S03.E21: Forgiven / S03.E22: Ascension

[Gudzilla]

I'm going to miss Ronald Two the most. :(

[Traveller519]

This show has steadily improved for me since The Winter Soldier. Obviously with a procedural-length season to fill, there is filler and not everything totally hits, but I felt this Season Finale was very strong. Definitely more memorable than last year's. It had a lot of the same beats as Age of Ultron, but I felt much more invested in these two hours, than I did in that movie (though I've come around on it after a few more viewings).

Lincoln was the right one to be killed (If they hadn't promoted it to the end and back) he has more backstory built up than Elena or Joey, but wouldn't have shattered the show like May, Coulson, Daisy, Fitz, or Simmons, and Mack can't go. I'd been down on the character for a long time, but the past 4-5 episodes have endeared him more to me through his actions (Luke Mitchell's SnapChats of the rest of the cast doing DubSmash things helped too). He was as bland as can be, and I never got a big sense of chemistry between Daisy and Skye, but they played off each other well from afar in the past couple of episodes. Coulson was right, he earned his way in, and I felt Daisy's loss. 

My guess is the weight of that loss on top of her withdrawal is what pushes her over the edge. There's been talk of her exhibiting Magneto like behaviour, and I'd say it's a lot like Mystique from Days of Future Past. She knows she was trained and brought up by SHIELD, and certainly doesn't see them as the enemy, but she has a greater vision for Inhumans. Something she toyed with last season, and her Hive dopamine kick could have permanently woken up.

I hope Fitz and Simmons got lots of "snorkelling" in during those 6 months.

[redfish]

Skye/Daisy began the show as a fugitive hacker and now the season ends with her being a fugitive Inhuman. I guess it's the circle of life...

I get the sense that the Inhumans are "required" to be on the list and Daisy is rebelling against it.

The new LMD seems female is this a female version  of Ultron? Or Jocasta?

Edited May 18, 2016 by redfish

[AimingforYoko]

2 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

I hope Fitz and Simmons got lots of "snorkelling" in during those 6 months.

You know, a lot of guys aren't into snorkeling, but I think Fitz might be a newfound enthusiast.

[MisterGlass]

I would be good with May or Hill as director.  I agree with others who have said Coulson should go back to being an agent.  He's a good agent and a good right hand man (I can say that - he lost his left hand).  He did manage to keep things mostly together, but he lacks the objectivity and focus required for the director's desk.

A break from the inhuman focus for a little while appeals to me.  Keep Elena around by all means, and pursue Daisy, but I like the idea that the focus will be elsewhere for part of the time.  I wonder if that's deliberate now that the inhuman movie is postponed.

I would also like to request the speedy return of Bobbie and Hunter.  The show lost some of its levity and flair when they disappeared.  They can double date with FitzSimmons between catastrophes.

I wouldn't mind if Brett Dalton showed up as an LMD.  Once they finally committed to Unredeemable Ward he grew on me, and I was okay with Hive.  He could be a training combat bot with a completely different personality.

I also thought for a second Lincoln and Hive were going to hold hands.  I was thinking of Battlestar Galactica

Spoiler

when the two Cavils held hand before their execution by airlock.

I would love to see John Hannah and Patton Oswalt share a scene.

[xqueenfrostine]

I'm not completely opposed to May being a director, but I think I'd prefer Hill or some unknown in that role.  I think May has what it takes to be a good director (she definitely has better judgment than Coulson and has proven that she's capable of making the really tough calls), but I'd really miss her going out on field missions.  Melinda's too much of a badass to waste away at a desk job.

[TVSpectator]

9 hours ago, vibeology said:

SHIELD needs to figure out what lock down means because it certainly doesn't mean people can punch a code into a door and go from place to place, nor does it mean everything is secure except for the giant open ceiling in the Cargo Bay. Plus, nothing should be shipped directly to the super secret base and all cargo should be inspected off-site before it's brought in by agents. The idea that the base was locked down was hilarious once all the weak points were highlighted by the show itself.

Ithis time jump and shakeup is a chance to try new character pairings and do something exciting and less predictable.

 

3

Yes, bring back Hive to the main base was a mistake that anyone could've seen but choose not to see (in other word everyone was stupid for the plot). I mean don't these people have an off-base location, where they could, I don't know, store Hive for the time being? They can give the place a cool name, like the Alpha Site... or you  know, The Fridge or The Mini-Fridge or maybe a warehouse littered with boxes, that's filled with really cool/magical artifacts/0-8-4s?

Also, how would Hive know that when his shipment arrived (from Montana) that he will need his Inhuman Alpha Primitives to break him out of that gel (and where in hell did SHIELD get that gel? Was it ever introduced before, on an earlier episode? Or is this one of Fitz's magical inventions and he cooks up from thin air?), just in time to cause havoc?

