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S05.E01: B.S.O.D.

FormerMod-a1

By FormerMod-a1
in Person Of Interest [V]

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atua

atua

1 hour ago, Gigi43 said:

Actually, I didn't catch that! What scene was it?

Second scene with the Russian hacker Bela about 25 minutes in.

Bela: Rumour had it, that the underworld's most elite assassin was taken out by the so called "Man in the Suit". But I always figured you were too clever to be done in by some gun for hire.

Root: Just needed a change. Got a new job. Fell in love. 

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Bobbin

Bobbin

To borrow a phrase, "Fascinating." Harold's machine and Samaritan have elements of Dr. Daystrom's M-5 (its creator's personality), Dr. Chandra's HAL 9000 ("Will I dream?"), and Dr. Forbin's Colossus ("benevolence" run amok--and always watching). A topic for a term paper on AI. Or a raucus debate in the beer hall. What will the restored machine be like? Will it be more interested in playing GTA than saving humanity?

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Actionmage

Actionmage

(edited)
Quote

Also, does anyone know what B S O D means?

Blue Screen Of Death. I can't give the particulars, but you'd know it if you experienced it.

Or what stealinghome and Andrew Wiggin said . *g*

 

As to Bobbin's musings on the show, I would be very surprised if there aren't any doctoral theses in Computer Science and Engineering  departments ( as well as Philosophy) with this show as the basis. I might be interested in reading some of those too.

Edited by Actionmage
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shura

shura

2 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

I took it that they were ordinary concerned citizens who had signed up to get text/e-mail alerts, like Amber alerts and other law enforcement whatnot, who Samaritan just co-opted.

Huh. Those concerned citizens really tried to go an extra mile for Samaritan. If I were signed up for alerts like that, I'd probably just notify the police that I saw the perp and let them handle it. I wouldn't be getting my wrench and rushing to apprehend her.

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Miss Dee

Miss Dee

I thought Samaritan used its Sauron-eye view of the Internet, phones, computers, etc. to scan and identify those who (based on past history) would be most likely to intervene if properly motivated. It found in the immediate vicinity a criminal and a wanna-be cop. Then it sent them the motivation - messages, pictures, etc. All created on the spot to serve its purpose of taking Root down. Which was incredibly chilling to watch play out, by the way. Think about an AI sending you false messages, banking on the fact it can predict your past behaviour to get you to a certain place at a certain time or manipulate you into committing specific acts.

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tessaray

tessaray

(edited)

BSOD - Blue Screen of Death, something Windows users get really familiar with.

ETA: Oops - great minds and all that... I am so happy this show is back. Now if the forum would just cooperate with me - why I have an editing box that is an inch wide, I have no clue. (The software doesn't like Firefox, obviously.) Edited by tessaray
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StarBrand

StarBrand

(edited)

Of the many things I liked about the premiere;

1. Anyone who wondered if Finch's attitude towards the machine would change, I think we've gotten our answer. He realizes he really had no need to hold it back, it was never going to become anything close to Samaritan with his guidance.

2. I liked the conversation the Machine and Harold had about death, and how the machine equated dying with losing memories. It know exactly what he was about to do. It didn't get mad, or try and defend itself-it just wanted to know...why...he would do it.

3. Within all the intensity, the show still gave small moments of humour-the issue with the guy trying to buy candy from the machine. And the moment Reese came out with the big drill.

4. It was nerve wracking tfor everyone to try and get the Machine to safety, and then get it back online, only to have things go wrong one after the other; the case gets knocked around, the battery starts to die, the machine tries to prematurely de-compresses which Harold tries to stop, the fire. Even when Root comes along with all of the hardware, even that threatens to go horribly wrong. And we're still not sure what the machine will be like now.

5. Two mentions of Shaw this episode-Reese mentioning how they'll get the machine online, find her, etc, and Root mentioning she's gotten a new job and feel in love. Honestly, the wasn't really any room for any plot involving her this episodes. Apparrently, the Shaw return (which will be ep 4) is very much worth the wait...

