Past Seasons Talk: 7 Seasons and Counting

[auntie thesis]

I am still unsure that Jill is the one courting. I think that maybe Jinger is courting and Jill was her chaperone or whatever, standing between her and Mystery Date in the photo that turned up on Tumblr this week....or maybe that's wishful thinking.

Didn't one of the Lost Girls blurt out something about Jill courting on their last tv appearance?

Any guesses on who Mystery Date is???

[i can't help it...I hear the jingle every time I type it lol.]

[Ivy26]

If Jill is also dating - oops, I mean courting - I wonder if they'd ever have a double wedding like the Bradys did.

That would be horrible.  But in Jim Boob's mind, ratings gold!

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

It was Jordyn, IIRC.

A double wedding might sound horrible now, but I'd love to share that awkwardness with someone. Especially since there would be two awkward first kisses going on. I do hope those boys don't try to eat their mouths off like TFDW (I think it was him?).

[floridamom]

I still can't understand why Daddy Dearest has approved a 19 year old kid to court Jessa, who is 22? If BennyBoy was 22 and Jessa 19, then I could see it. Why would JB marry off Jessa to a little boy? Also, just what is this "heart for the ministry" thing? Does Ben want to be an ordained Baptist Minister? If you notice, they don't ever go into specifics and explain what they say. They hide a lot under their skirts... or polo shirts if you ask me.

What would Queen Michelle do without head cook/housekeeper/babysitter Jana? That poor young lady has lost the spark in her eyes. I would bet that it's Michelle who "encouraged" her woooonderfulll husband, JB, not to approve any suitors for Jana at this time; because SHE needs Jana. How awful of a mother to do that to her own daughter.

Those girls each play a scripted role, IMO, Jana the quiet one, Jessa, the serious one, Jill the happy one, and Jinger the expressive artist. In reality, they can't pursue any of their aspirations. Why would they? Once they are married, they'll start pregnancy testing the day after the wedding and so long career!!!! It's a waste of time for them.

TLC really needs to get real and show this family for what they really are. The Duggars proclaim to be Christians, truthful and Godly, so they should come clean about the origins of their lifestyle and child "trainin' up". Thanks, hopefully, I sent this correctly, as I'm techno-challenged....but still trying...

[MrMattyMatt]

With that said, I'd love to know how many viewers of this show tune in because they really "like" this family or because they know they are bat-shit crazy.

[floridamom]

Hey there! Love reading the points of view brought up here. I watch because I can't believe how nuts these people are and think we should be all like them.

One of the overlooked Jslaves, is Grandma Duggar. I can't believe for one minute that this lady would have aspired to still be washing her son's dirty underwear, never mind her daughter-in-law's too and ALL the kids underpants. (Oops, was that NIKE?) As sexually active as JB and Michelle are and advertise to be, I wouldn't want to touch their underthings with a ten foot pole! Why would Mary Duggar want to? She should be interviewed about these things.

The Duggars proclaim to be very much in afterlife belief, and have now given "J'Caleb" an identity and of course, Jubilee one too, full blown funeral and all. I am in no way reducing the emotional suffering of miscarriage here, but they fail to include these two in their quiver. They have 21 children, 19 on earth and 2 in heaven. Why haven't they stopped "trying' for #20 when they already have reached and surpassed that number? They pull out those two from the drawer when it's convenient to advertise them They abuse the memory of those 2 children as much as they abuse the ones on earth...

 

This courting thing is a commitment for marriage for the guy before he's even out of the gate. I understand that once it begins, only the girl can call it off! So, a guy has to be ready with the ring and all before he asks her father for permission to know her. What is HE doesn't like so much what he finds in HER? Doesn't sound like a great deal for the guy at all. No wonder these girls don't have them breaking down the door; even with JB's money. I'm sure it's all his and the girls get nothing; after all, the guy has to pay her way through life forever..As a mother of sons, I'd never want my sons to be stuck like that. Any parent with sense in their heads wouldn't want it either. Nor, come to think of it, would parents of a daughter want her to be stuck with a dud or an abuser all of her life..

