S32.E13: With Me Or Not With Me

[thehepburn]

I just checked and Dalton Ross (EW) ranks this season 16th out of 32. Sounds about right. 

There is a rider tho. He says that it will zoom to 1 if Mark wins.

[Jobiska]

Yeah, I don't think I'd try to get between a Survivor on reward and whatever his teeth are tearing into.  And of course the interview where Cydney says it was a dumb idea to eat all that beef was filmed after he ate all that beef.  I doubt she was sitting there thinking in great detail about upcoming bowel issues, just a passing thought that she then expanded upon in her talking head.

I've been an Aubry fan all along, but would feel an argument could be made that any of the rest deserved it, and I like all of them well enough.  It will be interesting to see how Aubry's strategy changes now without Joe.  She'll really deserve it if she gets there without her second vote.

[Hanahope]

Definitely sorry to see Joe go out like this,  but I do like that the game opened up a bit, now that Aubry doesn't have her auto-second vote.  I could see arguments for all four of them being the winner.  Personally, I think if Tai makes it to the F3, he'll get Jason, Scot's and maybe Nick's votes, solely due to penis.  I think all of them are the type that 'respect' the man that takes them out, but hates the woman that does the same.  I think the only way they'd vote for a woman is if there's no choice (maybe they'd not vote for Joe, but I'm not even sure about that).  So for that reason alone, I'd like to see Tai gone next episode to make it a true 'anyone's game' in the F3 (because honestly, I'm not sure which would win - all have gotten decent enough edits, none seem particularly bad).  Aubry probably has the best edit and argument, so my gut says she'll win,  but I could really see any of them winning depending on how the jury feels.

I'm truly surprised there was no family visit, I suppose they got the letters from home, but only one got that.

I really don't think Cyd thought Joe would have the problem he had.  She may have thought he'd have the runs, which while uncomfortable, are usually not life threatening.

I know we don't see the whole story, certainly editing showed us that Tai was only interested in voting off Michelle, so I don't quite get his claim that he would have considered Jason, if he'd been told the vote.  It seemed like he wasn't going to go along with that idea no matter what, which is why he felt the need to use his second vote.  It was nice that both were able to talk things out and get along for that day alone.

[peachmangosteen]

It doesn't bother me that Cydney didn't warn Joe, but I would have thought better of her if she had warned him.

I am astonished that so many find this season boring. It's unpredictable as hell! Even now I have no idea who will win and that is just so rare. Last season was great, but it was so clear from like ep 1 that Jeremy would win. Basically most seasons are actually very predictable. And it's not like I don't know who will win because everyone has a bad/invisible edit, it's actually because the edit has made it so I would be able to understand how anyone left won. It's amazing!

If the F3 is Aubry/Cydney/Michele then honestly this season might make my top 5. If Tai gets in there over one of them then it'd probably still be in my top 10.

[Jersey Guy 87]

6 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

To me Jeff's pontificating, while hilariously tone-deaf and poorly timed, was not all that bad from a moral standpoint, because Joe's condition didn't seem to be that serious or time-sensitive.  Frankly it seemed to me like Joe quit more than was pulled from the game.  He didn't seem upset or even to care and he moseyed unhurriedly into the evacuation boat or whatever it was.  So he has to sit through a big Probst Paean about how inspiring and incredible he is, cry me a river.  I feel sorry for his discomfort but only in the way I feel sorry for anyone who's constipated, which is thousands of people at any given moment.  As a character on Survivor he was utterly worthless, a waste of a spot like few before him, so pathetic a follower that he couldn't even choose his own reward partners, and while he managed a humorously tedious reward challenge win (what a terribly designed challenge that was) he also brought us an hour of poop and prostate talk, to remember him by.  And his leaving, obedient goat that he was, opens up the game a little, since Aubry no longer has a better Advantage than Dan, Tai, or Stephen won, because she could use 2 votes perpetually, plus bring her 2nd Vote Idol to the end to get no votes and bring her the win; and she won this Advantage basically just by being picked for the blue team by the casting crew.  Good riddance.

I think Joe's condition was actually very serious and I don't think he quit as much as accepted his fate.  He was aware of the danger he was in because of his condition and knew he was being pulled.  He wasn't a very good player, he was basically just an extra vote for Aubry but he was also having a serious medical issue.

I don't know why Aubry didn't reach out to Michelle about going after Cydney as well as Tai - was she worried Michelle would go to Cydney?  Given how erratic Tai plays I wouldn't put all my chips in the "I'll get Tai to go along with my plan" basket.  Counting on Tai has proven to be the downfall of several players so far.

[thehepburn]

9 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

 

Tai's whining and treatment of Michele was so gross. She was part of the alliance while he was putting out fires, hiding tools and acting like an asshole at TC with his badly tattooed buddies. Then, the crying over it. I can only imagine what the reaction would be if an older woman stabbed people in the back, acted like an asshole when she had power, then cried about the game. Y'know, like Dawn. 

 

 

Thanks for pointing this out. I disliked Dawn from the first episode of S23 and I've been one of the biggest nay-sayers of Tai here since E2. I really dont like these type of emotion vampires/ energy attention whores in the game of Survivor.

[neh]

I just can't give Cydney a pass on not saying something to Joe about the possible consequences from eating all that beef.  Cydney's behavior was exactly the same in the beginning of the show, when she just watched the grub crawl in and out of her tribemate's ear and didn't try to get it.

[peachmangosteen]

2 minutes ago, neh said:

I just can't give Cydney a pass on not saying something to Joe about the possible consequences from eating all that beef.  Cydney's behavior was exactly the same in the beginning of the show, when she just watched the grub crawl in and out of her tribemate's ear and didn't try to get it.

