S02.E13: Welcome To Earth-2

[venusnv80]

They said that Diana, Bruce and Hal were just Easter Eggs nothing more.

[Xenith22]

I know Cop Iris was suspicious, but I kinda figure that as a cop, and his wife, she should have been more suspicious, especially after Killer Frost and Deathstorm announced that they were looking for someone who had crossed over.

Especially since her meta detector device went off...which speaking of that.  Why did everyone elses metahuman detector go off when KF and DS entered the bar but not when Barry entered?  Also why did Cisco not set off Iris's detector?  The writers really should not have brought those devices back-up in this episode if they could not be consistent with them.

 

Please tell me that Cisco was smart enough to take his doppelganger's glasses which would be properly tuned to Earth-2's frequency.  That's how he is going to find Barry right?   Because I'm going to be very sad if he did not.

 

Also, Deadshot! I guess their one rare cameo that they can make, seeing as Lawton was one of my favourites on Arrow and was pissed they killed him off for the Suicide Squad movie.

I really hope there are more Earth-2 doppelgangers that crossed over before the breaches were closed and just have not been seen yet.  Like maybe a Dark Archer Tommy Merlyn can show up on Arrow at some point?

 

They said that Diana, Bruce and Hal were just Easter Eggs nothing more.

I know the first two are off the table, but I refuse to let myself believe that there is no chance of Hal ever showing up as important of a character as he was to Barry and Oliver.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Xenith22

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

They said that Diana, Bruce and Hal were just Easter Eggs nothing more.

 

I'm all for "easter eggs", but why not use names that are not quite so well known if those characters won't ever be a part of the show, or if that universe's BA is not an actual speedster or superhero?  If he (or Iris) are just a frequent information source to them, fine, but explain that then.

 

Easter eggs only make sense if they have a sensible & believable tie to the story they're trying to tell (IMO).

Edited February 10, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Trini]

Good things:

...

7. They FINALLY FLIPPED THE HOSPITAL SET AROUND!  After three seasons of that same damn set (Arrow used a slightly different one in the first season) just seeing a hospital bed on the other side of the room was enough to bring me to tears.

 

...

 

Bad things:

...

Barry (sees Iris): Never mind the mission!

 

The many Earth-2 characters now dead because of this: THANKS BARRY. 

 

Heh. Sorry, but only flipping the One And Only Hospital Set wasn't enough for me. I was annoyed that even another universe uses the same hospital room.

 

I figured Barry would play along a little bit then get back to business, but NOPE. Sigh.

[quarks]

Heh. Sorry, but only flipping the One And Only Hospital Set wasn't enough for me. I was annoyed that even another universe uses the same hospital room.

 

 

Well, to further annoy you, I'm not actually sure that they did change the set - I think they just put a filter in the camera and then flipped the image.  Probably because Arrow used the set last week and I believe will be using it for tomorrow night's episode, so they didn't have time to flip the furniture around.  I sincerely hope that Legends of Tomorrow doesn't have a sudden need to go visit a character in a hospital.

 

On the other hand, for everyone who keeps complaining about inconsistencies on this show (me), we at least know that this remains constant throughout the universes!

[Jenesis]

Another little easter egg, E2 Barry's news interview was on channel '52'. I see you, show.

[Trini]

I mean at least change the window treatments, the color of the walls; something!

 

 

 

Easter eggs only make sense if they have a sensible & believable tie to the story they're trying to tell (IMO).

 

Pretty sure that's almost opposite the concept of an easter egg. It's just a background gag/reference that has nothing to do with the story.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I admit though, when it comes to alternate universes, Fringe will always have my heart.  Sniff.  I so miss that amazing show - not super humans just smart, clever characters and well told stories - oh, and Walter and his cow....

 

You're not the only one.  I miss Fringe too.  Much like Walter from Fringe, Cisco was packing Red Vines in his vest pocket for the trip to E2.

 

We had a totally forgettable villain in the Geomancer. And he spoke very Snart-esque.

 

Oh look Geomancer got away -- very slowly.  Why didn't Joe just reload and go after him ? Or shoot him in the head ?

 

Overall a good episode, but Barry was terrible, like just really bad at blending in as his doppelganger.  He just seemed to assume that everybody would be EXACTLY the same as in E1, despite Cisco's warnings that things here are all kinds of trippy.

 

Looking closer at those images during the transition between Earths:

• Arrow seems to be wearing armor on his left arm, his bow is more of a traditional bow instead of a compound bow, and the hood is a lot greener and really different.
• The John Wesley Shipp Flash picture was a reversed image, because the lightning bolt on his chest was going from right to left (instead of the traditional left to right)
• That looked kind of like Grodd, but it could also have been another gorilla (from Gorilla City where Grodd was deposited through the breach)
• Where the heck does Jonah Hex fit into all of this 
• What was that last image during the transition on the right -- it was mostly white, and appeared to have a bright logo of some sort,  Not sure what it was.

 

Who was Henry the Lab Assistant at Star Labs that Cisco and Barry were afraid of ?  I don't remember him at all from Earth 1.

