S06.E06: Season 6, Episode 6

[Amethyst]

Is it horrible to say that a small small part of me is glad this is the last season so I won't ever have to see that Despicable Daisy ever again? She is working my last nerve. "Why shouldn't they open the house and let anyone through, people have a right." Because it's not socialism! She has the nerve to be jealous of Mrs Patmore, who had treated her like the daughter she never had? She is awful.

 

Oh my God, yes!  That part was killing me.  I was wondering if Downton had always been some type of public property where people were legally allowed to visit.  Instead of, you know, an actual private home.  Rich or poor, they don't have to let people traipse through their house if they don't want to.

 

I feel bad for Sophie, because the way they're writing Daisy is atrocious.

[millennium]

Thomas committing suicide would make me very upset :(

If I could ensure any of the characters has a happy ending I would choose Thomas. His scene at the end of the show today almost made me cry.

 

Thomas was quite a bastard for several seasons.    And even though he has mellowed in recent years, he's still not exactly what you would call a nice person.   If karma's caught up to him, he's earned it. 

 

I'm starting to think Daisy is bipolar.

 

I will miss Lady Mary's wardrobe once the show ends.

[Kitty Redstone]

I've gone back and forth about Thomas over the years but felt bad for him there at the end.  I also hope he lands with Bertie's cousin, happy and far away from Downton.  I'd also like to see Edith, Bertie and Marigold in London.  I'm not invested in Mary or who she ends up with but hope it's not Tom.  He deserves someone more interesting. 

 

Carson can DIAF anytime now. 

 

I've also been wondering about Daisy's exams.  Is she studying to earn a high school diploma?  A teacher's degree? 

 

I wasn't surprised with the Crawley's ignorance of the Abbey and its contents.  As far as they're concerned, that's what advisors, managers, servants and others who have to work for a living are for.  I've met some wealthy people who take a bizarre sort of pride in being incurious and not knowing much of anything about anything.  It made me very glad to have grown up in a working class home, where learning was both a means to an end and an end in itself.

 

Non-spoilery speculation: Mrs. Hughes leaves Carson and sets up shop with Mrs. Patmore and her B&B, and they solve crimes together part time.

 

This would immediately become my favorite show (cozy mystery fiend here).  I'm sad it won't ever happen.  :-(

[Roseanna]

I agree that Mary's bitchiness to Edith is getting REALLY old but I do think that she is feeling extra annoyed with Edith right now because she's caught on that the entire family has been conspiring to keep her in the dark about Marigold.  I assumed that that is where the extra level of snark was coming from.   Meanwhile, Edith is feeling much happier than usual because, for the first time in a very long while, someone seems to want her  -- hence her not being bothered by Mary or thinking a mention of Michael Grayson was the "downer" that Mary took it to be.

 

I don't understand why the restaurant where Edith had been with Gregson would look gloomy to Mary - unless she subconsciously connects Gregson's death with that of Matthew. Or maybe she is simply annoyed that Edith has more experience of restaurants in London - and also a freer life there. For all Downton's splendor, Mary is tied with it.

 

In any case, that Edith can freely speak of happy memories with Gregson shows that she has accepted the past and put it behind her.  Mary never speaks of Matthew, except once in the nursery with Isobel and Tom.     

[Roseanna]

I don't understand why people are calling Tom the matchmaker when he offered to take a cab by himself, leaving Henry to walk Mary home. Mary set that surprise meeting up all on her own with the express purpose of seeing Henry. Tom knew he was going to be a 5th wheel from the outset.

 

It's because the conversations Tom has with Mary about Henry. It's not only that Mary and Tom are become now so close that she speaks about her love life with Tom, but he doesn't only listen and ask questions without taking sides, but is actively pushing her as if she doesn't know her own mind or he knows her mind better than she. It can't be only that she speaks other than she feels for the audience understood her feelings towards Matthews perfectly in S2. 

[AndySmith]

Or maybe she is simply annoyed that Edith has more experience of restaurants in London - and also a freer life there. For all Downton's splendor, Mary is tied with it.

 

Why would any of that annoy Mary?