Cydney does seem to take that "I'm gonna lay low and not say anything" strategy very seriously. Maybe too seriously! Unless she randomly decides to get pissed at you and then she lets her pettiness/emotions dictate her game decisions. That being said, I've grown to like Cydney well enough and I wouldn't hate to see her win, but I'm rooting for Aubry and Michele more.

[JudyObscure]

I don't blame Cydney for what happened to Joe, but I don't blame Joe either.  It's easy to sit here and say he shouldn't have pigged out but how many of us have gone 35 days with only about 300 calories a day, and then when confronted with a feast, been all moderate and restrained?  Cydney was but fitness is her specialty, plus she had, had personal experience with the beef-constipation issue.  For all we know, Aubry may have eaten just as much as he did but her body handled it better.

Joe did not say that he didn't eat meat.  He said he was, "Not a real big meat eater. Not a big steak guy."  I just took that to mean he wasn't like a lot of macho military men who have to have prime rib or a T-bone every single night.  He knew that his prostate problem could cause pressure on his bladder but I doubt if he knew that, beef, unlike other sources of protein requires a special enzyme for easy digestion that is lost after a period of beef-abstinence.  However, the show's nutritionist should know that and that's why I blame them.  Offer these starving people a seafood and fruit feast, not tasty beef kabobs.

[peachmangosteen]

6 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Joe did not say that he didn't eat meat.  He said he was, "Not a real big meat eater. Not a big steak guy."

He said that at the reward but then he told Jeff he doesn't eat meat. I think what he said at the reward was probably closer to the actual truth.

I don't really blame him for eating so much. This is precisely why I would never even want to win rewards if I were on the show. I would know that eating would fuck me up but it would probably be pretty hard to resist.

Edited May 12, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[thehepburn]

12 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

He said that at the reward but then he told Jeff he doesn't eat meat. I think what he said at the reward was probably closer to the actual truth.

 

That's exactly how it went. Joe sounds like an occaisional meat eater, certainly not a "meat collector" like most dudes.

[ellie2205]

I have thought Tai = Dawn for several episodes now, so totally agree with that sentiment.  He plays the game emotionally, and stabs people in the back but makes it awkward instead of efficient (or mending relationships if need be).  So those people no longer feel a connection to him or feel very betrayed.  I don't think he'll get many (or any) votes in the final tribal council.

When Joe was extolling Aubry's game at reward in front of Cydney, I feel like Aubry had to be thinking, "Joe, shut up ..."  He literally said that she was going to win and he and Cydney were along for the ride, while Aubry correctly interpreted that Cydney was not feeling that way.

It is ridiculous (in my opinion) to think Cydney should've told Joe to eat less meat.  a) Maybe she did (as mentioned above). b) Even if she did, I'm sure he would've told her to shut up (in perhaps slightly nicer crotchety old-man language) judging from all the interactions we've seen between him and other players suggesting what to do. c) He's an adult. d) That confessional could very well have been filmed after the reward was finished (also suggested by someone else above) or even after he was already med-evac'ed!

Regarding Joe, I think it was an emergency, just a really easily treatable emergency.  About the line between medications and IV, I imagine/hope they have at least some rules written down, but I'm guessing it's something like this: They just gave him some constipation medication (oral), and if that was enough to get him going and relieve his issues, he could've stayed in the game. The oral medication to me is similar to the prophylactic antibiotics they gave to some people (including Aubry, I think?) for their boils earlier in the season. However, anything that requires a procedure (like an IV, or urinary catheterization which also could have helped him in this case) is beyond "regular medication" and requires leaving. Basically as soon as Joe poops and/or pees, he'll be okay, but they can't get him to poop or pee without a medical procedure, so he has to go.  I do think it was pretty cruel to wait until evening to get him, though. Like, what was up with that? They wanted dramatic night vision cameras? He wanted to see one last sunset? He said he was in excruciating pain, get him out of there! Straight cath that man!

Prior to his evacuation, I thought Aubry's bringing along Joe was similar to Sophie bringing along Coach.  Survivor strategy if you are a woman: you bring along an older man as your "pretty young girl"?  Any other examples of this that you experts know of?

I seem to have had a lot to say, but I thought it was a pretty boring episode, or at least conclusion of the episode. I am pretty interested in this final 4 though. I mean, Aubry has to win, right? (no spoilers here just my opinion)

[Special K]

On 5/10/2016 at 1:38 PM, Tara Ariano said:

Quote

Another castaway is voted out of the game.

They aren't even trying with these teasers anymore, are they?  It's not even factual!

[peachmangosteen]

5 minutes ago, ellie2205 said:

I do think it was pretty cruel to wait until evening to get him, though. Like, what was up with that? They wanted dramatic night vision cameras? He wanted to see one last sunset? He said he was in excruciating pain, get him out of there! Straight cath that man!

I found that very odd, too. Especially considering it was pretty clear that all of them knew he would be med evaced much earlier in the day. I guess maybe the doctor and/or Jeff was just too busy to come any earlier and they didn't feel it was something they had to be super fast with.

2 minutes ago, Special K said:

They aren't even trying with these teasers anymore, are they?  It's not even factual!

TV Guide and tivo have been having full descriptions all season so I don't know where these non-existent descriptions they're posting here are coming from.

Edited May 12, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[kikaha]

40 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I am astonished that so many find this season boring. It's unpredictable as hell! Even now I have no idea who will win and that is just so rare.

