S02.E09: The Castle

[numbnut]

I'd be willing to accept that if Hanzee hadn't also made that bitchin' head shot on the store clerk right after Peggy had stabbed him in the shoulder (which is what he aims with).

 

But Hanzee still had his eyes at that point. A sharpshooter needs to see clearly to hit a target.

[Lorimac]

"Boy, she makes us look like the gang that can't shoot straight, doesn't she? Our beautician."

Kudos to this show for completely evoking the 70s.  I remember the novel "The Gang Who Couldn't Shoot Straight" by Jimmy Breslin.  It was one of the first "grown up" books I read. I need to find a copy and see if it holds up 40 years later.

 

I do wonder if Simone alive, but I sort of doubt it.

 

Charly being in jail saved his life.  You know he would have been with the rest of them if he wasn't.

 

My favorite moment was Lou saying to Hank, "So, see ya at dinner on Sunday?" and Hank's rueful smile in response.  That was a moment of kindness - letting someone who is in a bad way feel like life will just keep going on....

Edited December 8, 2015 by Lorimac

[Chaos Theory]

The aliens were just one big site gag in the middle of a giant gun fight. Everyone just stopped what they were doing and looked up at the aliens and got shot. Ed was about to do the same when his wife pulled him away and said, "it's just a flying saucer hun. We've gotta go."

That and getting into a gun fight in a white tee shirt is the best site gag ever.

[GodsBeloved]

What did Peggy mean when she spat at Lou, "You're half the reason we're in this mess!" I can't remember Lou having any direct involvement in their shenanigans. Other than trying to protect and save their lucky and dumb asses.

I guess everyone except her is to blame for them being in this mess. This just solitified my desire to see Peggy get got. She doesn't have to die but I want her in jail at least.

 

I'm going to be SO gutted if Besty did more than just collapse. And poor Molly :(

Edited December 8, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[Ohwell]

I was disappointed in the UFO crap, which I thought was totally unnecessary.

 

Of course Lou makes it out alive, but I'd also like to see Hank, Mike, Hanzee, and shit cop left standing.  Speaking of shit cop, he saved Peggy and Ed and he got a gun-butt to the head for his trouble.  Peggy didn't have to do that because so much was going down, she and Ed could have just run out of the room.  She just defaultls to kill/torture mode which is why I want to see her dead or at least in prison when this ends. 

What did Peggy mean when she spat at Lou, "You're half the reason we're in this mess!" I can't remember Lou having any direct involvement in their shenanigans. Other than trying to protect and save their lucky and dumb asses.

I really wish that Lou had spat back to her "You wouldn't be in this mess if you had told us you hit Rye in the first place!"

[GodsBeloved]

He had her car inspected, something she diddnt exactly like.

Hank was the one who said they were going to inspect the car but even still, this is Peggy we're dealing with so ... LOL

 

Charlie seems to be the last Gerhadt male standing.  I was thinking that the authorities might want to throw the book at him with all the death and chaos this war caused.  But I was thinking that if Ed ends up getting killed next week (that's up in the air), the charges against Charlie might end up being dropped.

Forget Peggy and Ed. I want Charlie and Noreen to ride off into the sunset ... or rebuilt the shop LOL

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

 

I saw a UFO one summer night on Long Island, NY. It was massive yet silent and I'll never forget it.

I saw a UFO as a kid in the early 60s in Nevada. Saw another one (very similar to the blinking lights description) in 1978 in California. Never forgot my creepy feeling

 

The whole UFO thing reminded me of that movie MAGNOLIA where it started raining frogs at the very end. But I'm sure it will tie in somehow. The whole time I was sitting on the edge of the sofa. Wow. 

 

(because Crash and Magnolia are not the same movies)

Edited December 9, 2015 by ItsHelloPattiagain

[Inquisitionist]

From the interview with Zahn McClarnon (Hanzee Dent) that has been linked in a couple of threads:

 

It now seems inevitable, but it was still shocking to me when Hanzee killed Floyd.

