S01.E08: Et Tu, Doctor?

[Tara Ariano]

Lucifer and Chloe recruit Dr. Linda to investigate the murder of a therapist, while Malcolm confronts Chloe about the evening he was shot; and Lucifer experiences his first pangs of jealousy.

[Jlina]

The most interesting part of the episode is Lucifer cutting Maize off. 

 

And of course no way was Dan going to be clean.  Guy is one good actor though.

 

Was thoroughly impressed with Dr. Linda, they've really rounded out her character.

 

Sad the first half was kind of boring for me....some of the Lucifer schtick is feeling re-treaded.  And his backing off right on the verge of self awareness was kind of a fail.

 

But good for Chloe on the save and letting him live in denial (?)!  I have to wonder though if it's actually not jealousy - simply an obsession with the one person who is not obsessed with him? A different issue....more of the "it really IS all about me," thing.

[storyskip]

I'll admit I was a little uncertain about this episode from it's write up and the emphasis on Lucifer being jealous. As much as I enjoy a lot of what they're doing with the character I wasn't big on the jealous angle.

That said I was pleasantly surprised, intrigued and had a few OMG moments in this episode, so it definitely out performed my concerns!

Those folks calling it that Dan was dirty, good on yah! It may not have been a shocking 'twist' but I still felt an "Oh nooooo" moment when we went from Chloe and Dan having a sweet moment, to confirmation that Dan was in cahoots with Malcolm and his partner. :(

I've been kinda rooting for Dan and Chloe, letting Chloe and Luci be friends and I am going to go out on a limb here since all the tropes point otherwise but I feel like this episode kinda buried the idea of Luci/Chloe as romantic partners, at least for the time being.

It may be wishful thinking but hear me out. Luci spent a lot of the episode trying to understand jealousy as it related to him (and yes, he was a bit of a real ass this episode) and he seemed to start out under the notion: "I'm jealous of Dan because I want to sleep with Chloe" because that's like the poster child for jealousy right? Romantic rivals.

In the end, when he told the murderer "You're right, we're nothing alike" I personally take that as Lucifer realizing he wasn't jealous because he wants to sleep/have Chloe's romantic love (the way the murderer wanted with the dead shrink's wife). I think he realized his jealousy is more, "Chloe is my puzzle, my friend and I just don't want to share her attention with someone else." And also, maybe, just maybe thinking, "but she wants to reconcile with Dan ... I have to ... respect that?" Yes with a question mark, then the end scene between them I think was Lucifer actually trying on 'respecting boundaries'/ desires of others counter to his own, for once.

For so long, Lucifer has had sex his way so he just naturally overlays it on all his interactions, particularly with mortals, so he was jumping to natural conclusions when in fact that wasn't really the case.

Anyway, my personal speculation, I'll probably be proved wrong but I liked that they showed Chloe's interested (for the moment at least) is in Dan, with Luci Friendzoned.

I liked that Dr. Linda stood her ground and broke off their physical relationship. I doubt that was easy for her but it was a nice step in the character's development and OMG I LOVED HER VS MAZE!! I seriously love ALL the actors on this show and just throwing them together in mix and match pairings; moar please.

I think Malcolm could provide a very 'devlish' (sorry couldn't resist) big bad, with Amenadiel in the mix, even with 'greater good' intentions. And oooooo, when Luci finally put the pieces together about his bro, Dr. Linda and Maze! It was a quiet sort of rage touched with no little hurt, but wow you couldn't miss it!

So in short I think this episode was a lot of moving the pieces on the chess board, which I know isn't everybody's cup of tea when watching but it has made me engaged in seeing how the next 5 episodes play out so I'd say it did it's job!

Also just thinking! Amenadiel brought Malcolm back and I believe it was to mess with Chloe/part of the 'get Luci back to Hell' plans. And now Malcolm has already murdered someone and seems planned to do more. So good intentions or not, Amenadiel is still approaching humans as acceptable collateral damage.

Edited March 15, 2016 by storyskip

[Gigi43]

I don't care about what happens to Dan, yet, I don't want Kevin Alejandro to be killed on yet another show.

Amenadiel is either not as smart as he thinks he is or Luci just played right into his hand. It seems too neat he put that name on the door that clicked for him so easily. "6'2, black, voice of an Angel", yes that is a description of DB Woodside.

I love Dr. Linda. Lucifer seemed to take her turn down of sex very well, though maybe he was to preoccupied to be offended or baffled? Interesting he has yet to call Chloe by her first name, though he's fine with breaking into her house, but he kept calling Linda by hers.

" Hi, Detective, you need your roots done!" Cracked me up. I loved the line complaining about God being "Judgey" about suicide to the jumper. The line about seeing what Malcolm's dead brains-splattered partner must be the moment the EP mentioned Ellis ad-libbed. Good work, Tom Ellis!

[MissL]

Shoot. I actually kind of like Dan.

Also he seemed like a legitimate romanticblock for Chloe/Lucifer. Please don't go there show!

I like to think its not jealousy Lucifer is feeling but that he can read people and feels bad intentions and basically was getting a bad vibe off of Dan since he is dirty. Seriously I ship just about every show I watch and I DO NOT ship LuciferandChloe. I beg again please no show.

[HalcyonDays]

In the end, when he told the murderer "You're right, we're nothing alike" I personally take that as Lucifer realizing he wasn't jealous because he wants to sleep/have Chloe's romantic love (the way the murderer wanted with the dead shrink's wife).  I think he realized his jealousy is more, "Chloe is my puzzle, my friend and I just don't want to share her attention with someone else."

 

That is exactly what I took from that scene - that Lucifer is experiencing some strange emotion that he thinks is jealously, but unlike most humans (and TV tropes) the specificness of what this jealously addressed is what you said - a person who is taking attention away from him, from a person who he likes/respects as he does Chloe.

 

Oh, and totally knew Danny was shady. His insistance on burying the Palmetto case was totally a red flag.

 

The most interesting part of the episode is Lucifer cutting Maize off.

 

I thought he would give her a smackdown, not a complete firing...Man, this is a problem, because I don't think she will react well - and I bet she calls Amenadiel for some help....Oh boy.