 

It's unpredictable, but I just don't care much who wins.  No one's play or character has captivated me.  Don't hate or love any contestant.  Haven't seen anything new and noteworthy... or memorable from a game standpoint. 

I'm watching, but this is the biggest yawn I recall in many years of Survivor.  Of course, 2nd chance was a hard act to follow. 

[peachmangosteen]

Oh ok it's just that people don't like these contestants. Man for me this may be my most liked F4 ever. I usually hate like at least 3 of the F4 lol.

[fishcakes]

What a damp episode.

 

14 hours ago, wallflower75 said:

 As they pointed out at the start of the show, Tai's betrayed every alliance he's been in. 

This is a myth that seems to have hardened into fact. Tai was in an alliance with Caleb who was medevaced, then he was in an alliance with Scot and Jason, which he flipped on, then he was in an alliance with Aubry, Joe, and Cydney, who lied to him by saying they were voting for Michele with him. He's flipped on one alliance, not two as Jason claims and not three as Michele claims.

 

7 hours ago, InfiniteMystery said:

Why didn't Aubrey let Tai in on the vote last week? It wouldn't have changed the results and she would have kept him as a very strong ally as they all know Tai is emotional. Even if she knew what his advantage was, it still makes no sense to me.

Exactly. Aubry is not impressing me with her gameplay the last couple of episodes, and she seems to do a lot of projecting. She claimed Debbie was an emotional not a logical player and that Tai is emotionally needy, but this describes her as much as if not more than them. For the reward, she chooses Cydney because she says Tai feels like she betrayed him (uh, maybe because she actually betrayed him?) and so now she needs to lock down F3 with Cydney and vote Tai out. Then Joe says a few nice things about Cydney during the reward and Aubry immediately panics about what a threat Cydney is and how she needs to lock down Tai for F3 and vote Cyd out.  I thought it was telling that when Tai said something like, "I'm confused because you told me you were voting for Michele," her response is a whiny, "I'm confused too! Because ..." and she had nothing to say because what is there for her to be confused about? She was trying hard to act like her lying to Tai was Tai's fault, and that everything he was feeling she was feeling double, but naaaah. I'm pretty sure she believes it though. Also, I think the editors hate her for some reason because there are a lot of shots of her doing something awkward or unattractive, like the extreme close-ups of her chewing on what looked like two pounds of food in her mouth. I still think she could win it, but this is not a winner's edit. If anything, all the shots of her looking like she's being tortured remind me of how I knew Marty from Nicaragua was not winning because they showed night cam shots of him picking his nose.

Edited May 12, 2016 by fishcakes

[Jersey Guy 87]

1 hour ago, neh said:

I just can't give Cydney a pass on not saying something to Joe about the possible consequences from eating all that beef.  Cydney's behavior was exactly the same in the beginning of the show, when she just watched the grub crawl in and out of her tribemate's ear and didn't try to get it.

From a strategic standpoint it was kind of dumb - I think everyone left wanted to take Joe to the end as a goat, you do everything you can to make sure the goat makes it.  But I doubt she realized he'd get so sick he'd be medivaced.

32 minutes ago, ellie2205 said:

When Joe was extolling Aubry's game at reward in front of Cydney, I feel like Aubry had to be thinking, "Joe, shut up ..."  He literally said that she was going to win and he and Cydney were along for the ride, while Aubry correctly interpreted that Cydney was not feeling that way.

 

Yeah, that was some serious blundering by Joe.  He probably realized he had no shot at the grand prize but why put a target on Aubry's back?

[pricklypear]

In Cydney's defense, I mentioned earlier that I had suffered a couple of uncomfortable nights having done something similar to Joe. I may have said the same exact thing Cydney said ("From my own experience, he is not going to be loving life in a little while."). It never would have occurred to me that Joe would suffer some life-threatening condition from eating too much beef. I would have just thought he would have a miserable night ahead of him, things would get moving, and then all would be good. Just like it does most of the time. 

[Bouffe]

13 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

**Unpopular Opinion Alert** I think that Tai has played a very good game and I think that he can make a case to the jury of that. Sure, he emotionally flip-flopped (yeah, I didn't like the putting out the fire either-but if that is his only discretion, I can live with it), but I have also seen a lot of other people switch alliances when it suits their personal game and goals. Yet, it seems like Tai gets called out for it more than everyone. Generally speaking, if we have a straight Pagonging with one alliance of 4 from the beginning that dominates, the threads are full of people screaming about how no one shakes it up and takes a risk to change that dynamic. Yet, when Tai does exactly that, people (no one in particular) really hate him for it. It can't be both ways. Staid and boring, or being unpredictable. I think that if Aubry makes it to the end, she may have a hard time convincing everyone of the jury that SHE was the mastermind. Yet, Tai is out there and everyone would acknowledge that he was all over the place, but he played the game and was obvious about it. He found an idol and played hard and did well in challenges. If he gets to tribal and owns his game and apologizes to anyone that eh hurt, he could win. I think that the penis patrol will be more willing to vote for a male than female, just cause of the penis factor. So, even if Scott and Kyle are angry with him, they will feel ok about it, if he flatters them with the standard, "I had to vote you out, you were too strong. And I am sorry".  I think that Tai has been getting a winner's edit, but that is just me. MMV

I think Tai has a really good chance at winning IF he owns his game. He has to. I didn't think he had that in him from how he's been portrayed so far in the game, until tonight. He was talking with Michelle about the fact he wanted her out, and he told her, paraphrasing here, that he hated to betray people but that it is a game, and that's how one plays. So maybe he will own his game if he makes FTC? I hope so.

