The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[kokapetl]

Wow, that was spun so hard I got whiplash. "His world and that of his family is crumbling beneath his fingers with no light at this time shinning at the end of the tunnel to guide him out and back to the life he, his wife and children enjoyed before the media tore his little world into shreds. It is very sad that the shame is terrifying everyone in his family that loves him and is standing by him through thick and thin." Barf.

I'm going to paraphrase a psychiatrist I once saw, who treated a very famous bankrupt Australian, "I cannot establish whether this is the case, other than to say that on the balance of probability many, if not most, people under the circumstances he faces would be significantly depressed".

[snip]

[Anne Elk]

The Duggars were able and willing to toss Josh overboard when this story broke, and there wasn't really anything that could have saved him. And he knew it, too, thus the disappearing act. I also think he had people at the FRC telling him to go away quietly or face their wrath. Whatever else they may be at the FRC, they are not stupid.

 

But what got Jim Bob's goat was realizing that he was getting criticized too. So he got himself an interview with Fox, and he trotted out his adoring wife and daughters to back him up by spouting the party line. And yes, he made everything worse and probably screwed himself out of his own TV empire.

 

People understand dealing with a black sheep family member. They do not understand letting him molest his sisters for a year after you already knew about it, or pretending that it was nothing because the girls were asleep, mostly, and it was over the clothes, mostly. (When I read the police report I noticed that one of the girls who was interviewed was crying during the questioning and talked about feelings of anger, so clearly someone didn't think it was no big deal.)

 

I've read several scientific papers on sibling sexual abuse and the one risk factor that every single one of them mentioned for this kind of thing is living in a large family where the parents have checked out physically or emotionally and the kids are left to parent each other. Does that ring a bell? And after this happened, the Duggars' response was to nearly double the size of their family to add to their own fame. Clearly no one was getting any kind of serious therapeutic interventions. That's the one thing that makes me feel kind of bad for Josh. They failed him as much as anybody else.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Anne Elk

[3girlsforus]

[snip] I worry about Anna too. She's about to give birth and is probably already emotionally wrecked. Imagine what happens when the postpartum hormones kick in. I wish she had moved near her family for support instead of back to Duggarland.

Edited June 25, 2015 by bigskygirl
Speculating about Josh being depressed and suicidal

[Happyfatchick]

Suz, that's a great question posed. I kinda think the interviews made it stick like glue. Many of us who only thought they were distasteful before turned off the interview saying "whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?????" The interviews almost BECAME the story at that point. In my mind, it's like watching a heavy box fall off a shelf in slo-mo. You KNOW the contents are valuable, but you also know you'll be squashed if you try to stop the fall. I think many (even devoted followers) wanted to stop that box, but weren't quite brave enough to get in the way. Except the Huckster (and look what happened).

I think they truly believed they would put on their "most sincere" faces and bare their hearts. "We did all we could do" and "we tried our best". I honestly believe they had NO IDEA the firestorm it created. Yes, I think it's lasted MUCH longer because of the interviews than it normally would have. EPIC FAIL!!!

Someone posted what they thought might have helped them, and they were right on the money. If the Duggs had said, "we screwed up! We did EVERYTHING backwards" instead of trying to justify or minimize, they may have gotten some measure of positive mileage. Instead, everything they said completely and absolutely cemented everyone in the positions they had BEFORE the story broke. It didn't do anything to sway opinions, but it solidified them.

[bigskygirl]

Once again, please stop with the Josh may be depressed or suicidal. None of us has sat down with Josh to do a psychiatric evaluation. Lets corral this type of speculation and lead the horse into his or her stall before the poor animal collapses from the no proof, we are playing armchair psychology way of thinking. Posts taking the horse out of the barn and into the speculation field will be edited or hidden by the mods. Thank you.

[Aja]

It's kind of shocking if you think about it. Humility is pretty basic (and Christian.) Who in their right mind thinks "It's everybody's fault except ours and Josh's!" is going to go over better than "We made grave mistakes. And we are sorry."? It's like they went on national tv and said "We're so sorry...so sorry YOU'RE AN IDIOT!" They are, among everything else, REALLY, genuinely stupid.