[Milburn Stone]

I was puzzled by Mary running around trying to get Tom and Anna to tell her about Marigold. When she said in this episode that she would be staying at Rosamunde's house in London, I assumed she'd be targeting the person who more than anyone else (excepting Edith herself) is clearly in it up to her eyeballs, Rosamunde. I feel like they're dumbing Mary down. Edith was away for a year with Rosamunde. That's the only time Edith could have been pregnant and given birth, and of course if Mary does the math with Marigold's age that would confirm that she was born when Edith was out of the country. With Rosamunde. Why is she not bugging Rosamunde with pointed "innocent" questions about what she and Edith did on their year-long trip? Maybe I'm just grumpy because I love the actress playing Rosamunde and I was expecting to see her appear in this episode and was looking forward to her conversation with Mary.

 

Just one of many "scenes we didn't get to see" because they would have taken too much concentration to write.

[Roseanna]

Why would any of that annoy Mary?

 

Because she is a Queen Bee who must have all whereas Edith must have nothing. 

 

Besides, in Jessica Fellowes' book Laura Carmichael spoke that the sisters are as obstinate and envious towards each and that Mary envies Edith's freedom in London.

[AndySmith]

Well I'm glad the actress playing Mary confirmed that.

[Roseanna]

Just one of many "scenes we didn't get to see" because they would have taken too much concentration to write.

 

I don't think so. While it's true that Rosamund at the time knew best what Edith did in Switzerland, Mary knows on the basis of the conversation between Cora and Violet that they had the knowledge now also. But she doesn't confront them.

 

That can only mean that Mary either anticipates that neither Rosamund, Violet or Cora wouldn't voluntarily tell her the truth (or if she tricked them to admit it, they would tell Edith that she knows which she doesn't want) but she believes she can somehow persuade Anna or Tom to tell her (although she can be sure that they know before she tried) and/or she is most hurt that they hadn't told her.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Roseanna

[shipperx]

[quote name="Andorra" post="1932827" {

The only "deeper" conversation between Sybil and Edith, that we see, is in season 2, when Sybil tells her she is much nicer than before the war. To me that is telling.

The main thing that tells me is that Mary is the primary protagonist of the show and it comes with a hefty dose of protagonist privilege. She gets to participate in more storylines. We see her get a haircut or going to a pointless fashion show when we don't even get to see Sybil and Tom's wedding or Edith being told of Michael's death. We have the who gets Mary's hand sweepstakes for two years but Tom doesn't actually get a love interest. Mary gets more airtime period. It doesn't surprise me in the least when she gets more oppportunity to interact with other characters when it is not directly related to her own story while nearly everyone else is confined and defined by their own storyline alone or as part of Mary's foil/sidekick. That's just the way protagonist privilege works. Mary is Fellowes favorite toy in the toy box.

[terrymct]

That seems unlikely given Robert and Cora's conversation after dinner. Robert implied that Bertie had no expectations beyond being agent for his cousin's house. Cora's only response was that at least Bertie is a gentleman, which I assume is code for "one of us", something Michael Gregson couldn't claim.

 

 

Which is funny in itself because Cora wasn't "one of us" before she married Robert.  Her family was new money for America, come to bail out the blue bloods.

[Macbeth]

I think Tom is happy to see Henry because he's one of the few men he comes in contact with

who shares his interests. Aside from Mary, Tom really doesn't have any friends. I do feel sorry

for the actor who plays Tom, a thankless role, but he seems to take it in his stride. Maybe he's

just happy to have the work. Or have had the work.

The actress who plays Daisy probably doesn't like what Daisy's turned into either. But at least

she's getting a storyline as much as it sucks. It's still screentime for her.

 

 

I respectfully disagree. I would be happy to see Allen Leech on my screen at anytime.  IMO his character being missing the 1st episode was a huge hole.  He has a lovely presence.  Sophie McShera could be screwed in terms of future employment.   In past seasons her character could be annoying but was largely sympathetic.  This year I am fast forwarding through her scenes. 

 

She isn't playing a good villain to watch like O'Brien or Barrows (formerly known as a Villain) - her character has been reduced to a whiny, petty, selfish, shrew.   She dares to talk back to her "betters" that makes you want to cringe and root for the upper class instead of cheering for her.  

 

 

[marceline]

Non-spoilery speculation: Mrs. Hughes leaves Carson and sets up shop with Mrs. Patmore and her B&B, and they solve crimes together part time.

 

I would watch the hell out of that show.

 

 

Oh my god, Daisy stop being such an outrageous bitch. Part of me sort of understands that she likes having Mr. Mason to herself and be a daddy's little girl to him, but Mrs. Patmore took you under her wing. You'd still be scrubbing floors and lighting the fires if it weren't for her. A rational person would most likely be thrilled that the two people who always looked out for their well being got together.