Edited by StarBrand
fastiller

fastiller

(edited)
3 hours ago, Bobbin said:

To borrow a phrase, "Fascinating." Harold's machine and Samaritan have elements of Dr. Daystrom's M-5 (its creator's personality), Dr. Chandra's HAL 9000 ("Will I dream?"), and Dr. Forbin's Colossus ("benevolence" run amok--and always watching). A topic for a term paper on AI. Or a raucus debate in the beer hall. What will the restored machine be like? Will it be more interested in playing GTA than saving humanity?

 

2 hours ago, Actionmage said:

As to Bobbin's musings on the show, I would be very surprised if there aren't any doctoral theses in Computer Science and Engineering  departments ( as well as Philosophy) with this show as the basis. I might be interested in reading some of those too.

MIT has already been delving into the the morality of self-driving cars, so I'm sure that there are other, similar papers out there about AI & machine sentience. How to Help Self-Driving Cars Make Ethical Decisions.

I know that's not quite on-point w/r/t POI, but I would be very unsurprised if at least a few of these papers don't point to the show in some way.

Edited by fastiller
I've lost my link-fu, apparently.
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Helena Dax

Helena Dax

So good!

The Machine's a fascinating character and while I understand Harold's doubts, I'm sorry he didn't give her earlier the chance to be what she was meant to be. Nathan was right: someone was going to do it sooner or later. It'd better be Harold. 

The beginning of the episode was very powerful. The moment Root started to talk, I was hooked. 

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DNR

DNR

(edited)

I Squeeeeed! when Root said " needed a change , got a job , fell in love " <3 ( I'm going to assume she means Shaw and not The Machine lol ) 

Exciting first episode , lotsa action - Root shooting ankles out from under the car gave me life ! My girl is BACK!

sad this show is ending and looking forward to the Shoot reunion. Hope to see all these incredible actors on my screen again very soon . BUCKLE UP POI FANS !!! 

Edited by DNR
Added a comment
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DNR

DNR

On May 4, 2016 at 4:47 PM, kwnyc said:

Well, officially dead ACCORDING TO SAMARITAN. If Samaritan can get the FBI to issue a report that says Lionel's gun was the one that fired the fatal shots, then what else can it fake? (...almost everything!) Heck, we could still see Control.

 

On May 4, 2016 at 4:47 PM, kwnyc said:

Well, officially dead ACCORDING TO SAMARITAN. If Samaritan can get the FBI to issue a report that says Lionel's gun was the one that fired the fatal shots, then what else can it fake? (...almost everything!) Heck, we could still see Control.

Elias was a great villain throughout the series . RIP Elias.  Maybe......

 This!^ it was scary to think Samaratin could control an FBI investigation , cause the heart attack death of the IAB officer .  Big brother is watching .....

In the news : China is building a big data platform for  "precrime"  http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/china-is-building-a-big-data-plaform-for-precrime/

HawaiiTVGuy

HawaiiTVGuy

(edited)
On 5/4/2016 at 5:36 PM, Gigi43 said:

No offense to Shaw but it occurred to me only when the credits rolled that she wasn't addressed at all, I was too worried about the Machine. I think I had more of a reaction than Root when Finch said "She." Damn.

 

Fusco has had one hell of a character arch on this show from how he started until now and by the end of this, and though I fear how it could end for him I can't wait to see how this will play out no matter what. 

 

Reese pulling that drill out absurdly cracked me up. Did he find out about Bear and the fire extinguisher (which, GO BEAR!) and had to top him with the Nitrogen?  

 

Using Playstations to store "God"? I love this show.

The product placement wasn't able to save the show?!  No bidding war between Microsoft and Sony?  Or was there really something special about Sony's hardware compared to Microsoft that made it more supercomputerbuildable?

On 5/4/2016 at 6:05 PM, Driad said:

Benteen -- the CBS site usually has episodes available the next day to watch on line.

How useful were the people labels and other small lettering?  With my old fuzzy TV and older fuzzy eyes I couldn't read any of them.

Unfortunately, my TiVo storage is so small that I can't afford HD recording, so I was having issues reading the Samaritan screens.  I may try to do a manual record, but that will mean deleting a fair amount of other programming....  Or I can record in SD, and try to watch it online.

