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The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

Null 302

By Null 302
in Counting On

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As a reminder, the site's Politics Policy remains in effect.  Yes, Jim Bob is apparently running for office again. That does not make it an acceptable topic of conversation in here - unless for some mysterious reason, TLC brings the show back and it is discussed on there. Even then, it would be limited to how it was discussed on the show.

If you have any questions, please PM the mods, @SCARLETT45 and myself.

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SpottedCoachDog

SpottedCoachDog

Or, hell, even if they had simply said, "We've moved past it as a family. I [Jessa or Jill] have forgiven Josh." They didn't need to talk about being confused or traumatized. The problem is that they didn't just stick to their own spiel of forgiveness, they proceeded to minimize abuse and speak for the other victims. And that was a shitty thing to do, and they absolutely deserve to be called out on that. They don't get a free pass just because they were victims.

It took me a long time to come to terms with my own molestation because it was "just" a little bit of touching, it happened years ago, I should just get over it already, etc. And to this day it's not something that I'm forthcoming about IRL because I know that the way the Duggars think is not all that uncommon. I'm just glad that I'm not an impressionable young adolescent anymore who had to hear the Duggars essentially tell me that my abuse was no big deal.

Exactly! It can take many years of soul searching and self forgiveness to come to terms with sexual abuse. Their "No Big Deal" stance can feel like dismissal to an an adult who has had time to work thru it. I can't imagine the confusion it would cause in an impressionable child.

I emailed my disapproval to Discovery and my intent to boycott TLC and any company that advertises on the "specials". The captcha word to submit was "wrong". I take it as a sign.

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cmr2014
cmr2014

I was thinking about this and the idea that the girls weren't "harmed" and weren't "damaged goods" which led me to realize that ALL of the Duggar children are "damaged goods" and I think that's becomi

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

They put themselves on tv and have proclaimed over and over and over and over again that their way of life is the way to ensure that your children are totally safe from every evil of the world, and in

WhitneyWhit
WhitneyWhit

I don't know where to post this but I fucking met Michelle Duggar. Let me set the scene. So my cousin is getting married and we were at a shop looking at dresses here in Kentucky when the Duggars marc

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kokapetl

kokapetl

(edited)

Exactly! It can take many years of soul searching and self forgiveness to come to terms with sexual abuse. Their "No Big Deal" stance can feel like dismissal to an an adult who has had time to work thru it. I can't imagine the confusion it would cause in an impressionable child.

I emailed my disapproval to Discovery and my intent to boycott TLC and any company that advertises on the "specials". The captcha word to submit was "wrong". I take it as a sign.

What kind of message does "the Duggar girls feelings and opinions about their sexual abuse are despicable and shameful" send to other sexual abuse victims who might have similar opinions? If you're not prepared to condemn your family member and parents, don't dare open your mouth or you'll be condemned yourself? A psychiatrist wouldn't condemn a person for coping, why should we? Jill and Jessa were sexual abuse victims and they really, really never wanted this to come to light via tabloid media. They probably now regret saying anything to anyone, to their parents or to the cops. It's bought themselves nothing but scathing criticism. Edited by Kokapetl
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Lemur

Lemur

What kind of message does "the Duggar girls feelings and opinions about their sexual abuse are despicable and shameful" send to other sexual abuse victims who might have similar opinions? If you're not prepared to condemn your family member and parents, don't dare open your mouth or you'll be condemned yourself? A psychiatrist wouldn't condemn a person for coping, why should we? Jill and Jessa were sexual abuse victims and they really, really never wanted this to come to light via tabloid media. They probably now regret saying anything to anyone, to their parents or to the cops. It's bought themselves nothing but scathing criticism.

I think you first point regarding expectations of how victims should feel is very valid.  Everyone reacts (or non-reacts) to things differently.  That's why you have some people wailing and rending garments at funerals and others who sit there stone-faced, or just want to endure it to get through it to the repast.  

 

That said, the whole "didn't want this coming to light", if that's the case, they did a real shit job of making sure that file was sealed up tight and locked away.  Though that's probably more their father's fault for keeping them ignorant and under-educated.  

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galax-arena

galax-arena

(edited)
If you're not prepared to condemn your family member and parents, don't dare open your mouth or you'll be condemned yourself?

