S03.E07: Ebb Tide

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Kaetenay has a vision of impending doom; Frankenstein and Jekyll get help from an unlikely foe; the Creature finally gains courage; Vanessa learns an awful truth.

[Primetimer]

Everyone on Penny Dreadful makes a big decision this week! Whose is the worst?

View the full article

[snowblossom2]

I'm glad the story is going in a new direction and not just a continuation of V saying no. I loved that she brought up Mina!

 

i still don't get Ethan's storyline. He was embracing evil with H, but once she died, he remembered V and the gang in London and rejects evil? Huh?

 

also, hate the Lily-Victor as MRA- and Dorian storyline. Why would Dorian want Lily reset? I thought he'd be intrigued by murdeourous prostitues?

[GenieinTX]

Out of everyone, I think I'm most afraid for Mr. Claire.  This show doesn't give happy endings.  His looks so sweet but I'm so worried the rug is going to be pulled out from under him next week.  Sure, the boy will die but will the show kill his wife too or something?  He deserves to be happy, but I don't trust it, not one bit.  And I was very surprised by the way Vanessa brought up the asylum.  It was very gentle and sweet and sad that he didn't remember.

As for Vanessa - well, if you are going to make a bad decision, why not do it with the sexy vampire that wants you badly?  Not a bad way to bring about the apocalypse if it is your destiny to do so. 

Lily - oh she is so going to take down those boys, but I agree with Dorian.  The house full of crazy women was getting a bit tedious.

[BuddhaBelly]

If the curtain closes on John Clare, I will be happy. I know happy endings are a big no-no in this world but let his go gently into the night.

I'm sure I say this every week but Ethan's story is pure frustration for me. It doesn't make any sense and it's seems like poor planning on PD's side where they normally don't have this issue. I don't get his relationship with Kaetenay. I don't get why Sir Malcolm never asked any details about Ethan's family massacre. I find it utterly frustrating and now we're going back to London and I'm 98% sure Kaetenay is going to die. 

Also, is Season 4 not happening because...

[MissL]

A few thoughts.

What I don't get is Ethan hanging with the man who brutally murdered his family and tricked him into helping him do it. What, does he consider them even or something?

Lily's house of cray cray is awful, Lily's speeches ARE boring and I don't blame Dorian for wanting them all out but I am properly horrified by 3 men chaining a woman in a room and wanting to tame her.

Why are they isolating Frankenstein from Vanessa? I thought they were friends too...I guess because he was a decent person with her and maybe would rethink this if he was around her?

I miss Mr Lyle and I don't see anything unique "cat" (I hate that nickname) is bringing to the table.

 I thought Patti lapone Believed Vanessa? Now she is calling her a split personality?

AND I'm pretty sure no matter how deep asleep I was I'd wake the hell up if someone sniffed and LICKED me. Ugh.

[numbnut]

Vanessa NOOOOO! She couldn't wait a few more days for Ethan? Dracula is neither scary nor sexy. I'm still scratching my head over the casting.

So Lily lost a daughter? She didn't seem broken up about it when she was dating Ethan. And why is Dorian suddenly put off? Didn't he initially approve the killing spree? How can he be bored if he hasn't yet led an army of killer whores? I was hoping that Lily's protege (name?) would slash Dorian just so he could shock everyone by healing.

Edited June 13, 2016 by numbnut

[sjohnson]

About Chandler, as he seems to be again: Killing Sembene doesn't matter any more. After all, Kaetenay is another melanin-rich dude who lives to serve, so it's just like Sembene has come to life. No crime to atone for, especially if you never quite get around to confessing to Malcolm. So now you can regret abandoning Vanessa for no reason at all. 

Since Vanessa is the most powerful character, though, it's unclear why leaving her was a Bad Thing. (By the way, hadn't Vanessa ruled out a romantic relationship in the cottage?) Ethan's brief detour to the dark side foreshadows Vanessa's I guess. Comes from nowhere, causes a lot of histrionic dialogue, then disappears back into nowhere, because, reasons. It would be a little disappointing if it came down to a sex-off between Josh Hartnett and Christian Camargo. No suspense there I think. 

Faithless husbands deserve to die? I should think the ones who are bothering other women would be this crew's favorite kind of husband. For me it is impossible to take seriously the proposition that mass murder is nothing in comparison to being a male chauvinist. Lily the anarchist feminist terrorist is a reactionary parody of revolution, as is, fundamentally I think, this show's notion of feminism. A notion of feminism that leads to the death penalty for adultery is very Old Testament, shockingly regressive.

Wonder if John Clare will tell the wife he tried to replace her? In this show I imagine that's far more unforgivable than a few murders. 

[rozen]

"Make you a proper woman." Ok Victor, officially want John Clare to come bite your throat out, you piece of shit. A mind-altering serum is novel to Dorian, of course he wants to see someone's true nature transmuted, it's not boring. And a malleable Lily will happily cavort about, making all his depraved dreams come true. Screw all of them, I hope Bedlam catches fire and they all die. 

Dorian is really the most dangerous character of the show. When he so amiably said he was bored, and complained about how noisy revolutions were, I knew shit was going to go down. I think the little kitten is going to find his portrait. Wouldn't it be funny if she stumbles over it, and decides it must be very valuable art because Dorian hides it, and slashes it to ribbons just out of jealousy? Because she's just that type of person. 

Katenay should have said Ethan was coming because he loves her. Because that's what she wants. A surrogate father, a dedicated friend, neither of are the things she was always starving for. But damn it, I'm pissed she fell for Dracula. Had she forgotten how he callously offered her soul to Lucifer, because he "didn't need it"? At least Lucifer's overtures were of romance and domination, Dracula's was always of pure possession. 

I bet John Clare's going to remember Vanessa and come for her, Dracula will try to take him out because isolation is his game, as the new Time Traveling Heroine has stated. His family will be collateral damage, and he'll plunge back into darkness.