 

Glad though, that Lucifer quickly figured out that Dr. Canaan (really, Amen, you couldn't be more creative in your name choices?) was the genuine Angel Article.

[rue721]

In the end, when he told the murderer "You're right, we're nothing alike" I personally take that as Lucifer realizing he wasn't jealous because he wants to sleep/have Chloe's romantic love (the way the murderer wanted with the dead shrink's wife).

 

Lucifer's description of jealousy made me think of his relationship with God (or even with humanity) rather than with Chloe. Especially that line about the pain of someone never seeing you the way you want them to.

 

Chloe sees Lucifer pretty clearly -- clearer than anyone else does, anyway -- because she's not blinded by her own desires/needs when she looks at him (whereas everyone else is). Even though Lucifer obviously worries a lot about how everyone perceives him, Chloe is one person who he really doesn't have to worry about much in that regard. Or at least doesn't have to worry about in the same way.

 

Linda choosing not to have sex with him anymore probably means that she's no longer blinded by her own desires/needs when she looks at him, either. She actually seemed pretty incisive even when they were screwing, so I wonder what kinds of insights she's going to have about him now! I had figured on Chloe being the "normal" character to get involved in all that Biblical dramz~, but now I'm thinking that Linda is going to get pulled into it pretty fast. (Which I'm happy with. Linda's pretty great imo).

 

Anyway, I think that Lucifer's jealousy toward Dan was actually more about Dan being Chloe's partner than about him being her lover. Chloe has told Lucifer flat out that she enjoys working with him -- imo, Chloe has tried to make it clear that Lucifer's only value to her is as her partner. He keeps trying to get her involved with him in other ways, like by trying to her to have sex with him or by worming his way into her family life, but Chloe always shuts him down EXCEPT that she is willing to be (professional) partners with him.

 

So I think that Dan partnering up with Chloe and doing "cop stuff" with her again was actually more threatening than them sleeping together would have been. Not that I think Lucifer would have been happy about them sleeping together again, but by working with Dan like he was her partner, she was making Lucifer straight up redundant/closing him out of her life.

 

Amenadiel is either not as smart as he thinks he is or Luci just played right into his hand. It seems too neat he put that name on the door that clicked for him so easily. "6'2, black, voice of an Angel", yes that is a description of DB Woodside.

I love Dr. Linda. Lucifer seemed to take her turn down of sex very well, though maybe he was to preoccupied to be offended or baffled? Interesting he has yet to call Chloe by her first name, though he's fine with breaking into her house, but he kept calling Linda by hers.

 

Maybe Amenadiel wanted Lucifer to know that he'd been betrayed, so that he'd cut off Maise. Maise is Lucifer's protector and bff, so it's probably easier for Amenadiel if she's out of the picture.

 

I don't think that Amenadiel hates Lucifer, but even beyond his aggravation over being saddled with his hell duties, he might think that staying on God's good side depends on shunning/punishing Lucifer. If he's scared of "falling," too, he might think that it's especially important to take a really hard line with Lucifer (and show God that he's NOTHING like him, and ENTIRELY on God's side).

 

I'm not sure why Lucifer took Linda's rejection so well, and I have no idea what he thinks Linda's reasoning is for it!

Edited March 15, 2016 by rue721

[Sandman87]

I'm not sure why Lucifer took Linda's rejection so well, and I have no idea what he thinks Linda's reasoning is for it!

Why wouldn't he take it well? The sex was just a fun way to get her to give him therapy sessions. Since he's still going to get therapy, he still gets what he wants from her. As the show has made clear, he can find someone else for sex just about whenever he wants.

[solea]

Liked: Chloe and Dr. Linda interacting and working together.

Disliked: I think "douche" was uttered more often than Deb said "fuck" on an episode of Dexter. Enough.

Overall: Love Dr. Linda!

[Bobbin]

IMO, Linda refusing to have sex with Lucifer is her redeeming her soul from hell by not giving into her lustful desires anymore. As Lucifer keeps pointing out, sin depends on choices we make -- and redemption is always possible if we choose it.

[rue721]

Why wouldn't he take it well? The sex was just a fun way to get her to give him therapy sessions. Since he's still going to get therapy, he still gets what he wants from her. As the show has made clear, he can find someone else for sex just about whenever he wants.

 

I would have expected Lucifer to be more worried about WHY Linda didn't want to sleep with him anymore. Their agreement was that she would listen to him in return for him having sex with her. So if she was still willing to listen to him but no longer wanted him to have sex with her, then he had to wonder -- who else was making it worth her while to listen to him, and how?

 

We know from that scene between Linda and Chloe that her reasons for stopping the sex were actually pretty altruistic, but from his perspective, it had to look pretty suspicious.

 

And he did soon realize that Amenadiel had gotten to her, and that Maise and Amenadiel had been playing him for a considerable amount of time, so maybe he was just hiding his feelings (like betrayal, etc) from Linda.

 

The other thing is that he has tried to use sex to manipulate Linda before (offered it when she was trying to talk about something that made him uncomfortable, refusing to have sex after she'd said something that upset him, etc), so I would think that he'd be kind of nonplussed to have one less tool to manipulate her with.

[CheshireCat]

 I have to admit, I wasn't thrilled with the episode and what I liked the most was the very end because that was when the "old" Lucifer came through again. Completely confident and in control. Didn't really care for the emotional exploration; I felt it was too much too soon. I would have been okay with it had it been for only the beginning but I felt that it wasn't really exploring the character of Lucifer himself. Lucifer isn't a human character, so exploring human traits is kind of ordinary. I find his not-human history much more interesting and compelling.

And I really would have liked if Dan hadn't been dirty. I would have loved for him and Chloe to truly get back together and Lucifer and Chloe to only be friends. But now that he is dirty,

I think this basically screamed for the argument between Chloe and Lucifer to happen when Lucifer finds out what is going on and Chloe accuses him of being jealous and then something dramatic happens.

Although, maybe I'm wrong.

