S02.E08: Loplop

[shapeshifter]

I also think the shorter season length gives them more freedom with the budget to draw better talent too.

Yes, and here that advantage was obviously used to its greatest advantage. I've praised those given credit for casting in other posts, but with each successive episode I wonder if part of the brilliance of the choices was also owing to input from others associated with the show. I would welcome interviews that reveal the process.

And not only did Jeffrey Donovan once again deliver a perfect performance as Dodd, he died at the optimal point in a series of this length: The audience was able to fully relish his deserved demise, but it will not eclipse the final denouements of Peggy and Ed, whatever they may be.

[Juliegirlj]

For the sake of argument, IF Peggy were actually charged with hitting and killing Rye Gerhardt, any good lawyer would argue that she didn't come forward because she realized who he was and feared for her own safety. No, she didn't know at first, but doesn't matter. In retrospect, the cops were not able to protect them, so it kind of proves she was right to not come forward.

[Jodithgrace]

But, OTOH, if Peggy had brought him right to the ER or called the police when the accident happened, the Gerhardts wouldn't have any real reason to hold a grudge against her. Rye WAS in the middle of the road after a murder spree. Hitting him was an accident. Rye's death (murder) only occurred when he tried to escape the Blomquist's garage.

[Inquisitionist]

There really wasn't enough Lou and Hank, as well as not enough Mike Milligan.

 

As good as the episode was, I felt the lack of Lou, Hank and Mike.  Glad we'll see all the main players again soon!

[jnymph]

Agree there was not enough Lou this episode.  He's really bringing the sexy. Love him.   Hank too. :)

 

Usually I abhor alien plotlines, but the one in this series has me intrigued.

[Corgi-ears]

I doubt it, although I suppose there's a chance (Hanzee let the friendly shopkeep live, after all). Poor Constance. All she wanted was to seduce Peggy, and for her trouble, she ends up dead.

 

 

I actually think the fate of the storekeeper is as up in the air as the fate of Constance. Both scenes end in similar abrupt, premature fashion. (The episode actually had three of those sequences -- we cut away from Constance, we cut away from Peggy when she realises that Dodd was loose, and we cut away from the storekeeper when he picks up the phone to call the police. The latter two sequences also had similar swelling music in the background.) We see him pick up the newspaper, make the connection, and pick up the phone. What we don't hear is the sound of Hanzee's pickup driving away, so it's entirely possible that he will come back into the store and take care of business. 

[Ohwell]

For the sake of argument, IF Peggy were actually charged with hitting and killing Rye Gerhardt, any good lawyer would argue that she didn't come forward because she realized who he was and feared for her own safety. No, she didn't know at first, but doesn't matter. In retrospect, the cops were not able to protect them, so it kind of proves she was right to not come forward.

But if you buy that argument that she feared for her own safety, why would she hide a dangerous criminal in her garage? 

[SoothingDave]

I'm no closer to understanding why Hanzee was so loyal to Dodd in particular to the point of adhering to a dangerous lie, even when Bear offered him an out, especially now that we know that Hanzee deeply resented the way Dodd treated him. Why was he so loyal to Dodd for so long and only now snapped? I'm sure it wasn't the first time Dodd called Hanzee a half-breed or a mongrel. Wouldn't Hanzee have gotten tired of Dodd's bullshit ages ago?

 

 

 

Hanzee finally actualized.  

 

Seriously, he took advantage of the opportunity.  Dodd was presumed dead.  He had people he could blame the death on.  And he'd had enough crap for one day.

 

 

I think Hanzee knew exactly the kind of reception he'd get in the bar--he did, after all, see what the locals did to and in front of the sign outside. He was either spoiling for a fight or genuinely thought he could find some information on Ed in there. Maybe both.

 

 

I froze the image to try to figure it out, but still don't know what was supposed to be on the "Wounded Knee" sign.  Looked red.  

[A Boston Gal]

Usually I abhor alien plotlines, but the one in this series has me intrigued.