 

That's what I don't get. These are two people who have been like parents to her. I'd understand if she was a little squicked out the way one could be when imagining their parents "hooking up" but the animosity is ridiculous. Opening the note and throwing it in the trash?! That was revolting.

[lulee]

Non-spoilery speculation: Mrs. Hughes leaves Carson and sets up shop with Mrs. Patmore and her B&B, and they solve crimes together part time.

Sounds good but could get boring if Bates and Baxter end up suspected or interrogated every episode.

[KariLois]

If I were Mrs. Hughes-Carson, I would ask my awful husband to get lovemaking tips from his Lordship. Maybe that would put an end to the constant criticism.

If I were Mrs. Hughes-Carson, I would ask my awful husband to get lovemaking tips from his Lordship. Maybe that would put an end to the constant criticism.

Sorry for the double post.

[ShadowFacts]

 

I'm mixed on Thomas.  I feel like Carson is being particularly hostile with him to an unfair degree, but I also understand that Thomas has been entirely nasty and untrustworthy during his time on the show, so it's not like Carson's attitude is completely undeserved.

 

The thing is, if Carson still thinks Thomas cannot be trusted, he should have been let go a long time ago.  Carson is full of himself and abuses his power by being a bitch to Thomas, piling on the verbal abuse.  We now see the love of power bubbling up in his treatment of Mrs. Hughes. If Thomas can't be trusted, Carson is breaching his duty a little in not protecting the house and family he loves so much from the nasty, terrible, untrustworthy under butler who he just happens to enjoy tormenting.  It's unseemly, and makes Carson look worse in my eyes than Thomas, who has made significant progress -- he didn't say one nasty word to either of the men he interviewed with, and was in fact kind to the addled old aristocrat, when no one else could see.  Not to mention wanting to help Andrew, and having helped Jimmy.  There's some balance to the crappy things he has pulled, some forward movement.  Carson is stuck being an ass.

[Haleth]

It seems as if Robert's brush with death has loosened him up a bit.  The scene with the boy who wandered in was charming.  But the thing that surprised me the most was when he spoke so encouragingly to Cora about Edith taking over the magazine and becoming the toast of London.  (Or something like that.)  Of course he resorted back to Stuffy Robert when Cora was playing with the idea of making the hospital presidency a real job.

 

I had to laugh at one scene where Baxter is preparing Cora for bed, helping her put on a robe and tying it just so.  Cora walks 20 ft into the bedroom and immediately takes it off.  That and Mary's horror at the thought of having to dress herself makes me think these ladies just have no clue, do they?  (And yes, Mary's dress was fabulous.)

 

At least we were spared any scenes with Denker and Sprat!

Edited February 9, 2016 by Haleth

[WatchrTina]

 

I've also been wondering about Daisy's exams.  Is she studying to earn a high school diploma?  A teacher's degree?

I think I recall her saying that running a farm took more education than she had so Mrs. Patmore encouraged her to improve herself.  It was all started with an eye toward Daisy one day taking over Mr. Mason's farm, inheriting the tenancy as William's widow.  I now predict that Andy and Daisy will come to an understanding (make a plan to marry) and Daisy's education will offset Andy's deficiency. And then Daisy will get over her jealousy of Mrs. Patmore's friendship with Mr. Mason.

 

I actually have a very successful uncle -- a self-made millionaire who started out as a traveling salesman -- who is dyslexic.  My aunt did the books when he was first starting out and continued to do so for many, many years -- long after she could have retired -- because they are a team and her abilities with numbers makes up for his difficulties.  Reminds me of what could be for Andy and Daisy.  

Edited February 9, 2016 by WatchrTina

[lulee]

Barrow is such a tricky character to ponder. I feel like if he were a student, he'd mostly be skating by with C- or D+ most of the time (in this metaphorical school, conduct and attitude are at least as important as performance) but then has done well on pop quizzes (like rescuing Edith from the fire) or extracurriculars (like playing with the children). He's wanted out repeatedly and been close to quitting repeatedly. So I don't hope for a sad ending for him, but it would be a twist for him to end the show with a tidy future at Downton.

[dangwoodchucks]

I respectfully disagree. I would be happy to see Allen Leech on my screen at anytime.  IMO his character being missing the 1st episode was a huge hole.  He has a lovely presence.  Sophie McShera could be screwed in terms of future employment.   In past seasons her character could be annoying but was largely sympathetic.  This year I am fast forwarding through her scenes. 