What is the dad approved groom turns out not to be the brightest bulb in the chandelier? It's possible that the wife could have stronger decision making skills in some areas instead of her husband? What does this wife have to do? Follow this idiot's stupid decisions? Pray to God for him to change his mind on his own?  This courting joke is nonsense. It didn't work 150 years ago and it doesn't work now. They are so black and white in everything. Either court in this antiquated way or you are a slut sleeping around with any pair of pants that comes along. They show their ignorance with this belief and believe that no one can live a good Godly life living differently than they do. Ok, I've spouted off enough here, so, so much to vent... thanks guys for reading all of this. I'll look forward to your comments now..

[Ivy26]

I completely agree with what was said above about GOP royalty.  Even the staunchest of the bunch would NOT allow a Duggar courtship.  They stumped for Santorum, but can you imagine a Duggar princess being allowed to marry a (gasp!) Catholic?!  Not gonna happen.  And the Cuccinelli family was probably too Eye-talian for their breeding stock. 

I tend to vote Conservative (more Libertarian, really), and I can't see anyone here in batshit AZ rooting for these people.  They'd get a firm 'thanks but no thanks'.  Smart conservatives know their limits.  Did the Duggars support Romney? I don't remember

[Fostersmom]

I will give them credit for this, they managed to keep Jill's courtship under wraps for a long (in their world) time. I suspect they would have kept Jessa's a secret too if creepy Ben's aunt hadn't posted about it on his Facebook page. Compare this to Kelly Bates who blogged about her last 2 daughters entering courtships the very next day. I don't even think the one daughter had returned home yet when Kelly announced it. This seemed really crass to me, especially given the Bates boy had a cancelled courtship (or was it engagement?). Sure, it was probably all about keeping it quiet for TV, but still it did give them a little bit of privacy for at least Jill. 

[Lillybee]

When Jill does marry, Jenny will lose her Dill, the only mother she ever had.

[Marigny]

I agree with other posters who've said these folks would never in a million years land a guy from the conservative jackpot. I went to private schools with kids who's parents were conservative politicians and they wouldn't give the Duggars the time of day unless they were writing them a check or giving them some free publicity. They would be considered trailer trash. Credentials and breeding are everything to this folks. You know those political spouses who look like Stepford Wives and say at home with the kids? Most of them came from money and have multiple degrees. Could you imagine one of Boob's kids being able to hold a conversation with a dignitary?

With what I've read about Jill's boyfriend, she actually might have a semi-normal life. The guy actually had a college experience, has seen the world, has a real job and is a fan of many popular tv shows. She might be drinking the Kool-aid now but perceptions change when you're exposed to new things.

Nothing and no one can convince me that Ben (and his father) isn't an opportunist. 1.) His family lives 200 miles away from Boob & Co. but they just happened to show up at church at their house one night. Convenient, isn't it?; 2.) He set up a fan page. A fecking FAN PAGE! 3.) He showed just how clueless he is when JD asked, "So, you think you'll be able to support my sister by fixing windshields?"

My honest opinion is that pops saw an opportunity to capitalize and to have a platform for their pro-life crusade, introduced themselves by showing up at church, and took it from there. What 18 year old, hot in the pants boy wouldn't jump at dating a "hot celebrity"?Attaching himself to her gives him a little bit of celebrity status, hence the "fan" page. All of this attention is the ultimate ego stroke for him. I think Pops is the mastermind and Ben's mom is the typical submissive.  

[2BigDogs]

They are just so doltish.  They don't seem to discuss anything that isn't physically present.  Their lives and minds are so small.  Augh.  I stumbled on this show tonight for the first time in years and I still want to smack Jim Bob's smug face.  

[MMLEsq]

When Jill does marry, Jenny will lose her Dill, the only mother she ever had.

