S20.E10: The Women Tell All

[backformore]

I was confused as to which one, Amber or jami, was the bartender from Chicago. I guess both of them?

A friend of mine had two little white dogs. You know, those little yappy things with the high pitched barks. One would start barking ,setting off the second one, who would continue to bark while the first one took a break. Eventually the second one's barking would set off the first one, and the cycle continued indefinitely.

When the twins started talking, I kept picturing them as little yappy dogs.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Bachelor's Women (And A Chicken) Tell (And/Or Cluck) All!
The women are back and they're telling all! Which parts are worth your while?

[ribboninthesky1]

folks, on the first bachelor season (alex michel) there was a "fully black" woman who made it to final 6....why do they keep rewriting history here?

 

I think we're not supposed to remember back that far (maybe there's an assumption that only teens and women in their 20s have ever watched the show).  Also, there was the English guy's season in which a black woman made it pretty far - I think as far as Jubilee did.  So yeah, it's rare, but this season hasn't set any kind of precedent in that regard.  

 

I will always remember this as the season of the eyebrows.

 

Hee!

[ljenkins782]

So Lace, admittedly screwed up, gets invited to BIP but not Olivia? WTH, show? It's for sure BIP only wants the most "dramatic" (translation: crazy) people on that mess of a show. Not that we didn't know that already. Olivia doesn't qualify?

 

For me, Lace isn't even interesting crazy, more on the alarming crazy side. She's got that weird robotic way of speaking and her eyes are always fixed. Pretty as she is, her mannerisms and voice kind of cancel it out. I can't picture her being a big hit with guys on BIP who are there to have fun on an island. 

 

Though truthfully, the same goes for Olivia. Watching even the earliest clips of her before she went off the rails, I was struck by how boring she is. Her crazy THs and awkwardness are far more interesting than her actual personality. 

 

I think if not for Ben finding her extremely physically attractive, I'm not sure she would have made it past the first night. She talks like she's in a job interview all the time. 

 

Twins: Those two were playing hard for BiP, but ended up just coming across as assholes.  Being twins only gets you so far, and it doesn't help when it simply means that you're twice the pain-in-the-ass.  I swear, if these two ever turn up strangled by two wads of Double-Mint Gum, you guys don't know me!

 

The one fun twin moment was the absolute death glare coming from Emily when CH put Ben on the spot to tell them apart. Haley laughed it off, but Emily was PISSED. That's probably what tipped Ben as to who was who. (And to be fair, it's got to be a bit of a sore point to have people find you to be completely interchangeable all the time, but those two certainly feed into it too.)

 

Maybe, Caila is pregnant...

 

Lol, if this were true and the baby came out with gigantic nostrils and a semi-lazy eye, we'd have our answer about Caila's night in the fantasy suite with Ben...

[FamilyVan]

 

Agreed. I looked on the ABC website and a total of 9 women from episodes 1-3 weren't there. There was:

1)Laura- the redhead who was eliminated on first episode
2)Breanne- the self proclaimed gluten-free nazi
3)Mandy- the crazy dentist
4)LB- the one who self eliminated
5)Samantha- the scratchy voiced attorney who smelled "sour" in the ridiculous love lab
6)Jackie- the only thing I remember her for is she had a hard time bobbing for apples because Ben was right in her face heckling her
7)Jessica- I remember her as being cute and wondering why Ben eliminated her on the first night
8)Lauren R- don't remember much except I think she was the one who told Ben she had been stalking him on social media
9)Maegan- the pony lady

 

 Interesting.  I assume one of these was the Red Velvet girl?  Because I did not see her either.  I did notice Samantha was not there.  I guess some of them just say no to coming back.

[pitchy]

I just love Lauren H. She was the only one who seemed to be listening to Olivia with sympathy and understanding, and I loved her comment at the end about how Ben should make his chosen relationship work, for all their sakes. She just seems like a genuinely nice person. Plus, I thought she looked beautiful!

 

I don't know if she actually looks like her, but she has sometimes reminded me of Bruce Dern's daughter, Laura.

 

It WAS nice to see some empathy from one of the women.  Caila was showing some empathy at times too.

[himela]

I don't feel sorry for any of these girls. They have watched 30 something seasons and they must know by now everything is edited to create drama. Olivia you brought this to yourself and playing the victim won't convince me otherwise. Amanda you are not a good mother to abandon your kids for a reality show but getting offended with what Olivia said is right. Jubilee, you are too complicated for this low IQ show indeed. I was happy to see Ben found what he was looking for and I do believe it's real. If it IS Lauren I predict she will dump him in a year or two. If it is Jojo, well, 2 months?

[JudyObscure]

When the twins started talking, I kept picturing them as little yappy dogs.

Heh! Does one of those little, yappy dogs wear a short, low-cut romper because -- duh -- she looks good in it?

[Workslame]

 

 

I'm sure that there was some racial issues going on in that house, that was clear from the episode I saw with Jubilee's date, and unfortunately it seemed more on the part of Amber.   I don't think it should be so, but in this country there has always been an issue with "part black, etc."  In that house, I am quite sure that Jubilee was feeling different because she was darker skinned. I have no interest in Amber or Jami's background, so I don't know what they may or may not have faced. It could be they all have a lot in common  and maybe they all assumed too much about each other. 