 

She isn't playing a good villain to watch like O'Brien or Barrows (formerly known as a Villain) - her character has been reduced to a whiny, petty, selfish, shrew.   She dares to talk back to her "betters" that makes you want to cringe and root for the upper class instead of cheering for her.  

Sounds like her character in Cinderella, maybe JF liked the way she played Drisella and went with it.

[Capricasix]

Ever notice that Daisy still wears her wedding ring, even though her five-minute marriage ended almost 10 years ago? (I don't remember what year William died.) That is odd.

[abbyzenn]

Haleth - I was laughing about that same scene - Baxter helping Cora put on her robe to walk the 20 feet to her bed.   If the Crawleys were really serious about saving money they'd cut back on the women's wardrobes (of course that would cut off one of the reasons I watch this show).  There was at least 2 different robes that Cora wore during this episode.  And Mary and Edith seem to have a coat for every occasion - I mean how many winter coats do you really need.  I'm sure any one of their dresses (including the day dresses) cost more than they pay one of the servants for a year.

 

I also thought it was funny that Cora was dressing for dinner with her long gloves when it was only her and Edith at the house - Robert confined to bed, Mary and Tom were in London.

 

Although he doesn't have his own story line, Tom is in more scenes and getting more dialogue that the past 2 seasons.  Has anyone else noticed how blue his eyes are?  Maybe I'm just noticing because he's actually getting camera time instead of just standing in the background moaning about how he should leave Downton but his eyes are really standing out this year.

 

For the life of me I can't figure out why Mrs. Hughes married Carson.  She's been this long without a man she could have gone a few more years.  It would have been better to run a B&B with Mrs. Patmore.

[proserpina65]

Mrs. Drewe's mental state is pure speculation

 

In the case of my comment, and my comment alone (I don't speak for anyone else), I thought Mrs. Drewe was starting to act a bit unbalanced before Edith took Marigold away.  It's my opinion based on what was presented in the show, and I stick by it, but I do realize others have differing opinions.

[proserpina65]

It sounds like Mr.Carson may have a couple of openings at his house for those who lose their jobs at the big house - Thomas is not on that list of course.  

 

That was quite a house Mr. Carson has (from the outside it looked impressive).  I am not including Mrs Hughes in the ownership as she apparently is the help.  Mr. Carson is finally lord of his own manor.  He better be careful- as Gosford Park showed - there are many poisons hanging about a regular mansion.   

 

I did notice that his house has electricity, while the Bates still had gas lamps.  Nice touch DA.

I thought Carson and Mrs. Carson/Hughes were living in a house on the Downton estate provided for them by the family, like Anna and Bates do.  It seemed to me the house they were buying needed work which hasn't been done yet.

[Constantinople]

I don't want Mary & Tom to get together.

 

When they're older, how can George, Sybbie & Marigold be expected to have a normal, healthy cousinly threeway if their mother/aunt/aunt is hooked-up with their uncle/father/uncle?

[txhorns79]

Ever notice that Daisy still wears her wedding ring, even though her five-minute marriage ended almost 10 years ago? (I don't remember what year William died.) That is odd.

 

It's even more odd if you remember that she wasn't really all that into marrying him.  I think she said about a million times that she didn't love him, so she didn't want to marry him.  Though maybe she wears the ring more to be supportive of Mr. Mason at this point.   

Edited February 9, 2016 by txhorns79

[jrlr]

I've gone back and forth about Thomas over the years but felt bad for him there at the end.  I also hope he lands with Bertie's cousin, happy and far away from Downton.  I'd also like to see Edith, Bertie and Marigold in London.  I'm not invested in Mary or who she ends up with but hope it's not Tom.  He deserves someone more interesting. 

 

Carson can DIAF anytime now. 

 

I've also been wondering about Daisy's exams.  Is she studying to earn a high school diploma?  A teacher's degree? 

 

I wasn't surprised with the Crawley's ignorance of the Abbey and its contents.  As far as they're concerned, that's what advisors, managers, servants and others who have to work for a living are for.  I've met some wealthy people who take a bizarre sort of pride in being incurious and not knowing much of anything about anything.  It made me very glad to have grown up in a working class home, where learning was both a means to an end and an end in itself.

 

 

This would immediately become my favorite show (cozy mystery fiend here).  I'm sad it won't ever happen.  :-(

LOL - "Rosemary & Thyme: The Early Years."  I'd love it, too!