You're putting words in other people's mouths. Neither SpottedCoachDog nor I (whom SCD was quoting) said anything about expecting Jessa and Jill to condemn their family. In fact, I said the very opposite, i.e. it would have been perfectly fine if they had said, "We've moved past this as a family and have forgiven Josh." The problem is that they DIDN'T leave it at that, but proceeded to completely dismiss and minimize that sort of abuse in general. This has been said repeatedly; hardly anyone here has an issue with forgiving one's abusers. And for the record, I've forgiven the people who abused me, and yes, in the past that also left me with a whole host of issues because I felt like there was something wrong with me since I didn't hate my abusers and still had/have a good relationship with them. I was/am worried about people thinking that I'm fucked up for not despising them*. So I get what that's like. And I absolutely do not see that happening here. The two situations are not alike at all. ETA: I'm not denying that there ARE people who think that - I have seen some rhetoric about the Duggars' abuse that disturbs me, including some people (not here) who seem positively gleeful about it - but I think you picked a poor quote to respond to because that's not what SpottedCoachDog was saying. Or at least that's how I'm interpreting their comment; I shouldn't presume to speak for SCD because that's not how I roll, my name ain't Jessa. 

 

(Although I'd add that it's legitimate to at least question whether as a general rule victims in that sort of environment are often compelled to forgive those who abuse them. Look at all the shit that's gone down with Douglas Wilson. Being forced to forgive one's abusers can be abusive itself.)

 

* There's a lot of weird cognitive dissonance involved: "Well, the abuse was minimal so it shouldn't bother me anyway, I'm weird for still being bothered by it," versus "[The abuse apparently mattered enough to the point where] I should hate them forever and ever and I'm weird for still loving them." 

Edited by galax-arena
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SpottedCoachDog

SpottedCoachDog

Thank you for the support, galax-arena. I don't think the point you made that I agreed with was taken correctly.

I am not "condemning" Jill and Jessa for "coping". They are adults and can live their lives as they see fit. Or at least as Boob and their "headships" allow them. My issue is this: they made a choice to go on "The Kelly Files" and downplay the situation in an attempt to salvage their television "careers". Jill and Jessa sat in front of a camera and outed themselves. (Yes, people who follow the family or read articles that gave birthdays could guess they were involved, but they removed any doubt.) They want to cry and say "Wahhhh, the media is revictimizing us!!!" in one breath, then state in the next that they only knew it happened because their parents told them it did. Then they chalked it up to teenage hormonal curiosity and state "no big deal", "this and worse happens to practically everybody". As it has been said before, had they chose to say that "yes, it was a terrible thing and we have moved on" that would have been one thing. Instead, they took the opportunity to imply that a little fondle is nothing and we shouldn't be bothered cause they aren't. Whether some of us like it or not, they are role models to some young girls. That is not the proper message to send. I've had 40 years to deal and Jessa's attitude that night was quite frankly offensive. She is free to speak for herself and herself alone.

That said, I wish I believed the girls made the decision to forgive and move on themselves. I think they were told this is what you will do and are, as always, made to follow the party line. Of course, Jill and Jessa are teevee stahs again, so what do I know.

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Itsnotreality

Itsnotreality

Is it possible the Jill & Jessa Specials decision was made by TLC based on the SisterWives heading for imploding to a point where even they can't/won't be filmed? They are just as camera hungry so so don't know what it will take to turn off the cameras, but the current "catfish affair" of Meri among other things that came to light this summer... The timing seems awfully coincidental.

Somewhere - Is there a line where anyone says this isn't worth the impact on my family.... And TLC hedges its bets by bringing the slightly less damaged family back?

I was also kind of suspicious by one of the My5Wives writing on her blog how wonderful TLC was reaching out to them offering therapy etc when it came out (after their show had been cancelled) that two of the wives had been abused when they were young. Somehow I see TLC as sniffing around for an update special (woo hoo, hurt, pain, secrets, scandal!) not being a generous former employer.

I don't know. Sometimes I think TLC needs to cut all these families loose. So much damage has been done.