 

Funky things noticed on Earth 2:

• Jet engines apparently don't exist because that airliner had 4 propeller driven engines
• The monorail (then again Central City could be Springfield in Earth 2 -- Monorail !! Monorail !!)
• Old-time car designs -- but the police car was a really modern design, so I guess it could just be part of some retro fad that seems to have heavy influences in Earth 2
• Money bills are square on Earth 2
• There is so much parking outside of Star Labs you would think that it's a sports stadium.  And if it is a normal workday, why was the StarLabs parking lot so empty ?
• Women were wearing a LOT of hats in the background scenes of Earth 2
• Apparently smartphones are a real thing in Earth 2 since there was that screen in the Star Labs lobby for the Next Gen Phone (and it looked a lot like a Samsung Galaxy Note or S4).  And while they have modern cell phones, the household wired phone was just bizarre -- 6 pre-programmed buttons, yet the handset was wireless.  How would you dial anyone else other than the pre-programmed buttons ?
• Mom, Mom and Dad, Eddie, Bruce, Diana, Hal were the pre-programmed phone buttons -- so is that Eddie Thawne ? And is Eddie a cop ?
• News Channel 52 -- Like New 52.  Ha !  

  Note: @Jenesis beat me to it.

• I liked Harry's Kinect like control over the TV and the room lights.
• The CCPD lobby wall was titled 'A Free and Just Society'
• Notice that Killer Frost said that it was her favorite thing to do was to kill people from other Earths (plural). Does that mean there are more than 2 Earths in the Flash/Arrow/Supergirl-verse ?
• If Barry and Iris lived in the West residence, where is Joe living ?
• E2 Iris in a pink and black bra.  Grrrr.
• How did Barry know that pressing the 'Mom and Dad' button on that phone would call HIS mom and dad ?  As far as he knows, Iris' mom could still be alive in E2.
• They used that exact same monorail-centric transition shot three times -- one was in daytime and one at night -- but the cars in the parking lot were EXACTLY the same.  And then third time was a horizontally flipped version of the night shot.
• Jitterbugs was way too small and well-lit to be a lounge/nightclub.
• That was a statue of 'Hero of Central City Jay Gerrick -- The Flash' that Barry stole that helmet off of, but it didn't really look like Jay Garrick.

 

Did Cisco really rip on Elon Musk for having resting bitch face (RBF) ?

 

I hope Cisco thinks to steal Reverb's glasses so that he can do his Vibe thing in Earth 2.

Note: @Xenith22 beat me to it.

 

Hold on -- didn't Barry run numerous city blocks away with Deathstorm in hot pursuit only to stop and grab Jay's helmet -- and he was in the same plaza that Killer Frost had been standing in all along.  WTF ?

 

Did Cisco really quote James Taylor lyrics to Iris at CCPD ?

 

Doesn't Geomancer mean 'earth lover' ?  What a terrible metahuman nickname ?

Edited February 10, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[Trini]

Non-DC easter egg: Cisco had red vines -- the snack of choice of Walter Bishop on Fringe, who also crossed between universes.

 

ETA: Jinx, otto!

Edited February 10, 2016 by Trini

[Xenith22]

Did Barry meet Lawton in Earth-1, The Flash or Arrow? I can not recall that.

Actually neither.  The two characters actually only met in the Flash Season Zero digital comic series.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Xenith22

[NorthstarATL]

Barry bought his parent's a trip to Atlantis.

Earth 2 Atlantis did not have an Aquaman. It never sank.

[Lantern7]

Seriously, why are they making this iconic character SO LAME??

 

It can be so much worse. Two words: Laurel Lance. Jay will never be as lame as the Whack Canary.

 

And yeah, I thought of Fringe. I think the transition cues between worlds should have been adapted by the show.

[Maverick]

Mayor Snart was nice surprise. That would be interesting for Earth 1 Leonard to find out. 

 

 Could be Papa Snart.  Or even Lisa.

 

 So Harry knows Caitlin is a supervillian on the other side and doesn't bother to give Barry a heads up?  I get not mentioning Ronnie since he never met him, but he's be working with not!Killer Frost for months.  

 

 I think the names on the phone were a 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

[Chicago Redshirt]

Who was Henry the Lab Assistant at Star Labs that Cisco and Barry were afraid of ?  I don't remember him at all from Earth 1.

...

Doesn't Geomancer mean 'earth lover' ?  What a terrible metahuman nickname ?

 

Henry was a nuclear powered villain Tomalak (sp?). You may remember earlier this season when Stein was dying because he needed another partner to replace Ronnie. Team Flash identified two potential candidates: Jax Jefferson and Henry Hewitt. Henry was a nice seeming scientist who Caitlin liked. But it turned out that he had an anger management problem and he wasn't compatible enough with Stein for them to merge. But he was just compatible enough to become a supervillain. Meanwhile, Jax was an auto mechanic who Caitlin was kinda-racist/classist toward, but turned out to be fully compatible with. 

 

A "mancer" is a suffix for someone who can manipulate something. So a necromancer is someone who can manipulate death, a pyromancer is someone who can manipulate fire. Geomancer as someone who can manipulate earth makes sense.

[Artsda]

I loved this episode! So great seeing the doppelgangers and everyone being someone else. Iris, Frost, Deathstorm, Cisco. They were all great.  Joe hating Barry, Iris and Barry married. The differences were great.

 

Mayor Snart! Ha, loved that. 

 

Clips of Supergirl/Arrow, all the eggs were great too.

[VCRTracking]

Holy shit "Reverb" aka evil Earth 2 Cisco was awesome! Too bad he got killed off so quickly. "Are you 'Cloud City Vadering' me?" LOL!

 

Loved Earth 2 Iris being a cop.

 

Also great seeing that image of Supergirl in the portal. So she and her world are definitely in a separate Earth.

[Ruby25]

Loved it!!! Such a terrific, entertaining episode!

 

But did it bother anyone else that Barry didn't even think to send E2 Barry to the hospital to be with his family and not be all "they need ME!" Um, no they probably need the person who to them is the REAL Barry, don't you think? I mean, he seriously sat there for hours and didn't let the other Barry be with his wife in her father's last moments. That's kinda fucked up.