[GEML]

I'm not seeing anything reputable that says they were paid anything close to a six figure number for the interview, let alone seven. They were just as desperate to do the interview as Fox was to have them. That does not make for great negotiation.

[kokapetl]

Frankly I'm baffled that the Duggars have conspicuously put Josh, or allowed Josh, to be front and centre with the social media stuff. He's a hypocritical kiddy diddler, obnoxious and not photogenic. Who the hell can he be appealing to? I watched a 'Kate plus 8' clip show today, and Josh needs to be erased/ignored like Jon Gosselin is. Actually I think TLC need to stop pretending Jon never existed, but Josh absolutely needs to vanish. Anna and the M kids can be salvaged as a 'single mom juggling 4 kids', even if it's a lie.

[dillpickles]

I'm not seeing anything reputable that says they were paid anything close to a six figure number for the interview, let alone seven. They were just as desperate to do the interview as Fox was to have them. That does not make for great negotiation.

Well, yeah. They wouldn't get "paid" to do the interview, but they would get paid to use certain media aspects... like pictures of Josh and the rest of the family. Not sure how much, exactly, but i imagine its a pretty penny.

In cases like this... where you're interviewing someone that can seem morally corrupt, you don't really want word to get out that you *paid* for the interview. But you would pay for things like the pictures used in the interview.

With people like the Duggars, i doubt they'd put themselves out there for cheap.

[kokapetl]

I'm not seeing anything reputable that says they were paid anything close to a six figure number for the interview, let alone seven. They were just as desperate to do the interview as Fox was to have them. That does not make for great negotiation.

I think it's clear that TLC haven't said yes or no to the Duggars, and considering Jim Bob has clearly rejected TLC's PR advice, TLC has allowed him, against their better judgment, to do what he thinks can salvage the Duggar brand. If anyone would be paying for this salvage operation, it would be the Duggars, not Fox News. Fox News may have wanted the Duggar interview to whine about the 'Lame Stream Media', but Rupert Murdoch and Co. know when they have the upper hand, and they fully exploit it. No money to the Duggars.

[zenme]

Someone posted what they thought might have helped them, and they were right on the money. If the Duggs had said, "we screwed up! We did EVERYTHING backwards" instead of trying to justify or minimize, they may have gotten some measure of positive mileage. Instead, everything they said completely and absolutely cemented everyone in the positions they had BEFORE the story broke. It didn't do anything to sway opinions, but it solidified them.

 

This! This is really what (I think) people want to hear, because we all know no one is perfect, and no one is a perfect parent.  Goodness knows that I tried, but I know that looking back there were a lot of things that, given the chance, I would do the same, but there are also things I would do differently.  In any case, I thought I was doing the right thing by my children.  There is no way in hell that I would do anything to intentionally harm them.  I have a lot of friends and family who feel the same about themselves.  For Jim Bob and Michelle to go on national tv and say, "Yes.  We did these things, and I honestly felt we were doing the right thing.  I see now that we were wrong, and along the way, we tried to apply lessons learned and do things differently."  I know that I, for one, would say, "Ok, I get that."  But they didn't do that. They couldn't even admit that they'd made bad choices, and actually minimized what Josh had done! To me, that minimization is the actual "re-victimization" of the girls.  That Duggar ego is killer.

[mbutterfly]

Wow, that was spun so hard I got whiplash. "His world and that of his family is crumbling beneath his fingers with no light at this time shinning at the end of the tunnel to guide him out and back to the life he, his wife and children enjoyed before the media tore his little world into shreds. It is very sad that the shame is terrifying everyone in his family that loves him and is standing by him through thick and thin." Barf.

Typical Examiner creative writing piece. 

[Churchhoney]

Suz, that's a great question posed. I kinda think the interviews made it stick like glue. Many of us who only thought they were distasteful before turned off the interview saying "whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?????" The interviews almost BECAME the story at that point. In my mind, it's like watching a heavy box fall off a shelf in slo-mo. You KNOW the contents are valuable, but you also know you'll be squashed if you try to stop the fall. I think many (even devoted followers) wanted to stop that box, but weren't quite brave enough to get in the way. Except the Huckster (and look what happened).

