S01.E03: The Dream Team

[starri]

The Manson family death sentences were commuted not because of anything California did, but because the Supreme Court threw out the death penalty nationwide as arbitrary and unconstitutional.  They reinstated the option of the death penalty several years later.

It wasn't the SCOTUS that did that.  It was the California Supreme Court ruling it being against the state constitution.   Which was immediately followed by a referendum that amended the constitution to state that it wasn't.

[Ina123]

I'm white and I was 44 when the murders happened. Although I had to work during the day I was home by 3pm and with the trial being west coast I got to see most of it because of the time difference. I've always been into true crime so I lived and breathed the trial. The remarkable line between how blacks and whites viewed it was long before the verdict. TV shows had African-American guests and white guests. All you had to do was listen and you could see the divide. They would discuss the trial and white guests would see Clark/Darden as doing well and AA guests would see the Dream Team doing better.

 

At that time, not everyone had a computer or email. We didn't have computer forums to vent and share our thoughts somewhat anonymously. Remember Windows 95 had just been released. Before Windows 95 we were mostly using Netscape and a limited number of people were using "newsgroups", the forerunner of forums like this. (Anyone feeling a little old right now? LOL) No smartphones. No texting.

 

So we mostly just had friends and family to discuss it. Maybe it was the circle I ran in, but we wouldn't have called anyone a bitch except in a very low whisper and to a close friend only. 20 years ago we were just a more polite society. What I remember clearly is how many people, white and black, made fun of Clark's hair. The actual truth is, if you were white, you were rooting for the prosecution. If you were black, you rooted for the defense. Even in 95 with all the progress in civil rights we were separate on the issue. Rodney King and the riots had just happened. The wounds were still raw. It was still a tense time.

 

F. Lee Bailey and Dershowitz were very well known. "Flea", as some call him, was the goto guy for comments on trials because of his defense of Sam Shepard and the Boston Strangler. Besides the Von Bulow case, Dershowitz had won an appeal for PTL's Jim Bakker to lower his sentence. Neither was camera shy. Outside of LA I don't think anyone knew Shapiro or Cochran. The Michael Jackson trial was 10 years away.

 

This was way before PC. Calling anyone "large" and "strong" would not have been given a second thought.

 

Mark Furhman was forced to use the Fifth Amendment on ALL the questions because you can't be selective when you use it. Use it for one question...use it for all questions. It makes anyone who uses it look like a very bad person. In other words if he was asked "Did you lie when you testified you never used the n word" and he used the 5th, then he has to use the 5th if he's asked "did you plant the glove at Rockingham?" At least that's the way it has been explained to me. You can't be selective about what you answer and what you won't. So, while the 5th might keep the witness from being found guilty of a crime, it can taint the case where you are testifying.

 

Oh, and smoking like a chimney was not unusual. My uncle had a 3 pack a day habit. He died at 82 of a heart attack. We have no pictures of him without a cigarette in his mouth or between his fingers. Smokers made us all stink like cigs. I would be home all day where no one smoked. I'd take a shower to go bowling then come home and my mom would want me to leave my clothes outside. LOL.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Ina123

[DangerousMinds]

Back then, I thought Marcia Clark kicked ass, and when I watch her portrayal on this show, I think exactly the same.

[Petunia13]

It's on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHf93uxgKBI

That is so terrifying.

[Mrs. P.]

As Gerry Spence said at the time, everybody knew he was a murderer. People shunned him. His career was finished. He lost his precious house. And he behaved like a clown again and now he's in jail for the rest of his life. That verdict was a tiny reprieve in the hell that his life became.

YMMV.

Actually, he's eligible for parole before 2020, IIRC. It will be interesting to see if his application for parole is granted.

[MissScarlett]

Is it just me or is this show turning into the American Kardashian story?