Edited by HawaiiTVGuy
Agent Dark

Agent Dark

1 hour ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

The product placement wasn't able to save the show?!  No bidding war between Microsoft and Sony?  Or was there really something special about Sony's hardware compared to Microsoft that made it more supercomputerbuildable?

The Cell microprocessor that the PS3 uses is naturally good at super-computing applications.  Clusters of PS3s have actually been turned into super-computers in real-life for scientific research purposes and the US Air Force even built a big cluster out of 1700 PS3's for analysing satellite imagery, which is apparently like the 33rd largest super-computer in the world.

The models that Root stole where even the older 'fatboy' PS3's, which had the ability to install a Linux operating sytem (Sony removed that functionality in the later 'slimline' PS3s).

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HawaiiTVGuy

HawaiiTVGuy

On 5/5/2016 at 0:26 PM, DNR said:

 

Elias was a great villain throughout the series . RIP Elias.  Maybe......

 This!^ it was scary to think Samaratin could control an FBI investigation , cause the heart attack death of the IAB officer .  Big brother is watching .....

In the news : China is building a big data platform for  "precrime"  http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/china-is-building-a-big-data-plaform-for-precrime/

It wasn't only a matter of fudging a police report, but in the Samaritan-view, they labeled the FBI agent as "Asset #810" or something. 

tessaray

tessaray

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but I liked how Samaritan is now manually tracking Team Machine as "enemy combatants".  (Though I'm pretty sure Reese's cover identity was intact when he was in the police station?)  And poor Fusco, going from witness to potential threat.  I wonder how many observations Samaritan makes before fatally classifying someone. 

It might be that my television needs adjusting but JC seemed very, very tan.    

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HawaiiTVGuy

HawaiiTVGuy

1 hour ago, Agent Dark said:

The Cell microprocessor that the PS3 uses is naturally good at super-computing applications.  Clusters of PS3s have actually been turned into super-computers in real-life for scientific research purposes and the US Air Force even built a big cluster out of 1700 PS3's for analysing satellite imagery, which is apparently like the 33rd largest super-computer in the world.

The models that Root stole where even the older 'fatboy' PS3's, which had the ability to install a Linux operating sytem (Sony removed that functionality in the later 'slimline' PS3s).

Thanks for the information.  Is there something structurally different than the XBox processors?

Attatude

Attatude

On May 4, 2016 at 9:02 AM, basiltherat said:

Adding my kudos to Finch with his baby machine, wanting to "kill" it every midnight, only for it to ask its daddy:  "How will I learn from my mistakes?"  Indeed. Machine, that is true of all of us.

Didn't need to see Ol' Pruneface quite yet.  Samaritan has death squads that just fire at will with no repurcussions, as well as some sneaky ways to get its "work" done, by weaponizing the commuters in Root's subway through their cellphones.

Bear looked very skinny -- did anyone feed him, now that "Lady Hammer" isn't around?

Also, does anyone know what B S O D means?

You're not a gamer. BSOD means Blue Screen of Death. When a video game console or device dies, the screen is blue.

49 minutes ago, tessaray said:

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but I liked how Samaritan is now manually tracking Team Machine as "enemy combatants".  (Though I'm pretty sure Reese's cover identity was intact when he was in the police station?)  And poor Fusco, going from witness to potential threat.  I wonder how many observations Samaritan makes before fatally classifying someone. 

It might be that my television needs adjusting but JC seemed very, very tan.    

As long as he's not orange...

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wilnil

wilnil

1 hour ago, tessaray said:

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but I liked how Samaritan is now manually tracking Team Machine as "enemy combatants".  (Though I'm pretty sure Reese's cover identity was intact when he was in the police station?) 

OK, someone else saw that: When John entered the precinct, he got reclassified as a non-threat. Which suggests that Samaritan has multiple parallel processes for evaluating people under surveillance -- maybe something like this:

1. Sees John on the street, tries to identify him. Corrupted server kicks in, says "John Riley, police detective, non-threat, disregard."

2. John gets some mayhem going. Threat assessment process kicks in, sees John behaving in an un-Riley way, rejects the corrupted server's identification and reclassifies him as "ENEMY COMBATANT - ELIMINATE."

