S03.E10: Maveth

[Traveller519]

First, I'm a fan of this format of splitting up your season, it allows for tighter continuity in story. You don't have to stretch your overarching plot so thin through your more procedural episodes (*cough* Season 1 *cough*).

 

With regards to the actual episode.

 

I'm hoping in the near future we're going to see a Jemma working on tactical training. I loved seeing her escape this episode, and she did survive on the planet for a good long while on her own. However, I think we're starting to see the body count resulting from people "saving" her starting to mount. Will at the hands of Maveth, the Inhumans at the hands of Lash, heck even Hyrda goons that went through the portal with Fitz and those disposed by Bobbie they were undercover last season. They may not be innocents but they're still lives.

 

The look of defeat on Malick's face when he realized SHIELD had secured the portal and on the drive away from the facility was some great under acting.

 

I also thought it was silly of Coulson not to off Ward once he saw Fitz and Will in the distance, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he wanted bleeding Ward there in case "It" appeared.

 

Hunter is the best. I'm a little disappointed he didn't get to meet ol' Hog Face head to head.

[Jack Kerouac]

I liked the episode, generally. A bit boring and didn't match the hype given by the stars.

 

Loved FitzSImmons as always. Ward was an ass as usual, but then died. Biggest WTF of the night? That Coulson could take Ward in hand-to-hand combat. Not a fricken chance. We've seen ward (who is like 10 years Coulson's junior) take out five armed goons at once and Coulson manages to take him out? That was pretty stupid.

 

Loved Hunter waving for the camera (like Fitz did in season 1) and for saying "I don't know about anyone else, but I will probably run." May was useless as usual to the general plot. Time to kill her off.

 

I really liked Joey, with his Dalek bullet melting system.

 

Overall, good mid-season finale (whatever that means), but did not leave me desperately wanting more.

[sinkwriter]

 

I also thought it was silly of Coulson not to off Ward once he saw Fitz and Will in the distance, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he wanted bleeding Ward there in case "It" appeared.

 

At one point, I was waiting for Fitz to come up and help Coulson (who looked like Ward was getting the better of him). I thought maybe this was going to be Fitz's big moment to kill Ward, which -- given the hell Ward put Fitz through -- would have been scary, sad and satisfying. Ward kept yammering about how Coulson and he were the same and blah blah blah, so I think it would have been an awesome surprise to Ward in the moment, to be taken down by Fitz instead.

[PepperMonkey]

This show is definitely better this season than last. I'm so glad Daisy is not Skye anymore and we don't have the angst, poor orphan me, daddy issues Skye that we were saddled with for a while.

 

I go back and forth and Fitz and Simmons. I pretty much mostly always usually love Fitz with minor exceptions. But Jemma bugs me and has for a while. I guess I understand why she gave up and gave in and fell for or fell in love with Will, but I really thought it was more of a romance of convenience. I was all for her wanting to go back and get him but NOT because he was her now one true love, but rather because he was a fellow human trapped there who meant a lot to her in a time of need. I get that she probably thought she'd never see Fitz again, but she didn't seem conflicted at all over the romance aspect of Will vs. Fitz, and I really think she would have felt torn.

 

Also, I was kind of hoping Coulson would get stranded on blue-washed planet and Mack would be in charge and then 3 or 4 years from now, Phil would show up with a pet soccer ball named Wilson and everyone would have moved on. I loved him in the Marvel movie-verse, but I've never bought him as supreme leader of SHIELD.

[Jack Kerouac]

Also, I was kind of hoping Coulson would get stranded on blue-washed planet and Mack would be in charge and then 3 or 4 years from now, Phil would show up with a pet soccer ball named Wilson and everyone would have moved on. I loved him in the Marvel movie-verse, but I've never bought him as supreme leader of SHIELD.

 

He's actually a pretty terrible leader of SHIELD. What he did the following two episodes would be akin to the head of the CIA running off to gun down some former agent who killed his two-week girlfriend. Sure, it's REMOTELY possible it might happen, but no one would ever trust his judgement or leadership ability again.

 

And I agree about the Simmons/Will thing. The story line did absolutely no favours for her character, that's for sure. The whole thing was set up and executed very poorly. There are so many inconsistencies about what went down on the planet and how Simmons reacted to it afterwards. From her weird PTSD that lasted a day or so, to her lashing out at Fitz on two separate occasions, the whole thing was just weird. I was sort of let down by the execution of it, but Elizabeth Henstridge acted the heck out of it, so I liked it more than I should of.

 

Ian did a great job as well, but now his character is in a crappy position, having killed the 'man' that Simmons loved. Can't wait to see how that plays out.