Edited June 13, 2016 by rozen

[Glade]

So much love to John Claire!  I wish that this could be his happy ending, though his poor boy is sick and they are living in such poverty right now, they are still together and hopefully circumstances can change for the better.  I somehow doubt that Lily's band of homicidal sex-workers will really bring economic change to impoverished families (since many fathers may now be missing hands with which to work and provide for their children) despite what she said while semi-crashing that woman's funeral.    There's nothing progressive at all about Lily's actions, regardless of what she's saying.

I was very shocked by Dorian's timing, though not about his actions since he is bound to betray everyone in the end when he grows bored.  I do miss having the actual scene where he meets Dr. Jekyll, given the possibilities for flirting.  And I don't really like the way the three of them are being painted into such an unflattering corner.  Undoubtedly if one of his creatures did turn into a homicidal maniac due to his work, it's not really a bad thing for Victor to want to fix his mistake.  If/when Lily and her underlings were caught and arrested, this is what would happen.  What's wrong is that he is looking for love in this way. 

Seemingly Dorian doesn't actually care either way what Lily's ultimate personality would be or where she would want to live, he's just bored of being used and this could kill a few hours at any rate before he evicts the horde from his house.  I'm so sick of that entire storyline!!  I thought Victor would have finally moved on by this episode.  Please give him something better next season!  It seems obvious though that someone other then Lily is going to get injected with that serum, otherwise how could Mr. Hyde be born?

Vanessa's scenes with John Claire are always gold, and tonight was no exception.  I love that she was the one who encouraged him to take the leap, and that she brought up their past connection with such measured grace.  It was incredible when she mentioned Mina, and I am glad that they finally addressed why Dracula appears as a human and not as the monster from S1.  It does make a lot of sense, that after so many temptations, Vanessa would finally give herself over to the darkness.  I love that Ethan finally left America and is going home.  The less the original ensemble interacts with each other, and the more Billie Piper is featured, the less successful this show is.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Glade

[Cthulhudrew]

This episode was the first time I ever actually felt that Dorian's character was dangerous, and seemed to have potential that he has failed thus far to live up to or exhibit. The show has also done a remarkable thing in that it has made John Clare one of my favorite characters on the show, when I really couldn't stand him the last two seasons.

I prefer Mr. Lyle to Cat; she seems too forced, like they feel as if they have ground to make up for in her late introduction to the show, and it shows.

It feels like Vanessa gave in too easily to Dracula's temptation. And that "we're going to make you into a proper lady," ouch. That hurts. I hope those three come to a bad end. And I used to really like Victor...

[pele2102]

I get that Lily is feminism with rabies but I swear to God Viktor makes me wanna join rank with the crazies. If they do give her the serum I hope Lily is the Dr.Jekyll and something way worse and terrifying comes out of her. Also I want Dorian to die because he's been boring the ever loving shit out of me for 3 years now. 

[ElleMo]

17 hours ago, snowblossom2 said:

I'm glad the story is going in a new direction and not just a continuation of V saying no. I loved that she brought up Mina!

 

i still don't get Ethan's storyline. He was embracing evil with H, but once she died, he remembered V and the gang in London and rejects evil? Huh?

 

also, hate the Lily-Victor as MRA- and Dorian storyline. Why would Dorian want Lily reset? I thought he'd be intrigued by murdeourous prostitues?

Ethan's story line confuses me too. Was it ever explained why Katenay killed Ethan's family? And when he did so, why did he let the father live? And when/how did Ethan become a werewolf? And why is he hanging with the guy that killed his mother, little sister and brother?

Also, does Malcolm know that Ethan is a werewolf? Are we to assume that someone told him this off camera?

Edited June 13, 2016 by ElleMo

[ElleMo]

Out of everyone, I think I'm most afraid for Mr. Claire.  This show doesn't give happy endings.  His looks so sweet but I'm so worried the rug is going to be pulled out from under him next week.  Sure, the boy will die but will the show kill his wife too or something?  He deserves to be happy, but I don't trust it, not one bit.  And I was very surprised by the way Vanessa brought up the asylum.  It was very gentle and sweet and sad that he didn't remember.

As for Vanessa - well, if you are going to make a bad decision, why not do it with the sexy vampire that wants you badly?  Not a bad way to bring about the apocalypse if it is your destiny to do so. 

Lily - oh she is so going to take down those boys, but I agree with Dorian.  The house full of crazy women was getting a bit tedious.

I suspect that when his son dies his wife will pressure him to go to Victor and get him ressurected. And bad things will happen.

[BuddhaBelly]

I agree that when Victor is around Lily starts to make all kinds of sense. I'm ready for a permanent doctor switch mostly because were teased with lovely Jekyll and I'm not seeing enough of him.

Finally they've made good use of Dorian. Reeve Carney actually showed menace and showed all us he can actually be very, very dangerous. I was with him though on wanting all of them to get out of his house. I do think it's time to relocate the painting though.

I really am having a hard time believing that Vanessa would give in that easily.

[withanaich]

Quote

Lily's house of cray cray is awful, Lily's speeches ARE boring and I don't blame Dorian for wanting them all out but I am properly horrified by 3 men chaining a woman in a room and wanting to tame her.

Agreed. They're all just ... awful. Lily is tiresome, those women are batshit, Victor gets more and more appalling with every episode (I think I liked him better when he was strung out on drugs and babbling about poetry), and Dorian is still managing to be both boring and bored. And now he's using a steamroller for a problem he could have solved with a flyswatter. I am so over this storyline. Hello, just call the police and tell them a bunch of hookers took over your house, you only now escaped, and also BTW the cops might want to look into that rash of men getting their hands cut off (seriously, someone has to notice at some point!), because you have a PILE OF BLOODY HANDS on your dining room table. Whose word do you think they're going to take? Rich Victorian gentleman or pack of homicidal prostitutes? It's a salve for boredom, and it gets these crazy mofos out of your house.

