Black Panther (2018)

[wanderingstar]

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 I thought T’Challa and Nakia had oodles of chemistry together and was happy to see black coupling on screen despite how Will Smith famously said Hollywood purposely casts non-black women as romantic leads for black actors to avoid the “black movie” label. I found their scenes with each other sweet and sexy. 

Yes Yes YES! Loved all of the T'Challa/Nakia scenes. And I particularly loved them holding hands at the end when T'Challa was walking in to give his speech at the UN. Talk about a power couple!

[VCRTracking]

19 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

What "White Wolf" means in Black Panther comic lore.

That version is a little too close to Loki for them to do it in the movies. Although Loki had no idea he was adopted until he was an adult, while Hunter obviously did. I'm glad they made Bucky the MCU "White Wolf".

[Athena]

3 hours ago, charmed1 said:

I thought T’Challa and Nakia had oodles of chemistry together and was happy to see black coupling on screen despite how Will Smith famously said Hollywood purposely casts non-black women as romantic leads for black actors to avoid the “black movie” label. I found their scenes with each other sweet and sexy. 

Agreed. I went to see it with a Barbadian friend of mine who noted that, "Usually they cast women who are lighter skinned than the male lead for their romantic interest, but it's nice they cast a woman who was actually darker than him!" 

[SimoneS]

Ryan Coogler wrote a letter to the fans.

http://deadline.com/2018/02/black-panther-ryan-coogler-marvel-studios-thank-you-letter-diversity-inclusion-1202297192/

Edited February 21, 2018 by SimoneS

[Lantern7]

3 hours ago, dusang said:

Roy Wood Jr.  Roy Moore is a very different animal.

I claim keyboard dyslexia. Sorry about that.

Question: Is there a way for me white people me to show tangible love (re: merch) for Black Panther without looking like an appropriating tool? I jumped on that bandwagon when Priest wrote the series. Doesn't make me THE greatest T'Challa fan, but I feel pleased that he's getting so much love these days.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Lantern7

[Katsullivan]

On 19/02/2018 at 8:28 AM, Empress1 said:

On 19/02/2018 at 7:40 AM, doram said:

Wakanda's survival is entirely due to its isolationist policies. In Real-Earth, it would only be a matter of time before the region becomes destabilised like Zaire/Congo, Nigeria and every other intrinsically wealthy. T'Challa will go the way of Patrice Lumumba, Tolbert and every African leader that has dared to have a nationalist policy. The exodus of White people into Wakanda, and the ensuing apartheid will make South African look like child's play.

Yes, I was fearful. I was thinking, "white people tend not to like it when Black people are richer and/or smarter than they are."

#LiberateWakanda #BringDemocracyToWakanda2018 

[Enigma X]

58 minutes ago, doram said:

Speaking for myself, I don't see how it's appropriation in the least. I certainly don't feel I'm appropriating when I buy my white-majority fandom merchandise. Show tangible love for the movie, regardless of race. That, I strongly believe, is the whole point of this - to show that a movie directed by and starring minorities appeals to everyone, not just to the minorities it represents.

Yeah. I see nothing wrong even as dressing up as one of these futuristic characters. I mean don't don black face or anything,.

[anna0852]

This is a really relevant question for me. My 7 year old Caucasian niece thinks the Dora Milaje are the most amazing thing ever. She desperately wants to be one for Halloween. And I don't know if it's okay to let her dress up like she wants or if it will be seen as cultural appropriation and racial insensitivity. I absolutely don't want to teach her racist behaviour but at the same time her desire for this particular costume is because she thinks these characters are so amazing. She isn't seeing skin color, she just sees kick ass women that she wants to emulate.

[Lantern7]

Yeah, of course. I was thinking about t-shirts and the like. To be honest, I don't have many "geek" shirts; the only one with an emblem is the Green Lantern insignia as part of Kyle Rayner's outfit as redesigned by Jim Lee. I'm just thinking there is no way in hell I could wear a "WAKANDA FOREVER" t-shirt in public without side-eyes.

Black Panther Annual #1 came out today, with stories from Christopher Priest, Don McGregor, and Reginald Hudlin. The issue also has information on the trade paperbacks featuring Black Panther from all three writers .

[Dee]

“Black Panther” and the Invention of “Africa”

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Like the comics on which they are based, the Marvel movies, in general, have not shied away from political concerns. “Captain America: The Winter Soldier,” released in 2014, grapples with ideas of preëmptive warfare, drones, and the surveillance state, as elements of the war on terror. The first “Iron Man” film, from 2008, addressed war profiteering and arms contractors at a time when the United States was still heavily involved in Iraq.