As with the time jump, I really wish they didn't do that. I wish that they didn't do a time jump for the back half of this season, either. I have heard that the writers have admitted that they would throw in a time jump because they get stuck, creatively, when writing the script/plot. But if they have to have a time jump why is it always so long (like this 6 months time jump. If we are to assume that this finale took place this month, May 2016, then that would place the final scene at November/December 2016) or the recent 3 months time jump? Personally, I would like a smaller time jump, like a month or 6 weeks. Then this way the finale would have more impact on the story but everything is so far stretched out and that, IMO, everything that happened before feels that it has less an impact. That was one of the reasons why I was so annoyed at May being angry at Hunter, for not killing Ward and Fitz angsting about killing Will (well, there were other things I hated about that as well). These characters literally had to do a full 3  months work of that shit, just for us to see it. 

6 hours ago, SocaShoe said:

Maybe that lack of concern for the bigger SHIELD, its people and its mission is  what leads to him not being the director anymore or seemingly having any choice over the mission he takes. His actions get reported by someone (likely Talbot, who's probably a terrific snitch when it serves his needs.) and the director position is taken from him. The thing I'm curious about is if he willingly surrenders Fury's toolbox to someone new. Or does he hide it and keep those resources for himself. Or do the writers forget that the toolbox existed? 

 

 

In my mind the new director is May and I can literally see Coulson trusting her with Fury's Toolbox. 

6 hours ago, SocaShoe said:

Booking Samuel L. Jackson (who stays very busy) and the Marvel tv division paying him the salary he deserved would be a miracle - a very welcome miracle but still it would take something akin to divine intervention to make that happen. 

 

 

Samuel L. Jackson literally did a guest spot for this show, way back in the later half of Season 1 (during the post-Hydra reveal). So, I can see him willingly doing another guest spot, but with him being one of Hollywoods hottest stars, IMO, I would imagine that his filming schedule would be really tight to work around- so, I can see him doing maybe one or two episode for next season. Plus, I remember hearing Coulson saying, "she won't be happy" so it's either Maria Hill, Weaver, or May. And if it's not Hill or May then anyone who is in that position will probably end up dead by the end of the first half; which is my prediction, btw. 

7 hours ago, benteen said:

So Daisy was sending that kid to Cal at the end, right?

Yes, I was expecting to see Cal standing right next to Daisy, but we didn't see him. Although, I won't be surprised if she did get Cal out of his, mind wiped life (hey, does SHIELD have a form of mind control of their own- with that memory machine?) and is forming another pack of Ihumand/0-8-4s. 

6 hours ago, Snorfbat said:

I'm assuming the AI was named ADA after Ada Lovelace. She was the first computer programmer.

The screenshots that I have seen clearly states it's AIDA (btw, you probably would need to zoom in on that picture. It's one of the first that I found, using Google, but it is small). Which is actually something from the comics, so I am expecting an LMD run-a-muck type of story. So, I do wonder what the robot will look like but I am just going to keep my expectations small (or brace myself for a robo-Daisy), because of the current state of the writing. 

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I was worried for several scenes about various characters. Fitz was definitely up at the top. I forgot the significance of the cross, even with the preview, until later on in the second episode. I'm glad Fitzsimmons finally get a happy ending at the end of a season. I still don't ship them though. They still feel like they have a brother/sister relationship....honestly, furthered by Fitz being the only one to read the subtext of Simmons' 'show you something new in the Seychelles...Snorkeling' comment. Also, gotta be totally honest, at the beginning of that scene, I totally thought Simmons was going to reveal a pregnancy and I was not going to be happy.

I wasn't sure about Elena, but I don't mind if she pops in once in a while as Mack's girlfriend. The two are cute together, and she took a bullet for him! Also, that new doctor? I loved his presence. The moment I knew I wanted more of him next season was after they captured Hive, and the team is all silently standing and staring...and then he gives a little whoop of excitement. I worry about what he's building, but he's a lot of fun and I think I'll enjoy his interactions with the team, but mostly Fitz. 

As for the time jump, it seems like Daisy turned Goth or is wearing a disguise. I wonder what she's been up to, besides destroying buildings. Coulson's not the director anymore, which I'm happy about. I'm seriously going to laugh hard if the new director is Talbot. Part of me is hoping it's May, though. She needs something new for season 4, and she'd be good at it. Fitzsimmons are still together, which is surprising, but oh well. I imagine the show will bring them further drama for next season with whatever new doc and Fitz are working on. 

 

1

Oh, they were so using every trope for foreshadowing a character's death with everyone. The whole, "hey when this is done I am planning a trip, for us...", to Lincoln's "after this mission I am done with SHILED..." which just had my eyes rolling. I know that they were trying to be coy with us but really I wish that they would just stop with it and give us something awesome and rewarding, as a Marvel fan.

I really watch this show because of the ties to Joss Whedon (which by far is my favorite Whedon), I read some of the comics when I was a kid, I watched some of the Marvel cartoons when I was a kid, I am a fan of the movies (most of them; not all of them), I would love to see more movie tie-ins, and I just want to see what they would do with the larger comic book source material that didn't make it to the screen yet. I really don't care about the ships or about pleasing the shippers. I just want something good to watch (and I have been watching Flash Season 1, and damn, it actually pretty good and the writers are so in love with their comic book source material).