Quote

And why is Dorian suddenly put off? Didn't he initially approve the killing spree? How can he be bored if he hasn't yet led an army of killer whores? 

That's the problem right there. He's not going to be allowed to lead, and he's now realizing this. He's being kept around as a fucktoy for Lily, and to provide room and board for a bunch of murderous women who are disrespecting the hell out of him in his own house. That shit got old real quick. 

Quote

 I somehow doubt that Lily's band of homicidal sex-workers will really bring economic change to impoverished families (since many fathers may now be missing hands with which to work and provide for their children) despite what she said while semi-crashing that woman's funeral.

Oh Lily is absolutely full of shit. Maybe some part of her believes what she's saying, about bringing about great change, but she's basically just out for revenge. And she did indeed crash that poor woman's funeral. I don't feel sorry for Lily just because we're all of a sudden being told about her dead baby. No one wants to hear a vague pitch for your revolution while they're standing over their child's grave. That woman didn't even know what to say. READ THE ROOM, LILY. And now Victor's creepy MRA mind-control scheme is almost tempting me to side with Lily and her brand of BS. Do not like.

Quote

Dracula is neither scary nor sexy. I'm still scratching my head over the casting.

Well, he's not supposed to be sexy or scary. He's supposed to be completely ordinary. Like Cat said, he lulled Vanessa into trusting him, wanting to protect him, thinking he was "safe." He wasn't going to get anywhere with a full-frontal assault of sex appeal and danger, so he hides in plain sight. Even now, he's still pretending he wants to serve her. And it's working. For now...

Edited June 13, 2016 by withanaich

[teddysmom]

I'm all for girl power but I have to side with Dorian on this one.   Maybe Lily should have considered finding her own club house for her Girl Power meetings.  I don't think Dorian and Victor's plan is going to work out as expected.  Agree with other posters that Reeve Carney finally got some good writing instead of just dancing around with Lily in the blood ballroom.  A

Was Evil Ethan under the throes of Hecate?  And is Vanessa really that naive to fall for Dracula's bullshit line?  Everything she's been through, and she buys this "I wanted to rule you but then I fell in love".   If we're using Bram Stoker's book as source material, Mina was his wife and true love, wouldn't she have been the Mother of All Evil? 

I'm wondering if Rory Kinnear is being written off the show and so they gave John Claire a happy ending with his family. 

I really wanted Dr. Seward to have a To Do List, and write on it "WTF is up with Renfield - Fire him tomorrow". 

Has PD been renewed for another season?  

Edited June 13, 2016 by teddysmom

[Bort]

1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

I really wanted Dr. Seward to have a To Do List, and write on it "WTF is up with Renfield - Fire him tomorrow". 

On the bright side, I'm sure Seward's office has been blessedly rodent and insect-free. 

[RedheadZombie]

12 hours ago, BuddhaBelly said:

I'm sure I say this every week but Ethan's story is pure frustration for me. It doesn't make any sense and it's seems like poor planning on PD's side where they normally don't have this issue. I don't get his relationship with Kaetenay. I don't get why Sir Malcolm never asked any details about Ethan's family massacre. I find it utterly frustrating and now we're going back to London and I'm 98% sure Kaetenay is going to die. 

The writing is certainly not up to previous standards.  So many unanswered questions, and no evidence that the characters realize it.  Still no answers as to who cursed Ethan?  He was going to kill Kaetenay on sight.  He left Kaetenay to die in the desert.  Now Ethan is expressing love for the guy?  It's an unearned transition, it's poor writing, and it's frustrating.

11 hours ago, numbnut said:

Vanessa NOOOOO! She couldn't wait a few more days for Ethan? Dracula is neither scary nor sexy. I'm still scratching my head over the casting.

So Lily lost a daughter? She didn't seem broken up about it when she was dating Ethan. And why is Dorian suddenly put off? Didn't he initially approve the killing spree? How can he be bored if he hasn't yet led an army of killer whores? I was hoping that Lily's protege (name?) would slash Dorian just so he could shock everyone by healing.

l wasn't sure if Kaetenay actually communicated with Vanessa, or if that was simply a vision.  She didn't seem to realize they were coming to her.

As to Lily, I think the dead baby is a ret-con.  I'm willing to buy her grief, but she could be saving these starving children with all the money she's blowing on these ridiculous parties.  I felt for her more last night than I have since she revealed her true Lily self, but I don't believe she has true concern for helping these women and children.  She simply wants to destroy the men.

11 hours ago, sjohnson said:

About Chandler, as he seems to be again: Killing Sembene doesn't matter any more. After all, Kaetenay is another melanin-rich dude who lives to serve, so it's just like Sembene has come to life. No crime to atone for, especially if you never quite get around to confessing to Malcolm. So now you can regret abandoning Vanessa for no reason at all. 

I completely understand where you're coming from, but Ethan attempted to kill himself and Sembene stopped him.  They've never made it clear what Malcolm understands about Semeben's death and Ethan's part in it, and it's extremely frustrating.  Do we know that Malcolm even knows about Ethan's wolf side?

I think the writing has done no favors with both Ethan and Vanessa this season.  Giving themselves over to evil after fighting it so hard is devastating.  And Ethan's quick reversal is confusing.  Are we supposed to believe that Hecate cast a spell that was ended by her death?  I don't know.

[RedheadZombie]

11 hours ago, Glade said:

So much love to John Claire!  I wish that this could be his happy ending, though his poor boy is sick and they are living in such poverty right now, they are still together and hopefully circumstances can change for the better.  I somehow doubt that Lily's band of homicidal sex-workers will really bring economic change to impoverished families (since many fathers may now be missing hands with which to work and provide for their children) despite what she said while semi-crashing that woman's funeral.    There's nothing progressive at all about Lily's actions, regardless of what she's saying.