[smiley13]

On this show, Marcia Clark is not coming off very well.  She appears to be an arrogant woman who thought she had a slam dunk case.  She seemed to hate OJ Simpson and has been shown making stupid comments like the one about a jury of his peers.  For someone who claimed to not know anything about him beforehand, she was certainly like a rabid dog in her hatred of him.

[ketose]

So we mostly just had friends and family to discuss it. Maybe it was the circle I ran in, but we wouldn't have called anyone a bitch except in a very low whisper and to a close friend only. 20 years ago we were just a more polite society. What I remember clearly is how many people, white and black, made fun of Clark's hair. The actual truth is, if you were white, you were rooting for the prosecution. If you were black, you rooted for the defense. Even in 95 with all the progress in civil rights we were separate on the issue. Rodney King and the riots had just happened. The wounds were still raw. It was still a tense time.

Some of us will remember the day Marcia Clark started wearing straight hair at the trial. That was a story for about a week. I wonder how ACS will handle that.

Edited February 21, 2016 by ketose

[SFoster21]

On this show, Marcia Clark is not coming off very well. She appears to be an arrogant woman who thought she had a slam dunk case. She seemed to hate OJ Simpson and has been shown making stupid comments like the one about a jury of his peers. For someone who claimed to not know anything about him beforehand, she was certainly like a rabid dog in her hatred of him.

She's a prosecutor, not a priest. She has to make a case to lock him up for life. Her mindset has to be winning. Her compassion is saved for the victims.

[Umbelina]

Actually, he's eligible for parole before 2020, IIRC. It will be interesting to see if his application for parole is granted.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/life-oj-simpson-20-years/story?id=24058397 He's eligible for parole in October, 2017.  So in a little over a year and a half.

 

On this show, Marcia Clark is not coming off very well.  She appears to be an arrogant woman who thought she had a slam dunk case.  She seemed to hate OJ Simpson and has been shown making stupid comments like the one about a jury of his peers.  For someone who claimed to not know anything about him beforehand, she was certainly like a rabid dog in her hatred of him.

She heard Nicole on the police tapes screaming for help.  She saw from police records how many times the police were called to the house and did nothing.  She saw the photos of the beaten Nicole in 1989.  She saw how Nicole and Ron were butchered.  It wasn't about hatred, it was about justice for those victims, although hatred would have certainly been understandable.

[MargotWendice]

She heard Nicole on the police tapes screaming for help.  She saw from police records how many times the police were called to the house and did nothing.  She saw the photos of the beaten Nicole in 1989.  She saw how Nicole and Ron were butchered.  It wasn't about hatred, it was about justice for those victims, although hatred would have certainly been understandable.

With so much physical evidence, the domestic violence history, plus the suspect basically making a run for it in front of the entire nation, any prosecutor would think they had a slum dunk case. And I agree that she probably didn't hate OJ but saw him as a cold-blooded murderer, and responded to him accordingly.

Edited February 21, 2016 by MargotWendice

[StatisticalOutlier]

 

Small question. ACS has been used a couple times in this thread. What does it stand for?

 

American Crime Story

 

Ah. I don't watch that. Thanks, GB!

 

Ha!  Looks like they got their budget wrong.  Should have been a lot more into branding, especially if it took away from the budget for incessant swooping and swirling camera shots.

[BW Manilowe]

With so much physical evidence, the domestic violence history, plus the suspect basically making a run for it in front of the entire nation, any prosecutor would think they had a slum dunk case. And I agree that she probably didn't hate OJ but saw him as a cold-blooded murderer, and responded to him accordingly.

Exactly. She didn't hate OJ the famous ex-football player/celebrity. She hated the type of criminal OJ had been shown to be (domestic abuser) & the type of criminal he was still alleged, but not yet proven, to be (murderer of Nicole & Ron Goldman).

