The Star Wars Saga

[Spartan Girl]

The "I know" was actually improvised while shooting scene because Harrison maintained that Han wouldn't be that mushy.

[ulkis]

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

The "I know" was actually improvised while shooting scene because Harrison maintained that Han wouldn't be that mushy.

Oh, yeah, I knew that. I was just suprised they wrote the novel before the finished product.

Although I don't think it's a particularly mushy line. Just kinda bland.

Edited December 14, 2016 by ulkis

[Danny Franks]

Well Harrison Ford was famously dismissive of George Lucas' dialogue, so I'm sure he ad-libbed whenever he could get away with it. Which was probably more often in the sequels than he could in Star Wars. In this occasion, his actors' instinct was clearly right. The original line is incredible bland and unmemorable. In fact, the whole exchange is just cumbersome and overly long.  Han Solo was never a guy who wasted time, whether it was in the cantina with Greedo or in his possible last words to the woman he loves. 

I've come across tie-in novels before that have featured scenes that weren't in the final movie, or lines that were changed or cut. I would guess it's probably standard practice to give them the original screenplay to use for their adaptation. One I always remember is The Goonies. As a kid, I always thought the kids were making up the story about the giant octopus, when they were telling their parents everything that had happened. Because it doesn't happen in the movie. But years later I found the novelisation at a car boot sale, and there it is, the giant octopus scene. Obviously cut from the movie after the novelisation was written. I know that the scene was filmed, because it's popped up as a DVD extra with the movie.

[absnow54]

Lucas didn't write The Empire Strikes Back though. I think he developed the story for it, but the dialogue primarily came from Lawrence Kasdan who wrote the scripts for Raiders of the Lost Ark and The Force Awakens. I read the Making of Empire book ages ago, and what I remember from it was that Harrison and Irivin Kirshnir had a pretty good collaborative rapport going on, and I think Kirshnir trusted his actors' instincts and allowed them to improve and paraphrase dialogue unlike Lucas who was very to the page (hence the awkward cadence of the dialogue through the prequels.)

[VCRTracking]

Luckily someone was tape recording the set the day they shot the scene of Han being frozen. The Making of Empire Strikes Back book by JW Rinzler has pages of transcript of it. It wasn't just ad-libbed just before filming. Ford and Kershner were discussing it all day. Excerpts:

Quote

Kershner: [to Harrison Ford] Good morning.
Harrison Ford: How are you?
Kershner: I tried to call you yesterday. I wanted to see you, I wanted to talk with you about the scene and I couldn’t get you. I tried very hard late in the afternoon and early in the evening. I wanted to talk to you about the scene because I’ve been working on it and there are a lot of things that I’ve sort of discovered about it, [laughs] in looking at it. (“Larry Kasdan had written some very good scenes, but there was still the interpretation,” Kershner says. “The interpretation is what kept me awake nights.”)

Quote

 

Kershner: Let me tell you what the rationale is. Why do you think that Leia and Chewie were brought in here?
Ford: In there?
Kershner: Yeah. I know why they were brought to the Carbon Freezing Chamber. It came to me. They’re brought in so that you would not make any problems. Because if you tried to make a break, if you tried to jump them, if you try to do anything, if you try not to go into that pit, they’ll say, “Okay, we’re going to kill them.”

Ford: Right, okay. I mean, Chewie tries to—
Kershner: And you stop him, so he wouldn’t get himself killed.
Ford: For a character that was built around George’s line, “Give me a good fight any day over all this hiding and freezing …”
Kershner: Right.
Ford: Well, I mean he had this line in the first script. That is the definition of Han’s character. Otherwise, I’d decide to join Chewbacca in the fight, push as many of them as I could over the edge, ’cause we’re all dead anyway.
Kershner: Okay, so we need a scene—
Ford: So it could be a few words between me and Billy Dee.
Kershner: You can see it in his face; you realize that this is not the way he intended this thing to work, that this thing got out of hand. And as you’re stepping into that place and you see him standing there, he looks miserable. He looked miserable in the jail, too.
Ford: Billy is not in this scene.
Kershner: Yes he is. He’s standing right there.
Ford: That’s what I’m saying. He doesn’t say anything. He doesn’t contribute anything. What if, when I come down and see the others, I look at him and say, “What’s going on?” You know, I assume it’s something that he is still in charge of.