I was very shocked by Dorian's timing, though not about his actions since he is bound to betray everyone in the end when he grows bored.  I do miss having the actual scene where he meets Dr. Jekyll, given the possibilities for flirting.  And I don't really like the way the three of them are being painted into such an unflattering corner.  Undoubtedly if one of his creatures did turn into a homicidal maniac due to his work, it's not really a bad thing for Victor to want to fix his mistake.  If/when Lily and her underlings were caught and arrested, this is what would happen.  What's wrong is that he is looking for love in this way. 

Seemingly Dorian doesn't actually care either way what Lily's ultimate personality would be or where she would want to live, he's just bored of being used and this could kill a few hours at any rate before he evicts the horde from his house.  I'm so sick of that entire storyline!!  I thought Victor would have finally moved on by this episode.  Please give him something better next season!  It seems obvious though that someone other then Lily is going to get injected with that serum, otherwise how could Mr. Hyde be born?

Lily's story line makes me feel the need to turn in my feminist card.  I'm just not feeling her pain.  For the first time I did feel her horror when she realized she was chained.  She's a homicidal maniac, but seeing her chained while three men calmly tell her their plans was horrifying.  I agree about Victor trying to fix his mistake.  Caliban made it very clear to Victor what it was like to be resurrected and abandoned.  And I think Victor realizes that's what led Caliban to become a killer.  Clearly Victor selfishly wants Lily to be sweet Lily again because he wants her to love him, but he honestly thinks she would be happier that way.  What he probably needs to do is kill her, but that's expecting a lot.  It doesn't help that she sends him mixed signals.  Even Lily doesn't truly hate Victor for what he did.  The actor who portrays Victor tugs on my heart so much.  I can't hate him but he'd be far happier if he and Lily had a suicide pact.  It's another example of the gang going to shit when they're separated.

10 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I prefer Mr. Lyle to Cat; she seems too forced, like they feel as if they have ground to make up for in her late introduction to the show, and it shows.

I liked Cat more last night.  We need a decent female that Vanessa can hang with.  Dr. Seward has unintentionally wrought devastation.  Her advice led Vanessa to Dracula, and her ridiculous tapes feed Dracula's ability to manipulate Vanessa.

4 hours ago, ElleMo said:

I suspect that when his son dies his wife will pressure him to go to Victor and get him ressurected. And bad things will happen.

More suffering.  I think I prefer a happy ending and not seeing him again.  Someone needs a happy ending.  And it's not even a true happy ending - his son is dying and they live in abject poverty.  But that's a happy ending PD style.

2 hours ago, teddysmom said:

   If we're using Bram Stoker's book as source material, Mina was his wife and true love, wouldn't she have been the Mother of All Evil? 

That's always confused me.  It seems that Mina was actually Lucy, and Vanessa is Mina.  Which would make Malcolm Lucy's father.  So confusing.  I'm not sure why the switch.

[luckyroll3]

4 hours ago, withanaich said:

 

Quote

And why is Dorian suddenly put off? Didn't he initially approve the killing spree? How can he be bored if he hasn't yet led an army of killer whores? 

That's the problem right there. He's not going to be allowed to lead, and he's now realizing this. He's being kept around as a fucktoy for Lily, and to provide room and board for a bunch of murderous women who are disrespecting the hell out of him in his own house. That shit got old real quick. 

Dorian's problem is that Lily's plan only targets a select few, whereas he wants domination over all mankind.  Also, he has all these ungrateful assholes living off him, including one who regularly threatens to kill him.  Pains in the ass, all of them.  Although, as someone said up thread, Dorian was quite scary in his retort to the Kitten (is that her name?).  I want to see him be more menacing.  I was also really hoping that Dorian would be the reincarnation of one of the evil brothers seeking out Vanessa, but I guess they've blown past that.

Also, what a joke with those three men threatening to make Lily a "proper woman".  Fucking men.  That was the wrong shit to say to her, and as much as I can't stand Lily and all her pontifications, I wouldn't mind seeing her get her revenge on these fuckers. 

Very happy to see John Clare reunite with his family, after truly great advice from Vanessa (take your own advice lady!).

I also didn't see Vanessa giving in so easily, but Dracula said exactly what she wanted/needed to hear. 

[redapplecigs]

I never thought I'd live to see the day that I heartily rooted for Lily to triumph. But then I watched that scene with her chained while 3 men tell her how they plan to "save" her, to remake her into their respective ideals for a woman (and promptly threw up a little bit in my mouth).  I want her to destroy each of them and their smug senses of self-satisfaction. Does anyone know is she has Caliban/Clare's superhuman strength? If so, that chain won't hold her for long.

Dorian is still a boring, non-entity to me, so I won't miss him if he dies. We've barely had a chance to know Dr. Jekyl, so it's a big "meh" to me if he dies. I don't think I can ever like or enjoy Victor again after this. He is totally repulsive to me now.

Ethan's story continues to make no sense to me. I truly believe it was a mistake to separate the main players from each other all season long.

Vanessa looked lovely as always last night. I too was surprised by her giving in to Dracula with so little fuss. But as someone upthread mentioned, season after season of Vanessa just saying no to evil is certainly a bit tedious.

I am also surprised to find that I desperately want a happy ending for John Clare. His scene with Vanessa was so lovely, as were his scenes with his family. I would hate to lose the actor, but maybe one fucking character on this show can exit stage left with a bright future ahead.

Looking forward to seeing the gang all together again.