I'm venturing it's because this is such a small but consistant part of every episode. So much is going on with Ed, Peggy, various Gerharts, etc., that I practically forget there's some kind of UFO stuff happening concurrently...but then, boom! There's Hank's den, or some strange lights, or ghostly figures, and we're reminded that "Oh yeah, something's up with this as well." Love the subtlety, because that's not usually associated with alien visitations, assuming that's what's happening. Or mass psychosis.

 

Also want to mention how hard Constance tried to get Peggy to give up her location. I have high hopes she's still unscathed because she couldn't have pushed more for that info if she was a Gerhart herself. Hope Hanzee appreciated that.

[Nutjob]

I froze the image to try to figure it out, but still don't know what was supposed to be on the "Wounded Knee" sign.  Looked red.

Someone barfed, IMO very pointedly, right below the sign. At first I thought they had peed on the wall, too, but that just might've been residuals from the vomit. Which... eww.

[ChipBach]

For the sake of argument, IF Peggy were actually charged with hitting and killing Rye Gerhardt, any good lawyer would argue that she didn't come forward because she realized who he was and feared for her own safety. No, she didn't know at first, but doesn't matter. In retrospect, the cops were not able to protect them, so it kind of proves she was right to not come forward.

 

 

But, OTOH, if Peggy had brought him right to the ER or called the police when the accident happened, the Gerhardts wouldn't have any real reason to hold a grudge against her. Rye WAS in the middle of the road after a murder spree. Hitting him was an accident. Rye's death (murder) only occurred when he tried to escape the Blomquist's garage.

 

Peggy's lawyer would only have to plead insanity and they'd be right.

[Conan Troutman]

That first half of the episode had me in stitches. Peggy's such a blast, I couldn't stop laughing. I'd watch the hell out of a spinoff about just Peggy and Ed wreaking havoc. Jeffery Donovan's performance was also great, you almost felt sorry for Dodd. Key word is almost, Dodd really outdid himself this episode. That was a well deserved bullet to the head.

 

I wondered what the punchline of the Hanzee character would be, but now we got it and it certainly didn't disappoint. Although I'm curious how the gods of karma will judge his other killings this episode. Those cops sure were racist, but killing them was a bit extreme, same for the barkeep. But he didn't harm the more friendly shopkeeper and I doubt he killed Peggy's boss. She was very cooperative, so my guess is he just tied her up so that he'll get enough time to finish his job. So he might make it out alive after all.

 

I think that after the earlier experiences of the day, where he was being harassed for being a Native American by the bartender spitting in his water, and those guys giving him shit in the parking lot, it was just his breaking point. He could stand it before, but that incident was the straw that broke the camel's back. And then after he finds Dodd and tries to save him, all Dodd does is insult him and throw epithets at him? That's why he killed him.

 

That certainly was the emotional part. But there's also a rational part: He simply couldn't have done it even if he wanted - the Gerhardt family was pretty stable before the KC mob intervened and there was no way for Hanzee to act on it before. Had he killed Dodd, the rest of the Gerhardts certainly would've exacted revenge, no matter how much of an ass Dodd was. Even now he can't go back because Bear would kill him. Simply quitting the job and walking away probably wasn't possible back then, either. Now that everything is in shambles and the Gerhardts aren't really capable of chasing after him, he might've recognized the opportunity to off him and get the hell out of there. 

[cpcathy]

Why would Bear kill Hanzee?

[Chaos Theory]

But, OTOH, if Peggy had brought him right to the ER or called the police when the accident happened, the Gerhardts wouldn't have any real reason to hold a grudge against her. Rye WAS in the middle of the road after a murder spree. Hitting him was an accident. Rye's death (murder) only occurred when he tried to escape the Blomquist's garage.

The Gethardts are gangsters. They've held grudges for alot less. It wouldn't matter how or why Peggy killed Rye. The fact that she did would mean she would be killed. It is a matter of honor. They wouldn't be able to show their face at any gangster picnics if they didn't get bloody revenge.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[SoothingDave]

Why would Bear kill Hanzee?

 

You don't get to be a crime family by letting people kill your family members and go unpunished.  

 

Bear was willing to leave Dodd "lost and presumed dead" so he could be in charge, but if he knew that his brother was murdered (and by a close associate), he would have to avenge the death.