[Fogh]

I go back and forth and Fitz and Simmons. I pretty much mostly always usually love Fitz with minor exceptions. But Jemma bugs me and has for a while. I guess I understand why she gave up and gave in and fell for or fell in love with Will, but I really thought it was more of a romance of convenience. I was all for her wanting to go back and get him but NOT because he was her now one true love, but rather because he was a fellow human trapped there who meant a lot to her in a time of need. I get that she probably thought she'd never see Fitz again, but she didn't seem conflicted at all over the romance aspect of Will vs. Fitz, and I really think she would have felt torn.

 

For all the faults Jemma might have kissing Fitz and going in for a third as he pulled away while knowing all she wants is Will isn't in her imo. She loves Fitz, that much I think we have seen in 3x07 and 3x08. She also only talked about Fitz in 3x10. There is a lot of complicated emotions going on.

 

As Jed said in an interview today: 

 

How will Simmons deal with Will’s death, especially knowing that he died saving her?

She’s a good person, so she’ll have the appropriate reaction. To say that [Fitz and Simmons’] relationship got complicated this year would be a little bit of an understatement. It’s a huge loss for her, but it’s more of a question of how it’ll affect her and Fitz moving forward when there are so many conflicting feelings between them at all times, and now there’s even more.

 

In the scene in this episode it's a mix of sadness and relief. Of course she is sad that Will is dead or still there (at this point she don't his fate) but she is also relieved that Fitz came back.

[tennisgurl]

I just hope that Fitz and Simmons get some lighter plots next year. Its like they went from comic relief in season 1, to all drama, all the time. I`m not really complaining, because, dumb space boyfriend love triangle aside, its been interesting and Ian and Jen are great, but it would be nice to see them be allowed to just have some fun, or be happy nerds again for an episode, before the inevitable angst comes back. 

[Fogh]

I just hope that Fitz and Simmons get some lighter plots next year. Its like they went from comic relief in season 1, to all drama, all the time. I`m not really complaining, because, dumb space boyfriend love triangle aside, its been interesting and Ian and Jen are great, but it would be nice to see them be allowed to just have some fun, or be happy nerds again for an episode, before the inevitable angst comes back. 

 

Just like Ward came to a point where he wasn't redeemable, I think we're past the point with Fitz and Simmons being happy nerds again - or at least for quite some time. There is so many emotions and feelings that needs to sorted out first. However I would like for them to get together and be happy before the series finale. I want a few episodes of fluff after all the angst.

[ChelseaNH]

So far I'm not impressed with Earth's Mightiest Inhuman.  And co-sign on all the complaints about the escape of Dead Ward Walking, and the phony suspense of the countdown clock when there's always time for standing around dramatically.

 

It’s a huge loss for her, but it’s more of a question of how it’ll affect her and Fitz moving forward

 

Sigh.  Simmons and Fitz are less important than the Romantic Saga of FitzSimmons.  Sooooo tired of the Tortured Relationship RollerCoaster.

[blackwing]

Coulson is my least favourite character, and I agree that it stretched belief that he could beat Ward in hand to hand combat.  He looks like he is mid-50s, while Ward is about 30.  Coulson could be Ward's father.  Ward looks to be in great shape.  Coulson, not so much.  I also agree with others that I don't understand all the angst Coulson had over Rosalind.  He knew her for about two weeks.  Sure, it stinks that someone died, but he acted like she was this great love of his life, when really, he was just using her to find out information.

 

While I'm disappointed for Will and the actor who played Will, part of me is glad he didn't make it, because I was not looking forward to the Most Awesomest Love Triangle that Ever Awesomed.  Will and Jemma sharing a quiet laugh in the tech room, while Fitz looks on from the shadows with that hurt puppy dog look.  Will and Jemma finishing each other's sentences, while Fitz looks on with that hurt puppy dog look.  Jemma asking Will how he would fix the flux capacitor instead of Fitz, while Fitz looks on with that hurt puppy dog look.

 

Yep, I am glad I was spared all of that.  Additionally, I had a difficult time telling Will and Ward apart, especially those scenes in the near dark.  When Zombie Ward appeared at the end, I had to think about whether it was Ward or Will.

[DeLurker]

Coulson is my least favourite character, and I agree that it stretched belief that he could beat Ward in hand to hand combat.  He looks like he is mid-50s, while Ward is about 30.  Coulson could be Ward's father.  Ward looks to be in great shape.  Coulson, not so much.

Coulson did shoot Ward.  Twice.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Additionally, I had a difficult time telling Will and Ward apart

Every time I see Joey, I initially think it's Ward!

[sinkwriter]

 

I just hope that Fitz and Simmons get some lighter plots next year. Its like they went from comic relief in season 1, to all drama, all the time.