Maybe that's why Jenny was so adamant about never wanting to get married.  Maybe it's wishful thinking (re: Jill) on her part.

[Gweilo]

If both Jill and Jessa get married, I feel like there's going to be a huge discrepancy between the girls.

Jill may get to finish her education and work in some capacity as a midwife; they might be missionaries somewhere and really get to live out their faith by serving others.  I don't know if midwifery students learn about contraception, but she may have the knowledge to plan the size of her family.  I imagine Derick would be OK with that.  If he works as an accountant for long enough they may manage to save up enough money that if she says "Honey, for our 10 year anniversay, I'd love to go to Paris, it's been a lifetime dream" they could actually do it!

Meanwhile, Jessa could end up stuck at home in an isolated area with no opportunities for learning or getting a job.  Stuck with tasks like cooking and cleaning that she obviously doesn't enjoy.  Hoping that Ben will make enough money with his various jobs to support her and the kids.  Living out Ben's beliefs by posting anti-abortion stuff on the internet and attending rallies (I'm not attacking pro-lifers, just that it seems like such a...strident way to air your religion, rather than a compassionate one).  She might even come to resent Jill's lifestyle.  If she does wear the pants in that relationship, I hope she announces to Ben that they're moving to a larger city, she thinks he should work in x industry, and by the way she intends to go to college/get a job/take up a great hobby, and that he says yes!

I'm really interested in seeing how Jill's future works out.  I think she could turn out to be an admirable representative for her faith.

[bigskygirl]

JimBoob will try to have control over Ben and Jessa since he does seem to have some control over Mr. and Mrs. Smuggar.  Ben may be thinking TLC will be wanting to film his new life with Jessa for a long period of time.  Maybe he can get a fancy D.C. job like Joshie did using the Duggars family name, and the fact he might be marrying Ms. Smugs one day.

Edited April 3, 2014 by bigskygirl

[NewOrleansLady]

I just hope that one of the kids leave the compound and comes to his/her senses. I can see turning the stray Duggar story into a Dr. Phil episode, a book deal and of course, a Lifetime movie.

[Ivy26]

I fantasize about driving a passenger van to one of their events and yelling "If you're over 18 and want freedom, GET IN!"  I'll come back later as the others age...

[ramble]

I wonder if anyone would have the nerve to jump in or if they are all victims of Stockholm Syndrome & can't leave their captors. 

[daisycat]

I have a friend who says she doesn't have an issue with the Duggars in general, just that it seems awfully greedy to her for them to have 19 kids. Heh.

[Jenniferbug]

I know most people want to rescue the girls (old and young), but these days I find myself dwelling on the wasted potential of the Howlers instead. I would love to adopt Josiah, Jed, and Jer and let them pursue what they're interested in (accounting, arts, etc). And if I'm taking them, then I might as well snag Jason and Justin (who seem to be forgotten a lot) and then James is right between them...Jackson can stay with the Duggars. His whole shtick is annoying. 

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

Honestly, I'll  take any one (or all) of the Duggar kids. Some of them are older than myself, but I feel like I have far more experience with pretty much anything. I'll help them with whatever they need me to. Hell, I'd even let Smuggar and Anna tag along. (I'm one of the few that actually likes Anna.)

I just feel so bad for all 19 of the kids. It wasn't their fault they weren't able to do so many things.

I also just watched the Duggar Flea Market episode for the first time. I thought it was odd that they were selling outdoor toys that I'm sure the little ones would enjoy, but then I remembered people over at TWop a few months ago mentioned that the kids don't play outside anymore. How sad.

[Jenniferbug]

True, SpaghettiTuesday, I would take any and all of them as well. I just see so much focus on the girls escaping (and with good reason) that it got me thinking about those middle boys. 

I'm also one of the few who likes Anna. I also have a fondness for John David, which seems rare.

[floridamom]

Hey, why don't the kids play outside anymore?

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

Hey, why don't the kids play outside anymore?