 

 

 

You read my mind! Thank you for articulating what I couldn't! 

[Kbilly]

Aww I didn't even notice Red Velvet wasn't there! She was adorable.

 

Caila looked different. Not bad, but I can't put my finger on it.  

 

She wasn't "smiling all the time"!  I didn't really buy her heartbreak but I started to drink the Kool Aid with how she appeared completely wrecked last night. But I really do not want her as the next bachelorette.

 

I think if we learned anything from this show it's that women are truly awful. The chicken serving as a reminder that they will just peck and peck and peck--the Mean Girls crew even had me feeling bad for Olivia!

 

I just don't get how Olivia and Jubilee got absolutely grilled when what Leah did was more horrible than anything on the entire season. She got off way too light. I loved that Ben shot daggers at her when she spoke but I wish he would've called her out more for lying.

 

"Having kids is my jam". No writer!

[leighdear]

Maybe Caila's hair looked a bit lifeless because there were hair "pros" on set for them.  When she was in the house with all the other girls and travelling, presumably doing her own hair, it was beautiful.  Maybe somebody used the wrong products or too much heat on her marvelous mane.  

 

Hair notwithstanding, she was very subdued.  But I think she just wanted to stay out of the shitstorm that was exploding around her from the first minute of the show. She wisely kept herself out of the tantrums.  

[catrice2]

So, do they not invite all of the women to come back, or do some of them just choose not to?  

[Nedsdag]

Olivia had too much eye makeup on.  I was distracted by it.

Will you accept this rose? LOL! Her makeup was a complete disaster from the false eyelashes to the eyebrow pencil. She looked like the love child of Cameron Diaz and Bette Davis as Baby Jane from Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?

 

I'm not going to comment too much on her, but she completely lost me when she said she was bullied as a child and then she decides to become a bully? Heifer, sit your ass down.

 

How close was Jami to a wardrobe malfunction with that "dress" she was wearing?

Edited March 8, 2016 by Nedsdag

[Canada]

Well, no real surprise revelations here.

 

Jubilee is still an arrogant, special little flower, who thinks that she's better than everyone else.  Way to milk that military service to try and make yourself look better.  Gross.

 

Most of the rest of them are completely forgettable and I don't remember them.

 

Leah is full of shit.

 

Olivia is... Olivia.

 

Caila is still annoying as fuck.

 

Lace seems even crazier.

 

Becca and Amber need to just stop with the Bachelor franchise.

 

I'm guessing that Ben picks Lauren B and they ride off into the sunset together to live their boring, bland life together.

[Jax7917]

I hate every season on the women tell all how the woman who got booted on the first episode always has so much to say. I get that they want that extra camera time, but they really should be thanking their lucky stars that they got let go before they were made to look like an ass on TV. Not a smart choice Jami.

 

100 % Olivia will get an invite to BIP and i bet she has already. Either she declined (which i doubt) or they just like to keep certain people a surprise. 

 

I as well thought Caila looked like she gained some weight.. much fuller face. Probably because before the show they get personal trainers and get in the best shape of their lives and after the show they're prob like thank goodness that is over now let me go stuff my face in food.

 

I really don't want Caila to be bachelorette nor do I think she will be because there doesn't seem to be many people who want her to be. She doesn't have the right personality fit for it. I still say it's gonna be JoJo, as she has no chance of winning and is the only decent one to become bachelorette by default .

[leighdear]

When I hear the word "Bully", I picture the 8th grade kid on the playground knocking down the 5th grader and stealing their lunch money.  Repeatedly.  A person with superior power intimidating a person with less power and stature into physically submitting to him.  And taking something from them. 

 

So when I hear these snotty little girls nattering on about Olivia being a bully, It frustrates me.  Maybe she verbally harassed them.  Maybe she belittled them.  Maybe she insulted them.  But unless she physically battered them in some way and took something from them I don't get the bully tag.  How did she have power and dominance over them?  What did she take from them?  It just sounds to me as if they were too stupid to WALK AWAY from her if they didn't like what she said.  But I actually think they enjoyed the attention.  They certainly were preening and posturing in the front row for the cameras during their close-ups.    

 

I know legit bullying comes in different forms these days and is damaging, but I'm still very old-school in my definition of it.  And I don't see how it fit the situation with Olivia. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by leighdear

[call me ishmael]

 

I just don't get how Olivia and Jubilee got absolutely grilled when what Leah did was more horrible than anything on the entire season. She got off way too light. I loved that Ben shot daggers at her when she spoke but I wish he would've called her out more for lying.

 

!

I'm wondering if they have figured out that Caila can't carry a season and Olivia and Jubilee were there to see if they could create a redemption narrative so "America" would want them to find love. I realize that it is unlikely with Jubilee because of the racial politics of the show but Olivia got more time than Caila.

On the other hand, the chicken would be good.

[cinsays]

   Well, I did not come away from this episode with a lot of positive feelings about any of the girls, except Jubilee and Caila. 

   I think Jubilee just has a problem getting her ideas across and is often misunderstood.  I have that same problem.  And it tends to make you self conscious and second guess yourself a lot.  I don't think it was her idea to have as much screen time as she was given, so knocking her for that is misdirected. And, I don't see her indicating she'd gotten promoted in the service was offensive.  She was proud of her achievement and I applaud her for her service.