 

Anyway, I thought that Chloe's reaction to Malcolm was a bit too extreme. She seemed to have come around in the last episode; she was the one who came up with the second cop and trap door theory and all of a sudden she acts like that never happened.

 

And Linda saying "no" to Lucifer - you could see how difficult that was for her and her reaction when he came back in seemed kind of hopeful that he had changed his mind. Wonder if her resolve will last.

 

Something I realized during the "previously on Lucifer" - when he put his hand through the wall in Linda's office, he wasn't injured. At all. Was that negligence or is that a sign that he's still invincible safe for Chloe?

 

Overall, the episode was too Castle-like for me. They even had the onion quote in it... Looking forward to next week though!

Edited March 15, 2016 by CheshireCat

[GaT]

They need to have Dr Linda working with them more often, she was great.

 

I've been suspicious of Dan for a while. The question is, is he really a bad cop, or is he working undercover as a bad cop? I thought the reason he was hanging around Chloe & Trixie more was either to see how close Chloe was getting to finding out what happened, or to protect them.

[BooBear]

 I have to admit, I wasn't thrilled with the episode and what I liked the most was the very end because that was when the "old" Lucifer came through again. Completely confident and in control. Didn't really care for the emotional exploration; I felt it was too much too soon. I would have been okay with it had it been for only the beginning but I felt that it wasn't really exploring the character of Lucifer himself. Lucifer isn't a human character, so exploring human traits is kind of ordinary. I find his not-human history much more interesting and compelling.

 

I also didn't like it. I wasn't sure what point they were making with Lucifer and there is a fine line between fun imp and buffoon. Luci was coming too close to the latter tonight.  I did like the good doctor being competent and Chloe's interactions with Luci but the rest of it was very unmemorable. I don't look forward to what will happen to Dan but his character is so odd in this story line that I can't see any other purpose for him other than to be dirty / die. Though I don't look forward to that for Chloe or Trixi.

[SimoneS]

I have only been watching for Kevin Alejandro. I cannot believe that Dan is a bad cop. He has to be undercover spying on the guys. However, if he is bad and/or dies, I am out. I don't think that this show is saying anything deep or meaningful. It is just using Lucifer as a twist on a procedural. Also, the acting is nothing to write home about. I also think that the guy playing Lucifer tries way too way.

[storyskip]

Regarding Dr. Linda breaking off the sex side of things, as well as the question of being ethical I also got the impression she realized she was tipping towards more emotionally entangled than was wise.  In the scene where she told Chloe she was sleeping with him, there was a real quick half comment stop where she seemed to be like "I am actually starting to like/want what's best for this guy and I can't risk *caring* about him / wanting him in a romantic way and screwing up our work. Need to stop."

 

Also I while I will agree that Lucifer was pretty OTT this episode, I want to think it was a one time thing.  Again, I really get the feeling that this episode was supposed to push the characters to points of "Oh, wait I need to ...." self realizations so they kinda had to hit various degrees of rock bottom.  

 

For Dr. Linda it was coming face to face with the choice between her work and her libido, for Chloe it was coming to face her desire to reconcile with Dan, for Lucifer it was recognizing he couldn't continue to deflect/avoid his emotions by putting them on other people (welcome to personal responsibility Luci), for Dan it was Malcolm and Palmetto coming home to roost, for Maze it was her choice to work with Amenadiel.  

 

I don't think it was a particularly comfortable episode for any of the characters, except Chloe really, though it's hard to think that since we the audience now know about Dan.

 

That said I did love the "He gets a bit judgey about these sorts of things..." line.   Again, Lucifer can't help himself but to comment when mortals start tossing Dad's name around in vain.

Edited March 15, 2016 by storyskip

[blixie]

 

some of the Lucifer schtick is feeling re-treaded.

 

Really? I found him as entertaining as ever, especially while dominating the self help group to talk about him (So, you're the Devil? And you burned your wings?), and interrupting Dean Pelton's suicide to talk about him. I also liked when Chloe showed up to Dr. Linda's and he was all, "Speak of the.....ME."

 

I kind of wish Dan wasn't dirty so he could just totally reunite with Chloe and he could join Team Lucifer, it's too bad because I think Dan probably has to die, I do enjoy the Chloe who gives Lucifer shit while also being intrigued by him, but Cop Chloe is TERRIBLE every time she makes that deadly serious face and says DECKER! I roll my eyes.

[TobinAlbers]

I kind of wish Dan wasn't dirty so he could just totally reunite with Chloe and he could join Team Lucifer

 

Me too! Dan as the reluctant Team Lucifer member has loads of potential.

 

I'm hoping that the theories are right that Dan got deep, deep, deep undercover in rooting out the dirty cops and that's why he pulled away from Chloe and Trixie because he knew how dangerous it was getting and wanted to protect them. In the final scene with Malcolm, Dan didn't reveal anything other than he did shoot Malcolm but we don't know the context and reasons why he shot him. It could've been that Dan saw Chloe in danger while she was spying on the scene and to protect her, shot Malcolm as a kind of distraction from the danger she didn't know was there.

 

Money says Dan will be exposed to Chloe, she'll reject him and cut him off from Trixie, Lucifer of all people will believe he isn't dirty (after initially reveling in Dan being 'no good' and Chloe rejecting him) and actually help Dan only for Dan to die in Chloe's arms after protecting Chloe or Trixie (or in a twist Lucifer) and Lucifer being reminded of what true sacrifice looks like. Now the thing is we've seen that angels can bring back someone on the brink of death (Malcolm was revived) so could/would Lucifer bring back Dan for Chloe or allow him to die? And would that be a plot point for later with Lucifer struggling with 'feelings' as he sees the pain Chloe and Trixie are in over Dan's death that he could've brought him back but chose not to for his own reasons and Chloe finds this out and cuts him out of her life?

 

Good for Dr. Linda for taking the ethical stand but I'll miss her and Lucifer's sexy time sessions. I admit it I'm a Lucinda shipper, LOL.  But this episode proved she could be useful beyond Lucifer's sounding board as she had great chemistry with both Chloe and Maze in terms of being able to create interesting scene dynamics so I'm not worried about her being an original cast member on the chopping block when they get to 'Lucifer's world is changed forever!' episode. Yet.

