S06.E02: Season 6, Episode 2

[Lillybee]

I agree with Mrs, Hughes, I wouldn't want to be married in a place that viewed me as a servant. Hell, she would have been in charge of cleaning the Hall.

 

Thomas really needs to think about leaving service and apply for other jobs. For example, I could see him working as a Maitre'd of a very tony restaurant.

 

Why does Anna refer to her husband as Mr. Bates even when they are alone?  Does he even have a first name?

[AndreaK1041]

I have loved both episodes this season, and is it just me or is the costuming even more wonderful than normal? Jumping out at me were Mary's undergarments/robe, Cora's dress for dinner when she was in the bedroom with Robert, and Edith's hat in London. Not to mention the luxurious spotted pig fur, those were some fine pigs.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

IMO, Mrs Hughes is acting like a reverse snob...not wanting the main hall of the Abbey for the reception. The Crawleys should have called it a "wedding gift" to her and Carson, since both have given many years of service to the family.

 

Mrs Hughes and Carson have become used to acting high and mighty in their important jobs. I wonder if they can relax and accept each other as equals once they are married.

 

Have Mr and Mrs Bates really thought through what would happen if they started having children? Seems to me that Mrs Bates would need to quit as a Lady's maid, since she could not take care of a baby and be at the beck and call of Lady Mary, especially for traveling.  And I doubt that the Bates child would be allowed to join the other Abbey children with their Nanny in the nursery.

 

Marigold is such a lackadaisical child. She acts weak and undernourished for her age.She doesn't seem bright and curious, for the most part. I wonder if she is handicapped or has "failed to thrive," to use that medical term.

 

Lord Merton is wonderful. I'd marry him in a shot! Isobel and Violet act rather superior and rude to him.

Edited January 11, 2016 by P3pp3rb1rd

[caligirl50]

I liked this episode so much better than the first.  

 

I think what everyone is talking about with Mrs. Drewe are the things that she said to her husband when he went into the house to talk to her.  "She was bored." No one was paying attention to her." "They ignore her."  That last one I made up. I cannot remember the other thing she said but clearly it was in her own head.  In addition, her taking the child home and not telling anyone is clearly wrong.  If she went over to say hi and was playing with her in front of the family, that would be one thing.  But keeping her distance (yes I know she is a servant) and then taking her from her mother is just off.

 

I am a big Mary fan but her comment at the pig event when told they were taking the car to the farm to get Marigold, "How will we get home?" with a look on her face like she was up to no good, and made me wonder if it wasn't just Mrs. Drewe's doing.  Otherwise, I thought she was lovely in this episode (and her dress at the breakfast table was awesome).

 

Glad that Cora has more to do in this season...so far anyway.  I hope she gets into a big fight with Violet.  She's got it in her.  She fought with Isobel about the house in season 2 as well as Violet when DA was to made into a convalescent home.  Go Cora. In addition, she was sweet with Daisy when they were talking in the drawing room.

 

We'll see with Thomas.  The butler at the interview was a douche.  Maybe Thomas has a reputation?  Who knows.

[kristabell]

I liked the pace of this episode because it reminds me of what I really liked about Season 1: the feeling that you are looking in on these peoples' lives for an hour. That sort of slow, lazy pace suits the show imo, and really shows off the costumes and sets.

 

On the other hand, after feeling sorry for her for four seasons or so, I LOATHE Edith on a scale not measurable by human means. Do I understand that she wants her child, and to a certain extent she was a victim of social mores? Yes. But I feel about 10,000x worse for Mrs. Drewe.

 

The way Edith treated the Drewe family is just the most obvious way in which the entire Crawley family / elites in general steamroll over everyone else and as long as they end up looking crisp and pretty at the end, no one else matters. I can't stand it and I can't stand Edith. I agree with the poster upthread who said that Edith could have at least had a mother to mother talk with Mrs. Drewe and empathized with the emotions Mrs. Drewe has. What Edith expected of the Drewes was completely unreasonable. And now I assume they will be shuffled off to some other tenancy so their presence won't disturb the family. Gag me.

 

Most of the storyline could have been made better if Mrs. Drewe had any agency in actually agreeing to it. Had she known Marigold (and seriously I still can't deal with that name) was Edith's, she may have behaved differently and probably would have put up some emotional walls so she wouldn't bond with the child too much. But, as far as she knew, this would be her child permanently. (And, as another poster upthread said, maybe Mrs. Drewe lost a child recently. Maybe she'd always wanted a daughter. But of course, she can't get a pov because she's only a cog in the machine.) Edith using her as a babysitting service is despicable. ANd

 

I agree that Mrs. Drewe behaved on guard with Edith from the beginning, and I think that would be the normal reaction. She knows she has no claim to anything and no recourse if one of the members of the Crawley family wanted to do something or take something from her. I'm sure she was nervous from the start that Edith had taken too much to Marigold. Seriously, in the scenes where Edith visits, she doesn't even make eye contact with the Drewes' other children. I would have been on my guard with her too.

[Andorra]

I hated Edith in this episode. How cold she reacted when Robert told her that the Drewes would move away?? She is the one responsible for this whole mess! She is responsible for the depression Mrs Drewe obviously developed and she has not one single thought for them, but only for herself as usual. Cold hearted and selfish and a huge sense of entitlement.No excuses. 

 

In contrast to that: I thought Mary was lovely in this episode. I loved it that she took the children with her "to see the pigs". People always assume she never does anything with George. I also loved the little moment, when everyone ran away at the pig show and she turned to George who was sitting on her arm and said: "And how will we get home, hm?"