That being said, I am not really a shipper but IMO, I am a bit weirded out that Whedons (out of all the writers in the world) would just up and give us happy a Fitz and Simmons couple. It's just too obvious (and, IMO, way too soon for this to happen in any will they/won't-they trope) and I was wanting to see if one of them got Inhuman Hive, died and became Hive, was a shapeshifting Skrull, or was a robot. Damn, I would've been just  fine with a little nod to towards something weird like that. 

7 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Peggy Carter thought she lost Steve and didn't go on a damn rampage!

 

You know I now truly believe that Peggy Carter can handle any death of a close loved one better than this whole SHIELD team. Minus, of course, May and Mack. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by TVSpectator

[tankgirl73]

Quote

Fitz being the only one to read the subtext of Simmons' 'show you something new in the Seychelles...Snorkeling' comment

Oh yeah, I was going to mention about this... Wasn't Simmons being kind of, oh, insensitive to Fitz with her comment? "I'm going to take your breath away... with snorkelling." Putting him underwater. Talking about no breath. Underwater. To Fitz.

Especially after we've just been reminded of what Ward did to them in the flashbacks.

[TVSpectator]

1 minute ago, tankgirl73 said:

Oh yeah, I was going to mention about this... Wasn't Simmons being kind of, oh, insensitive to Fitz with her comment? "I'm going to take your breath away... with snorkelling." Putting him underwater. Talking about no breath. Underwater. To Fitz.

Especially after we've just been reminded of what Ward did to them in the flashbacks.

 

I hope that was a subtle hint that one of them isn't who they say they are. Or maybe they didn't go on that trip and instead had a major fight?

[catrice2]

So sorry Daisy is still with us...the show would be better without her.  Didn't like the character of Lincoln but would love for Luke Mitchell to find a show that works for him. 

I think John Hannah's character will be the next big bad, and it appeared to me that Coulson and Mack were not acting normal. 

Love that May is still with us...hate that they killed Andrew and Blair Underwood! 

Please let Ward go.....

[Senna]

2 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

Also, how would Hive know that when his shipment arrived (from Montana) that he will need his Inhuman Alpha Primitives to break him out of that gel (and where in hell did SHIELD get that gel? Was it ever introduced before, on an earlier episode? Or is this one of Fitz's magical inventions and he cooks up from thin air?), just in time to cause havoc?

I believe this was the same orange goo the ATCU was suspending inhumans in back in the first part of this season.

[TVSpectator]

Just now, Senna said:

I believe this was the same orange goo the ATCU was suspending inhumans in back in the first part of this season.

Okay, thanks. You are probably right; it's just I didn't put two-to-two together. For some reason I couldn't believe that they (yet again) had another gadgets made on the fly, but that does make a lot of sense. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

So let me get this straight -- Daisy's vision of the Quinjet in orbit with the blood drops and floating cross was from the perspective of Hive/Ward ?  But didn't the other folks that were shown glimpses of their future a few episodes back see the future from their perspective (i.e. they were in the scene that they saw), so how come Daisy was no where near the place of her vision ?

And while they did mention that the Zephyr had been outfitted for high altitude missions, there was no mention that any of the Quinjets had been similarly outfitted for flights in space.

Daisy is so special she got not one but two super slo-mo scenes.  FFS !!! We get it already, she's super special.

How did Yo-Yo get shot multiple times without Mac seeing her standing in front of him taking each bullet ?  Unless she made multiple trips, but wouldn't any trip after that first bullet have kind of screwed with her capabilities ?

Seriously, if you are going to make fake newspaper articles could you at least put a little effort in to spell the name of the city correct ?  Not sure where San Fransisco is located in California, but it is spelled wrong in the first line of the paper with that collapsed bridge.  Or interesting fact that the bridge collapsed and slightly injured 3 people accused of murder. Is Daisy going all Robin Hood with her powers ?

[Chris24601]

Prediction for next season based off the final two scenes. That wasn't Mac and Coulson after Daisy... they were Life Model Duplicates. Something will go wrong with the LMD project and they'll start body-snatching people in SHIELD. Daisy will be forced out into the cold and end up hunted because the LMD's can't actually duplicate Inhuman powers.

Thus, its NOT Rogue Daisy, its Last Hope Daisy... because, well, its THIS SHOW.

[ottoDbusdriver]

21 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

Prediction for next season based off the final two scenes. That wasn't Mac and Coulson after Daisy... they were Life Model Duplicates. Something will go wrong with the LMD project and they'll start body-snatching people in SHIELD. Daisy will be forced out into the cold and end up hunted because the LMD's can't actually duplicate Inhuman powers.

Thus, its NOT Rogue Daisy, its Last Hope Daisy... because, well, its THIS SHOW.

But what if GothDaisy is also a LMD with powers ?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Aida is pronounced with just 2 syllables even with the extra vowel.  Think Aidan (which is also an irish name) without the N.

Aida is not an Irish name (unlike Aidan, which is Irish). It's derived from Arabic and was made famous by the Verdi opera of the same name (about an Ethiopian princess) which was made into a Broadway musical back in 2000. In most languages, Aida is pronounced with three syllables which is why it's often written as Aïda (the two dots over the I indicate that the A and the I are pronounced separately) or Aída (in Spanish, they use an acute accent over the I). Many people drop the diaeresis/tréma (as is common with names like Zoë, Chloë, Anaïs, Noël, and words like naïve) but the pronunciation stays the same. Heh, although I saw a British show a few weeks ago where someone pronounced Anaïs without the A and the I separately and it sounded a little too close to "anus."