 

'Tissue Lad!' is the phrase that cracked me up for some reason.

[gazebo]

Do you remember the last scene with Dr. Linda and Lucifer?  Before he came through the door, she was packing a box that had her name on it.  It looked like she was putting all her files into that box and I wondered if she was leaving her practice when Lucifer came in.  She didn't act like she was going to stop treating Lucifer, but yet she looked like she was leaving.  I wonder what's going on there.

 

"Dr. Canaan"?  Really Amenadial, did you really think Lucifer couldn't figure out that you were the one that was influencing Dr. Linda by masquerading using a biblical name?  Seriously, I miss the cute angel.  I thought it was very clever of Amenadial to bring back Malcolm to cause trouble with Lucifer, Chloe and Dan.  I wonder if Amenadial is going to go through his Fall from Grace very soon.  (Pardon me if I spelt Amenadial wrong.)

 

Mazakeen looked like she was about to panic or cry when Lucifer told her that he ended their friendship because of her betrayal.  It was the first time I saw this demon lady looking so vulnerable.  I almost felt sorry for her.

 

I find it hard to believe that Detective "Douche" is a bad cop.  I like to think that maybe he was going undercover to investigate Malcolm but unfortunately got way in over his head.  I'm intrigued by this twist.  Makes Dan's character more interesting to me.

 

I think Lucifer is getting more and more human the longer he stays on earth.  What happened to the flaming red eyes and the horrible visage when he got angry at someone? 

 

 

[storyskip]

Do you remember the last scene with Dr. Linda and Lucifer?  Before he came through the door, she was packing a box that had her name on it.  It looked like she was putting all her files into that box and I wondered if she was leaving her practice when Lucifer came in.  She didn't act like she was going to stop treating Lucifer, but yet she looked like she was leaving.  I wonder what's going on there.

 

I think Lucifer is getting more and more human the longer he stays on earth.  What happened to the flaming red eyes and the horrible visage when he got angry at someone? 

 

Dr. Linda was packing up the files from the murdered therapist.  The box had her name on it because she was the addressee for when they were shipped over to her for her review.

 

He wasn't angry at anyone this episode.   He was furious with Mazikeen for her interference but it was a cold rage by the time he got to her, flashing his red eyes/demon face at Maze gets her happy and excited remember?  Why would he give her what she likes when he's angry with her?

[johntfs]

They need to have Dr Linda working with them more often, she was great.

 

I've been suspicious of Dan for a while. The question is, is he really a bad cop, or is he working undercover as a bad cop? I thought the reason he was hanging around Chloe & Trixie more was either to see how close Chloe was getting to finding out what happened, or to protect them.

 

Well, he murdered two people and tried to kill a third (Malcolm), so I'll call him a bad cop.

 

Who else noticed the throwaway line about Maze liking "salty drinks?" 

Edited March 15, 2016 by johntfs

[Gigi43]

I've suspected that Dan was involved for a few episodes now. But as far as shooting Malcom goes, I do wonder if it'll turn out that Dan was truly one of the "dirty" cops, or if he shot to in a panic to protect Chloe and then made terrible decisions in covering it up since shooting one cop to protect your wife, even though she's a cop, would look very, very, bad for him in terms of the PD labeling the shooting "Good" (as Law and Order would say.)

 

The way Lucifer was sometimes using "Dan" and sometimes used "Douche" this episode has me thinking Fox is a "douche" limit via the censors.

 

The reason why I can't get behind Lucifer/Chloe as more than just friends/partners is because we've seen it seems like her idea of a fun night is making food with Trixie and maybe watching Dancing With the Stars, which is a good thing to like to do as a Mom, but Lucifer's choice lifestyle is being at Lux doing whatever he damn well wants with as many women (and men) he can, unless he magically becomes domesticated, which would be a damn shame and probably not believable with the speed they'd do it. Plus, y'know, he treats Trixie like a pet he wants to repel, which is hilarious, and they better have a scene together again soon, but doesn't help the case of use buying he'd want any sort of "family time" life. Plus Chloe seems like she might be a bit of a dork, which is fine to be, but, again not a fit for Lucifer in terms of a romantic relationship.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Gigi43

[Primetimer]

In a move that might shock Biblical authors and modern theologians alike, Lucifer turns out to be remarkably incapable of comprehending jealousy, much less experiencing it. But know what he is good at? Solving crimes, especially crimes of passion.

Read the story

[Bruinsfan]

I've been suspicious of Dan for a while. The question is, is he really a bad cop, or is he working undercover as a bad cop? I thought the reason he was hanging around Chloe & Trixie more was either to see how close Chloe was getting to finding out what happened, or to protect them.

As a general rule good undercover cops don't go around ambushing other cops and gunning them and third parties down for exchanging a bit of cash. If that had been to save Chloe Dan would have filed a report on it and taken credit, not popped out of a trapdoor like a murderous jack-in-the-box and then fled via secret tunnel. His actual motivation for that is still pretty opaque to me though—clearly he didn't perform a gangland hit on a fellow officer just because he suspected the guy was dirty. Was Malcolm muscling in on his supplementary income? Or were they trading info that implicated Dan for some other illegal activity?

The thing that surprised me was that it was Malcolm rather than Dan who staged the partner's suicide. Dan's behavior when he showed up at the crime scene screamed that he'd set that whole thing up.

[TobinAlbers]

Who else noticed the throwaway line about Maze liking "salty drinks?" 

 

Was alternately coughing and laughing a good five minutes after that line.

 

FOX is nice to allow these writers to have a little fun.

 

BTW if we get a second season I want Ray Wise (Reaper) and Mark Pellegrino (Supernatural) to guest star just so we have the current Lucifer sharing the screen with two of his predecessors.

[emma675]

I'm going with Dan being a dirty cop--I just don't see how the writers can spin it to make it seem otherwise. Even if he was protecting Chloe or working undercover, he still murdered two people and shot a cop. I honestly didn't think Dan was in on it until he told Chloe that the 999 key had no fingerprints on it; somehow that clued me in. And my first reaction was "poor Trixie". I hope this sets up some good Lucifer/Trixie scenes. 