I think they truly believed they would put on their "most sincere" faces and bare their hearts. "We did all we could do" and "we tried our best". I honestly believe they had NO IDEA the firestorm it created. Yes, I think it's lasted MUCH longer because of the interviews than it normally would have. EPIC FAIL!!!

Someone posted what they thought might have helped them, and they were right on the money. If the Duggs had said, "we screwed up! We did EVERYTHING backwards" instead of trying to justify or minimize, they may have gotten some measure of positive mileage. Instead, everything they said completely and absolutely cemented everyone in the positions they had BEFORE the story broke. It didn't do anything to sway opinions, but it solidified them.

 

I think you're right. And thank God for the interviews then. They solidified for at least some people what Michelle and Jim Bob really are: people who can never ever say, 'We just screwed up.' (despite all the lip service to 'we're not perfect people.') As well as people who are willing to throw their "victim" daughters completely under the bus (without the daughters realizing it, of course) while also making plain that they dictate the script that those adult daughters are somehow induced to just follow along with it, word for word, with their own agency completely squelched and denied. Darned glad they did those interviews. They brought out into the open a lot of the Duggar traits that have been covered up for a decade by the soft-soap nature of their "reality" show.

[Churchhoney]

Well, yeah. They wouldn't get "paid" to do the interview, but they would get paid to use certain media aspects... like pictures of Josh and the rest of the family. Not sure how much, exactly, but i imagine its a pretty penny.

In cases like this... where you're interviewing someone that can seem morally corrupt, you don't really want word to get out that you *paid* for the interview. But you would pay for things like the pictures used in the interview.

With people like the Duggars, i doubt they'd put themselves out there for cheap.

 

I think how much they finally got depends pretty much on who wanted the interview more, though. I know that Fox -- and Kelly, though I can't really imagine why -- really did want it. But I think that Jim Bob was absolutely desperate for it -- although that simply demonstrates what a tone-deaf arrogant ignoramus he is -- so I can't help but think that he really was in the weaker negotiating position. I certainly agree that he would begin bargaining by asking for a lot -- but I still think that Fox was more likely to threaten to end negotiations if he didn't back down from whatever he tried to demand.

[NextIteration]

Didn't FNC pretty much run that crap for a full a weekend?

[SoSueMe]

Didn't FNC pretty much run that crap for a full a weekend?

 

 

Shall we bet now that Josh will debut soon on FOX News?

Well, Fox has had a couple of convicted criminals on air - Ollie North and G Gordon Liddy. So I can see some potential there. Maybe Josh could fashion some sort of point/counterpoint show with the once again pregnant, unmarried Bristol Palin.

[NextIteration]

 once again pregnant, unmarried Bristol Palin.

 

She's working this Quiverful movement from a "modern" angle apparently.

Edited June 25, 2015 by NextIteration

[JoanArc]

She's working this Quiverful movement from a "modern" angle apparently.

Church of Quiverful, Reformed?

[NextIteration]

Church of Quiverful, Reformed?

 

It's really a shame that Letterman retired at this point. :P

[cheatincheetos]

 

 

Well, Fox has had a couple of convicted criminals on air - Ollie North and G Gordon Liddy. So I can see some potential there. Maybe Josh could fashion some sort of point/counterpoint show with the once again pregnant, unmarried Bristol Palin.

Maybe Bristol should audition for the "Teen" Mom franchise, since almost all of those women are over 20 now too.

[Wellfleet]

That got people that would never tune into FNC in the first place?  I think so too!

 

I watched it, and I never watch FoxNews. Even had to look up which channel it was in my region - never programmed it as a "favorite" on my remote when I switched to digital TV 14 years ago.

[Wellfleet]

I think if Jill and Jessa had been the only ones to do the interview and Jim Bob and Michelle had stayed out of it entirely, the entire family would probably be looked at tons more favorably.  Jim Bob and Michelle describing how it was all no big deal because the victims were sleeping  and further discussing how they waited and waited and waited to do anything and then detailing how they punished the victims by  making them take on more child care duty and no longer allowing them to play with their male siblings really screwed it up for all of them.  I mean, it takes a special sort of person to listen to this and think these people are normal and reasonable.