Yet nothing in Marvel’s collection of films is or could be political in the same way as “Black Panther,” because, in those other stories, we were at least clear about where the lines of fantasy departed from reality. “Captain America” is a fantastic riff on the nation’s idealism, filtered through the lens of the Second World War, a historic event whose particulars, however horrific and grandly inhumane, are not in dispute. “Black Panther,” however, exists in an invented nation in Africa, a continent that has been grappling with invented versions of itself ever since white men first declared it the “dark continent” and set about plundering its people and its resources. This fantasy of Africa as a place bereft of history was politically useful, justifying imperialism. It found expression in the highest echelons of Western thought, and took on the contours of truth. In 1753, the Scottish philosopher David Hume wrote, “I am apt to suspect the Negroes, and all other species of men . . . to be naturally inferior to the whites. There never was any civilized nation of any complexion other than white.” Two centuries later, the British historian Hugh Trevor-Roper wrote, “Perhaps, in the future, there will be some African history to teach. But at present there is none, or very little: there is only the history of the Europeans in Africa.

”Africa—or, rather, “Africa”—is a creation of a white world and the literary, academic, cinematic, and political mechanisms that it used to give mythology the credibility of truth. No such nation as Wakanda exists on the map of the continent, but that is entirely beside the point. Wakanda is no more or less imaginary than the Africa conjured by Hume or Trevor-Roper, or the one canonized in such Hollywood offerings as “Tarzan.” It is a redemptive counter-mythology. Most filmmakers start by asking their audiences to suspend their disbelief. But, with Africa, Coogler begins with a subject about which the world had suspended its disbelief four centuries before he was born. The film is a nearly seamless dramatic chronicle of the threat created when Killmonger travels to the African nation he descends from. Yet some of the most compelling points in the story are those where the stitching is most apparent. Killmonger is a native of Oakland, California, where the Black Panther Party was born. (In an early scene, a poster of Huey P. Newton, the co-founder of the Party, hangs on a wall, next to a Public Enemy poster.) In an impeccably choreographed fight sequence, T’Challa and General Okoye, the leader of Wakanda’s all-female militia (brilliantly played by Danai Gurira), alongside Nakia, a wily Wakandan spy (played by Lupita Nyong’o), confront a Boko Haram-like team of kidnappers. At the same time, it is all but impossible not to notice that Coogler has cast a black American, a Zimbabwean-American, and a Kenyan as a commando team in a film about African redemption. The cast also includes Winston Duke, who is West Indian; Daniel Kaluuya, a black Brit; and Florence Kasumba, a Ugandan-born German woman. The implicit statement in both the film’s themes and its casting is that there is a connection, however vexed, tenuous, and complicated, among the continent’s scattered descendants. Coogler said as much in Brooklyn, when he talked about a trip that he took to South Africa, as research for the film: after discovering cultural elements that reminded him of black communities in the United States, he concluded, “There’s no way they could wipe out what we were for thousands of years. We’re African.”

[DearEvette]

2 hours ago, anna0852 said:

This is a really relevant question for me. My 7 year old Caucasian niece thinks the Dora Milaje are the most amazing thing ever. She desperately wants to be one for Halloween. And I don't know if it's okay to let her dress up like she wants or if it will be seen as cultural appropriation and racial insensitivity. I absolutely don't want to teach her racist behaviour but at the same time her desire for this particular costume is because she thinks these characters are so amazing. She isn't seeing skin color, she just sees kick ass women that she wants to emulate.

I've seen white women cosplaying as Michonne and little black girls dressed up as Elsa (Frozen) so I don't think there's an issue.

If she wanted to wear African garb then yeah, appropriation.  But dressing up like a Dora, with the actual red armor and the spears is simply cosplaying a comic book character.  Obviously no blackface, though.

[truthaboutluv]

So I just saw this film. Full disclosure, I'm not a comic book fan and not a Marvel fan, so I knew nothing of this story. And I have to admit that all the hype and fanning did make me roll my eyes and almost not want to watch the film.  But I kept an open mind and went in as unbiased as possible and for me, it was just okay. The backstory and history of Wakanda and the world building was all interesting enough. But ultimately, I just found it an okay superhero film with some awesome action sequences. My biggest takeaway though and this surprised me, was how forgettable Chadwick Boseman was in the film. He never really sold me on the character and I just found him lacking. YMMV but I thought Michael B. Jordan outshone him completely. 