 

I do miss their finishing of each other's sentences and Jemma making Fitz a sandwich and the two of them just being really funny and in sync. I know the drama will push that aside for a while, but I like when we at least get inklings that they can get it back. I think we saw that in little snippets after Jemma got back from the blue planet.

 

 

And co-sign on all the complaints about the escape of Dead Ward Walking, and the phony suspense of the countdown clock when there's always time for standing around dramatically.

 

I think they didn't think it through well enough. Did they want this to be an intense "Hurry up! The portal's closing in seconds!!" run-for-your-life moment for Fitz and Coulson, or did they want this to be a big dramatic slow-down of a moment where someone finally kills Ward and we say goodbye to that character and who he was and all that he did? You really can't do both at the same time and have either one be fully effective.

[blueray]

I think they didn't think it through well enough. Did they want this to be an intense "Hurry up! The portal's closing in seconds!!" run-for-your-life moment for Fitz and Coulson, or did they want this to be a big dramatic slow-down of a moment where someone finally kills Ward and we say goodbye to that character and who he was and all that he did? You really can't do both at the same time and have either one be fully effective.

I agree with this. The whole time they were fighting, I kept thinking that they should be consecrating on get back not fight each other. Then when Coulson had won the fight, I was thinking just leave ward there and run for it.

[xqueenfrostine]

So have we figured out what the hell has kept Maveth from coming back to Earth all this time?  There appeared to have been nothing guarding him and no special sacrifice or ritual was necessary to free him from that place.  It seems like he just needed a body and a portal in order to leave, two things he's had for thousands of years.  I mean, yes the portal moves, but he's had millennia to figure out the pattern there if he was really motivated to do so.  Odds are, he's probably even come across one by accident at some point in thousands of years he's roamed the planet.  Yet there he stayed. 

[cali1981]

It's a little of both Rosalind and the realization of the never ending war with Ward with the possibility of Ward hurting more people that motivated Coulson. But yes Rosalind was the primary motivation.

For Coulson I think Rosalind represents what he could possible have. But the job he has and the life he lives doesn't leave much room for romance. Rosalind was his chance and it was blown away literally.

I tend to agree.  Just before Phil crushed Ward's chest, he saw Roalind's face as if to fortify him if he had any doubt.  BTW, in Phil's dream when he woke up on the alien planet, Constance Zimmer looked downright gorgeous.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

So have we figured out what the hell has kept Maveth from coming back to Earth all this time? There appeared to have been nothing guarding him and no special sacrifice or ritual was necessary to free him from that place. It seems like he just needed a body and a portal in order to leave, two things he's had for thousands of years. I mean, yes the portal moves, but he's had millennia to figure out the pattern there if he was really motivated to do so. Odds are, he's probably even come across one by accident at some point in thousands of years he's roamed the planet. Yet there he stayed.

I think before Simmons did the calculations with Will, Maveth didn't know when and where the portal would open on Tatooine. But beyond that, I think that the other side of the portal had to be opened on earth in order for him to use it. I might be remembering this incorrectly but in order for a portal to open on earth, someone has to put the five stones together? So even if Maveth figured out when/where the portal opened on his side, he wouldn't have an exit door, so to speak. Someone who was paying more attention, feel free to correct me.

[mac123x]

Well, I thought that was awful.  Planet Blue Filter gives me a headache just watching it.  The pillow-talk scene has been done to death, and as others have pointed out it didn't make a lot of sense in context.  This wasn't Wolverine dreaming of Jean Grey in The Wolverine

 

Daisy:  "We're out of time!"  (passes out)

Mack:  "Fire the missiles!"

May: (hits the button)

Cut to Planet Blue Filter for 3-4 minutes of Fitz screaming that the portal is closing while Coulson takes his own sweet time to slowly kill Ward, remove his hand, toss it on the corpse, stare meaningfully at his rapidly cooling body, then mosey over to the portal at what can't even be described as a brisk pace. 

 

Then even more slow-mo reunion of all the team with really loud and obnoxious score!  Bleh.

 

Was it me or did Lincoln look like an extra keyboardist from Depeche Mode? Maybe it was the turtle neck.

He really needs to shave.  He's a mouth-breather anyway, and the stubble just draws attention to it.  Any time they cut to him when he doesn't have dialog, he's just standing there like a slack-jawed cretin.

 

 

Agreed.

On a side note FiveByFive, when I read your post, all I could think of was Mean Girls "Stop trying to make Fetch happen", lol.

 

I said exactly that when Lincoln and Daisy had their slow-mo kiss / forehead touch.  They have no chemistry.

