Wonder Woman (2017)

[stealinghome]

16 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

Did anybody think that that Amazon who raced to Antiope's side when she was killed was probably her lover?

Yeah, I definitely thought that was the implication.

[Empress1]

Me too. In a community of women, that had to be going on. As Diana said, men are necessary for procreation but not for pleasure. (There were two guys a couple of seats over from me who were like "Aw, man!" when she said that.)

I loved it! I don't know all the back story as I'm not into comic books and the Lynda Carter series aired before I was born. (I know who Wonder Woman is, of course.) I love mythology so when I realized that was her background, I was fired up.

I'd seen Gal Gadot in the Fast & Furious franchise but she wasn't given much to do there. She carries this movie very well. She's strong, smart (if I could have a superpower, it would be to speak every language fluently, so I loved that she could), a little naive, and earnest, and blends them all together quite seamlessly.

The fight scenes were dope. I did a bike ride and run this morning but watching all that physicality made me want to work out again. I was like, let me go get some sword fight training! That scene where she puts on her aunt's headdress and just strides into battle was like ... get it! And I don't think much of Robin Wright, generally, but that shot where she dropped three arrows in the ground and flipped around and then fired them off at once was amazing. I didn't see Ares coming, and I'm not going to lie: him talking about how evil humans are hit a little too close to home in this day and age.

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

I thought that as well.  They could compare notes on their loved ones dying.

At least Diana got to get some. Cap, on the other hand, is still a virgin.

God, I loved the bath scene. Big laugh on Diana's "What is THAT?" with Steve's reaction before he realized she was talking about the watch.

[VCRTracking]

Part Two of my review: "London"

Loved and liked: Diana's reaction to seeing Industrial Age London, Her beauty getting noticed by the men when she arrives. Her walking around London streets in that fur cape. Her reaction to seeing a human baby for the first time. Lucy Davis as Etta Candy. Diana almost changing in public. Diana trying on 1910s clothes and trying to see if she can fight in them. The final outfit she picked. Steve putting glasses on her so she'd be less distracting and Etta snarking "Really? Putting specs on her and suddenly she's not the most beautiful woman you've ever seen?" Diana in her new outfit while still carrying her sword and shield and trying to go through a revolving door. Diana entrusting her weapons with Etta. Diana saving Steve's life from a gunman in the alley by using her bracelet and Steve catching the hot bullet in his hands. Diana blocking more bullets and kicking ass with Steve. Etta with the sword and shield stopping the fleeing assassin. Diana catching with her lasso and trying to make him talk and him taking cyanide. David Thewlis aka Professor Lupin aka Varga from this season of Fargo as Sir Patrick. Diana not listening to Steve and walking into the British Parliament meeting and her mere presence bothering the men. Diana totally not GAF about that eras "women are not allowed here" shit. Steve adlibbing her new name "Diana Prince". Diana translating the languages in Dr. Poison's lab notes. Diana's outrage at the generals for sitting at a desk while sending others to fight, and calling them cowards and saying she's ashamed of them! Steve telling her he was lying and that they are going to the front. Steve taking the lasso to show Diana he's telling the truth and also being compelled to tell her they're probably going to die and that it's a terrible idea! Steve going to a pub to get help. Sameer's reaction to seeing Diana. Sameer and Diana conversing in various languages. Diana thinking their next recruit Charlie is the big guy winning the fight, when he's the guy getting beat up! Diana throwing that guy across the room and Sameer saying he's both "frightened and aroused!" Sir Patrick appearing and telling them they have his to go on this secret mission(this is when I started to get suspicious!). Diana's reaction to eating ice cream for the first time and telling the vendor "You should be proud!" Their last recruit the Chief. General Luddendorf and Dr Poison giggling like children after locking the German generals in a room full of poison gas and leaving only one gas mask, knowing it won't work!

Dislikes: Only that I wanted more Etta.

This is the section where I really started to really love both Gal Gadot and Diana. I liked her and was attracted to her before but this is where I went full on crushing. In Batman V Superman Gadot was very good at playing Diana as this sophisticated woman of mystery, who intrigued Bruce Wayne at a fancy party. Here she's even better as basically Ariel in the Little Mermaid, looking in wonder at this modern world around her. The way she yelled "Ooh a baby!" made me smile. Her outfit especially with the glasses was so cute. This is also where I felt changing World War I instead of II became a good choice. She stands out so much more in this conservative, pre-Jazz Age era. The scene where she's yelling at the generals, people in the audience were legit clapping after that. I also immediately liked Steve's friends. I recognized some of them, especially Charlie(Spud from Trainspotting).

TBC in Part III: "The Front".

Edited June 4, 2017 by VCRTracking

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just got back from seeing this and here are my initial thoughts and what I felt after seeing this:

BLOODY FANTASTIC!!!!!!!'
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Not since The Dark Knight have I thoroughly enjoyed and loved a DC movie! Can Patty Jenkins just direct them all?
If I could afford it, I'd watch this every night! TOTALLY getting this on bluray ??????
Gal Gadot now shares the spot with Lynda Carter as my favorite Diana/Wonder Woman!

Now I'm going to read everyone else's comments.

Edited June 4, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[methodwriter85]

I thought Gal Gadot was absolutely luminous in the part. She managed to make Wonder Woman sweet and optimistic that people would get things right once she got rid of the War, but she didn't seem foolish, either. And I loved that they picked someone in their early 30's- she's very much a woman and not a blank-faced ingenue. So glad they didn't pick some 22-year old model.

This was a role that Chris Pine needed to have (his movies haven't been doing so hot), and I definitely felt him and his chemistry with Wonder Woman.

The World War I setting was different but it did distinguish itself from the Marvel movies, and most importantly- it becomes less about the U.S. in the process. The U.S. were only in WWI for about the last year of it. Also, you really don't see a lot of World War I movies.

