Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

[JustHereForFood]

I haven't had time to watch the new Doctor Who episodes yet, but the 4 RTD specials were IMO very good. People forget that Doctor Who has always been "woke".

[DoctorAtomic]

I actually made that same comment in the episode thread a little while ago. 

[Lugal]

On 5/31/2024 at 11:42 AM, proserpina65 said:

There's including diversity naturally and then there's making every single story line about it.  Don't know which one actually applies to DW since I refuse to pay for Disney+ to watch it, but I do know some viewers object to the second.  (Only some, though.  There are plenty who are intolerant assholes who object to any inclusion whatsoever.)  And of course a lot depends on the writing, the quality of which dropped precipitously during Chibnall's time as showrunner.

I would agree.  I think Elementary handled diversity well when they cast Lucy Liu as Watson.  I haven't watched Doctor Who in years, despite loving Peter Capaldi as the Doctor, but the writing was so terrible I had to give up.  I tried to give Jodie Whitaker a chance, but an episode or two was all I could do.  She seemed to be doing a version of David Tennant's Doctor. And the fact that she never impressed me on Broadchurch (in fact, having re-watched the show, I realized Chibnall's story was not especially compelling but the show lucked out in casting Olivia Coleman and David Tennant as the leads) and Chibnall's DW writing was terrible.

Unfortunately, the intolerant assholes suck all the air out of the room so the intelligent criticisms get ignored.  I'll admit I was never sold on the idea of a female Doctor, mostly because I never felt like they made a compelling case for it narrative-wise.  And the fact that they had just gender-swapped the Master in what I call the Galactica mold (dump all the original female characters, then gender-swap some male characters) instead of bringing on the Rani.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

People forget that Doctor Who has always been "woke".

I can't speak to "Doctor Who", as I've never seen any of that show (just never had the opportunity/chance, and it's got such a long history, so there's the whole "where to jump in" thing, too), but seriously, sometimes when I watch older shows I think about how, if htey were to come out now, they and the creators would be accused of being "woke". Norman Lear, Rod Serling, people like that, they'd all be dealing with that kind of commentary. Makes one wonder how people who toss around that word and act like that's some kind of valid criticism have managed to watch so many TV shows over the years. 

Edited June 2 by Annber03

[DoctorAtomic]

'Woke' is thrown around the internet so much now that's it's basically lost all meaning. I mean, the original Star Wars was woke by that measure. 

[Mabinogia]

3 hours ago, Lugal said:

And the fact that she never impressed me on Broadchurch (in fact, having re-watched the show, I realized Chibnall's story was not especially compelling but the show lucked out in casting Olivia Coleman and David Tennant as the leads) and Chibnall's DW writing was terrible.

Yeah, I loved Broadchurch which made me excited to see Chibnall running Doctor Who. I think I just didn't think about what it was about Broadchurch that I loved. It was 100% Tenant and Coleman. They were gold. Not quite Tenant and Tate, but very, very close. I did like aspects of the story but it was mostly the partnership between Hardy and Miller that just clicked with me.

I did hate the second season though, but the third season was outstanding. I think the third season might have been the best, but again, that was because of some outstanding acting. The woman who played Trish was absolutely brilliant. It's not an easy watch though. 

My UO is that I actually think Jodie Whitaker was great. Her character was annoying as a Monday morning, but I think she acted the hell out of the grieving mother. I also liked her as the Doctor. It was the incredibly unsubtle writing I didn't care for when she was the Doctor. Also, the three companion thing made it hard to really get to know any of the main characters. 

I also don't know if this one is unpopular or not, but I LOVED Missy. She is one of my all time favorite Doctor Who characters. I think Doctor Who more than any other show in existence is perfect for gender swapping, race swapping, whatever, because the Doctor is not human. The Doctor isn't male or female, he isn't black or white, he's an alien. I just wish they'd honor the decades long storylines that the recent crop of showrunners have all shit on and tried to outdo. (Clara, the first Doctor no longer being the first Doctor, taking Davros out of a wheelchair (a huge part of his character) because RTD doesn't think people are smart enough to realize that just because one villain is in a wheelchair it doesn't mean all people in wheelchairs are villains (he basically said that is the reason). 

I was hoping I'd like the newest season because the actor is great and a once beloved showrunner was returning but for me, I think I just prefer less heavy handed writing. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

I still can bring up a laugh when Miller plopped her scotch egg in Hardy's hand to answer the phone and he practically squawked. 

