S06.E16: Last Day On Earth

[peach]

I don't believe this had anything to do with CDB attacking their base. We already knew they were in the area scouting from their run in with Darryl, Sasha, and Abe. The Saviors have just finally found Alexandria and this is the first meeting all communities they strongarm get.

Well, the first guy said there was more than one way to get where they were going,and I assumed they meant Hilltop.  I mean, there are only so many places to go.  But at the end, when they were all captive together, the same guy said "this" was where they were going, for the inevitable showdown. So I guess they control every single road all the time now?  I don't know, it really seems kind of OTT. 

 

And the show did not bother to fill in the details with Hilltop's situation and how it ties in, regardless.  This show is terrible about things like that. They're making Negan into God, practically, so surely he knows about their alliance with Hilltop.  Aren't they still supposed to give them tribute?  Doesn't ominpresent, omniscient Negan know that he really didn't get Gregory's head?  Etc.  It's all sloppy. 

[Dodginblue]

 

 I was expecting the Savior to 'make it count' for Carol by raping her, causing her to have flashbacks to Ed and being forced to kill him.  As ugly as it is, I would have found that more believable than 90% of what we've seen with the Saviors.   So did Morgan finally kill because he wants to fix Carol or is this the first time someone's been within seconds of being killed (as opposed to just maybe being killed by the deranged animals running loose in Alexandria)?

 

I don't think he was in any condition to be raping anyone, being shot himself and talking about how it was getting harder to breathe.

 

I also think that Morgan's philosophy isn't that he won't ever kill anyone so much as it's give them a chance to make a different choice from whatever it is they're doing, which he did do that before shooting the guy.  

[mirrorrim]

I knew it would be 75 minutes of boredom for 15 mins of action at the end, because they do it all the frickin time. I was REALLY hoping they wouldn't repeat themselves and end on a tired "who died?" cliffhanger. It would have been SO much more fun talking 'round the watercoolor about how Rick & Co are gonna get out of this. I'm over the "who died?" discussion. I've already done this 2 times with Glenn and once with Darryl. It's OLD.

In fact, I'm so sick of this that I looked up the comic book spoiler. I HATE spoilers but that's how terrible this ending was. Now I can move on to discussing the story (at least with my husband and rest of my family, who all thought this ending was too tiresome). Yeah, they could have changed things up for the show, but I doubt it.

Edited April 4, 2016 by mirrorrim

[Red Fields]

What a bunch of yakkers all the villains are..

And that all say pretty much the same damn thing.

[catcory]

I think no matter who is killed it will have an impact on Rick, he will feel so guilty that all of this was his fault.

[walnutqueen]

And I'm guessing Morgan is Donatello from the Ninja Turtles?  You know, he wields a staff and is basically useless?  Maybe he should also dye his hair blue and blow bubbles at the bad guys?  Or should Eugene do that?  Let the fanart of Eugene dressed as Sailor Mercury begin!

 

I'm sorta proud to say I don't get the references, since I know nothing of these Ninja Turtles, nor any other comics after 1965.   Now, get off my lawn. 

[ParadoxLost]

I knew it would be 75 minutes of boredom for 15 mins of action at the end,

 

The 15 minutes of action at the end was pretty terrible.  I spent a lot of time examining Neegan's leather jacket.  It bothered me, not sure why, and he was yammering on a lot.  Then they did a retread of Nicotero's stupid viewer is the zombie and CDB is killing you scene but instead viewer got hit by Lucille.

[riverheightsnancy]

Having been around Northern Virginia, Negan's troops are not that much of a stretch. We alreday know the following:

1) They have been scouting Alexandria. They know where it is. Heck, Jesus scouted them and told them how many people were there. Perhaps there is only one central road that goes past the turnoff for Alexandria. 

2) Negan's groups use walkies and lookouts. They use codes, they have vehicles, weapons, and gas. One can get around faster, when you know the roads and have access. 

3) Negan could have said, at some point someone will leave AZ, our lookouts will call on the walkies and our pre-setup groups (on every road past a certain perimeter) will be ready and waiting. When they leave, we will block them and send them in this direction.  I think Negan stated that a lot of effort went into this little capture. 