When you’re on set, you have no idea how it’s all going to be cut together, especially that scene . We shot that for about three nights and I took out 11 people, I think. When I watched the episode I couldn’t stop smiling. When Peggy said “C’mon, darling, it’s just a UFO,” I laughed so hard the dog started barking next door. Not a lot is shown about the relationship between Hanzee and Floyd, so it will be interesting to see how people react to Hanzee taking her out. The expression on his face—he’s pretty blank. It’s just something he had to do to further his agenda.

 

Excellent interview!

[Eyes High]

Forget Peggy and Ed. I want Charlie and Noreen to ride off into the sunset ... or rebuilt the shop LOL

 

I need closure on Charlie/Noreen. They were so fucking cute together! 

 

Charlie seems to be the last Gerhadt male standing.  I was thinking that the authorities might want to throw the book at him with all the death and chaos this war caused.  But I was thinking that if Ed ends up getting killed next week (that's up in the air), the charges against Charlie might end up being dropped.

 

Considering the Kansas City folks will be setting up shop and mopping up, Charlie going free probably isn't the safest thing for him.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Eyes High

[AuntiePam]

Re Hanzee knowing about the motel -- we saw him talking to Floyd on the phone, so Floyd probably told him. 

 

I loved the framing device, the book, with the narration.  All I could think was I'm not worthy of this show -- that was fun, unnecessary but fun.  Loved the UFO and glad that there was some historical "truth" to the sighting.  I was fine with Bear continuing to charge after being shot -- the head shot was just a graze and he was wearing layers of clothing.  Carhartt?  It'd make a good ad for them.  Loved the cops playing strip poker.  "You gotta wear pants this time!" 

 

The only nitpick I have is that no one tried to reach Lou to tell him about Betsy.  She collapsed in daylight and it was night at the motel, so there was plenty of time for someone to call. 

[barbedwire]

Molly being the one to find Betsy - so sad!  Glad Noreen was there for her, though I wish it would have been Karl (? - the Nick Offerman character).

 

Milligan gets all the best lines!   This week "Okay then!"  Last week's "Brother, I like your style."

 

I didn't see that coming - Floyd dying by Hanzee!

 

Yay for Adam Arkin directing.  He was in my favorite episode of Fraiser.

 

The convenience store old man - made me realize that with the old rotary phones getting the police or any type of help on the line was not quick. 

 

Didn't care for the UFO over Lou and Bear.

[GodsBeloved]

Re Hanzee knowing about the motel -- we saw him talking to Floyd on the phone, so Floyd probably told him. 

 

But wait. How would Floyd know about the motel? Hanzee called to tell them he knew where Dodd was so he had to tell her about the motel.

[ToastnBacon]

I still don't know what to think about this episode.

I was more taken aback by how they lapsed into a few frames of Frank Miller-style comic book shots of Hanzee firing his weapon than the UFO.

Ok, I like the episode but I'm so invested at this point in the series, they could have gotten away with a lot more than they did.

Martin Freeman sounded too prissy Brttish as narrator, I would have like a neutral American dialect or a MidWest dialect.

I halfway want to be critical, but what's the point?

It was still good.

[barbedwire]

Steve Zahn would have been great as a narrator - Mr. Minnesota.

 

And, as some of said, yes to more of Charlie and Noreen.  Maybe that can be the next series.  How those 2 emerge as crime bosses.

[AuntiePam]

But wait. How would Floyd know about the motel? Hanzee called to tell them he knew where Dodd was so he had to tell her about the motel.

 

You're right.  Now I'm confused.  Maybe he just followed the police cars?

Edited December 8, 2015 by AuntiePam

[RustbeltWriter]

Martin Freeman sounded too prissy Brttish as narrator, I would have like a neutral American dialect or a MidWest dialect.

 

 

Maybe Sam Elliot ala The Big Lebowski

 

I laughed out loud when Ed explained that Dodd had come for Peggy and she "knocked him on his ass". He smiled and was so proud of his little psycho.

Edited December 8, 2015 by RustbeltWriter

[GodsBeloved]

You're right.  Now I'm confused.  Maybe he just followed the police cars?

But :), Hanzee was already set up watching them through his scope as they drove into the parking lot.