[snowblossom2]

Do we know how Kaetenay survived? I'm the desert he looked like he would die soon

[LadyChaos]

So....I just started watching Penny Dreadful on Friday and now I'm all caught up......having watched the entire series in 3 days(I had a long weekend to do nothing after working 8 days, so I wanted to do nothing). Here are somethings:

At the beginning the one character that board me the most was Ethan, it was very clear right off the bat that he was to be the love interest, but I didn't see what other purpose he had on the show.  In season 1, in my opinion, his purpose was to establish him as one of the core group and to tie Brona into the show.  TPTB felt it necessary that we had to see her before she became Lily. After s1 finale he was finally interesting to me, he is a werewolf, he had a purpose and a story to tell. At the season 2 finale, out of guilt for what he is, he told Vanessa that his place was 'deep in the earth on top of an old forgotten hill'.  He was telling her that he deserved to die and so he turned himself in, he even asked the Inspector to make sure it was quick. He essentially was going to commit suicide, only he is thwarted by getting sent back state side instead where he is forced to face his past.  While I think that his story is full of a few plot holes and a bit of inconsistency, what I believe it came down to is that Hecate saw a weakness in him and exploited it.  He was tired of fighting his nature as a werewolf, and tired of the guilt he carries, so after day's of traveling with someone constantly telling him to 'let it go, give into it' while heading towards a man he hates more than the devil himself, he finally caves.  However ultimately, seeing Sir Malcolm reminded him that he couldn't give into it. Sir Malcolm tells him he believes he is still a good man, with a good heart, and a soul.  I believe that he didn't kill Kaetenay for the same reason he didn't kill his true father, because he knew that was a line he couldn't cross, and now Kaetenay travels with him because he puts his anger aside knowing that Vanessa is in danger and he needs all the men he can get.

He still interests me though, and I still have many questions.  The main one being: How did he become the hound of God? Did he know before season 2, or not?  I suspect that he will be the one to get through to Vanessa though.

I understand where Vanessa is too.  After s2 ended, she was vulnerable and needed her family around her, but they all abandoned her even the ones in that stayed in the City.  Frankenstein, so caught up in 'fixing Lily' he never stopped to visit Vanessa. She was left to wallow in her mind, with no one there for support, and there was Dracula to pick up the pieces of her broken heart.  He had Renfield feeding him all the info from her sessions so he knew just what weaknesses to hit.  He wasn't seductive, sexy, or apparently dangerous like someone above stated.  However, what he was makes him even more deadly.  As Cat said he took up nondescript forms so people wouldn't notice him until he was ready.  His danger came in knowing how to use the information that he acquired to his advantage.  He gave her what she has desperately wanted: to be loved.  So, even knowing what he really was, she gave in for the same reason Ethan gave in to Hecate, she was tired of fighting her nature, and tired of feeling that she is unworthy of love.

I don't really have much to say about Victor and Lily other than I'm tired of them both and they both need to die.  If Dorian were really smart, he would kill her and that little brat and be done with it.  I like Dorian though,  I agree that I believe we are just starting to see his true potential. I saw a post somewhere else about how Lily is very hypocritical because she picked up this crusade to kill all men but without Dorian she would be homeless and unable to start this 'revolution'.  I don't blame him teaming up with Victor and Hyde, I saw it coming, because really he was now a guest in his own home that had been turned into a wayward shelter for Lily's murdering whore's. I hope the resolution we get is that Lily gets loose, kills Victor, then Hyde ends infected with his serum, turns into a rage monster, kills her, and then takes Victor's spot on the show. I like Dr. Hydes possibilities for storylines better. And in my opinion the 'make you into a proper woman' was signing his death warrant because even a mild mannered woman would probably want to kill him for that.

In truth, if a s4 happens, I suspect we see some casting changes. The ratings, are lower this season than the previous one so I see a lot of skeptical articles about whether or not it will be renewed. So, if they do renew it, I image that they will try to reboot it in a fashion.  Take away their weak storylines and focus on their stronger characters to draw back viewers.

[LadyChaos]

8 hours ago, teddysmom said:

I'm all for girl power but I have to side with Dorian on this one.   Maybe Lily should have considered finding her own club house for her Girl Power meetings.  I don't think Dorian and Victor's plan is going to work out as expected.  Agree with other posters that Reeve Carney finally got some good writing instead of just dancing around with Lily in the blood ballroom.  A

Was Evil Ethan under the throes of Hecate?  And is Vanessa really that naive to fall for Dracula's bullshit line?  Everything she's been through, and she buys this "I wanted to rule you but then I fell in love".   If we're using Bram Stoker's book as source material, Mina was his wife and true love, wouldn't she have been the Mother of All Evil? 

I'm wondering if Rory Kinnear is being written off the show and so they gave John Claire a happy ending with his family. 

I really wanted Dr. Seward to have a To Do List, and write on it "WTF is up with Renfield - Fire him tomorrow". 

Has PD been renewed for another season?  

It has not been renewed yet. Their over all ratings, while taking big swings, are down again which is not good.  However they are not showtimes lowest rated show, that is House of Lies, and they still keep that around.  So we will see.

 

17 hours ago, numbnut said:

Vanessa NOOOOO! She couldn't wait a few more days for Ethan? Dracula is neither scary nor sexy. I'm still scratching my head over the casting.

So Lily lost a daughter? She didn't seem broken up about it when she was dating Ethan. And why is Dorian suddenly put off? Didn't he initially approve the killing spree? How can he be bored if he hasn't yet led an army of killer whores? I was hoping that Lily's protege (name?) would slash Dorian just so he could shock everyone by healing.

Dorian's problem wasn't about being sick with her plan. It was that it was not their original plan.  He wanted to elevate the select few that were unique like him and Lily. He doesn't care about race, sex, creed, or preference.  He wants to unite the preternatural to rule the world.  Lily wants to arm all the whores and kill all the men and have women rule the world, and while doing do made a big mistake. Dorian would have helped her.  However when she treated him like a guest in his own home, and cast him aside. He was done with her.