 

I hope E2 Barry/Iris are pissed at him for that next week.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Loved that Cisco packed his vest pockets with all kinds of important stuff and red licorice (until the show tells me otherwise, I am going to believe that they are Twizzlers, which are far superior to Red Vines).

 

Barry and Cisco's initial reactions to E2 were hilarious. I was cracking up at them stopping to take selfies while Harrison rolled his eyes and huffed at them like an annoyed dad. I mean, I totally get his sense of urgency but maybe give them a few minutes to gawk at a new world?

 

I enjoyed seeing the E2 versions of characters we already know. Barry and Cisco cringing at the first guy Wells saw was hilarious, as was Deadshot as a terrible shot who had to remind them that his shooting score went up two whole points.

 

Once again, E1 Barry proves that he is the worst actor. I was surprised that Iris didn't figure out that he wasn't E2 Barry on her own because he was being so twitchy and weird. She looked gorgeous in all those future/retro outfits. I'm not sure how practical it is for a police detective to run around in wide legged pants, but I'm okay with it because she looked awesome in those pants.

 

Jo-seph can STFU. So what if his daughter became a detective? She could have gone back to writing once Bartholomew was done with his forensics degree (or, hell, she could have chosen several other careers besides the police force while Bartholomew was in school). Iris and Bartholomew probably have no mortgage since they're living in the West house and no kids, so there is no reason she couldn't go back to writing if she wanted to but she seemed to enjoy being a detective. Boo hoo that she risks her life "every day" working for the police (I'm not trying to downplay how dangerous it is to be a police officer but I also find it a bit much when tv shows act like most police are being shot at every time they leave the station). She CHOSE that job and she CHOSE to keep it, so quit pouting and quit blaming Bartholomew for your daughter's choices.

[Ruby25]

I think we're gonna need some backstory as to how E2 Barry landed E2 Iris, because as fun as it is that they're together (and I can't wait to see the E2 WestAllens next week, because the promo looks hilarious), she seems WAY out of his league, lol.

[rogueprinzess]

Many of my thoughts have already been said here. This was my favourite episode of this season, period. I too felt that we could have nixed the E1 scenes completely as E2 was where all the cool stuff and great acting was. I could tell that the actors were having a ball with changing up their characters' MO and body language. Both Candice and Carlos were FANTASTIC with how much they changed themselves; Candice used a much more aggressive/assertive way of walking, gesturing and speaking as Detective West. And Carlos changed his speaking cadence, body language and even his tone to play Reverb. So much fun to watch. I'm honestly sad that we may never see these versions again.

 

Caitlin lost Ronnie yet again. Homegirl should really look into getting cats.

 

I'm not sure though why Zoom grabbed Barry now. We've already seen that he could have taken Barry before (especially when Barry had a broken back) and he told Wells that he wants Barry "fattened up" on the speed force before he drains him...and Barry's not even at his fastest right now. So....why kidnap him? My only other guess is that he hopes to get Wells too and use him to drain Barry right there on E2. Also, Zoom killing Reverb wasn't very smart as he was probably the only thing allowing Zoom to see what was happening on E1 without coming through the breach. 

 

Westallen was great to see, even if it wasn't completely on the level. While I enjoyed seeing the romantic scenes with my bubbies, I kinda wish Iris had figured out that it wasn't her Barry after she kissed him. Just to show how much of an awesome detective she is.

Edited February 10, 2016 by rogueprinzess

[VCRTracking]

I like that after Barry knocked over Reverb he asked Cisco "That didn't hurt you, did it?" and Cisco's like "No. Why would it?"

Edited February 10, 2016 by VCRTracking

[steelyis]

Maybe I need to rewatch the episode. Everyone seems to have thought it was an amazing episode, whereas it came off as disjointed and strange to me. Like it had good ideas and some fun moments, but wasn't sure it flowed that well.

 

I completely agree the episode was choppy going from scene to scene--like they were excited to put a bunch of cool ideas into the episode but didn't know how to meld them together properly. The lack of flow in direction and editing was so distracting it took away from what could have been a classic episode. But I still enjoyed it for the most part.

 

From Barry and Cisco arriving on Earth-2 and gawking like tourists, to them gasping and staring in shock at sane Earth-2 Henry Hewitt, it was hilarious and adorkable. Candice Patton killed it as Detective West-Allen and Grant Gustin had me in tears when Barry was talking to his mother on the phone. There was a lot of clever, moving, and funny moments in this episode that I think it was enough to overcome the disjointed way it was put together.

[zannej]

My stream of consciousness review/thoughts:

I enjoyed this episode, although I agree that the Earth1 scenes (while they were visiting Earth2) were a bit of a waste.

 

To those who didn't read previous comments and asked about the logo thing, it was the Legion of SuperHeroes Flight ring.

 

There appears to be similar to it in someone's personal ring collection posted on this website: http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=81308

 

I geeked out when I saw the ring because I used to read the LoSH and Legionnaires comic books.

 

Back to the episode, I thought it was cute how Barry and Cisco were totally geeking out and how they were clinging to each other when they saw Hewit. Loved how annoyed Harry got when he saw them stopping for a selfie. I know that feeling well. It's like when I take a family member or my friend's dumb girlfriend to the store and they take for frickin' ever and/or stop to chat or look at something they already looked at.