[xqueenfrostine]

I think before Simmons did the calculations with Will, Maveth didn't know when and where the portal would open on Tatooine. But beyond that, I think that the other side of the portal had to be opened on earth in order for him to use it.I might be remembering this incorrectly but in order for a portal to open on earth, someone has to put the five stones together? So even if Maveth figured out when/where the portal opened on his side, he wouldn't have an exit door, so to speak. Someone who was paying more attention, feel free to correct me.

 

I guess I just don't see why it would take Simmons to figure out the portal schedule given the amount of time he had lived on that planet.  Yes Jemma is especially smart, but ancient civilizations here on earth were able to do essentially what she did without the use of computers or post-graduate level knowledge of math.  Ancient people were using the stars and the sun to navigate, track time and predict certain phenomenon (date of the equinox, flooding, etc.) for thousands of years.  Which is more or less what inspired Jemma to figure out how and where to find the portal.  It was the sextant (an old-time-y  tool that was used for celestial navigation) that she found in the sand that lead to her discovery.  Plus, Maveth said that when he arrived, there were technologically advanced civilizations on the planet, so he probably could have even had help (voluntary or involuntary) tracking these portals had he wanted to.  If he's taking on the memories and knowledge of his host bodies the way he appears to be doing, it just seems crazy that he couldn't have figured this out before when he's had absolutely nothing else to do for thousands of years.

 

As for only being able to go through if the portal was opened manually, I don't think that that was something that was established on the show.  I mean, if it was usually a one-way door, then Maveth wouldn't have bothered blocking Will and Jemma from reaching the portal when it opened up across that canyon. And as for the idea that all of the stones had to be gathered for the portal to work, that can't be the case either.   Malick said in Closure that those 5 stones were only cut from the monolith itself a few centuries ago, so they shouldn't hold any special properties that the monolith itself didn't hold when it was whole.

[TVSpectator]

Did anyone catch exactly what Maveth!Will said about that ancient city?

 

All I can remember IT saying about the cities was something like, "they had the potential for greatness, but..." and that there were 9 cities all together. 

[OtterMommy]

All I can remember IT saying about the cities was something like, "they had the potential for greatness, but..." and that there were 9 cities all together. 

 

And something about the civilization destroying itself.  It sounded very stereotypically SciFi to me...

[TVSpectator]

And something about the civilization destroying itself.  It sounded very stereotypically SciFi to me...

 

Part of me was thinking that the whole Hydra skull cave and the whole backstory talk was a bit too James Bond villainy. 

[MisterGlass]

The Hydra ruin was odd, in part because the historical Hydra symbol seemed to be the ram's skull and not the octopus.  As for escaping the planet on its own, I think it depends in part on how much of the intervening time Maveth had a human body, and the knowledge in that human mind that he had to work with.  Someone referred to as 'death' probably had other people to do the navigating for him.  I'm curious to see what the backstory is, and I imagine he had more to do with the downfall of the cities.  I don't understand why the supposed inhuman is a Go'auld now. 

 

Coulson is my least favourite character, and I agree that it stretched belief that he could beat Ward in hand to hand combat.  He looks like he is mid-50s, while Ward is about 30.  Coulson could be Ward's father.  Ward looks to be in great shape.  Coulson, not so much.

Coulson did shoot Ward.  Twice.

 

That was my thought.  Coulson isn't Melinda May but he's an agent.  I buy him subduing a man that he has shot twice, especially when that man has something of a death wish.  I like Coulson, and my head canon continues to be that Roz was not so much the overriding motivation for this spree as the last straw.  But it should have been a double-tap and sprint for the portal.

 

 

May was useless as usual to the general plot. Time to kill her off.

 

Disagree.  Time to set up a new plot for her.  I quite liked her sabbatical plot and her relationship with Andrew earlier in the season.

 

Add me to the list of people who don't buy Lincoln and Daisy together.

[Jack Kerouac]

Disagree. Time to set up a new plot for her. I quite liked her sabbatical plot and her relationship with Andrew earlier in the season.

Of course, YMMV. I just think besides Andrew, May really has little to do and being the generic badass is just boring.

Add me to the list of people who don't buy Lincoln and Daisy together.

There's just no chemistry. They're bland and boring. At least with FitzSimmons, they're fun to watch.

[blackwing]

I'm with those that think May needs a real story, apart from being brooding and mostly silent in the background.  I loved her interactions with her mother.  Why can't the show bring back Tsai Chin and actually give her something to do other than drive a car?  I'd love to see an episode of May and her mom working together in spydom.  Mama May is supposed to be this great Chinese agent, isn't she?