[Morrigan2575]

16 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Yes Yes YES! Loved all of the T'Challa/Nakia scenes. And I particularly loved them holding hands at the end when T'Challa was walking in to give his speech at the UN. Talk about a power couple!

And yet comic book sites are pushing for T'Challa/Ororo in the future now that X-Men might be coming home to the MCU. ?

[Raja]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

And yet comic book sites are pushing for T'Challa/Ororo in the future now that X-Men might be coming home to the MCU. ?

You gotta love the nerd. While many can't believe how close they got to the movies  being "right" since RDJ became Iron-Man for others nothing is good enough except a perfect recreation of a single comic book story line. But then after 50 years Marvel keeps recycling and tweaking those stories to sell to the next generation and force the collector into another purchase.

[Dandesun]

And, dude, T'Challa/Storm was a huge fucking retcon anyway. The MCU is not Marvel 616. MCU Peggy was not a fighter for the French Resistence. There weren't any other MCU Captain Americas (that we know of, admittedly. but there's no reason for them to tackle any of that in the MCU anyway.) MCU Iron Man hasn't slept his way through the female superhero population. MCU Cap didn't hang out with Wolverine and Black Widow. There are so many differences that there's no reason to go there. Not to mention, Storm needs to get her own attention on her own merits because Ororo is fucking awesome and deserves it. Plus, Nakia doesn't need to be usurped or replaced, she's fucking awesome on her own.

[benteen]

22 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

And, dude, T'Challa/Storm was a huge fucking retcon anyway. The MCU is not Marvel 616. MCU Peggy was not a fighter for the French Resistence. There weren't any other MCU Captain Americas (that we know of, admittedly. but there's no reason for them to tackle any of that in the MCU anyway.) MCU Iron Man hasn't slept his way through the female superhero population. MCU Cap didn't hang out with Wolverine and Black Widow. There are so many differences that there's no reason to go there. Not to mention, Storm needs to get her own attention on her own merits because Ororo is fucking awesome and deserves it. Plus, Nakia doesn't need to be usurped or replaced, she's fucking awesome on her own.

Agreed.  Storm is so awesome that she doesn't need a love interest. 

When you look at Storm during Chris Claremont's 16 year run (1975-1991), she easily stood on her own two feet and she rarely had a love interest.  CC would always plan on eventually giving her a love interest year after year but couldn't find someone to measure up to her.  He did consider T'Challa though as the Black Panther was someone who could definitely measure up to Storm.  I think he did write a Storm/Panther story for Marvel Comics Presents (I believe that was the name) and that story was retconned to set up a marriage between the two characters more than two decades later.  Outside of a few issues with Forge and the occasional tease of her with Wolverine or Cyclops, Storm didn't have a love interest and certainly didn't need one.

Once CC left, Forge proposed to Storm and then retracted it when he got pissy over something, saying he considered Storm to be like a child who hadn't grown up and it left Storm a blubbering mess.  Ugh...now that was insulting. 

Anyway, this was a dumb question by interviewer.

I did find it funny though to see Angela Basset in a superhero movie wearing a white wig.  Basset was someone who was always rumored to be cast as Storm before they did the first X-Men movie in 2000.  I think she would have been better in the role than Halle Berry.

Edited February 22, 2018 by benteen

[Lugal]

21 minutes ago, benteen said:

I did find it funny though to see Angela Basset in a superhero movie wearing a white wig.  Basset was someone who was always rumored to be cast as Storm before they did the first X-Men movie in 2000.  I think she would have been better in the role than Halle Berry.

I thought so too, but from what I understand (don't remember where I heard it) was they offered Storm to Angela Basset and she turned it down.  Considering how Storm was written in the movies, she was smart to do so.

[DearEvette]

On thing I forgot to mention that I also thought was pretty great casting and something I didn't catch until Zuri confronted Killmonger, was that the actor who played young Zuri had the same squint/lazy eye that Forest Whitaker has.  Not as pronounced,  but it was there and noticeable where he revealed who he was and we saw that last flashback.

[JessePinkman]

T'Challa and Storm was a big ol' flop to most comic book fans so I doubt they'll go there and if they ever do it won't be for like...a decade. At least. And I hate the whole idea of "Hey our two most popular black characters should get married! They're both African, that's enough right?". I'm sorry but that's some white nonsense.