 

I think if Hanzee had a plan, it was to pin the death of Dodd on Ed and Peggy.

[Eyes High]

In retrospect, the cops were not able to protect them, so it kind of proves she was right to not come forward.

 

Sure, in the Ed at police station/Peggy at the house situation. However, that was when Ed and Peggy had already refused Lou's help. If they'd thrown themselves on his mercy and confessed everything, he might have been able to smuggle them away and make sure that they were properly protected.

 

But, OTOH, if Peggy had brought him right to the ER or called the police when the accident happened, the Gerhardts wouldn't have any real reason to hold a grudge against her. Rye WAS in the middle of the road after a murder spree. Hitting him was an accident. Rye's death (murder) only occurred when he tried to escape the Blomquist's garage.

 

I think Dodd would probably carry the day with a "We don't want to look weak"-type argument. How will it look if other people can just go around killing our own without consequences, blah blah blah? Even if Floyd put her foot down, I have no doubt that Dodd would just go ahead and do it anyway and either lie about it or tell Floyd that she made the wrong call. I wouldn't put it past him.

 

I actually think the fate of the storekeeper is as up in the air as the fate of Constance.

 

Hmm. Good point. I hadn't thought of it that way.

 

Peggy's lawyer would only have to plead insanity and they'd be right.

 

The show's been pretty good about slowly pulling back the curtain on the extent of Peggy's mental illness. We had hints before--Peggy refusing to acknowledge the seriousness of her situation, e.g.--but the first real sign was the Basement of Hoarding. Hank then lampshaded the problem when coolly undercutting Peggy's insistence on the need for her to make the conference on time with a "You're a little touched, aren't ya?" And then in 2x08 we have Peggy having a full conversation with someone who isn't there, which quite properly alarms Dodd, Peggy stabbing Dodd when he won't mind his manners, and Dodd calling Peggy crazy (or words to that effect) several times. Dodd's not the sharpest knife in the drawer (unfortunate pun not intended), but he's right about Peggy.

 

Lou's problems in dealing with Ed and Peggy is that he's been expecting them to react the way rational people react. Trying to reason with them is completely the wrong approach.

 

The Gethardts are gangsters. They've held grudges for alot less. It wouldn't matter how or why Peggy killed Rye. The fact that she did would mean she would be killed. It is a matter of honor. They wouldn't be able to show their face at any gangster picnics if they didn't get bloody revenge.

 

Agreed.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Eyes High

[cpcathy]

And we know a Gangster picnic with the Gerhardts would have a lot of bread!

[Conan Troutman]

Why would Bear kill Hanzee?

 

Maybe he wouldn't, but Hanzee can't count on that. Before the events of the show, had Hanzee killed Dodd he certainly would've been killed. And even now I don't know how Floyd and Bear would react to this. They may be glad they got rid of a problem (Bear more than Floyd), but that doesn't mean they can just let Hanzee get away with it, if only because they may view it as an assault against the whole family. Maybe they'd let it fly, maybe not, but if I were Hanzee, I wouldn't take my chances.

 

There really wasn't enough Lou and Hank, as well as not enough Mike Milligan.

 

True, but last episode had no Peggy and very little Ed. So I'm more than fine with a Peggy and Ed centric episode, especially since Peggy is by far my favorite right now. She's just loads of fun and positively bonkers. She reminds me of Alison Hendrix from Orphan Black in that way. 

As for Hank, Netflix (they have first run rights for a couple of European countries) got me a good scare when they showed the screen cap where he's lying on the wheel barrow  with his eyes closed as if he were dead or seriously hurt as the preview picture for this episode. That had to deliberate, so here's a sarcastic "thank you" for whoever is responsible. 

 

It's a bit of a stretch that Lou and Hank would be the first and only cops on the scene because of the description of the man Hanzee was looking for... after all Hanzee himself was wanted for killing two cops... when the report was made that he was spotted law enforcement probably wouldn't care much about who he was searching for. I can give that a pass though.