[Bastet]

20 hours ago, Lugal said:

I'll admit I was never sold on the idea of a female Doctor, mostly because I never felt like they made a compelling case for it narrative-wise.

I've never seen the show, so I don't have a clue as to the answer to this question: Was the character being a man a big part of the character, such that there would need to be a compelling reason to have a woman or two among the many doctors?  I can only think of examples in reverse, where being a woman navigating the show's universe (e.g. Cagney & Lacey, where they were the first female detectives in the precinct -- to the extreme resentment of their lieutenant and most of their squad, thus them getting shut out of homicides and other big investigations in favor of putting them undercover as sex workers) is a fundamental point of the show, so a gender swap simply wouldn't work.

[andromeda331]

Awhile back they were talking about reviving Cagney & Lacey, is the only way a cop show starring two women on the air is if it's Cagney & Lacey?

[Bastet]

7 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Awhile back they were talking about reviving Cagney & Lacey, is the only way a cop show starring two women on the air is if it's Cagney & Lacey?

Right?  If you create a new cop show where the central partnership is between two women, and inevitably get called a Cagney & Lacey knock-off, simply use that as an opportunity to scoff at the notion there can only be one such show in the genre, that those two characters represented all women on the force, and there are no additional stories to tell.

[Ceindreadh]

25 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I've never seen the show, so I don't have a clue as to the answer to this question: Was the character being a man a big part of the character, such that there would need to be a compelling reason to have a woman or two among the many doctors?  I can only think of examples in reverse, where being a woman navigating the show's universe (e.g. Cagney & Lacey, where they were the first female detectives in the precinct -- to the extreme resentment of their lieutenant and most of their squad, thus them getting shut out of homicides and other big investigations in favor of putting them undercover as sex workers) is a fundamental point of the show, so a gender swap simply wouldn't work.

The main character - The Doctor - is a non-human character - a Timelord.  Whenever his body gets injured beyond repair it regenerates into a new body with a new face.  There is no compelling reason that the new body also has to look like a human male, apart from the fact that the character has always looked like a human male.  (and fanboys can get very whiny when they feel that they're not being catered to)

 

[DoctorAtomic]

Prior to the Doctor becoming a woman, the Doctor's main nemesis, also a Timelord, had regenerated as a woman much to the Doctor's dismay and bemusement. There were other Timelords who have been men or women. Prior to *that* an unnamed Timelord regenerated from male to female in a brief scene. *Prior to that* iirc, another one called the Rani, hinted that regenerating male or female or the other way sometimes happened.

While the Doctor doesn't have total control over the regeneration (except once), I fanwank that their mental state does influence the regeneration. The Ninth kind of had post traumatic stress, so we see a more adventurous Tenth, for example. Why finally regenerate female? Maybe it was just time. There doesn't have to be a huge reason. 

At their best, the Doctor inspires traveling companions to be better, learn, and discover new things about themselves, hopefully to carry on to improve the world. Which, not to get too philosophical, hopefully we, as viewers, learn to be better too. Sometimes the companions turn it back on the Doctor and they learn something too. 

So there's no compelling reason why the Doctor had to be a straight (and they're moving on from that) white guy to be that person. 

However - 

21 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

fanboys can get very whiny when they feel that they're not being catered to

because they are the most special of boys and we must take care to make sure fee fees are smoothed and there are never any any ruffles. 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

I've never seen the show, so I don't have a clue as to the answer to this question: Was the character being a man a big part of the character, such that there would need to be a compelling reason to have a woman or two among the many doctors? 

Given that the Doctor is a time traveler and is often wandering about in the Earthly past with it's many, MANY issues or women, people of color, people who are in any way not the typical "land owner" type, I think there is plenty of compelling reason to have a female Doctor or a black Doctor, or a gay Doctor, etc.

To address how shitty our history has been to anyone who doesn't fit the landed gentry mold. I think the Rosa Parks ep was very well done in that the Doctor, a female white woman, had two POCs as companions, one a young black male, and boy did that not go over well in the Jim Crowe south when they wanted to all share a motel room. 

Because of the structure of the show (alien travelling through space and time) it is extremely well suited for breaking the mold of the character only having been played by standard white males. 

The Doctor basically "dies" and comes back in a new body over and over. While yes, for most of the shows run from the 60s to now, the doctor has been a mostly middle agedish white dude, it was never in the rules that he had to be. That's just how tv worked all that time, most leads were average white males. 

