The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[Dejana]

People Magazine spoke to an expert who wasn't impressed with the safeguards:

 

When it comes to keeping children from sitting on laps or hugging or kissing relatives in greeting, "kids need to express their own feelings about greeting people and it may be based on their experience, not your own," adds Dr. Wyatt.

 

Furthermore, limiting certain games – such as hide-and-seek – doesn't get to the heart of the issue. "You need to sit down and talk to your kids about what is appropriate and inappropriate behavior," says Dr. Wyatt, because abuse takes many forms – "sometimes as a game" devised by the perpetrator – and "you can't just identify one particular game because then you might miss four others."

 

Essentially, Dr. Wyatt stresses communication and supervision as opposed to arbitrary-seeming guidelines in an attempt to limit certain behavior.

[Sew Sumi]

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe they are waiting until after the Jessa and Jill interview tomorrow night.

Which means we won't hear anything from them until Monday, at the earliest. They have to gauge response to that interview.

[Julia]

I said in the pre-Kelly File speculation thread right before it closed - if these women have truly made the choice to forgive their abuser, that is their right, their agency and I fully support it. But I will always worry if it was a choice. Because what we do know from the Duggars' publicly stated beliefs (and their "parenting" books) is that they require their children to hug the person who "offended" them when an apology is given. Whether they want to or not. (They have said "we MAKE the child hug them.") We know that they believe that forgiveness is a requirement of their version of Christianity and failure to do so probably means hell because failing to forgive now means YOU'RE sinning against God. Would adolescent and prepubescent children raised this way actually see NOT forgiving as a legitimate choice they could make? I have a hard time imagining they would, or even could. We'll never know, and I truly hope that if they do forgive, it was freely and knowingly given, but I can't dismiss 15-20 years of parenting and how they were "trained" to look at the world and not think that probably played a HUGE role.

 

This. If free will isn't an option, I think it's safe to assume that free will hasn't been exercised. I certainly hope that the young women involved are at peace with what happened, and I hope that they haven't internalized the message of their parents' words and deeds that they were responsible for their own victimization and the trouble it brought to their house. 

 

If that did happen, though, it would be because they don't believe what they were taught about men and women and sex. Which, good on them, but they're still publicly supporting it. And I do them the courtesy of thinking they're sincere about that too.

[Albanyguy]

Maybe they are waiting until after the Jessa and Jill interview tomorrow night.

 

 

I think that TLC made the decision to cancel 19K&C a while ago. Possibly they held off on making the final call until after the Megyn Kelly interview the other night, but I'm sure they had already faced the fact that the show had to go. The people at TLC have to know the Duggars pretty well after all these years and I can't believe they were holding onto much hope that Jim Bob and Michelle would be intelligent and articulate (and honest) enough to turn the tide of public opinion around for themselves.

 

But I think TLC was probably hoping that they'd do well enough so that a spin-off with Jill, Jessa and their husbands was still a possibility. And I think THAT is the reason they haven't officially cancelled yet. They were hoping that they would be able to placate the show's remaining fans and keep the gravy train running by making a double announcement: "It is with deep sadness that we are ending our relationship with Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, but in our commitment to helping this troubled family heal, we are proud to annouce the debut of a new series starring Jill Dillard and Jessa Seewald, following these exceptional young women as they explore their exciting new lives as wives and mothers". With no mention of Josh and with "Duggar" dropped from the girls' names.

 

If I'm right about this, then tonight will be the final nail in the coffin for the Duggars. If the girls come off as evasive and rehearsed as their parents (and despite my very real sympathy for them, I think that they will) it's over. And even if they come off as genuine and elicit support from viewers, it's still over. Who's going to feel comfortable watching a lighthearted show about the romantic hijinks of a pair of newlyweds when we all know about the elephant in the room?

Edited June 5, 2015 by Albanyguy

[doodlebug]

Both Good Morning America and The Today Show ran features on the aftermath of the Duggar interviews, both used their legal experts to comment.  It was not pretty.  Both emphasized the parents' minimization of what happened as well as their defense of their son at the expense of their daughters.  Lisa Bloom at NBC specifically pointed out that their entire interview focused on Josh and what they did to protect him back in the day and that the interview made it clear that that is still the priority today.  She asked pointedly why it was that the parents and his victims were still protecting Josh who is apparently not even supposed to face direct media scrutiny to explain himself now.  Dan Abrams emphasized that Jim Bob's feeble attempt to avoid tagging Josh as a pedophile was legalistic BS and not at all helpful.  They both ran excepts from the next interview where Jessa asserts that, as a victim, she is the only one who can call Josh a child molester or rapist and 'that is going overboard'.  Both commentators expressed nothing but sympathy and concern for the girls and thinly veiled contempt for JB and Michelle.  As it should be.

