S02.E10: Potential Energy

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Now that they've grown closer, Barry considers telling Patty that he is The Flash. Meanwhile, Joe and Iris try to get to know Wally, and the team hunts down a meta-human who can slow time itself.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viRp9UfFlYU

[bettername2come]

That was better than I thought it was going to be. Really liked Patty in the episode, although I'm not sad to see her go. I really liked her breakdown when the Flash rescued her. Turtle was a surprisingly effective villain.

Cisco yelling at Harry like a bad dog when he trashed Cisco's stuff amused me greatly.

Who's the nerdy writer who put in Don Quixote and Moby Dick references?

[Lantern7]

Quick question . . . is Wally that big of a punk in the comics? I mean the "New52," not the old canon.

 

Why do I feel like Barry is going to tell the next girlfriend about his alter ego? The one time he doesn't do that, Patty winds up leaving. That's going to haunt him. Well, it'll be a distant second to the Zoom-tinged nightmares. Poor bastard.

 

Good to have the show back, though it feels like an appetizer to the main course that is Legends Of Tomorrow. And I figure that "Turtle" would be a nice nemesis for Flash after the likes of Reverse Flash and Zoom. Here's hoping Harry didn't lobotomize him.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Quick thoughts about the episode........

 

-  No more Patty & Batty, woo-hoo!  (glad she wasn't killed, so won't have a lot of episodes and time spent on a bunch of over angsty manpain from Barry)

 

-  If only we could get no more Caitlin/Jay now.  Cripes, its actually eclipsed the Batty in terms of cringe-inducing each time its come up.  "You know I spent a long time getting over my dead husband".  Oh really, Caitlin; did you have your own "turtle time" abilities to make it seem longer than it actually was??

 

-  Iris fulfilled her seasonal contract quota again tonight... only there to provide relationship support and advice.

 

-  Overdoing the family drama with Wally, and lots more to come.  CW-tropers must be in Heaven.

 

-  Jay is dying because his missing speed force.  Doesn't make a lot of sense, but I guess he needs a drama-filled storyline of some sort.

 

-  Guessing that Wells be using 'Turtle's blood/DNA to try and either use it to help or hurt Zoom.

 

-  Shouldn't really be happy to see RF [& Gideon] again, but looking forward to it all the same.

Edited January 20, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[ottoDbusdriver]

Nooooooo !!!  Aaron Douglas is playing another bad guy.  Not the Chief (he will always be the Chief from BSG to me).

 

I wonder if RF is now a good guy -- I mean, he didn't cackle maniaclly when he took his cowl off.

Who's the nerdy writer who put in Don Quixote and Moby Dick references?

 

Wasn't there a Khan from Star Trek 2 reference in there as well ?

Edited January 20, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[AlliMo]

I liked Patty, but I'll admit I like the show better when it's not entangled in romantic drama.

 

I'm happy anytime I see The Chief in anything.

[catrice2]

Oh my. This was once must see tv for me, and tonight I could barely stay awake.  I'm sure Patty will be popping up again.  So strange to see Iris encouraging Barry t tell Patty....and I could care less about Wally....

[TV Anonymous]

So Barry was sleeping with Patty? Did they have sex? How about his involuntary bodily functions? Would they not be... fast?

 

On a serious note, if Turtle absorbed energy, how did the chandelier drop faster than the Flash running?

[phoenics]

I was thrown a bit when Caitlin (unethically) discovers that Jay is sick and then makes his terminal illness all about her.

So glad that Patty is exiting stage left - Batty felt forced.

WHERE did Patty pull that gun from when she was wearing the gold dress?

Using Iris to propel Batty, etc., --> ugh. Still we get Patty's PoV but never Iris'. I'm getting sick of that.

Enjoyed the heart to heart Iris and Barry had though - but still - and why was Barry blaming Iris for Iris doing the right thing and telling Patty (who came to her) to just talk to Barry. I don't understand Barry's reaction. If he would have just been honest with Patty, she wouldn't have gone to on outside person for help with him.

And - I don't think Barry really believed Patty was "it" for him - or else he would have told her when the chips were down. I don't even think that he was really going to tell her when she abruptly broke up with him... and even after she did that - he just stood there and still didn't tell her. If he was really serious about her, he would have told her. Something held him back.

The best part of the episode was honestly Cisco's scream at RF in the promo for next week.

[Lady Calypso]

I guess I liked the episode, but it definitely had some issues.

 

My first issue is kind of minor, because I know it was used for laughs, but the whole Cisco/Turtle business. So, the Turtle has been stealing stuff and Cisco mentioned it to everyone but Barry? And he didn't think about Turtle being useful, for either RF or Zoom, until now? It's not a huge deal, but I guess it bothered me more than it should have. 

 

Jay and Cailtin, as usual. Caitlin....you went from being in complete mourning in the premiere to throwing yourself at Jay the very next episode. Stop lying. It seems like if the females aren't in a romantic relationship, they're forgotten about, which is weird because even Caitlin had somewhat of a use last season before Ronnie reappeared. And if you're Iris...well, you're out of luck. But I'm pretty sure Jay will be gone by the end of the season. I just would rather he was gone. Like, now. 

 

Ok, onto the good things, which was really the rest of it. I really actually liked Patty this episode. She was toned down and I enjoyed her presence. 

 

Seeing a little bit more Barry/Iris was nice; honestly, seeing so little of Iris/Barry for most of the season, having a couple of scenes the last few episodes has been nice. And it's been Iris and Barry both being there for each other, so that's good. I just want more of Iris. And I'm happy we've had less of Joe scenes, but the Wally storyline is STILL 90% about Joe, which annoys me. 

