S03.E11: Kindred Spirits

[ElectricBoogaloo]

As Abbie, Crane and Jenny struggle to find normalcy, The Kindred reemerges as a new threat. While the team attempts to figure out why The Kindred has turned to evil, Crane finds that his romantic encounters with Zoe may have caused long-lasting trouble.

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZgqnInbTSw

Edited February 14, 2016 by OnceSane
locked thread until the show airs

[Primetimer]

It's the K-k-k-kindred, c-c-c-coming to k-k-k-kill them! Pandora's summoning spell doesn't go as planned, among other things.

Read the story

[Yolapukka]

I was hoping The Kindred and his Dredette would walk into the flames after declaring "We belong dead". The Hidden One made them blow up real good though, so things came to a fine end. Also, nice ball and chain flail, even flesh golem girls need accessories.

 

Am I the only one who thought Dredette looked a bit like Betsy? 

 

"Abbie Mills deserves better" was a lovely shout out to the fans, though I wasn't totally sold on the context. It was still good to hear.

Edited February 20, 2016 by yuggapukka

[BigEasygirl]

Am I the only one who thought Dredette looked a bit like Betsy?

Yeah, I was wondering if that was NR under that makeup because I thought so too.

[Miss Dee]

Regarding the Previously TV recap....

Good recap; I'm glad the reviewer liked this episode more than the others. And I too yearn for Original Recipe! Headless.

But I have to disagree with the reviewer's last point. I get that people are tired of almost always seeing the two leads in a partner-led series hook up. But that neglects the fact that the vast majority of these couples are white male and white female. Outside of a Shonda creation, if a white man has a close relationship with a woman of colour it is never allowed to be anything *except* a "rock-solid working partnership and an abiding, blood-strength platonic bond". The implication is that show runners don't see their women of colour leads - what few there are - as being "the type of woman" that a white hero would go for.

So when the next Castle and Beckett (or Bones and Booth, or Mulder and Scully, or Tony and Ziva, or Fitz and Simmons, or Meredith and Derek, or Alicia and Will) arrives on the scene, I will be the first to echo the battle cries of "rock-solid working partnership" and "abiding, blood-strength platonic bond" in the very thick of the fray. But in this show? The one with a nearly obscene amount of chemistry between its white male hero and a woman of colour who is a role model and inspiration to many? HELL NO. I want to see the biggest, most sweeping, most epic, most tender courtship that ever erupted on television. I want Ichabod Crane to be so truly, madly, deeply in love with Abbie Mills that he'd rearrange heaven, hell and everything between for her and her alone. I want bedroom scenes so scorching they set off One Million Moms screeching for weeks about obscenity on television. I want the sort of epic love that gets remembered as a cultural touchstone into the next century.

Basically, I want the showrunners of Sleepy Hollow and Fox Television to double down on the idea that a woman of colour is every bit as beautiful, desireable, and worthy of a romantic fairy-tale storyline with a dreamy British white male hero as every other (white) woman. Let one of the plentiful white male/female led shows out there carry the platonic torch. Because in this world a romance between leads like these is a story not told nearly often enough.

(ETA to add the sentence at the top.)

Edited February 20, 2016 by Miss Dee

[Enero]

I’m so glad we’re seeing Abbie struggle with what she experienced in the Catacombs. Like expected, she’s trying to be strong and unaffected, but it’s obvious that she was severely impacted by the loneliness and isolation she experienced there. 

 

The ending with her drawing the symbol on the table was scary and heartbreaking. I hope that she will let Crane in soon about what she’s feeling. He knows she’s struggling, but he’s wisely not pushing her to open up.  Also, I think that symbol is going to mean something in the long run. Perhaps it’ll lead to a way to take down Pandora and her hubby?

 

Speaking of which, she (Pandora), is so not going to settle for being the Hidden One’s powerless wife.  He could possibly placate her if he acted as if he cared a smidgen about her weakness, but he’s so self-absorbed that he’ll ignore her complaints until she explodes and destroys him.

 

Did the Kindred take Zoe because she and Crane were arguing?

 

I laughed out loud when I saw the Kindress  carrying the old ball and chain, well a flail. LOL

 

Crane’s “well that was odd” was hilarious and right on point. LOL

 

This was the first time that I thought Danny and Abbie had good chemistry. Their scenes were well done. Though he told Abbie he fell in love with her when they were involved before, when he told her he loved her again, it came off more platonic than romantic. And Abbie’s response was sort of the same. There was flattery in the moment, but I didn’t see anything profound. Still they have nice chemistry. I could easily see them falling back into a relationship if the situation presented itself. 

 

Forgot to add, I thought it was sweet how Crane replaced all the plants that died while Abbie was missing. I wish he'd did a mix of ferns and cactus though.

 

Nitpicks

 

Were the gang just going to let the Kindred and the Kindress run off into the sunset without trying to neutralize them and make sure that the killing didn’t start again?

 

Why didn’t the Kindred take Sophie hostage or kill her? Was it because she wasn’t coupled up?

 

Why did The Hidden One and Pandora raise the Kindred only to sit back and let him wreck havoc for several days before bringing him in? If they’d immediately brought him in, perhaps they wouldn’t have lost him to the Kindress.

 

Not necessarily a nitpick, but did Headless’ head survive the Kindred being blown to bits? If it did, that could be trouble in the future.

 

I understand Joe’s talk with Jenny was in line with the theme of the episode, but I did not agree with his advice to her. His situation was completely different from hers. His father raised him. Jenny and Abbie’s father abandoned them. If anyone should be swallowing their pride and trying to connect with their family it should be Papa Mills, not Jenny and Abbie.

