B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[slayer2]

15 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Kyle Lowder Rick (I think he's DOOL Rick).

Ohhhhh! Well that makes a certain kind of sense. That guy looked permanently thirsty and Jackie was pretty good-looking TBH!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Why was nuHope still wearing the same outfit from when she first showed up? We know it's not the same day. Oy, it's like nuThorne all over again. ?

Sally and Hope, instafriends? Bonding over Liam's trials and tribulations with yet a third woman? That makes as much sense to me as Katie playing mother hen to Steffy.

I thought I might be getting whiplash from watching Liam pretty much apologize to Steffy for running out on her. Then, oh wait, he pulled out the cold steel knives again as she stood there making cow eyes while grabbing at her rib cage.

That poor baby, already expected by Steffy to save her marriage.

[mightysparrow]

Haudilox isn't just loathsome, she's also stupider than a bag of rocks.  If she wasn't so stupid and so self-involved, she'd realize that her husband can't stand to look at her.  It's obvious that the sight of her makes Liam want to throw up.  Liam wants to be a good father and does love his unborn child.  He's just trying to figure out how to handle loving his child while it's buried in the carcass of a woman he loathes.

Steffy can play the poor victim but it's not like Liam has never told her what he REALLY thinks about her.  Hey Hauxdi, remember when Liam found you in bed with Wyatt?  We might not be going through all this bullshit if Quinn hadn't carted Liam off to Captive Cabin.  It's been a long, long time since Liam REALLY loved Steffy, no matter how many times he's married her.

It's no surprise that Hope reached for a teapot during her conversation with Sally.  People have been spilling tea on the poor woman ever since she landed at LAX.  I really like Sally, but she's taking a lot for granted, such as that Hope 'loves and admires Liam as much as she does'.  We don't know how Hope feels about anything because she hasn't been able to get a word in edgewise since she came home.

[grisgris]

I'm also tired of seeing Katie and Wyatt lolling around in bed all the time.  I would think that "sex only" couples would be bored with just that by now and either decide to take the relationship public and date, attend family functions together, etc., or move on to somebody else.  Why on earth does Katie think it's their job to "fix" Steam's marriage?  I thought maybe we'd see a bitter divide of the Spencer "bros" against Katie/Steffy. Otherwise, I'd rather see Watie taking Liam's side and leaving Hauxdi out in the cold.

I felt that JMW backslid quite a bit today in her scenes with SC. The best was when she got all indignant and ordered Liam to return to her by telling him he didn't have a choice. LOVED LOVED LOVED his response, "You had a choice about sleeping with your husband's father." B-U-R-N.

BTW, did JMW have a microblade procedure in the midst of filming those scenes. Her brows all of a sudden looked very heavy and dark.

I am not sure how I felt about Sally talking to Hope about Liam. Hope's reaction to the news that Liam walked out on Steffy wasn't lost on me. Sally should have kept her mouth shut and kept on walking towards the elevator after she introduced herself to Hope. It would be so much more rewarding to see those two team up to revive HFTF at Spectra than having catfights over Liam.

CountryGirl, I feel your pain. Writing PAs then having to deliver the news to direct reports was one of the things I hated most about past jobs.

[MarshallB6]

“Please don’t think that I’m here to gossip,” says Sally to Hope.

Why would we think that?!! Just because you literally JUST met her and are sharing personal information about Steffy and Liam along with your speculations? D’uh, that’s what gossip is. 

“It’s just, you know, once I saw you, I realized here’s somebody that cares about Liam just as much as I do,” she continues. 

Try ‘met you’ in place of ‘saw you.’ Sally’s so-called knowledge of Hope and Liam’s relationship would be based on gossip and hearsay. 

 If the writers want us to buy Hope’s “goodness” they shouldn’t have her engaging in gossip with someone she just met (ditto on Sally). And, if we’re supposed to buy the insta-friendship / insta-connection between these two, they should have found a better way.

On a positive note, I love Hope’s blazer, including the combination of it with the striped blouse. 