Personally I think the Doctor would want to come back as different types of people to have different experiences and that makes for interesting storytelling (if told by people who can write it well and aren't bogged down by their own agenda). It keeps the show fresh and modern. 

My dislike of the direction the show is going has nothing to do with what sex or color or orientation the Doctor is. It's why it's frustrating because I'd love to support the diversity of the show I just can't stand watching it anymore. 

[Raja]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

I've never seen the show, so I don't have a clue as to the answer to this question: Was the character being a man a big part of the character, such that there would need to be a compelling reason to have a woman or two among the many doctors?  I can only think of examples in reverse, where being a woman navigating the show's universe (e.g. Cagney & Lacey, where they were the first female detectives in the precinct -- to the extreme resentment of their lieutenant and most of their squad, thus them getting shut out of homicides and other big investigations in favor of putting them undercover as sex workers) is a fundamental point of the show, so a gender swap simply wouldn't work.

The rub being that as the first female detective teams who came up in the 70s to the early 80s doing general unrestricted police duties when the original Cagney & Lacey, and Prime Suspect for that matter aired, were actually the first in most of the audience's experience. We are left with the legacy name when the legacy social conditions do not exist. 

So NBC put on a NYPD Prime Suspect, no longer having the first woman leading a murder squad and with 20 years of women leading NYPD detective squads in its Law & Order franchise already on the air. It could have had any name from McCloud to a third Kojak.

[Lugal]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

I've never seen the show, so I don't have a clue as to the answer to this question: Was the character being a man a big part of the character, such that there would need to be a compelling reason to have a woman or two among the many doctors?  I can only think of examples in reverse, where being a woman navigating the show's universe (e.g. Cagney & Lacey, where they were the first female detectives in the precinct -- to the extreme resentment of their lieutenant and most of their squad, thus them getting shut out of homicides and other big investigations in favor of putting them undercover as sex workers) is a fundamental point of the show, so a gender swap simply wouldn't work.

I can only speak for me here, but the Doctor had been portrayed as male for 50-some years, and while not necessarily a compelling reason to keep him so, it does add a certain continuity to the character. Also, I don't mind a black or Asian doctor since race is a made up human concept, and it looks like Ncuti Gatwa will be a great Doctor (haven't seen any of his episodes). 

From a storytelling perspective, I feel like when the character can always regenerate into a new person (especially over decades), it takes skill to keep a certain recognizable continuity to that character or else they just lose any distinctiveness (and to acknowledge that for a lot of people beyond the troglodytes, one of those traits is the Doctor's maleness).  Many argued that the Doctor had been portrayed as asexual up until NuWho and it seemed to be a part of who he was.  So when he can be anything, male, female, gay, straight, ace, etc., it feels like defining character traits are lost.

The idea of Timelords being able to switch sexes during regeneration is interesting, especially how they were always portrayed as a rather stodgy or conservative people but at a certain point, this gets pretty far into the weeds of metaphysics, reincarnation, and the nature of the soul.  While a treatise on these things would be fascinating, they're not the reason I'm tuning in to Doctor Who.

And then there are other issues being the Doctor was one of the few role models for boys who can win conflicts with intelligence and cleverness without physical domination/violence.  But the issue that really annoys me is the Galactica-esque aspect, where rather than develop the female characters they have, they drop them and swap the male characters to female, as if the female characters aren't interesting enough on their own.  It feels weirdly sexist.  Like Moffat saying no one knows who the Rani is, so there's no point in bringing her back, so instead they just gender-swapped the Master.  Which really sucks because Kate O'Mara wanted to return to the role and said: "To have a much older woman as your adversary, there's something interesting about that. She's learned so much over the centuries—it would be like in the fairy stories, where it's always the old woman who is the most frightening."  I would have loved to have seen that, unfortunately, she has since passed away.

[Spartan Girl]

On 6/2/2024 at 6:16 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

'Woke' is thrown around the internet so much now that's it's basically lost all meaning.. 

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, Raja said:

So NBC put on a NYPD Prime Suspect, no longer having the first woman leading a murder squad and with 20 years of women leading NYPD detective squads in its Law & Order franchise already on the air. It could have had any name from McCloud to a third Kojak.

My Unpopular Opinion (based on how quickly that show was cancelled) was that the NBC version of Prime Suspect starring Maria Bello was really good.