 

But yeah, Patty's gone for now, but there's still an opening for her to come back and stuff. I guess I'm ok with that; I'm just glad she isn't dead, though I do wish she would have found out and that's why she broke up with him. It just goes to show how he wasn't that serious about her after all. 

 

So...Wally's part of the Fast and the Furious now? Really? Is he like this in the comics? Because if not, contrived drama and...very, very, very lame. And stereotypical. 

 

Harry and Cisco still crack me up, but I really do want more Caitlin/Harry and hell, why not Harry/Iris? 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Lady Calypso

[Ruby25]

So Barry was sleeping with Patty? Did they have sex? How about his involuntary bodily functions? Would they not be... fast?

 

With the anticlimactic way that relationship was dispensed with in this episode, no one's ever going to convince me otherwise that the only reason Patty existed on this show at all this season was so they could finally indicate that Barry's not a virgin (anymore).

 

Seriously, I don't know why that storyline even existed. WAY too much boring B/P drama in this ep.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Ruby25

[blugirlami21]

I'm so glad that Batty is over. For now at least. I still don't understand her purpose on the show. Her presence changed nothing. Especially if Barry and Iris are still going to get together. Iris already knows his secret. It would have been nice for them to acknowledge that he was in love with Iris a couple of months ago.

I love Caitlin but her grief over her husband has been nonexistent and I don't like the show trying to act like she mourned for more than five minutes.

I don't understand why Wally is so angry. Did I miss the part where Joe was in his life all along and abandoned him during his childhood? He didn't know about you. You came to his house. You decided to accept him into your life. You don't get to be angry.

Cisco's scream was hilarious.

[phoenics]

I don't understand why Wally is so angry. Did I miss the part where Joe was in his life all along and abandoned him during his childhood? He didn't know about you. You came to his house. You decided to accept him into your life. You don't get to be angry.

I can't agree with this. While it seems unfair for Wally to be angry with Joe, I think because Francine is dying, he can't really be mad at her, so Joe's just a convenient target. He still feels abandoned by Joe, even if Joe didn't know. I think the anger Wally feels is legitimate, it's just misdirected.

But I hope he doesn't become as annoying as Sleepy Hollow's Henry was about Ichabod, when Ichabod had no clue he existed.

[blugirlami21]

I somewhat agree and I don't at the same time. Wally is allowed to feel whatever he wants, misguided as it is but no one knows him well enough, characters or audience to just accept him being snotty just because he's angry.

I would admonish Barry or Iris if they did the same. In fact I'm pretty sure I have in the past but ymmv.

Sleepy Hollow's Henry didn't get a pass from me either.

Edited January 20, 2016 by blugirlami21

[Ruby25]

Yeah, the introduction of Wally as immediately rude is risky, since no one's going to warm to him right away if he has a bad attitude against characters we like (Joe).

 

On the other hand, I think the actor has potential- if they let him be nice and friendly, I have a feeling he could be very likable, since to me he has one of those sweet, puppy dog faces. They might be pushing the wrong angle with him.

[phoenics]

I think Wally West is supposed to eventually be straddling the line between smart ass and decent guy (that's the core of Wally West), so I actually think the direction they are taking him makes sense. He's got a ton on his shoulders so I understand why he's angry. Honestly - he's made one or two snippy comments and told Joe the "man of the house" role is filled. That's hardly bad - that's like Seventh Heaven level bad, lol.

I just wish fans would give a character time to grow into his/her own on the show before all of the judgment comes raining down. I loved Wally's snark - honestly SOMEONE should be mad at Joe for something. Iris wasn't even angry that he lied to her for 20+ years.

Maybe that's why I enjoyed Wally's snark. I felt like Joe should have had it coming from Iris, lol.

I am glad Wally has some edge to him - bringing him on and having an insta-family would be ridiculously contrived.

[Maverick]

 Yeah, Wally's a total prick.  And if he hates Joe so much, why did he show up for Christmas?  I assumed everyone had awkward but pleasant conversation, but apparently he just sat around and glowered at everyone.  And if he blames Joe for not finding him (even though he didn't even know he existed) what the bug up his butt about Iris?  You can't have a conversation with your sister that was lied to same as you?

 

 I didn't understand why the Turtle had to be someone Cisco was aware of.  He tells Barry add 5 seconds later the White Whale turns into a confirmed threat.  Lame, even for a comic book show.  

 

 Bye, Patty.  I hope Professor Obvious teaches you a few things in advanced forensics...like how to recognize the guy you're sleeping with when he literally pressed up against you.

 

 The most interesting part of the episode was Cisco's scream in the previews.  I hope its not the most interesting part of that episode too.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Yeah, the introduction of Wally as immediately rude is risky, since no one's going to warm to him right away if he has a bad attitude against characters we like (Joe).

 

Didn't Wally make some stupid comment along the lines of "you were never there for me, Dad !!" and something like what a crappy cop he was that he couldn't track down his son.  Umm, Joe didn't even know of your existence Wally, why would he be searching for a non-existent child.  WTF ?  I thought those were particularly dick moves by Wally.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I'm not taking sides, but to see it a bit from Wally's POV... I don't know if he knew Joe was his dad or not, but obviously knew he had one.  His mom is dying and he's boosting cars won in street races to pay her medical bills.  Also guessing that his growing up was not as 'wholesome' as Iris' was.  And now here comes "Dad" and "sis" swooping in to try and be an 'insta'family.  Not exactly difficult to see why he would be upset about the circumstances.