[ByaNose]

1 hour ago, MarshallB6 said:

“Please don’t think that I’m here to gossip,” says Sally to Hope.

Why would we think that?!! Just because you literally JUST met her and are sharing personal information about Steffy and Liam along with your speculations? D’uh, that’s what gossip is. 

“It’s just, you know, once I saw you, I realized here’s somebody that cares about Liam just as much as I do,” she continues. 

Try ‘met you’ in place of ‘saw you.’ Sally’s so-called knowledge of Hope and Liam’s relationship would be based on gossip and hearsay. 

 If the writers want us to buy Hope’s “goodness” they shouldn’t have her engaging in gossip with someone she just met (ditto on Sally). And, if we’re supposed to buy the insta-friendship / insta-connection between these two, they should have found a better way.

On a positive note, I love Hope’s blazer, including the combination of it with the striped blouse. 

I’m kind of surprised that Hope is still wearing the same blazer. I didn’t realize that the baby reveal started the same day Hope arrived as Brooke’s. I thought several days have past since then. Unless, she’s wearing the blazer as a coat and is wearing different clothes underneath. Wait! Why am I worried about this? It’s just a soap. It isn’t real. LOL!!!!

[TobinAlbers]

Liam, here is what you do buddy.

First, go to your bank and move all your money out of any accounts Bill has control over. Talk to your financial planner to know how much money you got working for you. 

Next, go to your lawyer (your own, not one that works for Bill) and have them immediately file separation papers from Steffy so you can get this divorce started. Detail that you would like to be present for ultrasounds and appointments regarding the baby. Detail that unless it has to do with the child, Steffy can communicate to you through your lawyer. Also you may want to push for your own paternity test on this kid before you get too attached.

Look into a restraining order against Bill and be prepared to have it issued.

Next, in keeping with good faith that this is your child get yourself a nice house that you can present to the judge as a loving nurturing home for your child. Steffy is not to move in. You are not cohabiting with Steffy. If an urgent medical situation occurs then yes you may need to revisit this, but you do have the option of hiring top staff medical care to tend to your baby momma and also she's an heiress who can also pay for her care.

Next, go get a full physical to make sure your plumbing is indeed working (again to make sure you aren't blindsided), get a tetanus shot for that hand, and to rule out any STDs you may have gotten from Steffy's hump with your dad and to make sure you're tip top from a building falling on you.

Do yourself a favor and resist a revenge boink with Hope or Sally or nonsensical just sex with random people like Ivy. If you must have sex, get a vasectomy before you go romping. Don't bang your child's potential nanny if you decide to start interviewing early. Don't bang your lawyer. Don't bang Steffy's lawyer. 

Resist the urge to drown your sorrows in drugs or alcohol. Note that everything you do from now on will be viewed through the lens of how it can be used for or against you regarding the custody of your child.

Leave all things Spencer and Forrester the hell alone. Work for yourself. Start a tech consulting firm and hire Nicole as a programmer. 

Have patience with those around you who are trying to help but instigate a one strike rule. No one can appeal to you more than once about forgiving Bill and/or Steffy before the baby is born. Hear them out so you can say that you did. If they try again freeze them out for a period of six months upon which you will take their calls again unless they bring up Bill/Steffy again at which point delete their number from your phone. Yes, you've made mistakes in the past, but no you don't have to endure this bullshit repeatedly.

Revisit this game plan daily and adjust accordingly.

[LittleIggy]

6 hours ago, ByTor said:

I'm not sure how long you've been watching B&B, but that tub takes me back to Nick's mother Jackie (who 1st lived there & put the tub in the damn living room in the first place) and her always roaring because she was a "cougar."  I think I'm still traumatized by the time Rick had the hots for her!

That version of Rick’s tastes ran the gamut from teen Phoebe to cougar Jackie.

[Anna Yolei]

10 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I’m so sick of seeing Katie and Wyatt in bed. If that’s all their relationship is based on, it’s doomed.