[Happywatcher]

Most of the other points have been made. I think the show made a point of Phil shooting Ward in the arm to excuse the later victory in hand to hand.

 

However, Fitz can now clearly see he is second best forever for Simmons. May is now mostly free. I think we all see where I am going.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Agents of SHIELD Is More Than Kind Of Blue
The Inhuman Squad gets its first workout, and a certain nameless blue planet returns.

[tankgirl73]

Regarding how Zombie Ward got back -- I wonder if Coulson and Fitz actually know, or suspect. And that's what that long, dark look was about. What was that look about otherwise? Just the dark way that Coulson killed Ward and Fitz killed Will? Maybe. But that should also be tempered with the relief that the big bad -- and the other big bad -- are dead and stuck at the other end of the galaxy. It was hard but it's a good ending, and there's nothing to hide about it. The long dark look implies shared secrets that they dread telling -- like, perhaps, that they didn't get away scot free. That just as they were entering the portal, they looked back and saw re-animated Ward heading towards it. And they got out and said to Mack "blow it! now!" and he did and they ran and they hoped that it was blown in time but they couldn't be sure...

 

Regarding Ward's apparent 'conversion' to the faith of Hydra... I wonder if he'd figured it out. If he realized that Will was actually the monster, and put everything together about the sacrifices being sent through, and when Fitz said that Malick only sent him as the latest sacrifice, if he realized that he was intended to be the next host. That would explain his 'greater purpose' speech. When Not!Will said "I change, I adapt" and Ward said "yeah me too" -- was that an acknowledgment of the kind of changing where you die and become a host?

 

It would also further explain why Ward lost the fight with Coulson. Yeah he was shot, but we've seen him survive that and keep fighting. He seemed to not be resisting at all by the end. Especially if he'd seen that Not!Will had been taken down, he knew that his turn was up and he actually *needed* to die.

 

The whole thing makes more sense if Ward knew.

 

Also, is Lash really a bad guy in the end. He had always said he was doing the right thing even if folks didn't understand his reasons, and even if he couldn't articulate them. He mostly said things like, if someone didn't WANT to be an inhuman, he was doing them a favour. But what if his grander role was to prevent the Army? It's grisly and unfair, these people were innocents at the time, but he did take out the waiting 'army'. Maybe that's why he doesn't go after Daisy -- anyone who is confirmed to be loyal to SHIELD, or some criteria like that, is unlikely to be conscripted into the evil army. Anyone else, though, is a potential servant of Maveth, so he destroys them. Maybe in the grand scheme, he's actually saving humanity, even if he's not aware that that's his purpose.

 

Great line by Fitz that was even greater in hindsight -- when Fitz and Will were chatting, and Fitz was ribbing him saying he didn't anticipate the smell. In initial context, it's good-natured ribbing. Fitz is hurting because Jemma loves this guy, but Fitz knows he's a good guy and isn't going to blame HIM or hold a grudge, heck he might even become friends with him -- he might as well, if Will is going to be part of Jemma's life then he'll be part of Fitz's life too. And of course Will would stink, he's barely bathed in over a decade.

 

But in hindsight... Will was an animated corpse. With rotting flesh. Of course he stank to high heaven. Fitz just didn't realize that the stink was the smell of death, not of merely unwashed.

[OtterMommy]

But in hindsight... Will was an animated corpse. With rotting flesh. Of course he stank to high heaven. Fitz just didn't realize that the stink was the smell of death, not of merely unwashed.

 

So the idea is that "It" occupies a body until it decomposes to a certain point, and then finds another host (hence Hydra sending people up periodically)?  If this is true, wouldn't Ward continue to decompose to the point where his corpse could no longer support It?

 

Also, what was Hydra's plan...that Fitz be the offering and therefore become the new host for "It" or was it always Hydra's plan that Ward be the host?

[emma675]

 

So the idea is that "It" occupies a body until it decomposes to a certain point, and then finds another host (hence Hydra sending people up periodically)?  If this is true, wouldn't Ward continue to decompose to the point where his corpse could no longer support It?

That's what I was wondering. There were so many skeletons on the blue planet (there were a bunch around Coulson when he woke up), that I wondered if It could only inhabit a dead body until it was pretty much skeletonized and then had to find a new host. If so, Zombie Ward is going to look grosser and grosser as time goes by.

[gaby4ever25]

I seem to be in the minority here, but I really liked Ward as a villain (sorry, but I just find him really entertaining). Actually, I find him to be one of the better MCU villains honestly. And I quite like Brett Dalton. So I'm more than happy that they found a way to keep him around for at least a little longer.