[phalange]

I just saw it earlier tonight, and this was absolutely the female-led superhero movie I've been waiting for. I love everything about it. The scenes in Themyscira were gorgeous. The battle scene on the beach was amazingly choreographed. One of my favorite lines was from the scene when Hippolyta warns Diana about the risks of leaving and Diana says, "Who will I be if I stay?" 

The scene with Diana and Steve on the boat was hilarious. I cracked up when Diana explained that she was sculpted from clay and brought to life by Zeus and Steve's response was, "Well, that's neat." Also Diana talking about the twelve books on human reproduction and her conclusion about men. That got a big laugh in my theater. I liked all the scenes of her experiencing human life in London, such as her reaction to the baby, trying to exit a revolving door (with her sword!), and trying ice cream for the first time. Plus her confusion about the impracticality of women's fashion. Also, the scene where Diana and Steve dance and she's amazed by the snow was beautiful.

Diana walking across No Man's Land was so powerful that I got chills. I think it was my favorite scene. Though I also got chills when the theme played during her fight scene with Luddendorf on the tower. I cried twice: first when Diana remembers Steve's words to her ("I love you" and "I wish we had more time") as he gives her the watch, and then when the war is over and she sees Steve's picture on the wall. 

At the time I saw it, the movie was sold out and there was applause at the end, which was great. I intend to go see it again soon. Hollywood needs to get Patty Jenkins to direct all the things from now on. 

[ruby24]

I thought it was alright. I mean, it's fine for what it was, but there were just so many things I wanted it to be that it wasn't. I hated all the stuff with the gods and how they made it this weird, stupid thing with Ares and Zeus and how she's not really an Amazon. I hated that she had a sword and shield. I wanted it to be more overtly feminist and about how men have no respect for women and how this is a woman who crushes any man in her way. I hated the WWI setting and how it now has nothing to do with America, because Wonder Woman is supposed to be this All American superhero from the golden age.

I wanted her to be a more commanding, confident superhero right off instead of this person that Chris Pine has to teach things to, etc. I wanted Steve Trevor to be the damsel in distress and for her to be the one rescuing him and taking care of him in a complete gender swap of superhero norms. Instead they're basically partners because he can't be emasculated.

I hated the slo-mo action, that shit always looks like a video game to me. The ending was crap in that stupid fight scene with Ares. I hated how most of the war stuff is a complete ripoff of Captain America (and don't even try to tell me it's not, what with that motley crew he assembles to fight with them). 

[bluvelvet]

I really enjoyed this movie, after BvS I was concerned about this movie but it really delivered.  

Absolutely loved the fight scene on the beach and her walk across no mans land. Seeing these powerful women dominate was all kinds of awesome. 

[Sakura12]

I was fine with Steve not being the damsel in distress. The point of gender equality is not the reverse the gender roles, but to make us equal in our accomplishments. Which is what this movie did. Diana inspired Steve and Steve inspired Diana. And the they both inspired others. They were both heroes. Diana fought the god of war and Steve fought the war he could. 

I also liked that they commented on her beauty (Gal Gadot is beautiful) but it wasn't sexualized. The bit about putting glasses on her suddenly making her less beautiful was a great moment. Since that is the Hollywood way. 

I also liked that the men were skeptical about a woman joining them on the front lines. Then they saw her throw a man across the room with one hand and never said anything about her coming with them again. Saamir beliving her was also great. He was like I saw her pick up tank like it was a baseball and destroy a building with her body. If she's says the Ares the god of war is involved I believe her. 

Diana's fish out of water storyline was used we'll too. She was naive but not completely sheltered. She knew about the pleasures of the flesh and her telling Steve he wouldn't like the books she read because it said men are needed for procreation but unnecessary for pleasure. 

Diana walking across no man's land was amazing, then all the men followed her across. Then when she came into her full power it was awesome. 

I also hope we can see more of a friendship between Bruce and Diana in Juctice League. That little bit was nice with him finding and giving the oringal picture of her team. 

In conclusion I loved this movie. It had the humor and the heart that the other DC movies were missing. 

[Spartan Girl]

@Sakura12, word to everything you said. I loved the complexity of Diana's personality. Her being naive about the modern world and having compassion for others didn't make her any less of a badass. Too often women are criticized for being either not "strong enough" or not "feminine enough". It's infuriating. We can never win with those people.

Anyone else bummed that while Steve told her he loved her, he didn't kiss her goodbye? That's like the number one movie trope: that there's always time for a goodbye kiss. On one hand, it's refreshing and realistic, but still, sad. And what made it so heartbreaking for Diana was that she didn't even get a chance to tell him how she felt. She didn't even get a chance to apologize for blaming him for the village being gassed; she probably realized later that evening  he hadn't stopped her from killing the German leader at the gala, the army still would have carried it out. Losing someone is always ten times worse when things are left unresolved.

I shipped Diana and Bruce in the JL cartoon, but I'd prefer them to stay friends in the movies.

[ruby24]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

I was fine with Steve not being the damsel in distress. The point of gender equality is not the reverse the gender roles, but to make us equal in our accomplishments. Which is what this movie did. Diana inspired Steve and Steve inspired Diana. And the they both inspired others. They were both heroes. Diana fought the god of war and Steve fought the war he could. 

No, this leaves me wholly unsatisfied. Superheroes are supposed to be just that, better than anyone else. Wonder Woman especially, is supposed to be top tier, on the level with Superman. I WANTED to see her rescue an ordinary human man like Steve, the way she does in the comics. And I know the studio was against this from the start, because the original director Michelle McLaren quit production because of interference from them regarding this issue. They didn't want to let the male character be emasculated.

That infuriates me because no such concern is ever espoused over the female characters in male superhero stories. But no, protect Steve Trevor's usefulness and manliness at all costs. Ugh.

It was similarly annoying the way the female warriors on the island were supposed to be awesome and yet they were somehow evenly matched by the Germans who invaded, getting easily mowed down by human bullets. What was that about? I wanted to see those women dominate those mortal men like they were nothing. Why didn't they all have bullet deflecting bracelets? That was odd.

