S32.E07: It's Merge Time

[Special K]

I feel like Cydney had that (to me) borderline-grotesque body-builder physique when she started, but it's been taken down a notch and now she is just slamming.

[ForeverAlone]

Wow, if you think about it, I'm wondering why they couldnt have waited until immediately after tribal council, esp with jeff knowing neal had the idol and he would probably use it. I guess bc they couldn't afford to lose 2 ppl in one night?

When you look at the history of the show, if a medevac or quit occurs before an immunity challenge, they will still have a tribal council and vote someone out. But if a medevac or quit occurs after an immunity challenge, but before a tribal council, they won't have a  tribal council. In this case, it sounds like production knew that Neal needed to be medevaced earlier in the day after medical checked him out at the challenge. So they followed the pattern of the show by not having a tribal council, but they turned the medevac more into a scene in place of a tribal council. Neal basically said that he knew he was being pulled when the boat showed up, but they put on more of a production checking out other players. 

[Big Mother]

I think "Doctor's Call is Final" is a smart policy to keep firm on publicly (and so not revealing a "oh hell!" reaction to the would at the challenge makes sense).  Would have been interesting to see the ER doc's reaction to the wounds. Of course, without the knowledge of how serious it was for other players, maybe it's not fair to judge Peter for not being more concerned.

 

 

Peter said yesterday on twitter that maybe that beach needed Dr. Peter so that  Neal wouldn't end up medavac'ed. I dont' know if he said that tongue in cheek or he was just diagnosing/contesting Dr Rupert from his house... I think he did mention in his exit interview that him handling everyone's infections may have hurt him medically. I think btw that his stay and neal's at the hospital overlapped.

[violet and green]

If the chicken is that desperate for food, they must not be feeding it.

 

 

 

Not so! I have very well-fed backyard chickens, but if I am out back sitting down eating something, anything!, or even drinking a glass of water, they will try to get up into it the way Tai's hen did - if anything it is a marker of how well he is tending the bird that it is prepared to be so relaxed and pushy about food with him.

 

edit: quote monster

Edited March 31, 2016 by violet and green

[violet and green]

Gee that was anticlimactic. I thought Neal was a slimeball after ep one when he was hawhawing along with Dr Peter about the old ones, Debbie and Joe. Then I kind of mildly warmed to him. Now I'm back to: slimeball. What a creep, has to take his souvenir back home with him. It's nice he's allowed back to be on the jury, though.

 

Other than that, I quite enjoyed the episode - it's been a long time since they've had drunk survivors - but waaaaay too much focus on that gronk Nick. Not much finesse from Debbie! There goes my Tai and Debbie bonding and having hilarious and truthful conversations fantasy.

 

Was looking forward to tribal... Such a bummer when the show just rolled to a close, with Aubry looking woeboegone, again. This time with good reason. Hope she can turn things around. I was hoping to see kindy-tatts Jason go out in a shock surprise, with his idol in his pocket. That's about all I'm hoping for, currently. It's starting to feel like 'Merica again.

[Eolivet]

According to Dalton Ross' recap and Jeff Probst's interview at EW, linked by a couple of posters above, the medical team were on the beach checking up on all the players every single day.

 

Can someone with medical training explain to me why in the bluedilly hell they weren't giving these players antibiotics to begin with?! When I saw all their sores, I commented to my husband "I'm sure they're giving them antibiotics," and then we come to find out that after examining their infections, golly gee, the medical team wants to try these new-fangled things called antibiotics after all!

 

I mean, I know antimicrobial resistance is A Thing, but broad spectrum antibiotics for anyone with anything resembling a pus-oozing infection kind of seems like a smart choice? (I'm sure this is why I don't have a medical degree). And with all the rights they have to sign away in their contracts, it's not like informed consent is going to be a problem.

 

And I'm sorry, I just cannot believe the show was that naive -- nobody would ever confuse any of their locales for Survivor. Palm Beach, y'know? The show travels to entirely different countries -- different climate, different species, different bacteria. To act like, 32 seasons in, this is Brand New Information strikes me as a tad disingenuous. I seriously hope that wasn't someone in a network office going "Daily medical checks take away from the ~Survivor experience!"

 

Again, I hope Probst has found religion after this season, because he must know if someone had lost their leg because of the show's cavalier attitude towards medical care, Survivor might've had its torch extinguished...by CBS.

[Hera]

Nick seems to have a good mind for the game.

At least, he's good at thinking through the many alliance deals he's being offered. He didn't seem to pick up on Michele's distaste for him last week. I'm curious if he'd have the ability to make anything happen for himself if people were less inclined to just offer him deals and information. It's a shame that Beauty never went to tribal council—it seemed like he would have been on the outs on that tribe and it's not clear that he knew that.

 

I always feel bad for the person in Nick's situation here--he won immunity, but it meant nothing.

Me too. I'm not sure if I think production should do anything to make it up to them. He certainly shouldn't be guaranteed immunity for the next tribal council, but I wouldn't object to players in this situation being given some sort of advantage in the next one (having one bag fewer than everyone else to collect or whatever). It probably won't happen and I guess that's fine, but it does seem outwith the spirit of the idea that winning immunity should protect you from a vote.