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MarysWetBar

MarysWetBar

I just posted something very similar in the SW forum. Its really only a matter of time before one of these reality "stars" puts a bullet in their brain.Josh would be my guess for the Duggars but it could be any of the molested daughters as well. And as far as the whole "fondled only"schtick...let us never forget there was a six year old CHILD with her brother's hand up her skirt. Slyyyyy indeed. :(

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kassygreene

kassygreene

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It's been my impression that these specials will be carefully scraped from the series that was abandoned, with additional footage around Jessa's delivery, and possibly some Dillard stuff.  I also think that they've all gone internet-silent because they are now under contract.  I think this is an attempt by TLC to salvage something from a season's worth of film.  And I think it's all cynically disgusting.

 

So naturally I'm checking this forum at least three times a day.

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Cherrio

Cherrio

I'm predicting a People cover once Josh is released from "therapy". I can see it now, 'Josh Duggar: Changed Man'.

He will be a changed man.   Spending the last few Friday nights watching those services, listening to the people who run the program?   Josh will probably have a drug habit and if he hangs with Cisco, his weight will be spiraling out of control.     Smoking crack in between new trips to the buffet at Golden Corral.

I was just channel surfing and caught the last seconds of Dr. Drew talking about Josh.

          He was saying to Josh, you cannot pray your way out of your problems.   The guest was talking about what a joke the treatment program was.

 Anyone see the whole thing?

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Lemur

Lemur

The totally cynic, potential cult-leader/media mogul part of me can see how Josh Duggar: Changed Man would make compelling television for the Evangelical crowd.  It's a story of repeated failures and possible redemption.  It has all the makings of a real-life Prodigal Son tale and I'm pretty sure Kirk Cameron was in a movie similarly themed (hell, I think the Duggars may have been extras).  That said, the sensible part of me that still retains at least part ownership of my soul sees through it as a money-grab on the part of just about everyone involved.  Though I will say I'm kinda terrified that any attempts by TLC to but him back on the air won't be met with the torches and pitchforks I believe it would deserve.

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Aja

Aja

 He hasn't been able to broker a marriage at all for Jana, and except for Marjorie, who cut bait and ran, we haven't heard much about young women interested in courting his unmarried sons. 

I can't imagine too many fathers, no matter how fundy, who would willingly let their daughters enter into a lifelong bond with any of those boys now. Their only hope is Satanic secular girls who understand psychology and family dynamics and disadvantaged childhoods. 

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Julia

Julia

And I bet JimBoob is quietly seething. He killed his own political career more than a decade ago when he challenged Arkansas' incumbent US Senator in a primary and failed. His first born son went off to DC to carry the mantle of righteousness and hate into the political wars - and before long said firstborn son blew up the Duggar family's TV gravy train along with his own career. 

 

You know, the Hutchinson family must be practically incandescent with schadenfreude at this point.

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JoanArc

JoanArc

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/josh-duggar-sex-abuse-scandal-second-porn-star-rough-sex/

 

 

“A second porn star is saying she also hooked up with Josh and had a bad experience, too,” a source told the publication, adding that she’s threatening to “go public” with her account.

 

“The second porn star had a similar experience,” an insider told In Touch. “Josh was also rough with her. He’s a monster with what he did to these women and the embarrassment he’s caused his family.”

Oh, lawd yes. Nuke those specials!

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Lemur

Lemur

 

See, that's the crazy thing about all of this.  When Josh eventually emerges from whatever Saddam-esque spider hole in which he is hiding, it will be as a New Man, Washed Clean of Sin and Made Whole Again.  So he could have had rough sex with a hundred porn stars and kept goats in his special red room and it won't matter to their core audience.

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lookeyloo

lookeyloo

See, that's the crazy thing about all of this.  When Josh eventually emerges from whatever Saddam-esque spider hole in which he is hiding, it will be as a New Man, Washed Clean of Sin and Made Whole Again.  So he could have had rough sex with a hundred porn stars and kept goats in his special red room and it won't matter to their core audience.

Yup.  "Cured Josh" with Anna gazing adoringly up at him.  

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JoanArc

JoanArc

See, that's the crazy thing about all of this.  When Josh eventually emerges from whatever Saddam-esque spider hole in which he is hiding, it will be as a New Man, Washed Clean of Sin and Made Whole Again.  So he could have had rough sex with a hundred porn stars and kept goats in his special red room and it won't matter to their core audience.