Edited June 4, 2017 by ruby24

[MarkHB]

14 hours ago, shantown said:

Do we have to use spoilers if the film is already out?

No, you're good. There are really only two big "surprises" in the movies IMO, those being the Ares reveal and Steve's fate, and those are both out there in the wind at this point.

[Sakura12]

For me they did show how powerful she was. The whole fight with Ares was showing that the mortal men were nothing compared to her and Ares. Steve and his team could not fight a god, but they could continue to fight their human war. 

Then before that all the men assisted her in saving the village. She was the one that crossed no man's land by herself. They were her sidekicks, she was the hero.

I don't need to see Steve tied to a chair and be rescued by Diana. They showed me how powerful she is without doing that. They showed me she's stronger than Superman because she has no weaknesses like he does. People just think he's a god, while she's an actual god. 

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I was fine with Steve not being the damsel in distress. The point of gender equality is not the reverse the gender roles, but to make us equal in our accomplishments. Which is what this movie did. Diana inspired Steve and Steve inspired Diana. And the they both inspired others. They were both heroes. Diana fought the god of war and Steve fought the war he could. 

No, this leaves me wholly unsatisfied. Superheroes are supposed to be just that, better than anyone else. Wonder Woman especially, is supposed to be top tier, on the level with Superman. I WANTED to see her rescue an ordinary human man like Steve, the way she does in the comics. And I know the studio was against this from the start, because the original director Michelle McLaren quit production because of interference from them regarding this issue. They didn't want to let the male character be emasculated.

This is what Patty Jenkins said about Steve Trevor and his and Diana's relationship:
 

Quote

 

“He actually is very difficult, but also very easy in a way. So he hasn’t changed, not at all since I have ever been interested, because of exactly that [reason]. I didn’t want him to be a damsel in distress, I didn’t want to make an issue out of it, I didn’t want to make a feminist statement with him. I wanted the guy who you want to be with, who is cool that you are trying to do something else at the same time. I wanted to live up to that emotionally myself.

Since the beginning I have cared passionately about hitting that same target that anybody would want to hit for your love interest. Make him someone that I’m in love with, who believes in me and helps me where I have weakness. The vulnerability of that relationship meant everything to me and I would say it all the time throughout the movie to other people. I was like “You would never do that to Superman and you would never do that to Lois Lane”. If we would ever have [the discussion] of “She can’t need his help!” and if Superman went “F**k you Lois!”, how satisfying would that be to anybody? They have to need each other and it has to be a love story where everyone has to be stronger and more powerful. We just have to make it work. We can’t overthink of what it means to say that she needs him for a second or he knows more than her in this way and she knows more than him in another way. She’s a superhero, don’t worry about her. I think that Superman is a great parallel for that, all of them are, you know? You wouldn’t do it to Gwen Stacy, you wouldn’t do it to anybody, so it’s important that all of those people have their people in the world that believe in them, love and help them while understanding that their lives are complicated.”

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by VCRTracking

[shantown]

9 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I thought it was alright. I mean, it's fine for what it was, but there were just so many things I wanted it to be that it wasn't. I hated all the stuff with the gods and how they made it this weird, stupid thing with Ares and Zeus and how she's not really an Amazon. I hated that she had a sword and shield. I wanted it to be more overtly feminist and about how men have no respect for women and how this is a woman who crushes any man in her way. I hated the WWI setting and how it now has nothing to do with America, because Wonder Woman is supposed to be this All American superhero from the golden age.

I wanted her to be a more commanding, confident superhero right off instead of this person that Chris Pine has to teach things to, etc. I wanted Steve Trevor to be the damsel in distress and for her to be the one rescuing him and taking care of him in a complete gender swap of superhero norms. Instead they're basically partners because he can't be emasculated.

I hated the slo-mo action, that shit always looks like a video game to me. The ending was crap in that stupid fight scene with Ares. I hated how most of the war stuff is a complete ripoff of Captain America (and don't even try to tell me it's not, what with that motley crew he assembles to fight with them). 

I actually liked that it wasn't set in America and had nothing to do with America. It was nice to see that superheroes exist outside of just our country since there is evil elsewhere in the world to stop. I don't need it to be set in the US to feel invested so I guess that didn't detract from the movie at all for me. I never even considered it.

I also really liked the slo-mo. Maybe there was a little too much but with action movies sometimes there so much, well, ACTION happening that you miss some of the incredibly cool stuntwork and choreography. I'm glad there was a slo-mo bit for the part of the fight with the three arrows, that was such a cool and just incredibly powerful move that I think it would have been lost if shown in real-time.

[BitterApple]

4 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I was fine with Steve not being the damsel in distress. The point of gender equality is not the reverse the gender roles, but to make us equal in our accomplishments. 

It didn't bother me either. Steve was a soldier and a spy. Writing him as some wilting wallflower who needed rescuing would've been completely unrealistic. I actually loved that both Diana and Steve were brave, strong characters who brought out the best in each other.

[slowpoked]

Except for the requisite superhero battle scene in the last half-hour, this felt more like a war movie to me more than a superhero movie, and that's a great thing. The No Man's Land battle is reminiscent of a lot of fight scenes in war movies. I loved this movie. Gal Gadot takes a superstar turn here. I love her WW - smart, intelligent, fighter, naive, earnest, full of faith even when she's seen the evils of the world. I also love how Steve treated her as an equal, how he respected that she came from another world, and just because the things she said in the beginning didn't make much sense to him, he didn't treat her as someone stupid and underneath him. He respected her strength. As she continues to learn of his world, he is both genuinely confused and amazed by her. One of Chris Pine's better performances. Chris and Gal really have sizzling chemistry, and I ended up feeling bad for WW at the end that she didn't get her happy ending with Steve. His "I wish we had more time...", knowing there is no chance he was ever coming back, was heartbreaking.