Eh. Thorne and Darla began as a drunken ONS and ended up becoming the most solid couple in the show's entire history.

As mentioned, this has been the exceedingly rare casual, fun relationship where neither is pushing for marriage or commitment and has been all about fun. Katie just left an unfufilling marriage and has sent her entire adult life feeling inferior to her sisters; Wyatt has spent the last few years playing second fiddle to Liam, albeit by choice, and pushing marriages neither he or the women (nor Steffy) were ready for. It's been beyond time that these two had some damn fun. If only Brooke, early 2010's Hope, Ridge, Thorne, Liam 1.0 and the humanized cure for insomnia known as Zencole amongst others could do the same thing.

10 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

That baby is the ONLY reason Liam hasn't deleted Steffy's name from his phone or even stands to breath air in the same room. And she knows it

She's always known that. She knew that the first time she got pregnant after the 27438457th time Lope wuz wobbed and she ran to Paris because she wanted Liam to truly choose to be with her for her sake and not obligation. Of course, she did absolutely nothing to encourage a co-parenting relationship when he put that week's Lope wedding on hold to marry her after finding that out, because of course not. Also Taylor.

As an aside, it's also interesting that the woman who Steffy has wronged so many times was more willing to respect her privacy and not Taylor, her own mother who herself was on literally the same situation once and was trying to restrian herself like in this scene that I tried to link and not post (and can't clear):

 

7 hours ago, Waldo13 said:

It seems new Hope will be much more SoCal than old Hope. More of a Darlita than a Stuffy. 

NuHope seems more down to Earth. Old Hope was put on a pedestal that even with Steffy and Bill bullying her got tiresome. Back in the TWOP days, there was no Team Hope or Team Steffy, but Team Send Them Both to Paris and Focus on Literally Anything Else, because everyone treated Hope with kid gloves when someone should have told her to get over herself.

Kim Matula looked like the high class heir that Caroline Spencer was 3 decades ago, but this one seems far closer to what Brooke herself was at that time. So far, I dig it.

I also dig the chemistry between her and Sally in the scene I got to see on my ten minute break. There is...potential there. Yes. That's it. ?  Feel free to crib away from Legend of Korra for this one, board spies. I will LMAO if two of Liam's exes ever get together and realize they are better in bed to each other than Waffles* ever was.

*...I guess we gotta retire than name since he hasn't done much of that in a while. But damnit, that is a classic, just like Mulletor, Nick N. Sane and Taylips!

44 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

That version of Rick’s tastes ran the gamut from teen Phoebe to cougar Jackie.

Yeah, that was dark times, and probably the only time anyone ever agreed with me unironically to bring back Amber because that was far better than any relationship Rick had back then.

[tessaray]

1 hour ago, Anna Yolei said:

Yeah, that was dark times, and probably the only time anyone ever agreed with me unironically to bring back Amber because that was far better than any relationship Rick had back then.

As someone who has never seen Amber on this show (just Y&R) I would kind of like to see her, as long as it was AF and not a recast.  I haven't really liked Rick's stories since I've been watching these  last few years. (Though not right now... unless nuHope doesn't work out.) 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Why was nuHope still wearing the same outfit from when she first showed up? We know it's not the same day. Oy, it's like nuThorne all over again. ?

Quoting myself to say, again, "nevermind." I went back and scanned this week's episodes and Monday through Friday's events all happened on the same day. But, ugh, I hate when soaps do this stuff, especially when it seems like they're mainly doing it to save money on wardrobe changes. I'm not sure Y&R's new solution (one episode ~ one day) is the answer but surely there is a happy medium to be found. Meanwhile, I hope Hope isn't going to be reduced to wearing a bathing suit for several days like Thorne did...

[TobinAlbers]

8 hours ago, tessaray said:

As someone who has never seen Amber on this show (just Y&R) I would kind of like to see her, as long as it was AF and not a recast.  I haven't really liked Rick's stories since I've been watching these  last few years. (Though not right now... unless nuHope doesn't work out.) 