Edited February 22, 2016 by BW Manilowe

[Daisy head]

As an aside, this series has a great soundtrack - I'm hearing so many songs I loved and had forgotten about.  I love, too, how they are appropriate for the instance - Sadness, Sabotage, Said I Loved You But I Lied, We're in This Love Together (OK, that one's a stretch, but I really love it).  Not sure how Girl From Ipanema fits in, though.

[Neurochick]

On this show, Marcia Clark is not coming off very well.  She appears to be an arrogant woman who thought she had a slam dunk case.  She seemed to hate OJ Simpson and has been shown making stupid comments like the one about a jury of his peers.  For someone who claimed to not know anything about him beforehand, she was certainly like a rabid dog in her hatred of him.

 

I think what Clark hated was the crime itself.  Remember she didn't know anything about football, she didn't even know OJ played football. 

 

It's interesting for me to watch this movie, I was in my 30's when this happened, in fact Nicole and I were born in the same year.  One of the things that always skeeved me out about OJ and still does today, is that he left his first wife for Nicole, who was a teenager at the time.  Now, I imagine that she was probably a star struck teenager, but what kind of sleaze does that?  I mean if this happened today, he'd be called all types of names.

 

20 years ago we were just a more polite society.

 

I have to disagree with that because a lot of shit was considered pretty acceptable back then, that people would not accept today.  Watch TV shows from the 80's and 90's, a lot of content would never make it on network TV today.  I don't think that magazine cover of OJ being made darker would have made it today.  

[DangerousMinds]

As an aside, this series has a great soundtrack - I'm hearing so many songs I loved and had forgotten about.  I love, too, how they are appropriate for the instance - Sadness, Sabotage, Said I Loved You But I Lied, We're in This Love Together (OK, that one's a stretch, but I really love it).  Not sure how Girl From Ipanema fits in, though.

I love all of Ryan Murphy's show soundtracks, way back to Nip/Tuck. He always gets those right.

 

The slow speed chase with "Sabotage" playing in the background was brilliant.

Edited February 22, 2016 by DangerousMinds

[RemoteControlFreak]

On this show, Marcia Clark is not coming off very well.  She appears to be an arrogant woman who thought she had a slam dunk case.  She seemed to hate OJ Simpson and has been shown making stupid comments like the one about a jury of his peers.  For someone who claimed to not know anything about him beforehand, she was certainly like a rabid dog in her hatred of him.

Her arrogance, which I interpret as confidence, and hatred are displayed accurately, if my memory serves.

 

The crime was brutal and the evidence overwhelming.  She had ample reason to believe that Simpson was both a brutal double murderer who tried to flee to California leaving his young children behind, and that he would easily be convicted.  Hence the arrogance/confidence and hatred.

 

She didn't have to know why he was famous or about his football career to dislike the crime he committed and to be confident about the ability to get a conviction.

 

In other news, there were too many anachronisms in this episode:

 

1. Glasses.  It should be easy enough to outfit actors with eyeglasses appropriate for 1994, but again we have Shapiro, the Time magazine photo guy, and one of the girls in the car flashing Kato wearing modern style eyeglasses.

 

2. As someone else mentioned, I don't think Gil Garcetti would use the term "optics" in 1994.

 

3. In the scene at the car wash where people are listening to the broadcast of Nicole's 911 calls, there are modern cars in the background, most noticeably a Prius.

 

4. Smoking was banned in all California workplaces as of January 1, 1995.  Smoking was likely discouraged, if not banned outright, six months earlier, yet Marcia Clark continues to light up in her office. We'll have to see if she quits when the law goes into effect.  This episode took place in the fall of 1994.

Edited February 23, 2016 by RemoteControlFreak

[RemoteControlFreak]

I agree. The King video--what the hell was that? HOW could they have refused to convict? That video is sickening. Appalling dereliction of civic duty. I can't remember, were the SImi Valley cops brought up on Federal charges?

The cops in the Rodney King beating case were LAPD not Simi Valley cops.

 

Simi Valley was where the trial was moved because of a claim that media coverage in Los Angeles had unduly influenced the jury pool.  