 

If it's just Jill and Jessa coming on and saying essentially what they said ("We were the victims, we've worked through this already, mistakes were made but we've forgiven and moved on and we think y'all should too") the family would probably be enjoying some great summer rerun ratings.  Take note, ladies.  The patriarchy ruined it for you!  Maybe you want to see about disengaging from that patriarchal cult.  

 

Exactly. Boob thought he and Me-chelle would be able to explain the family's side of the story to the general public out there, when in the end the only people they reached with what they said were the leghumpers, people who were with them already. Maw & Paw should have stayed completely out of it.

[Oldernowiser]

Exactly. Boob thought he and Me-chelle would be able to explain the family's side of the story to the general public out there, when in the end the only people they reached with what they said were the leghumpers, people who were with them already. Maw & Paw should have stayed completely out of it.

This is where their hubris bit them in the ass...as well as their narcissism. Maw and Paw believe that THEY are the stars, that the leg humpers all love THEM, and all those kids are just their entourage. They couldn't imagine a scenario where they weren't on camera...I'm willing to bet they wanted to be in the girls' interview, as well.

I would pay big money to know how those strategy sessions went down.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Oldernowiser

[Happyfatchick]

I would pay big money to know how those strategy sessions went down.

Well, that's pretty easy:

PR: all right, here's what we got...

JB: don't need to hear it, people love us

PR: yes, but we need to seal that love and get some lost ground back

JB: we're going public

PR: we think you should lay low...

JB: no

PR: research shows that if you go quiet for awhile...

JB: no

PR: we're not comfortable with the interview...

JB: we're doing it

PR: public perception is everything right now, we have to monitor your approach

JB: no

PR: we're pretty sure you're going to send the wrong message

JB: we're doing it

PR: and there's nothing we say that can deter you

JB: no

PR: okie dokie, that'll be $25,000

JB: i'ma need a discount

PR: no

[roamyn]

So how many Duggar heads just exploded niw that SCOTUS has ruled same sex marriages LEGAL THROUGHOUT THE US!

[Bella]

So how many Duggar heads just exploded niw that SCOTUS has ruled same sex marriages LEGAL THROUGHOUT THE US!

 

After I called and left a congratulatory message for a lesbian couple I'm close friends with, I had this very same thought. And what will the Duggars do? They lost their bully pulpit, Josh's job at Bigots R Us is over, and at best (for them) they'll only be able to reach those who already agree with them.

 

Hee!

[Fuzzysox]

So how many Duggar heads just exploded niw that SCOTUS has ruled same sex marriages LEGAL THROUGHOUT THE US!

Josh is eating  the donut burgers that Anna just recently learned to make  to drown his sorrows. lol

Edited June 26, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Vermicious Knid]

I also wondered if this whole situation hadn't sidelined them, would we be seeing them everywhere supporting the Confederate flag? Couple of pictures of any of them standing next to that flag should finish them off in the public eye. Are there any?

 

Child molestor - Strike one!

Anti gay marraige- Strike two!

Flag supporter? - Strike three!

[JoanArc]

 

I also wondered if this whole situation hadn't sidelined them, would we be seeing them everywhere supporting the Confederate flag?

P&H has on old instagram of Josh's supporting the flag.

[bluebonnet]

So how many Duggar heads just exploded niw that SCOTUS has ruled same sex marriages LEGAL THROUGHOUT THE US!

Scalia's dissent is so crotchety and outrageous that while reading,I kept expecting him to go on a rant about how horrible terrible equality has only happened because we've shunned the Duggars from our TV.  

[Aja]

They're really ignoring some pretty major messages from God. Just saying. :)

[Sew Sumi]

P&H has on old instagram of Josh's supporting the flag.

Yes, I remember that. 