 

Yeah, the show isn't really high on the realism part. But that's fine and fits well in the Coen verse, where it's some sort of heightened reality at best. So if they're ignoring logic or real life demands here and there in order to make it a more satisfying show, it doesn't come across as "off" or lazy writing in the same way it would be in other shows. Hannibal was very similar in that regard.

 

The funny thing is..this whole season has been leading up to the so called "Massacre at Sioux Falls, " but I can't help wondering..who is left to get massacred? We've lost almost all of the Gerhardts excepting Mom and Bear, and all of the opposite crew as well, excepting Mike Milligan and the lone Kitchen Brother. Hanzee has already created a mini-massacre on his own on his way to "rescue" Dodd. What in heaven's name is going to happen to earn that moniker? One thing I'm sure of, is that it won't be quite what we were expecting. 

 

Good point. I guess it can only involve a lot of anonymous henchmen and cops. And/or maybe the massacre part refers more to the quality of the slaughtering, not so much the quantity.

 

I know this is going to sound harsh. The thing about Peggy and Ed is not that they are lucky, exactly. They also may not be idiot savants and are doing all the right things and not knowing how or why those things work.

 

I think they are too dumb to die. I can't help but consider that old saying whenever they survive. As characters go, they may just be too dumb to know how to die.

 

Obviously, the way things work out for them is meant to be, and are, funny, intentionally funny. But, Peggy does come off as kinda loopy and Ed is single-minded (wanting a Normal life) but intent on doing all the wrong things and believing he can reset the clock to Normal. So far, all works out for the two of them, even when it goes horribly wrong, but it really won't work out for them like they believe it will. Obviously.

 

That said, I have no idea how their fates or most of the characters' fates will play out. That's what makes this seasons' new characters more interesting for me.

 

They're really just a (sensationally well done) take on the "bumbling fool causes lots of chaos" trope. And I think that works perfectly fine in this heightened reality kind of world. On a more realistic show, they would've been long dead, but here I think they'll make it out alive and (relatively) unscathed.

 

To me, the show seems to be rather predictable (not that this is a bad thing) as far as the fates of the characters are concerned, precisely because of the more artistic than realistic world. Of the major characters, none of the deaths came as a surprise to me. I made a list on the basis of how one would expect the characters to end (up) if the main cause of death was karma a couple of episodes ago, and so far it seems the approach is pretty accurate: Bad karma demanded that Dodd, Otto and Simone would die and none of the characters with good karma have died as of yet.

 

I get what you are saying about Ed and Peggy. I don't think it is harsh, it is very accurate analysis of the characters.

I love the format of this show too.

With new characters each season, it opens a creative level that most shows don't have. The writers aren't constrained by next season.

They can tell a better story this way.

I think it is a refreshing change from the standard model of a TV series.

I also think the shorter season length gives them more freedom with the budget to draw better talent too.

 

Agree, I hope we'll be seeing more shows like this. I guess VOD is a good place for this, more so than the networks. So hopefully Netflix and Amazon are taking notes.

[Eyes High]

I know this is going to sound harsh. The thing about Peggy and Ed is not that they are lucky, exactly.

 

I disagree. They are extremely lucky (and these are just off the top of my head!):

 

1. No witnesses when Peggy hits Rye.

2. An improvised weapon is on hand when Rye comes at Ed with a knife.

3. Charlie misses when he shoots at Ed.

4. Noreen distracts Virgil at a crucial moment, allowing Ed to get the upper hand and kill Virgil.

5. Dodd killed one of his own henchmen. (Peggy took down Dodd, but could she have survived two-on-one?)

6. Dodd drops a weapon that Peggy can use against him to incapacitate him.

7. Lou is at the police station with Ed and is smart enough to save him from Hanzee.

8. Hanzee goes on a rampage to put his name in the papers when Lou is trying to track Hanzee down, which allows the shopkeep to identify him and contact the police.

