Season Four Discussion

[heatherchandler]

Entertainment Weekly and Vulture do great recaps and one of them pointed out that during the scene at the end when the camera did that shot from the top, when the guards and inmates were standing around possey and tayste, and they formed an eye.  

There was some use of hoodies in the last episode.  I'm sure this was intentional but not quite sure how the symbolism worked.  CO Bayley was wearing a hoodie with the hood up when he was standing in the hallway, waiting to apologize to her friends.  Then as the inmates were running to the riot, Watson flipped up her hoodie.  

Another writer pointed out that when maritza and flacca were sitting together at the end, wearing masks- it was almost like they were in "whiteface."  Again, not sure what this symbolizes.

[mattie0808]

I don't have particularly articulate thoughts formed yet, so...

-- Get Piper the living fuck off my screen. Please!

-- SHOOT HIM, DAYA. DO IT! (Or someone, anyone, please.)

-- I know I'm supposed to feel bad for the poor, poor guard who had the misfortune of killing Poussey, and however he will live with it for the rest of his poor, poor life, and how the system totally, like failed him too. But I don't. mostly because his inappropriate responses to the situation KILLED HER. I mean, I get it, there's nothing more to be done for Poussey, she's just as DEAD whether he keeps his job, is fired, goes to jail himself, so hell, why not try to do right by the poor, poor guy, so his life, which, you know, isn't OVER, isn't so unnecessarily ruined. I mean, think about it! How did he live, having to watch the other guards make Suzanne fight her girlfriend almost to death, while doing nothing until telling Caputo the next day? And all those racist searches of the Latina (and occasionally black) prisoners he had to conduct? And whatever else I might be forgetting. Don't forget all HIS suffering and pain just because there might be an instinct to worry about the women actually having this stuff DONE to them, or you know, DYING. WTF-ever. Drives me crazy, in fiction and reality.

-- I liked Alex this year, and wish she wasn't back with Piper. I wish she had continued interacting more with Lolly, but I guess she had to be the sacrficial lamb of the dead guard story. Earlier in the season, I was actually quite worried she wouldn't survive, so I'm relieved she did, but dear lord...the psych ward. :/

-- How can Nicky possibly have three years sober?

-- I thought Red was awesome this year, Gloria too. I needed more Chang.

-- Thank goodness Sophia is out of the SHU and about as well as she can be. Good for her wife sticking to it until that point.

-- Of the flashbacks, I really enjoyed Maritza's and Blanca's the most. I was never a fan of Healy's, but since he chose to get himself help, I feel better about seeing them in retrospect. Poor, poor guard's utterly unremarkable flashbacks didn't do it for me, even by the end of the season.

-- Reminder: Damn, Morello is crazy!

-- Taystee as Caputo's assistant was pretty awesome. Did they say what that prison job paid? I hope well (and not just in illegal watches).

-- I'll never believe in Caputo again...last time was when he got Sophia's picture out. But that's over.

-- I don't know what to make of Doggett/Rapist. Other than, yay Boo!

-- I'm beyond devastated about Poussey.

I thought it was a great, great season.

Edited June 25, 2016 by mattie0808

[Acceleration]

On 2016-06-22 at 2:06 PM, stagmania said:

Samira Wiley gave an interview to The Hollywood Reporter in which she addressed some of the controversy around Poussey's death and the show's intentions with the storyline. In particular, I think it's notable that Poussey being a POC was part of the point of this story-they were specifically alluding to Black Lives Matter and Eric Garner's death, which wouldn't have worked with a white character. And as has been pointed out by others in this forum, Poussey was really the closest thing the show had to a purely good character who everyone would be devastated to lose, and that definitely informed their decision to center this story around her.

I completely understand where some fans are coming from with their feelings of disgust, and I think if you slot her death into the larger pattern of female and specifically WOC and queer deaths on TV this year, it's part of an upsetting trend. But I also think the context of each show matters, and on OitNB, nearly all the important characters are women, most are WOC and many are queer (as are most of the romances on the show), so this is definitely not a case of a token minority being killed off, as it is on many of those other shows. 

