S06.E02: Season 6, Episode 2

[Avaleigh]

My sympathy for Edith has dried up - as I said she's done this twice with little consideration for the people involved. Has she ever made sure Mrs Drewe was okay afterwards? Obviously not by going to check on her herself but she could have asked Cora or Downton's invisible vicar to do so. She yanked the girl away and never looked back. Even now her only concern for the woman who looked after her daughter for a year is that she's removed from the scene ASAP - which is understandable, what is not understandablt though is that she does not care to get her any help. It's especially galling when you compare her behavior to Lady Mary's dealing with Anna in this episode. And let's not forget that the Drewes have other kids - Marigold's foster siblings for a year. But if those kids have a healthy mother or not is of little concern to anyone, nor how they reacted to the sudden disappearance of their foster-sister (conveniently we never get to see them anymore).

 

As for Mrs Drewe not being more welcoming to Lady Edith's visits to the farm - she probably sensed something was off and that Lady Edith showed more interest in Marigold than was normal. And she was absolutely right. Of course she could have put two and two together - but she seems like a rather naive woman. Not every farmer's wife would have bought the husband's story about Marigold to begin with.

 

Also Edith finally telling the truth to Mary could have prevented a lot of drama. It's clear that seeing Marigold triggered Mrs Drewe (though in the long term they can of course not prevent her from seeing the girl occasionally). This whole 'Mary is so horrible she would use Marigold as a weapon against her sister'-angle is ridiculous. And I say that as someone who does not like Lady Mary. In what way could Mary use the girl against her sister? They are currently not competing for the same man's affections (please God, no!) nor for Downton's management. Maybe Mary would blackmail Edith to finally move to London? In which case all I can say is: go Mary!

Re: the first bit in bold---Mrs. Drewe thought that Edith was interested in her husband and Mr. Drewe told Edith this and Edith still didn't give a shit. She never once cared about this poor woman's feelings. She used her repeatedly, hurt her cruelly, and didn't once feel bad about it. She had zero sympathy for Mrs. Drewe and I just find it unconscionable. This woman took care of her baby for a year and not only is Edith not appreciative but she seems like she actively hates the woman for her role in helping to keep Edith's secret safe. 

 

A great loud 'yes!' to the second bit in bold. As usual, Edith is being selfish and ridiculous. It's all about Edith and she doesn't consider for a moment that she brings these situations on herself because of her choices and behavior. 

 

Playing the victim is definitely a specialty of Edith's. 

 

The newspaper storyline is a bust for her so far. It isn't interesting at all it's just one more opportunity for her to whine about how she's being treated unfairly by some person. 

[Daisy]

I have to say I feel so sorry for the Drewes. It doesn't excuse the kidnapping because I would have gone ballistic - but at the same time, it shouldn't have been like that. Edith has no concern for anyone but herself. She took Marigold away from the Swiss family, and then took her away from the Drewes. And quite frankly this is totally cake and having it too, she gets to raise her daughter, and she doesn't have to deal with the stigma. And she was flat out okay with destroying the family with the whole Turkish thing. 

 

I don't blame Mary for not pulling it together, because why should she? Robert figured it out because he spent time with Gregson and she apparently looks like Gregson. I think Cora was actually told right? Mary not clicking it that this is Edith's love child doesn't mean Mary is selfish or whatever (on this score). though I always like Mary so maybe I am biased here. 

 

But Edith isn't really good at anything except being poor, poor sad, sad, Edith and I think she relishes it.

[MissLucas]

Cora was told by Mrs Drewe. Lord Grantham figured it out because Marigold reminded him of Gregson. Which is quite hilarious because he a) never managed to figure out anything on his own so far and b) he never notices Edith so he would have a hard time finding any likeness in the first place. That said the scene where he talks to Edith about Marigold was very sweet. And finally Tom figured it out on his own too, remembering all the 'Marigolds' he grew up with in Ireland. I also think Mrs Hughes knows (and probably Anna too).

 

Mary not figuring out Marigold's true identity isn't that surprising. She's pretty self-centered and in her mind Edith is so bland that she could never get a man interested enough to get down to baby-making business. So far Marigold presents to her her sister's pathetic attempt to get a life by adopting a child of unknown origin and her impatience with all the fussing makes perfect sense from her POV.

 

That said we haven't seen her being unkind to Marigold. She took her along to the farm without any malice - ironically enough she thought it would be nice for the Drewes to see Marigold, go figure. I don't think her behavior towards Marigold would change one way or the other if she knew the truth.

[Guest]

On the Edith vs Mary score I've always come down on Edith's side. Mary is unnecessarily snarky to Edith, many times to the point of being cruel - the time when Gregson died sticks out in my mind as one of the most egregious examples. I totally get why Edith wants Mary out of her personal life as much as possible. But if the driving force of these episodes is going to be 'Will Mary find out?' or 'How will Mary react?' I am going to be a very bored viewer indeed.