[frenchtoast]

Talking about the Duggars and their political reactions? Fine. Talking about politics and the ruling in general, really not fine. It's off, topic and bound to get bad. Talk about the Duggars and their politics. Talk about the politics and ruling on the 174,254,349 other political websites out there.

[Aja]

Because THEY'RE not the ones judging, silly! Jesus is! (I...think?)

[SometimesBites]

All sorts of Irrational Tribes can be found all over the Internet, shouting in their own echo chambers. It's what it was built for.

Yep, and the posted article admitted as much: "Look, both Republicans and Democrats are guilty of tribalism. It’s human nature to like people who talk and dress and eat like you do, or at least the way you aspire to do those things. Liberals certainly feel their hearts soar when they see someone driving a Prius or hear that their new Tinder date went to Berkeley."

[Julia]

Yep, and the posted article admitted as much: "Look, both Republicans and Democrats are guilty of tribalism. It’s human nature to like people who talk and dress and eat like you do, or at least the way you aspire to do those things. Liberals certainly feel their hearts soar when they see someone driving a Prius or hear that their new Tinder date went to Berkeley."

 

For some reason, the kobe calves of the chattering classes seem to believe that the way to prove you're dispassionate and centrist is to have equally ignorant reductive stereotypes for anything to the left or the right of the Overton window. I always think i've learned more about the writer's opinion of their own social status than about their proximate subject.

[frenchtoast]

Please keep this to the Duggars. If it's not about the Duggars in the Media, it's off topic. 

 

Thanks.

[Sew Sumi]

The Official FB page (not allowed to link?) now quotes 2Chronicles 7.14 (sorry, this is how I notate, learned it in my Bible as Lit class at a real university). It basically implies that the pro-equality people have "wicked ways" and that only prayer can save the land. 

 

Okey doke. It's not surprising. They still manage to feel superior, even though their side was dealt yet another historical blow. 

[Julia]

OK, I think I know who's hoping for the next interview...
 

Josh Duggar and Wife Anna Celebrate Their 7-Year Engagement Anniversary—See the Sweet Pic!
E! Online‎ - 2 days ago

and I could not possibly make this part up, although the emphasis is mine,
 

Things seem to be fine and dandy over on Josh Duggar's end.

The 19 Kids & Counting star, who has been at the center of a huge family scandal, has stayed fairly mum concerning the controversy surrounding his famous family, but did take some time out of his day yesterday to highlight a special milestone shared with his wife Anna.
...

Now they'll have an even ratio of boys to girls! Josh, 26, says he and Anna are open to having "as many children as God will give them," but he doesn't think they'll have a brood quite like Jim Bob and Michelle's.

"I've done the math, and there is no way we can have 20 kids that I can figure," he tells People. "But the reason most people don't have a large family is because they feel the financial pressures. It's tough to have so many kids in today's world."

"Is there pressure? Sure, there is. But one of the biggest blessings is to have kids and teach them to serve God and others and be the best they can be," he added.

[Missy Vixen]

 

Well, Fox has had a couple of convicted criminals on air - Ollie North and G Gordon Liddy. So I can see some potential there. Maybe Josh could fashion some sort of point/counterpoint show with the once again pregnant, unmarried Bristol Palin.

I might actually tune in to watch Josh Duggar debate Bristol Palin. For the LULZ. Then again, the IQ loss from listening to those two morons attempt to construct a sentence is probably not worth it. Well, unless Anna runs on stage and starts a hair-pulling donnybrook with Miss Palin over HER MAY-UN.

 

You know that would be the biggest ratings grabber EVER.

[Churchhoney]

OK, I think I know who's hoping for the next interview...

 

and I could not possibly make this part up, although the emphasis is mine,

 

 

Didn't take his massive oblivious arrogance long to return, did it? Given this, I have a hard time believing all the predictions and concerns that he might be cowering somewhere in shame and devastation over what he's done to his family. This looks like the same behavior he showed in the first special, when he appeared to me to be a cocky little SOB who spent most of his time preening his feathers and took his ignorance for wisdom, even though the taping took place only shortly after the supposedly devastating molestation incidents. I'll give him one thing -- he's got great resilience when it comes to bouncing back from his own effups.