 

I really liked the balance of this episode. IMO the show has struggled this season with balance. Tonight they managed it well. All the story threads nicely converged to support the main plot.

 

This episode had the total BSCraziness of S1 and S2. I loved it. Another great episode! 

Edited February 20, 2016 by Enero

[Free]

I have to disagree with the last point. I get that people are tired of almost always seeing the two leads in a partner-led series hook up. But that neglects the fact that the vast majority of these couples are white male and white female.

 

Agreed, and by trying to avoid that, they end up doing just that.

 

Speaking of which, she (Pandora), is so not going to settle for being the Hidden One’s powerless wife.  He could possibly placate her if he acted as if he cared a smidgen about her weakness, but he’s so self-absorbed that he’ll ignore her complaints until she explodes and destroys him.

 

I hope she does because it's just not as interesting seeing her play second fiddle to the Hidden One.

[Commando Cody]

I was afraid that they were going to time-warp Betsey into the future. I also thought it looked like her. She is really not  very good actress. 

 

Did we really need a Zoe send off? Her presence greatly diminishes my enjoyment of this show. We haven't seen her for weeks. They could have just Chuck Cunninghammed her and I think few would have missed her. I had already figured that she was gone because we hadn't heard about her in a while. I did not need closure. Man she was annoying tonight. She showed up uninvited. Crane shouldn't have taken the time to reason with her. He should have just ran. Ran as fast as he could away from her.

 

I also thought the Kin-deads would walk into the fire. 

[Miss Dee]

Point of Discussion: The burning of the cabin where Katrina spent so much of her time with Abraham = "mea culpa, we promise to erase the very stains of these memories and we swear we'll never do this again, baby please come home!" from the writers?

[festivus]

What an adorable couple. I was cracking up at Ichabod's faces.

 

I'm glad that they are showing Abbie's issues and that everything isn't just okey dokey now.

Edited February 20, 2016 by festivus

[LeeLeePanda]

I don't trust Daniel. I hate to say it, cause Lance Ross is fine. But I think there's something off with him.

[Free]

Did we really need a Zoe send off?

 

Her character was so forgettable that it didn't really make much of a difference that Ichabod ignored her all this time.

 

Point of Discussion: The burning of the cabin where Katrina spent so much of her time with Abraham = "mea culpa, we promise to erase the very stains of these memories and we swear we'll never do this again, baby please come home!" from the writers?

 

With S2's finale, 'getting rid' of Headless and now killing off Kindred and his 'bride', it seems so.

[bethy]

I really enjoyed this episode other than the anxiety I had that they were going to rekindle the Ichabod/Zoe thing. So glad that they didn't. I agree that she didn't need a send off, though I did appreciate her "I think you're ready, just not with me" line. 

 

That scene at the end with Ichabod and Abbie was perfection. Just sitting there, playing chess, the two of them zing with so much affection and contentment. Loved Abbie's "Is this Tex-Mex theme a thing?" and Ichabod's "We're a succulent family now!" declaration. So cute. And, yeah, you are.

 

I'm not as huge a fan of all NB's acting choices as I know others are, but her reaction to having doodled that symbol in her blood was wonderful - confusion and fear and just a real vulnerability. I hope she tells Crane in the first scene of the next episode. After suffering through a decade of Supernatural's lather-rinse-repeat story lines with the Winchesters lying to each other and the stupidity of Arrow's Oliver-lies-about-his-secret-kid-for-no-good-reason story line this season, I'm going to have a hard time tolerating an Abbie-lies-to-Crane-for-plot/angst-reasons story line from SH.

[Blackhoney]

Even though I saw the show in advance, I enjoyed watching live and my feelings have not changed. I love this episode with every fiber of my being. Zoe is gone and that is all that matters. Writer Joe Webb said her storyline ended tonight and for that I am thankful. Never again will I have to sit through another episode of Abbie having to give Crane advice on his love life.

I agree that Zoe’s parting words sound like a set-up to a potential Ichabbie pairing and I am so here for that. Hell, at this point I’d take Abbie going on a date with anyone, even Daniel, who I’ve kinda grown to like.

I’m convinced Abbie will take more of a commanding role in future episodes. Next week she meets her father, and hopefully that leads to some beautiful moments. Hopefully, Ichabod will be there to comfort her as well.

I’m looking forward to future episodes, but I will give them 2-3 to keep me on board. If I sense any Abbie fuckery, I will jump ship again. I’m not here to be shipper baited or to watch Abbie carry the load while everyone else enjoys the spoils of her hard work.

[benteen]

The return of the Kindred was fun and the Kindress, complete with a virtual ball-and-chain was funny.  Particularly with the way that situation resolved itself.

 

They handled things realistically with Abbie after her return from a hellish limbo.  Her scenes with Crane, as always, are gold.

 

I wonder if the Ichabod citizenship storyline is now off the table.

 

I also completely disagreed with Joe about what Jenny should do.  This is more of that television “he’s family, you have to forgive him” bullshit.  Just because Jenny and her father share the same blood doesn’t mean her father is not an asshole.  Her father wronged her and Abbie and he has to finally be man enough to approach them and apologize if he wants a relationship with them.

Edited February 20, 2016 by benteen

[phoenics]

Well... that was a crazy episode.  

 

Loved the Ichabbie interaction - with Crane waking up to see Abbie up too and gently trying to open her up... Abbie closing off was so like her... and Ichabod gently and patiently trying multiple times was so like him.  Tom and Nicole just seem so natural in those scenes... 