 

Carson is the biggest idiot in the world, but that's nothing new. Why can't he say the truth? Either to Mrs Hughes "I feel flattered to marry at the Abbey" or to Mary "Mrs Hughes prefers to marry somewhere else"?

Edited January 11, 2016 by Andorra

[Roseanna]

Carson is the biggest idiot in the world, but that's nothing new. Why can't he say the truth? Either to Mrs Hughes "I feel flattered to marry at the Abbey" or to Mary "Mrs Hughes prefers to marry somewhere else"?

 

Of course Carson can't say the truth to Lady Mary. He is her servant - and what's more, he has a servant's soul. Whatever Lady Mary wants is right, nothing else matters. He probably likes to married in Downton, but even if he doesn't, he would never say it.

 

As for Mrs Hughes, she knows him, so she knows the truth without him saying it.

 

Basically the crux of question is that Carson puts pleasing Lady Mary higher than pleasing his future wife. Not a good beginning to a marriage.

[Andorra]

Of course Carson can't say the truth to Lady Mary. He is her servant - 

 

Sorry, I don't see it. He has said much more unpleasant things to her than "I'm sorry Milady, but Mrs Hughes prefers to have the reception in the village".

 

 

Whatever Lady Mary wants is right, nothing else matters. He probably likes to married in Downton, but even if he doesn't, he would never say it.

 

Just as I said: Idiot. 

[mightycrone]

Mr. Bates to Anna, about her "shopping" trip with Lady Mary:  "I hope you get a chance to put your feet up."

 

Anna:  "Yes, my feet will be up."  

 

Now, that's funny.  Nothing like a little stirrup humor to stir things up.  

[mbutterfly]

Move. The Plot. Forward. I want Shonda Rhimes to come in a guest-write just one episode of this show so something will actually happen.

 

Where Carson and Mrs. Hughes should hold their wedding? Not worthy of a multi-episode arc. Where Mr. Mason moves? Not worthy of a multi-episode arc. If Thomas is friends with Andy? Not worthy of even a single episode if they aren't going to explain what's going on. Seriously, what's with that? Are they redoing the Thomas and Jimmy plot, where Thomas has an unrequited crush on another servant? It's recycling a plot no one much liked the first time, and therefore TOTALLY in character for Julian Fellowes. Is that what they're doing? Does Thomas think Andy's gay? Does he like him That Way? And what's Andy's deal? Does he know Thomas is gay? Think Thomas is after him? Being careerist? I can't even tell and that makes the whole thing pointless.

 

As for the Drewe family plotline, I'm glad that's over with even as it was terrible. OF COURSE Mrs. Drewe is crazy, meaning nothing about this is Edith's fault God forbid a Crawley ever suffer a consequence, no matter how badly they screw up. Edith handled the whole thing terribly, but it doesn't matter because Mrs. Drewe is worse, thereby absolving Edith of all blame. I suppose next episode there will be a throwaway line about how happy the Drewes are in their new tenancy and we'll never have to hear about any of this again, thank God.

 

And does anyone, even one person, care about the damn hospital? Why does Julian Fellowes believe having Violet and Isobel fighting is such a big draw? No one watches this show for a snark-off between old ladies who have nothing to do with any ongoing storyline. This isn't The Golden Girls

I'm with you until this. These two old ladies are favorites of many people who watch.

[Roseanna]

Sorry, I don't see it. He has said much more unpleasant things to her than "I'm sorry Milady, but Mrs Hughes prefers to have the reception in the village".

 

Yes, Carson told Lady Mary the unpleasant truth that she should stop her obsessive mourning and began to work, but it was for her own good. But Carson has never said anything where he would put anybody else's needs before those of lady Mary and the Crawley family. And of course he generally couldn't have for the servants job is to serve. 

 

But the wedding was an important private matter, and even Lady Mary understood in S1 that William should see her mother before she died. So Carson had no cause to be afraid that the Crawley family wouldn't have understood and accepted Mrs Hughes' POV if he only had dared to tell it, although in order to convince Lady Mary he should say out of loyalty towards his bride "we prefer".

[JudyObscure]

Who was the doctor that everyone died under on the earlier episodes? I forget.

Some Sir Muckity Muck with whom Lord Grantham was overly impressed. If they had listened to our local doc, Sybil would still be alive. Of course they've all forgotten that small detail.

The whole episode I was like, "What the Hell, Dude?"

Mr. Drewe tried to save the Downton family from disgrace and is rewarded with losing the farm his own family has worked for generations. Not to mention his wife has lost her mind.

Mary was kind to Anna and went a bit out of her way for her, but if a boss seeing that the employees get proper medical care makes them a saint, so is Walmart.

I can't give Mary too much credit after an episode where she bulldozed right over Carson and Mrs. Hughes. It shouldn't be that hard to imagine that what was comfortable for her might not be the right thing for them. I was shipping their romance until now. After Carson put The Blessed Lady Mary's desires above Elsie's, I'm hoping she calls the whole thing off.

Carson is mean to Thomas the same way he was mean to Mosley. I don't know if Thomas's remark to Mrs. Patmore meant he was only being friendly or that his gaydar has pinged some faint response from the new guy. I want Thomas to find happiness, evil past or not.

I don't know if Edith is unsympathetic to Mrs. Drewe or was just so shook up from the missing -Marigold event that all she could do was clutch her in the car. I would love for Edith to go talk to her with sympathy, but I'm sure she remembers how much hatred Mrs. Drewe has for her, the physical attack and the torn-up birth certificate weren't that long ago.

