S01.E09: Manna From Heaven

[Tara Ariano]

Johnnie Cochran and F. Lee Bailey go in search of the Mark Fuhrman tapes and Judge Ito decides if they're admissible.

[SoSueMe]

It is making me queasy.

The acting is amazing, though. Especially the Darden and Clark characters.

[SimoneS]

I am seriously going to miss the hell out of this show. I cannot believe we only have one episode to go.

 

"I don't understand how can you teach screen writing when you cannot sell a script," they start to bicker. Ha. "God brought us those tapes. They are manna from heaven." Unbelievable. I enjoyed Shapiro yelling at Cochrane.  I had to laugh at all of the symbols of confederacy littered in the scenes in North Carolina. It is so timely given the debate about these racist symbols today. Bailey was so full of shit in the court room. I laughed when Johnny told Sean to stop crying. They are all such hypocrites and O.J. is ridiculous. All the actors, Vance, Travolta, Nathan Lane, Gooding jr, and the actors playing the other defense attorneys are damn good though. David Schwimmer was subtle and good as the horrified Bobby.

 

I had no idea how much drama there was behind getting those Fuhrman tapes or that he also hated on Ito's wife on those tapes. He is such a racist shit and went on to get rich after the trial. Did the prosecution really not know about Fuhrman? I cannot believe that, more likely they never thought it would come out.  I loved the stink eye that everyone in the courtroom was throwing at Fuhrman. I thought that Darden was unprofessional storming out the courtroom. Did that really happen? I was so embarrassed for Chris in court, but I liked how he told off Marcia for ignoring the truth about Fuhrman.

 

The actor who plays Chris Darden was very good as was Sarah Paulson. Garcetti's comment about his numbers cracked me up. Politicians are so horrible. Ito and his wife are pieces of work. Garcetti and Marcia should have gone for the mistrial. Ito is such a hypocrite. He is so compassionate towards his wife and a shit to Marcia in his courtroom.

 

At least, Marcia got primary custody of her kids in the midst of this whole drama.

Edited March 30, 2016 by SimoneS

[CeeBeeGee]

Shut the f*** up, Johnnie. "God sent us these tapes"--yes, God wants a man who slaughtered his ex-wife and a stranger to walk. Nailed it! Did God send you brain cancer as well?

 

I just realized the guy who plays Furman is currently on Broadway in The Robber Bridegroom which I'm seeing on Thursday.

 

I admit, hearing Darden dutifully repeat "he said 'she sucked and...'" made me laugh.

 

I remember when Ito's wife signed off on that sheet but don't remember her demeanor--did she lie? Didn't she and Ito seem really excited about the whole prospect of his being the judge?

 

Ito punts. I despise Ito nearly as much as I despise Cohran, but that seemed...appropriate, to let another judge rule? Is Ito getting a sympathetic edit?

 

I love Darden. He is the voice of reason and perspective and he just seems generally awesome.

 

SHUT THE F*** UP COCHRAN (re: his ranting in the elevator). God, what a fucking ego.

 

Again, loving Darden (elevator scene). He deserved to be remembered better than he has been.

 

PREACH IT CHRISTOPHER!!!!!!!!! Yes! "There is nothing funny here!" THANK YOU--no, Johnnie the wife beater, there is nothing funny about a woman whose ex-husband nearly beheaded her. Or a man who tried to help his friend and was murdered as a result. But you don't give the slightest fuck about any of that. I can just imagine Johnnie's fury if someone had laughed at him when he spoke passionately. 

 

It's really too bad they didn't have a Mark Fuhrman spouting racist garbage on, say, the Rodney King trial, or the investigation of Daniel Pantaleo (murderer of Eric Garner)--two cases, among many, that actually were about police corruption and racism.

 

"This is now the Fuhrman trial, not about the man that murdered my son." I'm so sorry, Mr. Goldman. I'm sorry, Sydney and Justin. You deserved better.

 

Is that how it is commonly phrased--Fifth Amendment privilege? Is it not a right, not a privilege? (Probably a pedantic question.)

 

LOVED RK's muted "yeah, a real success." He knows his best friend is a murderous POS.

[Umbelina]

It was very good.