 

Also - I realized that Abbie was drawing the symbol then with her finger - but since her finger wasn't bloody, she didn't realize it.

 

Abbie's scene at the tree (was that supposed to denote the trail she and Jenny got lost on in the woods where they met Moloch?) was heartbreaking... she looked like she was going to start hyperventilating.  I think eventually this is going to come to a head and it might cost the team something... hopefully not someone... and then finally Abbie will break down and open up to Ichabod... hopefully after he tells her something like "You don't always have to be so strong... " and to let him take on some of that burden.

 

Hooray for the #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter shoutout!  The context was awkward - but I don't care.  Thanks writers.  That was nice to see.  But uh - when did Danny say that he loved Abbie now?  I only heard him say "When I fell in love with you back at FBI training" or something like that.  I don't remember him saying he loved her in the present.  Where in the convo did he do that?

 

Forgot to mention that I loved Baby Corbin bringing up Sheriff Corbin.  But his advice to Jenny was off.  It should be the dad who comes for them, not them running after the dad who abandoned them.  Although does the dad know they exist or where they are?

 

Now for the parts that irritated me.  I can't stand women like Zoe.  She threw how she got her brother to help him with immigration, etc.. and whatever else she did when she was thirsting after him (but he hadn't chased after her yet at all) right in Ichabod's face.  I was like Bish - really?  You did that on your own.  You offered up everything without securing bf/gf status from him and now you wanna act mad when he ghosts you?  Why were you offering all of that "help" to him upfront like that when that wasn't even your man but some dude you JUST MET?!?!  Ugh - miss me with that Zoe.  And good riddance.  Thirsty heifer.

 

For the Kindred, I think I need sleep - that was so crazy.  I still don't get all of it... but Kindred made me miss Headless.  But even with that - the whole "Kindress" story part of it was just weird, lol.  And gross.  The lipless kiss?  Ew.  I actually covered my eyes.  But I did like how unbeatable Kindred was - almost had that old Headless - "crap he's still coming" feeling to it.  It really made it feel like S1 Sleepy Hollow.

 

Now if only they could give us a sand man like bad guy to tie into Abbie/Dad/Jenny, I could die happy.  

 

The way Zoe delivered that line was garbage... I almost wonder if the direction was for her to say it a bit more meaningfully and the actress just flubbed it up.  The way she said "someone" clearly meant Abbie (I think even the actress has given an interview saying that) but eh... the actress has another show though... good for her.

 

Too much Betsy Ross.  I wish they had done this with Franklin instead.  Betsy Ross adds nothing to this show.

Edited February 20, 2016 by phoenics

[cynic]

I loved it! It felt almost like season 1 again, right down to having an almost Headless. Not having him around, as well as the loss of the secret war and apocalypse storyline, really has made the show less enjoyable for me. This felt like returning home. The only thing I didn't like (besides the apparently obligatory Betsy scene which goes without saying) was the motivation behind the Kindred's rampage. It felt hokey, especially when they walked off together and made me wonder if our heroes were really not going to do anything about the now TWO monsters loose in Sleepy Hollow.

 

A few things could have made it even better for me: if Zoe was replaced by Caroline, Betsy by Franklin, Orlando replaced both Daniel and Sophie (without the love declaration) and Joe was replaced by Hawley during that heist.

 

Yeah, I was wondering if that was NR under that makeup because I thought so too.

I was struck by how bad I thought the Kindress was at physical acting, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was NR under there. To be fair though, the (almost) wordless acting that the Kindred and Headless do has spoiled me.

Edited February 20, 2016 by cynic

[benteen]

I was hoping the references to Franklin meant we would see him again in the flashback but sadly we didn’t.

 

Danny continues to indicate that both he and Abbie trained together at the same time.  That was what, 2-3 years ago.  NO ONE rises up the ranks of the FBI as fast as Danny apparently has.

[cassandle]

I also completely disagreed with Joe about what Jenny should do.  This is more of that television “he’s family, you have to forgive him” bullshit.  Just because Abbie and her father share the same blood doesn’t mean her father is not an asshole.  Her father wronged her and Abbie and he had to finally be man enough to approach them and apologize if he wants a relationship with them.

 

I didn't like this at all either.  Maybe Jenny doesn't want to get hurt all over again if her dad turns out to be a colossal dick.  That's a perfectly valid reason for not wanting to talk to him and she should be allowed to take all the time she wants.  If anything I would think better advice from Joe would have been that maybe she and Abbie could get some closure if they talk to him rather than the whole guilt trip of, "I would give anything to talk to my dad again."

 

I was okay with the Zoe send-off because I've been wondering where she was and waiting (dreading) her return.  Now it's over and done with and I don't have to give her another thought.  Not that I particularly minded the actress, but I like the show the best when Crane is bad mouthing Franklin, not moping over a girl.

[tpel]

Awww . . . a Valentine's Day episode! Let's not kill the scary monster we recklessly animated a while back, let's give him a girlfriend instead! It was so wacky it worked!

 

Betsy Ross continues to be kind of pointless, and while I liked Zoe OK in the past, I think after this episode I've had enough of her. Still love Jenny and Joe. I didn't take Joe to mean that, as a matter of principle, Jenny ought to look up her Dad, just that since he was obviously on her mind (breaking into his house when there were probably easier ways to get family relics, carrying his lighter around with her), she might regret not following up on this impulse.

[possibilities]

Ichabod was in his bathrobe ("dressing gown"?), right? In the first scene, where he wakes up and finds Abbie playing chess-- is this the first time he's been other than formally dressed around her?