I sort of hate that Daisy is going to get her whiney way at the Drewe's expense. It would serve her right if Mr. Mason said he had found semi-retirement plans at the seaside.

The back of Mary's hair makes my scissor's fingers twitch.

[Haleth]

I knew as soon as we saw the Drewes again that there would be trouble and they'd be clearing out (conveniently) to make room for Mr Mason.  This isn't a spoiler, I have no idea what is really going to happen, but I betcha that's where it's going.  The Drewes and Mr Mason will switch places and everything will be hunky dory, except for the atrocious writing.  What a terrible way to write Mrs Drewe, as a crazy woman who has to be removed (with her whole family) in order to protect Edith.  Not Marigold, Edith.  A better solution would have been to let the Drewes stay at their home and Edith take Marigold to live in London.  Again, not a spoiler but isn't that where Edith's storyline is going anyway?  Isn't that why she kept the flat and is getting more involved with the newspaper?  Instead we have a perfectly charming family uprooted from their long time home for nothing.

I'm happy Anna found a possible way to carry a baby.  The "put her feet up" comment was funny and it was good to hear Anna make a joke of it.

 

Have Mr and Mrs Bates really thought through what would happen if they started having children? Seems to me that Mrs Bates would need to quit as a Lady's maid, since she could not take care of a baby and be at the beck and call of Lady Mary, especially for traveling.  And I doubt that the Bates child would be allowed to join the other Abbey children with their Nanny in the nursery.

 

Didn't they talk about opening an inn?  I think they are probably financial stable enough for Anna to quit working.  Even with medical intervention she'll probably have to quit working to carry the baby to full term.

I agree with Mrs, Hughes, I wouldn't want to be married in a place that viewed me as a servant. Hell, she would have been in charge of cleaning the Hall.

 

So true!

Edited January 11, 2016 by Haleth

[Roseanna]

On the other hand, after feeling sorry for her for four seasons or so, I LOATHE Edith on a scale not measurable by human means. Do I understand that she wants her child, and to a certain extent she was a victim of social mores? Yes. But I feel about 10,000x worse for Mrs. Drewe.

 

The way Edith treated the Drewe family is just the most obvious way in which the entire Crawley family / elites in general steamroll over everyone else and as long as they end up looking crisp and pretty at the end, no one else matters. I can't stand it and I can't stand Edith. I agree with the poster upthread who said that Edith could have at least had a mother to mother talk with Mrs. Drewe and empathized with the emotions Mrs. Drewe has. What Edith expected of the Drewes was completely unreasonable. And now I assume they will be shuffled off to some other tenancy so their presence won't disturb the family. Gag me.

 

Most of the storyline could have been made better if Mrs. Drewe had any agency in actually agreeing to it. Had she known Marigold (and seriously I still can't deal with that name) was Edith's, she may have behaved differently and probably would have put up some emotional walls so she wouldn't bond with the child too much.

 

 

I agree that it would have been a sensible thing to do to tell Mrs Drewe that she would care of Marigold only a few years. And that's what were done in similar cases irl. When the child was old enough to begin education, she could be presented as a "ward" and fewer people remembered what had happened years ago.

 

But would it really a better storyline? There would be no secret and therefore no great problems and eventually the great crisis and the great fight.

 

I think that is again a case where Fellowes's aims were opposed by today's knowledge and values. He probably wanted to show how Edith loves her daughter so much that one by one she dares to make decisions without being afraid of the society's prejudices. But he forgot that on the basis what we today know of the child psychology: it was harmful to *Marigold* to change her home and caretaker several times.

 

On the other hand, it's not at all a bad thing in the show that a character is hated and loathed. The worst thing would be a character that doesn't raise any special feelings in the audience.

[ShadowFacts]

Does an elder dairy farmer adapt easily to taking over a pig farm?  I don't know, my grandfather raised both so probably not terribly different, but Mr. Drewe has been shown to be an amazingly successful pig farmer.  This is just a tad too convenient, and it is totally bogus that the Drewes should be run off the land the family has worked for over 100 years because Edith (where was the nanny?) can't keep eyes on her child.  I've been kind of sympathetic to Edith at times, but no more.  And I'm frankly tired of the whole psychodrama around Edith and Marigold but I'm gritting my teeth for more because Mary has yet to figure out what's right in front of her face. 

 

Carson is mean to Thomas the same way he was mean to Mosley. I don't know if Thomas's remark to Mrs. Patmore meant he was only being friendly or that his gaydar has pinged some faint response from the new guy. I want Thomas to find happiness, evil past or not.

 

 

 

Yes, I do, too.  My impression is he's just trying to be helpful to the new guy and the new guy either doesn't want to encourage his attention or is busy playing everything you can do, I can do better, but I'm beginning to cringe at how shitty Thomas is being treated.   Carson is being an ass (run Mrs. Hughes), the interviewer was rude, and the new guy is dismissive.  Thomas is trying to be helpful, taking the initiative to find a new job, being kind to children.  I agree he could work nicely in a fine hotel or something similar.  He should network with Alfred in London. 