Jenkins' straightforward directing helped a ton. One of my gripes with BvS is that it didn't know how and where to stop with the dreams, visions, nightmares, flashbacks, etc. Once Diana was out of Themyscira, the story moved forward in London and Germany without turning back. And I echo most of the sentiments of the lack of the male gaze on WW. It never felt like Gal Gadot was ogled at at any point in the movie. She made a very good point when Lucy was dressing her up when she asked "How do women fight in this?" Her clothing wasn't to emphasize her sexuality but to focus on her power.

16 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I wanted it to be more overtly feminist and about how men have no respect for women and how this is a woman who crushes any man in her way.

IMO, that's not what feminism is all about. That's what gives feminism a bad name. And I'm glad they didn't take it to that direction.

Edited June 4, 2017 by slowpoked

[scarynikki12]

I think that there wasn't a goodbye kiss because Steve knew he wouldn't be able to go through with his mission if he gave in.  When she called his name he slowed his run but then had to force himself to keep going.  No way could he have walked away after a kiss. 

I want all directors to take note because Patty Jenkins treated Steve Trevor the way I always wish, but rarely/never see, the female love interests were treated.  Steve wasn't her equal physically but he was her equal in spirit, determination, and love and that's what tends to be missing with the female love interests in other movies. 

[alihart41]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

It didn't bother me either. Steve was a soldier and a spy. Writing him as some wilting wallflower who needed rescuing would've been completely unrealistic. I actually loved that both Diana and Steve were brave, strong characters who brought out the best in each other.

Agreed. I love that Steve was not a "damsel in distress" but a well-rounded character who had his own goals, was essential to the story and was a great partner for Diana. If anything, his portrayal is an indictment of the "damsel in distress" roles female love interests have had in male-fronted superhero films and a call to do better.

[ruby24]

5 minutes ago, alihart41 said:

Agreed. I love that Steve was not a "damsel in distress" but a well-rounded character who had his own goals, was essential to the story and was a great partner for Diana. If anything, his portrayal is an indictment of the "damsel in distress" roles female love interests have had in male-fronted superhero films and a call to do better.

They won't though. He gets this special treatment because he's a man. Wonder Woman should not get to be the equal of a human man, she should be the equal of other male superheroes, who get to be the BEST and the ONLY in their movies, the one who is worshiped by the crowds, celebrated by the world (or feared if you're a vigilante type, but still singled out), etc. She doesn't even get to be a known hero in this, she saves one town that ends up getting gassed anyway, so basically nobody even knows she exists.

[Sakura12]

Diana is not Steve's equal, she was shown to be so much more then him. Where they are equal is their determination and spirit to help save the world. The Steve in this movie is someone I can see Diana falling for.  I could not see her falling for someone that needed to be rescued all the time. 

Maybe men won't ever get the same treatment as women when they are love interests, for me however it's not reversing the roles that will make us move forward. It is showing that women can be equal or more powerful then the men, without making anybody weaker just to show the other person is better. 

Its nowhere near perfect, but I think this movie was that step forward. 

[mcree]

Where's the island: Steve flew from (what is now) Turkey in a biplane, and was able to get to London overnight by boat -- a small sailboat, but they "hitched a ride" and were towed most of the way.

Even if the island is veiled by fog and invisibility, sailors would eventually notice a dead zone over a few thousand years in the heavily traveled Mediterranean. I suggest the island itself also moves. That also explains why it's difficult for Diana to return.

22 hours ago, stealinghome said:

It wasn't quite as transcendent as I'd hoped and the RT score is probably a little high

The RT score is the percentage of "thumbs up". At the moment, it's 93% "you should go see this movie". In the small print right below, it says "Average Rating: 7.6/10" from 245 reviews, which coincidentally matches the 76/100 Metacritic score counting 49 reviews (probably a strict subset of RT's). Last week's Pirates movie is at 29% and 4.7/10 on RT and 39/100 on Metacritic.

The audience score for WW is also 93% "liked it" -- so apparently the RT score is right on the money. They rated it higher at 4.5/5. For Pirates, 70% "liked it", which perhaps says something about somebody, but since I haven't seen it, I will refrain.

[stealinghome]

8 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Diana is not Steve's equal, she was shown to be so much more then him. Where they are equal is their determination and spirit to help save the world. The Steve in this movie is someone I can see Diana falling for.  I could not see her falling for someone that needed to be rescued all the time. 

Maybe men won't ever get the same treatment as women when they are love interests, for me however it's not reversing the roles that will make us move forward. It is showing that women can be equal or more powerful then the men, without making anybody weaker just to show the other person is better. 

I agree with both of these points. Aside from the inherent implausibility of Diana falling for someone who is constantly shown to be weak and helpless, I think there's an argument to be made that making Steve a damsel would have undercut Diana's own power and the feminist message the movie was trying to deliver. Because you just know a lot of knuckleheads would've been like "Oh look, women can only be strong when they're with 'wussy men,'" or "Diana only looks strong because everyone else around her is so weak, she wouldn't look nearly as strong if she was with a real ~STRONG man," or even "so feminism requires emasculating men? Okay then, lets reject it!" idk, it's a thorny subject and I totally get where you are coming from, @ruby24, both in wanting a male LI to get the classic female LI treatment as well as in doubting that this movie will lead to female love interests being treated better anytime soon. I would love it if this movie changed things on that front, but it won't. At the same time, ultimately I think the movie had more to lose than gain by making Steve a helpless damsel. Now there is absolutely no question that Diana far, far outmatched even an "above-average man." It's also an interestingly meta decision....

so basically nobody even knows she exists.

To be fair, isn't Wonder Woman unknown in BvS? I didn't watch the movie but that was the impression I got. Can't have Diana be a big WWI hero and then have nobody know who she is in the present.

[ruby24]

Yeah, I mean it's possible the kind of stuff I'm wanting to see with her could happen in a sequel. I want her to get the Superman treatment (70's Superman), with the whole world celebrating this amazing superhero who performs heroic feats and stands for the strength of women.