I can co-sign your post. I agree completely. Ward and Brett Dalton are the only reason I'm invested on this show. With the insufferable Marty-Stu and Mary-Sue, it's a miracle I've stuck around this long. I so want this iteration of Ward to off Coulson or Daisy or both. Coulson was good in the movies, however he just doesn't work as the lead of a tv show and Daisy is just the most perfect snowflake. It's sad when the two characters with the most screen time are the worst part of a show.

I was surprised how much I liked Mack as Director. Sooooooo much better than Coulson. I wasn't fond of Hunter in the beginning but he's growing on me and the others are okay, even Lincoln who's frankly boring. Can't wait for March to see where they take this new version of Ward. As an actor, BD is probably having a blast.

Edited December 10, 2015 by gaby4ever25

[Texasmom1970]

Really liked this episode pretty good all around. I personally don't mind Ward being evil. I prefer that to when he was crushing on Skye/Daisy.

I do t know if Gemma will mourn Will or try a relationship with Fitz. All I cared about was Fitz getting back safely!

[HawaiiTVGuy]

Anyone else wondering how stupid of a cult Hydra is for worshiping a slug? I am still unsure about whether those people sent through the portal in the mid-Century flashback were "sacrifices", didn't they specifically give the guy a sword before sending him into the portal room?

Is the slug's superpower neutralized on the blue planet or something? Because it sure doesn't seem to be a matter of giving his host any super-human strength. And considering the original Will was able to evade him for so long until Gemma came, the Inhuman doesn't seem to be too capable at hunting on his own. Maybe his superpower is the ability to whip up sand storms? Wasn't that supposedly his calling card? It would be so hilarious if it turns out Hydra has been worshiping a completely useless entity, and it was considered so "great" way back when just because it could jump bodies and in theory, be invincible. I am sure Lash will have fun just vaporizing it when they meet up.

[enness2000]

I kinda hope almost-killing Joey becomes a running joke (after the "He's dead - PSYCH! Just Andrew daydreaming", "He's diving in front of a hail of gunfire - PSYCH! He's functionally bulletproof" two-fer), like Rory on Doctor Who, but with less actual death. I'm also on board with everyone above who prefers him to Lincoln as an Inhuman viewpoint character - his dorkiness is very endearing.

While I liked the Will reveal (and the comments upthread about the foreshadowing make me like it more), the whole plot just feels half-baked. Only Fitz can get people back from the blue planet, apparently, for poorly-defined reasons, and Hydra has been worshipping this entity for centuries, for poorly-defined reasons, and Ward is willing to give up basically everything he's been working for in order to try to personally bring it back, for poorly-defined reasons... I don't necessarily mind that they're keeping Ward around (in that it's bad luck and a lack of character knowledge, rather than character idiocy, that's let him escape so far - they've been concertedly trying to kill him for a full season now - which, to my mind, makes him less Sylar-like)

I do like where they're heading with an unstoppable Inhuman-killing monster and an unstoppable Inhuman being the two big threats for 3B - lots of potential there.

[TVSpectator]

the whole plot just feels half-baked. Only Fitz can get people back from the blue planet, apparently, for poorly-defined reasons, and Hydra has been worshipping this entity for centuries, for poorly-defined reasons, and Ward is willing to give up basically everything he's been working for in order to try to personally bring it back, for poorly-defined reasons... I don't necessarily mind that they're keeping Ward around (in that it's bad luck and a lack of character knowledge, rather than character idiocy, that's let him escape so far - they've been concertedly trying to kill him for a full season now - which, to my mind, makes him less Sylar-like)

I do like where they're heading with an unstoppable Inhuman-killing monster and an unstoppable Inhuman being the two big threats for 3B - lots of potential there.

Don't get me wrong here, I did like this episode , but with all the talk of there being not one but two major deaths, and also decisions impacting the rest of the show I was expecting more.

Also, yes there seems to be a lot of half-back reasons going on (like the ones you mentioned above), but part of me wants to wait till the end of the season because, IMO, that is usually when things not only picked up but we also get a ton of answers as well and the eventual set up for the next season.

Edited December 10, 2015 by TVSpectator

[Fogh]

So this isn't exactly a spoiler, more of a clarification so I put it here without tags.

 

The scene at the end with FitzSimmons there was an editing mistake. If you look closely you can see Fitz in the module for a brief moment which alters the scene completely because if Jemma had seen Fitz then she goes to the pod only looking for Will. That isn't the case. Jeff Bell said that the way it was meant to be interpreted is that Jemma doesn't see Fitz and approaches the pod to look for both or one more than the other. She turns around, sees Fitz and is thrilled he made it back but also sad Will didn't.