[Rina99]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

It has not been renewed yet. Their over all ratings, while taking big swings, are down again which is not good.  However they are not showtimes lowest rated show, that is House of Lies, and they still keep that around.  So we will see.

Eh, well, they actually cancelled House of Lies, the finale just aired.  

[LadyChaos]

33 minutes ago, Rina99 said:

Eh, well, they actually cancelled House of Lies, the finale just aired.  

yeah, but House of Lies had 5 seasons.....so they may give this another season yet...hopefully.....there s4 ratings are about the same as s3 of PD

Edited June 14, 2016 by LadyChaos

[gik910]

I just keep thinking Dorian threw over beautiful, kind, loving, sweet Angelique for this lot.  

I felt really cheated by the Vanessa/Ethan scene.  Just a vision.  BOOOOOO!!!

I miss Mr. Lyle- I hope we get a 4th season with The Mummy.  It would be amazing.  I just need the main cast back together- this season is really lacking cohesiveness.    

Edited June 14, 2016 by gik910

[LadyChaos]

8 minutes ago, gik910 said:

I just keep thinking Dorian threw over beautiful, kind, loving, sweet Angelique for this lot.  

I felt really cheated by the Vanessa/Ethan scene.  Just a vision.  BOOOOOO!!!

I miss Mr. Lyle- I hope we get a 4th season with The Mummy.  It would be amazing.  I just need the main cast back together- this season is really lacking cohesiveness.    

I would love a mummy curse....eventually it has to be about fighting something other than the brothers trying to seduce Vanessa. Mr. Lyle was a nice tertiary character that I would like to have back......I haven't made my mind up about Cat, I'm not sure who she is supposed to be.

I agree, I feel cheated too, I needed to be true. 

[Neurochick]

I thought it was an interesting parallel Victor/Lily and Vanessa/Dracula.  Victor wants Lily to be different, to be something other than what she is; while Dracula told Vanessa that he loves her BECAUSE of who she is.  I can almost understand why Vanessa allowed herself to be seduced by Dracula.  It's seductive for someone to love you because of who you are, instead of in spite of who you are.

When Dorian, Victor and Jeckyl had Lily chained and told her that they were going to take away all her hate, I remembered an episode of 60 Minutes; I believe it was a drug (maybe a cancer medication?) that was given to people who'd suffered trauma and this drug made them forget the trauma.  So I wondered, if someone suffered deep trauma, would they want to forget it, or would they want to remember?

[attica]

When Lily was exhorting her girl posse to Rise Up! I totally started singing that bit from Hamilton. "Tell your brother that he's got to Rise Up! Tell your sister that she's got to Rise Up! When are these colonies gonna Rise Up! Rise Up! Rise Up!" [/Tony winners]

My blood ran cold when the trio chained Lily up to make her a 'proper woman.' So much rage.

[LadyChaos]

Since they still say Amunet is what resides inside Vanessa, it would be interesting to see s4 explore an orgin story, maybe in an attempt to excorcise that which draws the devil and Dracula to her.

[raven]

19 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I prefer Mr. Lyle to Cat; she seems too forced, like they feel as if they have ground to make up for in her late introduction to the show, and it shows.

I have an irrational dislike of Cat because she has taken screentime away from Mr. Lyle, who I would much rather have around but has disappeared to Egypt (I know, I know, mummy).  I realize he  would want to know why Vanessa has questions about Dracula and wouldn't leave her if he were worried though.  It is disappointing because at least last season he could explain and exposit yet still be involved in the story and the action.  Here we have Cat walk, in, exposit and walk out again.  PD can do better with its characters.

Vanessa and John Clare's brief scene together was so good - the right amount of caring, encouraging friendship.  I didn't know Vanessa made the orderly/John Clare connection.  John Clare telling his wife that he's been cruel and unworthy and that the sun would never shine so bright because he walked in darkness...then when his son takes his hand...may have had something in my eye there. 

Dorian is OVER it.  He actually made a plan and was threatening instead of just being dull.  Can't blame him for not wanting bloody hands and hangers on in his mansion any longer.  I can't be on board with Lily's "cut off their hands" plan - and I guess that's pretty easy to do?  Who knew.  I do think Billie Piper is compelling though.   That scene of those three skinny guys smugly lording it over her while she's chained, so they can make her "better" - or in Dorian's case, solve a problem - was gross and infuriating.  That's the thing I like about this show - you can be all "NO, don't do that" while still getting why they do it.  I am hoping for a change of heart from Victor and for Jekyll to have something more to do.

I'm just gong to wave away the whole Ethan/Kaetenay thing (bad form, PD writers).  Maybe it wasn't Kaetenay himself who killed Ethan's family, it was his people?  Weak point on the part of the show but I'm going to let it pass because it means I get Malcolm/Kaetenay/Ethan scenes and conversations like these:

Kaetenay:  Does she have a feeling for things not of this earth?  Malcolm and Ethan in unison, without hesitation: Yes!    (hee!)

Kaetenay to Ethan:  I can see why you love her..but she is damned.  Ethan (with the perfectly timed head turn and ten yard stare):  Not while I walk this earth.  Me:  *swoon*

Give in Vanessa!  Why not, everyone left you.  We know it won't be permanent and I want to see those creatures/end of days.

Renfield is creepy as hell.  Yeesh. 

Edited June 14, 2016 by raven

[LadyChaos]

21 minutes ago, raven said:

 

Renfield is creepy as hell.  Yeesh. 

I'm surprised Dracula didn't break his neck and feed him to the others for licking Van

[clack]

The writing has gone way too big and broad this season. Vanessa the Mother of Evil who shall bring about The End of Days, no less. I miss the Monster Hunter team of the first 2 seasons, when our protagonists were larger-than-life, yes, but still human-scaled, rather than avatars of God-like forces battling for the fate of the universe.

