clean up the mess the Sand Snakes created.

[Avaleigh]

Regarding the library scene--

The first thing that came to mind for me was the Beast giving Belle access to the library in the Disney movie. I loved that moment so I really responded to Sam getting to enjoy that. The only thing I didn't like was Sam not having the sense to put Gilly up at some inn first. It's not like the Citadel has a waiting room. She's just going to stand there indefinitely with the baby while Sam browses? 

[SeanC]

40 minutes ago, MsChipper said:

Our boy Jon maybe? Right until they realize they're practically aunt and nephew. :|

Aunt/nephew ain't nothing in Westeros, particularly by Targaryen standards.

35 minutes ago, Pogojoco said:

People seem to forget Tyrion as a Lannister.

He can be Lord of Casterly Rock and Hand of the Queen- Tywin was that for Aerys and for his grandsons.

I was leaving out Tyrion because it was being discussed for alliance purposes.  Tyrion is already Team Dany, so marrying him doesn't add anything she doesn't already have.

8 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

The only thing I didn't like was Sam not having the sense to put Gilly up at some inn first. It's not like the Citadel has a waiting room. She's just going to stand there indefinitely with the baby while Sam browses? 

I note the season began with Sam saying that Gilly couldn't stay in Oldtown because they had no money, but unless he's put his Valyrian steel sword in a pawn shop for unlimited credit, nothing has changed in that regard.

[nachomama]

Little Lyanna rocks! Only place I teared up was her shaming them into "the North Remembers".

My questions, did they show the Mountain's face? (dark screen can't see all the dark stuff) rassin frassin #!%*&!*@*#Y!%#

What makes Benjen Stark different than anyone else? If he's dead and basically a white walker why has he not completely turned? Is it the magical Starkness? And if Bran is the 3-eyed raven now maybe he can basically "fly" down south of the wall? Once he's talking to the tree he can soar or whatever?

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

Yeah, Lyanna is fun, but you have to be willing to buy into it without thinking to hard about it. I am willing.

What I wasn't fond of from Lyanna is that she supported Jon over Sansa. It's a small thing, but Lyanna should see that being a woman is no bar to being a strong leader. Yes, I know, there are reasons why people might prefer Jon over Sansa, and I'm not disagreeing, it's just that I thought little Lady Mormont might have a different perspective. (and if I buy that Jon would take Winterfell over Sansa because he's a warrior who can inspire people, then I have to take it on faith that he's OK taking it from Bran as well - I'll let it pass for the show)

And why exactly would Lyanna support Sansa? Her first impression of Sansa was not a good one ('you are beautiful, blah blah' '), and she made very clear that she didn't see Sansa as a Stark, calling her Sansa Bolton/Lannister ('I will always be a Stark', 'if you say so'). Also Davos made a pretty good case for Jon saying that Joer Mormont personaly chose Jon to lead the crows, made him Steward, that he trusted him, etc. It was pretty clear that right there Lyanna's mind turned from 'he is a Snow' to 'he is a Stark' when she learned all that.

And as far as all those lords just accepting a 10 years old sweeping  the floor with them, so what? This is a world where people bow to a child like Tommen becoming king, a weak spoiled child like Robynn rulling a powerful house and Lyanna Mormont being Lady Mormont. They accept children as rulers, why they wouldn't accept children calling them on their bullshit? For what is worth, House Mormont went to war against the Boltons and won. Lyanna has a double right to speak her mind.

[Oscirus]

Quote

He can be Lord of Casterly Rock and Hand of the Queen- Tywin was that for Aerys and for his grandsons

Unless Jamie dies and takes back his old job, he is the current owner of that particular title and I don't see Tyrion being willing to steal that from him.

And yea Lyanna is going to become really old next year since I'd bet the writers are going to see a need to shoe horn her in a bit more since she's such a fan fav.

[paigow]

1 minute ago, nachomama said:

And if Bran is the 3-eyed raven now maybe he can basically "fly" down south of the wall? Once he's talking to the tree he can soar or whatever?

His current data plan only allows unlimited flashbacks...he needs to find the Verizon 4G tree for flying

[Misplaced]

13 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Jon's name is something totally crazy, isn't it? The opposite of "Jon." Not sure what that would be.