While I understand to a certain extent what you mean, I have to disagree on the statement and why this season especially has been so visceral and brutal for me.
 

This article, put into words what I was feeling when I had finished the season brilliantly. It was a well-acted, well written season and a lot of interesting ideas were floated, but what I also felt like somebody was pulling an elaborate joke by trying to tell me that the world is flat, when I was feeling it in my bones that the world is round.

For anyone who is curious why many black and/or other POC are feeling disgust and other emotions, that article really is  a good start.

[Negritude]

On Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 9:52 AM, leighdear said:

That was sad, but not entirely unexpected that one of the "usual suspects" wasn't going to make it out alive.  I didn't care much for Poussey, so I'm fine with the end of her story, though I know I'm in the minority.

Right there with you. Didn't care for the character or the actress who I've disliked since that minstrel show of a performance she gave in "The Babysitter" with Jonah Hill.

[knaankos]

Not really that important but where are all the characters from? Most of them seem to be from NYC or the outskirts or New York the state. Only a few appear to be form somewhere else. 

Lolly from Seattle? As shown in her flashback

Leanne from rural Pennsylvania maybe.

Lucky from like West Virginia or something

Piper's bunk mate from Hawaii. 

Red from Russia originally but was living in NY.

any others from different spots? I don't believe so

 

edit:

Yoga Jones from California

Cindy is apparently from Pittsburgh

Edited June 26, 2016 by knaankos

[Blue Plastic]

2 hours ago, knaankos said:

Not really that important but where are all the characters from? Most of them seem to be from NYC or the outskirts or New York the state. Only a few appear to be form somewhere else. 

Lolly from Seattle? As shown in her flashback

Leanne from rural Pennsylvania maybe.

Lucky from like West Virginia or something

Piper's bunk mate from Hawaii. 

Red from Russia originally but was living in NY.

any others from different spots? I don't believe so

Chang

[SparedTurkey]

This may be a bit late to the party but regarding the Lolly/Susanne violent tendencies and should they be in psych or jail I think it is worth noting that Lolly's only violent and aggressive behaviour was to beat the crap out of the guard/hitman while he was trying to kill Alex. She wasn't randomly violent and I think that was a pretty clear case of defence of someone else that anyone else would be praised for. Of course they all ruined it with the chopping him up and burying him but that was hardly Lolly's own fault either.

[Cherpumple]

On 6/24/2016 at 8:46 PM, knaankos said:

I agree with you about the backstories. Too many of them show instances of set-up or misunderstanding. Which I suppose makes sense for minimum security but then the way they are treated in prison does not fit with their crimes. Very few of the backstories have shown the woman as just an overall lousy person with habitual criminality, which let's be honest does make up a decent % of the population in a prison usually.

I feel the opposite way, and think that most of the women we've seen have admitted their crimes, or at least been shown as unambiguously guilty (even if it was a first time offense or unintentional): Piper, Alex, Nicky, Yoga Jones, Lorna, Sophia, Miss Claudette, Cindy, Pennsatucky, the nun, Aleida, Soso, Taystee, Vee, Maritza, Janae, Rosa, Norma, Frieda and the other old ladies, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

There have been very few misunderstandings/set-ups (Flaca, Gloria, and possibly Poussey), one freak accident (Suzanne), and a few instances of people getting caught up in something too big for them (Daya, maybe Leanne, and possibly Red, although she knowingly worked with the Russian mafia). There are also several others whose exact crimes are still unclear (Boo, Angie, Blanca) so they're difficult to categorize. Anyway, one of the things I've always liked about this show is precisely the fact that these women are shown to be criminals, not innocent victims (for the most part), and yet there are so many circumstances that led them to commit crimes (cycle of poverty, addiction, poor judgment, criminal family/friends, hubris, naivety, desperation, etc.) and so many different consequences for their lives.

[Mattipoo]

This season was great. I especially loved the scenes with the black girls, they were the standouts this season, particularly Taystee becoming Caputo's assistant and using his computer to get on the Internet to browse celebrity gossip, black Cindy and her friendship with her new Muslim bunk mate, and Crazy eyes going ape-shit on Maureen.