I've gone back and forth about Thomas over the years but felt bad for him there at the end.  I also hope he lands with Bertie's cousin, happy and far away from Downton.  I'd also like to see Edith, Bertie and Marigold in London.  I'm not invested in Mary or who she ends up with but hope it's not Tom.  He deserves someone more interesting. 

 

Carson can DIAF anytime now. 

 

I've also been wondering about Daisy's exams.  Is she studying to earn a high school diploma?  A teacher's degree? 

 

I wasn't surprised with the Crawley's ignorance of the Abbey and its contents.  As far as they're concerned, that's what advisors, managers, servants and others who have to work for a living are for.  I've met some wealthy people who take a bizarre sort of pride in being incurious and not knowing much of anything about anything.  It made me very glad to have grown up in a working class home, where learning was both a means to an end and an end in itself.

 

 

This would immediately become my favorite show (cozy mystery fiend here).  I'm sad it won't ever happen.  :-(

LOL - "Rosemary & Thyme: The Early Years."  I'd love it, too!

[marceline]

In the case of my comment, and my comment alone (I don't speak for anyone else), I thought Mrs. Drewe was starting to act a bit unbalanced before Edith took Marigold away.  It's my opinion based on what was presented in the show, and I stick by it, but I do realize others have differing opinions.

 

Personally I think that was because Mrs. Drewe knew that she was being kept in the dark about something. First she thought Edith had the hots for Drewe then she began to wonder if Drew had the hots for Edith. Since she didn't have the facts, she couldn't understand why these two were behaving so strangely. All Mrs. Drewe did was become a mother to a child in need. She committed fully to Marigold as if she'd given birth to her and in return she got treated like the problem when she thought she was being the solution. IMO, Mrs. Drewe is as innocent as Marigold. She got punished for being a loving, generous person. She lost her home, the child she loved and the ability to trust her husband.

[proserpina65]

The thing is, if Carson still thinks Thomas cannot be trusted, he should have been let go a long time ago.

 

Robert was going to have Carson fire Thomas over the wine theft at the end of Season One, but Thomas quit first.  Then, in Season Three (I think it was) Robert only kept Thomas after the Jimmy incident because he needed him for the Downton cricket team.  After the thing with Sybbie's nanny and keeping the house from burning down, it would be hard to outright fire Thomas, but that doesn't mean that he's trustworthy.  Plus, when he was butler while the Carsons were on their honeymoon, he acted like a petty little tyrant towards the other servants, and it was noticed by Robert (who, admittedly, is a bit blind regarding Carson's own inclinations towards being a tyrant).  I may dislike Carson for a lot of reasons but his mistrust of Thomas is one point is his favor.  Maybe the only one this season.

[roomtorome]

Why would the actress playing Daisy be screwed in the future?  She is playing the character as she has been directed by the director.  And, she is doing a good job of it given how many people are so put off by the character now when we watch.  It's not like the actress is making the acting choices herself for the role.

 

I didn't watch last season as I just couldn't bear all the redundancy - but am watching to see how it concludes but I do hope someone, someday, puts together a composite online of MS' moments - just her - I'd even buy that.  

 

I even rewound to watch what MS did with that little line at tea with Violet early in the episode when she asked if Violet was "weakening" as well...it was a small hand gesture and head tilt - just so divine.  

 

I think I might have hung in and even watched last season if I could stand watching Mary  - I get having a protagonist, one that may not be all that likable but this character is just a nasty shrew for me - I don't care how nice she has been to Anna, etc - and, probably not fair, but I cannot listen to her voice (I don't know if the actress who plays Mary speaks as the character - I doubt it but I've never heard her natural voice) but, man, as Mary - it is nails on a chalkboard for me.

 

If Mary does know that Marigold is her sister's child, how nasty is she then to speak of her own niece as she did in this last episode; it is why I am hoping like hell she doesn't really know because otherwise, it is really despicable behavior about a child. (My opinion only!)

[dangwoodchucks]

I thought Carson and Mrs. Carson/Hughes were living in a house on the Downton estate provided for them by the family, like Anna and Bates do.  It seemed to me the house they were buying needed work which hasn't been done yet.

I thought Anna and Mr Bates were living in one of the cottages provided by the family too, but Mr Bates mentioned that they could sell the house when he and Anna were discussing how to pay Mary's fancy lady parts doctor.