   I imagine Caila is still somewhat shell-shocked by the way her time ended on this journey of love.  And maybe embarrassed that she did whatever she did in the fantasy suite when Ben's heart was not at all interested in a life with her.

   As for Olivia, I did not like her and her arrogance, but did not find her to be a bully.  She didn't want to associate with the other girls and I am not sure I blame her.   I would not want to be buddies with the twins or most of the others either.  She did not deserve the comments about her breath or feet from the jealous gang.

  The guy that was a tattooed fan of Lace......really?  He had to either be a plant by the Fleiss crew or maybe even Lace herself.  And coming on the heels of the verdict for Erin Andrews and her stalkerish incident seemed kind of icky to me.   And I think she needs to rethink her decision to be on BIP.  That can only hurt her feelings of self-worth in the end and sure won't help her if she does really have a booze problem

[leighdear]

      I think Jubilee just has a problem getting her ideas across and is often misunderstood.  I have that same problem.  And it tends to make you self conscious and second guess yourself a lot.  And, I don't see her indicating she'd gotten promoted in the service was offensive.  She was proud of her achievement and I applaud her for her service.

See, this is where my opinion differs.  Jubilee, an active duty member of the U.S. Army, who has been forward deployed would not be allowed to be misunderstood, not be allowed to be unable to get her ideas across, be bad at communications and generally be self-conscious and second-guess herself.

 

She would NOT have lasted that long in any uniform, much less be promoted and retained.  She's still IN the Army.  If she was really as much of a basket case as has been described, she would have been booted after her first year.  There are plenty of ways to process people out of the service.  But obviously she's been a good soldier and skilled at her jobs.  And yes, she deserves our respect and thanks for that.  

 

And I think she was pretty much herself, the complicated woman with a tragic past.  But I also think she played a lot up for the cameras and the maximized everything she could think of to get herself as far as possible.  And I don't think for a minute she was there to find love.  

Edited March 8, 2016 by leighdear

[MakeMeLaugh]

The bachelorettes who came across or were perceived as the villains or weird girls or outsiders or whatever didn't even make it to the home towns. They weren't the winners like Courtney on Ben F.'s season, or the final three or the runner ups, but they did get to see themselves portrayed during the show as semi-lunatics (Lace), or pushy conceited losers (Olivia), or misfit fish-out-of-water (Jubilee). And then the bachelorettes who felt wronged by them got to publicly dump all over them on the WTA, so they were punished twice. And none of the women who spoke out against them on this episode came across well either. And it can live forever on youtube. Lose lose all around. 

 

I wonder if Caila was told before the show that she is going to be put with someone else in the Kaitlyn-Brett situation of starting out as co-B'ettes and then one of them being rejected by the bachelors. Girl did not seem happy.

[kia112]

All I'll say is being good at your job doesn't mean you're good at navigating matters of the heart / the insanity that is The Bachelor. Case in point: Ben.

[JenMcSnark]

Your friend is sorely mistaken.  I'm composed of three races (Asian, White and Hispanic) and never had any identity issues.  It all depends on how you raise them.  If you raise them to believe that they are nothing more than their racial makeup, then yes, they will have issues  because they can never fully be one race.  However, if you raise them to view themselves as something beyond their physical characteristics, then they will be fine.  

 

I appreciate your post, but I wish it was that simple.

 

As the mother of a mixed-race daughter, I debated offering my opinion here.  But this post kind of decided it.  

 

Without getting into too much detail, I believe I raised my daughter that way.  However, so many other people in the world told her different that she does have some issues in this regard.  

 

I really like and admire Jubilee, but with respect to that issue, we didn't see everything that was said and it did seem like she dropped some comments that were more than just her self-pride at being a full black woman on an inherently white show. FTR I have no problem with stating that she might go farther than any other full-black contestant.  That's a true statement.

 

But some of her other comments didn't sound as innocent as that one IMO.  To dismiss ANYONE because of the color of their skin or their ethnic background is just plain wrong.  Too many people of all races fail to understand this.  And it did seem like Jubilee made comments of that ilk although we didn't see/hear them nor could the other ladies articulate them well.

 

I credit Shushanna who seemed to point out that Jubilee didn't understand why those comments might be hurtful.  And I credit Jubilee who did seem to try to understand that after it was pointed out and then offered an apology of sorts.  

 

Racism, unfortunately, goes all ways and a lot of times is due to ignorance.  Mixed-race people get it from all sides (as do some of the parents of those children) and it shouldn't be discounted.

Edited March 8, 2016 by JenMcSnark

[Armchair Critic]

I saw on TMZ the tattoo was a fake and that guy is known for pranks

[violet and green]

I think if we learned anything from this show it's that women are truly awful. The chicken serving as a reminder that they will just peck and peck and peck--the Mean Girls crew even had me feeling bad for Olivia!

 

I just don't get how Olivia and Jubilee got absolutely grilled when what Leah did was more horrible than anything on the entire season. She got off way too light. I loved that Ben shot daggers at her when she spoke but I wish he would've called her out more for lying.

 

"Having kids is my jam". No writer!

 

I agree, that was the most horrible Tell All show I can recall ever seeing, so many screwed up bitchfaces and so much nastiness and petty grudges and refusing to let bygones be bygones. Really ugly.