IIRC, someone at TWoP said something about paparazzi? I think it may have had something to do with controlling the kids as well. But honestly, they're not controlled indoors either. They just use all of their energy to act out and destroy things and eat processed cheese slices.

[floridamom]

Maybe I missed something here. We know Jana loved music, and now must patrol Jill as doula, Jill likes midwifery and Jinger likes photography. but what does Jessa like? If she isn't "too into" housewife work and cooking, what does she do other than pack for the family? She doesn't seem like the type underneath it all who would want to do those mundane things, and lose her figure popping baby after baby out. Ben is a nervous/scared kid, so why would he be pursuing anyone in a courtship at this time in his life? I feel bad for him as he has been somewhat of a hostage by his parents too while growing up, which, he isn't done yet with either.. I'm sure JB will step in and set them up with a pre fab house on his property. What kind of "leave and cleave" is that?

At least old Joshy tried to act grown up when pursuing Anna. He had a business that was dad's, I think, and a house that is Grandma's to live in and I can't see Joshy paying rent to dear old Granny. This poor boy needs to run and run far from being pressured into this ridiculuous situation. Does anyone else notice how nervous he is? They are emotional opposites, and they don't attract when married; they clash.. Jessa is cold and insensitive and he is eager to please...He'ss be yelping at her heels for years to come.

Once again, what interests does Jessa have? I think she'll be bored to death stuck at home with no money. She is the one who needs the "big bucks guy" to keep her in WalMart curling irons. Can't say that I like her very much. My heart goes out to Jana and Jinger. They would be far more deserving of a really nice guy to swoop them out of there. I hope Jana marries "mega money" and has a housekeeper; she surely has earned one.

[Mullet]

Hi- I am so happy this is here so the delicious snark can continue. Reading posts about the pesky Duggar clan has been my secret vice. I found I would race to TWOP to get the scoop on what we just saw. The funny thing is, most people I know think they are a lovely family so I clearly don't have anyone to rag on them with. I would have gone through snark withdrawal without this new place to read and vent.

[cmccasandra]

Jessa doesn't even look happy to me.  She seems to be just going with the flow, just because she has to.  Jill seems, from the previews, quite happy with her man.  I think that will be a good fit. I love the fact that her man has a degree from a real school and works for a company.  Maybe Boob approves of Wal-mart since Fayetteville is where the headquarter is.

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

Is it weird I can't imagine the J'Slaves as mothers? I don't know why. I guess because I still see them as the little girls we started out watching. (Doesn't help with their mental/emotional maturity.)

[Ivy26]

Is it weird I can't imagine the J'Slaves as mothers? I don't know why. I guess because I still see them as the little girls we started out watching. (Doesn't help with their mental/emotional maturity.)

Not at all.  My humble two cents, I don't want to see them as mothers right away.  They've been raising their siblings and running the house for years.  They need a break.  Can you imagine coming home from the honeymoon?  The absolute quiet and privacy?  The ability to cook on a tiny scale and just sit with their feet up and daydream?  They are in dire need of that

(Keep in mind, I am not saying SAHMs or wives do nothing all day.  What I'm saying is compared to a house of 21 people down to TWO is a world of difference) 

[catmsw]

Is it weird I can't imagine the J'Slaves as mothers? I don't know why. I guess because I still see them as the little girls we started out watching. (Doesn't help with their mental/emotional maturity.)

They've been mothers the entire series.

[AmericanAmigo]

People I know think that are so lovely too and a wonderful example. And these people vote...

[Chris Knight]

I think the new gates are due to paparazzi but I think the kids staying indoors is because of the lack of sister moms. It cannot be too hot there year round.

[Chris Knight]

I agree, I think the best times of their lives will be btwn wedding and babies. After being a workhorse for so long, imagine all the free time they will have ! Also, too bad the Howlers couldnt one day work at Walmart hq. But I think they are supposed to be self-employed whenever possible according to Gothard.

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

They've been mothers the entire series.