Amber coming back with lil Deacon in tow would be an absolute powder keg of a story for Rick, Maya, Hope, RJ, and Brooke. Rick faced with the first child he considered his own and loved and with a lot of emotional baggage to, Maya being resentful of this kid and their bond and having to deal with Amber (a true rival and a woman with real history with Rick), Hope forming a bond with her brother to RJ's jealousy, and Brooke able to get her claws back out as protective mother even as she relents with lil Deacon and as Donna plays Amber defended as Amber is the mother of Donna and Justin's granddaughter Rosie. Hell even Quinn would have some skin in this game as she would be the step-grandmother to the once adopted son of Rick and bio son of the man she tried to kill. 

This reminds me, Bill nearly killed Justin's granddaughter in utero when he tried to kill Amber. Does he know this? Could this be something to drive a wedge between him and Bill as Donna reminds him what a piece of scum he works for? Justin might not preach forgiveness then.

And let's not forget Sheila and Amber have history.

It is an umbrella story that galvanizes the Forresters and Logans and brings the bulk of them front and center in a meaty history driven story and even allows for touches on the Spencers. And Amber has history with the Spectras as CJ wanted to raise Lil Deacon as well! CJ could come back and be shocked to see the little boy now a man and could even suggest to Sally to give him and Amber a chance at Spectra. Also Amber supposedly has money from Kay's will, right? She could bankroll Spectra and Ben in business stories vs Rick, Steffy, and even Bill.

And not for nothing but Scott Clifton's wish list has been to work with AF again and for Amber to come back so maybe Liam's spiraling rebound could be with her, LOL.

The only problem is Lil Deacon has to be older than Hope and there are no women or men for him on canvas unless he goes with Sally, Darlita, or Saul. They just cannot play Deacon as younger than Hope.

As much as I hated Amber, I'd watch the shit out of this story. Her coming back with a young adult Deacon Jr would fuck everything up in a good way.

Edited January 13, 2018 by TobinAlbers

[tessaray]

Wait. Justin is a grandfather? 

That was what went wrong with bringing back Sheila in that weird mini "who is out to get Quinn" mystery - it ended up only really affecting Quinn and Eric and it seemed to come out of nowhere. (Well, to be fair it did come out of nowhere.) And no one cared in the end.  Except the rare Deacon fans who weren't happy with how that worked out - is he still in jail, btw?

 

1 hour ago, TobinAlbers said:

As much as I hated Amber, I'd watch the shit out of this story. Her coming back with a young adult Deacon Jr would fuck everything up in a good way.

[Anna Yolei]

On 1/13/2018 at 8:47 AM, tessaray said:

Wait. Justin is a grandfather? 

He and Donna had a baby in high school named Marcus, who was a retconned character brought in during the late 2000s back when Donna and Eric were a thing. Back in 2010, after Liam had just become a Spencer officially, Amber claimed they had drunk sex and that he knocked her up. Unbeknowst to Liam, she’d also been following around with Marcus at the same time, but Bill being the sociopath he actually *did* shove her over the side of a cliff IIRC and would have fallen into the ocean if Steffy had not stopped by mere seconds later to pull her up.

That all happened well before Justin came on the show and knew he even had a son, but....yeah, that would be interesting to discuss.

On 1/13/2018 at 7:40 AM, TobinAlbers said:

Hope forming a bond with her brother to RJ's jealousy

Amongst other reasons, this was why it was a mistake to SORAS Hope and not RJ, whose age gap was similar to that of Rick and Bridget. Like, RJ today has no anchor and no purpose and assuming there’s no recast for him in the near future the age gap of mid to late 20s Hope versus barely legal RJ belies the relationship they would have had as kids. Actually, he, Hope, Aly and Felicia’s son Dino were all born within two years of one another and they all would’ve been playmates.

Lots of lost opportunities here.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Anna Yolei

[RuntheTable]

Oh my, just when I thought he couldn’t cut any deeper, Liam pulls out the really, really big guns, and starts talking about his Momma:

“For the first time in my life, I feel……relieved that she is dead, because it means she doesn’t have to see this”

“Would she have warned me about you?  I don’t know. Would she have seen something in you that I just didn’t see?”