 

In defence of chickens, they only do the nasty and distressing to watch pecking order thing for a few days, or a week at most in my observation of backyard hens. These bitches are still at it months later. What a cluster of shrews.

 

I really felt for Olivia, with her sad sad eyes. They were dull with sadness. Plus for Caila with her puffed-out face, dull eyes, dull complexion and non-spectacular hair. (But do not want to see her as B'ette.)

 

Jubilee was also very distressed - just by her slumped, frightened, little girl posture in the background in the wideshots. But I am glad she got to put what she did to Ben, and state that observation, and make him admit it wasn't just her 'difficult' personality and behavior. And I am also glad she got to set the record straight  for the online world who've been slagging her off - blah blah four years in the military (as if that's a piece of cake!) and how come she's not a sergeant, probably because she's so difficult, probably isn't even in the military any more blah blah - that she's now a sergeant. I thought she acquitted herself with dignity after that shitfest she was put through.

[BellaLugosi]

When I hear the word "Bully", I picture the 8th grade kid on the playground knocking down the 5th grader and stealing their lunch money.  Repeatedly.  A person with superior power intimidating a person with less power and stature into physically submitting to him.  And taking something from them. 

 

So when I hear these snotty little girls nattering on about Olivia being a bully, It frustrates me.  Maybe she verbally harassed them.  Maybe she belittled them.  Maybe she insulted them.  But unless she physically battered them in some way and took something from them I don't get the bully tag.  How did she have power and dominance over them?  What did she take from them?  It just sounds to me as if they were too stupid to WALK AWAY from her if they didn't like what she said.  But I actually think they enjoyed the attention.  They certainly were preening and posturing in the front row for the cameras during their close-ups.    

 

I know legit bullying comes in different forms these days and is damaging, but I'm still very old-school in my definition of it.  And I don't see how it fit the situation with Olivia. 

 

People like the twins love to argue but aren't good at it, and when they are bested in an argument or their passive agressiveness doesn't work, they cry bullying.  They can ask Olivia to stop taking Ben first, but she doesn't have to listen to them. That doesn't make her a bully.

 

I still think it's hilarious that Ben considered twin to be more of wife material than Olivia. They are the emotional equivalent of teenagers.  

[kia112]

I really like and admire Jubilee, but with respect to that issue, we didn't see everything that was said and it did seem like she dropped some comments that were more than just her self-pride at being a full black woman on an inherently white show. FTR I have no problem with stating that she might go farther than any other full-black contestant.  That's a true statement.

 

But some of her other comments didn't sound as innocent as that one IMO.  To dismiss ANYONE because of the color of their skin or their ethnic background is just plain wrong.  Too many people of all races fail to understand this.  And it did seem like Jubilee made comments of that ilk although we didn't see/hear them nor could the other ladies articulate them well.

 

I credit Shushanna who seemed to point out that Jubilee didn't understand why those comments might be hurtful.  And I credit Jubilee who did seem to try to understand that after it was pointed out and then offered an apology of sorts.  

 

Half my family is white and my biracial cousins all think of themselves differently, even the ones with the same parents. As a "full black" (ha!), I understand that sometimes you have a "shared consciousness" with biracial people, but only up to a point and it's easy to get too familiar with them when you don't really know their story. You really have to take each person as they are (obviously) and it's hard to judge what happened by that conversation. I can see the reality of this thing happening somewhere in the middle, but the fact that it was Jami and Amber makes me narrow my eyes. The timing and the attempts to buddy up previously that weren't reciprocated makes me think it was a grab for more screen time than an actual issue.

[violet and green]

My thoughts exactly.  She's never going to be able to have a relationship with any human until she realizes that EVERYBODY is complex.  EVERYBODY has suffered.  She really lives in a bubble of ego.  I wonder if she finally got it that Ben just wasn't that into her? 

 

 

Clearly (Donald Trump) everybody is not complex. Humans are complex creatures, but plenty are demonstrably simple souls.

 

Everybody hasn't suffered traumatic events like losing their entire family. I would even go so far as to say everyone hasn't suffered, per se. At some point in their life, everyone will experience suffering - but for some that may not come until the very end.

 

Complex trauma is not the same as having a fingernail break or a manicurist insult your choice of nail shape.

 

I am sure all the women have experienced pain and disappointment in their life (they met Ben), but nobody ever stepped forward to say what shocks they had endured in their lives, and (given how the show historically milks this sort of thing, alcoholic dad, dead dad, etc) I would have to gather they were relatively minor compared to the sense of displacement a little girl would feel in Jubilee's position. She was trying to explain herself, and why she didn't quite fit in, to a pack of hostile bitches with hard little nuggets of coal where their hearts should be.

 

The one redeeming feature of the show was seeing Lauren H's and Caila's looks of heartfelt understanding as various women were raked over the coals, in the hotseat up by that smarmy host, and tried to explain where they'd been coming from.

[WhoAmIReally]

And I am also glad she got to set the record straight  for the online world who've been slagging her off - blah blah four years in the military (as if that's a piece of cake!) and how come she's not a sergeant, probably because she's so difficult, probably isn't even in the military any more blah blah - that she's now a sergeant. I thought she acquitted herself with dignity after that shitfest she was put through.