I would also be very happy with an Aubry win. She is smart, she plays hard, she's been hit with more twists and turns than anyone (her two closest allies medivaced?) but comes back from it. She knows how to read people. If the three women make it to FTC, I think Aubry wins. If Tai makes it with Cyd and Aubry, FTC and final vote might be quite interesting! I really don't think Michelle has a chance of winning against anyone.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Elimination (And The Lack Thereof) Is Crucial On Survivor

Survivor contestants have always battled the brutality of the elements and the duplicity of their teammates, but this week, the most frightening enemy is bodily functions.

[Wandering Snark]

1 hour ago, Boilergal said:

IMO - It is super rude/tacky to come back from a reward and talk about all the food available and how much you ate.  I know it was Joe's first reward and he was super excited - but still

This was the first thing I thought of too. He kept going on even when he should have "sensed the room" and quit it. Several times.

He also did one helluva torpedo of Aubry's game with his effusive comments to Cyd about how pointless they were compared to Aubry's god-like gameplay.

So this is why Aubry makes sure Joe doesn't talk to the others then? Because the only worse talker out there is Tai.

Joe may have mellowed with time but he was heinous early on and was a 'fire bully' throughout. Jeff's eulogy as I called it really painted an overly rosy picture about how "amazing" he was. Joe was there. That's about it. He moreso 'experienced' the game rather than 'played' it. He let Aubry make all his decisions right through to who should come on the fated reward.

[ljenkins782]

Quote

Given what we've seen of Tai at tribal councils and his complete inability to read a room, he could very well pull off a performance that alienates the jury at FTC.  We won't know unless he ends up there.  (So far, I remain unimpressed by his ability to convince anyone of anything, so I wouldn't be calling him the automatic winner if he makes FTC.)

Yeah, his off-the-cuff speaking is likely to pose a problem for Tai. He's too honest and he doesn't phrase things with as much tact as he should. Or else he does and the edited version they're showing of his conversations are showing the worst parts, which is also significant. 

Quote

It's a game.  He ate a lot of beef and made himself sick on it, even though he's not a meat-eater.  I'm honestly surprised people think it was Cydney's responsibility to stop all of this just because she made a statement to the camera about it, but I'll try to let it go. 

I just think its interesting that the editors specifically put that in. Either it was just intended to foreshadow what was about to happen or it's supposed to make Cydney look bad.

I'm bummed that there was no TC because I really wanted to see where Aubry and Cydney were going to land. I have a feeling Cydney might have taken Michelle out because Tai isn't an option and Aubry wasn't voting for Joe. 

Felt bad for Joe. Not just for being in pain, but seriously, talking about blocked urethra and constipation in front of a camera crew is about as embarrassing as it gets. And Jeff (probably unintentionally, but still) basically rubbing his age in his face was irritating. Like, "hey, you're in great shape, you've done the best you can do but you're still old, so sorry..." 

ETA:

Quote

 

He also did one helluva torpedo of Aubry's game with his effusive comments to Cyd about how pointless they were compared to Aubry's god-like gameplay.

So this is why Aubry makes sure Joe doesn't talk to the others then? Because the only worse talker out there is Tai.

 

Oh yeah, that was bad. That's the kind of speech you only want someone to make about you when you're sitting in the finals. 

Joe being on the jury now could be bad for Aubry, the other three know she's got his vote locked up, one more reason to get rid of her if they can.

Edited May 12, 2016 by ljenkins782

[Bouffe]

12 hours ago, Adeejay said:

I am starting to understand why this season was postponed. It's not very entertaining and most of the players are forgettable. Visiting family members has always been a highlight.  I wonder why that segment was eliminated.  Hopefully, next season will be better. 

Well, obviously YMMV, but I'm finding this season to be pretty entertaining. Several good players making it to the end (Tai, Aubry, Cyd and Michelle to an extend), no goat at the end, Debbie was entertaining (I liked her! and her million jobs!), bullies who got the crap kicked out of them, that whole super idol thing that blew in Jason's and Scot's face... I don't know, I like this season. :) Not my absolute favourite, but I like it!

[Special K]

3 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Yeah, his off-the-cuff speaking is likely to pose a problem for Tai. He's too honest and he doesn't phrase things with as much tact as he should. Or else he does and the edited version they're showing of his conversations are showing the worst parts, which is also significant. 

Tai's mouth runs waaay ahead of his mind. And then keeps on running even when his mind has gone back to sleep.  If he gets to FTC, he has a great case to make for himself, but I can't see him doing that given how emotionally ragged he is seeming.  Who knows if it would matter, though.

I fear that Aubry has alienated enough people on the jury, but sometimes even betrayed people can admire and honor good gameplay.  We'll see.  I'm fascinated by the Aubry-type characters -- the ones that seem to be running things and controlling votes, but who never seem to be seriously targeted themselves. OTOH, I bet she was able to stealth her way into that role since she is a woman and a nerdy one at that -- she doesn't come across as alpha.  Even though she is!

[Bouffe]

10 hours ago, backformore said:

Bad episode.  When I watch Survivor, I want to see challenges, alliance, and immunity.  I want people backstabbing and blindsiding at Tribal Council.  
I do NOT want to hear about prostates, constipation, and urinary issues.  There was 15 to 20 minutes worth of discussion on JOe's medical issues, then shots of Joe going into the water to try to poop.   What the hell show is this?  

I certainly do not want an entire season filled with that sort of talk either... And I could have done without the scenes of Joe sitting in the water trying to go... But the scenes where Joe talks about his physical problems didn't bother me. I like that they keep some of the realness of being out on that island with not much at all.  A scripted realness but still... :)

[Keely]

I definitely think Cydney made the conscious choice not to say anything to him about the meat. I don't hold her silence against her but it is something that sticks out in my mind and was the moment she said it to the camera.