 

Quote

 

Ford: I think she ought to just say, “I love you,” as I’m passing by her.
Kershner: “I love you.” “Just remember that, because I’ll be back.”
Ford: No, I—
Kershner: Yeah, I’m just saying how it would go—
Ford: If she said, “I love you,” I could say very nicely, “Yeah, I know. Don’t worry, I’ll be back.”

Ford: [laughs] But if she says, “I love you,” and I say, “I know,” it’s beautiful and it’s acceptable and it’s funny.
Kershner: [laughs] Right. Okay. Now, I only have one big problem here.
Ford: But I also have to say to her, “Don’t worry about this,” in some way.
Kershner: No, you can’t. You can’t because you don’t know whether this is the end or not.
Ford: The point is: I’m not worried about myself anymore; I’m worried about her.

 

Carrie Fisher BTW was not happy later that they changed the dialogue without including her:
 

Quote

 

Kershner: That’s the first you really know of the danger. You say, “No!” I think that there has to be a reaction on your part and then Chewie goes crazy. So I’ve reversed the whole thing.
Fisher: I resent that I love Han and he knows …
Kershner: We’ve got to find a way of doing it so that we don’t say cliché things.
Fisher: Harrison was here while you were making changes and I always feel like it’s behind my back, that you’re rehearsing.
Kershner: No, no, no. This we haven’t rehearsed yet. This we’re going to rehearse.
Fisher: Yeah, but I don’t know that, I—

Kershner: See, I couldn’t tell you before.
Fisher: I’m just talking about the other thing that you guys started to rewrite and I wasn’t there. I always I feel like, “It’s the bimbo again.” They can’t do anything with me, I guess.
Kershner: No, it’s not the bimbo.

Fisher: [irate tone] I would just like to be there. I don’t even need to say anything …
Kershner: You weren’t here, you weren’t here!
Fisher: You’ve got to know I’m here in the studio.
Kershner: Okay, alright, okay.
Fisher: And then I yelled at Harrison.
Kershner: Yeah, don’t yell at him, yell at me.
Fisher: I did and now Harrison’s angry at me.
Kershner: No, he’s not angry at you.
Fisher: Well, he thinks I’m angry at him for no reason and I’m not angry …
Kershner: See, I’ve worked on it for two days now and I have not been able to come to any conclusion. The scene is totally illogical unless we obfuscate.
Fisher: Alright, but there’s no reason for me to be mad at him and I got mad at him. Because he came to me with the changes and I thought, Wait!

 

This part makes me laugh in light of recent revelations in Carrie's new book:

Quote

Kershner: He(Harrison) was eager because he was worried about the scene.
Fisher: And I was stupid. But I …
Kershner: And I’ve been very worried about it, I’ve been so worried about this scene. I worked on it yesterday afternoon until I had such a headache. You know, I worked on it all day Saturday and Sunday. I came to no good conclusions because I realized the illogicality.
Fisher: There’s certain information I should at least have for myself, where I can at least come to the conclusion for myself while I’m watching you guys do a scene that may not center around me.
Kershner: Okay, okay, I’ll take care of that. Do you want me to do it now or later?
Fisher: It’s always been a precarious relationship anyway.
Kershner: Why?
Fisher: Because I do shit and because he was bored with everything. “When you’re older, we’ll all tell you about it.”

And she did ;-)!

Edited December 14, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Trini]

7 hours ago, ulkis said:

Oh, yeah, I knew that. I was just suprised they wrote the novel.before the finished product.

 

Probably has to with publishing deadlines and making sure the book is in stores the same time as the film. And what Danny Franks said, the publishers have to go from the screenplay - not the finished film.