 

The trouble is that it feels like nothing is at stake anymore. The hospital? The drive towards progress seems inevitable. And how many times have we had the 'servant thinks he is losing his job' plotline? Do not get me started on the Thomas love interest(??) or the latest in The Bates Tragedy Show. Nothing seems to be on the line for anyone. The biggest nail biter is actually where Carson and Mrs. Hughes are holding their wedding. 

[yb125]

 

Mrs. Drewe thought that Edith was interested in her husband and Mr. Drewe told Edith this and Edith still didn't give a shit.

Well Edith did kiss an other married farmer and his wife knew about it. I am sure that bit of info got around. 

 

 

Lord Grantham figured it out because Marigold reminded him of Gregson.

I don't think this is true or the intention of that line, I know he said the line to Cora, but I really seemed to me that was just a line, a sly way of letting her know he figured it out without coming out and saying it. Throughout the episode they make a point of him looking at Edith and Marigold together and having a thinking look on his face, of him pointing out how attached Edith seems to her and how she looks familiar to him. I think he just figured out that his daughter seems really attached to an other wise random kid that looks as she did as a child not too long after having a romantic relationship and a couple now suspicious trips out of the country. 

[ZoloftBlob]

I'm still waiting for someone to mention that Marigold looks superficially like Mary.

[panthergirl13]

I thought the episode was going to take a creepy horror turn, having Marigold be dead in Mrs. Drewe's arms. I'll show myself out now.

[magdalene]

I hope Thomas stays true to form and lands on his feet.  Throughout the series even at his most manipulative and scheming I have always liked him better than Carson (who may look nicely grandfatherly but is really only kind to his favorites) and the eternal hang-dog Bates.

 

I still believe if Thomas manages to hang on long enough he could be butler eventually.

[Tetraneutron]

Does anyone really think the perfect and saintly Crawley's would summarily fire a servant, especially one who saved Edith's life and stopped Sybbie from being abused?

 

I totally get why Edith wants Mary out of her personal life as much as possible. But if the driving force of these episodes is going to be 'Will Mary find out?' or 'How will Mary react?' I am going to be a very bored viewer indeed.

 

They're saving that "drama" for the finale, I bet. Because what's the worst that can happen? Mary lords it over Edith and treats Edith like shit? Happening anyway, so who cares. The problem is, everyone else knows and no one seems to mind. I also totally buy that Mary just doesn't care about Edith at all and that's why she never noticed that her sister travels to Switzerland for a year before developing an obsession with a local "orphan" child. 

 

I have to say I feel so sorry for the Drewes. It doesn't excuse the kidnapping because I would have gone ballistic - but at the same time, it shouldn't have been like that. Edith has no concern for anyone but herself. 

And THAT'S why they had Mrs. Drewe kidnap Marigold. Because there's no possible way Edith or the Crawleys could look unsympathetic after something like that. The way the story was written made the pig farmers - humble, poor, but kind and noble, content with their lot, good workers, perfect family, loving, look better than the Crawleys and all their soap opera shenanigans. And obviously that won't do - the Crawleys are the heroes here. So they had to blow everything up and make it so Edith is the better one in this situation. Have it so even Mrs. Drewe's husband agrees his wife has gone off the deep end. Putting an innocent child in danger and having full-on crazy eyes. So no matter how poorly Edith handled the situation (and she made stupid panicky mistake after stupid panicky mistake), she comes off looking righteous. No one can seriously say Marigold is better off with the Drewes at this point. 

[photo fox]

I have nothing but sympathy for Mrs. Drewe, who only tried to love as her own a child placed in her care. I just have a great deal of sympathy for Edith, as well, even while I'm disappointed in her. I think it's hard to remember sometimes that we're viewing this in 2015, nearly a century after the time period of DA.

 

I've seen mention of getting Mrs. Drewe mental health assistance, but I'm pretty sure that would have been totally out of the question back then. My great-great-grandmother died in an asylum here in the States in 1938, where she'd been placed years before with what was essentially a bad case of postpartum depression. Mental illness was considered weakness, and people who had it were hidden from sight, not helped. (Not that I necessarily think Mrs. Drewe was ill.)

 

I also think there's been a huge shift over the past few decades in the way we think about adoption. It wasn't that long ago that people used "real" to describe bio parents. Thankfully now society is generally much more accepting of families formed via adoption, but there was definitely a time when "real" families would have won out in court, etc. "Blood is thicker than water", after all. So while Edith has certainly made a bunch of bad decisions, I think she's a product of her time. If she was concerned with Mrs. Drewe's feelings as an "adoptive" mother - I only use quotes because there was nothing legal - I would find it almost anachronistic. The idea that Bates wouldn't be able to love a child that wasn't "his" is far more true to the era.

[MissLucas]

Agreed - depression and other mental illnesses were stigmatised and treatments were often not working. But Edith did not even try to make sure Mrs Drewe was okay. It's not so much about what could have been done to help but about trying to help in the first place.