[Sighed I]

On a more positive note, I did enjoy the B story with Carol and Morgan. It was good to see her getting through to him. Finally he got it. You don't have to like killing, it's okay to avoid it when you can, but in this world, sometimes it is necessary.

 

Plus I liked them meeting up with people who seem, at least at this point, to still have hold of their humanity. That cliffhanger was well done.

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

which is fitting I suppose, since Kirkman is apparently into torture porn

 

It's always the slightly neutered looking doofuses with that kind of stuff rattling around their heads, no? I've never read the comics, but from what I've seen and heard of them, no surprise there.

 

Quote

Instead we'll see people from the group one or two at a time (starting with Rick and Carl, since it was clear it wasn't them), in a cell or back at Alexandria, talking about how they can't believe how evil Negan and how he could just kill 'someone' like that.  It'll be thick with cagey, unrevealing dialogue until we get to the end and see everyone but the victim.

 

Sadly, I'm sure you're 100% right. That's how predictable and downright dreary this show has become. To me, if someone were being killed, I would have thought the smart choice would be Rick, since he's the leader. Kill the leader and the others may be more amenable to the New Order. I have a feeling it was Eugene, but really, by the time we find out I doubt I'll care much. That's too bad, because seeing him sit in the RV when everyone left actually gave me feels and it was only moment in the show that that happened.

 

I think I nodded off for a few minutes watching Morgan walk and walk and then ride and ride.

 

Plus I liked them meeting up with people who seem, at least at this point, to still have hold of their humanity.

 

Wow. I can't believe I already forgot about the Medieval Knights happening along. I recognized the spear as the same kind Rick picked up at the farm where he and Morgan had their endless tete-a-tete last time.

Edited April 4, 2016 by AngelaHunter

[CletusMusashi]

Negan should've played, duck, duck, dead.

Actually, it was more like this, but longer...

[oakville]

 Actually, it did make sense to have those people in RV. If they were there in case there was trouble. Rick simply did not anticipate that Negan had so many people and that they would trap them.

 

Btw, how would they get the doctor to come to Alexandria? Call him on their cell? Homing pigeon? By the time the doctor got to Alexandria, Maggie and her baby might have been dead. Taking her there was the only realistic choice.

 

Why not send 1 or 2 people to get the doctor in a car? Didn't they have walkie talkies last year? The RV was easy to spot. They should have never let Denise leave Alexandria to go on a run. CDB is always running away from Alexandria with disastrous results.

[AngelaHunter]

I knew it would be 75 minutes of boredom for 15 mins of action at the end, because they do it all the frickin time.

 

It was more like 45 minutes of boredom, 15 minutes of action and 30 minutes of commercials.

[peach]

Why not send 1 or 2 people to get the doctor in a car? Didn't they have walkie talkies last year? The RV was easy to spot. They should have never let Denise leave Alexandria to go on a run. CDB is always running away from Alexandria with disastrous results.

 

Agreed.  They know there are more Saviors out there, and yet stealth never seems to enter their minds.  Somehow they're SEAL Team 6 in some episodes, and then the Keystone Kops in others.  It's frigging mind numbing.

[Dodginblue]

It's always the slightly neutered looking doofuses with that kind of stuff rattling around their heads, no? I've never read the comics, but from what I've seen and heard of them, no surprise there.

 

Sadly, I'm sure you're 100% right. That's how predictable and downright dreary this show has become. To me, if someone were being killed, I would have thought the smart choice would be Rick, since he's the leader. Kill the leader and the others may be more amenable to the New Order. I have a feeling it was Eugene, but really, by the time we find out I doubt I'll care much. That's too bad, because seeing him sit in the RV when everyone left actually gave me feels and it was only moment in the show that that happened.

 

I think I nodded off for a few minutes watching Morgan walk and walk and then ride and ride.

 

Wow. I can't believe I already forgot about the Medieval Knights happening along. I recognized the spear as the same kind Rick picked up at the farm where he and Morgan had their endless tete-a-tete last time.

 

I also think that one of those guys is probably the man that was running, who said he was just looking for his horse, that Morgan stopped Rick from shooting in last week's episode.  And if they are good guys and are going to help Carol and Morgan then it will be the first real example that Morgan's philosophy might have some merit.