 

News reporters, they're just like us!

[Fuzzysox]

Get Nancy Grace and Lisa Bloom to interview the Duggars. Now that's an interview I would watch it. I think those two would pull the truth out of them.

[Fuzzysox]

John Underwood, who's wife helps run Recovering Grace, is on Dr. Drew right now.

I was disappointed in him. He had the opportunity to push Bill Gothard under the bus but said basically nothing.

Also the AR State Sen. that was a Boob clone kept saying the police report was obtained illegally. UGH The Duggars has the right to sue etc.

[GEML]

The thing is, people leave cults as young adults EVERY DAY. Even Gothard. Several of Anna's siblings have done it. The Duggars have family that they interact with on the show who aren't in it. If they stay in the cult, at some point you have to allow people to stay. In America, people have the free will to be foolish, but to say they have no choices is treating them as lesser human beings. I can't do that. They've had ten times the opportunities, the connections and several of them have shown strong temperaments - at some point you have to say they stay because they want to stay and they thoughts and feelings are valid.

[Skittl1321]

Also the AR State Sen. that was a Boob clone kept saying the police report was obtained illegally. UGH The Duggars has the right to sue etc.

It certainly seems to be an uncertainty.  There are unbiased expert opinions on both sides.  Courts will have to decide who is right.

[Julia]

It certainly seems to be an uncertainty.  There are unbiased expert opinions on both sides.  Courts will have to decide who is right.

 

I very much doubt that the courts are ever going to get anywhere near the question. There's no way the Duggars' crisis counselor (funny how quickly they called in a professional this time around) is going to let them sue and give lawyers a crack at putting him on the record during discovery.

 

The police sought legal advice, like they were supposed to, and were told they had to release the documents. The point of the fuffle about the released documents is to do exactly what it did - give people who don't want to talk about what Josh did something else to focus on. 

Edited June 5, 2015 by Julia

[NextIteration]

Erin Merryn was on Ed's show on MSNBC yesterday.  She goes out of her way to be kind to the Duggars but she said yesterday that she's been in contact with the family since this story has broken, talking to them daily trying to help them through this - all the while telling them that they completely messed this up from the get go.  That Josh should have been out of the house at the first report of trouble, and that all of them needed immediate therapy.

 

I kind of have to give this to the Duggars, a wee bit, they went to the trouble of inviting her into their home to talk to the little ones so that they knew what to do and it seems like they really did want to tap their homeschooling network for her so that she could talk about Erin's Law and the ramifications of child predators within a family or close family relationships.  I think that shows some remorse on their part - it's a shame that they didn't act on that in all ways.  Of course, most of the points get taken away with Josh's employ at the FRC and JimBob and Michelle's horrific politicking, the arrogance and hypocrisy is astounding.

Edited June 5, 2015 by NextIteration

[graefin]

People Magazine spoke to an expert who wasn't impressed with the safeguards:

This is basically what I had been thinking about Jim Bob and Michelle's piss-poor parenting. They simply try to make it impossible for certain behavior to occur instead of teaching (or "training," to use their terminology) them right from wrong. It makes total sense, though, when you consider that their upbringing is steeped in deep discouragement of logical, critical thinking. Otherwise, their other precepts make no sense.

Edited June 5, 2015 by graefin

[wanderwoman]

Get Nancy Grace and Lisa Bloom to interview the Duggars. Now that's an interview I would watch it. I think those two would pull the truth out of them.

Nancy Grace did a full hour on this last night and, not surprisingly, she just annihilated Boob and Michelle. She had on Allison Angrim (Nelly, from Little House) who went off on how wrong it was for the Duggars to try manipulating themselves as victims.

[Churchhoney]

Here's something else I never thought I'd say. Piers Morgan FTW:

 

'They made this assertion: ‘Similar things happen in other families’. Really? I’m struggling to think of a single other family where a serial child molester has not only got away with his crimes thanks to his parents’ deceit, but has then been made a TV star by the same parents in a show extolling the virtues of family values.'