[wlk68]

Help me out..what has Thomas ever done to deserve any empathy at all. FUCK HIM. If it weren't for Thomas neither of the Bates would have seen the inside of a jail cell. He's been jealous of them and their happiness from the onset and has behaved despicably. 

He saw that a nanny was treating baby Sybbie like trash compared to George, with verbal and physical abuse and if I recall, less/worse food. Got Cora to see what was happening and the nanny got sacked. 

 

He saved Jimmy from a gang of thugs and took a savage beating for him when Jimmy was behaving like a drunken idiot, waving wads of cash around.

 

He saved Edith from the fire.

 

And as far as the Crawleys know, he 'rescued' Isis when she was 'lost'.

 

It's pretty obvious - at least to me - that the other servants told Andy what happened between Thomas and Jimmy - completely ignoring the fact that Thomas and Jimmy were on friendly terms afterwards even though Jimmy wasn't like Thomas in 'that way' and it was a platonic friendship- and now Andy has turned cool and standoffish towards Thomas. I honestly don't think Thomas has any sexual feelings towards Andy, he's just looking for a friend. As indicated by his comment to Mrs Patmore at the fair.

 

Just my two cents.

Edited October 3, 2015 by wlk68

[Eolivet]

I liked this episode a lot -- it felt like the quiet stories the show used to tell in season 1. The kidnapping was about the most "excitement" of the hour, and that was fine, to me. Loved seeing Mary come into her own -- she seems settled and happier now. The veneer of superiority is there, but the edge from the last couple seasons is gone (and I covet her white sweater from the first scene).

 

I like the hospital subplot -- there was a part of me that felt the Violet/Isobel besties plot was strangely contrived, and now the show can finally have them back in their element. Isobel the Activist is a joy to behold -- and she's been missing since pretty much season 1. Also nice to see her and Cora on the same side after they were (almost forcibly) seen butting heads when the house was turned into a hospital. I don't know why Isobel was sitting on the sidelines, with the exception of romantic subplots, for the past few years, but I'm glad to see her back in action.

 

Carson and Hughes was one of those great plots where I thought there was really no wrong answer, and two people with different perspectives. Though I feel shortchanged not seeing Mary confront Mrs. Hughes -- she's one of the only ones who doesn't back down when Mary speaks. Hopefully that's coming soon.

 

This makes me wish Downton ratings were actually on the brink of cancellation the whole time, because I think if you give Fellowes an end point, he can write to it very well. Complacency was the worst thing to happen to this show, because I think he started trying too hard with drama! to keep it interesting. And while I know you can't sustain six years of show based on disagreements about hospital administration, "big stories" were clearly not his strongsuit. He's meant to tell quiet stories, and let the pathos speak for itself. For the first time in a very long time, it feels like the "old" Downton again.

[Camera One]

I felt the same as Eolivet.  I'm liking the uneventful nature of this season.  There aren't really any dragged-out cliffhangers and I'm fine with that.  

 

I can see both Carson and Mrs. Hughes' side in the wedding location, and while it wasn't edge-of-your-seat stuff, the dynamics were mildly interesting.  Ditto for the hospital debate.  I can see both Isobel and Violet's viewpoints.  

 

I enjoyed seeing Mary help Anna and was glad to see her perky old self at the end.

 

I would have liked Edith to express some sadness at what Mrs. Drewe was going through, but I don't blame her for trepidation around Mrs. Drewe either.  I think the writer did intentionally make Mrs. Drewe sympathetic despite having her kidnap Marigold.  He could have really demonized the character considering how vindictive Mrs. Drewe was at the end of last season.  It wouldn't have surprised me if she had gone the revenge route.  It's interesting that this could tie in with the Mr. Mason problem.  I hope they will use a few of the final episodes to have Edith and Mary grow slightly closer... it's sad watching their eyerolling at one another.  I think Mary could have given Edith good advice on how to deal with that obnoxious editor.

 

I'm not sure what they're getting at with the new footman guy and Thomas, but I was fine with a little intrigue which doesn't have too high stakes, for once.  No "Who will Mary choose", or "Will Anna or Bates be convicted of murder", or "Will Thomas reveal Baxter's deep secret", or "Where will Edith hide her baby next", etc.... I'm content.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Camera One

[Roseanna]

He saw that a nanny was treating baby Sybbie like trash compared to George, with verbal and physical abuse and if I recall, less/worse food. Got Cora to see what was happening and the nanny got sacked.

Actually Thomas was annoyed that the nanny tried to give orders to him and in order to revenge her he told Cora that he suspected the nanny was no good in her job with no specific details. When Cora came to nursery, she happened to hear that the nanny called Sybbie a "chauffeur's daughter" who had no right to be near master George.

So, like in the Isis story Thomas got credit for something he didn't do.