 

I liked this episode, but I didn't like Joe talking to Jenny like he knew what she should do, and laughing off her own knowing. I think she has a very valid reason to choose not to approach her father, and whichever way she decides, he should support it, not be such a condescending jerk.

 

Can't wait for Pandora to obliterate the HO. That pretentious assHOle needs to be checked.

 

ETA: tpel and cassandle, I hope you are right about Joe's meaning. I think that would reflect much better on him than how I took what he was saying.

Edited February 20, 2016 by possibilities

[lorbeer]

I really enjoyed the episode. And I really hope Ichabod and Abbie are going to be much more than friends. I mean, they already are family-like but I wish there were romance. I hope those obstacles some of you mentioned wan't be really an issue - I mean it's XXI centuary, it shouldn't be an issue at all. ;/

 

The Kind-Lady looked so much like Betsy, I was so sure Ichabod was going to say smth about that - did you see his face? I thought he also recognized her. But know the zombie couple is dead so I guess we'll never know.

 

And I liked that in the memories with Betsy Ichabod was a little crafty. It's nice to know all that "I admire betsy so much" happened later. I wish Ichabood stood up more to her because it looks like she was in command or smth.

[Indi]

Well, that was some heavy Kindred-decay right there. From fighting Horsemen of the Apocalypse to lonely, in need of love puppy. The weird part was that Peter Mensah had to take over Witness duties, since Abbie and Ichy felt like being negligent for a day and decided to leave a murdering monster to his own devices, instead of destroying him. 

 

Danny could have been an interesting character and a compelling love interest for Abbie, but, unfortunately, they keep him in the "I <3 Abbie" bubble and there is no forward movement or creative writing for this character. What a waste of Lance Gross.

 

Joe advising Jenny on how to deal with her father reminded me of Ichy doing the same with Abbie's private life in the past. It was both annoying and wrong, but I know this show too well. Joe will be right in the end, you'll see. It's very much in line with "the man knows better, silly chit!" narrative this show has going.

 

Ichy & Zoe... zzzzZZZzzzz. Why couldn't they keep that relationship off screen is beyond me. Now I have to worry about his next boring love interest, which must necessarily happen on screen. Again. Bleh!

 

I am tempted to feel excited about Abbie painting runes with blood, but considering how this show consistently falls flat on its ass, I'd rather temper expectations.

[thuganomics85]

I guess you might as well bust out "The Kindred finds loves!" episode for Valentine's Day week.   You see: monsters can find love!  Briefly, at least.  I'm guessing the HO killed them or sent them back to the underworld.  Not sure what was going on with that final scene of theirs.

 

Speaking of romance, hey, Zoe is back, which is at the bottom of my list of things that I really don't care about.  At least it seems done for good now.  Ichabod never was going to be there for her like she wanted, and if he was able (a.k.a. none of this saving the world stuff), I don't think it would have worked out in the long run.  She was nice and friendly, but, for the lack of a better word, safe, and I think it is obvious that Ichabod is really drawn more towards women who challenge him like Abbie, even Betsy Ross (sigh), and, gulp, even Katrina.  Zoe lacked that.  But I'm going to quit now, because I feel so dirty for even mentioning Abbie in the same sentence with Betsy and Katrina.

 

Joe and Jenny were boring.  Not sure why Joe thinks he can give advice about Jenny and her dad, just because he had his own strained relationship with his.  Sure, they seem to have a rough patch, but it didn't sound like Sheriff Corbin flat-out abandoned him like Jenny's dad did, so maybe be a bit more understanding, Joe.

 

The flashbacks really felt like they had wanted Benjamin Franklin there too, but Timothy Busefield is just unavailable.

 

Pandora better end up taking out The Hidden One herself at the end of all this, because he truly is the least supportive husband ever.  Asshole.

 

Still not sure how this show is going to handle both Foster and Reynolds.  If already feels like they are struggling.  And now that Abbie is back at the FBI, Foster in particular is really no longer needed.  But they're both regulars, so I have no idea what they are planning.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I also completely disagreed with Joe about what Jenny should do.  This is more of that television “he’s family, you have to forgive him” bullshit.  Just because Abbie and her father share the same blood doesn’t mean her father is not an asshole.  Her father wronged her and Abbie and he has to finally be man enough to approach them and apologize if he wants a relationship with them.

ITA because this is a HUGE pet peeve of mine, both in real life and on tv. Just because someone is related to you, even if it's a parent, doesn't mean you owe that person jack shit. If you want to guilt trip yourself into having a relationship with a person who has treated you like garbage, feel free to do so, but do not tell anyone else that they should do the same. Sometimes a father is just a sperm donor. Sometimes a relative is just a terrible person who happens to be related to you. There is no reason to torture yourself for the rest of your lives by having a relationship with someone like that. In some cases, it is much healthier to cut that person out of your life or have very minimal contact.

 

Joe's situation is different from Jenny's and Abbie's, so it's not fair for him to equate the two. It seriously makes me rage when I see people push someone else into making contact/having a relationship with some jerk in their family. It's not your decision, dude! If Jenny doesn't want to have coffee with her dad, that is entirely up to her. And for the record, not everyone regrets not having a relationship after the other person dies or wishes that jerk parent had been at their wedding or met their grandchild. Ugh.

 

 

 

I can't stand women like Zoe.  She threw how she got her brother to help him with immigration, etc.. and whatever else she did when she was thirsting after him (but he hadn't chased after her yet at all) right in Ichabod's face.  I was like Bish - really?  You did that on your own.  You offered up everything without securing bf/gf status from him and now you wanna act mad when he ghosts you?  Why were you offering all of that "help" to him upfront like that when that wasn't even your man but some dude you JUST MET?!?!