Anyway. I've seen the movie twice now and I've been finding it incredibly hard to put into words how I feel about it. I just still can't believe it exists. It's real and a thing and tangible and beautiful and here and ours. There's a lot to unpack for me.

I'll get my major issue out of the way: some of that CGI was janky as hell, especially when the two panthers were fighting in the vibranium mines. It's too much when everything on screen is fake. I had the same issue with portions of Ragnarok. I don't play video games because of all the damn cut scenes. Don't insert them into my movies.

Everything else? Loved it.

"Bury me in the ocean with my ancestors that jumped from the ships. Because they knew death was better than bondage." This line destroyed me. I didn't expect it, certainly not in a broadly appealing Marvel property. I didn't expect to side with Killmonger. They did this interesting thing with him, he would make a good point and then push it just a little too far. Like when he said they'd also kill their oppressors children. Too far, Erik, too far.

What a fantastic multi-layered villain. I didn't want him to die, that to me is the sign of a fantastic villain. I never got the love for Loki, he's a whiny little bitch. Erik actually has legitimate reasons to be angry. Legitimate reasons to hate the good guys.

Speaking of good guys, Shuri is amazing. I need her to meet Peter and Tony and everyone and be in everything and around everyone. She's by far the best new character since...Black Panther (I'm not counting Spider-Man). Just the best. The best!

Gah, I don't know how to say over and over that I loved it. I just did. I want to see it at least 3 more times in theaters.

[Dee]

‘Black Panther’ To Pounce Past $500M WW Box Office Today

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This is a fast time to $500M global for BP. But some big Marvel titles begin offshore rollout a week ahead of domestic, meaning the half a billion mark doesn’t come into play until the sophomore session. The day-and-date here with domestic on a tear has played a role in getting to the milestone. For example, key major MCU movies that bowed overseas before North America include the first Avengers and Avengers: Age Of Ultron which were boosted by domestic in the 2nd frame.

Overseas, the Ryan Coogler-directed film is pacing on track, still running well ahead of Doctor Strange and slightly above 2017’s Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol 2 and Thor: Ragnarok. Wednesday’s haul was $14.5M in 48 markets, a whisker down on Tuesday but still 11% of an opening weekend that blasted past expectations.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Dee

[Jazzy24]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

On thing I forgot to mention that I also thought was pretty great casting and something I didn't catch until Zuri confronted Killmonger, was that the actor who played young Zuri had the same squint/lazy eye that Forest Whitaker has.  Not as pronounced,  but it was there and noticeable where he revealed who he was and we saw that last flashback.

I heard that the actor is Forrest Whitaker’s son. 

[funkopop]

10 minutes ago, Jazzy24 said:

I heard that the actor is Forrest Whitaker’s son. 

His name is Denzel Whitaker but no relation, funny enough he played Forrest Whitaker's son in the movie "The Great Debaters" which also starred Denzel Washington.

Edited February 22, 2018 by funkopop

[VCRTracking]

23 minutes ago, JessePinkman said:

T'Challa and Storm was a big ol' flop to most comic book fans so I doubt they'll go there and if they ever do it won't be for like...a decade. At least. And I hate the whole idea of "Hey our two most popular black characters should get married! They're both African, that's enough right?". I'm sorry but that's some white nonsense.

Chris Claremont, who wrote the story where T'Challa and Ororo meet when they were children in a backup story of a Marvel Team-Up 100 in 1980, but had nothing to do with them getting married years later agrees:

Chris Claremont Thinks Black Panther's Marriage to Storm Was a Bad Idea, and He's Right
 

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Well, the problem I have with it is, who gets top billing?

Because that’s the function of a king’s wife is to produce little princes and pricessees, right? The first thing that Charles and Diana did was have a child.

Their job was to have babies and be guarded and I think the challenge with any marriage relationship in comics—but especially a marriage of leading characters in comics—is answering the question: “What comes next?” Does Ororo become a supporting character in T’Challa’s book? Does T’Challa become a supporting character in Ororo’s book? How do you strike a balance between them? What do you do five years down the line? Because the practical reality is that the audience gets older, the creator gets older, but the characters can’t get older and the moment you bring a child into it, that automatically marks time.

 

In his original story Claremont left the two of them where they should have always gone:

[JessePinkman]

I meant to erase that "white nonsense" part of the post since I'm pretty sure their wedding was written by Reginald Hudlin. But yeah, Claremont makes a good point.