 

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I've come across tie-in novels before that have featured scenes that weren't in the final movie, or lines that were changed or cut. I would guess it's probably standard practice to give them the original screenplay to use for their adaptation. One I always remember is The Goonies. As a kid, I always thought the kids were making up the story about the giant octopus, when they were telling their parents everything that had happened. Because it doesn't happen in the movie. But years later I found the novelisation at a car boot sale, and there it is, the giant octopus scene. Obviously cut from the movie after the novelisation was written. I know that the scene was filmed, because it's popped up as a DVD extra with the movie.

I've had a similar experience with the novelization of Disney's Beauty & the Beast; apparently the Beast's 'death' scene was much more dramatic.

[ulkis]

8 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Well Harrison Ford was famously dismissive of George Lucas' dialogue, so I'm sure he ad-libbed whenever he could get away with it. Which was probably more often in the sequels than he could in Star Wars. In this occasion, his actors' instinct was clearly right. The original line is incredible bland and unmemorable. In fact, the whole exchange is just cumbersome and overly long.  Han Solo was never a guy who wasted time, whether it was in the cantina with Greedo or in his possible last words to the woman he loves. 

Yeah, Kershner talked about it in the commentary on the ESB DVD how they kept doing that scene over and over again until HF finally came up with "I know".

There was actually extra scenes in the book that I think would have been fine for the film, but I guess they were cut or made up for the novel.

Edited December 14, 2016 by ulkis

[Perfect Xero]

Usually the writer for the novelization is working from the original script and notes from before the filming started, so the novelization can be ready to sell around the same time the film comes out.

The Return of the Jedi novelization (and shooting script) includes a line that identifies Owen Lars as Obi Wan's brother when Force Ghost Ben is explaining the whole Vader is Anakin situation to Luke. It didn't make it into the movie and Lucas, of course, changed his mind when making the prequels and made Owen Anakin's step-brother instead.

[ulkis]

You'd think they'd change the major difference in the novel in later editions, but I guess maybe there's copyright issues or something.

[Morrigan2575]

I was watching the Angry Joe Spoiler review of Rogue One and, they got in an off topic discussion of Vader vs Kylo Ren.  Anyway it got me thinking since everyone seems to compare Kylo Ren to Vader in the Originally trilogy but seem to ignore Anakin in the prequels. Can't say I blame them, I try to pretend the prequels don't exist.

My thoughts on Kylo Ren in TFA is that he's the in between, of Anakin and Vader. Vader is 20 years of being on the Dark Side but, Anakin (even in Sith) is still a whiny little punk.  I think (hope) they're trying to show the actual decent to the dark side. So in Episode 8 we'll get fully evil fully badass Kylo Ren. My other hope (and I don't think I'll get this one) is that Ren remains evil, I don't want a redemption sorry for him in Episode 9

Edited December 17, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Browncoat]

I disagree that the shoehorned-in CGI scenes of Han and Jabba in Mos Eisley in A New Hope were necessary.  To me, it actually detracted from when we meet Jabba in ROTJ -- I won't soon forget the impression that giant, drooling slug-puppet made on me.  He was so much more intimidating as the puppet than as the CGI.  Even now, I think the puppet version is superior.  Perhaps if the CGI were better (and if Han actually looked in the proper direction when speaking with CGI-Jabba), I wouldn't mind so much, although there was enough other conversation/exposition to determine that Han owed Jabba a lot of money.  A face-to-face between the two is just overkill.

[Matt K]

3 hours ago, Browncoat said:

I disagree that the shoehorned-in CGI scenes of Han and Jabba in Mos Eisley in A New Hope were necessary.  To me, it actually detracted from when we meet Jabba in ROTJ -- I won't soon forget the impression that giant, drooling slug-puppet made on me.  He was so much more intimidating as the puppet than as the CGI.  Even now, I think the puppet version is superior.  Perhaps if the CGI were better (and if Han actually looked in the proper direction when speaking with CGI-Jabba), I wouldn't mind so much, although there was enough other conversation/exposition to determine that Han owed Jabba a lot of money.  A face-to-face between the two is just overkill.

I agree, I've watched Star Wars twice.  Once was when they released the VHS box set (which just had cleaned up graphics and nothing else). The second time was last year with the new dvd's (which had all the stuff added).  Honestly I feel Lucas ruined the movies with all the additions.  The Jabba scene was completely unnecessary as was the new musical number in the cantina, etc.  You can easily tell what new stuff was added and it clashes with the aesthetics of the original movie.  Plus it adds absolutely nothing to the movie except run time (as in it screws with the pace of the movie as well).  I could go on but the new stuff was really distracting from the movie.