 

I understand Aubry's frustration I guess but I think she was too harsh.  I wonder how she would feel if, in the middle of the goodbyes, Neal had turned to Jeff and said, "WAIT, JEFF.  BEFORE I GO, MAY I GIVE THIS HIDDEN IMMUNITY IDOL TO MY GOOD FRIEND, AUBRY?"  I presume she would be fuming about him putting a huge target on her back.  But what else could he have done?

It's never clear to me what the time-scale is. What we're shown is the doctor making the decision to pull the player and then the player going and saying good-bye to everyone. If that's an accurate reflection of what happens in real life, then Neal would raise everyone's suspicions if he asked to have a moment alone with Aubry. Maybe Aubry thought he could palm her his idol? But even then, someone might notice and call them out. I remember Alicia in One World was annoyed with Colton for the same reason (but both Alicia and Colton were terrible people, so it was kind of fun to watch one terrible person leave his terrible ally in the lurch like that).

 

Other than that, I KNEW IT that Scot would sell Tai once he joined with Jason! I had TOLD ya and I'm proud :P He has revealed Tai's idol not only to Jason which would be kind of expected but also to Nick of all people who he had never played with before! I find this a little weird, I feel we have missed something. Why isn't Julia reconnected with Michelle and playing as a couple? Why does Nick call all the shots? I feel I have a huge gap that doesn't make sense. Tai is given a (even fake) alliance and he hesitates. Julia is nowhere to be seen. Suddenly Nick (who was the one to go first in beauty tribe) is the leader of their tribe. Suddenly Debbie starts to create alliances all over the place. And suddenly Jason, Scot and Nick are best friends. What am I missing?

 

Yeah, there are definitely some missing pieces in the story they're showing. When did Nick replace Cydney in the Brawn alliance? The no-tribal ending of this episode was frustrating because they were setting up so many scenarios and I wanted to see which would actually pan out. 

 

As for Julia, I'm rather impressed with her at this point. She was in a terrible spot returning from Exile and then wound up in a majority alliance even after voting out the person that was most interested in aligning with her (Peter) and was completely safe had that tribe had to go back to TC.

I was surprised that Scot deliberately wanted Cydney out of the loop on Tai's idol, but was fine with Nick knowing about it. I had assumed that the plan was that Beauty and Brawn would stick together until they got down to seven, and then Tai would vote with Brawn to take out the rest of the Beauties. Now it looks like he might be thinking that it's actually going to be him, Jason, Tai, and Nick. I agree that it would have been nice to see more explanation from everyone about who they thought they were allied with and why. In particular, I want to know why Cydney's been demoted. Maybe she got too friendly people Jason didn't approve of while they were on Chan Loh.

 

I also agree with everyone who wants to know if Julia and Michele are interested in working with each other again. My hope is that they will once they get the chance. They were on separate tribes and had to make deals with whomever they could to keep from being targeted (even though Chan Loh didn't go to tribal council, Michele knew she'd be an obvious target, especially if they lost the first post-swap immunity), so it's understandable that they can't go rushing back to each other right away. So far, the women's alliance from Beauty hasn't had any obvious impact on the game and I can't imagine why we would have been shown it unless it explains Michele and Julia working together later on. At least, that's what I'm hoping.

 

Watching Scot dress Aubry and Joe down at the start of the episode reminded me of how big a difference someone's physique can make in how people react to them. From someone Tai's size, Aubry and Joe probably would have rolled their eyes and given confessionals about how weird and/or funny it was to have him think he was in charge. From someone young and female, like Julia, it would have looked unnecessary and emotional and Joe and Aubry probably would defended themselves more assertively. But from a huge guy like Scot—oh no question that he has the standing to do the disappointed daddy routine with two players with whom he wasn't formally aligned.

 

From this episode, it looks like Aubry's game is pretty screwed. Her only hope at this point is that someone decides they need her as a number. Debbie seems to want her on board, but it's not looking like Debbie is in such a great spot either—and even worse, it doesn't seem like Debbie is aware of that fact. On the other hand, in San Juan del Sur, it looked like Jaclyn and Jon were going to vote against Jeremy's, then Julie quit, saving everyone from Tribal Council that night, after which Jaclyn and Jon changed their minds and voted with Jeremy's alliance (though it probably helped Jeremy's alliance that Josh's target, Jeremy, won the next immunity). Maybe the extra couple of nights will put someone else in the crosshairs of the majority alliance. Or maybe Aubry will win the next immunity challenge and save herself that way.

 

Edited to finish a sentence I left incomplete.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Hera

[peachmangosteen]

Watching Scot dress Aubry and Joe down at the start of the episode reminded me of how big a difference someone's physique can make in how people react to them. From someone Tai's size, Aubry and Joe probably would have rolled their eyes and given confessionals about how weird and/or funny it was to have him think he was in charge. From someone young and female, like Julia, it would have looked unnecessary and emotional and Joe and Aubry probably would defended themselves more assertively. But from a huge guy like Scot—oh no question that he has the standing to do the disappointed daddy routine with two players with whom he wasn't formally aligned.

 

This makes the fact that Alecia never took shit from him even more awesome imo. It also helps explain his obvious anger at her not bowing down to him a bit because obviously he's used to people letting him do what he wants because he's big and scary.

Edited March 31, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[Calamity Jane]

Oh my stars and garters - just realized from reading the local news that Neal is the CEO of Three Twins!  There is a <3 <3 <3 Three Twins Ice Cream sticker on my fridge.  How did I miss this?  