[Artsda]

When I sent my people to kill your people for killing my people, you killed more of my people. I loved that line. Negan was awesome.

 

Morgan shot someone!

 

This whole plan of leaving the RV to carry Maggie was dumb. The whole plan of half a dozen of them in an RV to take Maggie to a doctor was dumb. This is why they should have protected the doctor they had and not allow her to go on runs for supplies. 

 

Still think killing all the Saviors was a great plan Maggie & Rick? 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Artsda

[Dodginblue]

I think no matter who is killed it will have an impact on Rick, he will feel so guilty that all of this was his fault.

 

I agree that losing a member of the group will matter to Rick, in one way or the other, but not that he will or should feel guilty.  I don't see how it's all his fault.  He didn't tell Daryl, Michonne, Glenn and Rosita to leave ASZ so he's not responsible for them being out there and everyone else in the RV volunteered to go, to try and help Maggie.   

[Maverick]

I don't think he was in any condition to be raping anyone, being shot himself and talking about how it was getting harder to breathe.

 

 He was talking about how each breathe was getting harder for Carol to take.

 

 

Why not send 1 or 2 people to get the doctor in a car? Didn't they have walkie talkies last year? The RV was easy to spot. They should have never let Denise leave Alexandria to go on a run. CDB is always running away from Alexandria with disastrous results.

 

 The doctor had equipment at Hilltop, including the ultrasound.  Even is the Doc agreed to go and Hilltop agreed to let the equipment leave (unlikely) that would have been as difficult and risky than moving Maggie, if not moreso.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

#firegimple is trending on Twitter.

[AnnaMayWong]

I like several of them Rickers, BUT I LUV--Carl*, Rick, and Michonne.

[rab01]

leaving aside the fucking bullshit cliffhanger for a moment ... I'd like to mention a nice character beat -- Abraham sitting up straighter when Negan got to him. It wasn't bravado - he was trying to save Sasha by sacrificing himself.

 

As for the saviors blocking the RV -- it wasn't that they knew when the R would leave Alexandria, it's that they knew to block all the roads to Hilltop.  The outpost lost was one that dealt with Hilltop so the saviors knew that it had something to do with them. The point of the cat-and-mouse stop was a job interview/recruitment so Negan isn't automatically looking to kill the strongest ... 

[SimoneS]

#firegimple is trending on Twitter.

 

These people have no life. I hope cheapo AMC gives him a raise. He is a good showrunner and I love how he writes for the women characters.

[CletusMusashi]

With all the effort they put into playing road games with Rick, wouldn't it have been easier to just ride up to Alexandria with two hundred guys and take the place over? I mean, there's usually about five people there, tops. Who's working the guard tower? Judith?

Edited April 4, 2016 by CletusMusashi

[AngelaHunter]

Also, can I just say how hot he is with his bow legged walk and fall jacket?

 

Since I have nothing else good to say about this ep, I'll take the shallow route and say, "Yessir!" SSsssmokin'!

[econ07]

This will be another example of a group in complete control, and then killed off by CDB.  First it was the governor ... then Aaron and his superb scouting ... then jesus and his ninja escaping .... all totally competent initially and then part of a huge group of fumbling boobs later on.  With the Saviors putting together this elaborate of a plot, seems like they should not be able to be decimated ... ever.

[Racj82]

Why don't the folks at CDB just pack up and leave ... Negan's reach can only go so far.

Because, Negan isn't going to let them leave. It's doesn't matter how far his reach is out of the state if you can't even get out of the town your in without a group of Saviors on your back.

 

I also want to disagree with the poster that said the average person (no forum type person) wont be pissed off by this cliffhanger. There is no such thing as a average person anymore. Everyone is a critic. People review, people podcast, people tweet, people go to forums, people comment on reviews, etc. The reception you see here wont be far off from what the average person is feeling. Not to say that viewership will be affected or whatnot. It wont. But, these types of cliffhangers have been pissing people off for ages. We aren't in the age of Who Shot JR? There weren't many options out there. Now, there is a great show or a great example of how to end a season or do a cliffhanger right around the corner all the time.