[Raja]

6 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

My Unpopular Opinion (based on how quickly that show was cancelled) was that the NBC version of Prime Suspect starring Maria Bello was really good.

The problem was reusing the name and not giving the audience the old show. Given the cultural impact of Helen Mirren any name would have been better. The I hate remakes, reboots and reimagining prejudice hit this one hard.

[proserpina65]

On 6/2/2024 at 5:54 PM, Lugal said:

And the fact that she never impressed me on Broadchurch (in fact, having re-watched the show, I realized Chibnall's story was not especially compelling but the show lucked out in casting Olivia Coleman and David Tennant as the leads) and Chibnall's DW writing was terrible.

That was my feeling on Jodie Whitaker as well.  And on the writing.  Coleman and Tennant pretty much carried season one on their backs.

On 6/2/2024 at 9:35 PM, Mabinogia said:

I did hate the second season though, but the third season was outstanding. I think the third season might have been the best, but again, that was because of some outstanding acting. The woman who played Trish was absolutely brilliant. It's not an easy watch though. 

The third season was half-great.  But only the half which didn't try to cling on to the family from season one.  That, to me, was a mistake because their story was done.

On 6/2/2024 at 9:35 PM, Mabinogia said:

I also don't know if this one is unpopular or not, but I LOVED Missy. She is one of my all time favorite Doctor Who characters.

I grew to like MIssy by the end.  I wasn't sold on making the Doctor female, but with a better actress and vastly better writing, I might've come around.  Shame neither was the case.

22 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

My dislike of the direction the show is going has nothing to do with what sex or color or orientation the Doctor is. It's why it's frustrating because I'd love to support the diversity of the show I just can't stand watching it anymore. 

It saddens me that the writing is so terrible now.  Steven Moffat wasn't the greatest as showrunner, but he did write some damned good stories.  Chris Chibnall's tenure was abysmal, writing-wise, and the show has not recovered from that.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

I gave up on Doctor Who when the various showrunners started making the companions a bit too special for my taste.  From the whole Rose and Ten romantic drama to Clara being the "Impossible Girl," I was out. I prefer my companions to be ordinary people who get caught up with the Doctor and not the new love of his life or some mystery the Doctor needs to solve while also being conventionally attractive thin white women. I tried to come back after Jenna left, but the show had to go and cast Matt Lucas with whom I cannot.  I really have never sought out the show after that.  If by any chance the new old showrunners bring back something like the Ten and Donna dynamic or an actress with the charisma of Alex Kingston, I would consider going back.  

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

The third season was half-great.  But only the half which didn't try to cling on to the family from season one.  That, to me, was a mistake because their story was done.

That is very true. I think I tend to block that from my memory when i remember the 3rd season. lol

 

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

Steven Moffat wasn't the greatest as showrunner, but he did write some damned good stories.

The main thing I learned from Doctor Who is that a great writer doesn't always make a great show runner. Moffat wrote some AMAZING episodes. My all time favorite Blink, The Girl in the Fireplace, The Empty Child. he's great at one offs but tends to crawl up his own ass when given free reign.

[Affogato]

On 6/3/2024 at 6:13 PM, Lugal said:

 

And then there are other issues being the Doctor was one of the few role models for boys who can win conflicts with intelligence and cleverness without physical domination/violence.  But the issue that really annoys me is the Galactica-esque aspect, where rather than develop the female characters they have, they drop them and swap the male characters to female, as if the female characters aren't interesting enough on their own.  It feels weirdly sexist.  Like Moffat saying no one knows who the Rani is, so there's no point in bringing her back, so instead they just gender-swapped the Master.  Which really sucks because Kate O'Mara wanted to return to the role and said: "To have a much older woman as your adversary, there's something interesting about that. She's learned so much over the centuries—it would be like in the fairy stories, where it's always the old woman who is the most frightening."  I would have loved to have seen that, unfortunately, she has since passed away.

I’m female and I spent years identifying with men in media, so boys can find female role models. It would do them good. In addition there are some men who would make good, non violent role models, so I think you are being really hard on men in general. 

[JustHereForFood]

On 6/3/2024 at 12:16 AM, DoctorAtomic said:

'Woke' is thrown around the internet so much now that's it's basically lost all meaning. I mean, the original Star Wars was woke by that measure. 