[Lugal]

13 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

To be fair, isn't Wonder Woman unknown in BvS? I didn't watch the movie but that was the impression I got. Can't have Diana be a big WWI hero and then have nobody know who she is in the present.

Lex Luthor had records of her from WWI (that old photograph) so she wasn't completely forgotten.  She was an anomaly that faded from living memory and then was either filed away and forgotten or became distorted and hazy.

[stealinghome]

12 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Yeah, I mean it's possible the kind of stuff I'm wanting to see with her could happen in a sequel. I want her to get the Superman treatment (70's Superman), with the whole world celebrating this amazing superhero who performs heroic feats and stands for the strength of women.

I will be deeply disappointed if this DOESN'T happen! This should be the case even in Justice League tbh....

Edited June 4, 2017 by stealinghome

[GHScorpiosRule]

Not much to add to what @scarynikki12, @Sakura12 and @stealinghome said about Steve being the damsel in distress, except that Diana did save him from drowning, being shot when they were surrounded by Germans in London in that alley. So I had no problem with how he was portrayed. Pine is my second favorite Steve Trevor, after Bobby Ewing's Patrick Duffy's two episode appearance in Justice League's "The Savage Time."?

And like @Spartan Girl, in the animated universe, specifically, Bruce Timm's DCAU, it is Diana/WW and Batman ❤️??❤️FOHEVAH!!!❤️??❤️In this universe? Bruce and "Batman" don't DESERVE her. And I just want them to remain colleagues. I've already stated why I can't stand this "Batman" or his portrayer elsewhere, so I won't repeat myself here, except to whine about say what loss of potential in not having Bale reprise his role. I mean, Marvel didn't recast their individual heroes when they finally released Avengers, did they? ? Okay, okay, I'll shut up. Okay, one more thing-I'm still ambivalent about the Justice League movie, because BarryFucking!Allen looks like a child/teen compared to everyone else, when he should be in his 30's, and Cyborg should be the youngin', considering he was Dick's contemporary in Teen Titans. Shoulda just named this Flash, Bart.?

And here are the questions I was left with (because I'm only going by my knowledge from the DCAU)-Did they change who Diana's father was for this movie? In Timm's Justice League, it was Hades who "breathed life into her." And all the Greek Gods except for Ares, who, again from my knowledge and classes, was always considered the weakest god, survived?! Mmmkay, whatever.

Someone mentioned accents upthread-I thought Connie Nielsen was using her natural accent-it sounded the same as when she was on Law & Order: SVU, when she replaced Mariska Hargitay, while Hargitay was on maternity leave. So I never questioned it here.

But yeah, this movie had the heart and the humor that has been non-existent, practically in the post-Nolan DCEU. I laughed, I cheered, I cried. I thought the fight scenes were AWESOME! My favorite was Diana's walk through No Man's Land, but I also loved the special effects of Diana using her lasso to fight Ares.

Oh! Loved, loved, loved Sameer! The scene where he was the driver that lost Pine's German officer's gala invitation had the whole theatre busting a gut!???????????

And I snorted/laughed at the way Diana tilted her head when looking at that blonde woman in the blue dress, she took for herself to wear to the gala. Like, hmmm, will this fit me or not???

And if the sword that Diana thought was the God-Killer, that got destroyed to smithereens when she used it on Ares, where'd she get another one? Certainly not from Hephaestus, because he's DEAD. Plus, Hippolyta told her the door to Themiscyra would be forever closed to her if she left. Maybe she changed her mind and the Amazons forged a new sword for her- and that was the one we saw in that piece of GARBAGE Batman v. Superman.

And now? I HAVE to and MUST see this again in IMAX!??

Edited June 4, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

Yeah, I mean it's possible the kind of stuff I'm wanting to see with her could happen in a sequel. I want her to get the Superman treatment (70's Superman), with the whole world celebrating this amazing superhero who performs heroic feats and stands for the strength of women.

 

56 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

I will be deeply disappointed if this DOESN'T happen! This should be the case even in Justice League tbh....

Yeah, I have had it up to here with the "lets shit on the superhero because he/she is an alien and blame them for the collateral damage that was the actual bad guy's fault." Ungrateful turds.

[ruby24]

I think they've gotten away from the idea of performing heroic feats in favor of the big CGI "battle" with the supervillain. I'm real tired of that.

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, stealinghome said:

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

Yeah, I mean it's possible the kind of stuff I'm wanting to see with her could happen in a sequel. I want her to get the Superman treatment (70's Superman), with the whole world celebrating this amazing superhero who performs heroic feats and stands for the strength of women.

I will be deeply disappointed if this DOESN'T happen! This should be the case even in Justice League tbh....

The general public knowing of the existence of a women with super powers derived from the Greek Gods would have changed the course of recent human history.  It would have as much impact as Superman did in Man of Steel and BVS. We would be living in a different world. Captain America, could get away with being a legend and inspiration had enhanced abilities due to chemical substances. While extraordinary I don't think it would be as society altering as the atomic bomb was IRL.

15 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And here are the questions I was left with (because I'm only going by my knowledge from the DCAU)-Did they change who Diana's father was for this movie? In Timm's Justice League, it was Hades who "breathed life into her." And all the Greek Gods except for Ares, who, again from my knowledge and classes, was always considered the weakest god, survived?! Mmmkay, whatever.

In Brian Azzarello's controversial New 52 run on Wonder Woman Diana grew up believing the story that her mother made her out of clay and she was given live by the Gods. This actually makes her feel different from the other Amazons her age who deride her and call her "Clay". She then finds out that her mother had a long affair with Zeus and that he is her father. Only her mother and a few of the senior Amazons knew and kept it a secret because Zeus' wife the Goddess Hera who would kill the bastard children of Zeus out of jealous rage. The controversial part of Azzarello's run is HOW their were other Amazon girls around Diana's age. As Haephastus explains:

Haephastus keeps the boys the Amazons don't want to help him in his forge as basically slaves. As he points out to an outraged Diana before he made this deal they were drowned and at least their alive.