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3111528/Piers-Morgan-19-disgusting-things-learned-Duggars-TV-interview-counting.html#ixzz3cDC5ltkK
 

Of course, it's perfectly possible this has happened to someone else and we just haven't found out about it yet. But still ....

[Skittl1321]

Well, maybe not the TV star thing.

 

But if you consider that the head of their church system has child molestation charges, the officer they originally had talk to Josh has child porn charges; perhaps sexual abuse of minors is just so rampant in their community they have no idea that it is a HUGE problem.

[Seashell Lover]

The link works for me

[Jellybeans]

I wonder how they knew it happened it other families...and how do you avoid reporting the crimes of the family? I mean how do they find each other? are there that many, and why?

[graefin]

Interesting transcript of portions of the interview along with commentary: http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2015/06/05/exclusive-duggars-respond-to-their-critics-on-kelly-file/

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I wonder how they knew it happened it other families...and how do you avoid reporting the crimes of the family? I mean how do they find each other? are there that many, and why?

 

UM they made it up.....? just sayin'

[satrunrose]

 

But what if all five went on camera and said they were ok. Not happy about it, but had put it behind them and they were less happy about it being brought out in public like this? Is that a valid opinion, or is that just brainwashing too? Because we don't know if they are "brainwashed" or if they legitimately feel that way. We have no way of knowing. But I find it fascinating that we all think we know.

 

I think I would be much less angry if they went on camera with a statement like "Twelve years ago we went through a bad/challenging/difficult/horrible experience that no one should ever have to live through. However, with God's grace, we have been able to move on and enjoy the rich/happy/blessed lives we have today. We hope you will join with us in focusing on the future rather than the past." No minimization of what happened and no defending Josh. Josh shouldn't even be mentioned in such a statement. I'm pretty sure that isn't what we'll be seeing tonight, though, so I stand by my righteous indignation. 

[sigmaforce86]

Buzzfeed has a pretty good article by a former-fundie (but not gothard) women on why these shows can be harmful to women

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/sarahjones/how-tlcs-fundamentalism-as-kitsch-hurts-women#.bslMjENAx

[Absolom]

I wonder how they knew it happened it other families...and how do you avoid reporting the crimes of the family? I mean how do they find each other? are there that many, and why?

If they do know that many families, that is very scary and makes me wonder even more about the people in their group.  I don't think I know any families who have had an incest problem. 

[Jellybeans]

If they do know that many families, that is very scary and makes me wonder even more about the people in their group.  I don't think I know any families who have had an incest problem.

You said it better.

[Fuzzysox]

Buzzfeed has a pretty good article by a former-fundie (but not gothard) women on why these shows can be harmful to women

http://www.buzzfeed.com/sarahjones/how-tlcs-fundamentalism-as-kitsch-hurts-women#.bslMjENAx

TLC cares about profit above all else. Yep, pretty much. Edited June 5, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Gianthambeast]

Nice to see someone willing to speak the truth, instead of just spouting party talking points.  Palin, take note:

 

Greg Gutfeld

Edited June 5, 2015 by Gianthambeast

[NextIteration]

Nice to see someone willing to speak the truth, instead of just spouting party talking points.  Palin, take note:

 

Greg Gutfeld

 

I cannot begin to enumerate the many ways I despise this person - but he told it like it is on this topic.  The many that have including Michael Reagan deserve our praise.

[DangerousMinds]

TLC - just cancel the whole thing already. NO spin offs.

[Missy Vixen]

If they do know that many families, that is very scary and makes me wonder even more about the people in their group.  I don't think I know any families who have had an incest problem. 

I've known one. In my former fundamentalist church.

 

Again, Jim Boob, it's time for you to name names, or at the very least, call the cops and alert them to all those "families" who claimed the same thing was going on at their houses. WWJD?

[ginger90]

I've known one. In my former fundamentalist church.

 

Again, Jim Boob, it's time for you to name names, or at the very least, call the cops and alert them to all those "families" who claimed the same thing was going on at their houses. WWJD?

But...............Jim Bob isn't a mandated reporter................

[Churchhoney]

Good brief summary, with links to additional pieces and some good comments below, from Homeschoolers Anonymous:

 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/06/04/a-homeschool-alumnas-thoughts-on-megyn-kellys-interview-of-the-duggars/

[Wellfleet]

In case anyone is dying to know what Bristol Palin's thoughts on the scandal were. 