Perhaps the real woke was the friends we made along the way... (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

 

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

The main thing I learned from Doctor Who is that a great writer doesn't always make a great show runner. Moffat wrote some AMAZING episodes. My all time favorite Blink, The Girl in the Fireplace, The Empty Child. he's great at one offs but tends to crawl up his own ass when given free reign.

Second this hard. He has some very good idea but boy, does he get over himself when given the opportunity. Don't even get me started again on Sherlock and how that went from great to terrible.

 

12 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I’m female and I spent years identifying with men in media, so boys can find female role models. It would do them good. In addition there are some men who would make good, non violent role models, so I think you are being really hard on men in general. 

I think both can be true. The Doctor is a huge role model for this very reason (even David Tennant said that that was what drew him to the character as a kid). But we definitely should have a lot more characters like this and also male characters shouldn't keep being considered as the default - i.e. the idea that women/girls can identify with male characters but men/boys can't identify with female characters.

[andromeda331]

On 6/3/2024 at 1:08 PM, Bastet said:

Right?  If you create a new cop show where the central partnership is between two women, and inevitably get called a Cagney & Lacey knock-off, simply use that as an opportunity to scoff at the notion there can only be one such show in the genre, that those two characters represented all women on the force, and there are no additional stories to tell.

That's one of the reasons I was excited about the Wonder Years reboot. So many people had a different experiences in the 60s. A black family is going to have a very different experience then a white family. Unfortunately it didn't do as good of job as it could have. It was great to see difference experiences for the time period.

12 hours ago, Affogato said:

I’m female and I spent years identifying with men in media, so boys can find female role models. It would do them good. In addition there are some men who would make good, non violent role models, so I think you are being really hard on men in general. 

They can but it's not easy. When my nephew was five he loved Frozen especially. She was his favorite. He even named his dog after her. But when he was a preschool he got so much grief from the other boys because apparently boys aren't suppose to like a girl character that he stopped liking Elsa.

[Affogato]

41 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

 

They can but it's not easy. When my nephew was five he loved Frozen especially. She was his favorite. He even named his dog after her. But when he was a preschool he got so much grief from the other boys because apparently boys aren't suppose to like a girl character that he stopped liking Elsa.

Maybe he gets to discover, rediscover her at a later date. It sure is easy to see how we fight change and people are brought into line, isn’t it? Starts very young:-(

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Maybe he gets to discover, rediscover her at a later date. It sure is easy to see how we fight change and people are brought into line, isn’t it? Starts very young:-(

Yes it does.

[Dimity]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

They can but it's not easy. When my nephew was five he loved Frozen especially. She was his favorite. He even named his dog after her. But when he was a preschool he got so much grief from the other boys because apparently boys aren't suppose to like a girl character that he stopped liking Elsa.

When my grandson was 4 he went out for Halloween as his favourite Paw Patrol pup, Skye.  It was amazing how many people had to comment on a little boy choosing to dress up as a girl dog.  

[Mabinogia]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

They can but it's not easy. When my nephew was five he loved Frozen especially. She was his favorite. He even named his dog after her. But when he was a preschool he got so much grief from the other boys because apparently boys aren't suppose to like a girl character that he stopped liking Elsa.

 

6 hours ago, Dimity said:

When my grandson was 4 he went out for Halloween as his favourite Paw Patrol pup, Skye.  It was amazing how many people had to comment on a little boy choosing to dress up as a girl dog.  

This stuff breaks my heart. I think it's why there is so much gender identity conflict these days. We expect boys to only like boy things. Girls get it too, but to a lesser extent because while being a "tomboy" can get a girl teased, it's nowhere near as bad as what kids call little boys who dare to like something "girly". I hope that some day we get to the point where a boy liking or dressing like a girl character is met with "that's nice" rather than "what's wrong with him?" 

A good character is a good character regardless of color, sex, etc. and can be a good role model to anyone. I don't think anyone of any age should be ridiculed or mocked or harassed for looking up to a character that doesn't resemble them. It's called being open minded. Both nephew (andromeda331) and grandson (Dimity) sound like great kids for seeing beyond "girls are icky!" Keep nurturing that part of them. 

[Haleth]

With the popularity of Bluey I was surprised to learn both Bluey and Bingo are female characters.  My 3yo grandson adores them.  Maybe because they are dogs and not human it's more acceptable for boys to love them?

