S01.E03: The Dream Team

[Tara Ariano]

Marcia reveals O.J. is charged; Robert Shapiro seeks advice from F. Lee Baily and creates a provocative strategy and tries to convince O.J. to hire Johnnie Cochran.

[SoSueMe]

K kids right out of the gate.

[Spartan Girl]

I guess it would be too much for the Children of the Corn to be upset that Uncle Juice was on trial for Aunt Nicole's murder.

I don't know if Robert ever gave them such sage advice in real life, but it obviously fell on deaf ears.

[mytmo]

Coming up on a very special Keeping up with Kardashians

[SoSueMe]

Hmmm, is that Pat McKenna Casey Anthony's current housemate?

[mytmo]

With the constant insertion of the K kids, John Travolta's circus barker acting & funhouse face & the quality of a Lifetime/ID movie of the week I'm out.

Marcia Clarke's ridiculous wig put me over the edge.

I'll keep reading the threads though

Edited February 17, 2016 by mytmo

[SimoneS]

Another great episode. I am still loving the score. I had forgotten that OJ was everywhere on every magazine and newspaper cover and how they darkened his skin. 

 

John Travolta stood out in this episode. Shapiro's reaction to the news of Mark Furman's racism was classic and made me laugh. Shapiro borrows from Cochran and uses Furman's racism to create a conspiracy to counter the media that had OJ convicted. Talk about calculating.

 

I love it when Marsha said that OJ deserved a jury of his peers, rich white men. Bwah. Then, OJ's says, "I'm not black, I'm O.J." Unbelievable. Bailey calling out Dershowitz's smugness and constantly talking about Harvard which is so true.

 

OJ's lawyers' strategy meeting shows how only rich people can really get the best defense in the legal system. It is hard to believe that Clark and her colleagues were so naive and didn't see that the threat that high power team of defense lawyers posed. I don't buy that Marsha inviting Darden to charge AC was so innocently. It had to be motivated by Darden's skin color.

 

David Schwimmer is still wonderful. I enjoyed how earnestly he played the scene of Robert Kardashian with his kids and then, the tense scene with his estranged wife.

 

I loved Cochran getting punked. You can just tell he was itching to get involved in the OJ case. I don't believe for a second that he bought that O.J. didn't do it. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by SimoneS

[Mya Stone]

When Cuba was with Johnnie saying, "I didn't do it, I swear I didn't do it" - he chose to look down with every declaration. That's a really interesting acting choice (to show deception).

Also holy shit the F-bomb.

Reading the book I'm reading I can see where some things were fictionalized but...it's still great TV.

Welcome to playing another Jewish lawyer, Evan. Nice to see you.

Also Nathan Lane is SURPRISNGLY good in this. In that he's not really overplaying Bailey.

Can anyone confirm that those were, in fact, the real 911 tapes? They sounded a LOT like them - but I have the volume down as my four year old is asleep on my couch while I watched it.

[Spartan Girl]

"Motherfucker." Omg I can't believe that got past the censors! But I agree with the sentiment, Marcia.

I wonder if Cochran, towards the end of his life, ever realized he got a guilty man free. I wonder if he even cared.

[FuriousStyles]

This episode the kids were actually used constructively, so I didnt have an issue with them being included.

Im really feeling bad for Marcia Clark. She was clearly trying to run a tight ship despite the case being a "slam dunk", and there was just fuck up after fuck up all around her. What surprises me is that the DA's office KNEW before the trial that the defense was going to make this a race trial. I was under the impression it was kind of a surprise attack when the trial ready started.

Had to laugh at Shapiro and Bailey talking about Dershowitz's celebrity since literally right before this episode I was watching him on CNN talk about the Supreme Court/Scalia stuff. The man has really stood the test of time.

So when Dershowitz goes on about the legend of OJ and how they have to get him out of jail before the public forgets, RK jumps in "excuse me, OJ will never stop being the juice". Dershowitz give him this look and I fully expected him to say "and who are you again?"

Im black, and I've seen that Time mag cover over the years and it never occurred to me that they altered the photograph to make OJ look more darker and hence more menacing or whatever the case is. I assumed they did it to make the picture more "dramatic". No different than using black and white photograph vs color.