[Black Knight]

Mrs. Drewe always struck me as being a bit off-kilter. She should have been very pleased to have Lady Edith Crawley take an interest in Marigold, as that connection would have improved Marigold's prospects immensely. Lots of parents hoped for that for their children, that a wealthy patron would take an interest. Mrs. Drewe was instead jealous and resentful and paranoid from the beginning and eventually banned Edith from seeing Marigold at all, which was not in Marigold's best interests.

 

Edith grew to not like Mrs. Drewe as a result, which was understandable. I don't think Edith behaved well, but this is the thing that I'll say for Edith over Mary: Edith doesn't have problems with people who don't go after her first. As I've posted before, I have no doubt that Mary is the one who started their antagonistic dynamic because she didn't like not being the only child anymore and so she set out to make sure Edith would always be in her shadow. Likewise, Mrs. Drewe is the one who turned their dynamic negative. If she had been civil with Edith there wouldn't have been any problems between them. Yes, it would be nice if Edith were the sort who could be the bigger person and choose to take the high road, rise above, turn the other cheek, etc., but that's clearly not her. But Edith doesn't start the problems. The only people she has problems with are people who went after her first. She gets along fine with everyone else and is generally much nicer and more gracious and more thoughtful to others than Mary. Edith's men actually like her as a person, while Mary's men all basically acknowledge that she is a difficult person. If they do indeed put her with Tom (which, I hope not) - he's no different in that regard. He's called her inflexible and unreasonable, considers her someone that needs to be "handled" (which is not a partnership of equals, let me point out, unlike the way he's described his marriage to Sybil), and won't tell her about Marigold because he knows how she's likely to use that information. Anna had no problem telling Mrs. Hughes her suspicions about Marigold because she knows Mrs. Hughes is a decent person to her core who would never use that information in a hurtful way, but she won't tell Mary, even in this episode when Mary was once again doing a nice thing for Anna.

 

Free Mrs. Hughes!

 

ETA:

If Mary does know that Marigold is her sister's child, how nasty is she then to speak of her own niece as she did in this last episode; it is why I am hoping like hell she doesn't really know because otherwise, it is really despicable behavior about a child. (My opinion only!)

As much as I criticize Mary, I think she specifically said that to try to get a rise out of Tom and see if he'd respond with, "But Marigold really is Edith's daughter." I don't think she really meant it. She's trying to get him to admit he knows and so she went the route of trying to provoke him.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Black Knight

[RedHawk]

I thought Anna and Mr Bates were living in one of the cottages provided by the family too, but Mr Bates mentioned that they could sell the house when he and Anna were discussing how to pay Mary's fancy lady parts doctor.

IIRC the "house" was one he inherited from his mother, somewhere in London, or perhaps York?

[Artymouse]

 I may dislike Carson for a lot of reasons but his mistrust of Thomas is one point is his favor.  Maybe the only one this season.

 

I see your point (even though I'm a big Thomas fan), but I would be a little more on Carson's side if he weren't so gleeful about putting Thomas in his place. Thomas has done his share of bad things (more than his share, honestly), but Carson just seems to revel in making Thomas feel unwanted, unwelcome, un-whatever.

 

Carson has a major superiority complex, and it shows most glaringly in his dealings with Thomas. I think that Carson probably, if he would expand his mind by a molecule or two, realize that maybe Thomas' word has some value. And also that, after the business with Jimmy, it's extremely unlikely that Thomas would behave the same way on the Downton premises. Again, I say this as someone who likes Thomas -- probably mostly because Rob James-Collier does such a good job of showing the humanity beneath Thomas' bad behavior -- so I get that others may disagree.

 

But also, Carson has become such a tool in the past few episodes that I would probably be on Thomas' side no matter what. 

[SoSueMe]

Why would the actress playing Daisy be screwed in the future?  She is playing the character as she has been directed by the director.  And, she is doing a good job of it given how many people are so put off by the character now when we watch.  It's not like the actress is making the acting choices herself for the role.

Sophie has done a great job playing Daisy. As far as future acting jobs go it could work for her or against her. She was appearing in Galavant, very funny. Sadly I have been sidetracked and not seen several episodes so I don't know if her character has lasted.