[ChipBach]

Re Hanzee knowing about the motel -- we saw him talking to Floyd on the phone, so Floyd probably told him. 

 

I loved the framing device, the book, with the narration.  All I could think was I'm not worthy of this show -- that was fun, unnecessary but fun.  Loved the UFO and glad that there was some historical "truth" to the sighting.  I was fine with Bear continuing to charge after being shot -- the head shot was just a graze and he was wearing layers of clothing.  Carhartt?  It'd make a good ad for them.  Loved the cops playing strip poker.  "You gotta wear pants this time!" 

 

The only nitpick I have is that no one tried to reach Lou to tell him about Betsy.  She collapsed in daylight and it was night at the motel, so there was plenty of time for someone to call. 

 

I am old.  We only needed to use 5 numbers to make a local call in Versailles Kentucky in 1979,

 

I remember 1979 (high school junior) and like the writer of the episode summery said, unanswered calls were common place.  Someone is in the bathroom, someone is outside, etc.  No voicemail, etc.  Heck, if my dad was traveling for business we had to set a time at night to talk to him, as far as finding him (just like Lou), that would be nearly impossible.  So given the context of when this happened, I would not expect Lou to be a bit concerned.  The actor played it as mild annoyance.  Great choice I thought.

 

I would have thought Noreen would have called the Minnesota police dispatch operator to report the incident with Betsy and relay it to Lou.  Maybe next weeks finale will show that Becky specifically asked them not to worry Lou.  

 

Given the fact that she had just found out a few weeks earlier that her cancer spread (when she started the new drug), seems hard to believe she could have escalated that quickly.

Edited December 8, 2015 by ChipBach

[tennisgurl]

Thinking about it, I feel like the narration fit the theme of the show really well. With the twee, folksyness of the narration and the book and all the stylishness, in its most brutal,bloody episode, its basically a representation of the whole show in general. That even if you cover up blood and corruption and crime with Minnesota nice and politeness and lots of snow, its still there. You can dress it up with style and folksyness, but the darkness is still there. The contrast between the Wes Anderson quirk and the Coen Brothers grit is just really clever. 

[AuntiePam]

But :), Hanzee was already set up watching them through his scope as they drove into the parking lot.

 

Yeah -- this is bugging me.  He told Floyd that he tracked them to a motel in Sioux Falls.  Then we see him watching all the cars drive in. 

 

Could be that he spotted a police car there earlier -- a cop who went ahead to arrange for the rooms.  It'd be easier for the cop to do it in person rather than looking for a phone booth and making a phone call. 

[Chaos Theory]

Hanzee could have figured out about the motel by all the police cars going in and out on their "uncover operation". The entire thing was amateurs hour by a guy who was only after a promotion . They were all wearing white tshirts and playing cards and turned off the radio for "radio silence".

A well trained tracker like Hanzee didn't need to know ahead of time. The place screamed "police sting".

He was tracking Peggy and Ed and found the most obvious police sting in history. It would have been a crime not to use it to his advantage. A crime I say!

Edited December 8, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Eyes High]

Hanzee is the same guy who managed to spot a piece of glass in a pile of snow. I'm pretty sure he could successfully a track a convoy of police cars going about their business in broad daylight in the most conspicuous way possible.

[Anela]

Kudos to this show for completely evoking the 70s.  I remember the novel "The Gang Who Couldn't Shoot Straight" by Jimmy Breslin.  It was one of the first "grown up" books I read. I need to find a copy and see if it holds up 40 years later.

 

I do wonder if Simone alive, but I sort of doubt it.

 

Charly being in jail saved his life.  You know he would have been with the rest of them if he wasn't.

 

My favorite moment was Lou saying to Hank, "So, see ya at dinner on Sunday?" and Hank's rueful smile in response.  That was a moment of kindness - letting someone who is in a bad way feel like life will just keep going on....

I liked that, too. :) And their little exchange before that: "I should have gone home with you." "Turns out I didn't go."

[GUNTER]

Hanzee is the same guy who managed to spot a piece of glass in a pile of snow. I'm pretty sure he could successfully a track a convoy of police cars going about their business in broad daylight in the most conspicuous way possible.