Courtney Vance and Sarah Paulson are really killing their roles.

Edited February 17, 2016 by FuriousStyles

[VanillaBeanne]

Can you really say motherfucker on cable? Wow.

I like Cuba and thought he is very good, but when Johnny hugged "OJ", Cuba looked so small.

Really like this show and everybody's performances.

Edited February 17, 2016 by VanillaBeanne

[ketose]

FX: We can use the F-word.

 

Who's playing Dershowitz?

[Constantinople]

Remember when Barbara Walters interviewed the entire jury after the verdict?  Remember when they said, to a person, that despite the LAPD's history of racism and some questionable actions during the investigation, they planned to find OJ guilty due to the overwhelming evidence?  But that they changed their minds after hearing that Robert Kardashian once took his kids to lunch because that gave them an entirely new insight into the case?

 

Am I the only one who remembers that?

Edited February 17, 2016 by Constantinople

[Primetimer]

The third episode introduces more of the players and many of the issues in The People v. OJ Simpson -- awkwardly.

Read the story

[wanderingstar]

"You think Alan is the most famous lawyer in the country?"

 

God bless Nathan Lane and his line delivery.

 

I don't mind the inclusion of the Kardashian kids. The OJ case arguably marked the cultural shift toward reality TV, so I can't think of a better place to nod to the subsequent emergence of the Kardashian fame machine.

 

Can anyone confirm that those were, in fact, the real 911 tapes? They sounded a LOT like them

I obviously have no way of confirming, but it sure sounded like the real tapes. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[Mya Stone]

FX: We can use the F-word.

 

Who's playing Dershowitz?

Evan Handler, aka Harry (Charlottes second husband in Sex and the City).

[nutella fitzgerald]

I guess it would be too much for the Children of the Corn to be upset that Uncle Juice was on trial for Aunt Nicole's murder.

I don't know if Robert ever gave them such sage advice in real life, but it obviously fell on deaf ears.

Richard Kordovian was a real fount of wisdom, didn't you know?

I'm feeling the Kardashian kameos! I was a child during the trials, and it's interesting seeing characters (kharacters?) whose heads everything's going over as it did mine.

[ketose]

When Cuba was with Johnnie saying, "I didn't do it, I swear I didn't do it" - he chose to look down with every declaration. That's a really interesting acting choice (to show deception).

Also holy shit the F-bomb.

Reading the book I'm reading I can see where some things were fictionalized but...it's still great TV.

Welcome to playing another Jewish lawyer, Evan. Nice to see you.

Also Nathan Lane is SURPRISNGLY good in this. In that he's not really overplaying Bailey.

Can anyone confirm that those were, in fact, the real 911 tapes? They sounded a LOT like them - but I have the volume down as my four year old is asleep on my couch while I watched it.

I'm going to say they weren't the tapes. The phrasing seemed a little off to me.

[Umbelina]

I finished the dog show first, but I actually really love this dinner scene with Robert and his kids, because those kids are a perfect example of being in the middle on this.  If anyone was, it was them.  Most of the rest of us had a "side" pretty quickly on, once the evidence started coming out.  Kardashian saying "your mom shouldn't be talking to you about this" or whatever it was, and the oldest kid's logical response, "why not?  He's my Godfather.  Kids are asking me about it all the time."

This scene worked for me on every level, much more than the others have.

 

I remember listening to commentary on another show on this network.  I think they can have ONE "fuck" or derivative per episode.  Ha.

[Mya Stone]

I'm going to say they weren't the tapes. The phrasing seemed a little off to me.

I know Nicole swore a lot more in them. I just don't know if they altered the real ones...from what I could hear it didn't sound like Cuba-OJ.

[FuriousStyles]

The tapes sounded real to me. I've heard them before, but my jaw still dropped as I heard them again tonight. I couldnt imagine hearing that 9/11 tape on the news or the radio while everything was still going on.

Edited February 17, 2016 by FuriousStyles

[elzin]

I already didn't hate Scheck and now he's being played by Rob Morrow? Woo hoo!

I remember that issue of Time. I agree with what the character of Cochrane said (no idea if true to life) that it was insensitive. I didn't get wound up about it at the time and not much now. But I do see it's problematic.