 

This is, of course, ridiculous.  The entire country, maybe world, saw the video of King's beating.  Moving the case 30 miles away only served to have the jury made up of suburban white people rather than urban African Americans.   And the criticism of this is what Garcetti wanted to avoid by moving the Simpson trial in the opposite direction,  from white, middle class (or higher) Santa Monica to downtown LA. 

[smiley13]

 One of the things that always skeeved me out about OJ and still does today, is that he left his first wife for Nicole, who was a teenager at the time.  Now, I imagine that she was probably a star struck teenager, but what kind of sleaze does that?  I mean if this happened today, he'd be called all types of names.

The same kind of sleaze who goes after a married man.......

 

They were a toxic pair from the start.

Edited February 23, 2016 by smiley13

[DangerousMinds]

OJ persued Nicole, a teenager. And he was the one who had taken marital vows.

[kassa]

I don't know about Marcia Clark not knowing about OJ. I find it hard to believe that ANY adult with any semblance of connection to popular culture would not have known precisely who he was, no football knowledge required. He had been a household name for more than 20 years at that point, back into her youth (so it's not like he came on the scene when she was absorbed in law school or early in her profession.)

I don't know the teams they played for or anything about their stats, but I know who Wayne Gretzky and Wilt Chamberlain were, and OJ was way more omnipresent in pop culture than either. Hell, even his commercials for rental cars were so mainstream THEY were parodied constantly - " running thru the airport like OJ" was a thing.

Edited February 23, 2016 by kassa

[Milburn Stone]

The cops in the Rodney King beating case were LAPD not Simi Valley cops.

 

Simi Valley was where the trial was moved because of a claim that media coverage in Los Angeles had unduly influenced the jury pool.  

 

This is, of course, ridiculous.  The entire country, maybe world, saw the video of King's beating.  Moving the case 30 miles away only served to have the jury made up of suburban white people rather than urban African Americans.   And the criticism of this is what Garcetti wanted to avoid by moving the Simpson trial in the opposite direction,  from white, middle class (or higher) Santa Monica to downtown LA. 

 

Yes. And in this light, Garcetti's decision to try the OJ case downtown was not strictly a "political" one. While it's true that in some sense it was an appeal for African-American votes in the next election, it's also true that he didn't really have a choice if he wanted to have a career. He would have been crucified for any other decision. So it wasn't a bone-headed error driven by political ambition, any more than not running through your office naked and setting yourself on fire would be a bone-headed error driven by political ambition. I think the show is a little unfair in its implication that it was a vanity-driven move.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Milburn Stone

[RemoteControlFreak]

OJ persued Nicole, a teenager. And he was the one who had taken marital vows.

It's not clear who pursued who or if it was a mutual attraction. Nicole was young but completely capable of knowing that she was dating a married man.  While OJ Simpson was later shown to be a vile human being, in 1977 Nicole made the decision to date an older married man. She was not a victim.

Yes. And in this light, Garcetti's decision to try the OJ case downtown was not strictly a "political" one. While it's true that in some sense it was an appeal for African-American votes in the next election, it's also true that he didn't really have a choice if he wanted to have a career. He would have been crucified for any other decision. So it wasn't a bone-headed error driven by political ambition, any more than not running through your office naked and setting yourself on fire would be a bone-headed error driven by political ambition. I think the show is a little unfair in its implication that it was a vanity-driven move.

I don't agree. Why would people have criticized for having the case tried in the area where the crime occurred?

 

Garcetti over-reacted and mis-judged the difficulty his office would have winning the case against Simpson's lawyers. 