[Dandesun]

The 'enhancements' I felt only worked if they didn't detract from the story. Adding some visual enhancement to Cloud City was a good move. That gorgeous pan shot of the X-wings on the way to the Death Star was also a nice addition. Adding creatures here and there were fine. Adding weird 'funny' scenes or whatever that weren't necessary, detracted. And the Han - Jabba scene was way too repetitive. It felt like exposition of something we had already seen moments before.

Also, I kind of like how they dressed up the explosions of Alderaan and Death Stars I & II.

[benteen]

Yeah, the original explosion of Alderaan was probably the weakest special effect in the original moving.  Add that ring of destruction definitely made it look better.  Opening up Cloud City was another good move and I'd love to see Cloud City in a future Star Wars movie where they could open it up even further.

[Danny Franks]

So after watching Rogue One, I feel a need to watch Rebels. I only watched the first couple of episodes, and got annoyed because it was all about Jedi again.

But Rogue One proved that you can make a damned good Star Wars movie without a single Jedi (not counting Chirrut, who had some Jedi-like skills), so I feel more open to the show, and I there are some ties to this movie.

[VCRTracking]

Yes two of the characters are Jedi and there are episodes that deal with the Jedi and the Force but the good thing the show are there other great characters and types of stories. There's my favorite character Hera Syndulla(who got a mention in Rogue One) who's a fantastic pilot and the daughter of a great Rebel leader on her home planet Ryloth. There's Sabine who's a Mandalorian, who's both proud and rebelling against her warrior heritage. Zev who's the one of the few remaining of his race that were wiped out by the Empire.

 

[Captain Carrot]

So....you think that 2016 is done with us. Then you find out that Carrie Fisher had a massive heart attack while flying from London to LA, and was rushed to a hospital. I just hope she pulls through.

[SnoGirl]

30 minutes ago, Captain Carrot said:

So....you think that 2016 is done with us. Then you find out that Carrie Fisher had a massive heart attack while flying from London to LA, and was rushed to a hospital. I just hope she pulls through.

I don't think its looking good, I've read reports that they gave her CPR from anywhere of 10-15 minutes before getting her off the plane.

I hope she pulls through too. My geeky heart is breaking.

[Danny Franks]

Shit. This year just stinks, from top to bottom. From reports, it sounds very bad. With the life she's led, it's not the biggest surprise ever, but it's still horrible news. 

[benteen]

Sad news.  I hope for all the best for Carrie and hope that she pulls through.

[MrsR]

Mark Hamill's twitter said the same thing. 2016 sucks. Carrie!

Now the ending of Rogue One has even more impact.

[BooBear]

They are now reporting she is in stable condition so reports of her illness likely were greatly exaggerated.

[MrsR]

Unfortunately, they also said the same thing about Joan Rivers.

 

But we can ... hope.  It would be a fitting end to this horrible year.

[starri]

Just keep saying it:  Carrie Fisher is one with the Force and the Force is with her.

[Macbeth]

5 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

So....you think that 2016 is done with us. Then you find out that Carrie Fisher had a massive heart attack while flying from London to LA, and was rushed to a hospital. I just hope she pulls through.

I just found out - I wish her all the best.  You can always count on Carrie for a chuckle.  We have about 193 hours and 6 minutes to get the f out of dodge and leave the suckitude that was the year 2016.

[VCRTracking]

Carrie's already made it through so much, I have to believe she'll survive this.

[Perfect Xero]

Goddamn 2016 is like one of those Game of Thrones winters that somehow lasts for 10 years.

[CofCinci]

Drugs are bad.

If she was unresponsive for that long, even with CPR, It's bad. 

[Spartan Girl]

Hoping for the best. I love Carrie and I loved her latest book. 

I feel awful for asking, but they finished shooting Episode VIII, right? 

[Morrigan2575]

54 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Hoping for the best. I love Carrie and I loved her latest book. 