[CeeBeeGee]

Welcome to playing another Jewish lawyer, Evan. Nice to see you.

 

Hey, he's got some range--in Too Big to Fail he played a Jewish banker ;)

 

LOVED the scene between Robert and Kris. The voice of righteous fury, cutting through all the "Uncle Juice" garbage. Perhaps that was the beginning of Roberts doubts about OJ (as though the reams of physical evidence and the 9-1-1 tapes wasn't enough. God, I hate the OJ asslickers).

[Bronzedog]

On The View, Cuba Gooding, Jr. Said he was elated when he heard OJ was acquitted. He didn't care whether he was guilty or not. He said the first time he cared was when he did the scene for the movie when he was standing over the casket.

I think that's how his defense attorneys probably felt. But, I guess that's the way they have to feel. They know their client is guilty and work to get them off anyway. It's their chosen profession. Johnnie Cochran had to have known OJ was guilty.

[helenamonster]

Interesting how OJ was kind of relegated to the background this episode as the circus was pitched around him. I think it worked.

 

Surprisingly, the Kardashian spawn didn't bother me as much this episode because the scene felt like it had more of a purpose and tied into the episode's overall theme. But yeah, the clunky irony was not lost on me; if Robert ever gave that speech to his kids it was immediately forgotten.

 

Robert himself isn't innocent in all this. Schwimmer is playing him as how many people here have described the real Kardashian: a desperate hanger-on to OJ's celebrity. Sheesh, between him and Kris no wonder the kids ended up how they are. That one line he had, something about "the Juice will still be the Juice" told me all I needed to know about him. That and caring more about how his kids view their "pretend" uncle (this show is making me side with Kris Jenner and for that I resent it) than he does about the glaring evidence that points to said uncle very likely murdering two innocent people. I get him now. Schwimmer is doing a great job with it.

 

I'm not familiar with Courtney B. Vance outside of this show but I'm enjoying him immensely and the show's take on Cochran. Despite his pre-OJ career, it's hard to believe that his motives in defending him were altruistic. When the case still looked like a loser, he wanted no part of it. He only wanted to represent OJ if he thought he could win. Darden seems to be kind of a foil for Cochran; on the one hand he's a black man who understands why other black people are holding onto OJ's innocence, but he's more interested in convicting someone that he's pretty sure committed murder than making a statement about racism. I'm interested to see that dynamic play out over the rest of the series.

 

I know I shouldn't, but Paulson is really making me feel for Clark. Shit was just falling down all around her before she had a chance to make any headway. Oh well, she'll fuck up on her own eventually.

 

Yeah, you can say "fuck" and other variations on basic cable. They did on Mad Men a few times. Also, with cable, it's not about adhering to FCC regulations, it's more about pleasing advertisers.

 

Re: Sarah's review, it was actually Time that published the darkened mugshot cover; Newsweek kept the original.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Holy Motherfucking F-bombs, Batman!!!!!

 

Vincent!!!!!!!

 

And that totally was the real 911 tape. I can say that because I just watched back to back the OJ Secret Tapes.  And that was NOT Cuba in the background, but the real OJ. Just like from the front, that was the real Larry King.

 

I have always loved Nathan Lane and he has gotten Bailey down to a T as well.

 

This show better fucking show the doped up, pretending to be depressed OJ with his first "Not Guilty" plea, before the second one, where he does his "Absolutely Positively NOT GUILTY" or I will be seriously pissed.

Edited February 17, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[Constantinople]

From the recap

 

On the other hand, the darkening of Simpson's mug shot on the cover of Newsweek is dealt with so glancingly that I thought I missed something. Jeffrey Toobin's The Run Of His Life is acidic in remarking that, instead of dealing with the issues the treatment of the photo raised in terms of privilege and ethics in journalism, Newsweek apologized for offending anyone and waited for the circus to go to a different town.

 

It was Time, not Newsweek.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh, and I totally remember when the Time magazine with OJ's face/mugshot came out. There was a LOT of talk that it was racist to make him look darker/more "Black."

 

And another nitpick, but this time I know I'm right: Scheck. He did NOT have BLACK HAIR. His hair was a light brown. I remember from the snippet from this trial and him playing himself on either Law & Order or some crime procedural.