[lookeyloo]

Anna's issue was called cervical incompetence. Its a real thing but I couldn't find any indication of whether it was curable back in the day

My mother had this when she was pregnant with my brother in 1952. She started bleeding at about 3 months and they put her on bedrest for the duration.  She stayed on the couch in the living room.  Bedpan included.  My grandpa came to help my father take care of us.  They didn't talk much about it, except that it was hard on us all.  One day when she was around 9 months along, around thanksgiving, she got up and took a shower. And then went into labor and my brother was born on Thanksgiving of that year.  Many years later she told me that she had an "incompetent os" and now (then) they would stitch it closed.  So don't know about the wayback times of Anna.

Edited January 11, 2016 by lookeyloo

[TaraS1]

How long did the Drewes actually have Marigold originally?  Months, years?  Granted, I don't have kids, but I just find Mrs. Drewe's obsessive attachment to this one dull, homely child kind of baffling.  Particularly since she has other children to care for and love.  That being said, I'm still on the Drewes side against Edith and her endless simpering.

[pasdetrois]

 

I hated everything about this episode. It was slow, boring, and depressing.

I'm with you. I've started recording the episodes so I can fast forward past the boring or predictable or annoying bits: Edith/Mrs. Drewe/Marigold tearjerker (predictable and annoying); Anna woe-is-me melodrama (predictable and annoying); impertinent Daisy (annoying); hospital snits: boring. Which left me with little to view last night. Well, the clothes and the pigs were very fine.

 

I understand that times were changing and everyone was stressed, but clunky scriptwriting isn't the way to tell that story.

[Crs97]

Regarding Edith and the magazine, her editor is a complete jerk, but I understood his point.  What they have shown us so far is that she sits in Downton, calls him with "suggestions," and considers having to travel to London to have a face-to-face meeting "a nuisance."  I can't imagine trying to work for someone who doesn't have the experience to manage the company and can't be bothered to show up and learn the craft, but gets upset when his ideas aren't used.  I would think that if you inherit an ongoing magazine and want an active role in it, you should move to London and be there everyday to learn all the ins and outs of it, not just dash off a note or phone call between luncheons and farm festivals.

[PRgal]

IMO, Mrs Hughes is acting like a reverse snob...not wanting the main hall of the Abbey for the reception. The Crawleys should have called it a "wedding gift" to her and Carson, since both have given many years of service to the family.

 

Marigold is such a lackadaisical child. She acts weak and undernourished for her age.She doesn't seem bright and curious, for the most part. I wonder if she is r*******.

 

There are ALWAYS people like Mrs. Hughes (acting like a "reverse snob")  and for those reasons, it is why many people I know do things often referred to as "slumming" because they don't want others to know about their more privileged upbringing.  Or they just don't talk about their background much. 

 

On Marigold:  Isn't that some sort of "rule" on TV?  That the child that isn't the oldest/cutest has no lines/acts weak/etc?  This was the case for both Bobby and Gene on Mad Men (Gene, especially.  The child said NOTHING, even in the final season when he was probably 5-ish). 

 

As for Anna's fertility issues:  According to Wikipedia, the main treatment is still stitches (the procedure the London doctor referred to last night).  They are testing an insertable device that is to be removed close to due date.  I'm wondering if they're going to delve deeper into how fertility issues were handled in the 20s, though.  We know so much more and there are many more treatments today. 

Edited January 11, 2016 by PRgal

[Llywela]

I don't think Mrs Hughes can be called a 'reverse snob' for not wanting to get married in her workplace. I wouldn't want to get married in mine! Surely a bride's wedding day is the one day of her life where she gets to choose what she wants, not what suits others.

[Avaleigh]

I believe that there was something very wrong with Mrs Drewe. She became at once strangely obsessive with Marigold although she already had three sons of her own. She also never thought how Edith's interest in Marigold could benefit the girl in the future - Edith could f.ex. pay for her education. Or maybe she was afraid of just that for it could raise Marigold socially and culturally higher than her - and she wanted *own* her totally.

Of course Edith was selfish to want to her child back - but what mother couldn't be? But Mrs Drewe was just as selfish and because she refused Edith to be a part of Marigold's life, she lost the girl completely as Edith as a mother had a legal right on her side. It's ridiculous to demand that Edith who had just heard that Marigold's father had died could have thought about anything or anybody but to have their child back in her custody.

If Edith hadn't been "selfish", she would have be a complete doormat who would let there people direct her life.

Edith is to blame for why she's in the situation with the Drewes in the first place. Those were her choices. She didn't have to involve them at all. She chose to do that because she didn't want to deal with the full consequences of other decisions that she made. This is all on top of her not having any sympathy whatsoever for Mrs. Drewe well before the kidnapping. Not only was Edith selfish but she was incredibly insensitive to boot. Meanwhile she's a character who wants nonstop sympathy because she almost always sees herself as a victim.

 

I've lost all sympathy for Edith. I always thought Mary was the self centered one.  She has nothing on Edith, who does nothing but complain about her single status, her empty flat, her "oh woe is me, why don't I have a life" etc, etc.  I suppose now Fellowes will give her a happy ending.  Marigold doesn't look at all happy with Edith.  Mrs Drewe seems to have more affection for that child than Edith has ever shown.  Edith seems obsessive rather than affectionate. And now she has cost the tenants their livelihood.  

 

I would have second thoughts if I were Mrs Hughes.  Carson is being incredibly insensitive to her wishes.   

 The lack of sympathy Edith has for the Drewes after she dragged them into her mess is what's driving me nuts. These people took care of her baby for a year and Edith doesn't care that she has forever disrupted their lives in multiple ways. She feels entitled it's as simple as that IMO. They were on her parents land, she saw them as a solution, she used them, when she didn't need to use them anymore, they were discarded. The whole incident left a bad taste in my mouth. Even if you take the Marigold part out of the equation you have an Edith who made it clear that she didn't care if Mrs. Drewe thought that she, Edith, was interested in Mr. Drewe romantically. 