 

Malcolm is freaky bad and I wonder if Amenadiel had any idea when he brought him back. If so, I wonder what his gameplan is, and if not, he's screwed up royally.

[justjoan]

It helps that I like Kevin Rankin, but I can't help but giggle that Devil from Justified is on this show now. That's dad joke casting. That was also much less Lochlan Munro than I was expecting to see when he popped up last week. Glorified cameo, really.

 

 

BTW if we get a second season I want Ray Wise (Reaper) and Mark Pellegrino (Supernatural) to guest star just so we have the current Lucifer sharing the screen with two of his predecessors.

 

Throw in John Glover and I am there with bells on.

[Sandman87]

...so I would think that he'd be kind of nonplussed to have one less tool to manipulate her with.

I see what you did there.

[Zipper]

So happy Dr. Linda got a chance to work within the investigation, instead of being a sounding board for Luci or a pawn for Amenadiel. Also enjoyed her vibe with Chloe-- thank you writers for not setting up any BS between these two women, both of whom seem like fundamentally decent adults (varying degrees for Chloe-- the one thing that still bugs me is the note she strikes regarding the "I'm the Devil" and related matter, it's a little too much patronizing teenager for me). Little sad for Dr. Linda that Lucibod is off the menu for now, but good for her on the personal growth plane.

Ellis was delightful in this episode-- the charm, the humor, the layers of working out jealousy as a concept. Really liked his performance.

I love Kevin Alejandro, and I'm happy he gets a chance as an actor to play a muddy part. But I sure would like him around for a while, and not just as a turd ex who can't get it together. Maybe this will make Dan a little more interesting.

When I realized coma-guy was Devil? I knew he wasn't going to die any time soon. Will be interesting to see if Amenadiel saved him for a particular purpose or just to shake off some of the frustration from last episode.

[blixie]

I hope everyone is right and Dan is just deep cover/protecting Chloe, no matter how icky I kind of find that, he should be cutting her in at this stage if that's the case, because he's sacrificed her respect amongst her peers to further his career: yuck.

[Happy Harpy]

Where the hell is Trixie?! Seriously.

 

It didn't surprise me that Dan is dirty...weirdly, I think he has more chances of survival now. Redemption and all not being foreign to the main theme of the show. He might still bite it, of course, but had he been an innocent bystander he would have been 100% dead meat imo.

Well, if he's truly dirty anyway, he'll be dead to Chloe. I don't believe she's the forgiving type and imo she'll barely manage to be polite with him for Trixie's sake.

 

I loved Dr Linda and Chloe, and I also like how Chloe admitted she misjudged her. And what Linda said about Maze is exactly what I think and why I can't warm up to her character. She can be entertaining (and the actress is good) but I don't like her because I don't feel for her.

 

I liked how the jealousy angle was treated. There was a "partner" element, mainly, IIRC it's a word he used. There could possibly be a romantic element, too, but I don't think that Lucifer or Chloe are in a place where they can identify romantic feelings between them, they're both too entangled in their respective and individual issues: Imo Lucifer has the emotional development of a six-year-old (so where are my best buddies Lucifer and Trixie scenes?!) and Chloe is dealing with her ex-marital issues. I think that's why I liked the storyline, it made it more interesting and gave leeway for different interpretations. Imo, whatever they feel for each other could believably become romantic, but it could as well not, so I don't feel I'm force-fed a love story and I feel that I'm free to appreciate their scenes at whatever level I want.

[MDL]

I'm sure someone else's come up with this question, but I just started following this show. In fact this is the first  thread I have read for Lucifer.

Has the possibility that the "999"  key is really a"666" key been discussed?

[storyskip]

I'm sure someone else's come up with this question, but I just started following this show. In fact this is the first  thread I have read for Lucifer.

Has the possibility that the "999"  key is really a"666" key been discussed?

 

I don't know if it's this way for all police stations but in LA a 999 key is a key to the station.  Which I believe Chloe said when they found it.

[gwhh]

That surprise me a bit.  Dan being a double murder.  Plus one maybe.  That a bit unusually for a TV show to do that.  Maybe it will show Someone did the shooting and Dan was next to him.

 

I would love to se Dr. Linda & maze become buddies and go out and paint the town red from time to time!!

 

Luc cutting off Maze surprised me also! 

 

There one new question I have for the show fans: 

 

What DID Chloe see in Dan??   Any guesses??   

 

I wonder how good LAPD insurance is for mental issues.  After, he sees Luc devil face he going to the rubber room! 

 

Yeah, the 999 keys with no finger prints set off my alarms also 

 

More on LAPD 999 keys:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/lockpicking/comments/3lvahl/lapd_999_key/

 

 

I'm going with Dan being a dirty cop--I just don't see how the writers can spin it to make it seem otherwise. Even if he was protecting Chloe or working undercover, he still murdered two people and shot a cop. I honestly didn't think Dan was in on it until he told Chloe that the 999 key had no fingerprints on it; somehow that clued me in. And my first reaction was "poor Trixie". I hope this sets up some good Lucifer/Trixie scenes. 

 

Malcolm is freaky bad and I wonder if Amenadiel had any idea when he brought him back. If so, I wonder what his gameplan is, and if not, he's screwed up royally.

Edited March 15, 2016 by gwhh

[wayne67]

There one new question I have for the show fans: 

 

What DID Chloe see in Dan??   Any guesses??   

 

I'd imagine they were both idealistic cops in the same academy. She was impressed with his physique and his idealism and his focus on career, they got into a relationship, she got pregnant, chose to keep it and once the child came along, she kept expecting his focus to change like hers did after she became a mother but he was still the same person after fatherhood. He was single minded, focused on police work while she wanted him to be a reliable husband and father who did just enough for a decent paycheck. 

 

It's not that uncommon that people come into a marriage expecting the other person to change with time. 

 

At least that's my guess for the start and end of their relationship. 