 

Nope - but thank you for offering. :>) 

[Jusagirlintheworld]

Has this been posted yet?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/06/05/it-is-long-past-time-to-dump-the-duggars/

It seems to be a different viewpoint from Fox News.

[Potato511]

Hey Mods, have you considered a separate (non-Duggar) thread for links about prevention & treatment of childhood sexual abuse (maybe also to include sexual assault generally), survivor experiences, support, etc.? I realize it would go against the rules, just wondering, cuz yeah, this whole situation is unprecedented, and this little online community is pretty cool. Anyway, this is a good one:

 

https://hareachingout.wordpress.com/2015/05/30/how-to-respond-to-sibling-abuse-as-a-parent-or-caretaker/

[graefin]

Did the Duggars dig themselves into a PR hole? (video) ("It just shows a total ignorance of what sexual abuse and molestation and the ramifications of that on a person's life; it shows a complete lack of intelligence in talking about those issues in general, but the fact that they're victimizing themselves goes to the point of how desperate they seem to maintain this fame career, this public image, this platform that they've been given to sort of to expound on their values and extreme Christianity, and, again, an insensitivity to the victims, which are their daughters."):

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/06/05/duggar-family-speaks-out-sot-ac.cnn

[Julia]

I was never sure that Fox was on the Duggar train anyway. I think they did what they set out to do - injected enough factoids about media bias into the dialogue about the fallen darlings to give some plausible deniability to any candidate who got their picture taken with Josh or campaigned with the Duggars. Misssion accomplished. It's nothing new. It's just that unlike the Palins, the Duggars got the house and the show first.

[Missy Vixen]

I read this article late yesterday afternoon. I recommend that you all give it a look, too, especially the last question. The last question should make Jim Boob leave a load in his pants, IMHO.

 

After Jessa Blessa's comments last night, I think they just doubled down.

 

http://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/television/2015/06/04/19-questions-gay-journalist-who-brought-down-duggars

[Patrizio]

That was a good article, I didn't know that he was involved in taking down John Edwards. I'm from Chapel Hill, NC and there had been rumors about him for years(Edwards), being a terrible womanizer. I do agree that calling the media conglomerate purveyors of porn has probably opened up a floodgate of cash to refresh people's memories of this clans history. Good. I do feel sympathy for these girls, because they are lost souls in my opinion. Also, Anna Duggar and their children. I do hope that CPS steps in and follows this family for awhile.

[Missy Vixen]

That was a good article, I didn't know that he was involved in taking down John Edwards.

Those of us who were around when dinosaurs roamed the earth remember that the John Edwards story started out slowly and picked up speed as the Enquirer dug up more and more of the dirt in question. And there was a hell of a lot of dirt. The last sentence of the Advocate article was a warning if I've ever read one.

 

Jim Boob and his family have lost their minds if they think they can go up against journalists who have a virtually unlimited amount of cash for investigations and are working with a "team".

[Julia]

Those of us who were around when dinosaurs roamed the earth remember that the John Edwards story started out slowly and picked up speed as the Enquirer dug up more and more of the dirt in question. And there was a hell of a lot of dirt. The last sentence of the Advocate article was a warning if I've ever read one.

 

I was around when dinosaurs roamed the earth (some time around seven thousand years ago, wasn't it?), and I also remember that there was a very strong theory at the time that the Enquirer was fed quite a bit of that story by a rival campaign.

 

Which, I have to say, makes me wonder, since candidates like Huckabee and Santorum have a disproportionate effect on the primaries, where only voters registered to a particular party can vote, and generally only the most ideologically fervent voters do. And lo and behold, before the primaries really have a chance to get started, a story comes out about a family which has endorsed both for president in the last two elections. 

 

Things which make you go hmmmmmm...

Edited June 6, 2015 by Julia

[JoanArc]

 

The last sentence of the Advocate article was a warning if I've ever read one.

 

Jim Boob and his family have lost their minds if they think they can go up against journalists who have a virtually unlimited amount of cash for investigations and are working with a "team".

I took it that way too. They're dangling the other shoe, waiting to let it drop....

[Churchhoney]

I read this article late yesterday afternoon. I recommend that you all give it a look, too, especially the last question. The last question should make Jim Boob leave a load in his pants, IMHO.