 

Is he being a bit too much a jerk?  Yeah, probably.  But he's a kid.  How many kids are mature enough to look at situations and realize everything is tough for all involved, and not just them?  He gets a pass from me - for now - but if it keeps going too long, then yes, it will shine an unfavorable light on the character.

Edited January 20, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Lantern7]

So Barry was sleeping with Patty? Did they have sex? How about his involuntary bodily functions? Would they not be... fast?

 

Forgot about that. "Barry, I feel you're not being totally honest with me. For instance . . . this burning sensation I keep feeling and the smell of burning meat. You know something I don't, right?"

[phoenics]

Maybe Francine wasn't honest with Wally about what happened? But didn't Joe just kinda give up on finding Francine? I could see a kid not being able to really understand that too. Who knows what kind of hardships and trials Francine and Wally had. And Francine was wrong, but she was THERE. Kinda how Iris forgave Joe for lying all of those years, but hated on Francine and never gave her a chance. And now Wally is furious at Joe (although he seemed to get over it by the end of the episode), but is fine with Francine.

[statsgirl]

I am so over the father/son dynamics that keep taking over this show.  Barry and his three fathers, and now Wally has already had more father/child dynamic time than Iris has had with Joe.  I don't care why Wally is angry, stop taking it out on the guy who wants to be your father at last.

 

Is that it for Patty?  I'll miss her, she was 1/3 of the characters I care about enough to watch the show for.

 

But what really annoyed me is that it was such a lame-ass way of writing her off. Really?  You're not even going to give a heads-up about this with the guy you're in a relationship with, much less discuss it with him?  Did AK get bored with the character?

 

The more I see of Iris and Barry interacting, the less I want them to be in a relationship with each other so that's another reason for wishing Patty had stayed.

[thuganomics85]

So, Wally isn't quite down with Joe's instant dad attempts, after-all.  Also, he's apparently a street racer.  I kept waiting for Dom and the rest of the Fast and the Furious gang to show up (lets be honest, I'm pretty sure all of them are metahumans, considering the shit they pull off in those films.  Especially Hobbs.)  I guess I can see why Wally feels this way, even if Joe really didn't know about them.  That said, had I not known the comic canon, I would have totally thought they were setting him up to be a future villain.  The long lost son who resents that Barry and Iris had what he didn't.  I'd like to think they are going to deviate that far off.

 

Patty has enough of Barry's secrets and leaves.  I'm guessing she'll be back, but this was pretty much a waste.  I don't think anything came out of this.  This relationship hasn't given Barry any growth as a character, and Patty never moved past a failed love interest, who is probably just a roadblock for Barry and Iris to happen.  What was the point of it?

 

Cisco and Harry continue to crack me up.

 

On the other hand, Caitlin and Jay continue to bug, especially when Caitlin somehow makes his sickness all about her.  Then again, I'm surprised she even remembers Ronnie, considering how quickly she seemed to forget him.

 

The Turtle was underwhelming.  Then again, I wouldn't want to be the villain who followed an episode that had both Captain Cold and The Trickster.

 

Eobard Thawne is back!  Or is he actually going to be another version of Eobard?

[Chicago Redshirt]

 

Wasn't there a Khan from Star Trek 2 reference in there as well ?

Khan was quoting Ahab from Moby Dick when he said, "From hell's heart, I stab at thee...for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee."

 

So Barry was sleeping with Patty? Did they have sex? How about his involuntary bodily functions? Would they not be... fast?

 

On a serious note, if Turtle absorbed energy, how did the chandelier drop faster than the Flash running?

 

Sleeping in the same bed and "getting close" is Hollywood code for doing the dirty deed.

 

I figure that Turtle can focus where he is stealing energy from and he focused on stealing energy from Flash more than the chandelier.

 

I guess I liked the episode, but it definitely had some issues.

 

My first issue is kind of minor, because I know it was used for laughs, but the whole Cisco/Turtle business. So, the Turtle has been stealing stuff and Cisco mentioned it to everyone but Barry? And he didn't think about Turtle being useful, for either RF or Zoom, until now? It's not a huge deal, but I guess it bothered me more than it should have. 

 

 

I'm able to buy that he didn't have confirmation that the Turtle existed, so he didn't think of the Turtle as a potential solution until now. And he doesn't tell Barry probably about half his crazy theories.

[quarks]

Meh episode.

 

Good things:

 

1. The Turtle was both effectively creepy and effective. Decent villain of the week there.

 

2. The Harry and Cisco scenes.

 

3. The geeky references - bonus for getting a twofer on that Moby Dick/Wrath of Khan one.

 

4. Pretty much everyone in formal wear looked great in it. Since Arrow seems to have backed away from frequent formal events, it was fun to see that come out again.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Yay, the Reverse Flash is back only he looks completely different and I'm sure that having a Flash, a not-really-still-a-Flash, a-maybe-possibly-will-be-Flash-when-not-doing-drag-races Flash, a Reverse Flash and a different Harrison Wells is not going to be at all confusing or repetitive. Right? Right.

 

2. Ok, yes, I get that the Turtle is not exactly the most sane guy around and he just kidnapped Patty and he robs people, but since he's also the first effective weapon Team Flash has had against Zoom, maybe - just maybe - at least some attempt should be made to talk to the guy given that the show keeps telling me that Zoom is like the worst threat ever and everyone needs to unite resources against him?

 

3. How did Patty not put it all together by the end of the episode? She's supposed to be a trained, intelligent cop, right? The Turtle pretty much drew her a map. I suppose it's possible that she did, and that's exactly why she left, since she was hurt that Barry didn't tell her, but that's reading a lot into the script.