I loathe when people try to guilt trip someone into staying together just because they did stuff. If you're going to be the kind of person who does things with ulterior motives (like thinking you will get a relationship out of this), then you kind of deserve to get dumped. Be nice for the sake of being nice, not because you think you're going to get something out of it. In this case, Zoe offered to help. Crane didn't ask for her help, so there is no reason that she should have expected anything besides a thank you note (which YOU KNOW Crane would send promptly). He doesn't owe her a relationship in return, just like the girl at the beginning of the episode didn't owe that guy sex in a car on their first date. Everyone needs to stop acting so damn entitled!

 

Ahem, but now to the good stuff. Crane gently asking Abbie how she's doing and staying up with her while she played chess with herself was very sweet. I also loved that he bought new plants to replace the ones that died while she was gone. I know she doesn't want him to worry, but I think she is going to have to deal with what happened before she can really move on. As the saying goes, serenity now - insanity later!

 

Pandora, RUN, GIRL. Your boyfriend is a selfish jerk.

Edited February 20, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Badsamaritan]

"We're a succulent family now"....Oh, Crane, you and Abbie have ALWAYS been a succulent family, boo!

I think they let Kindred and his new bae go because the reason Kindred was acting out and shit was because he was lonely and jelly. When he got his Tinder hook-up, he was straight. They was just gonna Netflix and chill, til The Hidden Asshat One got all pissy and destroyed his toys. Pandora hunni, punch his ungrateful ass in the throat, gather yo shit, and get yo life, Gurl!

The less said about Boobsy Ross and Passive Aggressive Zoe, the better.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

 

 

Did we really need a Zoe send off? Her presence greatly diminishes my enjoyment of this show. We haven't seen her for weeks. They could have just Chuck Cunninghammed her and I think few would have missed her. I had already figured that she was gone because we hadn't heard about her in a while. I did not need closure. Man she was annoying tonight. She showed up uninvited. Crane shouldn't have taken the time to reason with her. He should have just ran. Ran as fast as he could away from her.

 

If anyone is going to be Chuck Cunnunghamed, it needs to be Betsy Ross. She adds nothing to any flashback she's been in. 

 

I don't think Zoe's send-off was about her, it was about Ichabod.

He's a gentleman, wouldn't hurt anyone on purpose, and was mortified when he realized/she pointed out the way he handled their relationship. Ichabod needed the formality of closure. 

 

We (the viewers) now know where his head, heart and loyalties lay, we just need for Ichabod to realize it himself. ( I think the same is true for Abbie, but those Mills girls are stubborn, so it may take a bit longer for her to admit her feelings)

 

As for Pandora, she's about to get busy fucking her husband's shit up I suspect. Gird your loins dude. It's about to get biblical. 

[Free]

As for Pandora, she's about to get busy fucking her husband's shit up I suspect. Gird your loins dude. It's about to get biblical.

 

Hopefully sooner rather than later.

[DeLurker]

Why do they keep trying to make Busty Ross interesting?  She isn't.

 

The most interesting thing would have been to have NR be the Kindress, but I looked it up on IMDB and she wasn't.

 

Jen - you don't need Abbie to tell you what you should think about Papa Mills, although her feelings should be taken into consideration.  Joe's got no legs to stand on here.

[Watermelon]

I think hearing the Hidden One denigrate love as a weakness will be the start of the end for Pandora and her Husband.

 

Marital spats can be so interesting. I hope she goes scorched earth.

[cynic]

While I find Pandora/HO boring as a Big Bad, I have to admit that I'm looking forward to her finally losing it with her husband. It'll be like the best episode of Snapped ever. Also, Sossamon has done such a lovely job with the character despite the middling writing.

In the bright light of morning, I'm a bit more bothered about the Kindred's lame Lifetime channel motivation, the witnesses' willingness to let them go (sure, they're fine now, but what if they have a fight?), and the kinda dumb way everything resolved (the explosion looked awful), but it was still the best episode this season.

Also, I'm totally picturing Abbie and Crane as regulars for Colonial Times' Early Burr special.

[Enero]

. But uh - when did Danny say that he loved Abbie now? I only heard him say "When I fell in love with you back at FBI training" or something like that. I don't remember him saying he loved her in the present. Where in the convo did he do that?

He didn't actually say 'I love you' but Abbie asked him straight up if he loves her and pointed out that he's never said it before. He then responded that he never had to. This was him saying he loves her now. Though he stated that he fell in love with her in the past, his admission of love for her in the present came off more like he loves her as a friend rather than a lover. But like I said I could easily see them hooking up again if the opportunity presented itself.

Danny continues to indicate that both he and Abbie trained together at the same time. That was what, 2-3 years ago. NO ONE rises up the ranks of the FBI as fast as Danny apparently has.

Crane was missing for 9 months. During that time Abbie went to the FBI which is when her and Danny trained in the same class. So I'd guess it's only been about a year in SH time since they were at the academy. Both seemed to have moved up pretty fast at the FBI to be newbies, with her having a corner office and him already being a Director over a field office.

I was okay with the Zoe send-off...

Me too. Like others have said her send off was about Crane not about her. Basically each time they ran into each other in this episode, with the exception of the last time, he was distracted by doing something for Abbie (replacing her plants) or with Abbie (taking down the Kindred). And before that he'd neglected her because he was trying to find Abbie after her disappearance. The point was that A) Crane (and Abbie for that matter) are never going to be able to have a committed relationship with anyone who doesn't know what they deal with on a weekly basis and B) He (and Abbie) are already in a committed relationship. Zoe mentioned that he was ready for a commitment but just not with her. I was like dam straight. He's already committed to Abbie. They live together. They fight together. They share with each other and support each other through the good and bad and they will move heaven and earth to save each other. And on top of that they have a soulful bond. If that ain't a commitment I don't know what is. Both just need to admit that what they have is way more than friendship and witness duties.