Edited May 19, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[RachelKM]

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So let me get this straight -- Daisy's vision of the Quinjet in orbit with the blood drops and floating cross was from the perspective of Hive/Ward ?  But didn't the other folks that were shown glimpses of their future a few episodes back see the future from their perspective (i.e. they were in the scene that they saw), so how come Daisy was no where near the place of her vision ?

I could be misremembering, but didn't we later learn that Daisy was infected by Hive just before she had the vision? If that's true, she had parasite Hive in her.  I guess it's possible that Hive, by virtue of being part of Daisy, was the one experiencing the contact vision and Daisy, but Hive being a part of her, saw it.  Or, I'm misremembering and/or giving the writing way too much credit. 

I enjoyed this episode well enough.  This show has long benefited from diminished expectations for me.  Can't say I'm super invested, but I enjoyed it.  That said, I care about exactly one thing, SHOTGUN AXE. See y'all in the fall.

[Tim Thomason]

I really hope they re-legitimize SHIELD next year (or have, already, within the 6 months timeframe). I doubt they plan on mentioning it in any future movies.

I don't think that's supposed to be Daisy's new look. I think she was only dressed all gothy so she can remain under the radar, and stand in line within Coulson's view for a few minutes unnoticed.

Here's the first scene of Season 4:

RADCLIFFE: "Happy Birthday, Aida! Come on out and give me a big smile!"

*A shirtless Brett Dalton walks out of the casing*

RADCLIFFE: "Damn it. I used the wrong genetic template. Oh well, when in Rome..."

[Tim Thomason]

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

I could be misremembering, but didn't we later learn that Daisy was infected by Hive just before she had the vision? If that's true, she had parasite Hive in her.  I guess it's possible that Hive, by virtue of being part of Daisy, was the one experiencing the contact vision and Daisy, but Hive being a part of her, saw it.  Or, I'm misremembering and/or giving the writing way too much credit. 

I enjoyed this episode well enough.  This show has long benefited from diminished expectations for me.  Can't say I'm super invested, but I enjoyed it.  That said, I care about exactly one thing, SHOTGUN AXE. See y'all in the fall.

No, she was shown to be infected at a later point (during the Secret Warriors attack on Hive's base, as we saw in flashback). That was around the point that they incorrectly suspected Hive had infected Lincoln.

It might be connected with her love for Lincoln or some such nonsense.

[RachelKM]

19 minutes ago, Tim Thomason said:

No, she was shown to be infected at a later point (during the Secret Warriors attack on Hive's base, as we saw in flashback). That was around the point that they incorrectly suspected Hive had infected Lincoln.

It might be connected with her love for Lincoln or some such nonsense.

Ugh... that actually seems likely...blech.  

So I was wrong. I'm not overly surprised, I don't pay that close attention anymore.  

[Cranberry]

Did they ever confirm that the person saw their own death, or was that just fan assumption? Didn't his wife say that the first time Charles touched her after going through Terrigenesis, they both saw a vision of her mother lying dead in a hospital bed?

Edit: Yes: "I took his hand, and we saw flashes... random events, ending with a horrific car crash...  he just sat there shocked. But then, leading him inside, it happened again. We saw... we saw my mother in a hospital bed, code blue."

"We thought we were going crazy. But it would happen any time Charles touched anyone. He and that person would both see someone's death." 

[mac123x]

8 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

 Not sure where San Fransisco is located in California, but it is spelled wrong in the first line of the paper with that collapsed bridge.

Oooh, maybe we're in an alternate universe, like on Fringe when they intentionally misspelled "Manhatan".  Which, now that I think about it, I hope not.  Shows rarely if ever deal with the alternate reality / Earth 2 / mirror universe well.

[Llywela]

On 18/05/2016 at 2:37 PM, Raja said:

 the Serkovia Accords

A minor point, but I keep seeing this, so can I just point out that it's Sokovia, not Serkovia :)

11 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

That being said, I am not really a shipper but IMO, I am a bit weirded out that Whedons (out of all the writers in the world) would just up and give us happy a Fitz and Simmons couple...

Eh, but Joss Whedon isn't really involved with the show at all, despite having his name associated with it. Maybe his brother is less inclined to always destroy happy relationships! Or maybe the angst is still to come...

[tankgirl73]

I'm pretty sure there's nothing canonical about people seeing their own deaths, or even that the death scene is seen from their point of view. I'd have to review the other episode, but even if most of the time that's what happens, that doesn't necessarily extrapolate to an all the time thing. It could very well be "the next time that you or someone very close to you dies" and therefore that will often be in your presence but not always, and so far we'd only seen the "often" cases...

[blackwing]

On 5/18/2016 at 10:09 PM, maraleia said:

I'm just glad that no POC characters died because the backlash would've been epic.

I saw a similar comment on another show's forum, and I'm afraid I don't understand.  Shows aren't allowed to kill minority characters because then people will get offended?  Why?  There doesn't seem to be outrage when white characters die.  Lincoln died, but it's OK, because he's white?  But if Mack died, then start the protests?