9. Hank and Lou arrive at the right moment to force Hanzee to flee before he murders Ed and Peggy.

10. Hanzee shoots at Ed at close range, but is out of bullets.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Eyes High

[lidarose9]

I think the reason Peggy didn't call the cops when she hit Rye is cuz she was going to Sioux Falls for her conference in a few days. She was obsessed with that. If she reported the accident, she might have to miss the seminar. That was all she was thinking about. The point is that Peggy is bonkers, but she is functional, so people don't realize. Even Ed doesn't realize until he comes home and finds a nearly dead guy in the garage. 

 

Something about how Ed and Peggy keep on keeping on is not only in character but relevant to the time and place. I grew up a few miles from both Sioux Falls and Luverne. People there are great minimizers and normalizers. If 30" of snow falls in 2 days, you might comment, "Got a little snow, huh?" Ed and Peggy are people who just do what has to be done and don't make a fuss about it. It takes someone who understands this kind of dynamic to make fun of it so effectively. I appreciate that about this show!

 

Also -- it could be that Dodd only had time to whack Peggy on the head before he heard Ed's tires outside and had to improvise quick with the rope. I'd like to know how he got out of the ropes. Maybe they will circle back around and show us this next week.

 

I also want to say, having grown up there in the 1970s, there indeed was overt tension between Indians and non-Indians, especially in Sioux Falls, where the American Indian Movement had its headquarters. The shoot-out at Wounded Knee was recent and still very much in peoples' minds. 

 

I also want to say that during the mid- to late-70s in that part of the world, mysterious cattle mutilations were happening. Farmers would find a half dismembered cow with no sign of how anybody had managed the job: no blood soaked into the ground, no tire tracks in a muddy pasture, no lights seen. It happened a lot. It was spooky and weird and a lot of people were talking about aliens, half-joking but half-serious. Losing a cow was a big deal money-wise and it was a crime and so the farmer would report it to the police, so I can understand why Ted Danson might start keeping maps and records. It was a mystery, and still is. 

 

AWESOME music again -- "I Got A Line On You" by Spirit playing on the radio in the car. Fantastic song, great band! As if "Locomotive Breath" wasn't awesome enough. God, I love this show. 

Edited December 2, 2015 by lidarose9

[Eyes High]

I think the reason Peggy didn't call the cops when she hit Rye is cuz she was going to Sioux Falls for her conference in a few days. She was obsessed with that. If she reported the accident, she might have to miss the seminar. That was all she was thinking about. The point is that Peggy is bonkers, but she is functional, so people don't realize. Even Ed doesn't realize until he comes home and finds a nearly dead guy in the garage. 

 

Something about how Ed and Peggy keep on keeping on is not only in character but relevant to the time and place. I grew up a few miles from both Sioux Falls and Luverne. People there are great minimizers and normalizers. If 30" of snow falls in 2 days, you might comment, "Got a little snow, huh?" Ed and Peggy are people who just do what has to be done and don't make a fuss about it. It takes someone who understands this kind of dynamic to make fun of it so effectively. I appreciate that about this show!

 

Also -- it could be that Dodd only had time to whack Peggy on the head before he heard Ed's tires outside and had to improvise quick with the rope. I'd like to know how he got out of the ropes. Maybe they will circle back around and show us this next week.

 

I also want to say, having grown up there in the 1970s, there indeed was overt tension between Indians and non-Indians, especially in Sioux Falls, where the American Indian Movement had its headquarters. The shoot-out at Wounded Knee was recent and still very much in peoples' minds. 

 

I also want to say that during the mid- to late-70s in that part of the world, mysterious cattle mutilations were happening. Farmers would find a half dismembered cow with no sign of how anybody had managed the job: no blood soaked into the ground, no tire tracks in a muddy pasture, no lights seen. It happened a lot. It was spooky and weird and a lot of people were talking about aliens, half-joking but half-serious. Losing a cow was a big deal money-wise and it was a crime and so the farmer would report it to the police, so I can understand why Ted Danson might start keeping maps and records. It was a mystery, and still is. 

 

AWESOME music again -- "I Got A Line On You" by Spirit playing on the radio in the car. Fantastic song, great band! As if "Locomotive Breath" wasn't awesome enough. God, I love this show. 

 

The music was fantastic in this episode. I loved the drumline at the end.