 

But it's like the audience is supposed to forget about all of that and simply be happy because Edith got her baby back. I'm happy that Marigold is going to be with a family who loves her and that she'll have more opportunities with the Crawleys than with the Drewes but Edith as a character just makes me roll my eyes in frustration especially when I think of how what a self righteous victim she's usually making herself out to be. 

 

What I wished was for Edith to acknowledge (even briefly) that from a mother's pov, she could understand why Mrs. Drewe couldn't let Marigold go.  She certainly didn't have to, but it would have made Edith look more mature and forgiving, as well as wrapping up this plotline in a more satisfying fashion.  Mr. Drewe was spot on: none of them considered the emotional fallout of this arrangement.  Marigold is a person, not a toy to be traded back and forth.  I hate that Mrs. Drewe is looked at as a potential problem on Edith and Marigold's route to happiness, rather than a grieving mother who has lost something the meant the world to her.  At least Robert realized that this situation isn't open and shut.

 

So much of this. Even Robert gets it on some level. It drives me nuts that Edith is written as being that selfish and unsympathetic. How am I expected to be sorry for this person and wish her future happiness? There isn't anything in me that is rooting for her at this point.  

Edited January 11, 2016 by Avaleigh

[Ina123]

Mrs. Hughes, stand your ground. It's your wedding.

 

Marigold. (like someone above said, I hate that name). Besides why in the world would Edith want her child's name to have "Mary" in it?

 

They appear to be trying to rehabilitate Thomas. I, on the other hand, cannot forget all his despicable acts, all the way back to knocking Bates' cane out of his hand causing him to fall. I believe that was almost Bates' first day.

 

I, for one, tune in every week for the Isobelle and Dowager segment. Love the trading of barbs. Well, actually, any scene with the Dowager is my cup o' tea.

[Roseanna]

Regarding Edith and the magazine, her editor is a complete jerk, but I understood his point.  What they have shown us so far is that she sits in Downton, calls him with "suggestions," and considers having to travel to London to have a face-to-face meeting "a nuisance."  I can't imagine trying to work for someone who doesn't have the experience to manage the company and can't be bothered to show up and learn the craft, but gets upset when his ideas aren't used.  I would think that if you inherit an ongoing magazine and want an active role in it, you should move to London and be there everyday to learn all the ins and outs of it, not just dash off a note or phone call between luncheons and farm festivals.

 

All this can be true.

 

However, what we have so far been told in the show, the editor can't stand Edith simply because as a woman she can't have competence.

 

Before all, even if the editor is right in that Edith's suggestions are bad, nobody in full his senses would shout at his employer who pays his fare and can fire him.

[abbyzenn]

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks Edith is horrid.  Surprisingly Robert was the only one that showed compassion for the Drewes - even Cora wanted them gone and made some nasty remark in the car along with Edith.  If I was Mrs. Drewe, on my way out of town I would have posted a notice on the post office window as to why I was being forced to leave and the truth about Marigold..

 

  I thought Mary was being very kind when she said how nice it would be for Mrs. Drewe to see marigold at the pig farm.  But whiny Edith of course only feared about Mary finding out her secret which really what does she think Mary will do?

 

Only Edith could be handed a magazine and an apartment and still be whiny and oh is me.  Gregson worked full time at the magazine why doesn't she -- I don't blame the guy for being resentful of this woman who only drops in every now and then and complains.

 

Love when the show goes to locations outside of the house.

[Crs97]

However, what we have so far been told in the show, the editor can't stand Edith simply because as a woman she can't have competence.

Well, that is what Edith said his problem is, but right now her credibility is low with me. Words I could make out in their fight were "between your hair appointments," which suggested her inconsistent appearances at the magazine could be his problem. But as I said at the beginning, he is being a complete jerk about it all.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Crs97

[Roseanna]

There are ALWAYS people like Mrs. Hughes (acting like a "reverse snob")  and for those reasons, it is why many people I know do things often referred to as "slumming" because they don't want others to know about their more privileged upbringing.  Or they just don't talk about their background much. 

 

 

Sybil may be called "a reverse snob" in Dublin where she was known as Mrs Branson and not Lady Sybil Branson although I think she had every right to do it as in probably made her socializing with other people easier, especially as the Irish at the time hated the English.

 

But the term can't be applied to Mrs Hughes whose background isn't privileged and all know it. She simply wants wedding where she can feel herself comfortable, as well as *all* guests.

 

Surely a wedding is a matter where it's the bride and groom who solely decide (having even no parents), not their employers.

[missmontyp]

I Believe it was O'Brien who knocked Bates down, not Thomas, when the Duke came to visit.  Also there is a daughter in the Drewe family.  When Edith came to visit Marigold and has tea with the family there are two boys and a girl at the table having tea while Edith has Marigold on her knee.  I have not gone back to check this episode but I am almost positive one of the children was a girl.

 

To give Edith a little credit, although I agree with most of you that she has been very selfish about the Drewe's leaving their home, she wanted Drewe to tell his wife that Marigold was the daughter of her friend and that she, Edith had an interest in her, and that she was paying them for keeping Marigold.  Instead, Drewe made the mistake of telling his wife that the child was totally alone (his friend and the mother were dead) and I did not hear him mention money to her, so his wife naturally thought that was the end of it and she would have Marigold forever.  