As a fairly normal person; these statements directed at me by my husband would have been my undoing. I don’t know that I would have been able to respond. But our Steffy? Girlfriend was quick on the comeback, prattling on about “Liam we didn’t take anything from you”, and “We can still have what we always wanted”, and, “I am still carrying your baby inside of me, “and “we can still have our family.” And Steffy being Steffy; would never be letting herself forget to mention herself, so she also felt it apropos to start on Liam about forgiving her. That’s right; this heinous heifer had the temerity to look her cuckolded husband dead in the eye and make it about her, and how Liam had to forgive her, and how he had no choice. But Liam shut that mess down right quick, and as @grisgris said, BURN.  More infuriating, was how she took all of Liam’s pain, and hurt, and regret about his child, and tried to make him feel guilty. Her audacious audacity has me stupefied and enraged. I have tried to put myself in Liam’s place, and tried to think how I would feel, and if I could forgive. I think many years down the road I might be able to get to a place of acceptance, but I doubt I would ever forgive. What I know without a shadow of a doubt, is that I would never be able to trust the person again. If Liam is there for any reason other than to demand a divorce, I think my head will explode with more force than Mount St. Helens. I simply will not be able to stomach Bill and Katie’s Steffy propping, along with this running idea that Bill must have taken advantage of the heaux, while watching Liam live a farce of a “happy fambly life” for his child. And just to think; Ridge and Brooke don’t even know yet. Or Eric. All three will rip Bill like nobody’s business, and will make Steffy the innocent. OH NOOOOOES. I can’t with that shit at fucking all.

Not sure how I am feeling about the Sally/Hope chem test; not sure if we are headed to friendship or bitchship. What I would really like to see happen, is for H/S to bond in their mutual love and concern for Liam. After a decent amount of time, Liam and Sally would hook up, and Hope would be their biggest champion because she knows Sally is worlds away from Steffy, and a thousand times better for Liam. Of course Liam and Hope would share some sweet moments too, but both would realize their ship has sailed, which opens the door for Sally. Yes, a united front by those who truly care for Liam against the ugliness of his wife and father is the route I want to see.

For me, at least right now, Wyatt and Katie are the only couple on the show who really make sense. I think it is ultra cool that Katie has discovered her inner wanton. It has certainly greased her wheels and made for a much more likable character; her unorthodox Steffy propping notwithstanding.

I meant to mention earlier how much I liked Wyatt in that purple jacket and black shirt.

Pam’s sweater!

Edited January 13, 2018 by RuntheTable

[thewhiteowl]

Knowing Dolla and his plan to decimate or destroy Liam in revenge for kicking him out of SP, it is fairly simple to conclude that Dolla made this happen. We, unfortunately, had to see it happen with all the hand holding and eye fucking build up to it so we know Steffy was all the way into it but Wyatt and the rest of them (except Katie) haven't got to this, yet. The Steffy propping is fierce but then is always has been. Katie has forgiven Dolla for so much and a lot of that had to do with Will so she knows what can be forgiven for the sake of a child, so I see her POV.  Dolla has screwed them all over at one point or another and couldn't give two shits about it so he is easy to blame while Steffy has been excused for reasons. Now she has the ultimate excuse, pregnancy.

[Anna Yolei]

1 hour ago, thewhiteowl said:

Katie has forgiven Dolla for so much and a lot of that had to do with Will so she knows what can be forgiven for the sake of a child, so I see her POV.  Dolla has screwed them all over at one point or another and couldn't give two shits about it so he is easy to blame while Steffy has been excused for reasons. Now she has the ultimate excuse, pregnancy.

I can understand Katie not ripping into her on those terms...and also because she too once had a pregnancy she thought would never happen at the worst possible time.