 

ETA: This should be in the case discussion, but since it's part of tonight's episode, I will say, when I watched the Secret Tapes documentary, Schiller said, how one time, when he went and spoke to OJ, he came out and said that OJ scared him (Cochran) and that OJ did kill those people. So, maybe in the beginning he didn't know, or want to know, but by the time the trial was over, he, too, thought OJ was guilty.

 

Now, before I go Googling, can someone please tell me that Toobin is not that turd I see on Fox "News."

Edited February 17, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[bmoore4026]

They said motherfucker on this show!  Holy shit!

 

And I'm pretty sure the actresses playing little Kim and Khloe are in their 20s.  Very short 20-somethings.

[LonelyTown]

Hmmm, is that Pat McKenna Casey Anthony's current housemate?

Pretty sure! The very one. Loves his scumbags

[laffytaffy997]

This is probably a dumb question, but why was Marcia upset about the 911 tapes being released to the media? Doesn't that help their case?

[helenamonster]

Yeah, I was gonna ask if the 911 call was the real one. I started to suspect it was and it gave me the heebie jeebies.

 

Also, was Kato really that recognizable already at that point in the case? OJ hadn't even been arraigned yet. If it's true, that's one of the most telling signs to me so far how insane the coverage on this thing was.

This is probably a dumb question, but why was Marcia upset about the 911 tapes being released to the media? Doesn't that help their case?

 

I think it's because then their strategy is revealed (history of domestic violence, which didn't work anyway). Also, in general she seemed like she wanted to keep things from leaking as much as possible. The lack of control over her evidence and witnesses would have understandably shaken her.

[ketose]

And another nitpick, but this time I know I'm right: Schenk. He did NOT have BLACK HAIR. His hair was a light brown. I remember from the snippet from this trial and him playing himself on either Law & Order or some crime procedural.

For some reason, I always think of Sheck as looking like Saul Goodman.

[FuriousStyles]

I think something like the 9/11 tape would have been really dramatic for the jury to hear in the courtroom.

With the tape being released to the public, it kind of lessens the impact because some, most, or all of the jurors would have already heard it and had weeks to kind of "get over it" for lack of better phrasing.

And just on general principle, you NEVER want your evidence out for public consumption before you have a chance to present it in the courtroom.

[lyric]

Just my opinion, but the 911 calls sound like a very well done reenactment of the real tapes - I agree with someone upthread - the cadence is wrong, and Nicole's voice is just a little off to me.  

 

I think another reason the early release was problematic is because hearing them over and over and over months before the trial and they tend to lose their impact - the potential jurors may become more desensitized by trial time.  

 

Heh, or what FuriousStyles said...

Edited February 17, 2016 by lyric

[VanillaBeanne]

I didn't think the 9-11 tapes were the real ones because, Nicole had a really husky, almost masculine voice. It made the tapes even scarier to me, since she kind of sounded like a strong person who was absolutely terrified.

Actors playing Darden and Clark have good chemistry, but I'm not interested in seeing their affair play out. Disappointed that they had one during the trial - that had to be a real distraction.

Also, liked the scene with Shapiro and Bailey in front of a fire, mocking Dershowitz. Reminded me of statler and Waldorf.

[punkypower]

OMG, you owe me a new computer for that last one, VanillaBeanne!! Bwah!!

Holy crepe, I COMPLETELY forgot that Darden and Clark had an affair!! Also never knew they darkened the magazine cover!

I really thought it was the actual Nicole call, but could definitely be wrong. Since IMDB credits "Nicole" in the episode, they could definitely have used an actress.

I had to rewind the end 3 times because I was in awe that they dropped the F-bomb. I've seen Dylan McDermott cry after masturbating on AHS: MH, but the F-bomb just shocked me....I'm punky,and I'm almost six years old... :Þ

I feel so badly for CBJ and all the flack he's getting for his height. You can really tell he's giving everything he has into the role. Hell, everyone is. Some just happen to be doppelgangers for their characters.

This show, you guys!

edited bc of that damned damned [/b] function!!

Edited February 17, 2016 by punkypower

[GHScorpiosRule]

We're already three episodes in, and I'm wondering if Cuba's voice has already "broken" because he sounded more hoarse and raspy.