[Nutjob]

 

AWESOME music again -- "I Got A Line On You" by Spirit playing on the radio in the car. Fantastic song, great band! As if "Locomotive Breath" wasn't awesome enough. God, I love this show.

"I Got A Line On You" was also used in the trailer for "Burn After Reading"--a little nod to the Coens there.

[CynicalGirl]

The Gethardts are gangsters. They've held grudges for alot less. It wouldn't matter how or why Peggy killed Rye. The fact that she did would mean she would be killed. It is a matter of honor. They wouldn't be able to show their face at any gangster picnics if they didn't get bloody revenge.

Yep, like the poor guy who had the misfortune of killing John Gotti's son in a car vs. mini-bike collision. The accident wasn't his fault, but he still disappeared from the face of the earth shortly thereafter. 

[roughing it]

Looking at the big picture, what will Floyd do to Bear when she finds out he murdered Simone?  Will she be the lone Gerhardt in the end?

[cpcathy]

My favorite music pieces so far have been "Man of Constant Sorrow" and the piece from War of the Worlds, just brilliant.

[SunnyBeBe]

So, is that what the Sheriff's daughter found hanging in the sheriff's office? Were they drawings of UFO investigations.  Does that tie in with the UFO the Gerhardt son saw just before he got hit by the car?

[ToastnBacon]

So, is that what the Sheriff's daughter found hanging in the sheriff's office? Were they drawings of UFO investigations. Does that tie in with the UFO the Gerhardt son saw just before he got hit by the car?

I don't think it was drawings of investigations, but possibly an alien alphabet.

Most likely stuff he read in books that claims to be UFO symbology, but is of very questionable origin and accuracy. Fraudulent in other words.

I'm guessing Hank saw something in the sky at some point and started reading books on UFOs.

Edited December 2, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[SoothingDave]

Looking at the big picture, what will Floyd do to Bear when she finds out he murdered Simone?  Will she be the lone Gerhardt in the end?

 

Simone was sleeping with the enemy.  Her little phone call got the family HQ shot up and Otto killed.  

 

You think Floyd is fine with all that cause Simone is a girl?  I don't.  

[ToastnBacon]

My favorite music pieces so far have been "Man of Constant Sorrow" and the piece from War of the Worlds, just brilliant.

There has been some great music in this season.

[roughing it]

 

You think Floyd is fine with all that cause Simone is a girl?  I don't.

I never said Floyd would be ok with it because "Simone is a girl". 

 

Floyd did not know Simone was sleeping with the enemy.  She was grooming her to be a leader in the family, so obviously they had a strong bond.  We don't know if Simone's mother was in her life, or was Grandma her mother figure?

 

Also, Floyd may not ever find out that Bear killed Simone.  So my initial thought may be for naught.  Just spitballin' here.

[shapeshifter]

Hanzee finally actualized.

Hee! If he'd gotten the haircut, he could've probably led the frickin' seminar!

Those cops sure were racist, but killing them was a bit extreme, same for the barkeep.

Meh, they were definitely beyond rehabilitation, IMO.

Hanzee is now free to kill anyone and everyone because his world has imploded and he is ready for the next, also IMO.

I think we are already seeing the first stages of what is to become known as "The Sioux Falls Massacre." The racist cops, bar patrons, and barkeep were all in Sioux Falls, right? The cabin were Dodd has died is probably considered to be in the Sioux Falls environs. Constance is in Sioux Falls for the seminar, and, as someone upthread mentioned, Hanzee was stroking her hair just like the rabbit's fur. Did I leave out any other casualties in the SF area that we've seen so far?

Is the episode title, "Loplop" a reference to lopping off hair, or...?

[islandgal140]

One little thing I found interesting was that I thought Ed would ask for money from Mike in exchange for Dodd. You know to kickstart a new life in a new city, but no he just wants to make sure that Mike can get the Gerhardts off his and Peggy's back, which makes me wonder if his plan is to actually try going back to Luverne and getting his life back. Peggy seems thrilled to have cast the shackles of Luverne and his parent's hand me down house behind and set off on a new life of adventure and she ain't looking back now that she is fully actualized.