The way I see it, on a show like this... people die.  Lucy Lawless died, and she was white.  Saffron Burrows died, and she was white.  Tripp died, and he was black.  Jiaying died, and she was Asian.  Raina died, and she was... not sure, but not white.  Will the Astronaut "died", and he was white.  Gordon died, and he was white.  Redheaded Multiple Girl died, and she was white.  Giyera died, and he was Asian.  Characters of all races die on this show.

[kitlee625]

39 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I saw a similar comment on another show's forum, and I'm afraid I don't understand.  Shows aren't allowed to kill minority characters because then people will get offended?  Why?  There doesn't seem to be outrage when white characters die.  Lincoln died, but it's OK, because he's white?  But if Mack died, then start the protests?

The way I see it, on a show like this... people die.  Lucy Lawless died, and she was white.  Saffron Burrows died, and she was white.  Tripp died, and he was black.  Jiaying died, and she was Asian.  Raina died, and she was... not sure, but not white.  Will the Astronaut "died", and he was white.  Gordon died, and he was white.  Redheaded Multiple Girl died, and she was white.  Giyera died, and he was Asian.  Characters of all races die on this show.

So I've actually done some analysis of this (although I haven't finished incorporating season 3's data yet). IMHO, I care less about each individual death than I do the overall pattern. Certainly the show has a lot of violence and death across the board, but IMHO the concern is that this disproportionately affects white women and POC. There is still a lot of death among white men as well, but they are more likely to go through the show unscathed. For example, if you look at recurring characters with multiple appearances, ~55% of white men have died on the show, compared to 100% of white women, 65% of black men, and 88% of women of color. (Another thing to note with these numbers is that there aren't as many recurring women and people of color as there are white men.)

 

However, I think that death is actually less different between groups than the incidence of torture, which disproportionately affects women of color. Despite making up only 11% of characters, women of color are 40% of the characters tortured. (Torture is much less common than death.)

Edited May 19, 2016 by kitlee625

[Chris24601]

10 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

But what if GothDaisy is also a LMD with powers ?

Then I would applaud them for not making Daisy the absolute center of every story for once.

Far more likely though is that Daisy is still some sort of hero and is either being deliberately framed or her targets are actually front organizations for the real villains that she's hitting under the cover of being a villain herself and for some reason she can't tell SHIELD about it.

Why? Because its THIS SHOW.

Either way, if you're hoping this means Daisy will somehow end up with less focus and maybe not even appear in every episode next season then, to quote Ramsey Bolton, "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." If anything I expect even MORE focus on Daisy next season with either the A or B plot of every episode devoted to her off the grid activities.

Why? Because its THIS SHOW.

[Ikki]

But why was Lincoln Jesus though.

[tennisgurl]

So glad John Hannah is sticking around. He will always be Battiatus from Spartacus to me, but I liked this guy a lot.

I thought this was a good finale, and this was a pretty solid season, even with some bumps in the road. I liked Lincoln (especially when he was hanging out with May), so I was sad to see him die. At least in the last couple episodes, he had more to do than be Daisys love interest. I saw him being the death coming, but it still sucked. 

Not enough FitzSimmons this second half of the season, but I guess I should be happy about that. Everytime they get focus, the writers just torture them, physically and emotionally, so them being a happy couple couple in the background might be whats best for them. I still hope they get more to do next season. 

So Daisy is a vigilante goth fighting for Inhumans? Guess its something for her to do.  

Edited May 19, 2016 by tennisgurl

[rab01]

1 hour ago, kitlee625 said:

So I've actually done some analysis of this (although I haven't finished incorporating season 3's data yet). IMHO, I care less about each individual death than I do the overall pattern. Certainly the show has a lot of violence and death across the board, but IMHO the concern is that this disproportionately affects white women and POC. There is still a lot of death among white men as well, but they are more likely to go through the show unscathed. For example, if you look at recurring characters with multiple appearances, ~55% of white men have died on the show, compared to 100% of white women, 65% of black men, and 88% of women of color. (Another thing to note with these numbers is that there aren't as many recurring women and people of color as there are white men.)

Do Daisy or Bobbi count as recurring characters in your analysis? Does Sif? I can't think of too many non-lead characters that aren't killed off eventually (that's what redshirts tend to do ...) But the last part of your paragraph is the more important issue if you are concerned with diversity, the percentages of who is brought onto the show rather that the method by which characters leave it. Departures really matter only if it descends to the level of The Walking Dead, where the advent of a new African American male character starts the countdown clock on the death of another African American man.

As for this last episode, I have to give props to the actress playing Daisy. She definitely made me believe she was in the moment and emoting what the character was feeling.  Also, her acting choices leading up to begging Hive to be rejoined all worked in furtherance of that scene. They didn't reveal what was going to happen but made more sense in retrospect.

I'm so glad that Ward's body is gone. The actor is charming in other settings but everything they had him do on this show came off as a bit wooden and removed to me.  I know he has fans here but I'll happily root for him to be in many other projects away from Grant Ward.

Lastly, the teaser with AIDA was not at all menacing to me but the music cue wanted me to think it was. I guess she will become a problem but I'd much rather see a new Jarvis type AI, than another Ultron type AI.