[Matt K]

Actually Christopher Priest set them up during his run basing it off their mutual history in the Claremont backup.  So, it's not like Hudlin came up with the idea on his own.  That said, I hated what Hudlin did on his run.  But, creating Shuri ended up working out pretty well, so silver lining and all that.

[JessePinkman]

12 minutes ago, Matt K said:

Actually Christopher Priest set them up during his run basing it off their mutual history in the Claremont backup.  So, it's not like Hudlin came up with the idea on his own.  That said, I hated what Hudlin did on his run.  But, creating Shuri ended up working out pretty well, so silver lining and all that.

Ah yes, Priest. I think I've said this before but I didn't like his run specifically because he introduced Everett K. Ross as the audience surrogate. I was 13 and wanted to read about the Black Panther, not this little mealy mouthed Michael J. Fox clone. Luckily the movie rectified that by making this not about him at all.

Edited February 22, 2018 by JessePinkman

[catrice2]

I can understand that people are fans of Lupita and that the movie was a success, however, I feel like they should follow the comics and have T'Challa become involved with Storm.  If you take on a character and research the character and say, "o.k." you should be willing to go wherever that arc leads.  I personally would love for her to become Malice and play that role. I am sure she would be fantastic.   I really care nothing for romance in my superhero movies and that has been my major complaint with most of them.....Batman (choose one) would have been better without a love interest. I don't think it added anything to Thor or Iron Man ...and far as I am concerned I hope Captain America doesn't get a girlfriend and can play the field. 

[Morrigan2575]

12 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

however, I feel like they should follow the comics and have T'Challa become involved with Storm.

So they should get married and divorced in the first 10 minutes of Black Panther 2?

I'm being a little facetious but, the T'Challa/Ororo relationship lasted 6 years that's nothing in comicbook life. 

[VCRTracking]

4 hours ago, JessePinkman said:

Ah yes, Priest. I think I've said this before but I didn't like his run specifically because he introduced Everett K. Ross as the audience surrogate. I was 13 and wanted to read about the Black Panther, not this little mealy mouthed Michael J. Fox clone. Luckily the movie rectified that by making this not about him at all.

I get Priest's reasoning especially in regards to white fanboys. Wikipedia:
 

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According to creator Christopher Priest, Ross's personality was based on that of Chandler Bing, a character from the television series Friends, while the name was inspired by the Family Ties character Alex P. Keaton.[1] After introducing Ross in Ka-Zar, Priest chose to bring the character back in Black Panther for use as an audience surrogate who "saw Panther the way Panther had ultimately come to be seen by Marvel: Just Some Guy who was routinely overshadowed by heroes in which they were more invested".[2]

Priest further elaborated, "Comics are traditionally created by white males for white males. I figured, and I believe rightly, that for Black Panther to succeed, it needed a white male at the center, and that white male had to give voice to the audience's misgivings or apprehensions or assumptions about this character and this book. Ross needed to be un-PC to the point of being borderline racist"; and clarified, "I don't think Ross was racist at all. I just think that his stream of conscious narrative is a window into things I imagine many whites say or at least think when no blacks are around; myths about black culture and behavior. I was also introducing a paradigm shift to the way Panther was to be portrayed; somebody had to give voice to the expectation of a dull and colorless character who always got his butt kicked or who was overshadowed by Thor and Iron Man suddenly knocking out Mephisto with one punch".[3]

 

When the character is done right, you do believe he is a total badass. The first Lee and Kirby Fantastic Four story I read was in the mid 90s and it was a reprint of Black Panther's first appearance and I loved it. Kirby's depiction of the technojungle of Wakanda and the Panther thoroughly kicking each member of the FF's ass one by one using smarts and physical skill to do so. That the FF ultimately beat him with the help of Wyatt Wingfoot, Johnny Storm's recently introduced Native American roommate was even better. It was really progressive of Lee and Kirby in 1966.

Edited February 23, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Wynterwolf]

Ryan Coogler explaining why they used Bucky the way they did.  

Quote

Bucky would have horrible PTSD, he would need spiritual guidance. The last thing he would need to do is jump into that Civil War...

Especially after McFeely and Markus' comments, I love that Coogler approached his interpretation of the character this way.  And Shuri teaching him non-lethal fighting techniques could at least be partly what she meant by 'more to learn' (which has been driving me a little crazy).  

[Morrigan2575]

15 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

Ryan Coogler explaining why they used Bucky the way they did.  

Especially after McFeely and Markus' comments, I love that Coogler approached his interpretation of the character this way.  And Shuri teaching him non-lethal fighting techniques could at least be partly what she meant by 'more to learn' (which has been driving me a little crazy).  