 

So, let me get this straight: Jay had superspeed but somehow he used the Velocity 6 (developed/provided by Wells?) to try to get faster but it made his nuts shrink-- err, I mean, it made him sick and actually caused him to lose his speed? Wait... Didn't Harry just develop V6 while on Earth1? Wouldn't Jay have used an earlier version? So, he stopped taking it and lost his speed completely but lied and said Zoom stole his speed? WTF? So, Zoom couldn't just outright steal his speed. That just doesn't even make sense. Especially since he kept saying he needed to get his speed "back" from Zoom. Is he lying again? Someone get the script coordinator on the line because that is a continuity fail.

 

I admit that I couldn't bring myself to be too interested in Killer Frost and Deathstorm, but the acting wasn't as bad as I was expecting.

 

I thought Carlos did a fantastic job as Reverb. Others have pointed out that he just moved and sounded different. Although it looks like he didn't remember to stay hydrated with those dark under-eye circles and dry lips. I guess spying for Zoom wasn't the best thing for his health. I liked that he didn't want to kill his doppelganger and actually wanted to team up with him.

 

Barry kidnapping his alternate self and then knocking him out without trying to get info about things first was stupid. I kept wishing that Barry would pull Iris aside and tell her the truth. You'd think if he explained that he was from a breach and Zoom had come through to his world and started killing people and he needed help, she might have been able to assist him.

 

WTF moment #2. Barry knows time is of the essence yet he disappears for hours to hang out with Iris. Oh, and Iris noticed he wasn't wearing his wedding ring and just shrugged it off. Combined with him acting crazy and her metahuman sensor going off, you'd think she would have realized something was seriously wrong.

 

I think someone else pointed out how inconsistent the metahuman detector app is. I can only assume that the alert/beep it makes is when metahumans are actively using their powers- which it seems to detect from greater distance (so it doesn't beep if a meta casually walks into a room) but it's secondary function is to glow red when near someone who is not using their powers.

 

If I had been Harry and Barry had disappeared for so long when there was a time crunch, I think I'd be livid. I wanted Harry to grab him by the shoulders, shake him, and say "If we don't stop Zoom then it won't matter what happens with these people because they will probably all die!" Barry was being so selfish and reckless.

 

Um, why couldn't they just try to re-tune Cisco's glasses to work on Earth2? I really hope Cisco had the presence of mind to snag Reverb's glasses (even if it might feel creepy to him to snag them off his doppelganger's corpse).

 

Why did Zoom leave Iris and Cisco alive? Did he not see them? Did he just not care? Is it part of some plan?

 

I wonder which Snart is the mayor.

 

I was sad to see that Joseph hated Bartholomew. I wish Earth1 Joe was that dedicated to Iris. So sad that he died.

 

Dude with the mask reminded me of Ferro from the LoSH comic books. At first I thought it was Henry Allen, but (after others mentioned it) I looked and maybe it is Wally West. It was too dark to tell skintone, but the hands looked young-ish.

 

I loved how Harry was walking around Star Labs with a BFG (big fucking gun) and nobody even blinked. Also, how long has he been gone from Earth2? You'd think if he'd been gone for too long, more people would have stopped to say something to him-- unless most people are afraid to speak to him. If it took a speedster (even with the speed canon) to run through, how did he get through to Earth1 in the first place?

 

How did they know that E2 Barry was a CSI? I think I missed something.

 

Loved how Harry was able to wave his hand to turn on the TV. Also found the clutter in his office interesting.

 

So, Barry completely ignores the advice of pretty much everyone, gets people killed, and then gets captured. Then he tells Jesse that he's there with her dad to rescue her. Way to go giving away that info to Zoom. What a fuckwit!

 

I wonder why Jesse isn't in a glass cell-- and I wonder when the glass cells got put there because it didn't look like the same location where Zoom was keeping her earlier. Also noticed her hands were no longer tied above her head and she had a chain on her wrist.

 

The bit with Barry talking to his Mom on the phone was touching. The fact that both parents were going on the trip made me wonder if maybe Zoom is not Henry, but I can't help but think that he is.

 

I agree with others that it would be awesome to have more Earth2 stuff popping up. So sad that they killed some of the cool characters though. I still think it's a fascinating world to explore. Maybe we can revisit it later on. They could potentially keep just the one portal open if they stop Zoom.

 

Harry mentioned that Zoom didn't want other speedsters in all of the multiverse and Killer Frost said something about loving to kill people from other worlds. I wonder if that means there were breachers before that came to fight Zoom. Could the masked person in the other cage be an Earth3 Wally West with speed powers?

 

I'm really looking forward to the next episode.

Edited February 11, 2016 by zannej

[cambridgeguy]

I get why Cisco had to go to Earth 2 but that leaves the Earth 1 team without its tech guy.  Caitlin's not an engineer and Jay's not at the same level.  Maybe they should call in Tina McGee for a consult.

 

It was incredibly convenient that Joe was the ONLY cop to see Jay fall on his ass. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

So, let me get this straight: Jay had superspeed but somehow he used the Velocity 6 (developed/provided by Wells?) to try to get faster but it made his nuts shrink-- err, I mean, it made him sick and actually caused him to lose his speed? Wait... Didn't Harry just develop V6 while on Earth1? Wouldn't Jay have used an earlier version? So, he stopped taking it and lost his speed completely but lied and said Zoom stole his speed? WTF? So, Zoom couldn't just outright steal his speed. That just doesn't even make sense. Especially since he kept saying he needed to get his speed "back" from Zoom. Is he lying again? Someone get the script coordinator on the line because that is a continuity fail.

 

...

 

Um, why couldn't they just try to re-tune Cisco's glasses to work on Earth2? I really hope Cisco had the presence of mind to snag Reverb's glasses (even if it might feel creepy to him to snag them off his doppelganger's corpse).