 

13 hours ago, lmsweb said:

It's definitely going to be a Targaryeon sounding name. It's not going to be an Eddard or Benjen or Brandon kind of name.

 

If it's Aegon the Whateverth (Aegon = Gon = Jon) then I might break something.  

[roguetamlin]

Regarding the R+L=J reveal: my husband had no clue who the baby was until they did the superimposition. He hasn't read any of the books and doesn't really follow the show outside of the actual episodes. The Rhaegar part was completely missing for him, so it assuming he's the average viewer, it will be interesting to see how they put across the significance of the Tower of Joy scene next season.

[Unknown poster]

6 minutes ago, Misplaced said:

 

 

If it's Aegon the Whateverth (Aegon = Gon = Jon) then I might break something.  

Does it even matter? Jon's a grown man, I doubt he's going to start calling himself by his birth name, even if it's revealed. 

[Constantinople]

47 minutes ago, stagmania said:

I agree; I'm referring more to the fan reaction. There was a lot of enthusiastic praise for her actions last night, despite the show pretty clearly framing it as something that probably shouldn't be celebrated.

I agree.

If the show was trying to celebrate Cersei's actions, I think the episode/season would have ended with her sitting on the Iron Throne without a WTF look from Jaime rather than ending with Dany's Armada.

[Avaleigh]

5 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Aunt/nephew ain't nothing in Westeros, particularly by Targaryen standards.

I was leaving out Tyrion because it was being discussed for alliance purposes.  Tyrion is already Team Dany, so marrying him doesn't add anything she doesn't already have.

As people have mentioned, not only do we have more than one example of Starkcest but the Targaryens were all about it. Why establish all of that if it isn't to prepare people for something down the road with Dany and/or Jon? Incest just isn't viewed in the same way in the world of asoiaf as it is in our world when you have the royal family openly practicing it for hundreds of years and people being okay with it even when the Targaryens didn't have dragons to back them up. Frankly, people in the story seem to have had bigger issues with polygamy regarding the Targaryens than the incest.

The Spanish Hapsburgs had serious consequences for those uncle/niece unions but the Starks don't seem to have produced monstrosities that we know of. (I've long theorized that the wolf blood is strong in the Starks because of the various examples of them keeping marital unions in the family.) The monstrosities with the Targaryens seem to be more about the blood magic that ties them to dragons rather than it being about the incest since these people are ridiculously inbred, but generation after generation after generation produced beautiful, talented, and capable children and this certainly wouldn't be the case in our world. Sure, there are exceptions like Maelys the Monstrous but that type of offspring wasn't typical. 

The biggest consequence is the streak of madness that runs in the Targaryen family and I feel like a lot of that can be attributed to them being in an environment where people are in positions of power and are allowed to get away with doing sick and crazy stuff because the average person isn't necessarily able to prevent it because of the imbalance of power. All one has to do is look at the world book to realize that incest doesn't have to be part of the equation to produce insanely cruel rulers. 

5 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I note the season began with Sam saying that Gilly couldn't stay in Oldtown because they had no money, but unless he's put his Valyrian steel sword in a pawn shop for unlimited credit, nothing has changed in that regard.

Right now, I'm fanwanking that his mother gave him some money before everything went to hell during their dinner since she knew he'd be journeying to Oldtown. 

[FurryFury]

Cersei's terrible and evil but I couldn't NOT cheer for her finally freeing me from having to watch High Sparrow. I hated him almost as much as Ramse, he was THAT annoying.

As for Septa, I don't think Gregor would be raping her (he's a freaking zombie), but I guess it was ambiguous enough to suggest that.

[Constantinople]

Jaime doesn't like being compared to Walder Frey, least of all by Walder Frey himself.

[Haleth]

3 hours ago, vibeology said:

It's a short list for sure. I figure in terms of major houses there's only Robin Arryn, Jon Snow, Bran Stark, Jaime or Tyrion Lannister left. Edmure is alive but married and all the other noble lords are dead. We can write off the Greyjoys since Theon is useless dynastically (I know that's a harsh way of putting it, but it's true) and she's allied with Yara so wouldn't marry any of the Greyjoy uncles. If she goes into the minor houses, there's obviously more options. Bronn of the Blackwater, Sam's brother, any of the Northern Lords who are unmarried or Littlefinger (though I know that would never happen) or they have to add a new character.