[Funzlerks]

Several DAs have commented that it was inevitable to bring the case downtown as all other venues, including Santa Monica, were ill-equipped to handle long and very-sensational cases. It was extraordinary to move the Rodney King case away, so to do that twice would maybe start unrest. I think some, like Bugliosi, have been a little disingenuous with the idea that the DA could have fought that battle. What they should have focused on, IMO

is getting a different judge than Ito. Again, the 90s were different that when Bugliosi ruled the roost so unseating an Asian judge may not have played well. Also, they could have selected a better jury given the location but they did not listen to advice.

[Ina123]

Ina123 said

...we mostly just had friends and family to discuss it. Maybe it was the circle I ran in, but we wouldn't have called anyone a bitch except in a very low whisper and to a close friend only. 20 years ago we were just a more polite society.

 

 

Neurochick said

I have to disagree with that because a lot of shit was considered pretty acceptable back then, that people would not accept today.  Watch TV shows from the 80's and 90's, a lot of content would never make it on network TV today.  I don't think that magazine cover of OJ being made darker would have made it today.  

I wasn't talking about political correctness as in sexist or racist comments or graphics. I was talking about what was considered vulgar language 20 years ago in polite society that seems perfectly acceptable today. "Bitch" happens to be one of those words. We hear it constantly on TV and in open, everyday conversation today. It just wasn't used like that 20 years ago. The 3 major networks ABC, NBC, and CBS could not even use the word in a show back then. This was the time when cable TV was in it's infancy.

[susannot]

I don't think Marcia Clark is coming off as a bitch in this show either; and I didn't think she was a bitch during the trial.

I agree. I was a practicing trial attorney at the time and I related to her, admired her, and respected her.  That said, most of the lawyers in my office, black and white, thought as the trial progressed that the prosecution was getting clobbered by the Dream Team.

 

I'm glad that Marcia survived what had to be the insane levels of stress of the trial and her incessant chain smoking.  I enjoy her current crime novels featuring LA prosecutor Rachel Knight.

[Margherita Erdman]

Some of us will remember the day Marcia Clark started wearing straight hair at the trial. That was a story for about a week. I wonder how ACS will handle that.

I always found it hugely ironic — in all of the troubling, toxic, and downright surreal crosscurrents of race and gender and class that surfaced to swirl around this case (swirling still, you can see it skimming the forums here) — that Marcia Clark, an educated white woman, was relentlessly, brutally criticized for the way she wore her hair, as if that decision called everything else about her into question — her intelligence, her common sense, her ability to make herself presentable in polite society, her claim to speak for "the people."

It's such a perfect, unconscious reflection of the mountains of shit and shame and judgment heaped on women of African descent living in Western culture for having curly, kinky, unruly hair.

[ennui]

OJ persued Nicole, a teenager. And he was the one who had taken marital vows.

None of us were there. We don’t know the details of who seduced who (whom?).

I think young, beautiful women and older, wealthy men have been pairing up since the dawn of time, and there’s no sense in pointing fingers or placing blame. OJ certainly wouldn’t be the first man to dump his wife for a newer model. 

I think Ralph Fiennes dumped his wife for an older woman. Kris’s husband dumped her because he wanted to be a woman. I digress; the point being, couples break up.

[VanillaBeanne]

I think Marcia Clark had to deal with much sexism, but let's not attribute all the criticism of her hair to sexism. That perm was beyond awful. It's like Donald Trump hair bad. And no one wore their hair like that in the 90s. The Rachel it was not. People are going to mock that hairdo.

But I agree, the focus on her wardrobe, her demeanor, the condescending way the judges and defense spoke to her. Sexism.

Edited February 24, 2016 by VanillaBeanne

[suomi]

None of us were there. We don’t know the details of who seduced who (whom?).