As far as I remember reading (don't know if it's true or not), she left the regular army as a Private. She told Chris she has since joined the Reserves, where she is now a Sergeant.  So she serves one weekend a month plus two weeks of the year.  She is not active duty personnel.  She must be doing something else to earn money or is going to school.

[MsPH]

So, do they not invite all of the women to come back, or do some of them just choose not to?  

 

I don't think they invite first and second RC eliminees unless they're really memorable for some reason. Tiara was there because they wanted a chicken there. Not sure why Izzy was there though, since I don't think she made it past the first night either. 

 

This episode was such a waste of time. None of the women were any kind of true villains, so going on about some throwaway comments from months ago just made everyone look bad.

 

Maybe Jami and Amber had a reason to be offended by some things Jubilee said, but I believe her when she says it wasn't her intention to offend. IMO what separates an asshole from a normal flawed human is the intent behind the actions, so I can't really see the big issue here. She apologised, so whatever, get over it.

 

Same with Olivia and all those whiny bitches. Yeah, she said some stupid stuff and maybe stepped on someone's toes by (OMG!) grabbing Ben first, but so what? She didn't even make it further than any of the whiners, so how did her words and actions affect their lives? Does Amanda think men will take Olivia's advice and run away from her or what? She already apologised for the Teen Mom comment right after she made it, so I don't see why that needed to be rehashed. You'd think she had shaved their heads while they were asleep or something with the way they were hating on her. I wanted to slap those smirks off their faces. Emily definitely should've apologised to Olivia for all the horrible things she said, not the other way around. They were only trying to justify their own awful behaviour by taking Olivia to task over meaningless nonsense. It annoys me that no one called them out on it.

 

Leah was the worst villain, since her actions actually had some effect on someone else's relationship, even if it was temporary, so she should've gotten most of the hate. And she wouldn't even admit to lying even though we all saw it on TV! I love how Ben shut her up, because what she said was utterly ridiculous.

 

Caila was playing up her heartbreak way too much. She was so somber and only mentioned the future once by saying that she wants someone to look at her like Ben looks at the other two, some day. Isn't she supposed to act sincere, yet totally ready to move on and find her one true love in the next two months? Fail. It's like whatever little she had going for her was totally missing. I really hope she hasn't signed a contract yet.

 

The tongue bath Ben received was kind of sickening. I'm happy Jubilee called him out on putting all the blame on her. Once again we saw how Ben reacts when someone hits too close to home. He got pretty defensive. I don't think Ben likes admitting he was wrong, ever.

 

The finale looks like a mess. Ben needs to stop throwing ILY's around like they're going out of style. Poor women. I hope his mom knocks some sense into him.

[violet and green]

As far as I remember reading (don't know if it's true or not), she left the regular army as a Private. She told Chris she has since joined the Reserves, where she is now a Sergeant.  So she serves one weekend a month plus two weeks of the year.  She is not active duty personnel.  She must be doing something else to earn money or is going to school.

 

Well, one thing we can be sure of, her job is not 'Twin'. :)

[WhoAmIReally]

Well, one thing we can be sure of, her job is not 'Twin'. :)

We may never agree on Jubilee, but I think we agree that those twins were right royal bitches!  They really pissed me off.  I remember they claimed once they had the same "job".  I really wonder what that was?

[BellaLugosi]

Same with Olivia and all those whiny bitches. Yeah, she said some stupid stuff and maybe stepped on someone's toes by (OMG!) grabbing Ben first, but so what? She didn't even make it further than any of the whiners, so how did her words and actions affect their lives? Does Amanda think men will take Olivia's advice and run away from her or what? She already apologised for the Teen Mom comment right after she made it, so I don't see why that needed to be rehashed. You'd think she had shaved their heads while they were asleep or something with the way they were hating on her. I wanted to slap those smirks off their faces. Emily definitely should've apologised to Olivia for all the horrible things she said, not the other way around. They were only trying to justify their own awful behaviour by taking Olivia to task over meaningless nonsense. It annoys me that no one called them out on it.

 

They had to bring up Teen Mom again because they have nothing to really say. If Olivia was as bad as they say, then they'd have plenty of things that she'd done in the house to bring up. But they don't because this "bullying" is all in their heads. 

[bosawks]

I think when Jubilee is saying she's "complex" she's actually saying most of the others are "simple".

I can't say she's wrong.....

[catrice2]

I believe someone posted here that Jubilee is doing something medically related.  I don't know if that is what her job was in the military or not, but I think that is what she is going to school for. 

 

Obsessed friend said social media is all over Amber and Jami.  I never said they did not have the right to be offended, I just don't think that conversation was best held in that forum.  I also am not sure that the three of them ever had an honest conversation that may have cleared up some things. I always say I am going to go back and watch episodes on ABC, but I am not sure that I want to see women tearing each other down the way that has been described here, with Amber and Jami and Jubilee or the rat pack after Olivia. 

 

People who know me know that I don't put up with the racial comments, one way or the other. My black friends will tell you that I will call them out and my other friends will tell you I will call them out too, even when it makes people uncomfortable. I also count on them to address me when I may say something that may be offensive or not well thought out. I think we all have to be accountable for our words, thoughts and lack of education about others.  I try really  hard to learn a lot about different people and cultures and not let that be what determines what I think about people or how I feel.  My dad told me once that "everyone who looks like you is not for you," and I think Jubilee found that out last night.  