 

4. Barry, it's not Iris' fault that you decided to lie to your girlfriend, and put Iris in the very uncomfortable position of having to lie to her as well.

 

5. And while I'm on this subject, why exactly is Barry listening to Harry's advice instead of Iris' advice?  Who's the one who had a successful, stable relationship despite growing up in a broken home, and who's the one obsessed over Zoom? That's what I thought.

 

6. I'm not finding the Wally/Joe stuff at all compelling, but I am happy that someone is jumping on Joe for maybe not being the greatest father around.

 

7. I did have to laugh when Barry was trying to say that he doesn't trust that many people with his big secret.  Well, maybe 30 or more people isn't that many to you, Barry.

 

Bad things:

 

1. Arrow, Flash, I am on my knees begging here. PLEASE DO A BETTER JOB OF REDRESSING YOUR SETS. I caught two sets from this season of Arrow, one from earlier on Flash, and while I'd like to say it's lovely to see that same outdoor location with the same fence and the same cars AGAIN, especially after that lovely moment last year when Flash and Arrow used it in back to back episodes, it's really not. You can do better, shows!  At least possibly consider shooting that location from a different camera angle since we seem to be at it about every five episodes or so?

 

2. So, in this week's episode of Flash, we had:

 

One woman there to provide relationship advice and then mostly get left out of a traumatic family situation. And then she didn't get any Chinese food. That was sad.

 

One woman who is supposedly a highly skilled doctor, but whose own boyfriend won't go to her for medical advice, and who is running around unethically collecting DNA samples from champagne filled beakers, and then telling her current boyfriend that it took her forever to get over her husband who died, in show time, about seven months ago.

 

One woman who got kidnapped and understandably left the show.

 

One woman preserved and locked in a cabinet.

 

Flash, your producers are doing (somewhat) better than this over on Arrow and (definitely) better than this over on Supergirl and Vixen. What is going on here?  Do better.

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, the introduction of Wally as immediately rude is risky, since no one's going to warm to him right away if he has a bad attitude against characters we like (Joe).

 

On the other hand, I think the actor has potential- if they let him be nice and friendly, I have a feeling he could be very likable, since to me he has one of those sweet, puppy dog faces. They might be pushing the wrong angle with him.

 

I think that it's risky too, but only because he seemed different in his very first appearance. He came to them, after all. He chose to contact them, and he looked like he was a sad, lost puppy who wanted family by him while his mom is sick.

 

Buuuuut then they go and do this. It was a much more interesting angle when he seemed like a nice, genuine kid who wanted his father and sister in his life. If Joe had gone to find him, then it's a different story. It just didn't work here, and I now get why shows either go one way or the other. It just makes better sense. I'm adopted, so it would be like me going to find my birth mom, and then acting like a complete bitch to her and demanding nothing to do with her. It's one thing to want closure; it's another to be acting like Wally did this episode. I'm going to hope that they explain, and write, Wally better. 

[Actionmage]

Like others have said, I was sooo glad to see Chief Tyrol! Then, I went 'aw' when it was revealed at how... unbalanced he was. I'm selfish in that I was to unreservedly root for Aaron Douglas when he's on my TV, but I understand: role =paycheque. Still? The end? Geezz. Yeah, nuthin' untoward goin' on in the Black Hole of Central City.

 

Patty left alive! Praise be. Yet? I agree with the posters who think Barry wasn't as serious as he thought. After "bugging" on her, post-chandelier fiasco, Barry could have - in best rom-com fashion- tried to explain to angry Patty that he was The Flash. Like in his nightmare, he just stood around, hands in his pockets, looking guilty or embarrassed or whatever, but not like a guy ready to be honest about the secretive stuff in his life. I mean, in the nightmare, I get it: you don't use your speed to save the woman you love. That's why it's a nightmare, yet that is what clued me in that it was a nightmare. The lack of reasonably using powers he has.  Either he's the guy who built Gideon or he isn't.

 

Cisco is made of win. The "If you ever need me to vibe for you..." scene was awesome! Cisco/Harry for hetero-life partners!

 

Caitlin? You are not exactly Jay's doctor. As awesome as the blue dress was, the line crossed by secret body slough use was not awesome. ( Really. I saw the dress and actually said "Damn!" out loud to no one.) Your "when  were you going to tell me?" just proved that Jay was right in not telling you. You can not be trusted to not cross lines when you feel entitled to the answers. You share smoochies with Jay, not a marital status.

 

Wally. I did love that he wasn't all in on 'Joe West, Greatest Detective', maybe not snark to the man's boss. ( ::waves to Capt. Singh::)  Other than that, yeah, both sides needed to figure out a regular "father/son" thing was not in the cards. Hopefully this  will be smoother going forward. Not that Wally has to be cool with everything the CC Wests do, just be cool with Iris, call Barry "The White Shadow" to his face now and again and be interesting. Being a gearhead could help Wally bond with Cisco. Possibly with Harry too, if they can fold a gearhead Wally into the 'Help Flash get back his speed" storyline. Wally's Man of the House speech was good. It was something Joe needed to hear and told us how Wally views he and Francine. Regardless of how he was raised, Wally has great love for Francine. Why else do you illegally street race in a place about half a country away? (Yeah, the no one else will race him excuse. If the racing culture was tight, wouldn't they do something to help Francine out, as the mom of one of their own? Some sort of exhibition to raise money?)

 

I am interested in how they plan on explaining which Thawne this is. Gideon called him Professor Thawne.

[VCRTracking]

 "Oh my god the Turtle's a Cylon!" was my reaction to seeing who he was. I love that everybody Barry knew about him.

 

I don't blame Wally for being angry at Joe. He probably doesn't know the whole story and his mom is sick.