[violet and green]

Neal blabs on about it here:

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/31/survivor-neal-insidetv-podcast-norman-reedus-rachel-bloom

 

He said he gave her a jacket - so it's possible the others might think that included the idol?

 

And Jiff talks about stuff related to the use of Neal's idol here:

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/31/survivor-jeff-probst-kaoh-rong-medical-evacuation

 

He could have given it to her. He chose not to, because he wanted to keep it for himself.

[piequinn35]

“Tai’s balls banging into each other.” And, “Nick with a lot of movement – his balls dancing all over the place.” Okay. Jeff, there is no way you can convince me that was not intentional. You’re clearly taking one for the team here by giving immature morons like me something to chuckle about while watching the challenge, right?

 

hilarious :))

[Lantern7]

I don't think Kyle is talking about getting rid of Tai because Tai is obviously in Scot's jock.

There's an image I don't need, azshadowwalker. I keep flashing back to the episode of Family Guy where Peter stuffed Stewie in his pants. Given the size differential between Scot and Tai, I can't help but make that comparison.

[Ms Blue Jay]

As for Debbie and her game-play...imagine you're Tai, and Debbie plops herself right down next to you, stares unblinkingly into your soul, and tells you that she really likes you and wants you on her team and you have to decide RIGHT NOW because everyone else is listening.  I mean, I felt bad for the guy.  I'd have said anything just to make her go away.  She has little to no self-awareness, and she came across in that scene as both threatening and a bit crazy.

 

It was a small clip, but it let my imagination run wild.  There's a lot we haven't been shown obviously.  So bear with me as I make a bunch of assumptions

 

As you say Debbie plops herself down right next to Tai and stares into his eyes.

 

"TAI.   I LIKE YOU."

Tai:  ......

"BE IN AN ALLIANCE WITH US."  (Or whatever.)

Tai:  ....... ........... Ok......

(To whomever):  "WE GOT 'IM."

 

Haha!  Awkward as fuck.   How much time did Tai and Debbie actually spend talking to each other before that point?  Obviously Tai's not going to trust some stranger who tells him that she likes him right away without knowing anything about him.  Except for maybe how he looks in his underwear and his affiliation with chickens.

 

It just read to me as condescending, Debbie treating Tai like a child, as if to say I am an adult who will tell you what to do because you're just so helpless and scared, and you will do it.  And then Tai actually DID react like a child, but the kind of child who's parents taught him about strangers, or perhaps is never around other adults and doesn't fully trust them, and just kind of froze on the spot.  Hilarious!  The editors make me laugh by always having Tai's voiceover about how he doesn't trust people right after they try and talk to him.  People assume that he looks / acts like somebody should be on the Brains tribe, but so far, those Brains do not impress Tai much.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[piequinn35]

Tai had a big question mark floating above his head while listening to Debbie :))

[dkb]

The whole sequence with Debbie, Tai and Nick was so funny. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Debbie seemed so unaware of the way the other two were responding to her.

[Alapaki]

Can someone with medical training explain to me why in the bluedilly hell they weren't giving these players antibiotics to begin with?! When I saw all their sores, I commented to my husband "I'm sure they're giving them antibiotics," and then we come to find out that after examining their infections, golly gee, the medical team wants to try these new-fangled things called antibiotics after all!

I mean, I know antimicrobial resistance is A Thing, but broad spectrum antibiotics for anyone with anything resembling a pus-oozing infection kind of seems like a smart choice? (I'm sure this is why I don't have a medical degree). And with all the rights they have to sign away in their contracts, it's not like informed consent is going to be a problem.

 

 

Jeff also admitted to Dalton that the medical team was aware of the wound situation very early on, starting with Tai's scraped-up inner-thighs.  Under those circumstances, the failure to at least bandage the wounds or slather then in Neosporin (or some other treatment for open wounds) is really inexcusable.  There are many easy things they could've done to minimize the chance of infection.  As it is, they ended up having what is usually one of the most interesting TCs (the first post-merge one) scrapped and potentially the remaining post-merge course of the game determined by a microbe.

[Big Mother]

Neal's interview with Josh WIgler in Parade magazine answered a lot of the questions, about the medical situation and about why he didnt give aubry the idol. not sure if it's ok for me to post the link here, but I will if it's okay.

[mythoughtis]

Nick doesn't get to use his immunity idol, Neal gets pulled from the game.   Both are examples of the luck factor that goes into survivor.  Every player is affected by the way the game plays out - merge saves you or it crushes you,  you are seen reaching into your backpack, or someone thinks they saw you reach into theirs.  That is what makes the show so fascinating to the viewers.

[Nashville]

Can someone with medical training explain to me why in the bluedilly hell they weren't giving these players antibiotics to begin with?! When I saw all their sores, I commented to my husband "I'm sure they're giving them antibiotics," and then we come to find out that after examining their infections, golly gee, the medical team wants to try these new-fangled things called antibiotics after all!

 

I mean, I know antimicrobial resistance is A Thing, but broad spectrum antibiotics for anyone with anything resembling a pus-oozing infection kind of seems like a smart choice? (I'm sure this is why I don't have a medical degree). And with all the rights they have to sign away in their contracts, it's not like informed consent is going to be a problem.

 

And I'm sorry, I just cannot believe the show was that naive -- nobody would ever confuse any of their locales for Survivor. Palm Beach, y'know? The show travels to entirely different countries -- different climate, different species, different bacteria. To act like, 32 seasons in, this is Brand New Information strikes me as a tad disingenuous. I seriously hope that wasn't someone in a network office going "Daily medical checks take away from the ~Survivor experience!"