 

I believe if Margie had been told that Marigold was connected to Edith and her "friend" from the start she would have thought differently, especially given the times.

 

[proserpina65]

Run, Mrs. Hughes, run!  If you marry Mr. Carson, you'll spend the entire rest of your life doing what Lady Mary wants.  Poor woman can't even have her wedding party someplace besides Downton.

 

Okay, here's the solution for the Drewes/Mason issues: have the Drewes move to mean new owner's estate and Mr. Mason can take over as stockman at Downton.  Problem solved.  (Okay, more reasonable solution is for Edith to move to London with Marigold, therefore Mrs. Drewe would never see the child, but that would be too logical for Julian Fellowes.)  I'm pretty tired of that whole storyline, but I have to say that Edith is looking fab.

 

I hope the medical procedure will work for Anna.  I really want her and Mr. Bates to finally get to be happy.

 

Oh, and Thomas, maybe he's just not into you.  Even if he is closeted, it's possible that he just doesn't like YOU.

[ZoloftBlob]

How long did the Drewes actually have Marigold originally?  Months, years?

 

At least a year. Time enough for some attachment especially since they were told it was a permanent situation

[Constantinople]

Regarding Edith and the magazine, her editor is a complete jerk, but I understood his point.  What they have shown us so far is that she sits in Downton, calls him with "suggestions," and considers having to travel to London to have a face-to-face meeting "a nuisance."  I can't imagine trying to work for someone who doesn't have the experience to manage the company and can't be bothered to show up and learn the craft, but gets upset when his ideas aren't used.  I would think that if you inherit an ongoing magazine and want an active role in it, you should move to London and be there everyday to learn all the ins and outs of it, not just dash off a note or phone call between luncheons and farm festivals.

 

 

All this can be true.

 

However, what we have so far been told in the show, the editor can't stand Edith simply because as a woman she can't have competence.

I believe what we have been told is that it is Edith's opinion that the editor can't stand her because she's a woman. Edith may be right, but she's not exactly an unbiased source. Edith also often shows a lack of self-awareness or total indifference to how her behavior affects others.

That said, I think the show is trying to set-up some kind of parallel between Mary and Edith and the difficulties they face of being a woman in a man's world. But as Crs97 pointed out, Edith is being a bit of a dilettante. At least Mary, as the Downton Abbey estate agent, can generally be found around Downton Abbey.

Now that I think about it, isn't Mary the majority owner of the estate? Or the majority owner on behalf of her son George? Shouldn't she be the one making decisions as to whether the Drewes are kept on as tenants? At the very least, as the estate agent, shouldn't she be consulted? Or did I miss that?

Edited January 11, 2016 by Constantinople

[Almost 3000]

Anna's issue was called cervical incompetence. Its a real thing but I couldn't find any indication of whether it was curable back in the day

The specialist said that they could put a stitch in her cervix at 2-3 months but she seemed to be miscarrying in the first or beginning of the second month because she hadn't even told her husband about the pregnancys yet so the stitch would be to late.

[bmoore4026]

Did Cora use Marigold in order for Daisy's father-in-law to take over the Drews farm?  She saw how Mrs. Drew acted towards Marigold and knew Mr. Drew would be entering his pigs at the fair.  Did she set-up them up knowing full well that Mrs. Drew's emotional stability would be pushed over the edge if she saw Marigold not being paid attention to?

 

That's very unCora like.  Or did I miss something?

 

That being said, I miss Lady Rose.  I know Lily James was busy with other things, but Lady Rose's absence makes things less enjoyable.

Edited January 11, 2016 by bmoore4026

[lovinbob]

How long did the Drewes actually have Marigold originally?  Months, years?  Granted, I don't have kids, but I just find Mrs. Drewe's obsessive attachment to this one dull, homely child kind of baffling.  Particularly since she has other children to care for and love.  That being said, I'm still on the Drewes side against Edith and her endless simpering.

Perhaps her attachment and grief have to do with her utter powerlessness in the situation. I understand this show as, at least superficially, examining the conflicts created by gender and class restrictions. Mrs. Drewe had no choice but to take Marigold in, and then to give her up. This explains her grief, to me.

 

I'm on Team Hughes. It would be nice if there were a way to balance their concerns and desires, but I would imagine that a Hughes-Carson wedding at the Abbey would create work for their friends, if not for the couple themselves. That Carson and Mary seem so blind to this is ridiculous.

[txhorns79]

Now that I think about it, isn't Mary the majority owner of the estate? Or the majority owner on behalf of her son George? Shouldn't she be the one making decisions as to whether the Drewes are kept on as tenants? At the very least, as the estate agent, shouldn't she be consulted? Or did I miss that?

 

Did Robert and Matthew make some kind of deal when Matthew saved Downton a few seasons ago where Matthew took majority ownership?   I don't remember.  My understanding is that George won't get any of the Estate until Robert is dead. 

[Llywela]

The specialist said that they could put a stitch in her cervix at 2-3 months but she seemed to be miscarrying in the first or beginning of the second month because she hadn't even told her husband about the pregnancys yet so the stitch would be to late.