Frieda is another standout character this season, and I hope they explore more of her backstory in the future.

Also love the increased focus on the Spanish Harlem gang, such as Flores (who looked gorgeous in her flashback). I am not sure I like the direction they took Ruiz in as I liked her last season after she lost her baby, but the drug kingpin/gang leader role I feel is a little abrupt and unexpected.

Overall this is the best season so far and I was totally invested in most of the storylines. The final episode with Poussey's weird and magical night out in NYC was pretty fun, especially her meeting with the drag queens and the pot-smoking monks. RIP Poussey.

[Blue Plastic]

2 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

I feel the opposite way, and think that most of the women we've seen have admitted their crimes, or at least been shown as unambiguously guilty (even if it was a first time offense or unintentional): Piper, Alex, Nicky, Yoga Jones, Lorna, Sophia, Miss Claudette, Cindy, Pennsatucky, the nun, Aleida, Soso, Taystee, Vee, Maritza, Janae, Rosa, Norma, Frieda and the other old ladies, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

There have been very few misunderstandings/set-ups (Flaca, Gloria, and possibly Poussey), one freak accident (Suzanne), and a few instances of people getting caught up in something too big for them (Daya, maybe Leanne, and possibly Red, although she knowingly worked with the Russian mafia).

I wouldn't call Suzanne/Crazy Eyes a "freak accident."  She didn't mean to kill him, but she was chasing him around and being rather insistent that the little boy not leave, acting angry toward him whereas before she had been friendly.

1 hour ago, Mattipoo said:

Also love the increased focus on the Spanish Harlem gang, such as Flores (who looked gorgeous in her flashback). I am not sure I like the direction they took Ruiz in as I liked her last season after she lost her baby, but the drug kingpin/gang leader role I feel is a little abrupt and unexpected.

Totally agree.  I also thought it was an abrupt change for her.  She seemed like one of the more mild mannered prisoners before, but now she is a lot more hard core and it seemed to come on so suddenly.  Maybe it's because her child was taken away so she just decided to go all in with a crminal lifestyle, but it's still kind of sudden.  I don't like that Gloria is basically the only one urging Daya not to do something stupid.

[Cherpumple]

6 minutes ago, Blue Plastic said:

I wouldn't call Suzanne/Crazy Eyes a "freak accident."  She didn't mean to kill him, but she was chasing him around and being rather insistent that the little boy not leave, acting angry toward him whereas before she had been friendly.

That's true, I was focusing on the kid's death itself as the accident, but she clearly is culpable for taking him back to her apartment without parental consent and not letting him leave.

[Gulftastic]

I echo the above likings for the increased focus on the black and hispanic families this time round. Much more of a true ensemble piece now it's no longer mainly about the experiences of a middle class white person.

The last few episodes were a tough watch. Poor Lolly's fate was heart breaking enough, then the death of Poussey really set me off. My eyes were leaking pretty much from then on watching the final episode, with her beautiful flashback.

The Healey flashback made me understand him a bit more. He's still trying to save his Mom. I've gone through something similar (coping with a parent's mental illness at a young age) and those scenes hit a little too close to home.

[kelslamu]

On 6/25/2016 at 4:28 PM, mattie0808 said:

 

-- How can Nicky possibly have three years sober?

 

I can't believe I didn't pick up on that.  Seriously, Daya just had the baby and Nicky hadn't been gone that long.  Hell, Piper and quite a few would be gone if three years had passed.

[kathe5133]

When we met Nicky she was sober and it appeared she had been sober for awhile.  She remained sober, even though she had a stash of heroin, right up to when she was accused of hiding in Lucschack(sp)'s desk.  She never relapsed.  She even commented that as a junkie having it close was a comfort.  There were flashbacks of her using, but she never used while we "knew" her.  Until of course in Max right before she was sent back to Litchfield.