 

Again, I hope Probst has found religion after this season, because he must know if someone had lost their leg because of the show's cavalier attitude towards medical care, Survivor might've had its torch extinguished...by CBS.

 

In a sense, I think this is an indicator that after 32 seasons, the show is still maturing. 

 

in the past, Survivor's medical policy has always been "Except in case of serious injury, Medical doesn't touch any player unless that player specifically requests medical attention" - and on the surface, that looks like a good policy for a show which emphasizes (among other things) physical toughness and the perception of living on the ragged edge of survival.  After all, this show is about people who work hard, play hard, and game hard, right?  They're SUPPOSED to persevere through all manners of obstacles, strategic and physical.  Toughing out minor injuries is taken as a sign of their toughness and dedication to their tribe, their alliance, and the Game.  And the players are adults - surely if there's a serious health issue they'll contact Medical, right?

 

Except it doesn't necessarily work out that way, primarily because the patient is frequently the least qualified person to objectively assess their own condition and/or medical needs.  These are people suffering from various degrees of malnutrition, dehydration, exposure, and physical and mental stress - all of which can affect judgment.  More than once we've seen how this altered judgment plus the player's personal drive to succeed in the Game leads them to push their body past limits they would normally recognize, or turn a blind eye to the effects of illness or overexertion.  Throw into this mix the king-sized egos and narcissism which is often  seen in the personality types who put in for this game - personality types which would endure the tortures of the damned rather than admit any form of weakness - and you have the recipe for the world's worst diagnostician in the world. 

 

Oh, and it's also worth mentioning that ALMOST NONE OF THE PLAYERS HAVE MEDICAL TRAINING - although, as Dr. Peter so ably demonstrated, maybe it doesn't really make THAT much of a difference.  Just throwing that out there.

 

Suffice it to say the responsibility (and yes, the blame) for this fall squarely on the shoulders of Production.  IMHO this deficiency of oversight was not malicious or intentionally neglectful, however; rather, it was the result of immaturity - or lack of experience, if you prefer.  Given the extreme competitive physical taxation the show inflicts upon bodies ill-equipped to deal with such, it's a bloody miracle Survivor hasn't had a far greater number of serious medical calamities - or hadn't had, prior to the season currently being aired. The law of averages does seem to be catching up with them bigtime, however; I don't think it would be stretching the truth to say fully a quarter of this season's cast will have SOME permanent health-related reminder of their time on Survivor.  Both clinicians and plastic surgeons can only do so much.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if the true reasons for this season's airing delay were twofold:

1. Time needed to review and revise Medical's policies and standing orders to prevent a repeat of this season's string of health-related gaffes.
2. Time to implement the revised policies and procedures before deficiencies were exposed and made vulnerable to exploit by successive competitors.

 

 

As you say Debbie plops herself down right next to Tai and stares into his eyes.

 

"TAI.   I LIKE YOU."

Tai:  ......

"BE IN AN ALLIANCE WITH US."  (Or whatever.)

Tai:  ....... ........... Ok......

(To whomever):  "WE GOT 'IM."

 

Haha!  Awkward as fuck.

 

Reminded me to death of the Are You A God? question.

[KimberStormer]

Hera, on 31 Mar 2016 - 2:59 PM, said:

Me too. I'm not sure if I think production should do anything to make it up to them. He certainly shouldn't be guaranteed immunity for the next tribal council, but I wouldn't object to players in this situation being given some sort of advantage in the next one (having one bag fewer than everyone else to collect or whatever). It probably won't happen and I guess that's fine, but it does seem outwith the spirit of the idea that winning immunity should protect you from a vote.

 

Yeah, I mean, there's nothing they can really do.  The prize for winning immunity is not being able to be voted out, and Nick was unable to be voted out, so he got what he played for.  But Cochran (of all people) once made a very good point, that having immunity is more than three more days; it gives you the security to play harder, think farther, because you don't need to worry about your #1 priority of not going home that night.  That's taken care of.  So you can think ahead, what do I want to happen next tribal?  Who should I vote out now to make that happen?  Etc.  To some degree Nick got that ability, and we saw it in his suddenly prominent gameplay, but still, it must be somewhat disappointing not to be able to go to tribal with that necklace on, knowing you can do whatever you please there.

[jzygayle]

I had an infection on my hand once and despite being otherwise healthy, I was in the hospital for five days, to get round-the-clock IV antibiotics.  I felt completely fine and healthy, but the doctors were freaking out and eventually after hovering over me for several days while the infection didn't get too much better, the hand surgeons did a surgical drainage.  They said that if the infection took hold in the tendons and bones, I might lose function of my hand or, worse, lose my actual hand! 

 

So the relative grossness of the sore isn't really the issue, but more the location.  Actually when I walked into the ER, having been sent there by my GP, they stamped "URGENT"  on my form and I was hurried in before any of the other people waiting.  So, yeah, these kinds of things can run rampant very quickly.  If the docs knew from Liz and Peter how bad the infections on that beach are, they wouldn't want to take any chances.

 

 

Right.  Location is everything.  And in Neal's case, not only was the infection smack on top of a major, impact-tolerant joint, it was wide open.  The fact it burst is BAD, it made the situation that much worse because it opened that entire cavity to more infection, with a 'starting' point that much closer to the joint underneath.