But the thing that made that tolerable to watch is seeing Bridget tear into both Nick *and* Katie, the latter of whom was still recovering from a heart transplant. Even Brooke got her digs in and I rolled my eyes for obvious reasons, and I think Jackie eventually began stiring the pot some months later. And ultimately, TIIC tried yet again to make Nicket work and Katie really knew she only had Nick because he wanted that child so badly.

But no one handled Katie with kid gloves, and certainly Brooke never got any such consideration during any of hers. If anything, Stephanie was even more outspoken while Brooke was pregnant with Hope because there were two children involved.

[Anna Yolei]

So, having caught up on this week's, I've got some random thoughts since everything else has been discussed:

*Rick has gone mellow if he can sit on an excuse to bash Ridge for any reason. Even three years ago, he'd would have been all too eager to piss all over him, Hope or no Hope. That's progress, I guess. 

*Hope's outfight looks like something Sally would have worn six months ago, but in more muted colors.

*I liked Maya's hair, a nice blend of natural looks without looking too volumous as the hair team often does with her.

*I'm also here for mellow Katie. Could do with a touch less Steffy worship but I didn't get the sense that she was there for the tea for once.

*It just occurred to me that if Hope doesn't end up with Liam that Quinn could possibly try to use her as a wedge to come between Watie, just like she dragged Steffy from Paris to bust up Lope. And I'll just say it for the board spies: N O P E. Just....do not even with that.

*I like Brooke's new haircut best without the beach waves. KKL should keep it at this length.

* I liked Sally reaching out to Hope, knowing that they had a relationship, and asking for her to support Liam out of concern. She may not be aware of all the waffling history but she did know he needed some support.

*I also loved Hope being happy and not Taylor 2.0 as she could tell Sally had feelings for Liam, like they could totally be best girlfriends in the future. Which narratively would make sense if TIIC are going to make Steffy less of a heroine going out from here (which needs to happen) and also their history of being fucked over by Bill. Plus, Sally knows about HFTF, so maybe Hope can end up at Spectra giving Sally guidance. Sally needs that from someone she won't be allowed to sleep with.

*We have confirmation of Liam being the older of him and Wyatt during Wednesday's episode during Wyatt dressing Bill down. I don't think that had ever been confirmed.

[drivethroo]

The problem isn't the cheating.  It usually never is.

The problem is the narcissism, the self centeredness and the lack of self awareness.  Steffy thinks all she needs to do is say she's sorry and everything is ok.  Liam came back to the house, so he must forgive her, right? Otherwise he wouldn't have come back, right?

If Gramma has a glass vase in a cabinet, and you know you shouldn't be messing around in that cabinet, but you choose to open the cabinet door, choose to take the vase off the shelf and choose to spin around and toss it up in the air and it crashes down and breaks, sure, you'd be sorry.

But no amount of sorrys will make that vase unbroken.  Gramma can glue it back together but it would never be the same as before.

Or Gramma could get a brand new vase, but she'd never trust you around it.  She'd make sure that cabinet door is locked and no amount of whining from you about it would change that.

Steffy thinks being sorry should be enough.  It's not.  As Liam told her, she just doesn't get it.

And the funny thing is, if she had left Sally alone to begin with, she wouldn't be in this position.  Her engineering a Sally/Thomas breakup is why she's on the verge of divorce from Liam today.

[SimplePleasures]

On ‎01‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 8:05 PM, TobinAlbers said:

Also you may want to push for your own paternity test on this kid before you get too attached.

Yep, I agree.  Just because the porcine known as Sauxdi says it's Liam's baby doesn't make it so.  Get thee to the paternity test center, pronto!

[RuntheTable]

14 hours ago, Anna Yolei said:

Plus, Sally knows about HFTF, so maybe Hope can end up at Spectra giving Sally guidance. Sally needs that from someone she won't be allowed to sleep with.