[lonestar]

Caputo never cared about the women, if you go back to season 1, he was always saying they were nothing but lying criminals, never to be trusted.

IMO, Susanne is mostly responsible for Poussey's death. Suzanne attacked people every season and always got a pass from her fellow prisoners and the guards.  Her parents must have connections, since she said they had an agreement with the prison.

Edited June 27, 2016 by lonestar

[Maysie]

7 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

I wouldn't call Suzanne/Crazy Eyes a "freak accident."  She didn't mean to kill him, but she was chasing him around and being rather insistent that the little boy not leave, acting angry toward him whereas before she had been friendly.

The Suzanne thing was incredibly sad to me because it seems that she's in a strange place, mentally. I think she's fairly intelligent but as far as maturity, she's very stunted. I don't know if there's a term/diagnosis for that but it became clear to me in her flashback that she was considered special. She had the job as a greeter (and she was very good at it) but had to live with her sister. The thought that her sister would leave her for a short weekend obviously terrified her, even though she theoretically could have taken care of herself. Though she could do the things necessary to live - operate appliances and electronics, hold a basic job, etc., she simply didn't have the tools to really function independently in an adult world - so she couldn't understand that they little boy wouldn't want to stay with her. And I'm sure it never occurred to her that his parents would be out of their minds wondering where he was. She has no boundaries, really, so chasing him around to tell him he couldn't leave isn't all that much different than her pursuit of Piper in the first season. I believe she never would have knowingly harmed him and I feel like if she'd known how frightened he was that she would have let him go. Suzanne needs someone to talk her down because she seems incapable of something - maybe it's empathy? - that's necessary for a healthy relationship.

Overall, I thought the season was solid. I try not to think too much about the inmates' crimes in regards to their sentences - how some are obviously worthy of federal prison while others seem pretty questionable (such as Poussey). The fact that I was able to put my Piper hate aside (because she working my last nerve the first half of the season) and focus on the bigger story being told is a credit to everyone involved.

I am very curious about where the next season picks up. Do we pick up where we left off and see what Daya does or do we deal with the fall out a day/a week/a month later? I can't believe that Poussey's death, the guard's death and subsequent FBI investigation, the riot and Sophia's ex's lawsuit won't have some sort of impact on either media snooping around or additional investigation. Although that's a lot of wishful thinking on my part...

[lonestar]

Why is Piper still there?  Daya got pregnant a couple of months after Piper was incarcerated, she had the baby, a couple more months have gone by, yet Piper is still there even though her sentence was 15 months?

Also, why is Daya in prison? I know why the rest are there, but not her, and Flaca was underage when she sold the fake drugs to the kid. Would she really be in adult prison for an extended time for selling stamped paper to someone while underage?

Edited June 27, 2016 by lonestar

[knaankos]

2 hours ago, lonestar said:

Why is Piper still there?  Daya got pregnant a couple of months after Piper was incarcerated, she had the baby, a couple more months have gone by, yet Piper is still there even though her sentence was 15 months?

 

yeah and its not like she's talking about her release or preparing for it, she's acting like she has years and years left. The way she broke down while talking to her brother? I mean, shouldn't she be like "see you in a couple months!"

[kelslamu]

On 6/26/2016 at 6:55 PM, kathe5133 said:

When we met Nicky she was sober and it appeared she had been sober for awhile.  She remained sober, even though she had a stash of heroin, right up to when she was accused of hiding in Lucschack(sp)'s desk.  She never relapsed.  She even commented that as a junkie having it close was a comfort.  There were flashbacks of her using, but she never used while we "knew" her.  Until of course in Max right before she was sent back to Litchfield.

Thanks.  For some reason, I thought she had relapsed before going to Max.  

[mattie0808]

2 minutes ago, kelslamu said:

Thanks.  For some reason, I thought she had relapsed before going to Max.  

I definitely thought she had! So the way she was acting was just nervousness about getting caught with the stash?

[Sdh]

On 6/26/2016 at 8:11 PM, lonestar said:

Why is Piper still there?  Daya got pregnant a couple of months after Piper was incarcerated, she had the baby, a couple more months have gone by, yet Piper is still there even though her sentence was 15 months?