Remember how the doctor kept grabbing around these boils?  He was checking to see if they were still within the skin layers or if they'd advanced deeper into muscle tissue (and eventually) bone.  He couldn't get behind the wound site on Neal's knee wound.  The infection had likely not get gotten into the joint, but that sort of thing can happen quickly and it had a big head start.  

They had to pull him.

[himela]

I am still wondering what is the deal with the beauty tribe. I would expect at least a discussion of the four where they would pretend to be together. What is the reason these four beauties cannot be an alliance? Why are the brawns and the brains units but the beauties not? What have we missed from the pre-swap period that makes no sense now? How can 3 brawns be stronger than 4 beauties + 4 brains when the easiest thing to do would be to start voting out the brawns and take it from there?

 

Maybe what Neal could have done is, in front of everybody turn to Nick and give him his idol saying "since you are pretending to be aligned with everyone here, I'm giving this to you to help your game. Adios". What a chaos would that create? (I'm evil, I know :P)

[SlackerInc]

Second, I just have no use for Probst talking us through how courageous Neal was tonight, how much he wanted to fight, but no, it is not his fault he was pulled from the game, he was a hero felled by an infection.  I just think back to that woman on the season with Penner, who had severe abdominal issues and he made her quit, rather than allow her an honorable out.  How is one infection worthy of praise and another worthy of disdain.  Gahhhh!!!!

 

I remember arguing that point with several people (including Linda Holmes on Twitter, who I think may have blocked me as a result as I don't think she has ever responded to me since then).  I thought she seemed like she was playing it up.  In any case, the doctor didn't pull her, so she had to quit, them's the rules.  Otherwise, anyone who was getting fed up with the game can say they have a tummyache and voila: no one is ever a quitter, ever again.

 

 

Neal blabs on about it here:

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/31/survivor-neal-insidetv-podcast-norman-reedus-rachel-bloom

 

He said he gave her a jacket - so it's possible the others might think that included the idol?

 

And Jiff talks about stuff related to the use of Neal's idol here:

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/31/survivor-jeff-probst-kaoh-rong-medical-evacuation

 

He could have given it to her. He chose not to, because he wanted to keep it for himself.

 

Ugh, how selfish.  And I had liked him!  How is a chintzy souvenir worth more than having an impact in the game after you're out?

[marys1000]

So I'm just going to cut and paste part of the interview - thanks mythougts for the tip to that

 

I ended up at the hospital around midnight. I was staring up at the ceiling as they dug out my knee with what looked like a melon baller. They did the same thing to my back. I was in the hospital for a couple of days. They brought me back to the city that the island of Kaôh Rōng is off of, and the next morning, I ran four miles on the hotel treadmill. The only time the knee ever really hurt was the first day that it popped up, as the painful little pimple. The doctor came out and ended up lancing it. After that, I had full mobility. I was running around, I was looking for idols, I was getting food. I was fine! That’s one of the reasons why it was so tough. I understand why they made the decision, but at the same time, as I said to Jeff before the challenge, “I’m fine.” It wasn’t bothering me.

After you went through the hospital and consulted with the doctors and everything, did that crystalize the situation for you? Did you agree with their decision to pull you from the game?

I mean, I think I’ll always be split on that thought. There was a confessional I gave in the morning before the immunity challenge. They were setting up the shot, and I was digging into [the knee] with some grass, just getting some pus out, and a big chunk came out. I could see that the hole wasn’t what I thought it was. There was a secondary hole beneath the hole. It went a lot deeper than I thought. That was the moment where I thought to myself, “Oh, crap. They’re going to pull me for this.”

So, I actually packed all my stuff up. I didn’t tell anyone what I was doing. But I brought the ice cream pants, my leather shoes, my sports coat, my bow tie, and a few other mementos, to the immunity challenge, because I thought for sure they were going to yank me from the game right there. And then they didn’t. They didn’t! I thought, “Okay, we’re going to get through Tribal. They’re going to leave me in.” And then you see Jeff pulling up in the boat…

 

Why is he being called the "Jury Foreman"  Is that a new title?  I don't think I've heard the first jury member called that before.

 

Wow - so they knew they were going to pull him but let him play in the immunity challenge.  What if he had won? 

Edited April 1, 2016 by marys1000

[marys1000]

I remember arguing that point with several people (including Linda Holmes on Twitter, who I think may have blocked me as a result as I don't think she has ever responded to me since then).  I thought she seemed like she was playing it up.  In any case, the doctor didn't pull her, so she had to quit, them's the rules.  Otherwise, anyone who was getting fed up with the game can say they have a tummyache and voila: no one is ever a quitter, ever again.

 

 

 

Ugh, how selfish.  And I had liked him!  How is a chintzy souvenir worth more than having an impact in the game after you're out?

He did say he regretted not giving it to her. Although I don't know that I buy all that bit about emotional turmoil and not thinking clearly.  He gave her his jacket and a bunch of stuff from his pockets so they would think she had an idol which seems like pretty clear thinking to me.  He says he did it to help her like now they'll wonder but it just puts a target on her with nothing to back it up. 

[ForeverAlone]

I am still wondering what is the deal with the beauty tribe. I would expect at least a discussion of the four where they would pretend to be together. What is the reason these four beauties cannot be an alliance? Why are the brawns and the brains units but the beauties not? What have we missed from the pre-swap period that makes no sense now? How can 3 brawns be stronger than 4 beauties + 4 brains when the easiest thing to do would be to start voting out the brawns and take it from there?