 

As obstacles to the Westallen goes I liked Patty. Shame Barry took so long to tell her his secret and was too late. Well she at least looked HOT in that gown.

 

Chilling story about how Zoom got his name.

 

As one of the commenters on the Afterbuzz said Caitlin finds out Jay's dying and her first thought is that he didn't tell her?

[johntfs]

 

2. Ok, yes, I get that the Turtle is not exactly the most sane guy around and he just kidnapped Patty and he robs people, but since he's also the first effective weapon Team Flash has had against Zoom, maybe - just maybe - at least some attempt should be made to talk to the guy given that the show keeps telling me that Zoom is like the worst threat ever and everyone needs to unite resources against him?

 

He murdered his first wife and keeps her corpse in a glass case.  He deliberately steals things to emotionally harm their owners.  He planned to kill Patty and put her in another glass case.  The Turtle isn't Captain Cold or even Heat Wave.  He's a lunatic with superpowers.  I'm pretty well fine with the "use him as a lab rat" concept that Harrison has.

 

Of course, he now knows who Barry is and will certainly escape eventually.

[TwistedandBored]

This was a boring episode. They had a meh mid-season finale and meh mid-season premiere. I hope the rest of the episodes are better. 

[zannej]

I had to watch this online and the framerate was bad for some reason. I'm going to have to try to watch it again. I'm also still recovering from a car accident last week-- someone ran a red light going well above speed limit and took off the front end of my car and spun it around to face almost the opposite direction.

 

Anyway, I liked how Cisco scolded Harry for throwing things on the floor and Harry threw more stuff on the floor (for some reason, it reminded me of my cats). When Harry described what Zoom did to the cops on Earth 2, I was waiting for him to say that one of them was someone close to him-- he seemed to be quite upset about it. Of course, maybe he feels guilty since he created Zoom.

 

I also found it funny that Cisco said he thought Patty was "team flash material" because she shot King Shark and Harry-- when Harry was right there within earshot. I wish we'd seen Harry's reaction to it. When Harry told Barry not to tell Patty, it looked to me like Barry wasn't really planning to take his advice. Also, I imagine that he might figure that Harry just doesn't want Patty around since she shot him.

 

I felt like the scenes with Jay and Caitlin were just a waste of time. I wonder if Jay was ill before he got his speed powers and having the speedforce is what saved him or if it was the Velocity serum that made him sick. If he'd taken the Velocity serum before and it made him ill, that would explain why he was so dead set against it being given to Barry. I wonder if this will just remain some mystery illness or if they will say what it is.

 

There was a deleted scene in a previous episode where Barry was in his bedroom with Patty and they clearly referenced that they'd had sex. Patty said it was "nice." Obviously, it wasn't nice enough to make her want to stick around. If she didn't figure out that Barry was the Flash then she is a complete and total moron. I actually liked her better in this episode, except for her blindness to Barry being the Flash. But her decision to leave seemed way too sudden. Just like her intro-- it was too fast and forced. I'm pretty sure that if she declined an offer from four years ago, its probably not still open. I wish Barry had just whispered to her that he was the flash or told her that a thief was there. It was just painful to watch. I'm not sorry she's gone, but I didn't like the way they did it. It still beats her ending up in a refrigerator though.

 

I want to like Wally but between his attitude with Joe and the delivery of said attitude, its not easy for me to warm to him. His words were somewhat venomous, but I wasn't feeling it from his delivery and facial expressions. I can get it if he was mad that Joe kicked his wife out of his life and didn't want anything to do with her-- and if Wally felt that was unfair to her because he loves his mother-- but being angry at Joe for not knowing he existed (aside from the whole not ever checking up on his ex-wife thing) doesn't make much sense-- of course, emotions don't have to make sense. It could just be irrational frustration with the situation.

 

I was annoyed that the team didn't sit down and try to think of a way to negate Turtle's powers even temporarily. Maybe Cisco could have come up with a device to nullify it or at least take the Turtle out. And why is it that the Turtle was able to see Barry coming if Barry can run so fast? His motivations also didn't really make sense. I could see him wanting to get at specific people who caused him grief, but why try to make random strangers suffer?

 

Interesting that Wells was talking about his dark side and what he would do to someone if they hurt his little girl and then it looked like he was taking a brain sample from the Turtle via his nose. I wonder if Cisco will find the guy dead and wonder WTF happened-- although, don't they have cameras there? Since this Wells is not a medical doctor, I wonder what he thinks he will achieve with that sample. I guess it was meant as a sort of parallel to the Eobard/Wells. I wonder if Harry will do something to piss off Reverse Flash in the next episode. I am really hoping that both of them survive the season though.

 

Loved when Reverse Flash asked Gideon "Where the hell am I?" because it made me think of a road trip I took while using a Magellan GPS that responded to voice command. For some reason the "Where am I?" command wasn't working but I discovered "Where the hell am I?" worked.

 

Patty pulling a gun out of nowhere reminded me of the anime character Kodachi Kuno on Ranma 1/2 who would randomly pull a rose out of nowhere. Seriously, where was she hiding that thing?

 

Did I mention that Caitlin's obsession with Jay is just unhealthy and creepy?

 

Loved the bit with Cisco screaming in the promo.

[benteen]

I've seen some good reviews for this episode but I wasn't crazy about this one.  I just wasn't feeling it.

 

I agree that there was no growth for Barry with the Patty relationship.  This episode seemed to bring out the worst in him again.  Constantly lying, even after the first attempt on Patty's life, which was just plain inexplicable.  Not to mention deciding to invite his girlfriend to a place where he planned to catch a metahuman.  I get that they viewed the Turtle as not that dangerous but still...stupid and reckless.  Although Barry is the guy who was willingly to sacrifice the entire universe because he missed his mommy so this bit of sociopathic behavior is relatively minor in the general scheme of things.