I feel awful for asking, but they finished shooting Episode VIII, right? 

I'm pretty sure they wrapped, I know Mark Hamill wrapped a few weeks back

2 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Drugs are bad.

If she was unresponsive for that long, even with CPR, It's bad. 

My hope is that the initial reports are exaggerated or emotional/adrenaline fueled. From what I can tell most of that stuff came from Social Media and other passengers talking to TMZ.  However, yes if it's true that they performed CPR for 10-15 minutes, it's not good ?

[starri]

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm pretty sure they wrapped, I know Mark Hamill wrapped a few weeks back

I'm only going to say that if she doesn't make it, the only way this could be worse is if we never see Luke and Leia reunited.

[Morrigan2575]

19 minutes ago, starri said:

I'm only going to say that if she doesn't make it, the only way this could be worse is if we never see Luke and Leia reunited.

Aww, no ?

[starri]

Happy Life Day with that last one.

[Danny Franks]

It's definitely in bad taste, but I don't blame anyone who had a thought of 'well, what about Star Wars...?' when they heard the news, because I thought it myself. Hopefully she's able to recover, but even so, they wouldn't be able to do any Episode VIII reshoots for a long time. I can imagine that a heart attack like this would take a long while to fully recover from.

It's a morbid thought, but I wonder if movie studios have plans of any kind for what they might do if they do lose a cast member. Especially with older actors, or those who aren't in great health. I suppose someone must be thinking about it somewhere, but it's not like they can openly say anything. Leia is an integral part of the Star Wars universe, and I don't know how they would work around that if Carrie Fisher wasn't with us, or wasn't well enough to work.

[DrSpaceman73]

If they were not thinking of it before then they likely are now with Leia. 

Just saw Rogue One yesterday and was thoroughly impressed with the young Leia stand up. Looked just like her

Older Leia sub for an actual extended part of the movie, though, and with more than one line, not happening. 

[CofCinci]

Update: https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-carrie-fisher-cardiac-20161223-story,amp.html?client=safari

still in ICU. 

[Morrigan2575]

Hoping Santa brings good news tomorrow

[Macbeth]

Carrie has had such a difficult life with her bipolar illness.  Using needing drugs to self medicate then needing electro-shock therapy....  I wish her all the best. I love her books, her humor. and her candor.  So rare in a celebrity.  

[VCRTracking]

I'm in shock and now I'm listening to John Williams'  Princess Leia's theme in tears.

RIP Carrie.

Edited December 27, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Ronin Jackson]

Sad news. RIP. 

This will make rewatching that final shot of Rogue One a bit tougher.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Ronin Jackson

[Lugal]

Damn.  RIP Carrie.

Is 2016 over yet?

[SimoneS]

Damn. Princess Leia will be loved and missed forever. 

Rest in peace, Carrie.

Edited December 27, 2016 by SimoneS

[aradia22]

Quote

Damn.  RIP Carrie.

Is 2016 over yet?

Seriously. I know years are artificial constructs and not sentient beings but 2016 is really trying to cram in as much horrible as possible.

[Morrigan2575]

Fuck You 2016!

RIP Carrie Fisher. Goodbye Princess ???

[Gulftastic]

Goodbye to the only true Princess of my childhood. 

[Perfect Xero]

"Oh, the General? To me, she is royalty."

[benteen]

RIP, Carrie.  This one hurt.

Edited December 27, 2016 by benteen

[stealinghome]

RIP, Carrie Fisher. My thoughts are with her family. :(

[VCRTracking]

[questionfear]

On 12/17/2016 at 0:00 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

My other hope (and I don't think I'll get this one) is that Ren remains evil, I don't want a redemption sorry for him in Episode 9

I think you might get your wish, considering that I just read that Disney actually ASKED for the darker ending to Rogue One...the writers originally thought Disney wouldn't let them, and wrote in a happier ending, but Disney came back and said "Uh, that makes no sense...just stick the landing here." So maybe we really will get full-on unredeemably evil Ren.

Also, goddamn I am sad about Carrie Fisher. I can't even bring myself to clear the news notifications of it from my phone.