The feminist angle to Lily's storyline is embarrassingly heavy-handed. The men kidnap and chain her, want to make her into a demure "proper woman". Get it? It's the Patriarchy, sisters, wanting to tie us down! 

And what the fuck with Dracula? Could his characterization be any more flat and bland? Logan had interesting takes on Frankenstein, the monster, the werewolf, the psychic, and the gentleman explorer, but his powers of invention have seemingly deserted him when coming up with his version of Dracula.

[RedHackle]

 I found this episode a bit problematic too. Why oh why do we have to give Lily a dead daughter to mourn and be the impetus of her moral outrage? Like being a woman can't be enough on its own, we have to bring out the dead child trope.  Bleh.

And during her speech to her minions, why did she have to be on her hands and knees, doing the stripper crawl, while delivering it? Whatever the writers were aiming at, they missed.

And yes, please bring back our fearless vampire-and-demon killer team - we don't have to go all end of the world Mother of the Apocalypse, do we?

John Clare's reunion with his family broke my heart.  Terrible tragedy and doom to befall them in 3....2....1

[WaltersHair]

I think part of the problem I'm having with the series is the conceit that if Vanessa gives into her dark side the world as we know it will END, dum dum dum. As 21rst century beings we know this will not happen, so the idea has no power. It's like watching a series about the civil war and there's a constant threat the South could win.

There are so many good ideas being put forth this season, but they're landing like lead balloons all over the place. Did Ethan change even once in America? It would take months to make those journeys and the only reason I can see he went was to get the father business out of the way. And where is Hecate's magical book of evil that she closed and packed up at the end of last season?

I was under the impression that the Egyptian creatures from season one were entirely different from the classic Dracula we're seeing now. And yes, both Ethan and Vanessa gave it up way too fast.

I don't know, but I'm frustrated this season.

[Cthulhudrew]

Ethan did change at least once in America, in the saloon.

[LittleIggy]

How stupid is Vanessa to not just shoot the guy but instead to wait and let him use his silver tongue to seduce her. I found the John Claire and Lily/Dorian/Victor storylines more interesting. If there is another season of PD, please no more "Perils of Vanessa"!

[Tech Noir]

Quote

Dracula is neither scary nor sexy. I'm still scratching my head over the casting.

Quote

Well, he's not supposed to be sexy or scary. He's supposed to be completely ordinary.

 

Erm. I actually find him VERY attractive but it looks like I'm alone in that.

[RedheadZombie]

Does anyone think Ethan is looking distractingly like Josh Brolin this season?  It's uncanny how similar they are.

3 hours ago, raven said:

Kaetenay to Ethan:  I can see why you love her..but she is damned.  Ethan (with the perfectly timed head turn and ten yard stare):  Not while I walk this earth.  Me:  *swoon*

Oh my yes.  That was certainly swoon-worthy.  What a waste of a season to have them separated.  Even if the relationship is never consummated, I need them together as friends.

[LadyChaos]

6 hours ago, Tech Noir said:

 

Erm. I actually find him VERY attractive but it looks like I'm alone in that.

No, I find him attractive too.

 

5 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

  What a waste of a season to have them separated. 

I agree, but it was bound to happen eventually, because he would have had to go face his past eventually.  They just should have brought Ethan and Sir Malcolm back about episode 5, really 4 would have been better.

[Netfoot]

Pretty awful, the three guys wanting to change Lily, cure her, and make her better.  Because her plans to have an army of women rise up and mutilate/murder men,  ... isn't the least bit in need of changing or cure.

[Dobian]

I don't know, to me the whole Vanessa story is more romantic fantasy than anything else.  "Seduce me, now I am evil...until my white knights come to my rescue, not to save the world, but because they are jealous of you!  And once they seduce me back, you can seduce me again!"

I still love John Claire, though like others I fear a bad end is coming from this family reunion.

[iMonrey]

Quote

It's seductive for someone to love you because of who you are, instead of in spite of who you are.

But . . . who is she? Honestly, I know I keep harping on this, but I'm so over Vanessa because it seems like she's this:

Quote

Vanessa the Mother of Evil who shall bring about The End of Days, no less.

Which - yeah, but what?? How can she be the "mother of evil?" Wouldn't that make Dracula and Satan her children? I mean, they came first, not her. I just don't understand why every devil and demon in the world is obsessed with her and I'm tired of every season revolving around her never-ending fight against The Darkness Trying To Own Her.

Moreover, after three seasons of this she goes right from "I hate you, Dracula! You tricked me!" to "Oh I give up, I'mma be me" in about three minutes. My head is spinning.

I mean - she spent how many years in a mental institution, suffering tortures of the damned, resisting all this evil, and now all of a sudden she's "fuck it, go ahead and bite me?" Whatevs.

 

Quote

The feminist angle to Lily's storyline is embarrassingly heavy-handed. The men kidnap and chain her, want to make her into a demure "proper woman". Get it? It's the Patriarchy, sisters, wanting to tie us down! 

I agree it was heavy-handed, and disturbing to watch. Which I'm sure was the main point. This is Penny Dreadful and the 1890s after all. The show has no obligation to promote female empowerment.

Edited June 14, 2016 by iMonrey

[islandgal140]

I will say that this episode felt more like the Penny Dreadful I fell in love with as opposed to the last few episodes this season, but it was definitely problematic in some ways.