[ShadowFacts]

Robert was going to have Carson fire Thomas over the wine theft at the end of Season One, but Thomas quit first.  Then, in Season Three (I think it was) Robert only kept Thomas after the Jimmy incident because he needed him for the Downton cricket team.  After the thing with Sybbie's nanny and keeping the house from burning down, it would be hard to outright fire Thomas, but that doesn't mean that he's trustworthy.  Plus, when he was butler while the Carsons were on their honeymoon, he acted like a petty little tyrant towards the other servants, and it was noticed by Robert (who, admittedly, is a bit blind regarding Carson's own inclinations towards being a tyrant).  I may dislike Carson for a lot of reasons but his mistrust of Thomas is one point is his favor.  Maybe the only one this season.

 

I get what you're saying, but keeping Thomas on for years because he's a good cricket player but still saying nothing he could ever do would make him trustworthy, still reflects badly on Carson -- you don't trust or like someone who has also actually saved Edith's life, but they still are not good enough?  That seems like a lack of integrity to me;  now they can just chalk it up to financial instability so out he goes.  In any case, it does not give Carson any excuse for his verbal abuse.  I can fully understand Thomas' despair at hearing it this last time.  I do think that with the scene where Robert lectures Thomas about kindness, and then Thomas telling Carson there's a lot more to the job than he realized, along with that melodramatic scene of Carson taking his name off the door, that a good possibility exists that Thomas will be staying on one way or another.  Unless Fellowes really has Thomas' suicide in the plan, Carson will most likely have to eat his words when Andrew confirms that nothing untoward happened.  And then eat some more words when Mrs. Hughes finally brings the hammer down.

[RedHawk]

I feel so sorry for Mrs. Hughes-Carson. What is there to admire about Carson besides his loyalty [cough "slavish devotion" cough] to the Crawleys?

Edited February 9, 2016 by RedHawk

[Constantinople]

The building was originally an Abbey - a place where monks lived.  During the Dissolution of the monasteries, under Henry XIII, a lot of the church's property was turned over to the crown, since Henry made himself the head of the church, that meant turned over to him.  He handed them out to those who pleased him.  So there's no going back to "medieval times" for the Granthams and Crawleys.  They go back to the Reformation at best.

The Crawleys could not have lived at Downton before the Reformation, but the family may have been around beforehand. Perhaps in the area, perhaps somewhere else. There's a town named Crawley in West Sussex.

Sir John Cavendish was from the village of Cavendish in Suffolk and died in the Peasants' Revolt of 1381. His great-grandson (or great-great grandsom), Sir William, allegedly made a pile from the Dissolution and moved to his second wife's home in Derbyshire (bonus, Sir William once served as MP for Thirsk). Sir William's great-great grandson was made the 1st Duke of Devonshire (they're on their 12th now).

Something similar could have happened with the Crawley family. Not that we're likely to find out given the family's ignorance of its own history. Aside from what was in this episode, the only "history" I recall is about Lady Violet and Robert's father; a few catty remarks Violet made about her mother-in-law back in Season 1; Matthew's descent from a younger son of the 3rd Earl; and that "there hasn't been a Catholic Crawley since the Reformation" (Robert, when Tom announced that Sybbie would be baptized as a Catholic).

[Artymouse]

I agree, RedHawk, his decision to forego alcohol because Lord Grantham can't drink was over-the-top even for Carson. He's been such a jerk that I'm starting to wonder if he's unhappy with the idea of marriage and is consciously or subconsciously trying to sabotage his marriage and drive Mrs. Hughes away.

[SusanSunflower]

Trying hard to find an alternative scenario in which newlywed Carson is terrified of revealing his off-duty self to Mrs. Hughes -- except of course, they've shared plenty of private moments in the course of their work for decades and his rectitude and obsession with detail is not something she's ever been shown to have admired ... No, he's just a petty tyrant who now has a new playground and underling to bully... If it were something else, some neurotic reactivity on Carson's part, we should have been give some clue by now.

 

Carson's remarks about using house staff to provide services to his private married residence were ... cough... unlikely ... maybe he'd like to borrow some "good" China, crystal and silverware for his meals ... rather than feign abstinence, what an opportunity to borrow some of the better, if lesser, wines.

Edited February 9, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[RedHawk]

I agree, RedHawk, his decision to forego alcohol because Lord Grantham can't drink was over-the-top even for Carson. He's been such a jerk that I'm starting to wonder if he's unhappy with the idea of marriage and is consciously or subconsciously trying to sabotage his marriage and drive Mrs. Hughes away.

His sadness about leaving his room at the Abbey could be another clue, and also the comment that the honeymoon had seemed long. Yes, his first love is Downton Abbey and Mrs. Hughes seems to be a distant second.