We don't know how early or late Anna's miscarriages have been. Pregnancy couldn't be determined as easily in the 1920s as it is now - remember how long it took for Edith to get hers confirmed, trips to a London doctor and then confirmation via mail. And she had far better access to medical support than Anna. A woman might suspect, if she missed a period or two, but couldn't just pop to the chemist for a home testing kit. She'd have to wait longer to be absolutely sure (miss another month or two, start to show, etc). Anna wasn't telling Bates because it was too early to be certain, but that doesn't mean it was very early in the pregnancy, just too early for absolute confirmation without access to a pregnancy test.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Llywela

[CeeBeeGee]

I don't know if Edith is unsympathetic to Mrs. Drewe or was just so shook up from the missing -Marigold event that all she could do was clutch her in the car. I would love for Edith to go talk to her with sympathy, but I'm sure she remembers how much hatred Mrs. Drewe has for her, the physical attack and the torn-up birth certificate weren't that long ago.

 

Yeah, the seeds were laid last season for Mrs. Drewe's kidnapping of Marigold--she has always been a little weird and obsessive about Marigold. I didn't see this as clunky writing at all--this was forecast all last year.

 

They appear to be trying to rehabilitate Thomas. I, on the other hand, cannot forget all his despicable acts, all the way back to knocking Bates' cane out of his hand causing him to fall. I believe that was almost Bates' first day.

 

I don't know if they're trying to rehabilitate him but I do like it when they add shades of grey to Thomas, like when they use him to remind us how difficult it would've been to be a gay man at that time. Surely, that humiliating interview was part of that? Usually I detest Thomas, since he seems to go out of his way to be so pointlessly shitty to the Bateses, but during that interview I wanted to leap into the TV and slap that smug jerk's face.

 

However, what we have so far been told in the show, the editor can't stand Edith simply because as a woman she can't have competence.

 

Before all, even if the editor is right in that Edith's suggestions are bad, nobody in full his senses would shout at his employer who pays his fare and can fire him.

 

Yeah, I've had to supervise enough misogynistic men who resented a woman outranking them for that not to be my default assumption. Also what we could hear of that phone conversation--he was so, so nasty--that definitely sounds like a certain kind of dinosaur. And yes, he should be fired for foolishness and insubordination, if for nothing else.

[Crs97]

I am almost positive Thomas knocked down Mr. Bates, but with O'Brien's complete approval. They were planning how to oust Bates from the house.

I am struck with how much like Violet Mary is. I am sure she thinks the initial hesitation from Mrs. Hughes was due to the servants' hall being offered. She is thinking the best way to show the family's appreciation to the two of them is by opening their home for the wedding and giving them the choice of rooms, including the grand hall. I think Mary thinks of Carson like family, but she is used to ordering, not asking. Sometimes it works. Let's face it, if she hadn't ordered Anna to London, Anna would still be crying in the closets. Sometimes it doesn't, like here. She said to leave Mrs. Hughes up to her; that is the exchange I hope to see.

If I were Mr. Bates, I would be angry that my wife kept telling me how I would feel or think about adoption. I don't want to say "murderously angry," but . . .

[Spunkygal]

I am also bored with the hospital kerfuffel, but I wonder if a medical emergency is going to bring it all to a head? Maybe something that the local hospital has difficulty treating or diagnosing?

[JudyObscure]

Yes, Constantinople, I'm eagerly awaiting Mary's reaction when she finds out her prize winning pigman has been turned out for reasons that will make no sense to her at all.

At least a year. Time enough for some attachment especially since they were told it was a permanent situation.

As someone who suffers from instant-bonding (don't ask me to babysit,) I can easily understand Mrs. Drewe loving Marigold, possibly, even more than she loves her other children. Her other children were close together and she would have been quite over worked with laundry and chores while they were coming fast. Now they seem to be out running wild with each other most of the time, and suddenly she's alone -- with a sweet "motherless," child who is softly clinging and needy. Who wouldn't love her to death?

Surely a wedding is a matter where it's the bride and groom who solely decide (having even no parents), not their employers.

I'm glad you said "bride and groom" because I kind of thought Mrs. Hughes's statement about the wedding being the bride's day was a little modern. I didn't hear that concept until recent years, in fact to some extent as it said on the invitations, it was the day the parents threw a big party to celebrate their daughter's wedding after the sacrament had been performed in the church and they had more actual input than the bride.





[ShadowFacts]

 

Now that I think about it, isn't Mary the majority owner of the estate? Or the majority owner on behalf of her son George? Shouldn't she be the one making decisions as to whether the Drewes are kept on as tenants? At the very least, as the estate agent, shouldn't she be consulted? Or did I miss that?

That is a really good point.  She should have been consulted.  She has been a very big fan of Tim Drew and his successes with the pigs.  She would want to know what the reasoning was behind him moving, at the very least.  She would probably want to persuade him to stay.  Maybe this is how she finally figures out who Marigold really is (I am spoiler-free). 

 

 

I'm on Team Hughes. It would be nice if there were a way to balance their concerns and desires, but I would imagine that a Hughes-Carson wedding at the Abbey would create work for their friends, if not for the couple themselves. That Carson and Mary seem so blind to this is ridiculous.

Mrs. Hughes said something to the effect of "We both know you're going to have your way for the next 30 years, why can't I have my one day?"  That says it all, she knows what it's going to be like with that pompous ass, she doesn't feel like having her reception at the Abbey, and couldn't he please put her desires in front of Mary's?  I will have to suppress a gag if at the end of the wedding, she says to him he was right all along. Bleh.  I just don't like the idea of her acquiescing to him all the time.  I'd rather see her grow old together with Mrs. Patmore.  And I'm not shipping -- just a peaceful, equal type of living arrangement.

[ZoloftBlob]

Now that I think about it, isn't Mary the majority owner of the estate? Or the majority owner on behalf of her son George? Shouldn't she be the one making decisions as to whether the Drewes are kept on as tenants? At the very least, as the estate agent, shouldn't she be consulted? Or did I miss that?