 

Good lord, this show sucks when it comes to their female characters.  Patty couldn't figure out Barry's identity, even when it was spelled out for her.  She's a complete damsel in distress this episode and goes running off when the going gets tough.  I don't know why they bother with Caitlin anymore...she's a character defined completely by her relationships with men.  Generally, a main character will have a love interest whose only defined by their relationship to said main character.  With Caitlin, it's the other way around.  Iris gave good advice to Patty and Barry but that's all she contributed to this episode.  Marvel television shows does amazing work with their female characters and The Flash is an absolute embarrassment with what they do with their female characters in comparison.

 

I get why Wally is upset even if it is unfair.  But I assumed his Christmas went well if he was visiting Joe again.  So I've got no time for the attitude (though I can imagine how much of a pain in the ass "I want a son" Joe can be)

 

Nice to see Chief Tyrol again.

Edited January 20, 2016 by benteen

[phoenics]

Is that it for Patty?  I'll miss her, she was 1/3 of the characters I care about enough to watch the show for.

 

But what really annoyed me is that it was such a lame-ass way of writing her off. Really?  You're not even going to give a heads-up about this with the guy you're in a relationship with, much less discuss it with him?  Did AK get bored with the character?

SVS only signed on for 10 episodes - so ep 11 is her last. There's some promo with her on a train somewhere - so maybe there is more if it's not cut. Maybe she'll even find out Barry is the Flash.

But her exit is kinda almost as abrupt here as it is in canon - so not really surprised there. But I do think she has one more episode left.

 

The more I see of Iris and Barry interacting, the less I want them to be in a relationship with each other so that's another reason for wishing Patty had stayed.

Sorry Westallen couldn't sway you (I remember you've always struggled to warm to them). I'm loving their dynamic that we're finally seeing now. They've barely had scenes this season, so it's a treat to finally see them together in the same scene and having warm heart to hearts.

And zannej, I hope you're okay after your accident!

Edited January 20, 2016 by phoenics

[Primetimer]

Barry's speed is pitted against a slow and steady foe.

Read the story

[cynic]

You're dying? Why didn't you tell me? Don't you realize how much this is going to effect ME?!?

[hogwash]

Patty deserves an award for resisting the urge to smack that goofy grin off Barry's face. Jeez. Two times she stood there trying to have a serious conversation with him and he's not even pretending to listen or understand. The breakup was so open-ended. I'll be shocked if Patty doesn't come back eventually. 

 

Anyway, I liked some parts of this episode. The Turtle was interesting. He reminded me of the super creepy Dollmaker from Arrow. I like what they're doing with Wally West. I love how he is with Joe. I still hate Jay and Caitlin together. It's screwing up both their characters. Especially since neither of them seem to have anything else going on. Jay keeps whining about not having his speed while doing absolutely nothing to help or get it back.  Why did Caitlin come back to Star Labs??? She's barely doing anything. 

It has me hoping that E2 Caitlin is the one that comes back with everyone after their trip to Earth 2 cause wow.

[HunterHunted]

I think the problem with Wally is that he's only known a Francine who mostly had her shit together so he can't conceive of why Joe wouldn't look for her when she left. Joe and Wally knew two different Francines. Joe's was an unstable junkie who hurt his kid. Wally's was the devoted struggling mother.

[benteen]

Patty deserves an award for resisting the urge to smack that goofy grin off Barry's face. Jeez. Two times she stood there trying to have a serious conversation with him and he's not even pretending to listen or understand. The breakup was so open-ended. I'll be shocked if Patty doesn't come back eventually. 

 

Anyway, I liked some parts of this episode. The Turtle was interesting. He reminded me of the super creepy Dollmaker from Arrow. I like what they're doing with Wally West. I love how he is with Joe. I still hate Jay and Caitlin together. It's screwing up both their characters. Especially since neither of them seem to have anything else going on. Jay keeps whining about not having his speed while doing absolutely nothing to help or get it back.  Why did Caitlin come back to Star Labs??? She's barely doing anything. 

It has me hoping that E2 Caitlin is the one that comes back with everyone after their trip to Earth 2 cause wow.

 

Agreed on Iris.  Barry doesn't listen to anything and thinks he can hide behind that goofy, good guy persona of his.

[rogueprinzess]

I think the problem with Wally is that he's only known a Francine who mostly had her shit together so he can't conceive of why Joe wouldn't look for her when she left. Joe and Wally knew two different Francines. Joe's was an unstable junkie who hurt his kid. Wally's was the devoted struggling mother.

 

I agree with this. While the show hasn't addressed it yet, I think this is a believable assumption. Also as someone else mentioned upthread, Joe admitted in his confession to Iris that he didn't look as hard as he could have for Francine, that he gave up to save himself and Iris more potential heartache. It was a selfish decision but one I can understand even if I wouldn't make it myself. I didn't find Wally's snark to be overwhelming; at the station Captain Singh was singing Joe's praises while Joe was showing off a bit, and Wally poked a hole in the ego. At the race Wally gave Joe a reality check about his life and circumstances when Joe was pulling rank. Yes, he could have been more tactful but as people have said, he's 19-20 years old, and most of us were less than considerate at that age. I think the convo Wally and Joe had at the end was a step in the right direction. They'll have to figure out where to take their relationship from this point on together. I just hope that the same happens for him and Iris. 