I think we all agree - RU won't do ANYTHING to help Josh, yes? Even if there is a redemption tour, I give him 12-18 months max, likely much less, before he slips back into his old routine. He's just learning how to wear a better mask. No way is he gonna stop the ol' uges.

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Missy Vixen

Missy Vixen

I think we all agree - RU won't do ANYTHING to help Josh, yes? Even if there is a redemption tour, I give him 12-18 months max, likely much less, before he slips back into his old routine. He's just learning how to wear a better mask. No way is he gonna stop the ol' uges.

I'm not giving him even that long. After all, imagine the additional opportunities now that everyone knows exactly what he's been up to. Well, what we know at this point...

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SometimesBites

SometimesBites

(edited)

See, that's the crazy thing about all of this. When Josh eventually emerges from whatever Saddam-esque spider hole in which he is hiding,

Joshie in the spidie hole--what a great visual. I'd like to see that footage: Josh staggering into the daylight looking like Tom Hanks in Castaway.

...it will be as a New Man, Washed Clean of Sin and Made Whole Again. So he could have had rough sex with a hundred porn stars and kept goats in his special red room and it won't matter to their core audience.

Nope. In fact it will only make the leg-humping faithful love him all the more. Edited by SometimesBites
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birkenstock

birkenstock

(edited)

I want one of the other kids to tank the parents further as a whistle blower. I would love it if it was Joseph and Jinger as a tag team. They'd never see Joseph coming and he's old enough to know about most of what went on.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Jim Bob tried pushed Josh to do a redemption tour to save face. The only way I'd want that to happen is if he actually answered real questions from a reputable journalist or have Nancy Grace surprise him on air.  I don't think that Josh has the drive or courage to publicly own up to his actions and make real change.

 

Other than to get viewership and money, I don't understand how the media could go along with the 6 months in prayer jail changing Josh. I know that's all the media cares about, it just makes me angry that Josh will get a public platform again.  He'd be better off in coming back to public life in five years and showing that he's changed and remorseful for his actions as a child molester or "inappropriate toucher" and philanderer.

Edited by Cocka doodle dont
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Missy Vixen

Missy Vixen

Pretzel logic, the whole Fundie package.

It's always been that way, it's always going to be that way. Their standards of "correct" behavior are impossible for anyone to live up to. Rebellion is the least of the acting out that happens, and the wreckage many leave behind when they can't deny themselves any more makes what happened in the Duggar family look like child's play.

 

Of course, IMHO, YMMV.

-Former Fundie

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

 

Other than to get viewership and money, I don't understand how the media could go along with the 6 months in prayer jail changing Josh. I know that's all the media cares about, it just makes me angry that Josh will get a public platform again.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think the media that mostly covers the Duggars cares about reason any more than the Duggars do. They'll "report" the Josh swill for basically the same reason as FRC hired him -- He represents hits on their ad-bearing pages by a demographic they otherwise find hard to reach. It's disgusting. Of course I have a feeling that if Josh did wait some years to came back and came back supposedly remorseful, it'd all be a lie anyway. I think he's pretty dyed in the wool, despite these every-few-years mad repentances he's engaged in.

Edited by Churchhoney
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lulee

lulee

I wouldn't be surprised if Jim Bob tried pushed Josh to do a redemption tour to save face. The only way I'd want that to happen is if he actually answered real questions from a reputable journalist or have Nancy Grace surprise him on air. I don't think that Josh has the drive or courage to publicly own up to his actions and make real change.

on top of that, he may not actually be remorseful and would likely drip with insincerity as well as the creepiness he's displayed in some Talking Heads. We're not talking a Hugh Grant-type who can charm people into changing their view of him. Even a softball interview that went "well" would probably be terrible.
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Julia

Julia

The problem for Josh is that if anyone is even slightly interested in playing gotcha at this point - and let's face it, even Megyn Kelly couldn't quite bring herself to simulate any sympathy for Josh - his repertoire isn't that big, and there is just so. much. footage. of him out there to work with. Anything he could possibly say to communicate what a changed totally different came to Jesus for reals this time polar opposite not that guy he is now, they have footage of him saying exactly the same thing while he was evading prosecution for molesting his sisters / trolling online porn / asking the wife who gives him sex on demand while raising his ballooning household full of children to be frugal so he can finance his adultery / roughing up the porn actresses he barebacks with.* 

 

*And, not to beat up on sex workers myself, we're talking about unprotected sex with someone who makes their living having sex with people they don't know who also make a living having sex with people they don't know who is willing to have unprotected sex with people they don't know. Seriously, only someone who thinks his sisters were at fault when he turned them into cups of spit could possibly think that was a good idea.