 

I hope this clears things up for people. You can listen to the podcast here. He also talks about Ward, Coulson and the secret warriors.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Fogh

[SongbirdHollow]

 

 

But in hindsight... Will was an animated corpse. With rotting flesh. Of course he stank to high heaven. Fitz just didn't realize that the stink was the smell of death, not of merely unwashed.

 

YES!

Shades of Bathilda Bagshot in the Harry Potter book. They figured it out afterwards, too.

 

In light of this, I'm reeeeeallly wondering about the odd odor I've noticed lately coming from under my sofa. I have some housekeeping to take care of, I think.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Anyone else wondering how stupid of a cult Hydra is for worshiping a slug? I am still unsure about whether those people sent through the portal in the mid-Century flashback were "sacrifices", didn't they specifically give the guy a sword before sending him into the portal room?

 

Is the slug's superpower neutralized on the blue planet or something? Because it sure doesn't seem to be a matter of giving his host any super-human strength. And considering the original Will was able to evade him for so long until Gemma came, the Inhuman doesn't seem to be too capable at hunting on his own. Maybe his superpower is the ability to whip up sand storms? Wasn't that supposedly his calling card? It would be so hilarious if it turns out Hydra has been worshiping a completely useless entity, and it was considered so "great" way back when just because it could jump bodies and in theory, be invincible. I am sure Lash will have fun just vaporizing it when they meet up.

 

The one thing I don't get about 'IT' -- is 'IT' supposed to be a shapechanger as well ? Or does he have psychic powers to make people believe they are seeing things ?

 

Because at the end of 4,722 hours, 'IT' appeared as a spaceman complete with space helmet in some sort of attempt to make Jemma believe it was Will.  Does this now mean that Zombie!Ward is a shapechanger or has gnarly psychic powers ?

 

Because his physical powers kind of suck, what with inhabiting dead bodies and all.

 

Also, why was 'IT' basically camped out in Will's underground lair ?  Was it just sitting around waiting for a rescue mission ?  How would 'IT' even know that they would be able re-open the portal ?

[Jack Kerouac]

Most of the other points have been made. I think the show made a point of Phil shooting Ward in the arm to excuse the later victory in hand to hand.

 

However, Fitz can now clearly see he is second best forever for Simmons. May is now mostly free. I think we all see where I am going.

Now THAT would be an interesting pair.

Also, remember that Jemma said IT felt like was once powerful, but had faded with time. I'm thinking we haven't seen what IT is really capable of yet.

[sinkwriter]

May would crush Fitz.  *GRIN*

[tankgirl73]

Because at the end of 4,722 hours, 'IT' appeared as a spaceman complete with space helmet in some sort of attempt to make Jemma believe it was Will.  Does this now mean that Zombie!Ward is a shapechanger or has gnarly psychic powers ?

 

That spaceman was one of Will's old colleagues. I don't think it was an illusion, I think it was the body IT was inhabiting at the time. And that's probably why Will was able to elude it for so long -- IT didn't need a new body yet, so it was happy to let Will live so that when the time came, it could kill him and have a fresh body.

 

Then when Gemma was escaping, Will and IT battled. There are different possible scenarios, but I'd guess that Will shot IT so that the body was too damaged to keep using, but it still had enough strength to overpower and kill Will, then take over his body

[Kel Varnsen]

But I'm wondering if Mark DaCaca is dead.  Lincoln fried him.  Why did Daisy stop him from finishing him off?  It would have taken a mere 10 more seconds.  I don't get why DaCaca didn't telekinetically blast Daisy directly.  Why raise a gun to shoot bullets when you are a powerful telekinetic?

I swear on tv there has to be some rule where the better your powers are the worse ways you will use them. I mean that guy could have given anyone instant concussion or direct heart punch, but instead he picks up automatic weapons and holds them far away from his eyes.

 

Coulson... Oh, Coulson. You should have shot Ward in the head once you saw Fitz and Will in the distance. The Maveth crossing is on you.

(But you were a badass, I give you that)

 

The writers were kind of stuck here. If Coulson shot Ward in the head, then Zombie Ward would be kind of useless, since walking around with a bullet hole in your head on earth would attract attention.

I think before Simmons did the calculations with Will, Maveth didn't know when and where the portal would open on Tatooine. But beyond that, I think that the other side of the portal had to be opened on earth in order for him to use it. I might be remembering this incorrectly but in order for a portal to open on earth, someone has to put the five stones together? So even if Maveth figured out when/where the portal opened on his side, he wouldn't have an exit door, so to speak. Someone who was paying more attention, feel free to correct me.

I am just amazed that of all the times the portal was opened, so many of them have been in walking distance of the characters. I mean how small is this planet? 