[BW Manilowe]

Interesting how OJ was kind of relegated to the background this episode as the circus was pitched around him. I think it worked.

Surprisingly, the Kardashian spawn didn't bother me as much this episode because the scene felt like it had more of a purpose and tied into the episode's overall theme. But yeah, the clunky irony was not lost on me; if Robert ever gave that speech to his kids it was immediately forgotten.

Robert himself isn't innocent in all this. Schwimmer is playing him as how many people here have described the real Kardashian: a desperate hanger-on to OJ's celebrity. Sheesh, between him and Kris no wonder the kids ended up how they are. That one line he had, something about "the Juice will still be the Juice" told me all I needed to know about him. That and caring more about how his kids view their "pretend" uncle (this show is making me side with Kris Jenner and for that I resent it) than he does about the glaring evidence that points to said uncle very likely murdering two innocent people. I get him now. Schwimmer is doing a great job with it.

I'm not familiar with Courtney B. Vance outside of this show but I'm enjoying him immensely and the show's take on Cochran. Despite his pre-OJ career, it's hard to believe that his motives in defending him were altruistic. When the case still looked like a loser, he wanted no part of it. He only wanted to represent OJ if he thought he could win. Darden seems to be kind of a foil for Cochran; on the one hand he's a black man who understands why other black people are holding onto OJ's innocence, but he's more interested in convicting someone that he's pretty sure committed murder than making a statement about racism. I'm interested to see that dynamic play out over the rest of the series.

I know I shouldn't, but Paulson is really making me feel for Clark. Shit was just falling down all around her before she had a chance to make any headway. Oh well, she'll fuck up on her own eventually.

Yeah, you can say "fuck" and other variations on basic cable. They did on Mad Men a few times. Also, with cable, it's not about adhering to FCC regulations, it's more about pleasing advertisers.

Re: Sarah's review, it was actually Time that published the darkened mugshot cover; Newsweek kept the original.

Responding to the bolded. Courtney B. Vance is a veteran actor in TV, films, & the theatre. He played the DA in Law & Order: Criminal Intent for 5 seasons. He's also a Tony Award Winner. He's married to Oscar nominated (as Tina Turner in What's Love Got to Do with It?) actress & director Angela Bassett; they have 10 year-old boy/girl twins. Here's a link to his Wikipedia page.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtney_B._Vance

Edited February 17, 2016 by BW Manilowe

[SpringTulips]

Cuba has that whiny quality down...Otherwise I think Malcolm Jamal Warner (who plays AC) would have been a better OJ.

Edited February 17, 2016 by SpringTulips

[BW Manilowe]

Oh, and I totally remember when the Time magazine with OJ's face/mugshot came out. There was a LOT of talk that it was racist to make him look darker/more "Black."

And another nitpick, but this time I know I'm right: Schenk. He did NOT have BLACK HAIR. His hair was a light brown. I remember from the snippet from this trial and him playing himself on either Law & Order or some crime procedural.

ETA: This should be in the case discussion, but since it's part of tonight's episode, I will say, when I watched the Secret Tapes documentary, Schiller said, how one time, when he went and spoke to OJ, he came out and said that OJ scared him (Cochran) and that OJ did kill those people. So, maybe in the beginning he didn't know, or want to know, but by the time the trial was over, he, too, thought OJ was guilty.

Now, before I go Googling, can someone please tell me that Toobin is not that turd I see on Fox "News."

Unless he's changed networks, the last I knew Jeffrey Toobin was the Legal Analyst for CNN, not Faux (Fox) News--I'm pretty sure including during/going as far back as the OJ trial.

[ketose]

Dershowitz is the Fox News guy.

[DivaLasVegas82]

"Motherfucker." Omg I can't believe that got past the censors! But I agree with the sentiment, Marcia.

I wonder if Cochran, towards the end of his life, ever realized he got a guilty man free. I wonder if he even cared.

 

It's not a defense attorney's job to care or determine their client's guilt. Their only job is to provide them with the best defense possible. In Johnnie's case, he provided OJ with the best defense OJ's money could pay for.

Cuba has that whiny quality down...Otherwise I think Malcolm Jamal Warner would have been a better OJ.