However, there was one thing which could get Thomas suspicious of the nanny: she wanted to give Sybbie no eggs but on the other hand Sybbie could have had allergic reaction of them.

[Roseanna]

Re: the first bit in bold---Mrs. Drewe thought that Edith was interested in her husband and Mr. Drewe told Edith this and Edith still didn't give a shit. She never once cared about this poor woman's feelings. She used her repeatedly, hurt her cruelly, and didn't once feel bad about it. She had zero sympathy for Mrs. Drewe and I just find it unconscionable. This woman took care of her baby for a year and not only is Edith not appreciative but she seems like she actively hates the woman for her role in helping to keep Edith's secret safe. 

 

A great loud 'yes!' to the second bit in bold. As usual, Edith is being selfish and ridiculous. It's all about Edith and she doesn't consider for a moment that she brings these situations on herself because of her choices and behavior.

I believe that there was something very wrong with Mrs Drewe. She became at once strangely obsessive with Marigold although she already had three sons of her own. She also never thought how Edith's interest in Marigold could benefit the girl in the future - Edith could f.ex. pay for her education. Or maybe she was afraid of just that for it could raise Marigold socially and culturally higher than her - and she wanted *own* her totally.

Of course Edith was selfish to want to her child back - but what mother couldn't be? But Mrs Drewe was just as selfish and because she refused Edith to be a part of Marigold's life, she lost the girl completely as Edith as a mother had a legal right on her side. It's ridiculous to demand that Edith who had just heard that Marigold's father had died could have thought about anything or anybody but to have their child back in her custody.

If Edith hadn't been "selfish", she would have be a complete doormat who would let there people direct her life.

[Crs97]

I don't follow that Edith had a right to be selfish because she is Marigold's mother but Mrs. Drew didn't have the right to be selfish, even though she was also Marigold's mother. Maybe I am not understanding your post.

I didn't find her to be strangely obsessed. She had older boys who were now busy with school and outdoor activities. She adopts a motherless little girl who spends all day every day with Mrs. Drewe. Perhaps she always wanted a little girl. Perhaps she thought Marigold needed extra love because of her age and the losses she had already suffered. All she knows is that she unconditionally welcomes a daughter into her life and family only to find soon thereafter her husband acting strangely, the main house's single daughter taking an obsessive interest in her family, and her raised concerns being dismissed as her being stupid. Like Mrs. Gregson, Mrs. Drewe is evidence that Edith sure doesn't mind collateral damage as long as she gets her own way.

[Roseanna]

I don't follow that Edith had a right to be selfish because she is Marigold's mother but Mrs. Drew didn't have the right to be selfish, even though she was also Marigold's mother. Maybe I am not understanding your post.

I didn't find her to be strangely obsessed. She had older boys who were now busy with school and outdoor activities. She adopts a motherless little girl who spends all day every day with Mrs. Drewe. Perhaps she always wanted a little girl. Perhaps she thought Marigold needed extra love because of her age and the losses she had already suffered. All she knows is that she unconditionally welcomes a daughter into her life and family only to find soon thereafter her husband acting strangely, the main house's single daughter taking an obsessive interest in her family, and her raised concerns being dismissed as her being stupid. Like Mrs. Gregson, Mrs. Drewe is evidence that Edith sure doesn't mind collateral damage as long as she gets her own way.

I did mean that Edith and Mrs Drewe were just as "selfish", but because Edith was a mother, she had the *legal* right in her side. Drewes had *not* adopted Marigold, the girl was *only* their foster child.

I don't think that Mrs Drewe's kidnapping can only be due to obsession.

If Mr Drewe had told his wife the truth, there could be a compromise. As it was, because Mrs Drewe (although unknowingly) refused Edith the possibility to see her daughter, there was only one solution for any *normal* mother who loves her child.

If Edith had been in the same position than Ethel, her decision could be criticized. As it was, Mrs Drewe could only care of Marigold when she was a baby and toddler, but after that she could offer her nothing but a poor and hard life she herself had. With Edith Marigold can have education and inherit the magazine.

Edith didn't do anything, bad or good, to Gregson's wife who never even learned of her.

[Llywela]

I did mean that Edith and Mrs Drewe were just as "selfish", but because Edith was a mother, she had the *legal* right in her side. Drewes had *not* adopted Marigold, the girl was *only* their foster child.

The kind of legal adoption we'd think of today didn't really exist back then. As far as Mrs Drewe was concerned, she had adopted Marigold. When she took in that little girl, it wasn't a temporary arrangement and there was no question of anyone coming to claim her. The child was an orphan who was joining their family for keeps. That was the deal she agreed to. She agreed to become that child's mother, and loved her wholeheartedly as such.

 

But we've already established that this argument is cyclical.