I know it won't happen but it would be amazing if Fellowes had written a realistic story wherein the couple realized marriage had been a mistake. Barring that, I'm hoping for Carson to have a massive heart attack.

Edited February 9, 2016 by RedHawk

[Artymouse]

Trying hard to find an alternative scenario in which newlywed Carson is terrified of revealing his off-duty self to Mrs. Hughes -- except of course, they've shared plenty of private moments in the course of their work for decades and his rectitude and obsession with detail is not something she's ever been shown to have admired 

 

My new theory: Maybe he's disappointed in the ... er .... sexy times with Mrs. Hughes.

[SusanSunflower]

please, heart attack, massive, instantly fatal. 

 

ETA: Then again, worse, perhaps SHE'S been profoundly disappointed by their sexy times ... 

Edited February 9, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[Artymouse]

 

ETA: Then again, worse, perhaps SHE'S been profoundly disappointed by their sexy times ... 

 

Especially if he's as overbearing with the instructions/suggestions about that as he is with the cooking and housekeeping. "Perhaps you could ask Ethel to show you some of the techniques that make this sort of thing more pleasant for men."

[skyways]

I'm just having a good laugh at the Carson-Hughes coupling. Fellowes should have left them as they were. Huges looks diminshed compared to her earlier self in previous episodes. Now she can't snap back him or show attitude as she's waliking out on him ( who remembers that scene?). It was perfect between them. But noooooo the so-called shippers have to be appeased. I hope they are having a good time the way I am. lol.

[SusanSunflower]

I was considering a sort of reverse of  "no good deed goes unpunished" common thread ... with Hughes accepting Carson's "charity" in marrying her (in part because of their future plans of a B&B or small hotel) and Mr. Mason accepting Daisy's "help" in getting Yew Tree Farm (which also was not entirely devoid of self-interest on Daisy's part -- her inheritance, etc.)

 

Hughes had no savings for retirement because of her sister, Mr. Mason's security was lost when his old landlord had a change in management plans ... both may live to deeply regret accepting the self-interested "generosity" of others ... 

 

eta: Julian seems to often have some sort of "sermonette" or  implied message in his plotting ... 

Edited February 9, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[izabella]

Trying hard to find an alternative scenario in which newlywed Carson is terrified of revealing his off-duty self to Mrs. Hughes -- except of course, they've shared plenty of private moments in the course of their work for decades and his rectitude and obsession with detail is not something she's ever been shown to have admired ... No, he's just a petty tyrant who now has a new playground and underling to bully... If it were something else, some neurotic reactivity on Carson's part, we should have been give some clue by now.

 

Carson's remarks about using house staff to provide services to his private married residence were ... cough... unlikely ... maybe he'd like to borrow some "good" China, crystal and silverware for his meals ... rather than feign abstinence, what an opportunity to borrow some of the better, if lesser, wines.

 

I was confused on that point.  At first I thought that he was asking Mrs. Hughes to get the house staff to do those chores, the bed corners, etc.  But then I figured he was directing her to ask the housemaid for advice on how to make the corners better, like he directed her to talk to Mrs. Patmore about how to cook his food.

 

Anyone have any idea what he meant there?

[RedHawk]

I thought he was suggesting that they hire a maid from the great house to come and "go over" their cottage once or twice a week. That's the only way it makes sense because the Abbey maids are usually so busy with their regular work that they never have time to sit and chat with the rest of the staff!

 

Perhaps Mrs. Hughes will tell her husband that no matter what he'd like to think, he is not an English lord, their cottage is neither a castle nor a converted abbey,  she has a JOB that is just as time-consuming and tiring as his is, and that they themselves have no "staff" to take care of their every need. Thus SHE is just as in need of rest and relaxation at the end of the day. So they can either move back to the Abbey and enjoy the many comforts there that their jobs entitle them to, or he can play with the pattypans by himself.

 

Now that I've written that, I wonder if they will compromise by moving back to the Abbey. Surely some accommodation could be made for them. Remember, the times are a'changin'!

Edited February 9, 2016 by RedHawk

[SusanSunflower]

I saw it as an extension of the lower classes sense of entitlement ... perhaps inspired by Andy's generous volunteering to learn pig farming to help out old old old Mr. Mason.... and Daisy's belief the Cora should heed her demand wrt Mr. Mason ... just more loathsome change, even to the previously impeccably stalwart Mr. Carson