Also, why is Daya in prison? I know why the rest are there, but not her, and Flaca was underage when she sold the fake drugs to the kid. Would she really be in adult prison for an extended time for selling stamped paper to someone while underage?

Didn't she get extra time for beating up Pensatucky at the end of Season One? They didn't come out and say it, but you would think-ditto on something that happened with the Chicago trial, I have a vague memory-anyone?

[DrSpaceman73]

I thought this season was by far the best, start to finish.  Episode 12 was the highlight.  Just heartbreaking all around.  Suzanne and Lolly, even Healy with his story were all just heartbreaking. 

It was not as high on comedy like prior seasons, but I thought all the storylines were very well done and gripping throughout the season. 

 

My one complain is similar to what someone already mentioned.  The show in the backstories goes out of there way to show the mitigating circumstances behind the inmates transgressions.  I have no problem with that.  What I do have a problem with is they then use pretty black and white characters and circumstances for many on the other side this season, in particular the company in charge of the prison and the guards.  Not all the guards, but some of them.  And they show there really is nothing the company cares about except making money

 

But in general, the writing and acting this season was superb all around.  I enjoy how they rotate around the characters they focus on each season.  I was glad Piper finally was shown how she just was not that much of a badass and saw the consequences of what she started. 

[DrSpaceman73]

I do wonder why Poussay got such a long sentence for what is claimed to be in her file.  Doesn't make much sense.  From what we saw she likely wouldn't be in jail at all, probably probation and some community service. 

Lots of comments about the show being dark this season, which is true.  I don't mind that though.  Despite this show getting "best comedy" last year, and yes it does have some comedic moments, I have always viewed it more drama than comedy.  I liked the darker and more serious stories.

 

Its sad a sad state when you find yourself wishing for the good all days of annoying and over the line but at least funny and not psychotic, as in pornstache, rather than these psycho guards. 

I would always prefer they just let Piper out at some time and move on with the other stories.  They could touch up on her here and there outside prison a few times a season.  The show has moved so much beyond the books though now for several seasons she really is not needed much. 

[GreekGeek]

I really enjoyed this season. I was saddened but not shocked by Poussey's death. I did my best to avoid spoilers, but when sites gave links like "Samira Wiley talks about Poussey's devastating scene," that had to mean either that she died or that she killed someone else. Her scenes with Soso were sweet, but this "inmate A and inmate B become close" plotline is getting repetitious.

I keep on being amazed how the show manages to make even the minor characters three-dimensional. About the only ones who aren't are the corporate folks and some of the new guards. At the end of last season I named Coates as one of the few flat characters, but he got quite a bit more depth this season. That leaves the MCC board. I can't stand Linda, but I wonder why she is with Caputo. He's quite a bit older than she is and not handsome. Is she playing with his desires to keep him towing the corporate line? Also was interested in Caputo's remark to the effect that he chose Taystee to be his assistant because she's the only somewhat intelligent inmate he finds somewhat desirable.

I hope we get more insight into the lives of the new guards, especially Piscatelli. Interesting that he's a gay man--or was he just saying that to get Piper to quit trying to charm him?

Could not stand "gangsta" Piper and glad she got humbled. Did she really think she was some sort of badass? What an idiot. She and Alex are much more interesting to me apart than together. Are they now a couple again? Snooze.

It was interesting to see how Suzanne ended up in prison. Did the flashback explain why Dylan's mother didn't say no to his going to Suzanne's place without her?

I missed Chang this season but glad the cult of Norma fizzled out. Nice to have Nicky back and hope she can stay clean, but I'm not optimistic. I'm also interested in what will happen with Crystal re Sophia's treatment. It would have been cool if Sophia could have been Judy's roomie instead of Yoga. 

Judy King was a lot of fun and I'm glad she won't be going anywhere right away. 

Bring on Season 5!

[Princess Sparkle]

2 minutes ago, GreekGeek said:

I hope we get more insight into the lives of the new guards, especially Piscatelli. Interesting that he's a gay man--or was he just saying that to get Piper to quit trying to charm him?