 

Speaking of Iris, ICAM with the poster who mentioned her fulfilling her contractual obligation of a few minutes in the episode, and in both of her longest scenes, she spent 90% of it talking about Barry or Batty. I was so disappointed that in one of the very rare scenes - that of just two women of the show talking together - the whole conversation revolved around Barry. It's so misogynistic and sad. These are two intelligent, talented women who have far more going on in their lives. But digressing, I'm still waiting (likely vainly) for Iris in her own environment (CCPN) with her own arch and her own feelings. Why couldn't part of her talk with Barry been about her feelings about Wally and refereeing between him and her dad?

 

Patty's departure is similar that Henry's. Abrupt, poorly explained and sadly executed. If I were Barry I'd be developing a complex. Maybe Patty's out camping with Henry, laughing with him about how fun it is to leave Barry with poor excuses whilst roasting marshmallows. I can't say I'll miss her, but mostly because her character added nothing to the show outside of deflowering Barry, which was a huge fail on the writers part.

 

We really need more Cisco/Harry, they're hilarious together. We also just need more Cisco with his own journey outside of STAR labs. Why have we never heard anything more about his brother who lost his freaking hand to protect Cisco last season?

 

I can't even with Caitlin and Jay. I just can't. Though as Cisco said, Jay does look great in a tux.

 

I feel like the Turtle could have been a much more effective multi-arch villain if the show had the ability to convey it. Such a waste of a great actor if we never see him again. We can add him to the ever-growing pile of underutilized characters.

 

Really wondering which episode Kevin Smith is going to be directing this season. Maybe he was lucky enough to get into the writers room and tweak a few things. Lord knows he couldn't make it worse.

Edited January 20, 2016 by rogueprinzess

[benteen]

 

I feel like the Turtle could have been a much more effective multi-arch villain if the show had the ability to convey it. Such a waste of a great actor if we never see him again. We can add him to the ever-growing pile of underutilized characters.

 

I agree.  A guy with his powers could have made for an effective multi-part adversary. 

[Cthulhudrew]

Jay has turned out to be pretty useless this season so far. Aside from his initial "I'm going to train you" and showing Barry the lightning tossing technique, he's been functionally pointless. It almost feels like his moping about this episode and saying he isn't doing the team any good without his speed is the writers meta-fictionally noting that they don't know what to do with him.

 

Which is really silly, because, hello? You're a scientist. You've told us a couple of times. And look! Caitlin doesn't have any powers and is just a scientist and is helpful to the team! And Harry doesn't have any powers and is just a scientist and is helpful to the team! And Cisco and Dr. Stein were, at least initially, just scientists and have been invaluable to the team!

 

Why not, you know, use your scientific skills and contribute instead of whining about your powers being gone?

 

(And to the writers, this is why you probably need to spend a little more time specifying just what kind of scientific knowledge each of these characters brings to the team, instead of the more generic "really smart guy/gal," such that when you have a multitude of scientific characters, you can have each one contribute in some fashion.)

Really wondering which episode Kevin Smith is going to be directing this season. Maybe he was lucky enough to get into the writers room and tweak a few things. Lord knows he couldn't make it worse.

 

Given his penchant for slow projects (often extremely slow to the point of non-existence; Daredevil/Bullseye, anyone?), I'm surprised they didn't give him the Turtle episode. :D

Edited January 20, 2016 by Cthulhudrew

[KirkB]

I don't see how what the Turtle does (did?) would be of much use against Zoom. In the end Barry was able to power through it and Zoom is demonstrably more powerful and faster. By the same token I was also wondering how he was able to know Barry was coming in time to use his abilities on him. It's one thing for it to already be going and Barry runs into it, but there were several times he seemed to hear or sense Barry before he arrived even though Barry is supposed to be able to move faster than the eye can perceive. 

 

I get why Wally harbors anger toward Joe but I'm not sure I get the reasons he states. He's upset Joe, who didn't know he existed, didn't come looking for him? Had he been under the impression it was Joe who abandoned his mom I could understand, but he seemed to think Joe just wasn't bothering to look either of them up. Considering it was Francine who kept getting high and abandoned Joe and Iris, I get why he would stop searching for her. As it turns out the two of them seemed to be better off without her. My question is, what did Francine tell Wally? What does he really think the situation is, or was?

 

Oddly, I was just starting to like Patty, though I still don't think I'll miss her. She was basically taking time away from other characters, who already don't get as much as they deserve. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by KirkB

[tennisgurl]

Hi there Chief! Fancy seeing you here!

 

Poor Patti. She kinds grew on me, it sucks how often she seemed to get damseled. That being said, I am not going to miss her a whole lot. She was alright, as far as love interests go, but she never got to be that dynamic of a character, and the whole "shes amazing and awesome and the best thing in Barrys life" thing seemed a bit forced. Their break up was pretty anti-climactic, after all that build up. Oh well. She really is probably better off somewhere else, where shell hopefully spend less time tied to chairs. 

 

Wally... not really feeling him right now. I get that he is young and angry, and his mom is sick, but why did he even bother looking for Joe if he cant stand him so much? Maybe Joe should have looked for Francine more, but he had no idea there was a kid involved. If anything, Wally should be pissed off at his mom for not telling his father about him. Where did Wally think his dad was this whole time? Did Francine tell him that he didn't know about him, or did she let me think that Joe abandoned him? I guess I just really hate that trope where a guy finds out he had a kid he never knew about, and people treat him like some deadbeat. How was he supposed o know? But I am sure he`ll grow on me more when we get more from him than "angry teenager". 

 

Way to make a mans terminal illness all about YOU Caitlin. 