 

It is unrealistic to think that many women living together in a house would all love each other and have the same views.  I know it is wrong, but because of the racial history of this show, it is disappointing to me that the three of them chose to handle the situation the way they did,and to do it in such a public way.  They could have found a better way to air this dirty laundry, and the other girls were sitting around uncomfortable and some secretly loving that "they" could not get along.  I am not defending Jubilee because you should always be aware of your surroundings, but in the military they do toss around a lot of different language, and she had to realize she was not in the barracks.  

 

I also am not a very sensitive person and I personally believe we are a point in society where somebody is always going to be offended by something.  Amber and Jami should  have felt sorry that Jubilee was not enlightened enough to be able to understand, but I suspect that just like she has baggage from her past,they also have to own that they clearly have some baggage about not feeling "enough" that had nothing to do with Jubilee.  Jami and Jubilee I can write off as young, but Amber is just too old for this. 

 

No one (and I say this for all the girls) can make  you feel "less than," if you are not already feeling it somewhere in yourself. Only you can control how you react to a situation.  There were clearly racial issues going on in that house, and the Bachelor is never going to address the crux of the matter. 

 

I respect all levels of diversity, but I am curious that since Calia is now the diverse representative of  this franchise, will they cast equally diverse prospective suitors? 

 

I didn't see much of her in the few episodes I watched, but from what everyone has posted I honestly don't see her as someone that is going to be open to dating a variety of different types of men,and when I say that I mean occupations as well as backgrounds and ethnicity. 

[yorklee2]

All I'll say is being good at your job doesn't mean you're good at navigating matters of the heart / the insanity that is The Bachelor. Case in point: Ben.

It doesn't mean your good at navigating matters of the heart in real life either. I've seen so many cases of smart, professional and accomplished people who completely lose their heads over the opposite sex and become unsure and less confidant. Being on a show like TB would only intensify it.

[roses]

About Lauren H soccer mom comment not being talked about, that is due to editing apparently she did talk about it but they never showed it.

Do we need to do an ancestral search and measure out the percentages on everyone we meet? Jubilee herself is not as dark as natives of Africa so I expect she might have a white ancestor in her Haitian family tree.

Africans have a wide variation of skin tones... Edited March 9, 2016 by roses

[MakeMeLaugh]

{snip}

 

Maybe Jami and Amber had a reason to be offended by some things Jubilee said, but I believe her when she says it wasn't her intention to offend. IMO what separates an asshole from a normal flawed human is the intent behind the actions, so I can't really see the big issue here. She apologised, so whatever, get over it.

 

Same with Olivia and all those whiny bitches. Yeah, she said some stupid stuff and maybe stepped on someone's toes by (OMG!) grabbing Ben first, but so what? She didn't even make it further than any of the whiners, so how did her words and actions affect their lives? Does Amanda think men will take Olivia's advice and run away from her or what? She already apologised for the Teen Mom comment right after she made it, so I don't see why that needed to be rehashed. You'd think she had shaved their heads while they were asleep or something with the way they were hating on her. I wanted to slap those smirks off their faces. Emily definitely should've apologised to Olivia for all the horrible things she said, not the other way around. They were only trying to justify their own awful behaviour by taking Olivia to task over meaningless nonsense. It annoys me that no one called them out on it.

 

Leah was the worst villain, since her actions actually had some effect on someone else's relationship, even if it was temporary, so she should've gotten most of the hate. And she wouldn't even admit to lying even though we all saw it on TV! I love how Ben shut her up, because what she said was utterly ridiculous.

 

Caila was playing up her heartbreak way too much. She was so somber and only mentioned the future once by saying that she wants someone to look at her like Ben looks at the other two, some day. Isn't she supposed to act sincere, yet totally ready to move on and find her one true love in the next two months? Fail. It's like whatever little she had going for her was totally missing. I really hope she hasn't signed a contract yet.

 

The tongue bath Ben received was kind of sickening. I'm happy Jubilee called him out on putting all the blame on her. Once again we saw how Ben reacts when someone hits too close to home. He got pretty defensive. I don't think Ben likes admitting he was wrong, ever.

 

I was thinking for a lot of this episode that Ben and some of the women couldn't really say what was going on thanks to TPTB. Ben may have been following orders on the Jubilee situation and wasn't happy with the editing himself. Maybe Caila was limited in what she could say, and certainly Olivia and Jubilee would have commented on the editing they received if they could have as well as the encouragement probably received from the producers to talk soooo much for the camera, to open her mouth as wide as she could, etc. If the show Unreal is at all real (heh), they probably were all shocked by how they were portrayed.

 

I think I feel bad for Olivia because at that age I popped off comments like the Teen Mom slam without realizing how they sounded. I wasn't a mean girl but I could toss off mean humor like nobody's business. Thank goodness reality television hadn't been invented yet and my friends stuck by me.

[MsPH]

We may never agree on Jubilee, but I think we agree that those twins were right royal bitches!  They really pissed me off.  I remember they claimed once they had the same "job".  I really wonder what that was?

 

Cocktail waitress: https://www.instagram.com/p/BBtPXxNShsu/?taken-by=haley_marqueelv

 

Classy.