 

Hanzee and the chatty shopkeeps conversation about a fat red head, where the shopkeep assumed he was talking about a woman, was too funny to me. 

 

It bugged me that the milk carton and cereal boxes were obviously empty.  Happens in every show.  Just put some weight in the damn boxes!

 

And don't forget empty coffee cups. That drives me nutso. 

 

I was actually quite skeptical when I heard Kirsten Dunst was cast in S2. I have been mostly apathetic towards her but WOW has she blown me away. 

Edited December 2, 2015 by islandgal140

[AuntiePam]

 

Is the episode title, "Loplop" a reference to lopping off hair, or...?

 

From Wiki: "Loplop is the name of a birdlike character featured in prints, collages and paintings by artist Max Ernst. Loplop was an alter ego which Ernst developed and functioned as a familiar animal.  Loplop first appeared in Ernst's collage novels La Femme 100 Têtes and Une Semaine de Bonté in the role of a narrator and commentator."

 

So, an alter ego, like Clark Kent and Superman, I suppose.  Batman and Bruce Wayne.

 

Ed Blumquist, a butcher from Luverne, and Ed Blumquist, The Butcher of Luverne.  ?? 

 

Or Peggy, before and after she was "actualized".

[Chaos Theory]

One little thing I found interesting was that I thought Ed would ask for money from Mike in exchange for Dodd. You know to kickstart a new life in a new city, but no he just wants to make sure that Mike can get the Gerhardts off his and Peggy's back, which makes me wonder if his plan is to actually try going back to Luverne and getting his life back. Peggy seems thrilled to have cast the shackles of Luverne and his parent's hand me down house behind and set off on a new life of adventure and she ain't looking back now that she is fully actualized.

 

 

That is the difference between Ed and Peggy.  Ed wants it all just to stop so he can go back to his simple life.  I have the impression that Peggy has never been happier.  She is enjoying the adventure.  I don't think she would go back even if she could.    I don't think Peggy is a bad person per se  I think she was a deeply unhappy one who used a moments sudden decision to bring about the happiness and life she has always wanted.  Damn the consequences.  

[Bort]

Looking at the big picture, what will Floyd do to Bear when she finds out he murdered Simone?  Will she be the lone Gerhardt in the end?

There's still other Gerharts floating around. Charlie's in jail and Dodd has three other daughters we haven't seen.

[shapeshifter]

and Dodd has three other daughters we haven't seen.

I know he said that, but I wasn't convinced since it followed something like, "I'm not a bad person...I've got four daughters." Plus, this is the first we've heard about any other daughters besides Simone. Still, he could have 3 other daughters who left town without looking back because Dad was abusive. Edited December 3, 2015 by shapeshifter

[WearyTraveler]

I know he said that, but I wasn't convinced since it followed something like, "I'm not a bad person...I've got four daughters." Plus, this is the first we've heard about any other daughters besides Simone. Still, he could have 3 other daughters who left town without looking back because Dad was abusive.

 

A few episodes back, I don't remember which one, there was a conversation at the compound where Dodd said something about wanting a son and God only giving him daughters, in plural (IIRC, he was talking about him having girls and Bear having a boy with a maimed hand).  So, maybe it's not four, but he's got more than one, apparently.

 

Perhaps they are with their mother (mothers?).  The other Gerhardt women are as elusive as the aliens :D

[knaankos]

I do not like how race has been brought up in the past couple of episodes. We have gone almost the entire season with no mention of Milligan or Hanzee's race, it was;t much of a factor at all in the early parts of the season. Now out of nowhere they throw in some racial hate toward each of them, making it an issue. Is this supposed to make us forgive their murders?

[BetyBee]

This show just gets better and better.  There's so much to unpack that I don't know where to begin.  So good that I had to re-watch and I'd do it again.  Every actor is selling it and the story might well be described as "Aces!"  So many memorable lines and every character is fleshed out.  I don't hold out much hope for Constance, but I do think Hanzee let the chatty shopkeeper live.  I like how the drunk at the bar slept through all the shooting.  I can't even begin to guess what will happen next week.  