I think hearing the Hidden One denigrate love as a weakness will be the start of the end for Pandora and her Husband.

Yep. The irony of he's ire was that he was reawakened out of love and that just earlier in the episode he was telling Pandora how he loved her even when she was a human enslaved in chains. He seems to like to remind her of that. I think this is the second time he's brought up her human origins. The fact that she is human, I think will lead to his ultimate downfall.

In the bright light of morning, I'm a bit more bothered about the Kindred's lame Lifetime channel motivation, the witnesses' willingness to let them go (sure, they're fine now, but what if they have a fight?), and the kinda dumb way everything resolved...

But is it resolved though? Upon rewatch it looks like the Horsemen's head survived the explosion. So there is the possibility that we MAY see a horseman again. :)

Edited February 20, 2016 by Enero

[Sparkling Beth]

 

Crane’s “well that was odd” was hilarious and right on point. LOL

That saved the whole scene.  I was watching the play between the Kindred and the Kindress and feeling uncomfortable, thinking, "Are we supposed to be taking this seriously?"  Then Crane's comment made me realize that the writers knew it was funny too.  Tom's timing was perfect on his delivery of that line.

[Miss Dee]

I thought it was kinda sweet, in a Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas kind of way. But yeah, watching everybody watch while completely non-plussed sort of made the moment.

[FiveByFive]

Speaking of romance, hey, Zoe is back, which is at the bottom of my list of things that I really don't care about.  At least it seems done for good now.  

The best part of that was, when she mentioned that Crane had forgotten about something, I was thinking, "Does he know her? Was she a big bad?" Then I remembered she existed. I completely forgot about her. It's nice that Crane had an experience where he got to "move on" from Katrina and try dating someone/anyone and now he is hopefully ready to be with Abbie because the writers have FINALLY (hopefully) decided to let the show go in that direction.

 

Joe and Jenny were boring.  Not sure why Joe thinks he can give advice about Jenny and her dad, just because he had his own strained relationship with his.  Sure, they seem to have a rough patch, but it didn't sound like Sheriff Corbin flat-out abandoned him like Jenny's dad did, so maybe be a bit more understanding, Joe.

 

Joe joined the marines to get away from Sheriff Corbin because he, according to his own observations, spent more time with Abbie (training her but he didn't know that nor did she) than he spent with him. That rough patch was from sometime before Joe left for the marines until he knew the truth about the Sheriff after his death. 

 

I get why Joe commented.  He likes Jenny, she likes him etc. they fight together, steal together and make out but beyond that, she did incorporate him into a plan to steal something from said father. (Which opened the door for conversation.) She then pulled out the thing she stole past its usefulness. If you really dislike someone you're probably not carrying around objects that remind you of them, especially since, (as he pointed out) she could have used her phone for light. 

 

Jenny did point out that he was a deadbeat and she didn't want to have coffee with her father.  He explained his Sheriff issue again but then she used "Abbie doesn't want to talk to him" as an excuse not to talk to him which isn't a great excuse and Jenny's expression did make seem like he was on to something and she was starting to realize it.  

 

My personal feelings and life experiences aside: Joe knows Jenny better than any of us do and her expression, the lighter and her Abbie excuse leans towards him being on the mark when he called her out on her wanting to speak to him but not attempting to because of her ego and not because she hates him.

Edited February 20, 2016 by FiveByFive

[Archery]

This is my BSC show.  I wasn't expecting the Kindred to kill the date girl  AND I didn't expect the HO to smash  the Kindreds out of existence.  I love that this show can still surprise me.

 

I get what Joe was going for. Jennie either has to resolve her feelings about her father or let it go.  The fact that she is carrying around her father's lighter and reached for it rather than her phone for light tells him that she is very conflicted about it.  She doesn't have to go beg him to be in her life or even forgive him, but she's eventually going to have to either confront him or cut him loose.  

 

I think the gang let the Kindreds go because the Kindred had satisfied his jealous rage by finding his wife, and they knew that he would return to a familiar place.  There was no real urgency to destroy  him once he scratched his itch.

 

Danny doesn't have enough years in the FBI to be either an ASAC or SAC.  It requires herculean suspension of disbelief so I la-la-la anytime he refers to him and Abbie being new agents together.  

 

One other thing I love about this show is that it is so gender-equal.  Kindred had no problem smashing and throwing around both Ichabod and Sophia.  So many times you see the male lead get the physical combat and the female lead escape it.  Not here.  

[DearEvette]

This was a good episode on so many levels --

 

- I like how they are using Abbie's time in the otherworld.  First as a way to showing her PTSD and her issues with re-adjusting and then as a way to use it as a jumping off point for the back half of the season.  You know that symbol she's writing means something and it probably portends some power of her own.  Also at the very top of the show when Abbie is playing chess alone, she is writing the symbol on the table there as well.  Except not in blood so she doesn't realize she's doing it.  Nice bit there.

 

- I like how they used the Kindred as a call back.  Thank you for picking that piece of unresolved plot back up.  Also for Ichabod taking the blame for his resurrection.  I think he called it "thoughtless inelegance."  And LOL, nobody contradicted him.   Recall, Ichabod's need to go haring off to rescue Katrina's sorry ass if the reason they raised him in the first place. 