It was interesting to see how Suzanne ended up in prison. Did the flashback explain why Dylan's mother didn't say no to his going to Suzanne's place without her?

 

For the first point - I think Piscatelli really is gay; I thought when Caputo was yelling at him at the end of the last episode saying that he dug into his background to find out why he'd been forced the leave the men's max prison, I heard an emphasis on the "mens" and assumed he was hinting that he had some kind of relationship with an inmate that was covered by MCC.

For the second point, I assumed that Dylan just up and left with Suzanne; I don't think he asked for permission at all.  

[JessePinkman]

I REALLY hope it isn't revealed that the only gay man on the show, no matter what a monster he is, had inappropriate relations or raped prisoners in max.

[lonestar]

Except for Tricia and Poussey's death, this show is sort of fluff, especially when compared to Wentworth.

[Catznip]

50 minutes ago, lonestar said:

Except for Tricia and Poussey's death, this show is sort of fluff, especially when compared to Wentworth.

I agree. The best women prison series war by far Bad Girls. 

[DrSpaceman73]

I haven't seen those other series, but the only fluff part of the series revolves around Piper, IMO

[Thog]

I'm no fan of Aleida, but I did like seeing an inmate struggle with getting out and then (apparently) start to do okay. They already did the
"can't make it on the outside" storyline with Taystee, and they did a good job of making it clear that so many people end up going back because there is no infrastructure and so little support for the transition. I'm sure we'll continue to follow Aleida because of Daya's situation, and I hope she continues to make it.

I am so torn on the Pennsatuckey storyline. I hated seeing her forgive her rapist, and it looked for a while like we were supposed to sympathize with him which just turned my stomach. But she is not in a position to kick him out of her life, and carrying around that much pain and anger toward one of the few people she ever saw as an ally (and still has to see every day) must have been eating her up inside. In the end I thought it was handled well, largely because I still can't decide how I feel about it.

Still love Morello, and I'm especially interested to see if she continues to recognize her own delusions and how they derail her life. I'm glad she was not a major player this season, but they kept her story going. She did not deserve the fairy tale ending it looked like she was getting last season.

I hope Poussey's dad does play a role next season, as many are predicting. I would love to know what he said to Caputo.

Linda can stay in that stall for the next three seasons for all I care. She was such a cartoon villain.

I wonder if we're done with Healey? The actor did such a great job of almost being sympathetic, but then showing his controlling misogynist side just when I started to care about him. I don't know what more they can do with him, really, but I have to reluctantly admit that I've enjoyed him.

[J.D.]

Now that everyone's had the chance to watch the entire season, I just have to ask this question since I obviously missed something.  Most everyone seems so moved by that last scene with Poussey smiling toward the camera, and her whole backstory in general.  I don't get it.  What did I miss?  She was probably my favorite character on the show and yet, that whole backstory, smiling toward the camera thing flew right over my head.  I'm guessing it references something from a previous season ....?????  I watched that episode twice and I still don't get what was so poignant about that scene.  Can somebody fill me in?

Edited July 4, 2016 by J.D.

[jsm1125]

On 6/30/2016 at 9:16 AM, Princess Sparkle said:

For the first point - I think Piscatelli really is gay; I thought when Caputo was yelling at him at the end of the last episode saying that he dug into his background to find out why he'd been forced the leave the men's max prison, I heard an emphasis on the "mens" and assumed he was hinting that he had some kind of relationship with an inmate that was covered by MCC.

For the second point, I assumed that Dylan just up and left with Suzanne; I don't think he asked for permission at all.  

I too think Piscatella really is gay, as I remember Red, during their interrogation, asking him if the police didn't want a fairy on its force.

I liked the touch of Maritza being the one to knock Humphrey to the ground. I wonder if she and/or Flacca had told anyone else about Humphrey's sadistic flies and mouse game with her.

Am I the only one who never got a mentally ill vibe from Maureen? I just saw her as mean-spirited and calculating, as she seemed very lucid in every scene except for the cabin one in the premiere.