 

Fuhrman isn't rich, I google earthed his house in the tiny little town where he lives.  There is a photo of it somewhere, and the house was so small with a pretty distinctive structure, didn't take long to find it.  It nicer now, but not the nicest one in town, pick up truck in the driveway.

 

I loved the North Carolina scenes, and Darden and Ito were amazing.  Ditto Clark in that courtroom scene.

 

Hell, they all brought it tonight, not a lame actor in this bunch.

[wanderingstar]

"God brought us those tapes."

 

Um, ok. Johnnie.

 

Courtney B. Vance was amazing once again. I have to also mention Kenneth Choi's performance. I think he's doing a very good job as Ito.

 

If this was a different show, I'd be rooting for those two crazy kids (Chris and Marcia) to work it out.

 

This was another stellar episode. I can't believe the finale is next week.

[Primetimer]

American Crime Story takes storytelling risks; great acting pays them off (again).

Read the story

[Spartan Girl]

Fuhrman is scum. Those tapes were disgusting, but so is Cochran. And Ito should have recused himself, so I've got no sympathy for him.

Loved, loved, loved Darden going off in the court. Since the case was screwed either way, I kind of wanted him to go for the contempt, but it was smart to back off. At least he and Marcia made up.

If OJ wasn't so full of himself, he would have noticed that he was losing his friend. Kardashian wasn't buying any of that shit.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Spartan Girl

[Jx223]

I thought tonight was another great episode. I will miss this show, time flies by quickly.

 

I thought that everyone did a really good job tonight especially Sterling as Chris Darden. I definitely understood Chris's frustation about the direction the case ended up going.

 

I was glad that Marcia got primary custody of her kids. At least something good happened to her.

 

Also, I hope someone makes a gif of that scene where everyone is giving Fuhrman the stink eye. He really was hated by everyone on both sides.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Jx223

[Eolivet]

Oh. My. God.

 

Was that a TV show or a thriller? My heart was pounding the entire time -- as someone who didn't really remember the case, I was right with Cochran's associates, waiting for the fax. I can't believe it was all real (or...mostly real). I just...wow. Darden really walked out of the courtroom when Fuhrman was called back a second time? And asked for counsel in front of Judge Ito? Dominick Dunne said it best: you couldn't script it better.

 

I have to say, I've enjoyed Sterling Brown as Darden, but this was the first episode where I thought that his name better be on that Supporting Actor ballot next to Travolta, Lane and Schwimmer. He practically stole this episode from Vance, and that is not a small feat.

 

I can't believe there's only one episode left -- now I'm like Robert Kardashian in the corner during that scene with OJ. This has been just incredible television and I will be so sad to see it end.

[AndreaK1041]

I know I'm being stupid, but what did "Shall I take off my watch and jewelry" mean?

I love this show so so much.

[ridethemaverick]

Great episode. I may be in the minority but I empathized with both sides tonight. Johnny was out of line at times (God sent us those tapes, um ok) but I got his passion. Black folks HAVE known this shit all along. It must have felt exhilarating to finally have proof at a time when there were no cellphone and body cameras and the United States consistently gaslighted an entire race of people and insisted they were making shit up for almost 200 damn years. No the trial wasn't about that but I got it.

Moving on, NL was hilarious with that faux southern accent appealing to the southern court. Even Johnnie was impressed.

Darden got some good lines tonight and I really felt for him too. Talk about conflicted.

Ito was sympathetic for me tonight. I wonder if he was upset at his wife for hiding her relationship with Furman.

Great episode all around. I can't believe it's almost over.

[ketose]

Shut the f*** up, Johnnie. "God sent us these tapes"--yes, God wants a man who slaughtered his ex-wife and a stranger to walk. Nailed it! Did God send you brain cancer as well?

I thought that part was pretty ironic. God and Karma really came back after the trial to even the scales.

 

I know he pleaded the Fifth, but didn't Fuhrman claim later that he was doing those interviews as a character for the screenplay? I doubt he did anywhere near the outlaw cop stuff he claimed.

[Umbelina]

I know I'm being stupid, but what did "Shall I take off my watch and jewelry" mean?

I love this show so so much.

no jewelry in jail cells.

[ridethemaverick]

If karma were a factor here, Furman wouldn't be alive and well. Unless God favors racists. Zimmerman's still kicking too so maybe. But yeah, at least Johnnie died a horrible death. Hooray!