You know I never even thought about Bucky. I just assumed he was still in cryo-freeze during the events of the movie. I kind of figured the post credit scene was an in-between, post Panther but pre-Infinity War

[Lantern7]

10 hours ago, Matt K said:

Actually Christopher Priest set them up during his run basing it off their mutual history in the Claremont backup.  So, it's not like Hudlin came up with the idea on his own.  That said, I hated what Hudlin did on his run.  But, creating Shuri ended up working out pretty well, so silver lining and all that.

That arc was fun. Storm, Klaw, a body swap, T'Challa dealing with the likes of Dr. Doom, Namor and Magneto, and Storm flying naked with Queen Divine Justice. It wasn't gratuitous. Oh, and Ross gets stuck dealing with the Deviants, whom he compares to Groovy Ghoulies. I think that arc is in Priest's second volume.

ETA: Found something on Priest's site: A collection of quotes from Everett K. Ross. Yeah, I know, I can work with the MCU version, but the canon guy made me laugh. A lot. It goes 29 issues deep, and then there's blank space all the way down. Just a heads-up.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Lantern7

[Morrigan2575]

6 hours ago, doram said:

Wait a minute... Wasn't he?

Reading that interview they talked about how to plan around Bucky. They didn't want the white guy showing up and fighting/killing in the big end sequence (totally agree). They also talked about how Shuri is teaching Bucky non lethal fighting techniques.

It made it sound like Bucky was awake and iut on the plains meditating somewhere. Maybe I just misunderstood the interview.

[Wynterwolf]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

It made it sound like Bucky was awake and iut on the plains meditating somewhere. Maybe I just misunderstood the interview.

I think either might be possible given what they showed, but I like the idea that he wasn't still in cryo when Erik took over as king better, but depending whether Shuri's comment about 'another white boy to fix' was about a pending project, or a completed one... it could go either way.  His hair is also a lot longer in the BP credit scene than it was in the CW credit scene, so when we saw him, he had been out of cryo for quite awhile (but the time passage could have been after things were settled down).  According to the comic they released, it only took a few months for Shuri to neutralize the trigger words, so it could have also taken months to set up for the ceremonial aspects of T'Challa officially becoming king, possibly because T'Challa had official and non-official things to take care of surrounding Zemo, and that seems reasonable to me.  It also might have taken some time to find Nakia, since she was embedded in an op (and particularly to get her out at a place that would allow them to at least partially complete her op), and he wanted to make sure she was there.    

[Empress1]

19 hours ago, DearEvette said:

On thing I forgot to mention that I also thought was pretty great casting and something I didn't catch until Zuri confronted Killmonger, was that the actor who played young Zuri had the same squint/lazy eye that Forest Whitaker has.  Not as pronounced,  but it was there and noticeable where he revealed who he was and we saw that last flashback.

He's played Forest Whitaker's son before in The Great Debaters. His name is Denzel Whitaker (no relation to Forest).

[JessePinkman]

12 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I get Priest's reasoning especially in regards to white fanboys.

Oh I get it too but as a young black boy I really needed to see Black Panther be the lead in his own book. I was super disappointed.

This movie had embedded itself into my subconscious, I can't stop thinking about it. 

Whose World Is This? Black Panther Production Designer Hannah Beachler Walks Us Through Wakanda

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You know, we had to create all of this history—just like you’d know about any city, or your own hometown. That’s how much we had to go in on Wakanda, because Ryan said to me one day: “What are the names of the streets? What do they do in that building? What is it about this park that makes it unique? What’s the history of that area? What different parts of town are there? Who lives there?” ... So we just started from the beginning. We started with a timeline and made a timeline of, like, 10,000 years ago. We started 10,000 years ago, and we worked our way up to 2018. ...

I always say the production designer is the believer. I have to believe in this world; I had to believe that I was a Wakandan architect to create Wakanda, and I had to be there 24-7 for a year. That was my mindset. So it was all about that, always. And for each film, you do that in the different world you’re telling the story of.

 

I felt that. I hope the sequel has more Wakanda, I want to see the streets, the parks, the universities. I want it all.

[Dee]

Playback: Ryan Coogler on ‘Black Panther’ and What It Means to Be African

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Ryan Coogler is the center of the universe this week. The sky is apparently the limit for his bold, block-busting, record-smashing Marvel Studios tentpole “Black Panther,” which sits at $270 million domestic just six days into release. Before the whirlwind reception, which drew an emotional open letter from the writer-director to the masses who made history with him, Coogler sat down for a conversation covering the personal passions that drove him in making one of Marvel’s most successful launches to date, just shy of the company’s 10-year anniversary.