 

OJ's friends provided the details re his infatuation with 18-year-old Nicole. He brought them to The Daisy day after day so they could see this waitress he was raving about. She was a good server and she was also a smartass and she gave him shit. He flirted and she flirted back, but she wasn't terribly impressed and she knew nothing about football or his sports career. He asked her out a few times and she turned him down and then one day she said yes. She knew he was 30 years old but not that he was married and had a pregnant wife. Eventually he told Nicole the old story: trapped in a loveless marriage, tricked into another pregnancy during a reconciliation, yadda yadda. He was the pursuer, he was the seducer. He was a man and she was a kid. He "raised" his perfect woman; he finished forming her personality. He made her feel loved while also instilling doubt and fear. He gave with one hand and took away with the other. Some of these relationships survive, most do not. Most of these women survive, some do not.

[biakbiak]

It's like Donald Trump hair bad. And no one wore their hair like that in the 90s. The Rachel it was not

There was that hair in the 90s, not saying it looked good but there is ton of photographic evidence of women with similar looks. Also, Friends was only on the air for a month when the jury was sworn in so the Rachel wasn't even a thing during these scenes. I imagine the week of coverage that occurred when she straightened her hair will be shown.

Edited February 24, 2016 by biakbiak

[VanillaBeanne]

There was that hair in the 90s, not saying it looked good but there is ton of photographic evidence of women with similar looks. Also, Friends was only on the air for a month when the jury was sworn in so the Rachel wasn't even a thing during these scenes. I imagine the week of coverage that occurred when she straightened her hair will be shown.

Let's say we remember the 90s hair fashions differently. Aniston wore her hair in a shag - highly shaped and straight from 1994 to 1996. The fact that that type of hair style was popular at roughly the same time lends credence to my argument that an un shapely head of dried, badly permed locks was never a look that people clipped out of magazines and brought to their hairdresser. I remember seeing Marcia Clark for the first time and thinking when did white people start wearing Jheri curls?

The hair was going to be mocked not because people are mysogynistic (they are) or because no one else in America wore their hair like that in the 90s (Samuel L. Jackson did in Pulp Fiction) but because her Clark's hair was dreadful and unfortunate...even for 1994. Her wardrobe not so much, but that was critiqued as well so I don't disagree that Clarke had to contend with sexist and misogynistic attitudes.

Edited February 24, 2016 by VanillaBeanne

[BBDi]

In a recent interview Marcia talks about her perm and says it was all about having "wash and wear" hair. If you've ever had a perm, you know what she's talking about. You get out of the shower and maybe a scrunch it with your fingers and you are good to go. Looks the same every day - there are no bad hair days, except for the fact that every day is a bad hair day.

Prob seemed like a good idea at the time for a single mom with a demanding job and 2 little kids. You can tell from her clothes that she wasn't particularly fashionable. I doubt she made a ton of money, either. I know hundreds of very smart, accomplished women who love their work and just don't think that much about their exteriors. I fall into that category myself. So I feel you, Marcia.

It shouldn't matter as much as it does. But it does. I have a female relative who's dealt with the same stuff, but she's in private practice and makes shitloads of money and just outsources caring about her appearance to others.

Ironically, post-OJ Marcia figured it out and looks quite different.

[Special K]

In a recent interview Marcia talks about her perm and says it was all about having "wash and wear" hair. If you've ever had a perm, you know what she's talking about.

 

During the 80s and 90s, lots of women wore perms for just this reason. Hairdressers would frequently suggest a perm if you wanted easy hair or didn't have time to or interest in fussing with it.  

 

Hell, my hair is quite curly, and hairdressers (more than one) suggested I get a perm so my hair would be "easier."   Also, women with thin/straight hair -- the flat-iron look was not a thing back then, and people were always trying to give their hair more body.  Perming was often how they did that.

 

I hate to say it, but appearance, outfits, clothes, grooming, purses -- all of that is WAY more important now then it was then in the typical professional setting (I'm old enough to know).  A lot of women just made do, put them selves together neatly and professionally, and went about their jobs. Marcia Clark always struck me that way.