 

Maybe what Neal could have done is, in front of everybody turn to Nick and give him his idol saying "since you are pretending to be aligned with everyone here, I'm giving this to you to help your game. Adios". What a chaos would that create? (I'm evil, I know :P)

From what I have seen from seasons past, the tribes that were smaller at the merge, due to going to tribal council so much, were often tighter and more cohesive than larger tribes that escaped tribal council. Sometimes this crucible forges a tighter teams, because a lot of the weaker or disruptive players have been removed and the smaller tribe is willing to stay strong. It is that dynamic that sometimes results in minority alliances picking off majority alliances, because there are serious fractures in the larger tribe, for a variety of reasons, that minority alliances can exploit. Since Brawn is down to their tightest three, I can easily see them sticking together (depending on how that promo plays out next week). Beauty had never been tested at tribal council before the swap, so who knows how alliances REALLY shake out over there? 

[himela]

From what I have seen from seasons past, the tribes that were smaller at the merge, due to going to tribal council so much, were often tighter and more cohesive than larger tribes that escaped tribal council. Sometimes this crucible forges a tighter teams, because a lot of the weaker or disruptive players have been removed and the smaller tribe is willing to stay strong. It is that dynamic that sometimes results in minority alliances picking off majority alliances, because there are serious fractures in the larger tribe, for a variety of reasons, that minority alliances can exploit. Since Brawn is down to their tightest three, I can easily see them sticking together (depending on how that promo plays out next week). Beauty had never been tested at tribal council before the swap, so who knows how alliances REALLY shake out over there? 

I understand what you are saying, but wouldn't it be better for the beauty tribe to put their differences behind and become a strong four alliance team rather than being individuals who will only be used as a vote by the others and then be voted out?

[LizBug]

If you have time, watch Neal's Ponderosa video ... several days after he was medivac'd.  He's toying with the idol and saying that, even when he's 80 years old, he'll still remember his time on Survivor as a high point in his life.  He's expecting to be asked back to play again.  

 

As for the Brawn dudes ... they're pulling in the guys (except Joe), sharing the "insider info" about the idols and planning to do a SuperIdol play down the line.  Only thing is, who gets to use the SuperIdol is the big question?  Say, Jason is on the chopping block after the votes are read.  Does he turn to Tai and demand Tai's idol?  

[Big Mother]

Neal said in one of his interviews that he did have antibiotics at first but it want working, esp bc the boil had been lanced. 

[peachmangosteen]

It just read to me as condescending, Debbie treating Tai like a child, as if to say I am an adult who will tell you what to do because you're just so helpless and scared, and you will do it.  And then Tai actually DID react like a child, but the kind of child who's parents taught him about strangers, or perhaps is never around other adults and doesn't fully trust them, and just kind of froze on the spot.  Hilarious!  The editors make me laugh by always having Tai's voiceover about how he doesn't trust people right after they try and talk to him.  People assume that he looks / acts like somebody should be on the Brains tribe, but so far, those Brains do not impress Tai much.

 

This is how that whole scene came off to me, too. It was hilarious, but also kinda sad tbh.

[needschocolate]

Wow - so they knew they were going to pull him but let him play in the immunity challenge.  What if he had won? 

 

Neal said he himself "knew" they were going to pull him from the game.  That doesn't mean that Jeff knew that he should be pulled. However, Jeff must have thought that at least one of them was bad enough that getting pulled was a possibility - which is why he had the doctor come out and take a look at it.  

 

What I don't get is - Isn't there a doctor at the challenges?  Why didn't the doctor look at it then, instead of coming back later? Risking Neal's knee for drama is pretty bad.  But maybe there wasn't a doctor at the challenge - maybe there is only one at challenges where they think there is a higher risk of someone getting hurt enough.  I suppose they wouldn't expect any big medical issues when all the players had to do was stand on a plank while balancing balls on a wooden plate (as long as they were hydrated and it wasn't too hot out).  

[fishcakes]

After you went through the hospital and consulted with the doctors and everything, did that crystalize the situation for you? Did you agree with their decision to pull you from the game?

 

I mean, I think I’ll always be split on that thought.

 

So even after being hospitalized, given antibiotics, and having a ton of pus literally scooped, according to him, out of his leg, he still thinks his judgment that he was fine to stay in the game might have been correct and that the judgment of the person with medical training and experience might have been wrong. Oy. I bet this guy is a joy to have a conversation with.

 

He's expecting to be asked back to play again.

 

Unless they do a season where every player was previously medevaced, I don't see it. He's neither likable nor hatable (well, I hate him, but I think I'm an outlier), he's an average player, he's not eye candy, he's not that interesting. Sometimes they bring back people who seem like fodder and it turns out that they're good players (Kelly Wentworth for example) and other times they bring back fodder who actually are fodder (hello, Monica), but usually only if they're women who look good in bikinis. I can't remember them ever bringing back a guy who was a nothingburger.

 

What is the reason these four beauties cannot be an alliance? Why are the brawns and the brains units but the beauties not? What have we missed from the pre-swap period that makes no sense now?