I disagree with you there. I think they've taken care of children the entire series, but not much in terms of mothering. They give hugs and kisses, put them to bed, and feed them, but I think a little more goes into it there. They don't have a good role model of how to be a mother. Not saying that they couldn't learn, but raising a child (however poorly you've been educated on it) and mothering are two different things, IMO.

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

Mullet claimed that it is usually too hot.

Ah, yes I remember that. Or too cold. Or too windy.

Honestly, my mom locked all of us kids outside when we were kids. Many of the ones that would like to play outside are old enough to do it without supervision. I don't understand why JChelle doesn't do that. Or maybe because the older girls aren't out there to watch everyone's countenance.

[glowlights]

I agree, I think the best times of their lives will be btwn wedding and babies. After being a workhorse for so long, imagine all the free time they will have ! Also, too bad the Howlers couldnt one day work at Walmart hq. But I think they are supposed to be self-employed whenever possible according to Gothard.

Yes, Gothardite men are supposed to be self-employed. Maybe that's so they don't end up working for a boss or company whose values aren't godly enough. Although Walmart might be something Jim Bob would allow the Howlers to work at. Special employee discount on styrofoam plates, dontcha know.  

[Rhondinella]

Do they have Chick-Fil-A in Arkansas?  That would probably get the Duggar seal of approval too.

[Absolom]

Oh yes, plenty of Chick-Fil-A "restaurants" in Arkansas.

[all4mom]

I would actually DVR their first episodes, if only they would rerun them.  Used to admire their thrift, as I'm very much into voluntary simplicity and frugality myself.  I hope to achieve financial independence and have great respect for anyone who does (and it's okay to use a pizza parlor's own rules against them, hee).  I think Josie's cute.  Am I going to be the iconoclast here?  It's a dirty job, but...

[AmericanAmigo]

They just need more choices. The Duggar children are human beings not props on a set.

[Absolom]

I thought the Duggars were a little peculiar, but OK when the first specials came out and even part way through the first season. I can't go along with restricting the adults and treating them like children and not only not encouraging education but actively discouraging it.  That isn't to say there aren't a few things to learn from the Duggars, but over the many seasons I've learned more things not to do than things to do.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

 

I thought the Duggars were a little peculiar, but OK when the first specials came out and even part way through the first season. I can't go along with restricting the adults and treating them like children and not only not encouraging education but actively discouraging it

I originally enjoyed 19K&C. Then I did some reading about Gothard and in particular blanket training. That flipped me out - and I started to notice the creepy Stepfordness during the show. My big big beef, as a conservative Christian who homeschooled two kids is that these kids never get a chance to go out into the world and witness - it's like their parents are continuously up their collective butts with the mixed message that a) their faith is the most important thing in their lives and b) their parents don't trust them to just grown into their own lives. If Gothardism was so wonderful, then the kids should just continue on with their faith when they grow up. They wouldn't need to be supervised constantly. I've known many families with large numbers of children and while it's nice that the older kids get to be the younger kids' "buddies", they need to experience young adult life. They are not mini adults or slaves. 

Oh and used shoes just grosses me out. I don't care how new they are. I might hand down a gently used pair from an older sibling to a younger, but bleah, who wants somebody's old nasty sweaty insoles that you don't know. 

[ghoulina]

Too hot to play outside? Please. Unless it's over 100, they should be out there every day. Just have plenty of water at the ready. Those kids NEED to be outdoors. They need to be playing and exploring and learning. So much learning is done through play, especially the kind of stuff they could get into outdoors. It makes me sad to think of them cooped up indoors all day. If their property is gated, they don't even really need that much adult supervision. I guess it depends on the ages of the kids and how it's set up. But Michelle doesn't work. Surely she can plop her ass on a lawn chair and let her kids run around outside for an hour. Shit, if I had all that land, I'd never be indoors. I just so envious thinking of all the gardening they could do! And they sit there eating canned foods instead. 