[sinkwriter]

 

Malcolm is freaky bad and I wonder if Amenadiel had any idea when he brought him back. If so, I wonder what his gameplan is, and if not, he's screwed up royally.

 

That's something I'm wondering about. Amenadiel is certainly making some "interesting" choices that don't necessarily seem in line with what his Father would approve of.

[storyskip]

Some other bits and pieces, from the more shallow end of the pool.

 

Folks who are worried about Lucifer's powers.  Notice in this episode how quickly he got from the street up to the roof?  So his angelic speed is still in place.  Then the casual way he caught, dropped and caught the jumper?  Strength, check.  His "truth/desire" ability is still in play so good there.  He still has all his powers, just at the moment he can be injured ... by Chloe and Amenadiel.

 

I'll be interested to see if Chloe can explain away Luci casually lifting, holding and pinning a ... 180 - 200 pound man approximately 3 feet in the air.

Edited March 16, 2016 by storyskip

[CheshireCat]

storyskip, on 15 Mar 2016 - 11:28 PM, said:

Some other bits and pieces, from the more shallow end of the pool.

 

Folks who are worried about Lucifer's powers.  Notice in this episode how quickly he got from the street up to the roof?  So his angelic speed is still in place.  Then the casual way he caught, dropped and caught the jumper?  Strength, check.  His "truth/desire" ability is still in play so good there.  He still has all his powers, just at the moment he can be injured ... by Chloe and Amenadiel.

 

I'll be interested to see if Chloe can explain away Luci casually lifting, holding and pinning a ... 180 - 200 pound man approximately 3 feet in the air.

 

Unfortunately, Chloe didn't even try to explain anything in this episode... Skepticism is one thing, having all those unexplained things happening right under your nose and not even beginning to entertain the possibility that maybe there is a God and thus a Devil just annoys me.

[xander874]

Don't have much else to add except I thought the green screen in this episode was really bad. It was very noticeable in the car with Luci and Chloe but especially awful in the roof scene with Dean Pelton. They must've used up the special effects budget from the last episode.

[Mabinogia]

She is the worst cop in history so...yeah, don't expect her to even attempt to figure out how Luci can do all the things she has seen him do right in front of her.

 

I LOVED having Dr. Linda in on the crime fighting fun. She is far more observant than the cops and open minded. Sure, she doesn't believe Luci is actually Lucifer, but she doesn't constantly shut down the idea and tries to figure out why he would say he is Lucifer. I know, it's her job, but it's also a cops job to find motive. What does Chloe thing Luci's motive is for pretending to be the devil? Does she really think he does it just to pick up chicks? Like his good looks, wealth and suave accent aren't enough?

 

I'm sad Dan is corrupt because it is just so painfully predictable, but from a show that has already tried to build the "Castle" dynamic between the leads it's not even remotely surprising. God, this show could be so very much more than it is.

[Sonja]

And of course no way was Dan going to be clean.  Guy is one good actor though.

There's a Southland-shaped soft spot in my heart for Kevin Alejandro, but I haven't been able to like Dan so far and it looks as if this isn't going to change. He is good though.

 

I liked that Dr. Linda stood her ground and broke off their physical relationship. I doubt that was easy for her but it was a nice step in the character's development and OMG I LOVED HER VS MAZE!! I seriously love ALL the actors on this show and just throwing them together in mix and match pairings; moar please.

I think Malcolm could provide a very 'devlish' (sorry couldn't resist) big bad, with Amenadiel in the mix, even with 'greater good' intentions. And oooooo, when Luci finally put the pieces together about his bro, Dr. Linda and Maze! It was a quiet sort of rage touched with no little hurt, but wow you couldn't miss it!

Also just thinking! Amenadiel brought Malcolm back and I believe it was to mess with Chloe/part of the 'get Luci back to Hell' plans. And now Malcolm has already murdered someone and seems planned to do more. So good intentions or not, Amenadiel is still approaching humans as acceptable collateral damage.

I loved Dr. Linda's conflict of not really wanting to end the physical relationship with Lucifer but knowing she had to. She looked like a co-worker who was on a diet when a business partner brought chocolate cake to a meeting.

 

Really? I thought Malcolm was like a kid on a sugar high, I didn't see any evil mastermind potential in him. Could be wrong though. Lucifer's description of Amendiel was hilarious.

I don't think Amendiel cares one iota about what he has to do to get rid of his temporary job in hell.

 

Disliked: I think "douche" was uttered more often than Deb said "fuck" on an episode of Dexter. Enough.

 

I have to admit I cackled at the 'Oh no, the douchemobile' line.

 

Anyway, I thought that Chloe's reaction to Malcolm was a bit too extreme. She seemed to have come around in the last episode; she was the one who came up with the second cop and trap door theory and all of a sudden she acts like that never happened.

 

Something I realized during the "previously on Lucifer" - when he put his hand through the wall in Linda's office, he wasn't injured. At all. Was that negligence or is that a sign that he's still invincible safe for Chloe?

If someone broke into my home after luring me there by impersonating my ex and I wasn't sure he was abolutely clean, I would have an 'extreme reaction' as well.

 

I was hoping the therapist would nick Lucifer with the knife so we could see if it was only Chloe and angels. I guess they don't want to show us yet...

 

Who else noticed the throwaway line about Maze liking "salty drinks?" 

I did. While drinking tea, which I almost choked on. Thank you, Lucifer.

 

Luc cutting off Maze surprised me also!

I was wondering if they were done on a personal level but he still expected her to run Lux or if he wanted her gone from his sight completely.

 

Folks who are worried about Lucifer's powers.  Notice in this episode how quickly he got from the street up to the roof?  So his angelic speed is still in place.  Then the casual way he caught, dropped and caught the jumper?  Strength, check.  His "truth/desire" ability is still in play so good there.  He still has all his powers, just at the moment he can be injured ... by Chloe and Amenadiel.

Him playing with the jumper as if they were cat and bird was great. And definitely not human strength-wise.

 

Being jump started by an angel is all good and well, but did principle Wood also pump up his muscles to get rid of the atrophy that no doubt had set in big time after months in a coma? If so, would it have been too much to ask to do something about the 70s porn-stache as well? Miraculous follicular death sounds like a fair exchange to walking around more or less unscathed.