 

ETA:  I also think that the acceptance for dressing sexy or alluring or overtly feminine in a professional setting is much more recent.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Special K

[ennui]

OJ's friends provided the details re his infatuation with 18-year-old Nicole. He brought them to The Daisy day after day so they could see this waitress he was raving about. She was a good server and she was also a smartass and she gave him shit. He flirted and she flirted back, but she wasn't terribly impressed and she knew nothing about football or his sports career. He asked her out a few times and she turned him down and then one day she said yes. She knew he was 30 years old but not that he was married and had a pregnant wife. Eventually he told Nicole the old story: trapped in a loveless marriage, tricked into another pregnancy during a reconciliation, yadda yadda. He was the pursuer, he was the seducer. He was a man and she was a kid. He "raised" his perfect woman; he finished forming her personality. He made her feel loved while also instilling doubt and fear. He gave with one hand and took away with the other. Some of these relationships survive, most do not. Most of these women survive, some do not.

I don't believe Nicole was "a kid." Young, yes, but she was a beautiful woman, and I doubt it was her first rodeo. She had to be strong to get into an interracial relationship, which was still uncommon in the 1980s when they started dating.

 

Sounds like the classic game of hard-to-get. "A man pursues a woman until she catches him.” If she really wasn’t interested, she would have asked another server to take OJ’s table.

[DangerousMinds]

She was a teenager. And interracial relationships were not that uncommon, if I recall correctly. I had one in the early 90's and it was absolutely no big deal to anyone.

OJ was the one who had taken marital vows of fidelity, not Nicole. I'm sure OJ told Nicole all kinds of stories about his marriage, probably untrue, but that's all she knew. She wasn't breaking any promises or vows to anyone. That's all on OJ.

[Umbelina]

They met in 1977.  I think she was a hostess, since she couldn't have served drinks, as she was only 18.  Simpson divorced his wife in 1979.  Nicole and Simpson were together from 1977, married in 1985, until their divorce in 1992, and of course, they tried to reconcile several times after that.  So it was a 17 year relationship, 7 of those married.

[starri]

 

They met in 1977.  I think she was a hostess, since she couldn't have served drinks, as she was only 18.

Drinking age would have been 18 in 1977.

[Umbelina]

Interesting.  Do you know what year it changed?  I was there a bit earlier in the seventies and couldn't order a drink.

[MargotWendice]

Interesting.  Do you know what year it changed?  I was there a bit earlier in the seventies and couldn't order a drink.

In California it has pretty much always been 21.

[starri]

I stand corrected.  I'm honestly surprised that there were parts of country with 21 as the drinking age prior to the Drinking Age Act.

 

Well, I've learned something today.

[Asp Burger]

Outside of LA I don't think anyone knew Shapiro or Cochran. The Michael Jackson trial was 10 years away.

 

I have to disagree with this. Cochran was a very popular "talking head" on television, so he was a recognizable face from that alone, about on the level of Gloria Allred. Also, his representation of Michael Jackson in the trial that was ten years away was not his first association with Jackson. He had represented him in the 1993 molestation suit too, the one Jackson ultimately settled. Cochran had also defended Todd Bridges. Shapiro had been on several high-profile cases involving celebrities or their relatives, such as Marlon Brando's son.  

 

You can tell from her clothes that she wasn't particularly fashionable. I doubt she made a ton of money, either.

 

Clark was doing pretty well financially. Toobin's book said she was making $90,000 per year before her most recent promotion prior to the Simpson case, which raised her to the six figures range. Admittedly, L.A. is an expensive place to live, but it was also more than 20 years ago.

 

I agree that fashion wasn't that important to her and that she wasn't stylish, though.  

Edited February 29, 2016 by Asp Burger

[rho]

I stand corrected.  I'm honestly surprised that there were parts of country with 21 as the drinking age prior to the Drinking Age Act.

 

Well, I've learned something today.

 

I only know this answer because my dad's younger brother was able to legally drink in college on the east coast, while he had to wait two years living in the Bay Area. Drinking age in CA has been 21 since prohibition was overturned. However, it's legal to serve alcohol at ages 18-21 as long as the establishment doesn't primarily serve liquor (i.e. restaurants, country clubs, hotels, etc).