Yes. I hadn't even considered the prospect of Sally and Hope teaming up from a business angle. But, seriously, WOW! Now that has potential written all over it. And I love the idea of two young women stepping out on their own. When you consider Thorne is now back in LA, and back at FC's, and wanting to design, and you just know we are headed for some type of Ridge vs Thorne/Rick showdown; how is Hope going to fit in with all that? Will there be room for any type of SL for her at FC's? Rick will be brandishing his big guns, because he is pissed off about Quinn. There is also that weird thing with Carter and Maya, and if something starts there, that will also be more SL for Rick that will probably also involve Nicole. Then there was Ridge's less than enthusiastic reaction to the prospect of reviving HFTF. I would think they brought the Hope character back for more than background noise, and letting her gravitate to the Spectra's would give her something meaty. 

And of course there is that not allowed to sleep with thing.......

Edited January 14, 2018 by RuntheTable

[Anna Yolei]

15 hours ago, drivethroo said:

And the funny thing is, if she had left Sally alone to begin with, she wouldn't be in this position.  Her engineering a Sally/Thomas breakup is why she's on the verge of divorce from Liam today.

Sing this from the rooftop! She was perfectly happy with Thomas before the Slattern of Beverly Hills broke them up. Now might be a good time for Liam to share that bit of news with her. Or any point before Thomas #4 is inevitably cast.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Anna Yolei

[tessaray]

Liam stayed quiet about $Bill/Caroline's lie about her health so I always thought he had his own responsibility (albeit second-hand) in messing around with Sally and SF once Thomas went to NY to be with Caroline and Douglas.  I was only watching sporadically around that time because I liked Tally and hated how they handled PF leaving but Liam's halo was definitely tarnished with that episode. No matter that he tried to help her afterwards, Thomas and Sally had something really special that enhanced both characters. I liked their designing partnership.  

[mightysparrow]

11 minutes ago, tessaray said:

Liam stayed quiet about $Bill/Caroline's lie about her health so I always thought he had his own responsibility (albeit second-hand) in messing around with Sally and SF once Thomas went to NY to be with Caroline and Douglas.  I was only watching sporadically around that time because I liked Tally and hated how they handled PF leaving but Liam's halo was definitely tarnished with that episode. No matter that he tried to help her afterwards, Thomas and Sally had something really special that enhanced both characters. I liked their designing partnership.  

Agreed.  Liam needs to come clean with his part in Caroline-gate.  Keeping quiet made him an accessory after the fact.  It might not have been his lie but he knew it WAS a lie and also knew how much Thomas and Sally cared for each other.  As a man who had had his romantic life torn apart by lying liars who lie, Liam should have been the LAST person to take part in such a sick and hateful scheme.  Tally was great and I miss them a lot.  Sally and Liam are nice together but not as sparky as Sally and Thomas were.

[drivethroo]

Liam should've told Sally and Thomas at the time about Steffy and Caroline's roles and lies.  But he was being loyal to his wife.

He should now tell Sally the truth about Caroline lying about dying and Steffy's role in bringing Caroline to LA to break up her and Thomas.  Liam knew what Steffy, Caroline and Bill did to Sally was wrong, which is why he went overboard in helping Sally.

It's not going to make a bit of difference to Sally about Thomas now, since Thomas decided to stay with Caroline after her "recovery" but she needs to know the full truth.  This will only make Sally more in love with Liam because she will conclude he was being loyal to his wife but he knew what his wife & father were doing was wrong and went against them.

[tessaray]

2 hours ago, drivethroo said:

Liam should've told Sally and Thomas at the time about Steffy and Caroline's roles and lies.  But he was being loyal to his wife.

I tend to forget about Steffy's part in that. I still blame $Bill more I suppose because his efforts to acquire the SF land for "Sky" lead to more than one disaster.  And without his dying lie, Caroline wouldn't have had a chance, no matter what Caroline and Steffy plotted.  But yeah, no one came out of that looking good. 

I know it's too much to hope that Still is endgame. I don't like either character all that much but I have a weird fondness for villainous power couples.      