[TheOtherOne]

Vanity Fair fact check

 

Vulture fact check

 

Entertainment Weekly recap with additional details

[ShadowHunter]

Fuhrman sucks and he deserved the walk of shame.  I don't know what is going on with him now. I know after the trial he wrote the book Murder in Greenwich about the Martha Moxley murder. Christopher Meloni also played Fuhrman in the movie based of the book.

[drivethroo]

They had, on tape, white police officers beating the hell out of Rodney King. THAT was their Mark Fuhrman tape. Simi Valley jury had their evidence to look at; the OJ jury had theirs.

The prosecution bungled this case from the very beginning but we still blame the jury for being a bunch of idiots. When your star witness pleads the fifth on whether or not they planted evidence, there's a serious problem going on, and it's not with the jury.

[lovinbob]

Fuhrman is scum. Those tapes were disgusting, but so is Cochran. And Ito should have recused himself, so I've got no sympathy for him.

How did Ito not recuse himself. What a freaking circus--Amen, Chris Darden.

 

They are all such terrific actors. Have to say, Travolta is impressing the hell out of me. It's a fairly thankless role, and there's so much to dislike, but he's doing a lot with it, amidst a ton of flashy performances.

 

I had never heard the Fuhrman tapes and wasn't familiar with their contents. I knew he lied about saying the n-word, and that was about it. Having seen him interviewed by Oprah, I'd been somewhat impressed by him in that he seemed smart and had what appeared to be valid critiques of the other detectives, the prosecution, and Judge Ito. Learning what he said tonight absolutely made me sick. Truly, the horror and enormity of it made me forget about Ron and Nicole. I don't know what the right move was, in terms of what the jury should have heard, but releasing it to the public seems like the worst possible decision. 

 

I wonder what a mistrial would have done for the prosecution. 

Edited March 30, 2016 by lovinbob

[ketose]

I read the Vanity Fair fact check. One interesting tidbit is that Peggy York was an inspiration for Cagney and Lacey.

 

Also, the LAPD had to investigate all the incidents Fuhrman talked about in the tapes. Of 29 things he mentioned, 17 never happened to him at all and 12 were mostly related to his racism and sexism rather than police brutality. So, he's apparently a lying racist piece of shit.

[Umbelina]

They had, on tape, white police officers beating the hell out of Rodney King. THAT was their Mark Fuhrman tape. Simi Valley jury had their evidence to look at; the OJ jury had theirs.

The prosecution bungled this case from the very beginning but we still blame the jury for being a bunch of idiots. When your star witness pleads the fifth on whether or not they planted evidence, there's a serious problem going on, and it's not with the jury.

People called the jurors on the Rodney King trial idiots, and much worse things.

 

This wasn't the Rodney King case though, and two horrible wrongs do not make a "right."

[CeeBeeGee]

They had, on tape, white police officers beating the hell out of Rodney King. THAT was their Mark Fuhrman tape. Simi Valley jury had their evidence to look at; the OJ jury had theirs.

 

That is a good point, about the tape. But both juries absolutely sucked. Fuck 'em both.

[Quiet1ne]

Fuhrman sucks and he deserved the walk of shame.  I don't know what is going on with him now. I know after the trial he wrote the book Murder in Greenwich about the Martha Moxley murder. Christopher Meloni also played Fuhrman in the movie based of the book.

He is a regular commentator on FoxNews regarding crime stories including racially charged ones like Ferguson, Mo. 

[alynch]

He is a regular commentator on FoxNews regarding crime stories including racially charged ones like Ferguson, Mo. 

 

That is hilarious. 

 

Someone should put together a list of all the various ways trial participants tried to cash in. Anyone remember that "Lie Detector" reality show that Marcia Clark hosted on Fox in the 90s? Think it only lasted a couple of weeks. I had to google it just now to make sure I didn't hallucinate it.

Edited March 30, 2016 by alynch

[helenamonster]

What a clusterfuck. Or, to use Darden's more court-friendly word, circus. Idk where to even start, except that this all makes for seriously great television.