[VCRTracking]

In the comics Tony Stark becomes director of SHIELD after Civil War, but since it's unlikely that they can get RDJ on the show, and they want to keep Coulson alive a secret from him and the other Avengers I doubt it's him.

I'm totally down with Maria Hill as the new director. I'd love to see Colbie Smulders come back on TV.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Agents Of SHIELD Brings The Action

Hive and SHIELD face off in the season finale, and someone dies. A few people, in fact!

[maraleia]

6 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

So I've actually done some analysis of this (although I haven't finished incorporating season 3's data yet). IMHO, I care less about each individual death than I do the overall pattern. Certainly the show has a lot of violence and death across the board, but IMHO the concern is that this disproportionately affects white women and POC. There is still a lot of death among white men as well, but they are more likely to go through the show unscathed. For example, if you look at recurring characters with multiple appearances, ~55% of white men have died on the show, compared to 100% of white women, 65% of black men, and 88% of women of color. (Another thing to note with these numbers is that there aren't as many recurring women and people of color as there are white men.)

 

However, I think that death is actually less different between groups than the incidence of torture, which disproportionately affects women of color. Despite making up only 11% of characters, women of color are 40% of the characters tortured. (Torture is much less common than death.)

Thanks for answering this query for me. This is similar to the kill the lesbians trope that is happening over and over again in recent months. http://www.autostraddle.com/all-65-dead-lesbian-and-bisexual-characters-on-tv-and-how-they-died-312315/

[fellini]

This show kills off characters way too much. They had Flash die and then Lincoln and so many others. I wish there were less deaths during the season.

[Raja]

2 minutes ago, fellini said:

This show kills off characters way too much. They had Flash die and then Lincoln and so many others. I wish there were less deaths during the season.

You mean comic shows in general? The Flash I am sure will be resurrected if he hasn't already that can't be a spoiler.

[fellini]

4 minutes ago, Raja said:

You mean comic shows in general? The Flash I am sure will be resurrected if he hasn't already that can't be a spoiler.

Well Gotham kills off characters all the time too, so yeah comic shows in general seem to kill off characters way too much.

Edited May 19, 2016 by fellini
correction

[Raja]

14 minutes ago, fellini said:

Well Gotham kills off characters all the time too, so yeah comic shows in general seem to kill off characters way too much.

Well to paraphrase Civil War there are a bunch of walking nuclear weapons in play, at the very least people who are loaded guns which can't be disarmed. While we head canon that a hit from a Captain America doesn't normally kill from what the MCU had demonstrated his strength and power any fight super soldiers have should be leaving dead bodies behind not unconscious SHIELD , Hydra or others. That may be part of ABC's reasoning behind first the move to 9 and now to 10 to go darker like Gotham or the critically acclaimed NetFlix Marvel shows.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Raja

[TVSpectator]

11 hours ago, mac123x said:

Oooh, maybe we're in an alternate universe, like on Fringe when they intentionally misspelled "Manhatan".  Which, now that I think about it, I hope not.  Shows rarely if ever deal with the alternate reality / Earth 2 / mirror universe well.

 

I'm yes, this whole MCU thing is supposed to take place in another universe, but the catch is that it is supposed to heavily mirror ours (and I should really imply, the "heavily" ours bit here). Because the idea in all of the comics, or at least in the mainstream comic universe, which is Earth-616, is that the universe (or just the Earth) is pretty much an 80-90% like ours. In cultural, in history, in physics, in everyday technology, in biology, in just about everything (including in current politics- in the comics Obama is the US president) is just like our universe. The only exceptions would be the superhero/supervillain aspect and also  a few things that doesn't exist in our universe (like Dr. Doom's home country-I can't remember the name, S.H.I.E.L.D./Hydra, Wakanda, etc...). So, that city should've been spelled correctly. I know that this is a different universe than Earth-616, and things are supposed to be different but it seems (especially when you watch the Marvel Netflix shows) it is a lot like ours. So, I would say that someone totally screwed up (and also, I think that a similar spelling mistake happened on Jessica Jones. Her cell had misspelled the word, "unknown"). 

Although, I would be totally down with the idea that cities are spelled different in the Earth-199999 universe (which is the MCU's number and a fun fact, our reality is labeled Earth-1218). 

1 hour ago, fellini said:

This show kills off characters way too much. They had Flash die and then Lincoln and so many others. I wish there were less deaths during the season.

 

1 hour ago, Raja said:

You mean comic shows in general? The Flash I am sure will be resurrected if he hasn't already that can't be a spoiler.

 

1 hour ago, fellini said:

Well Gotham kills off characters all the time too, so yeah comic shows in general seem to kill off characters way too much.

To be fair, I just started to watch The Flash but, IMO, it does seem that this show has a really high death count than compared to shows like Supergirl, The Flash, and Gotham (although, I haven't been watching Gotham  in a while and now I feel that I have to catch up with it). Yes, all of those shows  all have the usual "accidental killings"  of the bad guy mooks but this show does seem to have a much higher death count. Especially with their side/reoccurring characters. Also, it seems that a lot of the deaths (of the reoccurring characters) have been just brushed aside; well at least Coulson brought up Rosalind's death and I guess it did make an impact on him (with his revenge-fueled murderous rampage). 