 

Why did Zoom leave Iris and Cisco alive? Did he not see them? Did he just not care? Is it part of some plan?

 

...

 

If it took a speedster (even with the speed canon) to run through, how did he get through to Earth1 in the first place?

 

How did they know that E2 Barry was a CSI? I think I missed something.

I think we are supposed to take the revelation that Jay was doping as the truth. Either he developed V6 on his own on Earth 2 or with Wells. I suspect the latter, which helps explain Jay's bitterness towards Wells. Before he was kinda generically "You can't trust him" for no real given reason. If the reason was that Wells helped him develop a drug that ultimately weakened him, that would make sense.

 

I believe they were trying to figure out how to retune Cisco's glasses.

 

I assume Zoom left Iris and Cisco alive because either a) he doesn't GAF about them b) he expects Killer Frost to take care of him c) Capturing Flash and taking him to his lair was a priority for him or d) some combination of the foregoing.

 

The premise of it taking a speedster to go through a breach might be incorrect. But assuming for argument's sake it's not, Wells could have found a way to simulate speed. We know that V6 existed on E2.

 

E2 Barry appeared on a TV news story at the beginning talking about how CCPD will stop Zoom. E1 Barry jumped to the conclusion that meant that E2 Barry was a CSI. That seems to be a bad leap, since CSIs generally don't talk to the press. Since we didn't see E1 Barry do any actual work while he was "undercover," we don't know if his assumption is correct, or if E2 Barry is really something more like a police department spokesman or a detective in his own right. We do know from Joseph that Barry apparently went to get his PhD, so presumably he is a scientist of some sort.

[benteen]

After finally acting smart last week with Wells, Barry goes back to being an idiot and getting involved in his Earth-2 counterpart's life.  That got Singing Joe killed.

 

Forgot to mention that I did like the scene where Barry talked to his mom.  That got the apparently contractually obligated tears from Grant Gustin...

[kirinan]

Everyone has pretty much covered all the things I liked about this episode, but I do have to single out that scene where Barry talked to his mom on the phone. Grant Gustin just totally knocked it out of the park. He was SO good. As someone whose mom passed away 10 years ago, he channeled exactly what I imagine I'd feel if I could go to another timeline and talk to my mother again. I think I cried more than he did.

 

I cannot WAIT to see Zoom be unmasked. And for him to get his.

 

Oh, and I don't know if it was just my TV, but Killer Frost's lipstick came across as such a fluorescent green that when her face was onscreen, I couldn't pay attention to anything else. I wish they would have toned it down a bit. 

 

Can't wait for next week!

[moviechicka]

 

E2 Barry appeared on a TV news story at the beginning talking about how CCPD will stop Zoom. E1 Barry jumped to the conclusion that meant that E2 Barry was a CSI. That seems to be a bad leap, since CSIs generally don't talk to the press. Since we didn't see E1 Barry do any actual work while he was "undercover," we don't know if his assumption is correct, or if E2 Barry is really something more like a police department spokesman or a detective in his own right. We do know from Joseph that Barry apparently went to get his PhD, so presumably he is a scientist of some sort.

E2 Iris called Barry "CSI Allen" so Barry's assumption was correct.

[jmonique]

I adore Grant Gustin as Barry and E2!Barry. I love when he geeks out, when he's being a hero and when he's emotional.

 

However, getting all up in E2!Barry's universe to the point where he jeopardized the mission that they came to accomplish was a total dick move. You'd think after causing all that damage last season, and exposing his Earth to all of these breach-jumping weirdos that he'd learn how to focus and stop being so self-centered.

 

In other news, there are no words for how much I enjoyed Reverb. He was fantastic.

 

I also really like Harry -- I know some think he's too rude and gruff, but I think he's the only one on the show in two seasons who really acts like a rational grown-up. His daughter has been kidnapped and held hostage by Zoom for far too long, and Barry's off stealing time from his Earth 2 Doppleganger. Harry isn't here for Barry's tendency to take everything personally.

Edited February 10, 2016 by jmonique

[KirkB]

I totally understand Wells' frustration with Barry and Cisco at the beginning. Even if they really were just there for a visit, as tourists, they were acting like idiots. But in this case it's serious, the life of Wells' daughter is at stake.

 

It seems I missed a lot in the...what are we calling it? Time tunnel? Whatever. I noticed Supergirl. That really stuck out for me because I'm pretty sure I caught a couple of bars of her theme song too, And what looked like Grodd. I saw the Flash, although I didn't recognize it specifically as JWS's version. I even caught a glimpse of the Legion ring. I'm glad the rest of you were able to dissect it for me, I love stuff like that.

 

It seems I also missed the names on the phone too. I guess I should pay more attention.

 

Carlos certainly seemed to enjoy playing Reverb. I've noticed villains are often more fun for actors.

 

So if they closed 51 of the 52 breaches, I wonder how Barry is going to crossover to Supergirl? Unless it turns out she is on Earth 2 and they keep that one open for a while. Oh, and Supergirl and Superman both either unaware of or unconcerned about, Zoom lording it over Central City.

 

Why DIDN'T Jay go back? The whole reason he stayed in the first place was because he knows more about breaches and Zoom, and speedsters, and was supposedly going to mentor Barry in some capacity? But he didn't do much of that except for the lightning thing, and since Wells showed up they have been focused a lot more on him. So what is really keeping Jay here, a certain Snow fall not withstanding?

Edited February 10, 2016 by KirkB

[Chicago Redshirt]

So if they closed 51 of the 52 breaches, I wonder how Barry is going to crossover to Supergirl? Unless it turns out she is on Earth 2 and they keep that one open for a while. Oh, and Supergirl and Superman both either unaware of or unconcerned about, Zoom lording it over Central City.