 

Fucking Ito. Fucking Peggy York, man. Jesus. While watching this episode (and others, but it really stuck out to me in this one), I kept thinking how the outcome of this trial could have been different if even just one thing had changed. If York had been honest and put down that she had known Fuhrman, another judge would have been assigned to the case. Maybe they wouldn't have allowed cameras in a courtroom and it wouldn't have become the spectacle that it did. I know Sarah said in the review that the shot of the court camera and Ito was a little much, but I actually thought it worked. It felt like he was considering less what was his duty as a judge and more of what would make better television.

 

It's incredible (and incredibly sad) how not-outdated the racial aspects of this case are. The protesters. How Cochran would be received by North Carolina judges. This is weird to say but I might feel better about the outcome of this case if it had done anything to improve race relations in this country and force certain institutions to get their shit together, but it didn't.

 

But yeah, I was not familiar with the exact words of the Fuhrman tapes. Holy cow. Whether or not he was lying or it was for a screenplay, it doesn't matter, I don't think. Only someone seriously racist would use the n-word that many times, and with such ease. He was a piece of shit. And he played a huge part in fucking this case up. That's another thing I thought would have led to a different verdict, if the detective who found the glove hadn't been a documented racist.

 

Clark and Darden, man. I enjoy every second that Paulson and Brown are onscreen, no matter what they're doing. But their interactions with each other are electric. Have they ever worked together before? This chemistry, whether it's suggestively romantic or antagonistic, is truly something to behold. And I still shamelessly want them to fuck.

 

Kardashian is Over It. He is Done. He knows.

 

I feel like the episode ending on Clark getting primary custody of her children is leading us towards a resolution for her character where even though she lost the trial of the century and spent months of her life being made a laughingstock on national television, she has her kids and that's all that matters. Which is...a choice I'll let play out (if it even does) before I make a judgement.

 

Marguerite Moreau! I'm surprised we only saw her on camera for half a second. In other threads I know some of us have talked about how we'd like to see this show take on the Manson case, and she played Susan Atkins in the 2004 version of Helter Skelter.

 

I am so bummed that next week is the last episode. I am especially going to miss my new TV boyfriend Sterling.

[VanillaBeanne]

Also, read an article today about OJ book sales increasing due to the shows success. Tobin's sales have increased 900% and Furhman has sold more books in the past two months than he has over the past five years.

This episode was intense. Scene after scene. There were no pop music montages or funny one liners (although, mint juleps and condescension came close). Loved Shapiro and Cochran yelling at each other in the elevator. Watching Darden go apeshit in court was hard to watch.

The show is really portraying Cochran as a true crusader against police brutality, and not just an opportunist using the race card to get OJ off. The scene with his wife was touching.

And Marcia's suits were on point this episode, The performances from everyone continue to rock. Why couldn't they have a 13 episode season?

Edited March 30, 2016 by VanillaBeanne

[Asp Burger]

I remember that big argument about the witness saying he heard a male voice that sounded black, and it made me so angry at the time. Ninety-five percent of the time, when someone cold-calls you, you can accurately guess the race of the person based on the voice. If I heard OJ Simpson's voice yelling, I'd have a good idea it was an African-American man. If I heard Johnnie Cochran's voice, same thing.

 

To claim that that was racism we should have been so beyond in 1995 was just beyond the pale and desperate. He would have elicited the same kind of testimony if it'd been in a client's favor. 

[Crs97]

I have to admit that I did start to laugh when they said Peggy reprimanded him for writing KKK on a Martin Luther King poster. Frankly, I am giggling now. Unbelievable.

To the poster who couldn't remember Peggy's reaction to Furhman's name, she hesitated and looked distressed when she saw it. Ito was turned away from her and did not see her reaction, but he would have known there was a problem if he had been facing her.

[ridethemaverick]

Fuhrman pleading the fifth to the planting or manufacturing evidence question was, to me, the final nail in the coffin for the prosecution. Reasonable doubt wrapped in a bow and handed to the jury.

[alynch]

Fuhrman pleading the fifth to the planting or manufacturing evidence question was, to me, the final nail in the coffin for the prosecution. Reasonable doubt wrapped in a bow and handed to the jury.

 

Yep, that was pretty much the worst possible answer he could give, since it's so non-specific that it gives the jury free reign to question everything. It's impossible to contain a stinkbomb like that. He basically told the jury, "Yep, I planted some evidence in this case, but I won't tell you what. Use your imagination, though. The possibilities are endless!"