That said, the decision to eat it was all on Joe. If you're not used to eating much meat, red meat in particular can be hard as hell on the digestive system. There is no way on earth Joe didn't know the affect it would have on his system. He might not have guessed the extremity of it but to me it was pretty clear he was aware of what was going on in his body in more than a vague 'my stomach hurts' way. If he couldn't control himself, that's on him. Though yes, I feel for him.

[Alapaki]

Given this jury, and Joe's crapping out (couldn't resist), I don't see any clear Goat in this F4.  And I can't remember the last time that was the case.

Michelle has played a good enough social game to survive without being an integral part of any alliance (as Tai hamfistedly pointed out last night), but yet didn't play a completely under-the-radar/coat-tail game either.  Cydney survived being on the outs with her original Brawn alliance and locked up an alliance with Aubrey.  Aubrey went from the verge of quitting to surviving the swaps and facilitating Tai's big move against the Brawns.  And Tai earned immunity and an advantage, made his big move, and survived losing his initial alliance as well.

Like I said last week, the FTC winner may really end up being decided more by who they're sitting next to than who they are.

Given that, I can't say this was a bad season.

But since the F4 consists of 3 women and Tai (even though Cydney is more of a stud than Jason and Scott combined), I guess Jeff got to the end without going through his bottle of hand lotion and thus considers it disappointing.

[Pallas]

27 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Joe being on the jury now could be bad for Aubry, the other three know she's got his vote locked up, one more reason to get rid of her if they can.

But maybe better jury member Joe's one vote for Aubry, than jury member Aubry's two votes (with Joe) for your opponent.

[Bouffe]

51 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

This is a myth that seems to have hardened into fact. Tai was in an alliance with Caleb who was medevaced, then he was in an alliance with Scot and Jason, which he flipped on, then he was in an alliance with Aubry, Joe, and Cydney, who lied to him by saying they were voting for Michele with him. He's flipped on one alliance, not two as Jason claims and not three as Michele claims.

Yep! Besides, he was the #3 man in the Jason/Scot/Tai alliance, so what else was he suppose to do? Just let them vote him out? 

[ProfCrash]

That had to be the most boring episode of Survivor ever.

The aftermath of tribal was fun to watch but after that it was all down hill.

Joe won a challenge because all the others had to wait for him to try and finish his bags. Really? Why the hell couldn't they go out and regather their own bags once they had used all three bags? Why exactly did they have to wait? I don't understand that rule. If they wanted to risk getting hit by flying bags to keep competing they should have been able to.

Then there was the ever painful long ass segment on Joe's not being able to pee and potential kidney damage. Just ugggh. It wasn't as bad as Stephen's issues last year but my god was it boring. Too much meat, already large prostate further enlarged, couldn't pee. Got it. Possible kidney damage bad. Joe goes home. Couldn't they have found other things to fill the time with? Hell, put a fricking Go Pro on Mark the Chicken and let us see the game from his POV. That would have been far more entertaining.

Ugggghhhh

[backformore]

1 hour ago, neh said:

I just can't give Cydney a pass on not saying something to Joe about the possible consequences from eating all that beef.  Cydney's behavior was exactly the same in the beginning of the show, when she just watched the grub crawl in and out of her tribemate's ear and didn't try to get it.

I can't imagine that Cydney warning Joe would have made any difference.  He's the one with the already enlarged prostate, she wouldn't know anything about that.    she would have no reason to think anything other than "if you haven't had meat in a while, and have too much at once, you could have a stomach ache tomorrow."   That's what would happen to most people.  And people over 40 might anticipate a gall bladder attack.   Cydney would have no knowledge of prostate health and the effect of diet on a 70 year old man's urinary tract.

Besides - this is JOE.   Is there any indication that he would take advice from her?  

Just like animals, humans, when we don't have enough food, go into starvation mode, and our metabolism changes to accommodate. Then, when food becomes available, our bodies tell us to load up on it, because the food might not be available again.  Joe's mistake was eating too much of a high-fat food because he was craving calories.  Nutritional deficiencies play a role in cravings.  I've been severely anemic, and the cravings can be out of control.  Joe needed to slow down and eat a more balanced reward meal.   But that's on him.  

I think it's foolish for rewards to include huge amounts of food anyway.  A reward MEAL can be a meal, without it being an opportunity to binge.

[Archery]

I don't think Cydney had any obligation, moral or otherwise, to advise Joe not to eat so much meat.  And how do we know that Aubrey has never experienced GI issues from red meat, yet we don't see her saying anything about it.  Joe's a grown man and Cydney isn't his nurse.  I don't think it had anything at all to do with gameplay in the sense of getting him out of the game.  At most, maybe she thought it would slow him down in the IC if he wasn't feeling well, but he was rarely a contender in physical challenges anyway. 

I do wonder, if they knew this episode had no IC and no TC, why they just didn't shorten it and combine it with the next "day's" episode?  Even if they needed to fill the time, they certainly could have covered what happened in this episode (the RC and conversations) for 1/2 hour, and then had a retrospective of the season, or the back half, with all the blindsides and medical drama.  As it was, the episode was done by the 50 minute mark.  It just seems a waste, because while it was a boring episode to watch, it was a game changer.

I'd like to see Tai voted out because his "story" is the type that a juror could vote for and feel righteous about it, having nothing to do with gameplay or taking into account whether or not he betrayed any alliances. I'd like to see Aubrey, Michelle, and Cydney, because each has her pros and cons.  Scot and Jason might vote for Cydney just because she was Brawn, all other things being equal.