 

Why DIDN'T Jay go back? The whole reason he stayed in the first place was because he knows more about breaches and Zoom, and speedsters, and was supposedly going to mentor Barry in some capacity? But he didn't do much of that except for the lightning thing, and since Wells showed up they have been focused a lot more on him. So what is really keeping Jay here, a certain Snow fall not withstanding?

 

Presumably, on the way back to Earth 1, something wonky happens and Barry (and probably Cisco) end up on Earth-SG. In addition to taking on whichever villains that week, Barry and Cisco will be trying to find a way home.

 

The show should have addressed why Jay didn't go back, but I'll fanwank that the team thought that they might need Jay's science knowledge available to keep the speed cannon functioning. Which it turns out that they did. Caitlin "What's a singularity?" Snow's expertise is in biochemistry, not theoretical physics or engineering. They could have had Cisco stay behind, but there was no way he wasn't going to go to another Earth if he could help it, plus the idea was that they needed his Vibing to try to figure out where Zoom was. 

[benteen]

I adore Grant Gustin as Barry and E2!Barry. I love when he geeks out, when he's being a hero and when he's emotional.

 

However, getting all up in E2!Barry's universe to the point where he jeopardized the mission that they came to accomplish was a total dick move. You'd think after causing all that damage last season, and exposing his Earth to all of these breach-jumping weirdos that he'd learn how to focus and stop being so self-centered.

 

In other news, there are no words for how much I enjoyed Reverb. He was fantastic.

 

I also really like Harry -- I know some think he's too rude and gruff, but I think he's the only one on the show in two seasons who really acts like a rational grown-up. His daughter has been kidnapped and held hostage by Zoom for far too long, and Barry's off stealing time from his Earth 2 Doppleganger. Harry isn't here for Barry's tendency to take everything personally.

 

Yes about Barry being self-centered.  We saw this last year where he literally risked the entire world to save his mommy.  We then have Barry and Cisco acting like immature tourists followed by Barry stupidly getting himself involved in Earth-2 Barry's life because the life of his fake-family was at stake.  At least Barry's disregard for human life made a little bit of sense last year because he was trying to save his mother.  But now he's risking Harry's daughter and still keeping that breach open so he can help his fake family?  He is entirely selfish and egotistical.  It's him yelling out "ME ME ME" to everyone else around him and people have suffered because of his selfish obsessions.  It's not even his Iris and Joe.

 

I thought Barry was finally getting smarter last week with how he dealt with the Wells situation.  But this is the same Barry who thought it was a bright idea to reveal himself to his enemies so he could spike the football in front of their faces after he locked them up.  He hasn't change a bit from last season.

Edited February 10, 2016 by benteen

[NateCon]

When Killer Frost announced her name I nearly spat out my tea, it was so unintentionally funny. DP delivers her lines like she's reading aloud from her script for the first time. 

She was ok though, I was expecting much worse.

Loved Reverb, Iris, Deadshot, Tommy Merlyn being alive (bonus Oliver being dead). Would have liked more Harry but it is a two parter. I wonder if they'll have poor Jay slip on a banana skin next week? I don't read comics, but I'm assuming Jay Garrick isn't supposed to be a drug addicted, sad sack, oaf?

[Primetimer]

Time for a bunch of characters to meet their Earth-2 counterparts!

Read the story

[johntfs]

 

1. The "I secretly injected myself with superspeed stuff which killed my DNA which is why I'm dying because I wanted to go faster" plot made less and less sense the more I thought about it, and that was without thinking much about it.  First and foremost, why would he be keeping that a secret from Team Flash, especially since one of them is another speedster, one of them has specifically been studying speedsters, one is a medical doctor who has been studying speedsters, and one is an engineer who keeps calculating how much faster speedsters need to run (faster!).  These are the very people you should be talking to, Jay!  And it's not like injecting yourself with speed stuff to make yourself a better hero is necessarily a bad thing, unless the showrunners were trying for some steroids/athletic drug metaphor that mostly went right past me.

 

I think part of the problem with Jay is that he was thinking "if I can't fix me, no one can."  The other part is him not wanting to admit that he was a drug addict who destroyed his own health and powers.  Many, many people in the "real" world refuse to admit things like that even to themselves, much less to others.

[sjohnson]

Since Cisco didn't set off the metahuman alarms it seems that for some reason he did lose his powers, whatever they are. 

 

Det. West should kick Earth-1 Barry's heinie good. 

[Ruby25]

I want to see E2 Barry freak out about the other guy kissing his wife.

[pookat]

This is exactly the kind of Flash episode that makes me love the show.

The entire 40's aesthetic of Earth-2 was gorgeous, from the chrome monorail to Iris' ma,azing pants.

Grant and Carlos need to do more comedy together because their joint horror at seeing Henry Hewitt was hilarious.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought nerdy E2 Barry was so appealing. From Jo-seph's description, though, he sounds a little more arrogant than E1 Barry, but I think that's just the father-who-thinks-nobody-is-good-enough-for-Iris talking since I'd like to believe that Iris is a good enough judge of character to choose a great guy to marry. It was sort of adorable though, seeing poor E1 Barry try to interact with his surrogate dad like normal and trying to hide the disappointment and surprise at being the hated son in law.

The reveal of Iris as the detective in charge of the operation was as satisfying to me as discovering that Rey was stronger with the Force than Kylo Ren. Very well done, show! Now do us all a solid and give E1 Iris as much regard and substantial storylines as E2 Iris and I'll be a happy girl.