[MonicaM]

I think what Clark hated was the crime itself.  Remember she didn't know anything about football, she didn't even know OJ played football. 

 

It's interesting for me to watch this movie, I was in my 30's when this happened, in fact Nicole and I were born in the same year.  One of the things that always skeeved me out about OJ and still does today, is that he left his first wife for Nicole, who was a teenager at the time.  Now, I imagine that she was probably a star struck teenager, but what kind of sleaze does that?  I mean if this happened today, he'd be called all types of names.

 

I have to disagree with that because a lot of shit was considered pretty acceptable back then, that people would not accept today.  Watch TV shows from the 80's and 90's, a lot of content would never make it on network TV today.  I don't think that magazine cover of OJ being made darker would have made it today.  

I agree that today, they would be strongly criticized.  They would have been called on their behavior at the time, but their relationship wasn't well known publicly.  In the early 90's, there were no 24 hour a day news programs looking for stories, and the internet was just beginning to become widely used.  Most of us knew OJ from football or his movies or commercials, but had no knowledge of his personal life.  It was shocking to hear the 911 tapes partly because we had no reason to believe OJ was anything but the handsome guy running through airports, or the comedic relief in films.  

 

Today, those tapes would have been leaked to the public long before the murders happened, and internet celebrity news sites would have had hints of serious trouble between the two of them.  

[Carolina Girl]

On The View, Cuba Gooding, Jr. Said he was elated when he heard OJ was acquitted. He didn't care whether he was guilty or not. He said the first time he cared was when he did the scene for the movie when he was standing over the casket.

I think that's how his defense attorneys probably felt. But, I guess that's the way they have to feel. They know their client is guilty and work to get them off anyway. It's their chosen profession. Johnnie Cochran had to have known OJ was guilty.

 

And Shapiro and Kardashian were present when the polygraph examiner told them both that OJ had gotten the worst score possible.  Those two KNEW he did it.  But the gravy train would stop for "Robert Cordovian" if OJ went to jail.

[WescottF1]

I wasn't talking about political correctness as in sexist or racist comments or graphics. I was talking about what was considered vulgar language 20 years ago in polite society that seems perfectly acceptable today. "Bitch" happens to be one of those words. We hear it constantly on TV and in open, everyday conversation today. It just wasn't used like that 20 years ago. The 3 major networks ABC, NBC, and CBS could not even use the word in a show back then. This was the time when cable TV was in it's infancy.

 

Actually, it was used here and there in shows as far back as the early 80s.  I distinctly remember hearing it on NBC - once on Hill Street Blues when a SWAT sniper did a guy in and said, "Got you, you sonofabitch!"  But you are definitely spot on as far as how ubiquitous it is nowadays.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One thing that I have been loving about this series is all the 90s songs in the background. The Michael Bolton one while they were out for Father's Day cracked me up.

On 2/23/2016 at 11:10 AM, Ina123 said:

I wasn't talking about political correctness as in sexist or racist comments or graphics. I was talking about what was considered vulgar language 20 years ago in polite society that seems perfectly acceptable today. "Bitch" happens to be one of those words. We hear it constantly on TV and in open, everyday conversation today. It just wasn't used like that 20 years ago. The 3 major networks ABC, NBC, and CBS could not even use the word in a show back then. This was the time when cable TV was in it's infancy.

The word bitch was used on network tv in the 90s. I remember it was used pretty frequently on Friends (which aired on NBC at 8pm) even in the first season in 1994. The word bitch was also used on My So-Called Life, which aired at 8pm in 1994 on ABC and was aimed at teenagers. I also remember bitch being used on Moonlighting which began airing a decade earlier on ABC (it was definitely used in the pilot in 1985 and again in the episode where Maddie and David slept together for the first time in 1987).