[xqueenfrostine]

19 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Aida is not an Irish name (unlike Aidan, which is Irish).

My comment about Aidan also being an Irish name was actually in reference to Ada (which Sandman said was English/Irish, though it actually appears to have Germanic origin), not the name Aida.  I was responding to his comment about how he would have expected Aida (as opposed to Ada) to be spelled based on its pronunciation, and was pointing out that "ai" being pronounced as a long A isn't uncommon. In any case, the name "AIDA" was most likely chosen as an acronym and not for etymological reasons so the original name origin is likely moot.

Edited May 20, 2016 by xqueenfrostine

[DeLurker]

I totally squeed when Mack showed up with the shotgun-axe!  They were seriously jerking my chain that Elena was going to die and then she made Mack cauterize the wound , bit yeah!  She lived!

And Dr Radcliffe looks to be hanging about for a bit, so another win as far as I am concerned.

I like Daisy, but they have everyone go on about her that she's Agent Special Snowflake Johnson. But her acting has definitely upped since S1.  She was selling it in the "take me back" scene and when talking with Lincoln after he got hit.  

[AKA...CJ86]

Loved the appearance of the Shotgun-Axe!

I'll Miss Ward...GoodWard...BadWard...SquidWard... 

So, moving forward, I hope Daisy's out...like just an occasional appearance next season...I don't need an entire season of Hunting Daisy...but did like the ending with a shoutout to the mystic hobo's family...

ETA:  I'll miss Lincoln most of all...I was one of what, the two Lincoln fans here

Edited May 20, 2016 by CyberJawa1986

[VCRTracking]

Thinking it over I don't think Daisy going rogue was all about Lincoln but probably more because she didn't want to be registered as part of the Sokovia Accords and so we get SHIELD hunting down an enhanced vigilante who won't play by the rules. Coulson and Mac want to find her first before the police or army try to kill her. Even though it's the same as Captain America as his team at the end of Civil War, they(except Ant-Man) won't be seen until the next Avengers movie so we weren't going to see them hiding out and being fugitives for two years.

[mac123x]

12 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

Oooh, maybe we're in an alternate universe, like on Fringe when they intentionally misspelled "Manhatan".  Which, now that I think about it, I hope not.  Shows rarely if ever deal with the alternate reality / Earth 2 / mirror universe well.

 

12 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

So, that city should've been spelled correctly.

I wasn't suggesting that AoS's universe is a parallel to ours.   I meant that maybe, in-show, they were going to do a two-worlds story like they did on Fringe -- most everyone has a doppleganger, but their lives have been slightly different so they're different people who behave differently.  People from the original world cross over to theirs eventually and have to pretend to be their counterparts and it goes horribly, etc. 

 

On Fringe, one of the first indicators that we were viewing events on the Other Side was that they misspelled "Manahatan".  A lot of people assumed it was a production error when it was actually deliberate. 
 

The truth is AoS probably just had a production error.  I sincerely hope they aren't doing a two-worlds story because those inevitably go off the rails.

[Chaos Theory]

My guess is that Ward is gone for good now.  Since he has been on the show since day one they did a bit of a mini flashback with him when SquidWard was having his identity crisis.  I think that was a tribute type thing to what amounts to a long running character.

 

As for Daisy I am looking forward  to her dark turn.  I know it is a bit of an unpopular opinion but she has become my favorite character and I love a good downward spiral.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[TVSpectator]

9 hours ago, mac123x said:

 

I wasn't suggesting that AoS's universe is a parallel to ours.   I meant that maybe, in-show, they were going to do a two-worlds story like they did on Fringe -- most everyone has a doppleganger, but their lives have been slightly different so they're different people who behave differently.  People from the original world cross over to theirs eventually and have to pretend to be their counterparts and it goes horribly, etc. 

 

On Fringe, one of the first indicators that we were viewing events on the Other Side was that they misspelled "Manahatan".  A lot of people assumed it was a production error when it was actually deliberate. 
 

The truth is AoS probably just had a production error.  I sincerely hope they aren't doing a two-worlds story because those inevitably go off the rails.

 

Oh, I now know what you were saying and yes, I also think it's a production error (a similar production error happened on Jessica Jones- in one scene her cell phone screen misspelled "unknown"). IMO, it would be nice to see what makes the MCU different than our Earth (besides the obvious reasons), but I don't think they will do that, ever. So, when it was pointed out to me, I truly did get a bit excited, but I also realized that it's more likely than not a production error (and there were a few others this season as well). 

15 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Thinking it over I don't think Daisy going rogue was all about Lincoln but probably more because she didn't want to be registered as part of the Sokovia Accords and so we get SHIELD hunting down an enhanced vigilante who won't play by the rules. Coulson and Mac want to find her first before the police or army try to kill her. Even though it's the same as Captain America as his team at the end of Civil War, they(except Ant-Man) won't be seen until the next Avengers movie so we weren't going to see them hiding out and being fugitives for two years.