[Roseanna]

The kind of legal adoption we'd think of today didn't really exist back then. As far as Mrs Drewe was concerned, she had adopted Marigold. When she took in that little girl, it wasn't a temporary arrangement and there was no question of anyone coming to claim her. The child was an orphan who was joining their family for keeps. That was the deal she agreed to. She agreed to become that child's mother, and loved her wholeheartedly as such.

 

I think your viewpoint is too modern and sentimental.

 

Many children were given to foster homes for money, and that didn't mean that they were treated as a own child but only that they were taken care of (given shelter, food, clothes plus taught how to behave) No doubt some were loved (although that word was hardly used by the lower classes) but others were treated ill.

 

Also own children weren't treated like nowadays. A tenant farmer's wife had so much work (usually she worked more hours than he husband because he could have some rest after eating) that she had very little time for children. Adult women were too valuable as productive workforce to be wasted to childcare that was usually done by someone who was too old or too young for "real" work, i.e.  grandmother or sibling or a servant girl like Daisy was in D1.

 

Today we know that separating a child from her primary caretaker she has bonded causes a trauma to a child. Edith did it to Marigold two times (before Mrs Drewes there were The Swiss couple). But she didn't *know* she did wrong as nobody knew it. Cora fired the nanny who treated Sybbie ill and even if she wasn't fit for her job, she should have at least given a chance to say goodbye to the children instead that they found that she had simply vanished in the morning. 

 

Today Edith wouldn't behave like she did - but today she wouldn't have the need to give over her child as she could proudly announce her birth in Times.

[Llywela]

I think your viewpoint is too modern and sentimental.

 

Many children were given to foster homes for money, and that didn't mean that they were treated as a own child but only that they were taken care of (given shelter, food, clothes plus taught how to behave) No doubt some were loved (although that word was hardly used by the lower classes) but others were treated ill.

 

Also own children weren't treated like nowadays. A tenant farmer's wife had so much work (usually she worked more hours than he husband because he could have some rest after eating) that she had very little time for children. Adult women were too valuable as productive workforce to be wasted to childcare that was usually done by someone who was too old or too young for "real" work, i.e.  grandmother or sibling or a servant girl like Daisy was in D1.

And I think yours is a little too unsentimental. So often I see people looking back at the past saying, 'well, it didn't matter that people lost so many children back then because they didn't let themselves bond with them anyway', when the documentary evidence of the time says that actually, no, people in the past were as human as us and were just as likely to be attached to their children as we are and grieved for them when they were lost just as we would. If we can believe that Edith loved Marigold so much that she couldn't bear the separation and went to great lengths to get her back, why shouldn't we believe that the woman who'd cared for Marigold as her own child for over a year also loved the child and grieved when she was taken away? Especially since that is what we were shown on-screen.

 

Yes, sometimes children were treated badly in the past. But children are also sometimes treated badly today. We can't generalise too much in either direction.

[Roseanna]

If we can believe that Edith loved Marigold so much that she couldn't bear the separation and went to great lengths to get her back, why shouldn't we believe that the woman who'd cared for Marigold as her own child for over a year also loved the child and grieved when she was taken away? Especially since that is what we were shown on-screen.

We were also shown that Mrs Drewe kidnapped Marigold. That can't be called normal behavior.

Even before, not only Edith thought that it wouldn't be "safe" for Marigold to visit Drewes' farm, but Cora told afterwards to Robert that Mrs Drewe had behaved strangely which made Robert contact Mr Drewe.

Evidently Fellowes wanted n S5 to anticipate, with the help of Robert and Cora's comments, that Edith's too often visits would began to trouble Drewes. In this episode he in the same manner anticipated that Mrs Drewe could cause trouble.

Perhaps both Edith's and Mrs Drewe's love could be called obsessive as both were unwilling to share Marigold. But Mrs Drewe had a husband and children of her own. Edith had only her daughter whose father she had lost.

Of course we know today that it would be best to let Marigold at least visit Drewes' farm instead of separating her totally from Mrs Drewe and this perhaps drove her over the edge. She seemed to be in a much more worse condition than in S5 where she despite her grief could say goodbye to Marigold and gave her a toy without which she didn't sleep. So perhaps Fellowes wanted to "correct" Edith's bad image by making Mrs Drewe now a monster.

Before all, the show needs dramatic turns. And there was a practical reason: Drewes had to driven away from their farm but not in the way that would make Robert look bad (cf. Mr Mason and the new owner). Unfortunately Mrs Drewe became a collateral damage.

[Primetimer]

When a farmer's wife runs up against the wealth and power of her husband's landlord, she...wishes she hadn't, probably.

Read the story

[jschoolgirl]

This was a really good episode -- more "old school Downton."

I ached for the Drewes. And how common were new tenancies, especially in a time of failing estates? Maybe he and Mr. Mason will switch.

The scenes where Mr. Drewe walks in on Margie and Marigold were beautifully shot.

[photo fox]

For the benefit of American viewers, here's a link pointing to where the comments begin after tonight's airing. :)

[LadyintheLoop]

I don't remember whetherbEdith demanded he not tell his wife or whether he decided it was 'better' this way.