 

I think we're missing something in terms of what's happening now between Julia and Michele, but as far as the Beauty tribe as a whole goes, I don't think we missed anything. The Beauty women were a solid alliance and even bringing Caleb in, Anna (I think it was Anna who talked to him) made it clear that he'd be fourth. Tai and Nick knew they were on the outs. Even though there is always a pecking order, it's not a good idea to let everyone know where they stand in it. Except for the Beauty women not being assholes about it, it's not different from the Brawns letting Alecia know she was on the bottom. Had they cancelled the TC where Alecia got voted out and she'd somehow made it to the merge, I wouldn't expect Alecia/Scot/Jason/Cydney to stick together any more than I expect Tai/Nick/Julia/Michele to be allied now.

[Alapaki]

What I don't get is - Isn't there a doctor at the challenges?  Why didn't the doctor look at it then, instead of coming back later? Risking Neal's knee for drama is pretty bad.  But maybe there wasn't a doctor at the challenge - maybe there is only one at challenges where they think there is a higher risk of someone getting hurt enough.

 

 

But Probst is on record saying that the contestants are all routinely evaluated before and after the challenges (and that they were this season as well).  If it was enough to give Neal concern about being pulled, it should have been recognized by the medical crew.  Of course, it certainly may have been, but nothing was said to Neal directly but rather that medic-visit to the camp was arranged.  Which, although I don't know the time-lapse, would seem to be risking a player's health (through risk of the infection spreading) for the sake of "getting the shot".

[dsteele]

After the visibility this ep's extended screen time gave him, I still can't get past the feeling that Nick's mom had the Zika virus during her pregnancy.

[Dobian]

I think Nick, Michele, and Julia might want to consider teaming up with the remaining brains and force Scott and Jason to burn their super idol right away.  Otherwise, Tai is going to become more and more the key to things as they get closer to the end.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Dobian

[marys1000]

Neal said he himself "knew" they were going to pull him from the game.  That doesn't mean that Jeff knew that he should be pulled. However, Jeff must have thought that at least one of them was bad enough that getting pulled was a possibility - which is why he had the doctor come out and take a look at it.  

 

What I don't get is - Isn't there a doctor at the challenges?  Why didn't the doctor look at it then, instead of coming back later? Risking Neal's knee for drama is pretty bad.  But maybe there wasn't a doctor at the challenge - maybe there is only one at challenges where they think there is a higher risk of someone getting hurt enough.  I suppose they wouldn't expect any big medical issues when all the players had to do was stand on a plank while balancing balls on a wooden plate (as long as they were hydrated and it wasn't too hot out).  

The Dr. was at the challenge.  I think he did something to Neals back at the challenge.  Neal thought he was going to pulled right then for his knee.  So when he went back to camp after the challenge he packed his things because he thought he'd be pulled.  When he saw the boat I think he started to cry. 

 

So it wasn't bad enough not to let him play the challenge with it but it was bad enough to pull him a few hours later.  ummm

Edited April 1, 2016 by marys1000

[riverheightsnancy]

I used to work on a psych floor in a hospital and am familiar with infection control and staph (to an extent), but what I do not understand is how/why a specific beach can be the catalyst. Can anyone explain how or why a beach can be so "infected" or cause infections? Is it loaded with poop and pee? Why would production put them there? When we look at all these life threatening issues after 30 days, I am amazed the human race even survived. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

At this point I'd probably dole out money to you guys to not hear about Neal's knee pus anymore.  

 

If you have time, watch Neal's Ponderosa video ... several days after he was medivac'd.  He's toying with the idol and saying that, even when he's 80 years old, he'll still remember his time on Survivor as a high point in his life.  

 

Then I understand Neal keeping the idol, this is just reason like #5 of why I understand why.  I don't think he's selfish.  Why NOT keep the idol as a souvenir.  He's the one who found it for goodness sakes.  He doesn't owe Aubry anything.  What connects him to Aubry. They have more impressive jobs than the other contestants and were put on the same Brain tribe together.  They weren't literally family!  

 

LOL at fishcakes clarifying that you hate Neal (the "nothingburger").

Edited April 1, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Alapaki]

Can anyone explain how or why a beach can be so "infected" or cause infections? Is it loaded with poop and pee? Why would production put them there? When we look at all these life threatening issues after 30 days, I am amazed the human race even survived.

 

 

I suppose the ability to clean and close or cover an open wound goes a long way.  And the failure to do so apparently puts one at real risk.  As far as the history of humankind, a great number of humans actually did die from infections of small wounds.  I think as recently as WW1 a high percentage of battlefield deaths were ultimately from infected wounds rather than the damage from the wound itself.

[Dobian]

I used to work on a psych floor in a hospital and am familiar with infection control and staph (to an extent), but what I do not understand is how/why a specific beach can be the catalyst. Can anyone explain how or why a beach can be so "infected" or cause infections? Is it loaded with poop and pee? Why would production put them there? When we look at all these life threatening issues after 30 days, I am amazed the human race even survived. 

 

More likely it's just what happens when you get a bunch of noobs pretending to be survivalists in the outdoors.  Like when Tai was tearing his skin off shinnying up a tree.  They probably didn't do an adequate job of keeping their skin clean, washing themselves off in the ocean, checking themselves over each day, being careful to avoid scrapes and cuts.  Some things you can't help, I know.  But the infections are a pattern with this group.

 

 

Then I understand Neal keeping the idol, this is just reason like #5 of why I understand why.  I don't think he's selfish.  Why NOT keep the idol as a souvenir.  He's the one who found it for goodness sakes.  He doesn't owe Aubry anything.  What connects him to Aubry, they have more impressive jobs than the other contestants and were put on the same Brain tribe together.  They weren't literally family!