3. John goes underground for a while, then resurfaces and is picked up on camera heading into the precinct. Samaritan's threat assessor sees the Enemy Combatant,  corrupted server sees John Riley, but now the corrupted server "wins" because he's in Riley's place, acting Riley-like, and re-reclassifies him as the non-threat.

Which means that maybe Shaw would've been safe from being ratted out by Samaritan if, after escaping from the department store shootout with Martine, she'd merely pinned her name badge on, walked back into the store one more time and spritzed someone in the face with perfume.

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stealinghome

stealinghome

(edited)
55 minutes ago, wilnil said:

OK, someone else saw that: When John entered the precinct, he got reclassified as a non-threat. Which suggests that Samaritan has multiple parallel processes for evaluating people under surveillance -- maybe something like this:

1. Sees John on the street, tries to identify him. Corrupted server kicks in, says "John Riley, police detective, non-threat, disregard."

2. John gets some mayhem going. Threat assessment process kicks in, sees John behaving in an un-Riley way, rejects the corrupted server's identification and reclassifies him as "ENEMY COMBATANT - ELIMINATE."

3. John goes underground for a while, then resurfaces and is picked up on camera heading into the precinct. Samaritan's threat assessor sees the Enemy Combatant,  corrupted server sees John Riley, but now the corrupted server "wins" because he's in Riley's place, acting Riley-like, and re-reclassifies him as the non-threat.

Which means that maybe Shaw would've been safe from being ratted out by Samaritan if, after escaping from the department store shootout with Martine, she'd merely pinned her name badge on, walked back into the store one more time and spritzed someone in the face with perfume.

I had a slightly different take on how the cover identities are apparently still intact (and how lazy the writers have been about this is really bugging me). I just figured that part of The Machine's original hacking of Samaritan's servers included some command that essentially said "if Reese and Finch are doing obviously Reese and Finch-y things on camera, shut down and refuse to identify them instead of identifying them as Riley and Whistler and thus blowing their cover." In other words, as a last-ditch move, identify them as "anonymous" instead of Riley and Whistler until the point that they could safely resume their covers. I don't think #2 from the list above can be true because Finch spent all last season harping on how Whistler and Riley couldn't be seen doing anything abnormal or it would blow their covers...that worry doesn't make sense if any abnormal behavior from the cover identities would just be discarded. Then there would be no need for secrecy in anything they did all last season.

In my fanwank, in Shaw's case, what burned her cover was the fact that she was caught at work, while actually playing the part of Sameen Gray, so "anonymous" wouldn't work. And she was seen by Martine, not just Samaritan. At that point, when a human agent can verify "yes, that Sameen Gray is actually Sameen Shaw," there's no way for her cover not to be blown.

But really, no matter what we fanwank, it is pretty ridiculous at this point that the cover identities are still intact. Especially since it means Iris is still around, ick.

Edited by stealinghome
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DNR

DNR

I'm rewatching BSOD and while watching the Root on the subway car scene , I paused and read the Samaritin screens that pop up ( they go by so fast and MrDNR ALWAYS says " what did that say?!" Haha.)  But it was wild how Samaritin was scanning the subway car as it pulled in the station ;according to Samaritin info : the woman who alerted the plumber guy was subscribed to 9 news apps ( so will def see the Root alert ) ; the security guard had made numerous citizen arrests and had law enforcement news alert app ; the plumber who unwisely tried to swing the wrench on Root had been arrested for 4 violent felonies. Samaritin knows EVERYTHING about citizens and they were instant assets  .  Good first episode - looking forward to a great season ! 

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Netfoot

Netfoot

5 hours ago, DNR said:

the woman who alerted the plumber guy was subscribed to 9 news apps ( so will def see the Root alert ) ; the security guard had made numerous citizen arrests and had law enforcement news alert app ; the plumber who unwisely tried to swing the wrench on Root had been arrested for 4 violent felonies. Samaritin knows EVERYTHING about citizens and they were instant assets  .  Good first episode - looking forward to a great season ! 