 

Oh, and I'll give him one thing more -- inventing a new concept, the seven-year engagement anniversary. Don't know when I've heard such a transparent bogus excuse for a PR event.

[Julia]

 I'll give him one thing -- he's got great resilience when it comes to bouncing back from his own effups.

 

I"m actually kind of impressed by that, in a backwards way. If I was getting as much of this kind of attention as he is i'd be in a dark room curled up in the fetal position and whimpering pretty much indefinitely.

[Churchhoney]

I"m actually kind of impressed by that, in a backwards way. If I was getting as much of this kind of attention as he is i'd be in a dark room curled up in the fetal position and whimpering pretty much indefinitely.

 

 

Me, too. In this case, though, I'd call that the more appropriate and proportionate response!

[Suzee2]

So how many Duggar heads just exploded niw that SCOTUS has ruled same sex marriages LEGAL THROUGHOUT THE US!

 

Compared to the reactions from other right-wingers, they were pretty subdued -- at least for now.

http://www.examiner.com/article/duggar-gay-marriage-post-slammed-as-being-judgmental-by-followers

 

They even took it as far as to change their profile picture to this photo. This quote is from 2 Corinthians 7:14. It says "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; Then will I hear from Heaven and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." Along with this, they put the post that simply said "Praying for our nation today."

 

[galax-arena]

The Duggars posted this image on their official family facebook yesterday:

 

Accompanied with this caption: "Praying for our nation today."

 

The Duggars would know all about "wicked ways," wouldn't they?

 

ETA: Dangit, Suzee2, you beat me to it. I blame my computer crashing. Clearly my laptop doesn't want me to have anything more to do with the Duggars.

Edited June 27, 2015 by galax-arena

[Julia]

So I asked myself, why would you use a faux-parchment background and a snazzy distressed slab serif font just like a real old bible and then obscure your message with a big horsey old black drop shadow as if the type was floating over the page under a keyllight?

 

And then I went to the site they took it from. Wow. That there is some fervent photoshop work.

[kokapetl]

So I asked myself, why would you use a faux-parchment background and a snazzy distressed slab serif font just like a real old bible and then obscure your message with a big horsey old black drop shadow as if the type was floating over the page under a keyllight?

And then I went to the site they took it from. Wow. That there is some fervent photoshop work.

That picture looks as though it was taken from a wanted poster, with beard and long hair added to illustrate what the Cult Leader on the run may look like now. Edited June 27, 2015 by Kokapetl

[farmgal4]

I"m actually kind of impressed by that, in a backwards way. If I was getting as much of this kind of attention as he is i'd be in a dark room curled up in the fetal position and whimpering pretty much indefinitely.

I would have already constructed the noose and be picking out the tree!

[Missy Vixen]

I"m actually kind of impressed by that, in a backwards way. If I was getting as much of this kind of attention as he is i'd be in a dark room curled up in the fetal position and whimpering pretty much indefinitely.

There are no consequences in life for Smuggar, and there never will be. After all, it's everyone else's fault, isn't it? His parents have ensured that he's grown up as a smug, clueless, uneducated and arrogant male (I refuse to call him a man. A man would take responsibility for his own failures,) and shielded him from all fallout from his actions. He is the carbon copy of his narcissistic, vapid, entitled, grifting parents.

 

He will never suffer. His wife and children will pay an incalculably high price, but Smuggar will still believe it's everyone else's fault, not his.

Compared to the reactions from other right-wingers, they were pretty subdued -- at least for now.

http://www.examiner.com/article/duggar-gay-marriage-post-slammed-as-being-judgmental-by-followers

They're subdued because they know that any overt anti-marriage equality statement might be the straw that broke the camel's back with TLC.

[SoSueMe]

So I asked myself, why would you use a faux-parchment background and a snazzy distressed slab serif font just like a real old bible and then obscure your message with a big horsey old black drop shadow as if the type was floating over the page under a keyllight?

 

And then I went to the site they took it from. Wow. That there is some fervent photoshop work.

 

Egads, shiver my timbers, I am quaking in my boots, that is one scary place.