 

After Jessa Blessa's comments last night, I think they just doubled down.

 

http://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/television/2015/06/04/19-questions-gay-journalist-who-brought-down-duggars

Whoa!

I haven't seen this Gawker piece posted -- on Gothard-y counseling and the Little Rock center, so here it is. Sorry if I missed it somewhere:

 

 

http://gawker.com/the-truth-about-josh-duggars-sham-cult-center-counseli-1709335574

 

"So instead of giving those in need of counseling the—by their own admission—“right” information, the counselors of IBLP are trained to give those in need...no information. Instead, all that likely got instilled in Josh was a deep sense of self-loathing and some wildly inaccurate science. IBLP, on the other hand, got some free labor for whatever construction might have popped up as well as the cost of admittance."

 

Includes a document on the Hobby Lobby family gifting it to Gothard.

[b2H]

I may have missed this, but I could have sworn in all the runup to the initial interview, there was supposed to be some big announcement.

Is it fair to assume that the big announcement was the Friday session with the marrieds??

Edited June 6, 2015 by b2H

[Bayarea4]

ABC's evening news just did a story on Jill and Jessa's reaction to the scandal. Jessa was identified as "Jessa Duggar Dillard" and Jill as "Jill Duggar Seewald." Evidently whoever orders their graphics has never seen "19 Kids and Counting."

[b2H]

ABC's evening news just did a story on Jill and Jessa's reaction to the scandal. Jessa was identified as "Jessa Duggar Dillard" and Jill as "Jill Duggar Seewald." Evidently whoever orders their graphics has never seen "19 Kids and Counting."

Clearly, TLC is not a Disney property, like ESPN.

[Darknight]

ABC's evening news just did a story on Jill and Jessa's reaction to the scandal. Jessa was identified as "Jessa Duggar Dillard" and Jill as "Jill Duggar Seewald." Evidently whoever orders their graphics has never seen "19 Kids and Counting."

Evil liberal media

[andromeda331]

http://happynicetimepeople.com/

 

Does anyone read this site? They've done funny recaps on show before and had a good article about JimBob and Michelle's interview. Especially about the sheep.

[Joe Jitsu913]

http://happynicetimepeople.com/

Does anyone read this site? They've done funny recaps on show before and had a good article about JimBob and Michelle's interview. Especially about the sheep.

According to that article, Gothard believes that a woman who winks at you is nothing but a whore trying to lead you astray. What the actual fuck??? These people are batshit.

http://happynicetimepeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/6.jpg

Edited June 7, 2015 by Joe Jitsu913

[NextIteration]

 

 

Can't you dig up something good on that racist, antigay Duck Dynasty clan?

I’ll get on that, but I don’t think we’re done with the Duggars yet.

 

Well this doesn't bode well for the Duggars; it appears that they've (InTouch) held their powder and let the Duggars sink themselves.  This interview also speaks to my "critical mass" theory.  Ha!  Validation, YAAAAS!

 

I remember the first little assertion that was leaked and showed up on HuffPo, the Edwards supporters lost it and blamed the Clinton campaign.

[JoanArc]

According to that article, Gothard believes that a woman who winks at you is nothing but a whore trying to lead you astray. What the actual fuck??? These people are batshit.

http://happynicetimepeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/6.jpg

[GEML]

I was around when dinosaurs roamed the earth (some time around seven thousand years ago, wasn't it?), and I also remember that there was a very strong theory at the time that the Enquirer was fed quite a bit of that story by a rival campaign.

Which, I have to say, makes me wonder, since candidates like Huckabee and Santorum have a disproportionate effect on the primaries, where only voters registered to a particular party can vote, and generally only the most ideologically fervent voters do. And lo and behold, before the primaries really have a chance to get started, a story comes out about a family which has endorsed both for president in the last two elections.

Things which make you go hmmmmmm...

As someone who was roaming around with the dinosaurs, I'm betting some rival REPUBLICAN campaign leaked this. And isn't it interesting that after Santorum was so kind to them last time around, and genuinely welcomed them, that when their empire made anti-Catholic comments and didn't back him this time, that this story came out AND he had the grace to be the bigger man on the day he declared his presidency?

But then, I remember when Dino Rick Santorum declared for his House of Representative campaign back in 1990. I've been roaming the earth a LONG time....