 

 

Edith's original story was that Marigold was a friend's child. Doubtless Drewe was right to realize that her story wouldn't fly, but at least Edith intended to keep both Drewes on the same page, and checking up on the child so that she could reassure her "friend" would have been less worrisome than falling in love with a random baby.

 

The pigs were supposed to be Downton's salvation, right? Will Drewe's departure help bring the story to an end?

[photo fox]

Just a reminder - please keep the posts in here limited to this episode only, for the benefit of our unspoiled viewers.  :)

[Crs97]

So perhaps Fellowes wanted to "correct" Edith's bad image by making Mrs Drewe now a monster.

The monster in this storyline isn't Mrs. Drewe IMO

[whatsatool]

Only ones with senses of humor are Lord Grantham, Carson and Mary. Edith wins for the grimmest.

[alias1]

I've lost all sympathy for Edith. I always thought Mary was the self centered one.  She has nothing on Edith, who does nothing but complain about her single status, her empty flat, her "oh woe is me, why don't I have a life" etc, etc.  I suppose now Fellowes will give her a happy ending.  Marigold doesn't look at all happy with Edith.  Mrs Drewe seems to have more affection for that child than Edith has ever shown.  Edith seems obsessive rather than affectionate. And now she has cost the tenants their livelihood.  

 

I would have second thoughts if I were Mrs Hughes.  Carson is being incredibly insensitive to her wishes.   

[jschoolgirl]

I want Shonda Rhimes to come in a guest-write just one episode of this show so something will actually happen.

---------------------

Oh, God! Imagine the speeches! That could be a fun project for some writer/producer to pitch to Buzzfeed or Upworthy or something.

(I realize the OP is probably not reading at this point.)

[statsgirl]

I'm hoping Mrs. Hughes will win out in the end.  Carson, along with Robert, had a good hand in making Mary the narcissist that she is today which then led to the ruin of a number of people's happiness.  At least Robert realizes to some extent that letting Mary do whatever she wants leads to problems, even if at other times she does well. Carson is still ruining her.

 

I feel sorry for Mr. Drewe.  He was trying to do a good thing but he didn't realize his wife was going to be unstable.  It was kind of the Drewe's to take in Marigold but now Mrs. Drewe knows that Edith is her birth mother.  Edith loves Marigold, while she can give her a better life financially and in terms of education than the Drewe's can, mostly it's that she's always loved her daughter.

 

Both women deserve sympathy -- Edith who tried to keep her daughter with her and was prevented from it by society, and Mrs. Drewe who loved a child who wasn't hers and who she had to give up but couldn't.  In this episode, Cora's role was to be the Cassandra who told people that Mrs. Drewe was behaving in a mentally unstable way -- unable to let the child go even to the point of kidnapping her and saying "this is her home".

[photo fox]

Mrs Drewe seems to have more affection for that child than Edith has ever shown.  Edith seems obsessive rather than affectionate.

None of the upstairs people are what I would call affectionate with the children.  Only Thomas/George and Tom/Sybbie seem like "natural" adult/child relationships to me.  Mostly the kids get trotted in once a day to be politely inspected.

[statsgirl]

That was standard with the upper class back then. Children were raised by nannies and brought down once a day for an hour to play, and then boys were packed off to school when they were around eight, sometimes the girls too.  Tom is affectionate with Sybbie because he grew up in a lower class family.

 

Mary has rarely shown any affection to George other than to show him off but there is no doubt she prizes him.  Even the amount of time Edith spend playing with Marigold would have been looked at as unusual.

Edited January 11, 2016 by statsgirl

[Amethyst]

The monster in this storyline isn't Mrs. Drewe IMO

 

IA.  I can't blame Edith in the slightest for being worried sick, but that shot with Mrs. Drewe holding the sleeping Marigold was just heartbreaking.  

 

What I wished was for Edith to acknowledge (even briefly) that from a mother's pov, she could understand why Mrs. Drewe couldn't let Marigold go.  She certainly didn't have to, but it would have made Edith look more mature and forgiving, as well as wrapping up this plotline in a more satisfying fashion.  Mr. Drewe was spot on: none of them considered the emotional fallout of this arrangement.  Marigold is a person, not a toy to be traded back and forth.  I hate that Mrs. Drewe is looked at as a potential problem on Edith and Marigold's route to happiness, rather than a grieving mother who has lost something the meant the world to her.  At least Robert realized that this situation isn't open and shut.

 

I thought Mrs. Hughes getting her inner bridezilla on was funny, considering that she never asks for anything.  It's not like she's being demanding; she and Carson have the right to have their wedding where they choose.  

 

Lol @ Mary's "But whose going to take me and George home?" when she learned Marigold was missing.  Oh, Mary.

 

I get Daisy's point, but I kind of wish she would shut up.