Needless to say, a lot of WW fans were not happy about this change in the Amazon legend.

Edited June 4, 2017 by VCRTracking

[ruby24]

Yeah, I wish they hadn't gone with the new 52 backstory. I loved the idea that she was made of clay and had no father. She ought to be a true Amazon. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

The general public knowing of the existence of a women with super powers derived from the Greek Gods would have changed the course of recent human history.  It would have as much impact as Superman did in Man of Steel and BVS. We would be living in a different world. Captain America, could get away with being a legend and inspiration had enhanced abilities due to chemical substances. While extraordinary I don't think it would be as society altering as the atomic bomb was IRL.

In Brian Azzarello's controversial New 52 run on Wonder Woman Diana grew up believing the story that her mother made her out of clay and she was given live by the Gods. This actually makes her feel different from the other Amazons her age who deride her and call her "Clay". She then finds out that her mother had a long affair with Zeus and that he is her father. Only her mother and a few of the senior Amazons knew and kept it a secret because Zeus' wife the Goddess Hera who would kill the bastard children of Zeus out of jealous rage. The controversial part of Azzarello's run is HOW their were other Amazon girls around Diana's age. As Haephastus explains:

Needless to say, a lot of WW fans were not happy about this change in the Amazon legend.

Thanks! Although I know all about Hera from the Greek Mythology classes I took. It's one of the reasons I LOATHE Disney's Hercules-they made HERA his mommy!?

Add me to the list of unhappy. It's pure bullshit. If this had always been the case, Diana's "Hera! Give me Strength!" In the DCAU, would have looked stupid.

[Silver Raven]

2 hours ago, mcree said:

Where's the island: Steve flew from (what is now) Turkey in a biplane, and was able to get to London overnight by boat -- a small sailboat, but they "hitched a ride" and were towed most of the way.

We don't know it was overnight.

I would have liked a throwaway line after they spent the night together, where Diana could comment on whether men really could produce sexual pleasure.

15 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I hated that she had a sword and shield. I wanted it to be more overtly feminist and about how men have no respect for women and how this is a woman who crushes any man in her way. I hated the WWI setting and how it now has nothing to do with America, because Wonder Woman is supposed to be this All American superhero from the golden age.

If she didn't have a sword and shield, she would not have been Wonder Woman.  And. as an Amazon who grew up on a mystical island, how could she possibly be an all American superhero?

[revbfc]

I know it's easy to say after a viewing, but I did guess that Sir Patrick was Ares as soon as he gave the gang the funds to head out, though I suspected it as soon as he looked at Diana in the conference room (not to mention when we find that Ludendorff is using a chemical agent to revitalize himself we should know he is not Ares).  Not that any of that hindered my enjoyment of the movie, it was fantastic, and that twist was just what was needed.

Edited June 5, 2017 by revbfc

[ruby24]

12 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

If she didn't have a sword and shield, she would not have been Wonder Woman.  And. as an Amazon who grew up on a mystical island, how could she possibly be an all American superhero?

Wonder Woman does not have a sword and shield. She has her magic lasso, her bullet deflecting bracelets, her tiara which is also used as projectile, and her invisible plane.

I think they added the sword/shield because they didn't like her actual gadgets enough.

[scarynikki12]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Did they change who Diana's father was for this movie? In Timm's Justice League, it was Hades who "breathed life into her." And all the Greek Gods except for Ares, who, again from my knowledge and classes, was always considered the weakest god, survived?! Mmmkay, whatever.

Piggybacking off of what's already been posted.  In addition to comic backstory, I think Zeus works better because he's the more familiar male Greek God (the average person might know that Hades is a Greek God but they're more likely to think Zeus if asked) and, most importantly, he slept with every female he could.  Zeus myths invariably center around his cheating on Hera, failing to hide it, and her punishing the women for his infidelity.  So, if Diana's going to have an actual father, who better than the most famous Greek cheater? 

[Notwisconsin]

It's interesting to note that in the comics, WW is technically an illegal alien. Also....

In real life, Luddendorff survived the war and was influential in launching Hitler's career, having been a conspirator in the Beer Hall putch in 1924. No Luddendorff, no Hitler. No Hitler, no World War II.

Quote

Thanks! Although I know all about Hera from the Greek Mythology classes I took. It's one of the reasons I LOATHE Disney's Hercules-they made HERA his mommy!

Well, they stole the origin story from Superman, pretty much.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Notwisconsin

[GHScorpiosRule]

Maybe Ludendorff didn't die? I mean I'm sure he looked it, but there was no BLOOD on the sword that went through his body and past the deck, where Steve saw it. It was clean!?

And not really movie related, but I'm wondering why ALL the previews befor this movie started, except for Justice League were for HORROR movies??Either coming out soon or in the Fall? I suppose because they're competitors, no preview for Spidey's new movie. They even showed previews for R rated movies! And this movie is PG-13.

[scarynikki12]

Dr. Poison was still kicking, so I can see her stepping into his role.

[stealinghome]

I got a Spiderman preview, actually. I also got Justice League, Blade Runner 2049, whatever the new Transformers movie is titled, the Kate Winslet-Idris Elba film where they're in a plane crash together, and probably a few more I can't remember now (I feel like one was a big-name WB movie that's not The Mummy?). By far the best-looking one was the one with Idris Elba and Kate Winslet...I would watch those two read the phone book to each other.

ETA: oh, and I got a preview for Atomic Blonde, which I am soooooo there for.

Edited June 4, 2017 by stealinghome

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

the new Transformers movie is titled, the Kate Winslet-Idris Elba film where they're in a plane crash together, <snip>

ETA: oh, and I got a preview for Atomic Blonde, which I am soooooo there for.

I got those as well. But three horror and R-rated movies? Errm....what's up with that? Stupid question, but is Wahlberg supposed to be a recast of LeBouf's character? I haven't seen a Transformers since the second one.