 

This was the TV equivalent of blue balls.

[Enero]

I actually liked how almost defiant Carl was facing down Negan. I mean, he was the only one (maybe besides Abe) who wasn't pissing his pants...

I need to watch again but I think Michonne looked pretty fierce too. If I'm not mistaken she stared Negan down as he walked by her.

Poor Rick. He looked completely shell shocked. Great acting by AL. Whoever dies, the guilt is going wreck him. Sigh.

Why don't the folks at CDB just pack up and leave ... Negan's reach can only go so far.

And go where? Even if they could get passed Negan and his minions, there'd just be miles and miles of walkers, limited supplies and more crazy/violent minions ready to take them out. They were lucky to come across a community like Alexandria where they could settle and have some sense of normalcy. The best CBD can do now is try and hang on to Alexandria is by regrouping, if that's at all possible, then taking Negan down.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Enero

[SimoneS]

I think no matter who is killed it will have an impact on Rick, he will feel so guilty that all of this was his fault.

 

I have no doubt that Rick will feel guilty, but this is not his fault. Some posters keep saying if only he did this or did that, but the fact is that this confrontation with Negan was unavoidable, deal with the Hilltop or no deal, killing his men or holding off, staying in Alexandria or not. Negan is a psychopath who wants to live off other people's labor. People seem to forget it was Negan's men who first confronted Daryl, Abraham, and Sasha on that road when they were minding their own business. There was no avoiding this day. Negan and his people were always going to kill one of Rick's people and attempt to enslave them. The only way to have avoided Negan was to not go to Washington which Rick did because it was what Michonne wanted. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by SimoneS

[Dodginblue]

With all the effort they put into playing road games with Rick, wouldn't it have been easier to just ride up to Alevandria with two hundred guys and take the place over? I mean, there's usually about five people there, tops. Who's working the guard tower? Judith?

Too funny.  

 

I don't think they'd have to even work that hard to take it over right now, Spencer was already thinking deal, based on what he said to Rick, so he'd probably invite them in willingly.

[TVFan17]

leaving aside the fucking bullshit cliffhanger for a moment ... I'd like to mention a nice character beat -- Abraham sitting up straighter when Negan got to him. It wasn't bravado - he was trying to save Sasha by sacrificing himself.

 

As for the saviors blocking the RV -- it wasn't that they knew when the R would leave Alexandria, it's that they knew to block all the roads to Hilltop.  The outpost lost was one that dealt with Hilltop so the saviors knew that it had something to do with them. The point of the cat-and-mouse stop was a job interview/recruitment so Negan isn't automatically looking to kill the strongest ... 

 

That little Abraham moment got Negan to contemplate and reconsider his own 'stache and beard game!  He saw what Abraham's facial hair was doing and he decided he needed to shave.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Sherry67

[catrox14]

 

When I sent my people to kill your people for killing my people, you killed more of my people. I loved that line. Negan was awesome.

 

I legit laughed this. Because it's just the kind of twisted logic he would have.  I loved the line reading just as much.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I'm not going to sit around for the next however many months chewing off my fingernails about it - I won't give you that satisfaction, Gimple/Kirkman, et al - but I think we can eliminate some people off the Lucille'd list;

 

1  Rick - because obviously

2  Carl - again, because obviously [& the threat of cutting out his eye to feed someone]

3  Daryl - I didn't see any hair curtains getting in the viewpoint's way as Negan whacked away at whoever's head

4  any of the women - I just don't see any of them taking the beating without making any sounds

 

So that narrows it down to any of Glenn, Abe, Eugene and Aaron. 

 

I am leaning towards Abe, even if it seems obvious.  Did sit (ok, kneel) up to challenge Negan and I see him taking a beating (even to death) in a stoic-as-possible way.

Edited April 4, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[ParadoxLost]

Wow. I can't believe I already forgot about the Medieval Knights happening along. I recognized the spear as the same kind Rick picked up at the farm where he and Morgan had their endless tete-a-tete last time.

 

Now that we've got medieval knights, TWD can do a Monte Python version of three questions.