Everyone was killed way too quickly on E2, which makes me wonder if they are setting up for a time travel redo. Probably too complicated, but I was bummed that Reverb was taken out so soon. I love the thought of two Ciscos ruling the worlds.

Edited February 11, 2016 by pookat

[johntfs]

I have this awful feeling that everyone on Earth-2 is going to die (except for Zoom).

 

I liked Iris being a vital part of her instead of being relegated to family storylines.  Reverb was a nerdy douche, which is kind of what you'd expect from evil Cisco.  Zoom is terrifying but still has a silly name.  I want to hear Detective Joe sing now.

[AudienceofOne]

On a completely shallow note, I am a sucker for hot geeks and Grant Gustin in glasses was just...

 

I'll be in my bunk

[Terrafamilia]

I hope Detective Lawton is spectacular in the behind the desk police work because he seems to be a liability in the field, at least when it might be dangerous.

 

Warning: Pedant Mode Engaged

'-Mancer' refers to a doer of some '-mancy' which refers to some form of divination, e.g. chiromancy - the foretelling of the future by reading palms. In recent decades the suffix has shifted to refer to some form of magic that is focused around some particular substance or process such as necromancy shifting from the attempt to foretell the future by invoking the spirits of the dead to 'death magic'. Writers of RPG materials probably had a lot to do with this shift.

Pedant Mode Disengaed

[tennisgurl]

That was so great! Probably my new favorite episode. But why, oh why, did they have to kill so many of the denizens of Earth 2? Especially Evil Cisco! I really hope dorky cop Deadshot is alive though.

 

So much fun being had in this episode, with all the DC Easter Eggs, the actors clearly having a blast playing alternate versions of their characters (the Captain is a 20s era gangster! Ronnie and Caitlin are super powered Bonnie and Clyde! Iris is a badass cop! Deadshot is a dorky detective!), and I loved the futuristic/retro look of Earth 2. Can we make a few more visits in the future? Pretty please?

 

Heh. Mayor Snart. I wonder if its Captain Cold or Lisa? I just really want the gang from LoT to somehow get to Earth 2, and meet up with Mayor Captain Cold (or Mayor Gilded Glider). Oh the wackiness that would ensue.

 

And word to the appreciation of nerdy 50s era CSI Barry. Barry, seriously consider investing in some glasses...  

[catrice2]

Did Cisco take the glasses off the dead guy?  Was he really dead? I am the minority because I thought the clothes on Iris looked strange.    I was still bored this episode. 

[netlyon2]

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode. Earth-2 definitely worked for me and I just ignored most of the things going on on Earth-1, so the overall experience was a good one. However, there are still some serious issues that they haven't fixed or have even made worse.

I like that after Barry knocked over Reverb he asked Cisco "That didn't hurt you, did it?" and Cisco's like "No. Why would it?"

  

Well, I think Barry should have known the answer to that one. He didn't appear to feel it when he tasered his Earth-2 counterpart! Did. Not. Like.

Jo-seph can STFU. So what if his daughter became a detective? She could have gone back to writing once Bartholomew was done with his forensics degree (or, hell, she could have chosen several other careers besides the police force while Bartholomew was in school). Iris and Bartholomew probably have no mortgage since they're living in the West house and no kids, so there is no reason she couldn't go back to writing if she wanted to but she seemed to enjoy being a detective. Boo hoo that she risks her life "every day" working for the police (I'm not trying to downplay how dangerous it is to be a police officer but I also find it a bit much when tv shows act like most police are being shot at every time they leave the station). She CHOSE that job and she CHOSE to keep it, so quit pouting and quit blaming Bartholomew for your daughter's choices.

  

Preach! This was just confirmation that Joe sucks in all universes (Jesse's always awesome, though!). Ugh. I still haven't gotten over last week when he had the nerve to gushingly ask Wally if he ever thought about being a cop and talk about the family tradition with Iris sitting right there. Apparently that bit of sexism is super-ingrained in the patriarchal jackass.

[1] I could tell that the actors were having a ball with changing up their characters' MO and body language. Both Candice and Carlos were FANTASTIC with how much they changed themselves; Candice used a much more aggressive/assertive way of walking, gesturing and speaking as Detective West. And Carlos changed his speaking cadence, body language and even his tone to play Reverb. So much fun to watch. I'm honestly sad that we may never see these versions again.

 

[2] Westallen was great to see, even if it wasn't completely on the level. While I enjoyed seeing the romantic scenes with my bubbies, I kinda wish Iris had figured out that it wasn't her Barry after she kissed him. Just to show how much of an awesome detective she is.

  

[1] I particularly enjoyed both of those characters as well. Earth-2 Iris was that much more self-assured and kickass that I could see her remaining adamant about becoming a cop, even in the face of her father's silent treatment. Interesting that the show went with it being about financing Barry's studies. I wonder if that was just Joe's rationalization and blaming it on Barry to avoid acknowledging that his daughter was determined to follow in his footsteps.

And, oh, Cisco. Reverb hit all the right notes for me, samurai-bun and all. He was like this great combination of Vamp!Willow (complete with inappropriate sexual tension with himself) and Future!Hiro (badass version of the lovable, but annoying nerd). Shame that he's dead now, but he did serve his purpose of showing Cisco (and the audience) what those powers have the potential to do. Like others, I was really hoping that Cisco had the presence of mind to pick up those glasses.