If we look at the book it suggests your theory is true. 

Tho we don't know if the book is correct on everything!

[Ronin Jackson]

Are Lou and Hank the only competent cops in all of MN, ND and SD?

 

That was one of the most intense hours of televsion I ever watched.  Then it got wierd with the flying saucer, but still catching my breath from the rest of it.

 

That's seems to be the MO of the series... focus on one or two competent cops (season 1: Molly and the Sheriff who bit it in the first episode) surrounded by a bunch of incredibly inept boobs. It really bothered me in the first season but somehow not so much here... 

 

 

I liked everything about this episode except the deal with the ufo. Why, Joel & Ethan, why?

 

 

 

But the UFO might be the only part of this story that actually happened, and I find that really funny and awfully Coen:

 

http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/10/fargo-ufo-val-johnson/

 

Well, it's probably not my place to answer for Joel and Ethan Coen, but I suspect the answer is something to the effect of "We're collecting a paycheck for a spinoff of a movie we did 20 years ago while we continue to pursue other projects. You might want to ask Noah Hawley that question though, he didn't consult with us."

 

The whole UFO thing reminded me of that movie Crash where it started raining frogs at the very end. But I'm sure it will tie in somehow. The whole time I was sitting on the edge of the sofa. Wow. 

 

There are two movies named "Crash"... I've seen one, and that definitely didn't have raining frogs. So I can't say for sure that the other one didn't have raining frogs, but I did see a movie that had raining frogs, and it definitely wasn't called "Crash." I'm going to go out on a limb and say there weren't two movies featuring raining frogs.

 

The UFO thing didn't bother me... I mean it was introduced in the first episode so it didn't come out of the blue. I do hope there's a bit more context revealed in the final episode, but I can already say that I'm more at peace with it than the raining fish from season 1 (which definitely reminded me more of the raining frogs movie which shall not be named in case someone reading this happens to see it).

 

I'm really enjoying this season.... it's had great music selections throughout. Looking forward to the finale.

[cpcathy]

The frogs rained in the film Magnolia.

[Ronin Jackson]

I was trying to avoid spoiling that bit for people who haven't seen the movie, but oh well... internet.

[bosawks]

If we can do a Fargo crossover I would love it if Dana Scully had to interview Peggy.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Dirty Harry Ohanzee is tremendous.  A crime family's got to know its limitations!

 

Did anyone actually see that one Buffalo guy who kept answering the phone/relaying messages to Bear at the Gerhardt compound get killed?  How many thugs did Buffalo have available to lend?  Sheez.

[scrb]

How does Hanzee know there was going to be a sting? He didn't know Mike was coming.

For all he knew, the cops were going to take the couple to police HQ to take their statements, including Hanzee killing Dodd.

[Nutjob]

I think if you see a bunch of LEOs hole up in a hotel and hide all their vehicles, it's a pretty sure bet it's a sting of some sort.

 

I found it telling that only one officer was awake and not distracted in the hotel, and that was Hank. Ben was sleeping (thank goodness Peggy was alert and knew something was up) and the rest were either asleep or distracted with their poker game. Pretty telling that the only two rooms where someone made it out alive had someone awake and paying attention to their surroundings.

[AuntiePam]

How does Hanzee know there was going to be a sting? He didn't know Mike was coming.

For all he knew, the cops were going to take the couple to police HQ to take their statements, including Hanzee killing Dodd.

 

Didn't Ed say something in Loplop about trading Dodd with KC?  I don't think it matters, whether or not Hanzee knew about KC. 

 

Hanzee might not have known KC was coming to the motel but he knew that's where Ed and Peggy were.  Telling Floyd that KC would also be there is just insurance that the Gerhardts will show up, in force.

 

I think.  Could be wrong.

[Chaos Theory]

How does Hanzee know there was going to be a sting? He didn't know Mike was coming..

I don't think it matters if he did know. He wanted a bunch of people dead and he got them all in one place for a blood bath. Whether or not he knew why the cops were there didn't matter. More guns to bring to the party.