[bluegirl147]

My granddaughter who will be in two in a couple weeks likes Matchbox cars. Do I think that is indicative of anything other than she likes Matchbox cars? No not at all.  If I had a grandson who liked Barbie would I think that is indicative of anything other than he likes Barbie? No not at all.  But there are some people who would.  Kids are going to like what they like. What makes me sad is even 2024 there is still a pretty significant percentage of people who continue to think boys will be boys and girls will be girls and steer them into that mindset.  Let kids be kids.

[Mabinogia]

8 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

My granddaughter who will be in two in a couple weeks likes Matchbox cars. Do I think that is indicative of anything other than she likes Matchbox cars? No not at all. 

I loved Matchbox cars as a kid. I have always loved vintage cars. I also loved Barbie, GI Joe, playing spy, wearing princess dresses and tiaras. I was the girl in the frilly Easter Dress who was climbing trees because why should any of us have to choose? Because society, and media/entertainment/tv/movies tell us how we "should" behave? 

My role models are anyone I find interesting, creative, kind, fun and clever. I've looked up to male characters, female characters, animal characters, aliens, so long as they are doing things I wish to do or exhibit characteristics I wish to have, I find them good role models. 

Of course my fashion role models have a tendency to be a bit evil though. I've always loved a great dramatic dresser like an Alexis Carrington (Dynasty) or an Evil Queen/Regina Mills (Once Upon a Time). I don't want to act like these woman but man do/did I want their wardrobes. 

[AgathaC]

19 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I loved Matchbox cars as a kid. I have always loved vintage cars. I also loved Barbie, GI Joe, playing spy, wearing princess dresses and tiaras. I was the girl in the frilly Easter Dress who was climbing trees because why should any of us have to choose? Because society, and media/entertainment/tv/movies tell us how we "should" behave? 

Are you me? I wasn’t into cars, but I was obsessed with GI Joe (the toys and the series). I had a huge collection, as did my best friend. But we kept it a secret because we were afraid the boys would make fun of us.

I was very big on playing spies and detectives, but I wanted to wear a dress while doing it and I rejected any clothing that looked too “boyish.” I look back on little Agatha as a girly tomboy.

My parents just let me be me, and I’m grateful for that. But it saddens me that some kids are put into a box or are discouraged from expressing their likes and dislikes based on societal rules.

[Gharlane]

On 4/11/2024 at 11:35 PM, annzeepark914 said:

I just couldn't understand all the hoopla. Was 2017 at night?

It's hard to describe unless you experience a total solar eclipse, but it's interesting.

On 4/16/2024 at 12:45 PM, bluegirl147 said:

Back in the 70s CBS had the groundbreaking shows like All in the Family and Maude and the Jeffersons.  Hard to believe this is the same network.

I never liked All In The Family because everyone was always yelling at each other and it was obvious that we were supposed to side with "Meathead".

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Gharlane said:

It's hard to describe unless you experience a total solar eclipse, but it's interesting.

I never liked All In The Family because everyone was always yelling at each other and it was obvious that we were supposed to side with "Meathead".

Nitpick, but I'd say we were supposed to side with Edith more than Meathead. Mike's superiority often got punctured too.

[DoctorAtomic]

Mike also didn't have the best attitude to women either, and that got called out a lot. 

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, Gharlane said:

I never liked All In The Family because everyone was always yelling at each other and it was obvious that we were supposed to side with "Meathead".

Me too. I also, as a little kid, didn't like Jackie Gleason in The Honeymooners. He was a big man, he was always yelling, and always threatening to hit his wife (by sending her to the moon). But I loved the other main characters, especially Ed Norton.

[Dimity]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Mike also didn't have the best attitude to women either, and that got called out a lot. 

They also punctured his liberal attitude when he found himself in situations where he was at a disadvantage.  I can't remember the details now but he was up for a position that went to a Black man.  I'm fairly sure this was an affirmative action hire (Possibly this was just what Mike assumed?) anyway he wasn't nearly as openminded as he liked to think he was when it came to things that affected him personally.

2 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

I also, as a little kid, didn't like Jackie Gleason in The Honeymooners.

I never minded him or the implied threats of violence as it seemed clear Alice could more than handle him.  What I hated was that sad, dreary, curtainless apartment!  I always felt so sorry for them for living in what I perceived to be poverty that I couldn't enjoy the show.

[ABay]

I loathed the Honeymooners and for years couldn't stay in the room if it or Jackie Gleason were on the TV.