 

- I dislike Busty Ross and find her useless.  But I do admit that if they had introduced her in the first place in a flashback like this one, I would have been less inclined to dismiss her as much.  Putting aside my disdain for the way she had been deployed, this was an actually good use of her in a flashback. 

 

- I agree with everyone who says that the send off of Zoe was more Ichabod than her.  He was 'fond' of her, but that was it.  If he could forget about her so completely in a month and half without even bothering to text her then that 'relationship' was nothing.  It is creating another brick in the road toward ichabbie frankly.  I also don't think this is over.  Her mentioning the "I told my brother in law to help you, I talked to my family about you...." tells me that she was waaaay more involved than he was.  I would bet that she is the type to cut off that resource.  We haven't heard much about Ichabod's citizenship lately but this will probably come back to bite him on that.    I mean, she walked into the archive and said "you are literally doing nothing." I don't know about the papers Hawley got him, but Ichabod isn't employed by the SHPD anymore and he's not a citizen and he's not a student  so.... he could be in danger of being deported of she's bitter enough or says something to her bro-in-law

 

- I am really liking the way they are incorporating Sophie.  She's a good actress and brings the right amount of belief and knowledge of the supernatural plus the right amount of 'holy shit you guys, I am still not quite belieiving some of the stuff you do..."

 

- Like how Abbie and Ichabod deploy their troops.  They assign Sophie to stuff and they assign J & J to other stuff... each suited to their strenghts.

 

- This would have been a nice time for Abbie to drop the "You know I met Franklin back when I went to the 1700s?  He was quite the sassy one!"  We don't know what if any conversation happened between Ichabod and Abbie about her going back in time and her meeting Capt. Crane.

 

- Yup.  it is just a matter of time before Pandy turns on her trifling 'True Love'.

 

- I am living for these quiet Ichabbie moments that seem to end each episode this season.  Also  I love how Tom Mison is making Ichabod look like he is just on fucking cloud nine now that Abbie is back.  His demeanour is just so happy cuz she's back!

 

These last two eps have been real home runs.

Edited February 20, 2016 by DearEvette

[MissAlmond]

When Mr. and Mrs. Kindred walked away from the flames, all I heard in my head was Phil Hartman saying "Fire bad!"

 

Pandora, didn't I tell you to call that lawyer?

 

Bye Zoe!  Please send a carriage so Betsy Ross can follow you.

[CooperTV]

I was more invested in the Kindred and the Kindred's Bride's love story than I ever had been interested in anything Joe/Jenny, Ichabod/Zoe or even Abbie/Ichabod related. HDU, show! You made the perfect ship for me and you threw it all away! I was rooting for them!

 

Speaking of Zoe: did we really need her being a creepy stalker to Ichabod? Maybe the writers were trying for parallels between her and the Kindred's obsessive desire for love ... Whatever, I'm just glad the Zoe thing is over, and Ichabod even apologized (again) for being an ass to her when HIS PARTNER WAS MUSSING AND HE ALMOST HAD A MENTAL BREAKDOWN OVER IT, JFC, ZOE, SHUT UP!11

 

Joe and Jenny were moderately cute together. But I hope Papa Mills has more to say to the sisters apart from "Oops?". This storyline isn't working for me so far.

 

Danny is useless (even so he has good chemistry with Abbie). Maybe he and Zoe should date and be useless together? Sophie being all "You should tell Abbie hoe you really feel" seems out of place to me as well.

 

Abbie doing her shutting down and shutting everyone out thing was in character but bit frustrating (hiding things related to the Witness business, however, was not IC!). I hope she'll share her experiences and emotions with Ichabod sooner rather than later. Because she was more open and warm with Danny than she was with her partner and that was creepy as hell.

 

Side note: while Ichabod was reading Grace Dickson's journal, Abbie was learning Franklin's code! Yay!

 

Side note 2: Pandora is halfway to signing divorce papers, I think. Try and get away from this abusive asshole, girl! (Or just kill him dead. That works too!).

[cassandle]

Also, I'm totally picturing Abbie and Crane as regulars for Colonial Times' Early Burr special.

 

I totally missed the Burr pun!  I thought he said "early bird" which got a chuckle out of me but isn't nearly as funny.  This makes me wish Colonial Times was a real place.

 

I'm confused about Danny.  I thought he was vaguely aware of the supernatural things going on in town and that Abbie was involved but was keeping his knowledge from her.  But now he's pissed at her for vanishing?  Didn't he know what happened to her or did I misunderstand a lot of his past scenes?  I thought he had Sophie undercover with Nevins and they knew he had supernatural dealings.  Or this whole time did they think he was a normal non-supernatural bad guy?

[Terrafamilia]

So...is Abbie a shadowhunter now?

 

Don't look at me, Pandora, I'm not the one who dragged your HO's sorry ass out of the underworld.

[catrox14]

Just now caught up with the episode.

 

Ichabod's face when he was trying to talk with Abbie about her recovery in the beginning.  That boy is SOOOO gone in love and twitterpated.  Oh lord amighty, he's got it bad and it's beautiful. I'm so happy.

 

And do my eyes deceive me or did they find a style for his hair that's reminiscient of the loose hair in the front like he had with a ponytail but no business in the back? Well done.

 

Also, this is the BSC show I need.  Of all the weird shit Abbie and Ichabod have seen they seemed more flummoxed by the Kindred being in love than anything LOL. 

 

Get rid of Busty Ross or at least reveal that she's out of her time because her speech and mannerisms are totally anachronistic to that time, like Ichabod's are to our time or rather were.