Edd.  (Hey, if the Wall falls and there is no further need for the Night's Watch... why not?)

I'm going to be a contrarian here and say that I find Cersei subjecting Unella to rape and torture as revenge for getting her dignity bruised is appalling.  I also think blowing up a church with so many innocent people in order to kill one man is horrifying.  I have zero sympathy for her and the valonquar can't come soon enough.  (However, her outfit was divine. LOL)

Best comment I heard:

"Margaery slipped under the dumpster."

Edited June 27, 2016 by Haleth
Ulenna/Unella... potato/potahto

[Ambrosefolly]

25 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Unless Jamie dies and takes back his old job, he is the current owner of that particular title and I don't see Tyrion being willing to steal that from him.

And yea Lyanna is going to become really old next year since I'd bet the writers are going to see a need to shoe horn her in a bit more since she's such a fan fav.

I don't know what the actress will do. It seems she booked a pilot playing an actual child than whatever she plays now.

[Oscirus]

Quote

 

I note the season began with Sam saying that Gilly couldn't stay in Oldtown because they had no money, but unless he's put his Valyrian steel sword in a pawn shop for unlimited credit, nothing has changed in that regard.

 

 

I'm more wondering how Sam's father hasn't chased him down and wrung his neck for stealing Randyll's sword. It's not like Randyll doesn't know where he's going.

R.I.P Mereen's wine economy. It just took a YOOGE hit with Tyrion's departure.

[DavidJSnyder]

41 minutes ago, nachomama said:

 

What makes Benjen Stark different than anyone else? If he's dead and basically a white walker why has he not completely turned?

He told Bran that the Children found him before he was all the way dead/turned and put some dragonglass in his chest. 

[BigBeagle]

3 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I'm going to be a contrarian here and say that I find Cersei subjecting Ulenna to rape and torture as revenge for getting her dignity bruised is appalling.  I also think blowing up a church with so many innocent people in order to kill one man is horrifying.  I have zero sympathy for her and the valonquar can't come soon enough.  (However, her outfit was stunning. LOL)

Absolutely. Ulenna was mean, petty and got off on mistreating others, but she surely didn't deserve what she got. As far as Cersei, she's gone full Mad Queen territory, so at least I can cheer when she finally buys it.

And that outfit was outstanding. A female friend was watching the episode with me and asked where she could get a dress like that.

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

LF is always up for some sabotage but how would he know this?  The only living person who could know the truth (besides Bran) is Howland Reed and I don't see him spilling the beans to LF.  He MIGHT tell Jon in person if they ever meet but I can't see him telling anyone else.  Regardless, his dream of sitting on the Iron Throne is a pipe dream with Dany, Tyrion, Varys, and their forces coming.

It's safe to assume that Bran knows, too, but who would believe him or Howland Reed for the matter? Ned Stark spent 20 years saying Jon was his bastard child, and Jon doesn't look like a Targaryen at all. I'm inclined to believe that  it will be relevealed somehow that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's child, but it will take surviving the dragons' fire just like Dany for Jon to be established as a Targaryen.

13 minutes ago, Misplaced said:

If it's Aegon the Whateverth (Aegon = Gon = Jon) then I might break something.  

Aejon, clearly.

[nachomama]

5 minutes ago, DavidJSnyder said:

He told Bran that the Children found him before he was all the way dead/turned and put some dragonglass in his chest. 

Oh thank you, didn't remember that and if anyone listens I guess when they have the final battle they better sprinkle all their own fallen with dragonglass schrapnel to prevent them from turning.

[dbell1]

For all the questions about why Benjen dropped Bran and Meera off... That was the weirwood where Jon and Sam said their vows.  It's about a mile from the Wall.  So, a bit of a hike for Meera, but they should be safe since he mentioned the magic surrounding the Wall - hope it keeps White Walkers out. 

Still processing the show today - so many awesome moments last night.  And the music - just amazing!