Edited March 30, 2016 by alynch

[JakeyJokes]

I was under the perhaps wrong impression that if you Plead the Fifth to one question, you have to for everything. And if that isn't true, Cochran baited him by asking if he was going to Plead the Fifth to everything, Fuhrman says yes, and then -- per the show -- Cochran asks the planting evidence question. If Fuhrman doesn't plead the fifth, he's still a liar.

[drivethroo]

Again, if the defense's story is that LAPD a planted evidence to frame OJ for killing Ron & Nicole, and the prosecution has a witness who says "I'm not going to admit whether or not I planted evidence," the problem is with the prosecution, not the jury.

To say the jury should've convicted OJ when the prosecution witnesses admitted mishandling evidence, harboring racial bias and refusing to say whether or not they planted evidence* is always amazing to me.

*The answer to "Did you plant evidence?" Is a yes or no answer. Preferably, the answer is no. Anything other than a firm NO is a yes.

[alynch]

*The answer to "Did you plant evidence?" Is a yes or no answer. Preferably, the answer is no. Anything other than a firm NO is a yes.

 

I wouldn't go quite that far, but pleading the fifth in response to that question is certainly a pretty big YES, since that's the only answer that would be incriminating.

[Asp Burger]

I thought that part was pretty ironic. God and Karma really came back after the trial to even the scales.

 

Times three (Bailey, Cochran, Simpson himself).  

 

 

I know he pleaded the Fifth, but didn't Fuhrman claim later that he was doing those interviews as a character for the screenplay? I doubt he did anywhere near the outlaw cop stuff he claimed.

 

 

Wasn't there also a bunch of positive stuff about him from coworkers and people involved in his cases? I think when they investigated a lot of those cases he referenced on the tapes, it turned out a lot of it was exaggerated.  

 

Nicole and Ron actually were slaughtered, though. That happened. Oh, that's right, but that was the "Colombian drug lords," over Faye's $200 cocaine tab. Snicker. Hee. Giggle.  

Edited March 30, 2016 by Asp Burger

[Armchair Critic]

"With all due respect I don't think you play as well in Dixie". Nathan Lane is killing it, he makes me laugh!

[Pepperminty]

Can you plead the 5th to select questions? If it's an all or nothing deal, why did Judge Ito let them continue to ask him questions?

This show is so fantastic I'm going to really miss it. Best acting that I've seen in a long time.

They should do a series on the Duke lacrosse team, saw the 30 for 30 special on that trial and it would make fantastic TV.

 

There are just an endless stream of "if only"... Judge Ito's wife, Judge Ito, OJ, his friend in the bronco whom he probably confessed to, the police for sugar coating things for OJ around the arrest and letting the family clear out Nicole's house, Faye,  the jury, the media, the prosecutor, Mark F., Johnnie trying to suppress OJ's "whiteness".

Oh, and I love Dominick Dunne's quips and stunned faces as the camera pans. He's the best.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Pepperminty

[alynch]

Can you plead the 5th to select questions? If it's an all or nothing deal, why did Judge Ito let them continue to ask him questions?

 

Not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that you can selectively plead the fifth on any question you want. It's not an all or nothing deal. The idea of It being a right that you can only invoke pre-emptively just doesn't make any sense.

[AntManBee]

I know its easy pickings to say the jury was stupid or racially motivated in their decision, but this series, if anything, has shown that there was so much reasonable doubt in OJ's defense that no reasonable jury could possibly do anything but acquit him.  We also have to remember that the jury isn't privy to all the same information that we get, but hearing a lead detective in the case plead the fifth in regards to planting evidence leads one to imagine, possibly, much more unscrupulous circumstances than actually happened. 

 

Also, this show is brilliant. 

[Umbelina]

Fuhrman had a lawyer there and he said nothing until the lawyer spoke to him, because of the pending perjury charges.  Of course if he had said "no" the defense would just have said "so you lied about n-----, but now we are supposed to believe you are telling the truth?"

 

The mistake was putting Fuhman on, he didn't even find all the evidence, other cops found most of it. 

[VCRTracking]

Incredible episode. The entire cast was great. The scenes where both Shapiro and Darden exploded in the elevators were intense.