Edited February 20, 2016 by catrox14

[Cyranetta]

I find Betsy Ross, Pandora and Zoe distressingly hard to tell apart, so reducing their number by one may be a help.

 

I find NB even more stunning with her hair more natural, and It makes me think of Egyptian murals, which is a nice way of making her WItness status kind of timeless.

[topanga]

 

I'm confused about Danny.  I thought he was vaguely aware of the supernatural things going on in town and that Abbie was involved but was keeping his knowledge from her.  But now he's pissed at her for vanishing?  Didn't he know what happened to her or did I misunderstand a lot of his past scenes?  I thought he had Sophie undercover with Nevins and they knew he had supernatural dealings.  Or this whole time did they think he was a normal non-supernatural bad guy?

I think it was simply easier for Abbie to fool Danny and make him think everything is okay. And he believed her, since he had no idea what really happened to her. Crane, on the other hand, is the one person who knows that she spend 10 months in isolation and nearly lost her mind Abbie hates the idea of anyone, even Crane, knowing something so intimate about her--notice that she hasn't talked to Jenny (as far as we know) about what really went on while she was away. Abbie has a hard time being vulnerable with people. Wake TF up, Abbie! Crane is the perfect person to handle your vulnerability.

 

Abbie's leave of absence does confuse me, however. She's an active agent with the Federal government.  How can Danny explain away that Abbie was a no-show, no-call at work for an entire month? It's a small thing, I know, but I get frustrated by dropped plot points that can be explained by a simple line or two of dialogue. 

Edited February 20, 2016 by topanga

[Miss Dee]

Maybe he can cover it up. He didn't file her paperwork for her resignation, so if he claims she used up her vacation during that time and fixes the records to back it up, who's going to question it? We know he and Sophie were investigating her disappearance, but as long as it wasn't broadcast far and wide then they can probably fudge something.

[DearEvette]

Also, this is the BSC show I need.  Of all the weird shit Abbie and Ichabod have seen they seemed more flummoxed by the Kindred being in love than anything LOL.

 

I know.... I loved it.  The look on everybody face as they watched The Kindreds fall in love was truly hysterical.  As you say, I mean most recently Ichabod projected his astral body to an otherworld where Abbie just spent ten months and both of them are watching this like it is strangest thing they've ever seen.  LOL.

 

Abbie's leave of absence does confuse me, however. She's an active agent with the Federal government.  How can Danny explain away that Abbie was a no-show, no-call at work for an entire month? It's a small thing, I know, but I get frustrated by dropped plot points that can be explained by a simple line or two of dialogue. 

 

I don;t know how the FBI works, but how often does a field agent have to check in?  Especially one who is working undercover like Sophie was?  When Abbie handed in her resignation, Sophie told Daniel that Abbie raided a bunch of weapons.  So Danny already knew something was up with Abbie's abrupt resignation.  It is obvious he covered for her and as the head of the SH office, he is actually in the best position to do so, so as to not raise any flags to higher ups.  He most likely covered for her there and used  Sophie to discreetly investigate her just in case.    

[Enero]

Really, Danny had no choice but to cover for Abbie, unless he wanted her to be charged and end up in prison for illegally taking weapons from the FBI armory when she was no longer an agent. Like he told her, what she did by resigning then taking all those weapons was illegal. If the truth had been learned she would've had more trouble than just the Kindred when she returned. 

 

Something else I noticed when rewatching the episode, Abbie referenced Cast Away when referring to her time in the Catacombs. Crane was completely confused by  this reference likely because he's not seen the movie, but she called him 'her Wilson' which referred to the volleyball Tom Hanks' character "befriended" while he was stranded on the deserted island. Though it was a serious moment, in that Abbie was trying to deflect Crane from pushing her to open up about her experience in the Catacombs, there 'my Wilson' comment was cute. 

Edited February 21, 2016 by Enero

[Sparger Springs]

I was hoping the references to Franklin meant we would see him again in the flashback but sadly we didn’t.

 

Danny continues to indicate that both he and Abbie trained together at the same time.  That was what, 2-3 years ago.  NO ONE rises up the ranks of the FBI as fast as Danny apparently has.

Danny being her boss is just sloppy writing. They could've made him an instructor or something. In real life he and Abby would still be doing basic background checks. 

[CocoaGoddess]

Point of Discussion: The burning of the cabin where Katrina spent so much of her time with Abraham = "mea culpa, we promise to erase the very stains of these memories and we swear we'll never do this again, baby please come home!" from the writers?

 

Not to mention never directly mentioning Katrina by name anymore.

 

"Where Abraham kept his bride."

 

I howled. You mean, where ABRAHAM KEPT KATRINA, right? I mean, I'm fine with it. But the shade ... so delicious. 

 

I'm slow sometimes, but I just realized that Betsy Ross is a stand in for Katrina. SHE would be in all of these scenes now. And if they hadn't gone all fire and brimstone in season 2, Katrina could have co-existed nicely on this show, in the past. Where she belongs. 

 

Oh well. 

[Enero]

Not to mention never directly mentioning Katrina by name anymore.

 

"Where Abraham kept his bride."

 

I howled. You mean, where ABRAHAM KEPT KATRINA, right? I mean, I'm fine with it. But the shade ... so delicious. 

 

 

 

Actually Abbie stated "that's where the Headless Horseman tried to keep his own bride," which was even better. Neither Abraham nor Katrina were mentioned by name. TPTB thankfully shut the door on the debacle that was that storyline in 3x5 when Crane made one last statement about what Katrina was to him then moved on from her by asking Zoey out at the end of the episode. 

Edited February 21, 2016 by Enero