 

ANYBODY would have been a better OJ than Cuba, at this point IMO. I know OJ is suppose to be distraught because he's reputation and freedom are at stake, but Cuba is playing him so pitiful and in a way that is not compelling.

[helenamonster]

I loved how they showed a quick clip of the real Vincent Bugliosi when Shapiro was flipping channels. I didn't realize he was already being brought on as an analyst/expert, but it makes sense given his near-perfect record as a prosecutor, specifically a Los Angeles prosecutor. It was a nice, non-clunky bit of foreshadowing, seeing as how he'd eventually let loose on the whole thing in a book a few years later.

[DivaLasVegas82]

I didn't think the 9-11 tapes were the real ones because, Nicole had a really husky, almost masculine voice. It made the tapes even scarier to me, since she kind of sounded like a strong person who was absolutely terrified.

Actors playing Darden and Clark have good chemistry, but I'm not interested in seeing their affair play out. Disappointed that they had one during the trial - that had to be a real distraction.

Also, liked the scene with Shapiro and Bailey in front of a fire, mocking Dershowitz. Reminded me of statler and Waldorf.

 

Was it ever confirmed that Darden and Clark had an affair? I thought that was just tabloid fodder.

[lovinbob]

I am frustrated by this show. It's just not shedding any new light on anything for me. And so far, the prosecutors are coming across like these noble white knights who are getting felled by circumstances, and I really don't think that's accurate. I guess I shouldn't have started reading Bugliosi's book -- he tears them apart mercilessly. 

 

I think Schwimmer's doing a decent job, but his use of "Juice" as a name is tough to hear. It's really hard to imagine a Kardashian being religious and virtuous. Very weird. I guess the one thing that I appreciate and is new to me is that Kardashian was such a no-name. It's painful, yet somewhat entertaining, to see him as such a fish out of water with the high-powered lawyers.

 

One thing I'm confused by -- I thought Shapiro was against use of race in the case and that in the end, he criticized Cochran for it. Yet here he is seen introducing it. I'll be interested to see how that unfolds. 

[Umbelina]

Was it ever confirmed that Darden and Clark had an affair? I thought that was just tabloid fodder.

I read both of their books, and neither said they did.  Marcia said something like they became closer than lovers (which work people can sometimes do.)  Someone may have something more current or recent (as far as reveals) on that though.

I am frustrated by this show. It's just not shedding any new light on anything for me. And so far, the prosecutors are coming across like these noble white knights who are getting felled by circumstances, and I really don't think that's accurate. I guess I shouldn't have started reading Bugliosi's book -- he tears them apart mercilessly. 

 

I think Schwimmer's doing a decent job, but his use of "Juice" as a name is tough to hear. It's really hard to imagine a Kardashian being religious and virtuous. Very weird. I guess the one thing that I appreciate and is new to me is that Kardashian was such a no-name. It's painful, yet somewhat entertaining, to see him as such a fish out of water with the high-powered lawyers.

 

One thing I'm confused by -- I thought Shapiro was against use of race in the case and that in the end, he criticized Cochran for it. Yet here he is seen introducing it. I'll be interested to see how that unfolds. 

I think a show about nothing but the trial would be boring, been there, done that.  This is about ALL of it, including the exploding circus it became, the racial tension and divides it exposed, and some peeks at some of the key players, then, and even now.

[CeeBeeGee]

It's not a defense attorney's job to care or determine their client's guilt. Their only job is to provide them with the best defense possible. In Johnnie's case, he provided OJ with the best defense OJ's money could pay for.

 

OP wasn't talking about his job, but whether or not he believed OJ, or cared that he'd gotten someone off who slaughtered two people. And I'm pretty sure he didn't care--remember, this is the guy who smirked at Kim Goldman and mouthed "gotcha" after the verdict. That is not a man who cares if his client is innocent or guilty. 

[VCRTracking]

The opening scene made me laugh. "Fame is fleeting."

 

I love the assembling of the "Dream Team" and the Sarah Paulson as Clark's confidence in having a winner being slowly eroded by both the celebrity and the racial aspects.

[Tunia]

It's really nitpicky, but it's annoying to hear Marcia refer to "A. C. Cowlings".  It's either "A. C." or "Al Cowlings", not a combo of the two.  His middle name is Greg.