 

Cisco and Harry continue to be great, for comedy and drama. Of course, Cisco is always The Best, so thats to be expected. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by tennisgurl

[Actionmage]

I don't see how what the Turtle does (did?) would be of much use against Zoom.

 

If it is biochemically based, the team may be able to reproduce the effects/powers that The Turtle displayed; maybe even figure out a new use or two.  If it is genetic, I am not sure what they would do. ( If I trusted the writers more, I would want Turtle to be un-reproducible so the team would have to figure a way to work with him.) 

 

but there were several times he seemed to hear or sense Barry before he arrived even though Barry is supposed to be able to move faster than the eye can perceive.

 

Just because he slows things down, doesn't mean that The Turtle isn't part of The Speed Force. Maybe that is how he can tell. I really don't know, but it seems reasonable. The show's more focused on the faster end of the speed spectrum, understandably, but you start to wonder what's the slow end eventually.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I don't know if they are trying to push hints at Caitlin towards a future as Killer Frost or what, but they are making her character quite hard to sympathize with this season.

 

What with the reaction to Jax' not wanting to be a human nuclear reactor (at first) and how she's being with Jay - and how she's treating Ronnie's memory - she has become a bit unlikable, or at least best taken in very small doses.

Edited January 20, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[phoenics]

I don't know if they are trying to push hints at Caitlin towards a future as Killer Frost or what, but they are making her character quite hard to sympathize with this season.

 

What with the reaction to Jax' not wanting to be a human nuclear reactor (at first) and how she's being with Jay - and how she's treating Ronnie's memory - she has become a bit unlikable, or at least best taken in very small doses.

Honestly she was unlikeable in Season 1 when Ronnie came back, but he was "off" and she decided to just run away and throw her drunken self at Barry in order to "move on". I hated that Caitlin and was glad when they pulled back from that awful storyline. But her major plots this season have been off-putting. Honestly the most chemistry I saw with her and anyone was her and Harry. I'm not sure if the actors have a similar method or not, but they vibe well in scenes. And she's trying with Jay - but that guy is just so wooden.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I don't see how what the Turtle does (did?) would be of much use against Zoom. In the end Barry was able to power through it and Zoom is demonstrably more powerful and faster. By the same token I was also wondering how he was able to know Barry was coming in time to use his abilities on him. It's one thing for it to already be going and Barry runs into it, but there were several times he seemed to hear or sense Barry before he arrived even though Barry is supposed to be able to move faster than the eye can perceive. 

Barry was barely able to move through the Turtle-effect and he was expecting it. 

 

If they could reproduce the Turtle-effect and catch Zoom in it, even if he were able to move faster than Barry was, he still would be easy pickings for someone outside the Turtle-effect to shoot him with a projectile or what have you. 

[millennium]

Good riddance, Patty!    I thought for sure her number was up because  A) Barry decided to reveal his identity to her, B) Barry had a nightmare of Zoom killing her, C) Professor Wells warned Barry not to tell her because Zoom would kill her.   But if she wants to ride off into the sunset with Horatio Kane, that works for me too.

 

My favorite part of the episode was Wells telling Cisco the story of how Zoom got his name.   It reminded me of Quint from Jaws saying, "That's the U.S.S. Indiana, Mr. Hooper ..."

 

HATE Wally West.   But then, I hate all sidekicks.   Why do they always have to be such assholes at first?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I tried. I really, really tried.  But, just as Clancy Brown is the definitive Lex Luthor for me, due to his portrayal in Superman: The Animated Series/Justice League/Justice League Unlimited, and KevinFucking!Conroy is the Bats for me due to his over 2 decades worth of work as the voice of Bruce/Batman, Michael Rosenbaum's funny, smart ass, wise cracking, hilarious, sweet portrayal of Wally West/Flash is the Flash for me, and this guy? Sorry. Not even a smidgen of the charm that I have always seen and associated with Wally. Even Young Justice's Wally had the same qualities.

 

And I didn't see any snark, but a lot of passive aggressiveness, and anger that came from nowhere, since HE was the one who came to Joe and Iris, and not the other way around.

 

And I literally got squicked out when Patty told Iris that she knew that Barry was the closest thing she had to a brother or whatever it was she said that I quickly blanked out, because eww. I don't care how I sound, but Barry/Iris. That's the way it should be.  Just like Clark/Lois.  I've had to accept a lot; like how Wally, who has always been Iris' nephew, is now supposed to be her half-brother; Linda Park, who is supposed to be Wally's girlfriend/wife(?), but instead was Barry's love interest. Just ick.  Barry, when he's not angsting, has more of the qualities I associate with Wally, than Wally.

 

And...other things happened, I guess?

[phoenics]

I've been saying since season 1 how irritated I was that they gave some of Wally's traits to Barry.

I think eventually Wally will warm up to the Wests - but the thing is - this isn't JL and JLU from the animated series Wally West anyway. This is more of a new 52 Wally and he's just a bit different. Also - the writers made this Wally a crack baby (still upset by that) and gave him a really jacked up backstory with a lot of angst and pain in it.

I hope fans will give him the benefit of the doubt and let him grow into the role.

And his anger being passive aggressive makes a lot of sense. He's trying to give Joe a chance, but when Joe pushes too hard or oversteps, that's when the passive aggressive pithiness comes out.

At least Wally speaks his mind, ;)

He's got the smart ass part down - now all we need is the humor.

When Lois Lane showed up on Smallville, she was nothing like the Lois we remember. Chloe was actually more like a young Lois then. Fans gave her a chance to grow into it and have her own origin story. I hope we do the same with Wally.

Edited January 21, 2016 by phoenics