[OldWiseOne]

I think that was Caila's audition for Bachelorette, and next week we'll see JoJo's audition at ATFR, and then Fleiss will decide which of them has crafted a more compelling story.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Cocktail waitress: https://www.instagram.com/p/BBtPXxNShsu/?taken-by=haley_marqueelv

 

Classy.

OMG. No wonder they used "Twin" as their career title. This show.

[pitchy]

To this and other comments about Caila's appearance I agree. She just seemed so unlike her usual upbeat, smiling self that we saw on the show. The fact that her makeup, hair, and general appearance wasn't up to par just struck me as someone who has been hurt and doesn't care anymore. I think Ben's rejection really did a number on her. Some may say she was trying to play a victim but it seemed to me as if she were more so numb and didn't realize/care what others thought of her.

 

Also, at one point, during the hot seat interview, after watching the awful scene, she got teary-eyed and Chris Harrison said something about it having had quite an effect on her.  So I disagree with the opinions that she was just acting.  She seemed somewhat, for her, depressed, but also WAS paying attention to the stories of the other gals and showed some empathy.  She actually listened instead of whining and attacking.  It's probably fairly difficult to face a situation in which millions of people will see how badly she was rejected and totally surprised by it after she had been encouraged to show her feelings and 'open up' just to be suddenly dumped after 'complying'  with his needs.  He got what he wanted.

[yorklee2]

So, do they not invite all of the women to come back, or do some of them just choose not to?  

I'm not sure but I think everyone would be invited since we always see a few of the early eliminations on WTA/MTA. Also a few weeks back a former contestant commented suicide and the news agencies were calling her a bachelor "alumni" and she was just on one episode. So if they're considered alumni after just one episode why wouldn't they be invited to the tell all shows? I just assumed that some decided not to come.

[pitchy]

When you're of an ambiguous racial makeup to some people you spend a lot of your life telling people what your race is.  Some people are demanding, almost aggressively demanding, asking exactly where your parents come from and what racial makeup you are. There are questions after questions for some of us.  Some people don't have the privilege of being able to use a one or two word shut-down answer. So you learn to identify yourself accordingly in a way to satisfy those people.  You develop a satisfactory short hand.  You come up with a simple and/or mathematical equation that will shut these people up.    It is really not meant to offend you.  

 

I grew up in San Francisco, which has a larger Chinese population than most cities.  I'm Chinese (actually, Chinse-American since I was born here) -- and in jr high and high school, the Eurasian kids were termed "half and half" and that wasn't meant in a perjorative way, since so many of us had crushes on them because they tend to be great-looking.  We even drilled down to "1/4th Chinese" if one of the parents was Eurasian.  

 Even in my family, my dad's father apparently was born in Malaya, and I saw, in college, an anthropological map of the world with the Malayan representative photo having a nose just like ours, with a bump near the top and not flatter as is more common in China.  So, it's hard for people to figure out what I 'am.'  My family denies anything but 100% pure Chinese 'blood' which is another curiosity of the social scene.  

 Was asked all the time "What ARE you?"  and the Philippino lunch table group figured I was one of their own and would chatter at me in Tagalog which I don't understand at all.  I like it, though, that no one can 'place' me in any sure ancestral-background.

HOWEVER, when visiting Hawaii, as teenagers, my brother and I were thrilled that we were suddenly in the *majority* and we felt really good about that.  We felt as if we 'belonged' (as opposed to moving to Santa Cruz and being called "Hershey Bars" by the {white} kids -- and the odd thing is that they didn't mean anything bad about it and they just meant to joke that we were darker than they were).

 

But there is definitely more serious, generalized prejudice when it comes to 'blacks' or 'African-Americans' even today, in connection with interracial dating), so things can be very 'complex' for them when they're in a minority situation and we all know that the very white-focused TheBachelor is not likely to actually choose a black woman for the final proposal.

 This is just a reality and it's a hard one to face when you're one of those gals.  So I imagine they all have more than the usual tensions around the entirely artificial situation of this TV reality dating show.

 

'Acceptance' is probably a tough word, with 'degree' being an important factor.  

Edited March 9, 2016 by pitchy

[TiredMe]

I hope Olivia is doing what she can to fix her open mouth facial expressions after seeing herself on tv. Bad...

Personally I'll be disappointed if Jubilee end up the bachelorette. She is sucked into such a vortex of self pity that I don't think I could take it. Was what happened to her rough? Absolutely. But she got adopted from the orphanage and I felt like that good thing was glossed over by her in her need to focus on the bad stuff. Harsh of me? Maybe. But I still don't want to watch her call herself complex and talk about her tough time. (Frankly I felt the same about Emily, if I had to hear about her fiancé dying anymore, I was gonna scream)

Twins are stereotypical entitled 20 something a-holes. Unfortunately been around a lot of them. (Note I am not saying all 20 somethings are this way).

[Ms Blue Jay]

Racism, unfortunately, goes all ways and a lot of times is due to ignorance.  Mixed-race people get it from all sides (as do some of the parents of those children) and it shouldn't be discounted.