[gwhh]

I know one thing Chole needs. A Very Good set locks on her mom house!

Edited March 16, 2016 by gwhh

[Sonja]

I forgot to mention before; I don't know if it was planned or coincidental scheduling, but airing 'Et tu, Doctor' during the Ides of March earns the show a gold star in my book.

[HouseofBeck]

Why wouldn't he take it well? The sex was just a fun way to get her to give him therapy sessions. Since he's still going to get therapy, he still gets what he wants from her. As the show has made clear, he can find someone else for sex just about whenever he wants.

 

It was very refreshing that he just accepted it, no "But whhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?" or pressure or anything. 

 

She is the worst cop in history so...yeah, don't expect her to even attempt to figure out how Luci can do all the things she has seen him do right in front of her.

 

I LOVED having Dr. Linda in on the crime fighting fun. She is far more observant than the cops and open minded. Sure, she doesn't believe Luci is actually Lucifer, but she doesn't constantly shut down the idea and tries to figure out why he would say he is Lucifer. I know, it's her job, but it's also a cops job to find motive. What does Chloe thing Luci's motive is for pretending to be the devil? Does she really think he does it just to pick up chicks? Like his good looks, wealth and suave accent aren't enough?

 

I'm sad Dan is corrupt because it is just so painfully predictable, but from a show that has already tried to build the "Castle" dynamic between the leads it's not even remotely surprising. God, this show could be so very much more than it is.

I would love this show to reboot and be the Dr. Linda/Luci crimefighting team annoying the crap out of Chloe. 

 

That said, I really enjoyed this entire episode (minus the terrible green screen), it seemed to move fast, Luci and his expressive eyes were on point, and Detective Douche is a very unhappy pawn indeed...

 

I know one thing Chloe needs. Very Good locks on her mom house!

 

Yes! 

[theatremouse]

I might be a moron, but to me the last scene played a little ambiguously. I don't doubt Dan is dirty, else he wouldn't have been so twitchy, but I'm not completely convinced he actually was the shooter. Something about the way Malcolm said it read ambiguous to me as to whether he meant Dan definitely shot him, or whether he was just threatening to tell everyone Dan shot him as a means of controlling him.

[Bruinsfan]

She is the worst cop in history so...yeah, don't expect her to even attempt to figure out how Luci can do all the things she has seen him do right in front of her.

 

What does Chloe thing Luci's motive is for pretending to be the devil? Does she really think he does it just to pick up chicks? Like his good looks, wealth and suave accent aren't enough?

If not for the fact that she seems to be looked upon contemptuously by most of the force, I'd wonder if she got her job thanks to her looks. I would hope that real homicide detectives are better than me at figuring out crimes, but she's always playing catch-up.

 

Chloe is weirdly sex-negative in general for someone who got her start in softcore porn. Once she had the 30 seconds of exposure to Lucifer that it took to establish him as a lothario, she seems to have written off any deeper examination of exactly how he manages to convince people to confess their darker impulses. I mean, in the real world a skilled therapist or interrogator can get someone to spill incriminating info they want to keep hidden, but it takes a hell of a lot more interaction than just saying "C'mon, you know you want to."

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Two huge misses for me, one literal.

 

It's hard to care when a show itself, does not.  In the meeting of Mazi and the doc, Mazi comes over all languid and in control, sizing up her new prey.  To show how badass she is, she pours without care the liquor into a glass.  Ooops.  She missed!  Booze splashes on the bar, not the glass.  First of all, Mazi never misses.  Second, she would never allow herself to be clumsy when she is first encountering someone whom she wishes to dominate (which is pretty much everyone).   Giving the doc, or anyone, a chance to laugh at her?  Not.  Gonna.   Happen.

 

Does the show care enough to do a quick retake?  Nope.  It just hopes you don't notice.  Ah yes, such pride they take in their craft!  Can you imagine a Vince Gilligan overlooking this mistake?

 

The miss that really bothers was to have Mazi react with a wounded expression when Luci said he was done with her.  A demon like that would not react with hurt.  She would react with contempt and anger.  The very last thing that would happen would be anything that showed weakness or that Luci would have that pull over her.   So.  We have our first "humanizing" moment with Mazi.  Boooooooooooo!

 

Going forward, in my opinion, the Mazi to whom we were introduced would be working overtime on ways to make Luci pay for daring to diss her as he did.  All this mess about "loyalty" is such rot - as Luci himself briefly alluded.  Caring and fealty in Hell?  What's next?  Angels who deceive and get violent?  Pshaw.

[CheshireCat]

Lonesome Rhodes, on 17 Mar 2016 - 04:08 AM, said:Lonesome Rhodes, on 17 Mar 2016 - 04:08 AM, said:

Two huge misses for me, one literal.

 

It's hard to care when a show itself, does not.  In the meeting of Mazi and the doc, Mazi comes over all languid and in control, sizing up her new prey.  To show how badass she is, she pours without care the liquor into a glass.  Ooops.  She missed!  Booze splashes on the bar, not the glass.  First of all, Mazi never misses.  Second, she would never allow herself to be clumsy when she is first encountering someone whom she wishes to dominate (which is pretty much everyone).   Giving the doc, or anyone, a chance to laugh at her?  Not.  Gonna.   Happen.

 

Does the show care enough to do a quick retake?  Nope.  It just hopes you don't notice.  

 

That's actually how it works. If you look closely, in the next shot, no liquor is spilled, so either they were out of time or that take was the best one out of the ones they took, so they chose the one in which she spilled the liquor. Sometimes they have to sacrifice one thing for another. Which is actually something I read/saw in an extra once, so I'm not making it up. They sometimes sacrifice continuity (like liquor spilled in one scene, no liquor spilled afterwards) if everything else is considered better than in other takes.

Edited March 17, 2016 by CheshireCat

[vampdetective]

It may be wishful thinking but hear me out. Luci spent a lot of the episode trying to understand jealousy as it related to him (and yes, he was a bit of a real ass this episode) and he seemed to start out under the notion: "I'm jealous of Dan because I want to sleep with Chloe" because that's like the poster child for jealousy right? Romantic rivals.