 

You know, IMO, I really don't know since we got a 6 months time jump. At first, I was sure it had more to do with Lincoln's death than the Accords but maybe they will shoehorn that into next season. 

[Tim Thomason]

San Francisco was the setting of the film Ant-Man, so if they were going to establish an alternate spelling, somehow (is Spanish a different language all of a sudden?), then they would've done so there. The spelling of "San Fransisco" occurred in the first line of a newspaper article - with the newspaper prominently headlined "San Francisco Chronicle".

[thuganomics85]

Shotgun axe for the win!

Finally found time to see this, and I was surprisingly able to remain unspoiled for it.  That said, because of that, I suspected the big "death" would be someone who wasn't too important, because I figured the reaction would have been huge if it was someone along the lines of Daisy, May, Fitz/Simmons, Mack, etc.  So, I wasn't surprised at all when it ended up being Lincoln, and I can't say I'm going to be too upset over it.  It's sad, because I really do like Luke Mitchell, but Lincoln was just kind of dull for me.  He did get a bit better when they allowed him to play off other team members, but he still never seemed to move past being Daisy's bland boyfriend, who just had cool powers.  So, there really wasn't anywhere to go but give him a "noble sacrifice."  I do hope Luke finds another role that is better suited for him: someone along the lines of his John Young from The Tomorrow People.

Well, I guess Ward might be gone for good too, now that Hive Ward got blown up alongside Lincoln.  But I don't know.  I just have the feeling that someone behind the scenes really likes the character or Brett Dalton, and they'll keep finding ways to have him remain aboard.  I can totally see him being gone at first, but him somehow making a "surprise return" mid-season, playing anything from a Clone Ward to a Alternate Universe Ward.

Chloe Bennett acted the hell out of her scenes, even if the self-loathing got too much at times.  I still enjoy the character enough, but I do think I've accepted a long time ago that, despite being the fourth-billed actor, Daisy really is the lead of this show, for better or worse.  She's not my favorite, but it isn't enough to sway me from watching... yet.  Not sure I'm a fan of her on the run though.  The Goth look was also too goofy for me.

So thrilled Dr. Radcliffe is still around and being set-up for a potentially major role next season.  John Hannah was slaying it.  My favorite part was Radcliffe automatically assuming Talbot was important because of his moustache.  Not sure what he's up too though.  If it is some kind of artificial clone or something, I'm really hoping it turns out Radcliffe is secretly a fan of Hartley somehow, and it's in her image, so I can get my John Hannah/Lucy Lawless reunion, that I really, really want.

"Snorkling", huh?  Sure, Simmons.  That's totally what you and Fitz will be doing on your little vacation.

I so hope Talbot continues to pop in from time to time too.  I like that he's move pass being a thorn in their side, but he still has a bit of an edge and isn't afraid to confront Coulson and the rest, if he disagrees with them.  But I like how he plays off everyone else too.

New Director of Shield, huh?  I missed the part about it sounding like it was a woman, so if that's the case, I guess the most obvious choice would be May, unless they somehow convince Cobie Smulders to pop back up as Maria Hill.  Unless it's Simmons, but that is way too much of a stretch for me.  I could just be someone new, and maybe they're waiting to cast the role.  I guess we'll find out next season.

Still wonder if they'll try and find a way to work Bobbi and Hunter back onto this show, now that the spin-off is a no go.

Solid enough of a finale, I guess.  This show won't ever be my favorite, but I think it's fun enough entertainment.

[LilJen]

On 5/18/2016 at 11:04 PM, Lantern7 said:

So Ward is dead for good now, right? Or will he be brought back as an LMD?

I was okay with the finale. Should be interesting to see how dark the show can get in a 10 p.m. slot. Will Daisy's dark makeup be a permanent thing?

Oh, Phil. Channeling Princess Leia. You can't outdork Cisco Ramone, but you look good doing it.

I was going to say that I have missed all the Koenigs this season :(

And the Princess Leia moment and the shotgun-axe were nearly the only good things in the 2nd hour. Rest of it was pretty silly in my opinion.

Edited May 21, 2016 by LilJen

[teenj12]

It was a well-written finale. I guess I wanted a little more super-action, but the Daisy-Hive fight was really great. Chloe Bennet also really sold it with her acting. Speaking on the 6-months later revelation, I have to admit that it caught me off guard. Daisy's goth look was weird to me too. I mean, the clothes reminded me of her S1 Hacker-style wardrobe, but the goth-ness is still a little jarring. I wonder why they didn't put her in a more tradional vigilante/superhero-outfit, now that she's taken on the Quake codename. Either way, I'm excited to see where this goes.

Coulson no longer heading SHIELD tho...is May the new director? I would really love that, but I have a feeling it'll be Talbot.

Edited May 21, 2016 by teenj12

[ottoDbusdriver]

5 hours ago, LilJen said:

I was going to say that I have missed all the Koenigs this season :(

And the Princess Leia moment and the shotgun-axe were nearly the only good things in the 2nd hour. Rest of it was pretty silly in my opinion.

I was surprised when the Hive minions started taking over the S.H.I.E.L.D. base and there was no Koenig to demand that they wait until they have all been issued lanyards before they broke Hive out of the gel block.