 

I've never seen any one discounting what Amber and Jami say based on their race.  It's their behaviour that makes me question what they're saying.   They're obsessed with Jubilee on an unhealthy level IMO.  They were plain nasty.  It's hard for me to believe something was said when there's no video of it, and when I subjectively think that Jubilee meant no harm or hardly paid them such mind as fellow contestants.   Jami and Amber seem to desperately want some kind of acknowledgement from Jubilee -- Jubilee never felt like she fit in from jump and was just focusing on Ben.  It's like Olivia's journey or Caila's.  They, as the cliche goes, "weren't there to make friends."  And it's not even like any of the three of them "pulled a Leah" (or for fuck's sake, "an Amber"!) and tried to throw a frontrunner under the bus.  They were all simply hoping that Ben would like THEM as individuals and that's all they focused on!  

 

I respect all levels of diversity, but I am curious that since Calia is now the diverse representative of  this franchise, will they cast equally diverse prospective suitors?

 

That would be my ideal, and I would love that.  Someone cynically told me to hold out no hope, but I would love that.   Maybe the show will feel somewhat shamed that UnReal is having a black Bachelor on the show while they refuse to do anything of the sort?

Edited March 9, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[MsPH]

I hope Olivia is doing what she can to fix her open mouth facial expressions after seeing herself on tv. Bad...

Personally I'll be disappointed if Jubilee end up the bachelorette. She is sucked into such a vortex of self pity that I don't think I could take it. Was what happened to her rough? Absolutely. But she got adopted from the orphanage and I felt like that good thing was glossed over by her in her need to focus on the bad stuff.

 

I read some interview with her and it wasn't quite as straightforward. Her sister was also at the orphanage and her adoptive father wanted to adopt them both, but the sister had some incurable disease and couldn't be adopted, so she was left behind. Apparently Jubilee wanted to find her later, but she was told her sister was most likely dead. That's where a lot of her guilt comes from.

 

That said, I'm not a fan of her self-pity either and I don't know if she could handle being the lead. I'd still rather watch her than Caila though, since she seems to have a personality at least. Caila's still trying to find hers and I don't think it's a good basis for forming a genuine love connection, let alone several at the same time.

[JenMcSnark]

I've never seen any one discounting what Amber and Jami say based on their race.  It's their behaviour that makes me question what they're saying.   They're obsessed with Jubilee on an unhealthy level IMO.  They were plain nasty.  It's hard for me to believe something was said when there's no video of it, and when I subjectively think that Jubilee meant no harm or hardly paid them such mind as fellow contestants.   Jami and Amber seem to desperately want some kind of acknowledgement from Jubilee -- Jubilee never felt like she fit in from jump and was just focusing on Ben.  It's like Olivia's journey or Caila's.  They, as the cliche goes, "weren't there to make friends."  And it's not even like any of the three of them "pulled a Leah" (or for fuck's sake, "an Amber"!) and tried to throw a frontrunner under the bus.  They were all simply hoping that Ben would like THEM as individuals and that's all they focused on!

 

My quoted comment was more of a general statement regarding some comments on this board vs. saying that Jubilee was discounting those two because of their ethnicity. I'm not going to go back and find the posts but there was one that sticks out about how mixed people shouldn't say anything because of white privilege and that they get opportunities because they can 'pass'. 

 

I didn't care for either of those two either and agree that at least some of their motivation was screentime.  However, for me, I think that Jubilee's response and reactions along with Shushanna's comments (and maybe another girls?) did indicate that there were more "you're not black" type comments made by Jubilee than we saw.  I don't necessarily think they were said with malice, especially after Jubilee said that she does make comments like that in an offhand way. 

 

But I do know how hurtful those type of comments can be.  I'm not going to say it's wrong for Jami or Amber to be upset, especially since we have no idea what they've gone through in their lives or how it might have affected them.

 

Again, I give Jubilee credit for being willing to listen, learn, and grow even though that forum would make doing that more difficult since she probably felt defensive and blindsided. 

[pitchy]

I just don't get how Olivia and Jubilee got absolutely grilled when what Leah did was more horrible than anything on the entire season. She got off way too light. I loved that Ben shot daggers at her when she spoke but I wish he would've called her out more for lying.

 

I think no one would want to give Leah more airtime to reward her for absolute lies to everyone.

 

[WiCkedWitCh]

This is neither here nor there, but it made me smile seeing a mezuzah on the door of one of the Bachelor Nation houses.

woodscommaelle -- It took me a day to figure out my password so I could ask you…where was this? 

 

Also, while I'm here, I thought the Becca blooper was really funny when she called him Chris and then said something like, "oops! wrong season!" Just goes to show how incredibly fake the whole thing is when the contestants mess up like that. It would have been a little different if she said "Oops! Wrong guy!" 

 

I have mixed feelings about Olivia but I really did not like that one girl saying something about, "if you were really bullied when you were younger than you would have learned how to cope with it by now etc." She didn't say those exact words, but she did say something like that. I felt that was extremely uncalled for and shows that she has no idea what bullying really is (most people still don't seem to get it). Having experiences like that growing up can sometimes make a person stronger and have better coping, but it can sometimes do the opposite. 

 

I was never a fan of Amanda (teen mom) and even less so after watching this. And she really looked terrible. 

[pitchy]

We may never agree on Jubilee, but I think we agree that those twins were right royal bitches!  They really pissed me off.  I remember they claimed once they had the same "job".  I really wonder what that was?

 

Cleaning their rooms in their parents' home ?