A backstory with no backstory. How dreadful! The writers did the character of Ethan no favors. If nothing else, they made him look like tofu, who basically takes on the flavor of whomever he finds himself in extended company with. With the US armed forces, a Native American slaughterer; with Native Americans a white slaughterer who inadvertently get his own family killed; with doomed hooker with a heart of gold Brona, he is the epitome of a romantic figure and prostitute whisperer; with adventurer Sir Malcolm, Vanessa and crew a hero; with demon Hecate he renounces his God and all Hail Satan; now he managed the tricky u-turn back into hero and is on a slow boat back to England to save Vanessa. My head is spinning. The only thing that could cleanse my palate of this mess of a storyline is a full blown love scene between Ethan and Dorian. Don't think I have forgotten show! And I do mean a full love scene with no cut away or quick scene ending to make you wonder if they actually did it. If they could gives us a Lily, Dorian and new murderous girl threesome, which no one asked for, they could give me this. LOL!

There were not enough eye rolls and expletives in the world for the Ethan/Kaetenay scene where Kaetenay said that Ethan was the hero Native American that all the prophesies speak of. 

Small observation - I never truly realized how small and deep set Josh Harnett's eyes were until this episode.

I don't mind Cat, although I do think she looks quite modern for the times, however , I would prefer her as an addition to the team and not a Lyle replacement. I wonder if she will somehow wind up being a relation or pupil of Van Helsing. I really was upset S1 when they killed Van Helsing out of the blue and I have been wishing they would find a way to incorporate either a descendant or a pupil of his into the show. 

The actor playing Renfield is really a standout. His scene opposite LuPone was so good. His facial expressions and body language were the very definition of creepy. Did Dracula actually turn him into a vampire? I remember Renfield feeding off Dracula but I don't know if that is what turns people? Renfield drinks blood and is crawling around and just plain acting weirdly but is he just a crazy familiar or a full blown vampire?

Soooo.. did the prostitutes just take hands or did they also kill their Johns? 

I want to know what Dracula's true form is like.

I for one was shocked, SHOCKED!! when Vanessa said yes to Dracula. That was a twist I was not expecting, at least not so soon after finding out. I screamed GURL NO!!! at the screen. 

Edited June 14, 2016 by islandgal140

[withanaich]

11 minutes ago, islandgal140 said:

There were not enough eye rolls and expletives in the world for the Ethan/Kaetenay scene where Kaetenay said that Ethan was the hero Native American that all the prophesies speak of. 

Yes, seriously. Of course the Apache we've all been waiting for, the one who's going to save the world according to years of prophecy ... is a white dude with daddy issues. That trope needs to die. Die, die, die.

Quote

The actor playing Renfield is really a standout. His scene opposite LuPone was so good. His facial expressions and body language were the very definition of creepy. Did Dracula actually turn him into a vampire? I remember Renfield feeding off Dracula but I don't know if that is what turns people? Renfield drinks blood and is crawling around and just plain acting weirdly but is he just a crazy familiar or a full blown vampire?

That's actually one of the things I'm not clear on, and I'm not sure if it's because of bad writing or if they're intentionally drawing out a reveal. My guess would be that he's not a full-blown vampire, that he's just to the point where he's addicted to the blood and that's how Dracula keeps him hanging on, in hopes that he can be fully turned. Then again, the usual marker for "not a vampire" of daywalking doesn't apply here, so who knows? Maybe Renfield is just absolutely insane and likes to wriggle in and out of rooms on his stomach and lick women while they sleep.

[sjohnson]

3 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Pretty awful, the three guys wanting to change Lily, cure her, and make her better.  Because her plans to have an army of women rise up and mutilate/murder men,  ... isn't the least bit in need of changing or cure.

The show has made it perfectly clear that pile of hands was a feel good moment for women, and that Victor Frankenstein is the vilest monster of all because of the way he's treated "Lily." I think they're making feminism look bad. I'm afraid I no longer think that little speech condescending to the suffragists was meant as dramatic irony.

22 minutes ago, islandgal140 said:

A backstory with no backstory. How dreadful! The writers did the character of Ethan no favors. If nothing else, they made him look like tofu, who basically takes on the flavor of whomever he finds himself in extended company with. With the US armed forces, a Native American slaughterer; with Native Americans a white slaughterer who inadvertently get his own family killed; with doomed hooker with a heart of gold Brona, he is the epitome of a romantic figure and prostitute whisperer; with adventurer Sir Malcolm, Vanessa and crew a hero; with demon Hecate he renounces his God and all Hail Satan; now he managed the tricky u-turn back into hero and is on a slow boat back to England to save Vanessa. My head is spinning...

There were not enough eye rolls and expletives in the world for the Ethan/Kaetenay scene where Kaetenay said that Ethan was the hero Native American that all the prophesies speak of. 

 

It's all about the Eva Green and the Eva Green chewing the scenery. If that requires rewriting "Ethan" multiple times, so be it. The Showtime execs know most people love only the Eva Green, so the Eva Green we get. As for the Dorian/Ethan absinthe hallucination? Didn't happen, and Lucifer was lying when he referred to it. And anyhow, Vanessa Ives no more remembers people, events or revelations when inconvenient to the plot than she has psychic revelations that would get in the way of big suffering scenes, big mad scenes or lurid sex scenes. 

Poor Wes Studi is probably worried about his house being repossessed by the bank to do this role.

[polyhymnia]

On 6/13/2016 at 9:04 AM, teddysmom said:

I really wanted Dr. Seward to have a To Do List, and write on it "WTF is up with Renfield - Fire him tomorrow". 

That look she gave him when she started paying attention to his nonsense.  Priceless.

[WaltersHair]

Quote

But . . . who is she? Honestly, I know I keep harping on this, but I'm so over Vanessa

I've read all your posts and was in mild agreement until the past few episodes. Now I'm fully on board.

Of course this is Vanessa's show and I want it to be, but she has the same damn plot every. single. season. And where is her struggle with faith? That was one of the hooks for me.

And all law enforcement everywhere must be on vacation because multiple murders of marshals in the old west and about 20 handless Johns in Victorian England must not be newsworthy.

If Vanessa falls for the handsome, ancient, but ultimately evil mummy Mr. Lyle brings back next season (pure speculation), I'm out.