[ottoDbusdriver]

That spaceman was one of Will's old colleagues. I don't think it was an illusion, I think it was the body IT was inhabiting at the time. And that's probably why Will was able to elude it for so long -- IT didn't need a new body yet, so it was happy to let Will live so that when the time came, it could kill him and have a fresh body.

 

Then when Gemma was escaping, Will and IT battled. There are different possible scenarios, but I'd guess that Will shot IT so that the body was too damaged to keep using, but it still had enough strength to overpower and kill Will, then take over his body

 

Hmm, but wouldn't those bodies be long decomposed after a little under 14 years -- plus Will buried all the bodies.  And when Jemma spotted 'IT' when she was out scavenging, 'IT' was dark hooded figure wearing torn robes walking very slowly -- kind of the Pepe LePew of Maveth.

 

ETA: in the end scene, we see Will tossing away his gun and walking away (as the brief bout of sunshine disappears), but he doesn't have a leg wound -- was 'IT' in control of Will at that point ?

Edited December 11, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[Rocket]

In the comics there are item only telekinetic power people who can't directly effect organic beings. So as this goon only moved items I assumed that was his type as folks have said here if able to effect people directly he would have used that as his primary attack all the time.

Yep the portal already open with Coulson killing Ward did not work that well with all the pauses. Yes any well trained persons can keep a time available running in there head but I dislike these 1 second till the bomb blows saves. Yes it is the normal trope and in this case it the I going to use every second I have till the portal closes version. And with both portals and bombs you have the time stretch trope where monologs and fighting can take way to long to avoid disaster yet you end up just making it.

[Raja]

In the comics there are item only telekinetic power people who can't directly effect organic beings. So as this goon only moved items I assumed that was his type as folks have said here if able to effect people directly he would have used that as his primary attack all the time.

Only his attack on ATCU Agent Banks, where an experienced soldier didn't break for cover suggest he was being controlled directly. Edited December 11, 2015 by Raja

[blackwing]

In the comics there are item only telekinetic power people who can't directly effect organic beings. So as this goon only moved items I assumed that was his type as folks have said here if able to effect people directly he would have used that as his primary attack all the time.

Can you provide some examples, because I can't think of any. Even assuming someone's TK can't affect organic matter, they should still be able to project a telekinetic force bolt, pushing the air and thus forcefully fling someone across the room. DaCaca should have been able to easily render Daisy harmless by slamming her into the wall. Instead, he slowly raises up this gun.

On "Charmed", the Shannen Doherty character was telekinetic and was often seen moving objects here and there. But she also used her power to slam people into walls. And just last night on "Arrow", the TV version of Damien Dahrk is apparently telekinetic. He uses his power to stop arrows in midflight and to strip the police of their guns. But he also telekinetically shoved Oliver forcefully through a window and into the next room.

[Jeezaloo]

Felt genuinely sad for Will. FitzSimmons fighting over what turned out to be a now-dead man's no-longer-existing contribution to a love triangle they didn't know was now just a two-point line between two over-thinkers; and yet, the only reason they were able to argue is because that dead man loved Simmons while he was alive, and sacrificed his life to guide her home to Fitz.

 

Hm.

[dwmarch]

Can you provide some examples, because I can't think of any. Even assuming someone's TK can't affect organic matter, they should still be able to project a telekinetic force bolt, pushing the air and thus forcefully fling someone across the room. DaCaca should have been able to easily render Daisy harmless by slamming her into the wall. Instead, he slowly raises up this gun.

 

We've already seen the Inhuman characters on this show getting gassed when over-extending their powers. I assume the same is true for Wo Fat's telekinesis. It makes sense if you think about it from a non-powered point of view. You're fighting someone. You can either pick that person up and slam them against a wall or you can pick up a gun and shoot them. Same idea with the powers. Wo Fat has no idea how many SHIELD mooks he might be up against so he's conserving his strength in case he needs to battle someone else right around the corner.

[ACW]

We've already seen the Inhuman characters on this show getting gassed when over-extending their powers. I assume the same is true for Wo Fat's telekinesis. It makes sense if you think about it from a non-powered point of view. You're fighting someone. You can either pick that person up and slam them against a wall or you can pick up a gun and shoot them. Same idea with the powers. Wo Fat has no idea how many SHIELD mooks he might be up against so he's conserving his strength in case he needs to battle someone else right around the corner.

 

Or, much like the new guy, his powers only work on metal, such as guns. 

[Ariah]

I've been reading some online reviews of Maveth and I found a bit that was equally funny and mean:

 

"The reason Ward wanted to sacrifice Fitz to the Inhuman God was because Fitz is a virgin."

...

 

Ok, that was just on the Ward's "do you want to pull the trigger" level of snark.