 

What exactly was Mrs. Patmore trying to tell Thomas at the fair?  Is he trying to hit on Andy?  I thought he was just trying to be his friend.  

 

Speaking of which, I love the friendship (or sort of) between Thomas and Baxter.  The fact that she tries so hard to get through to him is a sweet testament to her character.  

[statsgirl]

What exactly was Mrs. Patmore trying to tell Thomas at the fair?  Is he trying to hit on Andy?  I thought he was just trying to be his friend.  

Thomas was, but Mrs. Patmore thought he was trying to hit on Andy.  I imagine everyone below stairs except for Baxter was warning Andy away from Thomas.

 

It really does seem to be "let's beat up on Thomas" this season.  I just wanted to smack Carson repeatedly for deliberately being cruel to him  about whether he needs to find other work.  It's a matter of having work or starving and Carson can just get off his dratted high horse and be fair for once.

 

 

Marigold is a person, not a toy to be traded back and forth.

That's true but Edith never wanted to trade her back and forth. If she could have kept Marigold from the beginning, she would have.

 

There's a parallel with Edith and Mrs. Drewe although I don't know if it's intentional.  Mrs. Drewe decided that Edith was not to be allowed to visit Marigold any more, which made Edith so desperate she felt she had to take Marigold herself.  Then Mrs. Drewe's seeing Marigold got too intense (i.e. kidnapping) and she had to stop seeing Marigold. 

 

The problem is the Edith is Marigold's mother. And that while Mrs. Drewe has a husband and three other children, Edith has no one but Marigold.

Edited January 11, 2016 by statsgirl

[photo fox]

That was standard with the upper class back then. Children were raised by nannies and brought down once a day for an hour to play, and then boys were packed off to school when they were around eight, sometimes the girls too.  Tom is affectionate with Sybbie because he grew up in a lower class family.

 

Mary has rarely shown any affection to George other than to show him off but there is no doubt she prizes him.  Even the amount of time Edith spend playing with Marigold would have been looked at as unusual.

No, I totally agree! The OP said that Edith isn't "affectionate". I was just saying that - for all of Edith's many faults - I don't think lack of affection can be laid at her door. I think she's as affectionate as any mother of her time and class would be.

[Constantinople]

I hope the Drewes have fun starving to death after being kicked off the land their family has worked for over a century, all because Mr Drewe tried to save the Crawleys from further social embarrassment.

 

Carson, you've worked in this house man and boy for half a century - Lady Mary

 

Except for that interlude as a Cheerful Charlie.

 

And if he worked there as a boy, why was his Cheerful Charlie past such a surprise to everyone in Season 1?

[magdalene]

I hope the Drewes have fun starving to death after being kicked off the land their family has worked for over a century, all because Mr Drewe tried to save the Crawleys from further social embarrassment.

 

Carson, you've worked in this house man and boy for half a century - Lady Mary

 

Except for that interlude as a Cheerful Charlie.

 

And if he worked there as a boy, why was his Cheerful Charlie past such a surprise to everyone in Season 1?

It seems the writing fairy made an oopsie and didn't consult the continuity fairy.

[Crs97]

Lol @ Mary's "But whose going to take me and George home?" when she learned Marigold was missing. Oh, Mary.

Actually, when Mary asked what the matter was, Anna said they had thought Marigold was missing but found out Mrs. Drewe had taken her home as a favor. So all Mary knew was that Marigold was fine.

If Daisy hates the system so much, she should quit on principle since her work is helping perpetuate their lifestyle. I really dislike when people rail against someone and then start asking them for favors. Of course Cora was already packing up the Drewes and moving Mr. Mason in. No good deed goes unpunished.

I can see both sides of the hospital argument, but am annoyed that they seem to be shoving "local hospital is bad and Violet is evil for wanting to keep control" down our throats. Maybe consolidation is best, but there is a better argument for local control than "What, you think I'm a bad doctor?" Another storyline that Julian is botching.

[sark1624]

Edith decided take Marigold because Violet and Rosamound wanted send the girl to France to some type of boarding school where with lucky she could visited her 1 o 2 times in the year and without telling anybody who she really was. So, if Edith didnt take Marigold Violet or Rosamould would have taken, 

Edited January 11, 2016 by sark1624

[rur]

Lol @ Mary's "But whose going to take me and George home?" when she learned Marigold was missing.  Oh, Mary.

 

IMO, That line summed up Mary's interests and her character. 

[LittleIggy]

Okay, you peasants, uproot your entire life because in inconveniences the Crowleys! Geeze...

I like that Cora understands that Mrs. Hughes wants her wedding to be hers not a gift from the Abbey.

[whatsatool]

Who was the doctor that everyone died under on the earlier episodes? I forget.

[CeeBeeGee]

I loved Edith and Mary's shared look of mortification when Lord G offered to decorate the Servants' Hall. I love it whenever they have a moment together and aren't sniping.