 

"How can you teach screenwriting if you haven't sold a script?"

 

“We’re in the South. Haven’t you noticed the smell of mint julep and condescension?"

"With all due respect, I don't know if you play in Dixie."

 

"This is insane. You couldn't get away with this twist in an airport paperback!"

 

Jesus, Mark Fuhrman was and is beyond garbage.

Edited March 30, 2016 by VCRTracking

[CeeBeeGee]

I'm sorry, I just do not agree that a jury HAD to have found reasonable doubt. I know conventional wisdom is all "this case is about race" but it's really not. Cochran and the jury made the trial about race. But the CRIME--the reason for the trial--is about an ex-wife stalked and murdered by her husband, and a chivalrous young man who had the spectacular bad luck to come across this murder.

 

If Fuhrman's pleading the Fifth is damning, well, then so is OJ's. The guy on the tape screaming at Nicole. The guy who claimed to love her, who loomed over her ostentatiously at the funeral, the guy who beat the crap out of her again and again. The guy Nicole predicted would kill her. Were I on the jury, I would not be able to unhear those tapes. Yes, Fuhrman is a POS racist. But those tapes. Those photographs.

 

Nicole. Ron. The victims. I'm so sick of this case being twisted into anything but those two.

[Bama]

Fuhrman could not pick and choose which questions to answer and which questions to plead the fifth.

 

 

On the advice of his lawyer, Darryl Mounger, Fuhrman said that he would take the 5th Amendment on any question regarding the Simpson case.

 

 

 

Legal analysts said Fuhrman was compelled to take the 5th Amendment, even in response to the provocative question about planting evidence, because breaking his silence would leave him vulnerable to wide-ranging questions. The 5th Amendment offers blanket protection against self-incrimination; witnesses cannot invoke its shield on some questions and then answer others, UCLA professor Peter Arenella said.

Fuhrman, who may eventually face charges of perjury, chose to not answer any question that could open the door to further queries about his actions or prior testimony.

http://articles.latimes.com/1995-09-07/news/mn-43219_1_detective-mark-fuhrman

[BW Manilowe]

I know I'm being stupid, but what did "Shall I take off my watch and jewelry" mean?

I love this show so so much.

So Marcia can go to jail/the lockup when Ito cites her for contempt of court when she was getting involved after Darden stormed out of the courtroom & faced his own (at least possible) contempt charge.

[Lorna Mae]

Wow. I was preoccupied during this part of the trial, so I never knew those tapes were so damning. Having heard them now, I would believe Fuhrman capable anything. I'd believe him capable of killing Nicole himself in order to frame OJ. No, I still think OJ did it, but Fuhrman...how could anyone who'd heard that believe he had any integrity? 

 

When an attorney is held in contempt, what are the consequences? Is he banned from the courtroom, and if so, for how long? Or is it something else? Also, does anyone know what form of reprimand Peggy York gave Fuhrman -- verbal or written? 

 

And finally, when Clark and Darden were in the office, was I the only one yelling, "C'monnnnnnnnnnn...c'mONNNNNNN! Kiss her you fool!"? 

[tearbender]

Is SAG the only major award show with an ensemble award? The show's earned it ten times over.

If karma were a factor here, Furman wouldn't be alive and well. Unless God favors racists. Zimmerman's still kicking too so maybe. But yeah, at least Johnnie died a horrible death. Hooray!

 

But at least Furman doesn't live in a big fancy house, though! Karma.

Edited March 30, 2016 by tearbender

[AntManBee]

I'm sorry, I just do not agree that a jury HAD to have found reasonable doubt. I know conventional wisdom is all "this case is about race" but it's really not. Cochran and the jury made the trial about race. But the CRIME--the reason for the trial--is about an ex-wife stalked and murdered by her husband, and a chivalrous young man who had the spectacular bad luck to come across this murder.

 

I disagree, as I previously posted.  There are plenty of circumstances that allude to reasonable doubt.  Foremost in having a lead detective who has perjured himself in the same court, previously alluded to framing African-Americans, freely using racial epithet, and refuses to deny that he has manufactured/planted evidence in the case.  Then having DNA experts torn apart on the stand doesn't help the prosecution, let alone having a glove that doesn't fit (when suggested the defendant try it on by prosecution, without the explanation of how a leather driving glove should fit, could shrink, or might awkwardly fit over latex gloves).  The suggestion that this was all drug related because of the Colombian necktie/necklace is inconsequential.  The point of the prosecution is to eliminate reasonable doubt, but instead, they opened the prospect of it upon themselves.