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think he had a choice.  When the doctor made the decision to remove him from the game, that's it, he's done.  It's no different than Probst putting someone's torch out.  If the person is carrying an idol on them they can't run back and give it to someone, they're out of the game and the idol is out of play.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Dobian

[piequinn35]

I'm not familiar with HII rules and I don't remember a person who got medavaced with a HII,

can the production put another HII in the camp, or is it gone forever and ever after thank you. :)

[marys1000]

Where did you get that info?  It wasn't in the episode or an exit interview that I saw.  

 

 

For some reason I can't copy the link!

 

Survivor's Neal Gottlieb reveals what we didn't know about his game-ending injury  by Ryan Haidet

site:  Sheknows

SK: What caused that initial injury?

NG: That's the weird thing. It came from within. On day 15 after the challenge, I suddenly, out of the blue, got what felt like a pimple on my knee. It was a little deeper. It just came from within. It really hurt then, so I requested the doctor come out. He lanced it and nothing really came out, but it just kept on growing. It was big. It was a big, friggin' hole in my knee

SheKnows: When you saw that boat approaching the beach and Jeff Probst got off, did you know your time was up?

Neil Gottlieb: Oh yeah. I knew that the executioner was there for me. There was no doubt. Earlier in the day, before going to the Immunity challenge, I packed up all my stuff. I thought I was getting pulled from the challenge. I was surprised that I got to go back to camp that day.

SK: When Probst came to your beach, had somebody requested medical attention at that moment, or was it truly an unexpected house call?

NG: It was an unexpected, unpleasant surprise. I had some inkling they might come, because usually after challenges you get medical attention if you want. What they didn't show was the doctor had squeezed the one on my back with both hands. It was one of the worst experiences of my life. Imagine a grown man squeezing your back, basically tearing the flesh. Blood and pus squirted out and it looked like a Civil War battlefield. It was absolutely disgusting. It was absolutely horrible. At the challenge, when Jeff was asking me about Mount St. Neal, he also had me pull up my shirt to show him the wound on my back. I had to take the bandage off for that. I figured, "Oh, I will get medical attention after this." They were like, "We can't do that right now. We'll take care of it later." I didn't really think about it again until the boat showed up.

[Dobian]

Dobian- Jeff said in interviews they did give Neal the choice but he kept his idol.  

 

That was bad on Neal then and really changes the game.

[iMonrey]

 

He could have given it to her. He chose not to, because he wanted to keep it for himself.

 

That's basically what I figured it all came down to. Once he knew he was out of the game I'm sure he had zero interest in whatever happened to anyone else left, Aubrey included. He just wanted that thing as a souvenir. 

 

His interview also confirms what I suspected was the likely anti-climax of this episode had Neal stayed - the four brains would have voted for Jason, and the others would have split their votes between Neal and Aubrey. He was leaning towards just letting Aubrey get voted out rather than giving her the idol anyway. 

[ghoulina]

I don't blame Neal for not giving away the idol.  He had no idea what edit Aubry was getting what or true game she was playing.  It could've been the stupidest play since JT 2.0 for all he knew.  At that time he was probably annoyed he was being pulled and she wasn't, anyway, so why help her win?

 

I don't think you can quite compare the two, because Neal would have hypothetically given his away after being definitively removed from the game. JT was still very much in the game when he gave his Idol away. I am not upset that Neal kept his Idol. There was a lot going on and he doesn't necessarily owe Aubry anything. But I don't think it would have been a bad play, because his playtime was over. 

 

So it wasn't bad enough not to let him play the challenge with it but it was bad enough to pull him a few hours later.  ummm

 

It did seem like they kind of already knew the outcome. I don't know why they chose to handle it all back at camp. Maybe he'd have to go back there for his stuff anyhow? Maybe they didn't want to detract from the challenge. I wonder if it might have been different if it had been a more physical challenge. There wasn't too much risk to his knee balancing on a platform. Now if they had let him crawl around in the sand and what-not, I'd think differently. 

[seacliffsal]

Neal may not have wanted Aubrey or another Brain to win. He wanted to win which was the basis of his alliance with Aubrey. He may really not care one way or another, so he didn't have an obligation to give his idol to anyone. I don't think less of Neal for not giving his idol away. He had to medic-leave, so perhaps having the idol makes upf a bit for having to leave when he did.

[violet and green]

Thanks.  It's unclear if he saw the doctor at both challenges or just the day 15 one.  I think this one was day 18, right?  I'm thinking maybe Dr. Joe examined him on the day 15 challenge and squeezed his back then, which is why he had to remove a bandage to show it to Jeff at the start of this challenge?  I did think his back looked scabbed over when we were shown it.  Gross, but scabbed.  

 

Jeff said on EW: "Our medical team always checks out the players before and after challenges and Tribal. We added another layer of monitoring after the infamous challenge, during which three players went down. From that point forward the players received daily checks at the beach."

[piequinn35]

Okay they checked the contestants, it was unfortunate for Neal and Caleb

Why them? why not Bounty?? :))

[violet and green]

Maybe Dr Rupert is an infectious diseases in the local area expert?

[grumpypanda]

Can someone please explain to me why Jason is called Kyle here. Sorry if it's already been explained but I haven't seen it mentioned yet. We just call him the Ogre in my house.