This isn't the first time producers have provided not-so-great food rewards this late in the game.  I don't remember which season it was, but the cast was given fried food after a RC and I remember thinking that the person who won should have just given it to the other players as it would have guaranteed an advantage in the IC.  As it was, consuming a small amount of protein would be a good idea for re-building muscle and providing better fuel than carbs or fruit sugar.  Fish would have been better than beef, though.

Jeff always eulogizes players facing medevac.  It's their moment, and I think he is trying to honor it.  I don't mind it at all. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Archery

[ratgirlagogo]

1 hour ago, pricklypear said:

 

In Cydney's defense, I mentioned earlier that I had suffered a couple of uncomfortable nights having done something similar to Joe. I may have said the same exact thing Cydney said ("From my own experience, he is not going to be loving life in a little while."). It never would have occurred to me that Joe would suffer some life-threatening condition from eating too much beef. I would have just thought he would have a miserable night ahead of him, things would get moving, and then all would be good. Just like it does most of the time. 

 

This isn't the first time a Survivor was medivacced out because of constipation.  There was Bruce in Panama too.  In his case I remember being even more surprised because not only was he much younger than Joe, but he actually led wilderness experience trips IRL and you'd think he would have known how to avoid the problem.  The big complicating factor in both cases IMO was  dehydration.  In Panama I think they were having problems boiling the water and here in Cambodia it was so infernally hot that I'd imagine Joe was losing more water than he should have just because of sweating.

Quote

 I know someone who had a similar prostate issue (without the constipation) and he went into kidney failure pretty quickly.  After hospitalization, he recovered only 30% of his kidney function, and something like 10 years later had lost pretty much all kidney function and had to begin dialysis.  So you don't mess around with or wait on a bladder that doesn't empty.  (Jeff!)

All Joe needed was a catheter to empty his bladder and something to get the blockage out.  If his kidneys haven't been compromised, he should be pretty much good to go.

I think the conditions they were in meant the doctors didn't want to be inserting a catheter out on the beach, also I suspect he also needed to be given fluids.  And yes, didn't the doctor even say he was concerned about potential kidney damage?

Still, while I feel for the guy he wasn't a very entertaining Survivor.  At this point I guess I'd prefer Aubry for the win? But honestly I don't feel that invested.

Edited May 12, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[ProfCrash]

Cydney was not responsible for what Joe ate. Joe has a good deal of life experience and should have known that eating that much beef was going to be a problem. I wonder if Joe was severely anemic and really craving iron, hence his sudden craving for beef. When I was pregnant I learned that most of the cravings that women have are for a specific nutrient that the body needs because the baby is leeching that nutrient. So sugar cravings are not really a desire for a snickers but for fruit, a naturally sweet food that has nutrients that would benefit the mother and fetus. We simply read those cravings wrong because we have access to different foods that we associate with those cravings, like a Snickers bar.

I can see something working the same way for someone who is as starved as the folks on Survivor. Joe's body really needed the nutrients in beef, even though it was awful for his body and he rarely eats it, so it tasted amazing and he kept eating it.

But that is my lame theory

[tvfanatic13]

While I feel a wee bit sorry for Joe, IMO he was THE worst player ever. I was actually laughing at him during the RC and he only won it because of the rule that they needed to wait until everyone went through all of the bean bags. Without that rule, he would still be "running" back with his second bag when the challenge was over. Absolutely pathetic and I am glad his abysmal gameplay will not be rewarded with a seat in the finals (which I suspect will be F2, not F3).

[mojoween]

I just realized that I AM mad at this season because not only was there no family visit, there was also no auction. What the hell, show.

Just kidding Survivor I love you!  I will watch up to the last minute of the last show when 80 year old Probst is yelling at contestants to MOVE MOVE MOVE while he rolls along behind with his walker.

[laurakaye]

3 hours ago, Jobiska said:

Yeah, I don't think I'd try to get between a Survivor on reward and whatever his teeth are tearing into.  And of course the interview where Cydney says it was a dumb idea to eat all that beef was filmed after he ate all that beef.  I doubt she was sitting there thinking in great detail about upcoming bowel issues, just a passing thought that she then expanded upon in her talking head.

 

Exactly this.  During the feast, I doubt Cydney was bothering to keep an eye on what everyone else was eating.  She only made the comment after it was over.  And I'm 100% on the side that even if she had said something to Joe about what he was eating, he'd have brushed her off as he's done in the past.

1 hour ago, Wandering Snark said:

This was the first thing I thought of too. He kept going on even when he should have "sensed the room" and quit it. Several times.

He also did one helluva torpedo of Aubry's game with his effusive comments to Cyd about how pointless they were compared to Aubry's god-like gameplay.

So this is why Aubry makes sure Joe doesn't talk to the others then? Because the only worse talker out there is Tai.

Joe may have mellowed with time but he was heinous early on and was a 'fire bully' throughout. Jeff's eulogy as I called it really painted an overly rosy picture about how "amazing" he was. Joe was there. That's about it. He moreso 'experienced' the game rather than 'played' it. He let Aubry make all his decisions right through to who should come on the fated reward.

Joe has little to no self-awareness.  If it weren't for Aubry bringing him along for the ride, he would've been voted out long ago.

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

Joe won a challenge because all the others had to wait for him to try and finish his bags. Really? Why the hell couldn't they go out and regather their own bags once they had used all three bags? Why exactly did they have to wait? I don't understand that rule. If they wanted to risk getting hit by flying bags to keep competing they should have been able to.