 

Anyways, suggesting that Ron was chivalrous means nothing.  From what we've been shown in testimony, or the show, is that he was at the wrong place at the wrong time.  Perhaps he was returning glasses, at the insistence of his employer.  Or, perhaps, he was Nicole's latest, youngest boyfriend of the moment.  I don't exactly see how he was chivalrous beyond and attempt to try and paint him as more of an altruistic victim.  That he was a victim of an extremely vile crime is bad, but there is no need to try and elevate the character of Ron through invalidated accolades. 

[Jade Foxx]

WOW. That episode was brilliant, spectacular, outstanding, and intense. And these comments are so..spot on.

 

Will gather my thoughts to respond to the serious stuff, but ZOMG seeing a cassette tape (and player) made me all verklempt!

[Jade Foxx]

 

There are plenty of circumstances that allude to reasonable doubt.

 

I agree - LEGALLY there was reasonable doubt. Though anyone with half a brain and common sense knew/knows OJ did it.

 

 

Anyways, suggesting that Ron was chivalrous means nothing.  From what we've been shown in testimony, or the show, is that he was at the wrong place at the wrong time.  Perhaps he was returning glasses, at the insistence of his employer.  Or, perhaps, he was Nicole's latest, youngest boyfriend of the moment.  I don't exactly see how he was chivalrous beyond and attempt to try and paint him as more of an altruistic victim.  That he was a victim of an extremely vile crime is bad, but there is no need to try and elevate the character of Ron through invalidated accolades

Ron was the victim of a brutal homicide, no more, no less. Sometimes people like to attach certain "attributes" to a murder victim, to help express their outrage. When my sister was murdered, folks talked about how "stupid" she was to remain with the man who eventually killed her. Sure, she made mistakes and bad decisions, but that doesn't justify being killed. Elevating a victim to sainthood or derision just isn't productive IMO, their loss of life is legitimate enough.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Jade Foxx

[Bryce Lynch]

Fuhrman is scum. Those tapes were disgusting, but so is Cochran. And Ito should have recused himself, so I've got no sympathy for him.

Loved, loved, loved Darden going off in the court. Since the case was screwed either way, I kind of wanted him to go for the contempt, but it was smart to back off. At least he and Marcia made up.

If OJ wasn't so full of himself, he would have noticed that he was losing his friend. Kardashian wasn't buying any of that shit.

I totally agree Fuhrman is scum, so was Cochran, though it was his job to be.

Ito's wife should have been fired at a minimum and perhaps prosecuted along with Fuhrman for perjury and Ito should have declared a mistrial.

Who thought it was a good idea to assign a judge married to a caotain in the LAPD for the trial of the century? I believe it was known well before the actual trial started that the LAPD would be on trial, though not to the extent that it was.

[Umbelina]

Furhman wasn't the lead detective, and he wasn't the first one to see or notice most of the evidence.  Vanatter was the lead detective.  The beat cops who first responded found the footprints and blood drops, the glove, the hat with OJ's hair in it, the bodies, etc.  Fuhrman's partner Brad Roberts found the fingerprint on the gate, and I believe the blood on the Bronco, but they may have found that last together.  Ronald Phillips was the lead detective when they arrived at Bundy, but quickly replaced.  For the record, he also passed two separate polygraph tests later.

 

He was a creepy, but everything he alleged in the screenplay on the tapes was checked out, and he'd never been involved in anything resembling most of them.  He's a complete asshole, but he didn't plant any evidence.  How could he?  He had no idea at all if OJ was giving a speech or having a huge dinner party with 50 witnesses when left Bundy, where presumably he would have had to pick up the glove to plant evidence at Rockingham, let alone grab blood from Ron and Nicole, all under the eyes of other cops and detectives.  14 cops searched for the mate to the glove at Bundy, and didn't find one, long before the detectives arrived.

 

One last thing, people were also outraged at the Rodney King verdict and DID blame the jury for that, so comparing them does nothing that prove neither jury had much respect.