[2] I would have enjoyed the WestAllen if it had been between both Earth-2 characters. Having the interactions be between Earth-1 Barry and Earth-2 Iris was just gross; I spent the whole at-home sequence (minus the phone call with Mom) worried that the creep was actually going to make out or sleep with her, which would definitely fall into "NOT OKAY, Barry" territory. He was clearly playing out his fantasy and calling it heroism; I actually laughed when Joe-seph shut him down at the club. Nope, sorry, Barry; you can't have everything you've wanted by going Single-White-Female on yourself.

I also really like Harry -- I know some think he's too rude and gruff, but I think he's the only one on the show in two seasons who really acts like a rational grown-up. His daughter has been kidnapped and held hostage by Zoom for far too long, and Barry's off stealing time from his Earth 2 Doppleganger. Harry isn't here for Barry's tendency to take everything personally.

  

Cosign. I've been Team Wells ever since we found out that Zoom has Harry's daughter. In fact, I haven't found the Harry/Cisco dynamic funny or cute since Wells has a very good reason to be a grouchy dick, a reason which they all know but didn't seem to care about. Until last week, there seemed to be no sense of urgency about stopping Zoom because he was out of sight and no one other than Wells seemed to care about Jessie, even Caitlyn, who convinced Wells to stay on Earth-1. While Barry's speech won him some cool points last week, he squandered all of that growth-based good will this week by acting selfish and moronic.

When Killer Frost announced her name I nearly spat out my tea, it was so unintentionally funny. DP delivers her lines like she's reading aloud from her script for the first time. 

Oh, this description is just perfect. There's always this tone of wonder, like she's just discovering words for the first time. At this point, Panabaker is officially the worst actress on any show I watch, surpassing Nikki Reed as Busty Ross. Caitlyn/Jay scenes might be worse than Arrow flashbacks.

[Ruby25]

Once again, I feel like this episode proved that the show really should have just deviated from canon with Iris's profession and simply made her a cop on Earth 1 as well. They just know how to integrate cops into the action better, and it was so great having Iris play such an active and assertive role.

 

Maybe they should figure out a way to have her go in that direction on our Earth too. They already established that it was what she wanted to do from the beginning.

[millennium]

Earth-2 Iris should silence all the complaints that Earth-1 Iris should get meatier story ines: the actress doesn't have the chops.   Her portrayal of a tough cop was cringe-worthy. 

 

Joe singing ... meh.   Seemed more like a favor to the actor than an organic story element.   The fact that Earth-2 Joe was an asshole was unexpected though.

 

Killer Frost was fun at first, but I didn't like how she was downgraded to a minion at the end.

 

Nerdy Barry?   It's not such a far cry from Earth-1 Barry.   I know it's a bit cliche but I would have preferred our guys encounter an evil Barry.

 

I don't blame Wells for being annoyed with Barry.   They went to Earth-2 to rescue Jesse, right on the heels of that big hero speech last week, and the first thing Barry does is put Wells' daughter on the back burner in favor of his own interests.   More of a dick move than a hero move.

 

While I'm sure it was meant to be novel, the detour into the alternate Wests sucked the wind right out of the sails of last week's "let's go get Jesse" decision.   I also question the morality of what Barry did by substituting himself for the real Earth-2 Barry.    Earth-2 Barry was deprived of ever resolving the bad relationship with his father-in-law.   And Earth-2 Joe died as a direct result of Barry Allen inserting himself into that situation to satisfy his own selfish curiosity.    He was supposed to go to police headquarters and access information, not play house with Earth-2 Iris.    Killer Snow and Deathstorm were led to the club for no other reason than a breacher was there.   Had Barry not indulged himself in domestic fantasy, Earth-2 Joe would still be alive.   Again, more dick than hero.

 

Maybe we need an Unpopular Opinions thread.   I thought this episode really missed the mark.   It should have been a straight-up rescue mission.

Edited February 11, 2016 by millennium

[zannej]

Maybe Barry thought that because Cisco had the vibe powers that somehow it might cause him pain if his doppelganger was hurt. That's the only reason I can think of for him to ask that. At least he was concerned for Cisco's well-being. Unfortunately, he didn't seem concerned with the well-being of his own doppelganger, the morality of pretending to be said doppelganger and spending with Iris, and the fact that they are on a time crunch, and Jesse Wells.

 

I wonder if part of Barry's lack of realization about how serious things are and having the deadline stem from his character trait of apparently being late all the time (not seeming to care if he was late or just not having good time management skills) combined with his ability to travel back in time and reset things when the crap really hits the fan. It's like having an Undo button on life in some ways. Having the ability to get a do-over might make one a little less appreciative of permanent consequences.

[sjohnson]

 Caitlyn/Jay scenes might be worse than Arrow flashbacks.

Is there really any need to get so vicious? It's only a TV show!

 

Seriously, though, women get the short end of the stick in almost every script. It does seem a little fair to dwell on Panabaker's difficulties turning Caitlin Snow into a simulacrum of a human being given what she has to work with. I'm not seeing  Patton or van Santen doing so much better most of the time. 

[miracole]

I wanted to like this episode more than I did.

 

I love the film noir quality Earth 2 seems to have.

 

As others have said the way Barry went about getting Iris' help was crappy. Letting her think he was her husband especially during such a devastating time was a jerk move on his part. However this should not have happened because they should have had Iris figure out that he wasn't her Barry.

 

Barry was far more enamored with Joe than he was with Iris as always.

 

I loved Cisco as Reverb but as someone who was trying to take over Zooms territory I thought he should have given Zoom more of a fight or at least have tried to fight.

 

Goodness, they're making Jay look worse and worse.

 

Caitlin is terrible in any incarnation. That. Is All.

 

I like That Iris actually had something to do but we'll see what happens once they return to Earth 1.