 

It's official--Anna and Lady Mary are my heterosexual OTP. LOVE them together! Mary was awesome to help her out. They really have such a great mutual respect.

 

I could see that the Drewes weren't long for this world as soon as they entered the stage while Daisy and Cora were talking about trying to find a solution. Obviously Mr. Mason will be taking over that tenancy. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Still LMAO at the looks Mary and Edith gave Robert.

When he talked about decorating the servant's dungeon for the Hughes-Carson wedding.

[helenamonster]

Fuck Edith. Fuck her so hard. Was kidnapping Marigold excessive on Mrs. Drewe's part? Absolutely. But her lack of compassion for this woman (and, more specifically, what Edith put her through) is astounding. Edith has to remember the yearning that she felt when she couldn't raise Marigold herself. Well guess what, you piece of shit. Mrs. Drewe feels the same way. So now the Drewes have to uproot their entire lives all because Edith can't think a plan all the way through. If I wasn't totally done with her before, I am now. She could fall in front of a moving train for all I care. God she is the fucking WORST.

 

The only storyline I would like to see Edith involved in at this point would be her and Mary acknowledging that they're both having the similar problem of men having trouble accepting their superior positions to them. That is it. Otherwise just shut her up in the attic or lock her in her dumb London flat, I don't care. I am finished with her nonsense.

 

Meanwhile, I'm over here just loving Mary, which is absolutely bonkers because I loathed her pretty much since the first episode, when she moaned about having to go into full mourning. But her one saving grace has always been her friendship with Anna. There were times when I felt the relationship was a little too one-sided (which is fair, given that Anna is Mary's servant/employee) but it was so great tonight to hear her acknowledge everything that Anna has done for her and wanting to help out herself. Most importantly, she's helped Anna get back to her perky, plucky self, which is awesome. And I guess the discussion from last week is settled: Anna was having miscarriages. But the doctor said that her condition (I totally forget what it was called, something about her cervix not being able to support the weight of the fetus) would come into play around 3-4 months along. If she was having miscarriages at 3 or 4 months, wouldn't she have needed to take time off work? Go to the hospital? I mean the only source I have for this is the miscarriage my mother had at 3 months which I was not around for but by her description sounded positively brutal, a lot more than a heavy period. Or is this just Fellowes not understanding how the female reproductive system works? Whatever, hopefully it gets corrected. Also, a side note, but I love how British people say "in hospital" as opposed to the American "in the hospital." Idk why. I just do.

 

The Carson/Mrs. Hughes argument over where to hold their reception actually holds true to their characters, imo. Carson has always loved Downton and loved serving the Crawleys. His fondness for Lady Mary has never wavered and if she wanted him to have the reception at the house, he'd do everything he could to make it happen. Meanwhile, Mrs. Hughes has always only seen Downton as her place of employment and the Crawleys as her employers, and she doesn't want to get married at the same place that she works, just as I assume most of us wouldn't want to get married at the office/store/restaurant/etc. where we work. I'm not sure exactly what kind of happy medium they could find, but if I had to guess I would say the reception will take place at Downton because, well, this is Downton Abbey and that's where most of the milestone events should probably take place.

[blackwing]

I hated everything about this episode. It was slow, boring, and depressing.

Sad sack Thomas is worried he is getting fired. He interviews for another position and finds out it requires a lot of work. He scoffs at it. Boo hoo hoo.

Sad sack Daisy is worried she caused trouble for Mr. Mason. Well, DUH. She spends the entire episode trying to get Cora to help her. Boo hoo hoo.

Anna and Bates.... whatevs. We all know this is the last season, so they are probably going to drag out this "I can't have a baby" storyline all season and then in the finale they will miraculously find out they are having one.

I loathe Edith. Poor Mrs. Drewe. Edith is a cold hearted snake. After the Drewes move out I so want someone to anonymously send a letter to wherever that blackmail girl from last week was going to go. My one wish for this season is that it ends with Edith unhappy.

Carson and Mrs. Hughes don't want the wedding to be at Downton... I was thinking about it so much and zzzzzzzzzzzz.

They managed to make even the snipfest between Violet and Isobel boring.

Hope next week is better.

[Constantinople]

Isobel Crawley: If a family at the Abbey has a cut finger, they go to London, but what about everyone else? I bet you'd go to London too.

Lord Grey: (laughing) I probably would, but I shouldn't have to.

 

Generally, as the embodiment of modernizing, middle class busybodidom, Isobel is made to look a little unreasonable or strident, or both.  But in this case her and Lord Grey's point is reinforced when Mary takes Anna to see Mary's doctor, in London.

 

Not that having a London specialist did Lady Sybil any good.

 

Anyway, I look forward to Bates and Anna raising their son Norman.

[ZoloftBlob]

Anna's issue was called cervical incompetence. Its a real thing but I couldn't find any indication of whether it was curable back in the day