[VCRTracking]

1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I got those as well. But three horror and R-rated movies? Errm....what's up with that? Stupid question, but is Wahlberg supposed to be a recast of LeBouf's character? I haven't seen a Transformers since the second one.

No, LeBeouf's character Sam Witwicky was last seen in the third Transformers movie Dark of the Moon. Wahlberg is playing a character introduced in the last Transformers movie Age of Extinction, named (I swear to God) "Cade Yeager", a Texas inventor. 

At my screening there was the usual previews for upcoming superhero movies from both DC and Marvel. Also Dunkirk and Valerian and the City of Planets. The newest trailer was for Murder on the Orient Express.

[Kromm]

Saw it this morning, so I can go on more than critics now. I'll stay non-spoilery for this, of course.

I thought it was even better than the hype. And the hype has gotten big.

To be clear, I expected and predicted every last thing which happened in the movie. But... it didn't matter. In fact, it helped. Then again, I know Wonder Woman pretty well. Not just the TV show, which I've forgotten big chunks of, but I've read every modern run of the comics to some degree or another, and a decent amount of Bronze and Silver age. This synthesized the best of all of that into something that really worked on film. It even took her dual origin stories and put a spin on that which I liked. I may talk more about that later, under spoiler tags.

In fact a lot of stuff is given reasonable explanations, which are still comic book logic, but are done with enough humor and finesse that the viewer doesn't mind. For example, the way that Trevor crashes onto the Island but he and the Amazons all understand each other. The way an island of nothing but women deals with being an island of only women (yes, I mean something dirty here, but... so does the movie). Why the General is able to actually fight Diana well enough to populate a fairly extended scene. The reason Diana doesn't know her own strength. The way the movie has a reasonable doomsday weapon which makes total sense (because it was a real thing). 

The movie has a simple story, not a complicated one, and that also is a good thing and not a bad one. One area where I've seen critics fall afoul of that is that a certain percentage of them have bashed the last act of the movie, claiming it is typical action movie crap, and drags the rest down. I disagree. I know many of these critics are accomplished professionals, good at analyzing movies, but I think a lot of them missed the point of that last act. While the CGI is predictable... in fact I'd even go as far as to say a little disappointing in execution, the resolution of the fight itself hinges on something that's atypical for action/superhero films. There's a direct message attached to that last battle of a kind which is absent from pretty much every other action film, especially modern superhero ones. Sure there's something which happens right before the fight ends which has happened in lots of action movies, but the way that thing effects our hero is diametrically opposite to what we've seen elsewhere. The reason Wonder Woman is who she is can be seen right in those last few bits, and while there's an element of cheese to it, it's done with such total sincerity by the actress, director and other filmmakers that it's more of a fine expensive cheese than Velveeta.

I left the movie feeling good. Uplifted. That's a rare thing these days, and yes, a first for any DC film in decades (even The Dark Knight was a downer, if a satisfying one). 

A few other notes. Gal Gadot? Proved herself. Yes, they cheated by making everyone else fit her accent rather than the other way around, but it paid off, because the way the other Amazons sounds makes sense in context, and it also left Gal free to emote more naturally rather than worrying about her pronunciation. And yes, as everyone else is saying, Pine steals the movie. But in the best way possible. He's not taking anything away from her. It's symbiotic.

Flaws? Of course there were a few. But stuff that's so minor. The villain talks a bit too much. The CGI, as I already mentioned, is not so hot on the final fight. And there's one really groanworthy moment in the middle of the movie where Dr. Poison looks straight down the barrel of the camera and mouths a super-cheesy villain line of dialogue. And I wish we'd seen a little more of how normal people react to Diana, because even Trevor's crew of rogues weren't ordinary, so their reactions didn't quite count for that. There was a scene in a village where people react to her, and that's about it. Then again, since the running time on this probably couldn't have gone any longer without bogging it down, maybe there's a reason we didn't see more scenes like that.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Kromm

[Kromm]

3 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Wonder Woman does not have a sword and shield. She has her magic lasso, her bullet deflecting bracelets, her tiara which is also used as projectile, and her invisible plane.

I think they added the sword/shield because they didn't like her actual gadgets enough.

She's had a sword and a shield, and occasional other weapons, plenty of times throughout various gold and silver age stories, and quite often in various situation in the modern runs.

People who know the TV show first and foremost, and maybe some of the comic stories from around the same time, don't always know that aspect.

Besides, she doesn't leave this movie with a sword. That's actually part of her character development--both why she doesn't and why she won't need a sword again.

[Kromm]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

Piggybacking off of what's already been posted.  In addition to comic backstory, I think Zeus works better because he's the more familiar male Greek God (the average person might know that Hades is a Greek God but they're more likely to think Zeus if asked) and, most importantly, he slept with every female he could.  Zeus myths invariably center around his cheating on Hera, failing to hide it, and her punishing the women for his infidelity.  So, if Diana's going to have an actual father, who better than the most famous Greek cheater? 

I was originally going to discuss this aspect in spoiler tags, but given that it's already being talked about in the clear here, I'll skip those now.

I loved what they did with her parentage here, because they took something that was done to modernize her in the comics, but did an even better version of it.

In the comics, it became "wah wah angst", even though generally Wonder Woman is the least angsty DC superhero. Here there was a reason why she was given that 'out of clay' story which directly played into both the plot and her character. There's a clear reason she was told it. A clear reason she believed it. A clear character beat which helped the movie because she believed it (a sense of naivety, even though she knew about sex). And a clear dramatic resolution to her finding out the truth, which led her to a better place and not the angry or angsty ones most films like this would have done it with. 

It was even very interesting that the movie skipped the whole demigod thing and just labeled her a goddess. I don't think that was by accident. She had to reasonably be able to win that fight, and that's how. The daughter of a god, even if the mother is a mere Amazon, inherits all the powers of the gods. Dramatically it works. It did make me sad though that it means one of the TV spots, which they flipped up screen cards which also called her "Warrior" and "Hero", used "Goddess" as well for one of them. Way to spoil, marketing department!