I wish we had gotten to see at least a glimpse of Miss Claudette in Max, as we saw or heard from Nikki, Stella and Taysllitz, the woman who shanked the inmate who she mistakenly thought was Vee.

I thought it was a little too convenient that Sophia and Aleida never cross paths in this season, given that the latter was the former's biggest antagonist in season 3.

Edited July 4, 2016 by jsm1125

[mattie0808]

Quote

I wish we had gotten to see at least a glimpse of Miss Claudette in Max, as we saw or heard from Nikki, Stella and Taysllitz, the woman who shanked the inmate who she mistakenly thought was Vee.

I was soooooooooo waiting to see her! Ah well.

[FozzyBear]

I feel like the common thread among many of the women and their crimes is a low threshold for stress and poor decision making skills. Which seems like a duh moment, but it pretty much holds true, that big crime or small these women make poor choices when under stress. Blanca goes all physiological warfare when her job sucks, Piper responds to not having a post college plan by running drugs, and so on and so on. These women don't maybe all deserve the sentences they got but they all share the same tendency to double down on danger instead of looking for help.

[Aja]

On 7/4/2016 at 1:32 PM, jsm1125 said:

I too think Piscatella really is gay, as I remember Red, during their interrogation, asking him if the police didn't want a fairy on its force.

He's definitely gay. He told Piper he's into men and will therefore never find her schtick adorable. He also mentioned a couple times that his mother made him go through conversion therapy (which could explain his lack of humanity with the prisoners.)

Edited July 5, 2016 by Aja

[RCharter]

15 minutes ago, FozzyBear said:

I feel like the common thread among many of the women and their crimes is a low threshold for stress and poor decision making skills. Which seems like a duh moment, but it pretty much holds true, that big crime or small these women make poor choices when under stress. Blanca goes all physiological warfare when her job sucks, Piper responds to not having a post college plan by running drugs, and so on and so on. These women don't maybe all deserve the sentences they got but they all share the same tendency to double down on danger instead of looking for help.

I was watching MSNBC Lock Up (which I love) and the warden at a womens facility basically said something to the effect of "most of the crimes the women commit were either about getting drugs or were over a man."

She said it much more judiciously than I said it -- but it was basically that.  And you would hear that a lot of these women were in there for killing an abusive man, or they were getting turned out for drugs, or they had to take to the streets to support a family, or that there was some jealousy over a man that caused them to act out, or that they were with a guy and both decided to go rogue.

Now, of course, I'm sure some of these women blame men in the hopes of getting a shorter sentence....but it seemed pretty telling.

[nightowl1989]

In response to the comments about "young Lolly" - she was played by Christina Brucato, and it was her voice not a dubbed Lori Petty. Pretty incredible casting and acting if you ask me.

Edited July 6, 2016 by nightowl1989

[ChromaKelly]

Completely frivolous observation - I was distracted by everyone's eyeliner this season. Alex, Red, Maritza,Flaca, Nicky... it was like their eyeliner was making some kind of statement. I don't really see that upturned swoop at the edge of the eye much in real life.

[Sofinn]

1 hour ago, ChromaKelly said:

Completely frivolous observation - I was distracted by everyone's eyeliner this season. Alex, Red, Maritza,Flaca, Nicky... it was like their eyeliner was making some kind of statement. I don't really see that upturned swoop at the edge of the eye much in real life.

Nicky's eyemakeup is really bad, it's really distracting. And whats up with Red's weird eyeliner lines that go nowhere? 

Anyways. I have started/continued to dislike many characters, some without a obvious reason. Like that burned short haired woman who fixed the radio. Can't stand her. Then there's Piper. And yoga lady. Meth heads.. list goes on.

Besides all this complaining, I enjoyed this season much more than the previous one. Poussey will be sorely missed.

[Captanne]

LOL!!  I was distracted by all the "cats eye" eyeliner style.  It's not the eyeliner itself as much as it is -- cats eye.