[BlueSkies]

Seinfeld is about as average a show I can ever think of.  I didn't think it was bad but I never really loved it either.  Though I'd say the last episode might be my favorite episode I still recall.  

[Wiendish Fitch]

Just now, BlueSkies said:

Seinfeld is about as average a show I can ever think of.  I didn't think it was bad but I never really loved it either.  Though I'd say the last episode might be my favorite episode I still recall.  

I loved the last episode of Seinfeld... because it was the last. It was finally over.

I love and hate how petty I am.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, BlueSkies said:

Seinfeld is about as average a show I can ever think of.  I didn't think it was bad but I never really loved it either.  Though I'd say the last episode might be my favorite episode I still recall.  

I liked it when it aired, but didn’t love it.  I’ve never watched it again, but I’ve re-watched other “must see TV” shows.  

I stopped watching ER in 1999. I can’t remember why.  

[juno]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

I stopped watching ER in 1999. I can’t remember why.  

I left when Carter left. That was the final nail for me. Show was done.

It did briefly come back when Carter came back, but it wasn't the same. Him and Greene were the heart and soul of the show for me.

[Ohiopirate02]

4 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I loved the last episode of Seinfeld... because it was the last. It was finally over.

I love and hate how petty I am.

How very Larry David of you.

[Dimity]

1 hour ago, juno said:

I left when Carter left. That was the final nail for me. Show was done.

It did briefly come back when Carter came back, but it wasn't the same. Him and Greene were the heart and soul of the show for me.

I left when Clooney left and came back when he guested (maybe twice?).  By the time he left I'd done with the show.  In looking it up just now I didn't realize it was on the air for 15 seasons.  Wow.  I barely scratched the surface!  

Edited to add: never knew he came back in the 15th season!  I guess I had left the show well in the rear view mirror by then!

Edited June 16 by Dimity

[bluegirl147]

16 hours ago, Anela said:

I liked it when it aired, but didn’t love it.  I’ve never watched it again, but I’ve re-watched other “must see TV” shows.  

 

Same.  I realized later it wasn't well written.  Everything was built around a joke.  Which is fine but IMO it doesn't make it one of the best sitcoms of all time. 

[kathyk2]

15 hours ago, juno said:

I left when Carter left. That was the final nail for me. Show was done.

It did briefly come back when Carter came back, but it wasn't the same. Him and Greene were the heart and soul of the show for me.

I never liked Mark Greene I thought he was too passive. I loved Doug Ross and Carter. I felt sorry for Abby it must have been difficult having two mentally ill relatives.

19 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I loved the last episode of Seinfeld... because it was the last. It was finally over.

I love and hate how petty I am.

I hated Seinfeld none of the characters were likable and they argued about stupid things.

[Dimity]

21 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

I hated Seinfeld none of the characters were likable and they argued about stupid things.

I was never a fan but my husband and my dad were so I saw a fair few episodes over the years.  I do think some of them were outstanding (especially the one about the library book) but overall, meh.

[Blergh]

11 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I never liked Mark Greene I thought he was too passive. I loved Doug Ross and Carter. I felt sorry for Abby it must have been difficult having two mentally ill relatives.

I hated Seinfeld none of the characters were likable and they argued about stupid things.

Agree!

One of the worst was when Jerry was set to sign a lease for an ideal apartment with Elaine moving away from her annoying [unseen] roomie into his when he got the notion that somehow this would upset George which George initially denied was the case . OK.  But then Jerry kept harping on it until George admitted not being happy over this move  which wound up causing a chain reaction that  soured the whole deal for both him and Elaine because . ..why?

Jerry hadn't just been unwilling to let that sleeping dog lie, he KICKED it until said dog chewed his foot!

 

[Ancaster]

On 6/16/2024 at 7:24 AM, kathyk2 said:

I never liked Mark Greene I thought he was too passive. I loved Doug Ross and Carter. I felt sorry for Abby it must have been difficult having two mentally ill relatives.

I hated Seinfeld none of the characters were likable and they argued about stupid things.

Abby was an unsympathetic Eeyore.

I'm pretty sure that was the entire premise of Seinfeld.

[Palimelon]

I liked Abbey.

As for the Seinfeld crew, they were somewhat likeable, well Jerry and Elaine, at least, in the first 4 seasons or so. But by the end, you wonder how they all still tolerated each other.