[oakville]

 He was talking about how each breathe was getting harder for Carol to take.

 

 

 

 The doctor had equipment at Hilltop, including the ultrasound.  Even is the Doc agreed to go and Hilltop agreed to let the equipment leave (unlikely) that would have been as difficult and risky than moving Maggie, if not moreso.

 

Perhaps given the situation, it would make more sense to try & do what they can in Alexandria to try & save her & if that doesn't work out she would die. I like Maggie but in this new world, some people will die from otherwise treatable illness. Sending out 7-9 of your best fighters isn't logical when you don't know how powerful Negan's forces are

 

Frankly, it is surprising that that Negan could control 200 soldiers without someone mutinying all the time.

 

In Alexandria, Rick couldn't control the porch Doctor from getting violent. 

[Sighed I]

I think we did see the bat point to Glenn at one point. It pointed at each person - Glenn's turn came a few lines before the end. Not that it matters, since Negan was going at his own pace.

Yes, we did. I just rewatched it. Negan says, "My mother told me to pick the very best one and you" pauses, points bat at Rosita, at Aaron, at Glenn, "are" points to Maggie, points to Daryl, Abraham, Carl. You see Rick's face only (don't see the bat, just Rick sweating and trembling), pause, looks like Negan's still moving, then he stops, points the bat, "it."

Edited April 4, 2016 by Sighed I

[catrox14]

I think I was more worried about Carol than anyone. I did not want her to die from a beating at the hands of a man who called her a bitch.  That would have been too sick and reductive to her arc.

 

And it would have sent a message about women trying to move on from being an abuse survivor that would be....unfortunate at best.

[CletusMusashi]

And also, what the hell's up with Abe suddenly getting all this "I'm ready to raise a family, because I'm sane now or something," character development crap all of a sudden? What, he became a better person because he screamed at a zombie, smoked a cigar, and then took a giant red shit all over Rosita? Fuck Abraham. For all I care, he can get Lucilled to death, go to hell, and listen to monologues from all the Saviors that CDB have killed.

[phalange]

Regardless of the cliffhanger (which I can't bring myself to get that worked up over), I thought this was a great episode. I was certainly on pins and needles the entire time, and the last few minutes were the most tense I have ever been watching this show. That scene was really well done, and you could clearly see every single person's terror. Well done to the actors and director on that. And thanks, show, for assuring that I'll never hear "eeny, meeny, miney, mo" the same way ever again.

[HalcyonDays]

Negan is a psychopath who wants to leave other people's labor. People seem to forget it was Negan's men who first confronted Daryl, Abraham, and Sasha on that road. There was no avoiding this day. Negan and his people were always going to kill one of Rick's people and attempt enslave them.

 

That's what kills me. That Negan is being so high and mighty, that Rick's group killed some of his people. Here is a concept, Negan. Maybe your policies and violence against other people is WHY they are killing your people. Ever think of that?

 

Maybe everyone doesn't want to give up HALF of their stuff, especially when you wantonly kill. It's like last episode, with Morgan trying to justify to Rick, why he kept the Wolf alive and claiming that the Wolf saved Denise's life. Fool, if you hadn't LEFT that Wolf alive, Denise's live would never be in danger in the first place...

[catrox14]

And also, what the hell's up with Abe suddenly getting all this "I'm ready to raise a family, because I'm sane now or something," character development crap all of a sudden? What, he became a better person because he screamed at a zombie, smoked a cigar, and then took a giant red shit all over Rosita? Fuck Abraham. For all I care, he can get Lucilled to death, go to hell, and listen to monologues from all the Saviors that CDB have killed.

 

I don't think he's sane. He just found someone to recreate his old life with..especially the baby part. JMO

 

That's what kills me. That Negan is being so high and mighty, that Rick's group killed some of his people. Here is a concept, Negan. Maybe your policies and violence against other people is WHY they are killing your people. Ever think of that?

 

Well, that's what a megalomaniac thinks. The lack of self-awareness and narcissism is strong in the Negan.

[Iguessnot]

I think that the verdict on this on will be that it didn't work for non-comic readers, a group I'm a part of.