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, Kromm said:

Besides, she doesn't leave this movie with a sword. That's actually part of her character development--both why she doesn't and why she won't need a sword again.

She uses a sword in Batman v. Superman.

3 hours ago, Kromm said:

Yes, they cheated by making everyone else fit her accent rather than the other way around, but it paid off, because the way the other Amazons sounds makes sense in context, and it also left Gal free to emote more naturally rather than worrying about her pronunciation.

How is that cheating?

[Bec]

6 hours ago, ruby24 said:

the female warriors on the island were supposed to be awesome and yet they were somehow evenly matched by the Germans who invaded, getting easily mowed down by human bullets. What was that about? I wanted to see those women dominate those mortal men like they were nothing. Why didn't they all have bullet deflecting bracelets? That was odd.

The Amazons didn’t have guns and they still won the battle on the beach. Yeah, they had some casualties, I think we’re supposed to take it that they have never encountered bullets before, so of course they don’t have counter-measures for bullets. The scene where Diana did some crazy force-field thing with her bracelets had all the Amazons looking at her like “what the hell is that?” so I take it that deflecting bullets with her bracelets is a power only Diana has. But the Amazons still managed to kill all of the men in that beach battle (except for the one man that was on their side). Amazons 1, men 0.

And GHScorpiosRule already covered that Diana did save Steve more than once.

I did think the same thing about this movie borrowing heavily from Captain America. Oh well, I like that movie, but I still like Wonder Woman more despite the similarities.

If I have to nitpick, the thing I'm not crazy about is the big bad battle with Ares near the end. It was the most boring part of the movie. And killing Ares didn't even do much. That plane almost went off and gassed London while she got distracted by Ares. Not her finest moment. I did like the sort of philosophical element of it, having her question whether mankind is a blight on this world, whether the world would be better off without mankind's destruction. Then it was cheesetastic when she decided mankind is worth saving because "love".

But seriously, mankind didn't need to be saved from Ares as much as we need to be saved from ourselves, and that's an impossible task even for a goddess because we're constantly destroying ourselves. Wouldn't that wear down her belief in "love" over time? I wonder if that would be further explored in the sequel? I mean, I wouldn't want it to become an angst-fest of a movie, but I do find it interesting.

[VCRTracking]

Part 3 of my review: The Front

Loved and liked:

Finding out Charlie has PTSD Learning the Chief's backstory and his saying his people were wiped out by Steve's.  Diana being just as passionate to save innocent people as she is about killing Ares. NO MAN'S LAND. Diana seen standing in her full costume for the first time deflecting bullets and crossing and blocking Steve and the others following her. Diana fighting the room full of Germans.  Diana fighting on the street with the lasso. Steve and his team helping and forming the shield so she can jump to the clock tower and takeout the sniper. The townspeople cheering for Diana. Steve and Diana dancing(or "swaying") and they way she looks at him. Their first kiss. Learning Sameer wanted to be an actor but was the wrong color. Diana telling Charlie he could sing for them. Sameer finding out about Themyscira and wanting to go there. The way Steve and Sameer get into the castle.   Steve doing a pretty good job of seducing Dr. Poison until he was distracted. Diana walking into the ballroom in the blue gown with the sword in her back. Diana racing to town on horseback.   Diana's despair on being too late and blaming Steve(because she's right she could have stopped it). The Chief sending a smoke signal. Diana going to kill Ares once and for all.

Dislikes: Even though I loved the slow motion shots, a lot of the interior fighting was too fast. I'm glad at least it wasn't shaky cam. I also wish we got more of the party scene.

The "No Man's Land" has been praised with good reason by everyone as THE moment of the movie. As instantly iconic a moment in superhero films as Christopher Reeve's Superman flying to catch Lois, the truck flip in The Dark Knight the Avengers standing together for the first time in a circle. Patty Jenkins nailed this.  The theater reaction was electric. I loved learning more about each of the team. Steve has been smitten Diana since Themyscira but you can see when they dance the moment Diana falls for him in Gal Gadot's eyes. 

To be concluded in Part 4: "Ares".

Edited June 5, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Perfect Xero]

On 6/2/2017 at 11:38 AM, merroni said:

A lot has been said about Gal's costume but if you look at Lynda Carter's costume Gal is fully clothed.  In my fangirl dreams I'd love to see Wonder Woman and Captain America team up. 

That's my dream Marvel/DC crossover project. Part 1 with them meeting in WWII, Part 2 with them meeting again after he's thawed out in modern times.

9 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And if the sword that Diana thought was the God-Killer, that got destroyed to smithereens when she used it on Ares, where'd she get another one? Certainly not from Hephaestus, because he's DEAD. Plus, Hippolyta told her the door to Themiscyra would be forever closed to her if she left. Maybe she changed her mind and the Amazons forged a new sword for her- and that was the one we saw in that piece of GARBAGE Batman v. Superman.

I think she just told her that she might not be able to return. It wasn't an absolute, 'barred from paradise forever' declaration. More like, "Finding your way home will be difficult if you leave."

6 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Piggybacking off of what's already been posted.  In addition to comic backstory, I think Zeus works better because he's the more familiar male Greek God (the average person might know that Hades is a Greek God but they're more likely to think Zeus if asked) and, most importantly, he slept with every female he could.  Zeus myths invariably center around his cheating on Hera, failing to hide it, and her punishing the women for his infidelity.  So, if Diana's going to have an actual father, who better than the most famous Greek cheater? 

One of the few problems I had with the movie was that they turned Zeus and Ares into God and Lucifer. Zeus is the benevolent creator. Ares is jealous of his creations, he's no longer the 'god of War' rather he's a tempter that leads men to evil by playing on what is in their hearts. Zeus sends a child to defeat evil and set an example for his creations to follow.

It's Christian mythos with a Greek veneer over it.