 

That might've been the stupidest challenge I have ever seen on this show.  Did Jeff mention the rule at the beginning that when you use up your bags, you have to stand and wait to see if anyone else hits their targets?  What would've happened if Joe hadn't won...do they all get to go back and grab the bags and start over?  30 seconds of watching the players stand around and wait for Joe was 30 seconds of wasted time, IMO. 

Not sure yet how I feel about this season.  Certainly not in my Top 10, but not as painfully boring as some others.  All I know is, next season had better be pretty interesting, because we've had two seasons of extremely unlikable people play this game, and it may cause some of the more casual viewers to tune out.

[TaraS1]

ITA, Mojoween.  It breaks my heart when there's no auction, it's by far my favorite Survivor challenge!

[ProfCrash]

Jeff said repeatedly that the people who had used up all their bags would have to wait for the others to finish their bags and see if anyone wins. If no one won, then they could go collect their bags. I suppose the idea is to encourage people to focus on accuracy and not on flinging as quickly as they want. If that was the idea, it is stupid.

I have been enjoying this season. Kyle and Scot behaved poorly at times but I don't think they ever came close to Dan levels of awfulness. Alecia even said that they had not been bullies and did not seem to be overly worried about what they were doing during the game or as the show aired. Kyle and Scott were douches and I would not have wanted to be around them but I didn't seem them as anything other then what they were, loud, crass douches. I only really got riles up when they went into sabotage mode. That was simply stupid.

I like the characters that we have seen. I like how most of them are interacting with each other. I think that there are a lot of folks playing the game and that they are not really just sitting back and letting the game come to them. I have been enjoying the more strategic nature of the game.

All of the evacs have held the season back. It is not fun to see people go out because of heat stroke or infections or backed up kidneys. And those moves did effect the game so it sucks. But overall, I have been enjoying the season.

[Special K]

1 hour ago, ratgirlagogo said:

 

I think the conditions they were in meant the doctors didn't want to be inserting a catheter out on the beach, also I suspect he also needed to be given fluids.  And yes, didn't the doctor even say he was concerned about potential kidney damage?

Yes, I agree.  I meant he'd be good to go...to the jury.

[kassa]

I loved the twist in this challenge that everybody got x number of attempts (bags) and therefore speed in racing up the hill would not (necessarily) be the sole determinant in who won.  Many challenges ultimately reward someone who came from behind because they moved slowly and deliberately instead of recklessly - this was just a new variation.  And not unfair, because they all had the same number of bags -- the non-Joes just wasted them in their haste not to lose to each other.  

I don't blame Cydney for not saying anything (if indeed she didn't say anything).  As far as I have heard, talking about food is one of the main past-times in Survivor (when the cameras are off).  There have been other rewards.  Other players have no doubt suffered repercussions from them and discussed them.  Maybe they've even said "it was worth it, though!"  And of course anybody who's watched prior seasons has seen players pay a consequence for gluttony.  (And personally I wonder if it was the satay he was gorging on, and the mistake was just using the meat as a satay conduit.  After a month of rice and plain fish and mangos and coconut, something so savory must just have been heavenly)

Another factor is that Joe was really flying on testosterone and adrenaline post-win. I'm sure he felt like he might throw up later, or have a bad night's sleep, but otherwise would be fine. 

And I don't blame Jeff for the "eulogy."  The helicopter/boat may have had to fuel up.  I'm sure they'd already given Joe a heavy duty laxative/stool softener, as well as antibiotics, at the first consultation.  

[Jersey Guy 87]

3 minutes ago, kassa said:

I loved the twist in this challenge that everybody got x number of attempts (bags) and therefore speed in racing up the hill would not (necessarily) be the sole determinant in who won.  Many challenges ultimately reward someone who came from behind because they moved slowly and deliberately instead of recklessly - this was just a new variation.  And not unfair, because they all had the same number of bags -- the non-Joes just wasted them in their haste not to lose to each other.  

 

The other players didn't waste their bags in their haste, I don't think there was a significant difference in how quickly Aubry/Cydney/Tai tossed their bags versus Joe.  The difference was in how long it took the first three to run through the jungle and retrieve their bags versus Joe.  And that had nothing to do with the first three "rushing" it had everything to do with Joe not being physically able to keep up.  Had Aubry landed her last bag (thrown with the same amount of deliberation as Joe's last bag) Joe would have lost the challenge without even retrieving his third bag of bags.  This wasn't Cydney last week with the balance challenge.

[ProfCrash]

Cydney won immunity because she played the game very slowly. She had a deliberate strategy and was rewarded with a win. I can get behind that. Joe did not have a deliberate strategy. He was not intentionally going slow hoping that it would lead to a win. He went slow because he was 71. I don't have a problem with that but he was rewarded for being older and slower not because of a deliberate strategy. Had someone else filled all five spots with the bags in the first round, then Joe would have lost without getting all of his bags.

I don't have a problem with someone winning because they realized that slow and steady worked better then fast and slightly careless. I do have a problem when someone wins because the rules hampered the other competitors. In the past, competitors have been allowed to gather the rings/balls/pucks whatever they were using as soon as they were out of them. They were rewarded with extra chances.

Joe is significantly older then everyone else out there. He came in at a disadvantage because of that but he never complained about it. He knew that was going to be the case. I respect him for playing. I think he did fine out there. He worked with people when he could and did the best that he could. He made it as far as he did because of alliances that he built and because he was not seen as a threat by folks. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with a game that forces people to pause so that others can catc up.