And yes I think for Hanzee Mike was the only unexpected guest. Too bad he showed up late. Missed all the fun.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[AuntiePam]

Hanzee told Floyd that KC and The Butcher had Dodd, following along with Dodd's story.  So no, he didn't know KC would be there, but he knew that Floyd wouldn't send an army if it was just The Butcher who had Dodd.  Hanzee wanted an army. 

[scrb]

Still not clear why Hanzee had reason to believe the couple would be at the motel the next day.

 

Like I said, they kidnapped Dodd across state lines (where the fuck is the FBI?) and the cops find them in a cabin with a dead body.

 

Why would anyone conclude that the cops would let them do a sting?  Again, if it was about getting the KC mob, the FBI would be involved, not some local yokel North Dakota cops.

 

That is unless Hanzee knew about the meeting.

[Ronin Jackson]

The yokel cops were not exactly subtle about what they were up to so I think it's possible Hanzee could have tailed them to the motel. As for why it was the yokel ND cops conducting a sting operation and not the FBI, depicting realistic law enforcement procedure has not exactly been top priority for Noah Hawley in this series, but I suppose you could chalk it up to them not wanting to hand over the info to the feds. Certainly, the moronic law enforcement from season 1 returned in full force in this episode. I'm not sure going to radio silence made a whole lot of sense either... did they think the KC mafia would be going into a meeting with military style radio transmission detectors?

Edited December 9, 2015 by Ronin Jackson

[scrb]

It could be a case of making small town people look bad.

 

Hawley is respectful of the people in the region in interviews but Lou and Hank earned their wisdom in brutal wars.

 

The others in local law enforcement are not so clever.

[Stratego]

Still not clear why Hanzee had reason to believe the couple would be at the motel the next day.

 

Like I said, they kidnapped Dodd across state lines (where the fuck is the FBI?) and the cops find them in a cabin with a dead body.

 

Why would anyone conclude that the cops would let them do a sting?  Again, if it was about getting the KC mob, the FBI would be involved, not some local yokel North Dakota cops.

 

That is unless Hanzee knew about the meeting.

There was no indication that Dodd was kidnapped (except for what we saw), so the FBI would not have been involved.  The purpose of the sting was to get Hanzee because of his murders in Rushmore--it only involved Dodd because Dodd was the bait Ed and Peggy were using to get KC's help/protection.

 

Peggy picking up Ben[jamin's] shotgun is foreshadowing--she will be using it!

 

Lou was gutshot--a most serious wound.  It is likely he doesn't survive long-term, but will definitely require surgery and hospitalization.

 

Bear's explanation to Floyd about Simone "...she ran off..." makes it clear to me that Simone was executed.

 

There would be an army of South Dakota troopers and police descending on Sioux Falls as soon as the cops reported back to their HQ.  Whatever happens in Episode 10 had better happen very shortly after Ed and Peggy's "escape".

[scrb]

Where are the Gerhards based?

 

They came to Luverne, MN to the Bloomquists.  Then they took Dodd in the trunk from Luverne to where?  Then ended up in Sioux Falls.

 

So when the cops were fighting about jurisdiction, they should have been notifying the FBI.

[LittleIggy]

I knew Floyd was a goner when they left her with Hansee. I hope Hank makes it. Yeah, Peggy's line "It's just a UFO, Ed" was golden!

BTW, the actress who played Simone said she was killed in an article someone linked to on this forum.

Edited December 9, 2015 by LittleIggy

[ShannaB]

Something about the narration bugged me right from the get go and not because it was different because I expect different from Fargo.  When I saw Martin Freeman's name in the credits a 'light bulb' went off.  Martin Freeman was copying the narrator in the movie HITCHHIKERS GUIDE TO THE GALAXY. Or he was being Arthur Dent doing the narrating.  Hello!  Martin Freeman played Arthur Dent and we have Hanzee DENT on FARGO.  The HGTTG vibe was so strong....Spaceships, telephone booths in the middle of nowhere.  I was expecting towels to be given to all the characters and then a thumb raised to the spaceship for a beam up LOL.  There was such a strong HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE vibe in this episode.  Maybe there will be dolphins in Ep 10 **grins**

 

I was actually disappointed that Floyd went down like that.  I so wanted to see a badass Jean Smart and she never really got a chance.