[rhys]

're: the 4 daughters, Simone said something to Mike about the shootout and being pissed off that Mike & crew shot up a house that had little kids sleeping in it. So maybe those kids were Dodd's other daughters.

Edited December 3, 2015 by rhys

[ToastnBacon]

I do not like how race has been brought up in the past couple of episodes. We have gone almost the entire season with no mention of Milligan or Hanzee's race, it was;t much of a factor at all in the early parts of the season. Now out of nowhere they throw in some racial hate toward each of them, making it an issue. Is this supposed to make us forgive their murders?

While there were a couple of posters upthread who seemed to think that Hanzee was justified in killing the bartender, I don't think the writers were sending us that message.

I wouldn't come to the conclusion that having a racial slur tossed one's way is green light to commit murder.

Racism happens in real life, so I don't have a problem with it being depicted in TV shows.

[MrWhyt]

For me, Constance is arguably the most evil of all the characters.  I was very pleased to see her as a hostage.  I'll be happy to learn that Hanzee killed her in some elaborate/stylistic fashion.  

Remind me again, how many murders has she committed?

[AuntiePam]

I do not like how race has been brought up in the past couple of episodes. We have gone almost the entire season with no mention of Milligan or Hanzee's race, it was;t much of a factor at all in the early parts of the season. Now out of nowhere they throw in some racial hate toward each of them, making it an issue. Is this supposed to make us forgive their murders?

 

We didn't see any overt racism in early episodes, but I think the writers expected us to know it's been there, and that Mike and Hanzee have had to deal with it.  We've seen Mike over-compensate with the way he talks, the literary references.  We Hanzee taking orders, never being consulted.  Yeah, Bear says "You're family", but he knows he's an outsider, and that he's expected to be grateful. 

 

It's 1979, in the Midwest.  Even if we don't see it, we should assume that both Mike and Hanzee have had to deal with a lot of racist shit.

[lidarose9]

I do not like how race has been brought up in the past couple of episodes. We have gone almost the entire season with no mention of Milligan or Hanzee's race, it was;t much of a factor at all in the early parts of the season. Now out of nowhere they throw in some racial hate toward each of them, making it an issue. Is this supposed to make us forgive their murders?

 

Whatever gave you the idea this show is portraying moral characters? This whole show is about people doing the wrong thing!

[shapeshifter]

Whatever gave you the idea this show is portraying moral characters? This whole show is about people doing the wrong thing!

 

--except for Hank, Lou, Peggy, and maybe the store clerk at the lake.

Ed started out moral, and I think he still believes he can return there, but after you've ground up an entire human body into hamburger--well, no amount of Hamburger Helper is going to undo that. Heh. Maybe that's what he was thinking of when he bought it. I didn't see any actual hamburger to go with it. Hmmm...do you suppose he was thinking of Dodd...? Nah.

Peggy was "a little touched" to start with. She probably never had any empathy. Now that she's traded in magazine hoarding for knife wielding, I think her best outcome would be institutionalization, whether psychiatric or prison. I just don't think humans or small animals would ever be safe so long as she is roaming free.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Lisin
changed Betsey to Peggy at shapeshifter's request :)

[hoosiermom]

I can't remember. Did we actually SEE bear kill Simone or was it simply inferred?

[shapeshifter]

I can't remember. Did we actually SEE bear kill Simone or was it simply inferred?

We do not yet know for sure if Simone or Constance have been killed by Bear or Hanzee respectively.

[SoothingDave]

Ed didn't buy the Hamburger Helper.  He just looked at it.  

[ToastnBacon]

Ed didn't buy the Hamburger Helper.  He just looked at it.

That is about all I'll do to Hamburger Helper too.

The happy little glove mascot, who sounds suspiciously like the Pillsbury Doughboy, is a friend to lazy moms everywhere.

When I was kid I gobbled that crap up, but not now.

[Milburn Stone]

It's 1979, in the Midwest.  Even if we don't see it, we should assume that both Mike and Hanzee have had to deal with a lot of racist shit.

 

And 2015, everywhere. Like you, I know they've been dealing with racism, whether explicitly shown in episodes or not.