“For me this opportunity was unique because I could make something I truly hadn’t seen before,” Coogler says. “As an African American, our history with the continent is very fraught. We’re not generally able to tie our lineage back as a result of a very specific traumatic experience that happened to us. So how we learn about the continent is skewed through that lens, through that relationship, and how we learn about ourselves is skewed. There was a gap in my own identity. So in many ways this is my most personal film.”

Edited February 23, 2018 by Dee

[dusang]

4 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

I think either might be possible given what they showed, but I like the idea that he wasn't still in cryo when Erik took over as king better, but depending whether Shuri's comment about 'another white boy to fix' was about a pending project, or a completed one... it could go either way.  His hair is also a lot longer in the BP credit scene than it was in the CW credit scene, so when we saw him, he had been out of cryo for quite awhile (but the time passage could have been after things were settled down).  According to the comic they released, it only took a few months for Shuri to neutralize the trigger words, so it could have also taken months to set up for the ceremonial aspects of T'Challa officially becoming king, possibly because T'Challa had official and non-official things to take care of surrounding Zemo, and that seems reasonable to me.  It also might have taken some time to find Nakia, since she was embedded in an op (and particularly to get her out at a place that would allow them to at least partially complete her op), and he wanted to make sure she was there.    

I just wrote a long post detailing the overall insanity of the MCU timelines -- they can travel halfway around the world in like two hours it seems -- but my main point is that I'm pretty sure the newsclip T'Challa is watching at the beginning of the film, as they go to pick-up Nakia, says the UN bombing was a week ago.  So the post-credits sequence must be significantly after the main events of this film.  (I actually wondered where Bucky was and what would happen to him when Shuri fled and again when her lab was under attack in the final battle.  Maybe she always had him stashed further away but I assume he was in cryo during this film.)

[Morrigan2575]

18 minutes ago, dusang said:

but my main point is that I'm pretty sure the newsclip T'Challa is watching at the beginning of the film, as they go to pick-up Nakia

I only watched the movie once but, that is what I recall as well. The entirety of Civil War apparently took place within a week and, Black Panther picks up right after it. 

So I guess it goes: Civil War happens, Bucky/Steve go to Wakanda with T'Challa after Siberia, dropping Zemo off with Ross along the way. They freeze Bucky, Steve goes to help his team escape. T'Challa and Okoye go to rescue Nakia because he's going to be crowded King the following day.

Man a lot of stuff happened in a week. 

You know that is one of my very minor issues with this movie. We got to see T'Challa grieve for his father, we briefly got a scene with Ramonda having and T'Challa dealing with mutual sorrow over T'Chaka's death.

Sadly, we never got a Shuri/T'Challa scene and, barely a mention from Shuri herself. The only time it was brought up was after T'Challa is killed and, they are going to see M'Baku. 

I would have liked a T'Challa/Shuri scene about losing a parent. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[Wynterwolf]

49 minutes ago, dusang said:

but my main point is that I'm pretty sure the newsclip T'Challa is watching at the beginning of the film, as they go to pick-up Nakia, says the UN bombing was a week ago.

Dang, seriously! 

According to the tie in comic, T'Challa offers his help to Steve and Bucky as they're climbing out of the facility in Siberia and he tells Bucky he "may know someone in Wakanda" (heh) that can help free him of the Hydra programming.  Steve's say thanks and Bucky say's they'll be in touch.  Then Steve and Bucky go to The Raft to spring everybody.  So it seems like the events in Black Panther would fit here, before the CW end credit scene, then it would go back to the comic where it says "weeks later", and has Steve & Bucky meeting with T'Challa and Shuri in Wakanda, then you'd get the end credit scene from CA:CW where Bucky is going into cryo in Wakanda, while Steve goes off (and shows up later with Sam & Nat taking out terrorists with Chitauri parts).  Then "months later", Shuri figures out how to clear out the trigger words, but still leaving Bucky's memories and then after a lot of time (given how long Buck's hair is)... we'd get the end credit scene in BP.  

Edited February 23, 2018 by Wynterwolf

[Wynterwolf]

46 minutes ago, dusang said:

(I actually wondered where Bucky was and what would happen to him when Shuri fled and again when her lab was under attack in the final battle.  Maybe she always had him stashed further away but I assume he was in cryo during this film.)