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floridamom

floridamom

IMO, the only way TLC should air a special about the Duggars, ANY OF THEM, is a special that shows an in depth, truthful look at the belief system this family belongs to and to show who they actually are and how they really live their lives. By that I mean, not edited fake footage, as we have been seeing these years, but real life non-fiction interviews with people who have experienced this type of belief system and lifestyle...I'd like to hear what they really believe about females, males, and how they differ in their circle. Dish up some actual truth, TLC about this "cult-like" religion; as I would tune in to learn some thing. (In keeping up with the TLC network name).

More fluff about these two girls, and/or their parents would be TLC packpeddling their decision to cancel.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

 

More fluff about these two girls, and/or their parents would be TLC packpeddling their decision to cancel.

 

Which is what it is, right? .... In my perfect world, "reality" tv would mean "documentary." But we are so not living there.

 

I wonder how they'll label it and whether it'll be clear at some point that they're just simply taking up with the Duggars again.

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Lemur

Lemur

Grain of salt required for this one:

 

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2015/10/06/jim-bob-duggar-may-appear-on-jill-and-

 

In short, I don't think any of us thought JimBlob wasn't going to attempt to hijack the Duggar Brides specials.  But ... if sources are correct and he really did try to shut down production, is anyone really shocked?

JoanArc

JoanArc

Grain of salt required for this one:

 

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2015/10/06/jim-bob-duggar-may-appear-on-jill-and-

 

In short, I don't think any of us thought JimBlob wasn't going to attempt to hijack the Duggar Brides specials.  But ... if sources are correct and he really did try to shut down production, is anyone really shocked?

 

 I get the feeling TLC initially tried to negotiate with Jim Bob, who nixed the deal because he wasn't going to be on camera. They let the Duggars sweat it out int he awful real world for awhile, then went straight to the adult daugthers, negotiated, and get the specials easily enough.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

 

ETA: People always say that the Bates seem so much more spontaneous and likable compared to the Duggars. If the Duggars ever jump ship to UpTV, it will be interesting to see if they suddenly appear more spontaneous and likable thanks to better editing. 

 

I'm sure they would, although I don't know that I'd call that better editing -- just editing for a different purpose. TLC is supposed to be about outlandish, freakshow-ish situations that make you say, Ohmygosh what's that about? And UP is supposed to be about inspiring wonderful Christian families you should aspire to emulate. So Josie licking the counters and Jim Bob's mini-golf humpmobile would have to go.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

Though I think the actual show title would have to be something like "Duggars Courting."

 

Because the icky and tricky thing about any "19 Kids . . ." title, is that the oldest "kid" is --- Josh. Could they figure out an opening bit that  didn't run through the list of kids, so as to avoid the child-molesting adulterer porn-hound elephant in the middle of the room? I mean, I thought the whole significance of the 19 Kids is that Michelle delivered every one.

 

OTOH, keeping "19 Kids" in the title would be fabulous, incredibly rich joke fodder.

 

Duggar Dung: A Shitload of Courtships

 

Because that'll be about the size of it.

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JoanArc

JoanArc

http://m.nwaonline.com/news/2015/oct/06/judge-records-related-duggar-911-call-open-under-f/

 

 

Records related to a 911 call from the Jim Bob Duggar residence and related letters from a juvenile judge to Springdale city officials are subject to release under a Freedom of Information Act, Circuit Judge Beth Storey Bryan ruled Tuesday afternoon.

 

So the ruling's been overturned and the 911 call is going to be made public. Guess we'll find out what that was all about, and who the minor was. It's been nothing but shitty stories ever since the TV show came back. Maybe God is trying to tell them something?

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Guest

As a reminder, the site's Politics Policy remains in effect.  Yes, Jim Bob is apparently running for office again. That does not make it an acceptable topic of conversation in here - unless for some mysterious reason, TLC brings the show back and it is discussed on there. Even then, it would be limited to how it was discussed on the show.

If you have any questions, please PM the mods, @SCARLETT45 and myself.

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