In the end, when he told the murderer "You're right, we're nothing alike" I personally take that as Lucifer realizing he wasn't jealous because he wants to sleep/have Chloe's romantic love (the way the murderer wanted with the dead shrink's wife). I think he realized his jealousy is more, "Chloe is my puzzle, my friend and I just don't want to share her attention with someone else." And also, maybe, just maybe thinking, "but she wants to reconcile with Dan ... I have to ... respect that?" Yes with a question mark, then the end scene between them I think was Lucifer actually trying on 'respecting boundaries'/ desires of others counter to his own, for once.

 

IMO Chloe doesn't have any romantic interest in Lucifer because she can't get past his "obvious" psychological issues. Initially, Lucifer was only interested in Chloe (sexually and otherwise) because she was immune to him and he wanted what he couldn't get. But at this point, I think he does have a romantic interest in Chloe (where I'm defining romance as sexual attraction + emotional connection or the desire for such) especially after their piano talk in the last episode. It looked like Chloe got to him emotionally when she said that she knows how it sucks to be alone, and that she doesn't need to know why his wings were important, it's enough to know that they were important to him.

 

I think romantic rivalry is a source of his jealousy. If he thought it was sexual, but it was really just about sharing Chloe's attention, then he'd complain about why her case with Dan is more important than the case with him, why she drops everything and runs to Dan whenever he calls, etc. Instead, he made comments like Chloe's running off because Dan spilled something on his shirt and she has to help him take it off, and oh no, the trousers too. And when she returned: "I hope our case didn't ruin your kissy time with Dan."

 

After the revelation that the murderer was jealous because the woman he loved was with someone unworthy and she would never see him in the way he wanted her to, Lucifer rejected the idea that he was in the same situation. I interpreted that a couple ways. First, the revelation was made in public, would Lucifer's pride let him admit that he had anything in common with Tissue Boy? So the barriers go up. Second, I don't think Lucifer believes that Chloe could never see him in the way he wants her to. She's feigned interest then faked him out more than once (checking for a bulletproof vest and locking him out of the car). Yet I get the feeling that like Lucy & Charlie Brown with the football, no matter how many times Chloe fakes him out, he'll fall for it every time.

 

Later, when they're outside, Lucifer was lost in thought and a bit uncomfortable when he found out Chloe heard the tail end of his revelation. When Chloe asked if he saw any similarity between himself and the murderer, he said he doesn't know and asks whether she does. I think that's more indicative of what he really thinks about the jealousy, which is, he's still working it out. Chloe said that she sees no similarity, but she said it with a smirk which makes me think that she totally sees it but she's just shutting him down again from thinking that they're anything more than partners, like someone mentioned upthread.

 

At the beginning of the ep, Lucifer said that he doesn't understand jealousy -- why covet what someone has when you can just take it? Then he saw what happened when the murderer did just that and kill the husband -- he still lost the woman he loves. So I agree that in the end, Lucifer did learn that he has to respect boundaries and put other's desires above his own -- well, Chloe's at least, maybe not anyone else's haha.

 

I don't mind shipping Lucifer and Chloe but with a caveat. I can see them as two people who love each other but also realize it could never work because Chloe wants/needs a traditional family and Lucifer could never be monogamous -- at least, not in Chloe's lifetime. So what they could have is a deep friendship where they would be like a couple in many ways except for sexual intimacy.

 

I also don't have a problem with them just being partners and having platonic love. Mainly, I just want what happens in their relationship to come about organically from how the characters develop over time rather than because the writers want to make the characters adhere a prescribed plotline.

 

I would have expected Lucifer to be more worried about WHY Linda didn't want to sleep with him anymore. Their agreement was that she would listen to him in return for him having sex with her. So if she was still willing to listen to him but no longer wanted him to have sex with her, then he had to wonder -- who else was making it worth her while to listen to him, and how?

 

I think Lucifer doesn't mind sex with Linda, but wouldn't have gone there if he thought there were other options. There's a fanvid that shows Lucifer's and Chloe's reaction in slow motion after Linda makes the "I'm freakishly flexible" comment and BOTH Lucifer and Chloe are staring at her with jaws dropped and a WTF expression on their faces. And in the next episode, when Linda jumps him, Lucifer comments that he thinks Linda is getting more out of their bargain than he is.

 

So he is surprised but doesn't question why Linda wants to suddenly go professional. I think he sees Linda more as an unknowing pawn of Amenadiel instead of in collusion with him. Instead of worrying about Linda, he might just start manipulating her instead -- telling her things that he wants Amenadiel to hear.

 

Also I while I will agree that Lucifer was pretty OTT this episode, I want to think it was a one time thing.  Again, I really get the feeling that this episode was supposed to push the characters to points of "Oh, wait I need to ...." self realizations so they kinda had to hit various degrees of rock bottom.

 

I think the OTT was because everything that happened with his wings left him feeling vulnerable and now permanently cut off from divinity. And on top of that, jealousy was now in the mix. As he told Linda, he wants the barriers back up, and cranking up the Luciferness to 11 was an attempt to do that.

 

Well, he murdered two people and tried to kill a third (Malcolm), so I'll call him a bad cop.

 

While I think that Dan is shady, I don't think he's irredeemable. He could have shot those people because Chloe made a noise, Malcolm saw her, and he was afraid they were going to kill Chloe. I hope the show doesn't do the cliche thing of killing him off to make way for Lucifer and Chloe. Instead, I hope he sticks around to, if not reconcile with Chloe, at least continue to be in her life because of their daughter.

[theatremouse]

The miss that really bothers was to have Mazi react with a wounded expression when Luci said he was done with her.  A demon like that would not react with hurt.  She would react with contempt and anger.  The very last thing that would happen would be anything that showed weakness or that Luci would have that pull over her.   So.  We have our first "humanizing" moment with Mazi.

I thought that was the point? For all her complaining about the effects of the "vacation in LA" on Lucifer, it's happening to her too.