 

Robert's not dead yet so as the Earl, and Mary's father, that he gets the last word on any tenants. If I remember the terms of the will/endless idiocy over the Swire money - Matthew owned half the estate, not a majority holding, therefore Mary now has half the estate, not a majority holding.

 

If she was just an estate agent, Robert wouldn't have to consult her at all because she'd be an employee. Personally I am curious if she is really all that committed to it.

[KLovestoShop]

Remember when Robert had a heart scare a while back, and it turned out to be an ulcer?  I wonder if he has another episode of this and the old fashioned hospital doesn't work for him?  That would be an interesting side story to the Isobel and Violet controversy.  

 

Did Daisy consummate her marriage ?  I don't think they ever did because he was going to die and everyone knew it.  

 

Someone upthread made mention of Marigold's looks and I have to agree that I thought the child was weird looking and I wondered if she might just be mentally challenged.   While I know that Edith is not a raving beauty, Gregson was a very nice looking man, but they, IMHO, have made Marigold to be a not so cute child.  

[blackwing]

Does everybody in the family except for Mary know about Edith and Marigold?  I know that Cora and Robert and Rosamund know.  Does Violet know?  Which of the servants know?  It seems like Anna knows, based on the way she was all edgy about it, but I can't remember how and why she knows.

 

Isn't it a bit rude for everyone to keep Mary in the dark like this?  Especially Anna?  I know Anna is only a servant, but she isn't Edith's lady's maid, Edith had that other lady we never saw but only heard mentioned.  If Anna indeed knows, I bet Mary will be hurt when she finds out that Anna didn't tell her.

[lucindabelle]

Oh goody, the return of the divisive Edith - Mrs. Drewe situation.

I'm rewatching season 5 and literally just saw the episode where Mrs. drewe accused Edith of snatching Marigold when Edith was actually in Mrs. drewe's own garden! so if anyone should understand panic over a child going missing, she should. I don't getnwhy people see Edith as being selfish and give Mrs. drewe a complete pass. She kidnapped the child. She said not one word to anyone. If she really beliveed what she was saying surely shed at least have told her husband. She was so insane I half thought the baby was going to be dead in her arms.

I did feel sorry for her when she was kissing the little girl but absolutely nothing justifies the kidnapping. And while Lady Edith could go move away shed be bound to come home sometimes. mr. drewe promised Lord Grantham he could control Margie but clearly he can't, the woman is ill. I had forgotten her tearing up the birth certificate. What with that and the kidnapping it's clear she would justify any action. She's not in her right mind.

As for the editor, I'm a journalist and I think Edith should just fire him. Regardless of how much of a dilettante or how silly her ideas may be.. And we don't know... There is no excuse for any editor to yell at a publisher, the person who pays him. It most likely is misogyny but in any case he's way, way out of line.

I find it kind of hilarious that Mary alone hasn't guessed, when literally everyone else in the Abbey knows. Her coat at the pig judging thing was spectacular.

[terrymct]

There was an interesting contrast at the fat stock show.  Lord Merton was there to support his tenant in showing animals.  Mary was there with her tenant, but she jumped on in there as if she'd had something to do with raising the pigs and her tenant (Mr Drewe) was there to support her.   That had to be intentionally done by the writer since Merton so clearly stated it.

[TVForever]

I hated everything about this episode. It was slow, boring, and depressing.

 

 

Sad sack Thomas is worried he is getting fired. He interviews for another position and finds out it requires a lot of work. He scoffs at it. Boo hoo hoo.

 

        I think you're being a little hard on Thomas. Imagine if a number of your co-workers were let go. Now you're expected to do the work you've always done, plus the work they used to do. You're not going to be paid anymore than you're getting right now, but there you are. That's what Thomas was facing with the new job. The realities of the "new economy" are catching up to all of them little by little, but for now, Thomas only sees (and rightly so), that the new job would involve him alone doing the work that (for now anyway) is divided between several people at Downton. I imagine that anyone would balk at that.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Downton Abbey Remembers Mrs. Drewe Long Enough To Make Her Look Nuts
When a farmer's wife runs up against the wealth and power of her husband's landlord, she...wishes she hadn't, probably.

[ZoloftBlob]

At the same tme I think Thomas is being way too hard on most of the staff over the Andy situation. Thomas has always been a complete ass to new employees when he's not sneaking into their bedrooms and trying to rape them. (like it or not, "I thought he was into me so I got into bed with him and started doing stuff to him" is attempted rape) so I can see why Patmore etc are leery of him cozying up to the new guy. I do think some of its in his head, like Baxter thinks.

 

And of course Carson the man of no character growth is being an unmitigated ass to Thomas, making it quite clear how delighted he'll be to drop the unemployment bomb on Thomas.Carson is a Denker with more power.

[Roseanna]

Robert's not dead yet so as the Earl, and Mary's father, that he gets the last word on any tenants. If I remember the terms of the will/endless idiocy over the Swire money - Matthew owned half the estate, not a majority holding, therefore Mary now has half the estate, not a majority holding.

 

That right.

 

In addition, it's Robert who has so far been worried about the tenants whose family has kept the farms in generations. Mr Drewe's father hadn't paid the rent for a long time, so when he died, his son Mr Drewe was about to lose the farm, until Robert - against Mary and Tom's opinion - decided that he could keep it and even loaned him money to pay what his father owned him.