 

I think they relied on the comic knowledge too build dread over Neegan and failed in the show.  I think JDM is great.  But everything about him screamed that comic moment that they used to introduce Abraham, Euegene, and Rosita.  It took me a long time to get over the stupid of that. I have complete disinterest in this.

 

My reaction to Neegan was... his leather jacket is an 80s throw back, what's up with the mauve silk scarf...shut up...Lucille is not intimidating...eeny, meeny, miny, moe, seriously.  I don't know how they did it but I really do not care who got killed by the end of the episode. 

I don't read the comics either so the constant Neegan buildup was tedious. This episode depressed me immediately when nearly all of CDB headed out  to accompany Maggie for an OB exam. Seeing Neegan's ever growing group setting up roadblocks at every road just drove the futility of it all. 

 

Actually the introduction of Neegan was better than I expected. I really thought he was just going to "I'm Neegan" and then end the season. But God, so much talking. 

[CletusMusashi]

Now that we've got medieval knights, TWD can do a Monte Python version of three questions.

"How many of them have you killed?"

"How many humans have you killed?"

"What is the airspeed velocity of a shiny parade balloon?"

 

But of course they'd still have to give The Knights Who Say "Negan!" half of their shrubbery.

Edited April 4, 2016 by CletusMusashi

[SimoneS]

 The doctor had equipment at Hilltop, including the ultrasound.  Even is the Doc agreed to go and Hilltop agreed to let the equipment leave (unlikely) that would have been as difficult and risky than moving Maggie, if not moreso.

 

Exactly, the point of taking Maggie to the Hilltop was because the doctor and equipment were there. Also, she could have died waiting for him. It was risky, but saving her life was paramount. 

[bmoore4026]

walnutqueen, on 03 Apr 2016 - 11:10 PM, said:

I'm sorta proud to say I don't get the references, since I know nothing of these Ninja Turtles, nor any other comics after 1965.   Now, get off my lawn. 

 

Can I have my Frisbee?

[AngelaHunter]

Now that we've got medieval knights, TWD can do a Monte Python version of three questions.

 

I burst out laughing at that because I'm picturing someone saying "I fart in your general direction."

[catrox14]

 

Yes, but they'll have to give The Knights Who Say "Negan!" half of their shrubbery.

 

If this doesn't become the title of Negan's character thread....in some way...I'll be disappointed.

 

/ded

[shanndee]

Yes, but they'll have to give The Knights Who Say "Negan!" half of their shrubbery.

 

(ack, I wish that the quote within a quote showed up in this!)

 

Isn't it sad that these 2 statements entertained me more than the season finale did?

[Madding crowd]

So, most of us were sitting around with our alcohol and box of tissues and then nothing. It really would have been much better to show the kill and have the audience talking about it for weeks. For sure, it would have made a more interesting Talking Dead. Because of the cliffhanger, I kind of think it will not be any of major people (Rick, Daryl, Michonne, Glen, Maggie, Carl), because that would have fit better with showing it. 

 

I did feel some real fear for Maggie and damn, she really did look sick. And I know it isn't really Rick's fault, but his arrogant, we don't make deal, blah, blah, blah is costing someone his/her life. He could have agreed to make a deal and then collected more intell and then made a plan to kill off the Saviors. But he is too busy thinking he is the supreme leader to miss the other supreme leader who has three times as many people.

 

I like JDM and he is fine looking, but his Sons of Anarchy reject guys don't look like the kind who are interested in long speeches.

Happy that Morgan and the Knights of the Round Table came in to save Carol, but she was acting pretty out of character to me. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

And also, what the hell's up with Abe suddenly getting all this "I'm ready to raise a family, because I'm sane now or something," character development crap all of a sudden? What, he became a better person because he screamed at a zombie, smoked a cigar, and then took a giant red shit all over Rosita? Fuck Abraham. For all I care, he can get Lucilled to death, go to hell, and listen to monologues from all the Saviors that CDB have killed.

 

Him & his bisquick is anxious to get mixed up, poured out and get some lady's tummy full of pancakes.

[TVFan17]

If this doesn't become the title of Negan's character thread....in some way...I'll be disappointed.

 

/ded

 

Or the thread could be called "We Are All Negan."