 

I enjoy the attention to detail.  I swear I saw some pasties on the counter in the gas station store which would be so fitting.

[AuntiePam]

Where are the Gerhards based?

 

They came to Luverne, MN to the Bloomquists.  Then they took Dodd in the trunk from Luverne to where?  Then ended up in Sioux Falls.

 

So when the cops were fighting about jurisdiction, they should have been notifying the FBI.

 

The Gerhardts are based in North Dakota, probably Fargo, or nearby.  The Blumquist house is near Luverne, Minnesota.  The cabin where Dodd was killed was close to Sioux Falls. 

 

Yeah, crimes were committed in three different states.  The FBI should have been called but the locals wanted the glory.  The one cop even talked about recommendations and pay raises. 

 

scrb, we don't know that Hanzee knew about a meeting.  All we know for sure is that Hanzee knew there were cops at a motel in Sioux Falls. 

 

eta: ShannaB, my husband noticed that at the gas station pumps, there was motor oil -- in cans.  Yeah, attention to detail.  It's all through the show, not just the time period stuff but the callbacks to Coen movies, etc.  The dumb cop in charge -- his name is Jeb Cheney.  That can't be an accident.

Edited December 9, 2015 by AuntiePam

[LittleIggy]

I'm surprised nobody has had a Sioux City Sarsparilla by now. It's a good 'un. ;-)

[knaankos]

No doubt the FBI would be involved. This would be no local matter in real life. Think about this happening even now. Multiple mass shootings and deaths in 3 different states, (3 states that have very low crime rates compared to the rest of the country) this would be a national news story in real life.

[Portia]

The actor playing the asshole captain played a Klansman in "O Brother." My husband has a great eye. Picture the guy younger, thinner, and with round eyeglasses.

I for one loved that they followed through with the saucer, but I'm a UFO nut from way back. As a little girl in the '70s I would have given anything to see one. There were tons of sightings in a small Missouri town not 30 miles from my home.

I was really stunned not that Hanzee killed Floyd, but by the WAY he killed her. That was one of the most chilling things I've seen in a while .

[scrb]

I'll give Hawley some license since he's not pretending this is a procedural.

 

Plus he rally wanted to emphasize the local flavor of all the events.  Or more characters who talk funny.

[Mrs Shibbles]

The actor playing the asshole captain played a Klansman in "O Brother." My husband has a great eye. Picture the guy younger, thinner, and with round eyeglasses..

Yep! Homer Stokes! (Wayne Duvall)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3eTSbC3neA

(Starts around 1:22 mark)

[AuntiePam]

I was really stunned not that Hanzee killed Floyd, but by the WAY he killed her. That was one of the most chilling things I've seen in a while .

 

Oh yeah.  Stuff like that hits a nerve -- when someone you trust turns on you.  To give Hanzee some credit, he did tell Floyd not to come.  To take away that credit, he probably knew she'd see it as a challenge.  The man is cold.

Edited December 9, 2015 by AuntiePam

[Bama]

 

He knows that Peggy and Ed know the motel (because that's where the seminar would take place). It's not unreasonable to guess that Ed told Mike to meet him there and that the police would follow through on that.

The seminar and Constance were at a different motel than the Motor Motel where the Sioux Falls Massacre took place.

 

As Lou crossed the state line, the radio call he got was a courtesy call from the Sioux Falls PD letting them know someone from Luverne (Constance) had been murdered in their jurisdiction at the South Nik Motel.  Lou knew it had to be connected to all the murders and that Hanzee was most likely involved and he hesitated and then turned around and went back to check it out.

 

As he was leaving the South Nik Motel, he saw a convoy of cars and saw that Floyd and Bear were in one of the trucks.  He realized they were headed to the Motor Motel and tried to warn Hank and the other cops but they were radio silent.

[craziness]

Why was water dripping off, or rain coming off, the UFO? Does anyone think it's related to the convenience store parking lot being wet (except where the red El Dorado had been sitting). We hadn't seen any rain while hanzee and the police were at the cabin. ... maybe the UFO made a visit to the convenience store?