[KimberStormer]

1 hour ago, Bouffe said:

Yep! Besides, he was the #3 man in the Jason/Scot/Tai alliance, so what else was he suppose to do? Just let them vote him out? 

...go to the final 3 with them and win a million dollars?

6 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I just realized that I AM mad at this season because not only was there no family visit, there was also no auction. What the hell, show.

Family visit has been happening in the finale lately, right?  It might still happen.  I would only like to see the auction return if they get rid of any bidding for advantage.  Maybe they could hide an idol clue in one of the rewards randomly, but I truly hate the everybody-saving-their-money-for-advantage thing to the depths of my soul.  Watching everyone wait around not bidding (and everyone who does bid getting shit on by the fans for being idiots and not wanting it enough etc) and then flipping a coin for it (like when fucking Tony won it in Cagayan--I like Tony more or less, but the man did not need any more advantages in the game) is even more soul-killingly boring than watching Joe shuffle through the jungle while everyone else stands around because some idiot challenge designer decided they only got 3 bags' worth of tries at cornhole.

I don't hate or love this season.  Now that Julia's gone nobody's playing the way that I like to watch, which is just a personal preference.  I like the final 4 okay, but I don't love any of them and I'm not rooting for anyone over the others (which may make the finale more fun/less stressful) just because none of them, as I say, play the way I like.  Really, whether because of the medevacs or not, it sort of reminds me of Nicaragua (with less awful people).  Like that season, the votes make some kind of sense week by week but there is no overall shape to the season, no direction to it.  I felt like Michele captured it this episode when she was talking to Cydney, saying something like "we can't take it vote by vote anymore, we have to think one or two steps ahead, which is exhausting!  But every move we make now has to have a purpose for the end."  And I was thinking, Michele, you should have been doing that all along.  But I think everyone has been playing that way, even Aubry who seems to have the most on the ball.  It might be just editing, but Aubry seems to get blown where the wind goes quite often, and the wind is random and tempestuous.

Anyway I think it should be a fun finale.  It's anyone's game and how they manuever to the end will be interesting.

[piequinn35]

Kinda weird that food was the cause instead of heat, fatigue, etc. anyways, it is better for Joe in the jury than in the finals. ;)

[Sentient Meat]

I kept wondering why I didn't really want Cydney to win... especially right after she immediately read the Tai/Aubry situation, and then it dawned on me.

She's aesthetically pleasing to look at... she has great survival instincts... but she seems cold and emotionally aloof.

Cydney is a cat.  and I am not a cat person.

But even dog people have their limits and after listening to Tai rambling incoherently about Michelle... and watching Aubry flip flop against Tai, I am happy with the cat winning this one.

[ProfCrash]

Joe might have had the same problem without the food. It sounded like the food exasperated an existing problem. The Doctor said men Joe's age have enlarged prostates. God knows we have all seen the commercials for drugs to help men go when there is a problem, for all we know Joe had been taking something like that before Survivor. I am sure the beef did not help in the least bit but I doubt it is the entire explanation.

[Bouffe]

5 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

...go to the final 3 with them and win a million dollars?

Ideally, that would have been great for Tai. But I don't think it would have been feasible. For many reasons, but the biggest being Scot and Jason wanted to get rid of Tai ASAP because they didn't have a chance sitting next to him at F3. Tai knew he was on the bottom of that alliance.

[ljenkins782]

8 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Cydney won immunity because she played the game very slowly. She had a deliberate strategy and was rewarded with a win. I can get behind that. Joe did not have a deliberate strategy. He was not intentionally going slow hoping that it would lead to a win. He went slow because he was 71. I don't have a problem with that but he was rewarded for being older and slower not because of a deliberate strategy. Had someone else filled all five spots with the bags in the first round, then Joe would have lost without getting all of his bags.

I don't have a problem with someone winning because they realized that slow and steady worked better then fast and slightly careless. I do have a problem when someone wins because the rules hampered the other competitors. In the past, competitors have been allowed to gather the rings/balls/pucks whatever they were using as soon as they were out of them. They were rewarded with extra chances.

Joe is significantly older then everyone else out there. He came in at a disadvantage because of that but he never complained about it. He knew that was going to be the case. I respect him for playing. I think he did fine out there. He worked with people when he could and did the best that he could. He made it as far as he did because of alliances that he built and because he was not seen as a threat by folks. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with a game that forces people to pause so that others can catc up.

But it's not forcing people to pause to let others catch up, it's saying that if you want to win, you better place those bags on the first try. I don't see how that's any different than any other challenge. It's not like if someone falls off a balancing pole first, they get to clamber back up there and try again. You had one shot, if you blew it, you blew it. Joe got his on the first try, the others could have done the same but failed. 

Quote

Family visit has been happening in the finale lately, right?  It might still happen.  I would only like to see the auction return if they get rid of any bidding for advantage.  Maybe they could hide an idol clue in one of the rewards randomly, but I truly hate the everybody-saving-their-money-for-advantage thing to the depths of my soul.  Watching everyone wait around not bidding (and everyone who does bid getting shit on by the fans for being idiots and not wanting it enough etc) and then flipping a coin for it (like when fucking Tony won it in Cagayan--I like Tony more or less, but the man did not need any more advantages in the game)

I think they should either take it away quietly and let people hold their money waiting for an advantage that isn't coming (a disappointment akin to spending your whole wad of money on what turns out to be octopus in a jar or something) OR tease them with the idea that there may not be an advantage and let people weigh the risk of waiting. 

As for the family visit, it has been happening later in recent seasons and at inconsistent times so it's hard to say that it's too late now. I can't imagine they'd do away with it altogether, that's been a staple of the show since the beginning.