I think Red's messed up eye liner was because her mirror was stolen.  That was the point being made.

[Bean421]

This was a great article by the AV Club about season four. I wish we could have had something this thoughtful from PTV. 

http://avc.lu/29VZtuf

[DangerousMinds]

On 6/18/2016 at 4:33 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

I agree, with everything you said and more and I'll add on my thoughts.

I still think I dislike Piper more and more as this show goes on. The only scene out of this season I liked was her scene with Bayley when she told him Poussey's friend couldn't hear him apologize. They couldn't then and there's a chance they never will be able to. But aside from that, for a main character she sure does keep away from a lot of big things happen if you ask me.

As for the guards, they are all terrible. I wanted to like Coate's again because when Pennstucky told him what he did, he really did seem to be feeling some sort of remorse for the situation, only then to ruin in his last scene. I get why Penn forgave him but I wish that would be the least of it. The women guard is the absolute worst, to me, it seemed like she went along with the story of the shiv because it's a "boys club" kind of thing which..ugh.

 

Maybe the woman guard is going along with it because she fears for her own safety if she doesn't. She is a veteran, after all, and probably had to do the same in the military.

[DangerousMinds]

On 6/20/2016 at 4:14 PM, The Mighty Peanut said:

I do wonder why Poussay got such a long sentence for what is claimed to be in her file.  Doesn't make much sense.  From what we saw she likely wouldn't be in jail at all, probably probation and some community service. 

It wasn't simply a possession charge, they got her on intent to sell.

[gunderda]

Is there anywhere on the internet that gives a list of characters and what they are in prison for? At least the ones they have revealed.  

I love the flashbacks but I get so confused by then and can never remember what each one did to land themselves where they are now.

Especially when they have more than one flashback.

[Princess Sparkle]

There's an OITNB Wiki that is pretty comprehensive.  If you go to the character, it'll have a little summary of what they're in for, with the charge underneath their picture.

[Anna Yolei]

On July 5, 2016 at 1:16 PM, RCharter said:

I was watching MSNBC Lock Up (which I love) and the warden at a womens facility basically said something to the effect of "most of the crimes the women commit were either about getting drugs or were over a man."

She said it much more judiciously than I said it -- but it was basically that.  And you would hear that a lot of these women were in there for killing an abusive man, or they were getting turned out for drugs, or they had to take to the streets to support a family, or that there was some jealousy over a man that caused them to act out, or that they were with a guy and both decided to go rogue.

Now, of course, I'm sure some of these women blame men in the hopes of getting a shorter sentence....but it seemed pretty telling.

I've heard the same thing, too, before.

[darkestboy]

It took me a little longer than usual but wow, the fourth season was the best one we've had.

- Piper's downfall/branding was hard stuff to watch. I did like that she and Alex patched things up.
- Poussey's death was horrific but her relationship with SoSo and final flashbacks were beautiful. 
- I felt for Bayley. The poor kid was distraught in his role in Poussey's death. What happened was horrible but it was a terrible accident.
- Caputo messed up royally though with the aftermath of it and I don't blame the women for rioting.
- Even though it'll mean getting max, I hope Daya shoots Humphreys and kills him.
- Piscatella, Humphrey, those new guards in general were absolutely the worst we've had on the show.
- Felt for Lolly and even Healy a little this season.
- Judy King was horrrible but amusing though, especially with her scenes with Black Cindy, Luschek and Yoga.
- Taystee had some great moments this season.
- The racial tension really escalated this season and it was seriously uncomfortable in parts too, which I guess was intentional.
- Doggett forgiving Coates is clearly going to lead to problems next season. He clearly isn't redeemable at all.
- I'm getting sick of Suzanne to be honest and Maria was thoroughly unpleasant as well.
- Flashbacks were stronger this season as well. There wasn't one I disliked but needless to say that Brooke, Maritza, Lolly, Suzanne and Poussey had the strongest ones this year. 
- Nicky and Sophia's returns were welcome. I hope there's more from the latter next season as well.
- Morello is scary when jealous and possessive, isn't she?