[Chris Knight]

Agree Matt. I had a hard time understanding Joy as well. She mumbles. Except for when she said "Instantly obey !" <shudder>

[texplant]

I see two of the Duggar girls are dating and according to the MSN homepage one of them just got engaged.  Isn't there an older sister and why aren't they marrying her off before her little sisters?

[wanderwoman]

How many here remember your first time falling in love?  No matter how old you were, your first time falling in love felt magical and you KNEW that the person was the one.  RIGHT?  And, then somewhere along the way, you realized that that person wasn't quite your cup of tea.  But, you moved on, learned about yourself and maybe a bit about others, and hopefully you applied that experience to the next time.  So, here's Jill.  She is "in love" and she has a choice.  Make a huge commitment to court with the purpose of moving toward marriage or not have a relationship at all.  She doesn't have the time or opportunity to see what this guy is like when it's just the two of them or when the cameras are off.  Same for Jessa.  It's all well-and-good too seriously e what he's like around your family, but there's no way to know the one on one!  

I just don't think it is healthy to have such high stakes.  If you truly believed that you brought your kids up with high morals and standards, and your parents vetted the young man ahead of time, then why not go out alone and see what happens?  Why not hold hands, front hug, and kiss?  These people have extended the concept of purity to an unnecessary level because they are afraid that sexual urges will leave them defenseless if left to their own devices.  Wtf-ness? 

[Absolom]

Zach (the Bates' son with the broken courtship) married Whitney (met at Sonic!) in December and they are expecting.

[Marigny]

I originally enjoyed 19K&C. Then I did some reading about Gothard and in particular blanket training. That flipped me out - and I started to notice the creepy Stepfordness during the show. My big big beef, as a conservative Christian who homeschooled two kids is that these kids never get a chance to go out into the world and witness - it's like their parents are continuously up their collective butts with the mixed message that a) their faith is the most important thing in their lives and b) their parents don't trust them to just grown into their own lives. If Gothardism was so wonderful, then the kids should just continue on with their faith when they grow up. They wouldn't need to be supervised constantly. I've known many families with large numbers of children and while it's nice that the older kids get to be the younger kids' "buddies", they need to experience young adult life. They are not mini adults or slaves. 

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that the one kid that was given the opportunity to go out on her own and witness (Jill) is the one that seems to have a real sense of who she is and what her place is in this world. Whenever she speaks of the future, it's about going somewhere to be of service to others. The others don't speak of anything beyond getting married and having babies. 

[NeonJungle]

I wonder what they think of the recent scandals surrounding Doug Phillips of "Vision Forum" (Michelle spoke at one of his conferences) and Bill Gothard. The show has turned down some of the references to Gothard in later years, but think Jana, Jill and Ginger (maybe Jessa also) used to go to the conferences they'd host and the whole family would load up the bus to go to Big Sandy, TX for conferences. Didn't one of the older girls intern or work at ATI headquarters in Indiana? Which, incidentally, is where another conservative minister with the IFB, Jack Schaap, was sentenced to 12 years after a similarly monikered "inappropriate relationship."

[Marigny]

I wonder what they think of the recent scandals surrounding Doug Phillips of "Vision Forum" (Michelle spoke at one of his conferences) and Bill Gothard. The show has turned down some of the references to Gothard in later years, but think Jana, Jill and Ginger (maybe Jessa also) used to go to the conferences they'd host and the whole family would load up the bus to go to Big Sandy, TX for conferences. Didn't one of the older girls intern or work at ATI headquarters in Indiana? Which, incidentally, is where another conservative minister with the IFB, Jack Schaap, was sentenced to 12 years after a similarly monikered "inappropriate relationship."

Looks like Boob, Mullett, Jinger and even Gothard are on the menu for the upcoming Big Sandy meeting. 

 

http://iblp.org/sites/iblp.org/files/sample_conference_schedule.pdf

[mbutterfly]

Gothard has some interesting topics given his recent troubles -- all about sin and anger and the hidden dangers of higher education.