Yeah, basically he wasn't there yet.

[dusang]

10 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

Yeah, basically he wasn't there yet.

Then who is the "other white boy" Shuri was given to fix?

[Wynterwolf]

24 minutes ago, dusang said:

Then who is the "other white boy" Shuri was given to fix?

I'm sure T'Challa would have discussed it with her as soon as he got back, but before they got there, to make sure she could deliver what he had offered.

(and now I need fic for the "weeks" between Steve & Bucky springing everyone on The Raft and them showing up in Wakanda)

Edited February 23, 2018 by Wynterwolf

[caracas1914]

One of the best things about the film is that it was so self contained in it’s own universe, no need for any outside MCU backup character, aka what happened in Thor: Ragnarok and the latest Spiderman.    It was arguably needed in those films but Wakanda and its characters seem so developed on their own that I’m almost dreading it becoming a supporting pawn in the MCU Thanos/Infinity saga.

 

I guess it’s my longwinded way of saying I hope Bucky doesn’t loom as a major component of any upcoming Black Panther movies...

[Wynterwolf]

2 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

I guess it’s my longwinded way of saying I hope Bucky doesn’t loom as a major component of any upcoming Black Panther movies...

I can definitely understand that, but especially once Wakanda becomes more known in the world, I could see Bucky maybe having a similar kind of relationship with Shuri and/or Nakia that Steve does with Natasha.  And I think Coogler could handle it well, given how he handled Ross in this movie.  I don't think he'd let it overshadowing any of the Wakandans.  

[Dee]

Bucky is becoming the Wolverine of the MCU

[Bruinsfan]

On 2/22/2018 at 2:10 PM, JessePinkman said:

T'Challa and Storm was a big ol' flop to most comic book fans so I doubt they'll go there and if they ever do it won't be for like...a decade. At least. And I hate the whole idea of "Hey our two most popular black characters should get married! They're both African, that's enough right?". I'm sorry but that's some white nonsense.

Yeah, it tweaks my annoyance in almost exactly the same way as "I know one other gay person—you'd be perfect for each other!" does. I mean, Claremont established that past history, but they'd both seen and done so much since, and fast-tracking them to marriage when that's usually something that takes years of romantic buildup in comics really rankled. I'm more than happy to have Nyong'o's Nakia as T'challa's potential significant other, and I'd hate to see her role in future movies diminished so he could be paired up with someone who has powers or wears spandex.

[Morrigan2575]

5 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I'm more than happy to have Nyong'o's Nakia as T'challa's potential significant other, and I'd hate to see her role in future movies diminished so he could be paired up with someone who has powers or wears spandex.

Or worse, turn Nakia into a spurned lover/jealous woman and make her a villain ala her comics counterpart Malice

[Wynterwolf]

The vibe I got from T'Challa and Nakia was very Tony & Pepper.  And I think T'Challa and Nakia have some very interesting dynamics (both subtle and not so subtle) related to each of their individual perspectives that is going to be very fun watching play out on screen over the next (several!) movies.  And with so much in-story potential for drama already existing, hopefully they will avoid all the tired 'romance' tropes (triangles, jealousy, ridiculous lack of communication, idiotic miscommunication/misunderstandings, etc).  Especially since the movies are so much more contained than a comic run would be,  there's not as much time to set up 'romance' plus I tend to enjoy that part of the story being more ambiance and flavor rather than the main plot anyway,  But I loved the way Coogler handled them here so, I'm hopeful he'll make that ride fun going forward.  They have the potential to be a great Power Couple/Battle Couple.  

[Dee]

Black Panther’s Costume Designer on 8 of the Film’s Iconic Looks

Quote

When you think of Wakanda, the futuristic African country that is the setting of Ryan Coogler’s smash-hit superhero movie Black Panther, you can’t help but picture its fabulously dressed citizens. Two-time Oscar nominee Ruth E. Carter is the costume designer responsible for Wakanda’s sartorial splendor, and she’s loving the audience response to her work: Whether it’s at Comic-Con or at the movie theater, people are dressing up as young king T’Challa (Chadwick Boseman), as well as his friends and foes.

“I think in part due to Ryan Coogler’s direction of this piece, and Marvel’s ability to support it in the way that only they could support a piece like this, I was able to touch people with the artistry of Africa,” said Carter. “I’ve been doing this for 30 years, and they’re honoring me back by being in costume, by dressing the part, and by showing me their versions of what I have presented.”

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dee