It's a pity these notifications flash past too fast for most people to assimilate.  They are an interesting detail on the processes going on in the minds of the machines. I always try to read them, but unless I pause, I miss a lot.  

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Netfoot

Netfoot

7 hours ago, Cranberry said:

I don't expect Root to die anytime soon, and I'd be upset if she did.

Ditto and ditto.

She may be a psychopath who should be put down like a rabid dog, for the good of society, but in the mean time, she is amusing, and a fundamental part of the show, as much as the other five.  And she has "seen God", an experience that has at least directed her psychopathic tendencies in a positive direction. 

Besides, she is so indestructible that for anyone to get the better of her now, would so ruin Suspension of Disbelief, it would harm the show in my eyes, retroactively. She can only die in some freakishly accidental way, or by means of self-sacrifice on behalf of the God she has seen and accepted.

  • Love 2
Camera One

Camera One

(edited)

I found this episode a little boring, especially the half of the episode where it was basically everyone being chased and fighting/shooting/etc.  Nevertheless, I'm glad the show is back and I was disappointed to read there are only 13 episodes and it's likely the end.  The flashbacks also seemed to be review of stuff we've seen before, though I'm always happy to see Nathan and Grace again.  Hopefully, now that they've rebooted The Machine, the momentum will build.  I know they are trying to protect Fusco but they should give him enough info to stop him from investigating and putting himself in danger.  I hope they use these last 12 episodes well... I have yet to see a show in its final season actually make full and good use of its screentime and fully follow through on the potential payoff.  Hopefully, this will be the show that bucks the trend.

Edited by Camera One
tessaray

tessaray

I thought  Continuum did a pretty good job of wrapping up, especially since they only got 6 episodes to end an insanely complicated time travel story.  

I didn't care for the flash forward opening, with Root's voice over.  It makes me afraid we will get an ambiguous ending.  Not that they can't be effective - Angel did one of my favorite series finales - but I'm a fan of closure.   

Cranberry

Cranberry

I was actually thinking before the season started that I'd like an Angel ending almost better than anything else. I'm expecting some pretty serious casualties this year, and I'd rather not know for sure that the characters are dead, but be able to imagine they live on. I trust the writers to give these people a fitting ending, though, even if that ending is death. I can't think of a single character death on this show that felt wrong to me (I refuse to believe that Elias is actually dead).

benteen

benteen

I finally got a chance to see this over the weekend and I thought this episode was great.  I think I was a little worried too that I wasn't into it as much because of the long absence but those fears were put aside once the episode got going.  It was exciting and thrilling in the manner of the show.  It's so good to have Person of Interest back.

I've been impressed with how the show has consistently put the heroes back against the wall and it brings them almost to the breaking point with this episode.  I'm very much looking forward to the gang fighting back and fighting back hard.

I was impressed too with how much emotion they got out of the scene with Finch and the Machine.

We got a good look at just how malevolent Samaritan really is.

I'm sorry that Elias is dead.

  • Love 1
DarkRaichu

DarkRaichu

Just got around watching this episode.  Awesome as ever.  I was not aware that this would be the last season :(

On 5/5/2016 at 1:02 PM, DNR said:

I Squeeeeed! when Root said " needed a change , got a job , fell in love " <3 ( I'm going to assume she means Shaw and not The Machine lol ) 

Well, I thought "got a job" part was a nod to the Machine and "fell in love" to Shaw.

 

As for Elias, I thought they showed him dead in season 4 finale.  When Dominic was shot, I thought Elias planned his escape, but then he was shot too, IIRC.

  • Love 1
DNR

DNR

24 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Just got around watching this episode.  Awesome as ever.  I was not aware that this would be the last season :(

Well, I thought "got a job" part was a nod to the Machine and "fell in love" to Shaw.

 

As for Elias, I thought they showed him dead in season 4 finale.  When Dominic was shot, I thought Elias planned his escape, but then he was shot too, IIRC.

That sounds about right , job/machine ?/shaw . I'm just a little excited for their reunion ... Is it Monday yet? 5x04 

Elias was a fave of mine - when he was shot I yelled NNOOOOOoooooooo !!!!

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