[grisgris]

I have mixed feelings about Liam confessing to Sally about the big lie that  Caroline was dying. I know the natural inclination would be to heap as much shade and ire as possible on Bill and Steffy. It could go either way ... Sally could be furious with Liam for keeping the truth from her. That might not be such a bad idea because it might squelch any dormant romantic notions she still might be harboring towards Liam -- which neither of them need right at the moment.  Or ... she would see Liam as the loyal devoted husband who had his wife's back no matter what and that would demonize Hauxdi's betrayal even greater than it always has been. That could sink Sally's claws in deeper.

I say that if the writers go there, then they need to have Liam suddenly remember catching Hauxdi and Wyatt in bed after he returned from Australia.

[SweePea59]

On 1/13/2018 at 10:40 AM, TobinAlbers said:

Hell even Quinn would have some skin in this game as she would be the step-grandmother to the once adopted son of Rick and bio son of the man she tried to kill. 

 

Now there's a beautiful soap opera relationship.

[Anna Yolei]

On 1/13/2018 at 9:39 AM, RuntheTable said:

Oh my, just when I thought he couldn’t cut any deeper, Liam pulls out the really, really big guns, and starts talking about his Momma:

“For the first time in my life, I feel……relieved that she is dead, because it means she doesn’t have to see this”

“Would she have warned me about you?  I don’t know. Would she have seen something in you that I just didn’t see?”

As a fairly normal person; these statements directed at me by my husband would have been my undoing. I don’t know that I would have been able to respond.

Ah, but you being a fair normal woman wouldn't respond to your husband kissing another woman by banging his own father. ??

Forgot to comment on this earlier, but when I think about it Liam's life had gone a radical change in that year or so before the ToD crap started. Kelly Cooper hadn't been dead all that long, had she? And then Bill comes along and takes him in. 

I've made comparisons to the Massimo/Nick relationship before, but the big difference is Nick was at an age where he knew who he was, and what he was gonna put up with. He was basically Han Solo if the Millennium Falcom were a ship at sea and had no qualms about shooting first when Massimo tried to manipulate him.

Liam OTOH, needed support from someone, as he was all alone. So he went along with Bill's shit not out of financial need but because he genuinely wanted to be a good son. It has been implied that he has no other family on the Cooper side; the Spencer's are all he has. Which is why this betrayal for the relatively short time he's known him and for all the other crap Bill has put Liam through is even more egregious.

Since neither Liam or Scott Clifton are going anywhere, it may be time to expand his world outside of the Forrester/Spencer bubble and introduce an old buddy from his pre-Spencer life. 

[Broken Ox]

I had such high hopes when he pulled out those legal papers. I really wanted Liam to tell Steffy he was suing for full custody of the baby, that he wasn't going to miss out on being the father he wants to be because she couldn't keep her legs closed with his father. Not that I think he could have won it, but boy would I like to see her face then. 

(I crack myself up. We all know her face doesn't move and wouldn't have looked any different.)

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Steffy’s face appeared to be cracking during that crying jag! 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Foghorn Leghorn

[SimplePleasures]

I didn't think it was possible, but the impossible has happened.  When Sauxdi took those divorce papers from Liam, I could actually feel her pain.  It's game over for those two.  For now at least.

How do I get a friggin GIF to post or work here? Damnitalltohell!

Edited January 15, 2018 by SimplePleasures

[Gam2]

I was proud of Liam today. He didn’t give in to Slutty’s tears and begging to be forgiven. He just needs to stay strong and make a new life for himself and his child. And then hopefully, Sally. No more Hope, please. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

I really don't understand Sally's motives for gossiping with Hope--a virtual stranger--about the state of Liam's life. Was she just feeling out the competition? There was no reason for her to assume Hope was competition. Yet.

A scar. That's a good analogy, I think. Some scars are so deep they can't be fixed even with plastic surgery. Good job Steffy and $Bill!

Annulment? Why not a full-fledged divorce?

So, how soon will Steffy be accepting $Bill's, uh, comfort? I'm betting less than a week.

Quote

Steffy’s face appeared to be cracking during that crying jag!  

Looked like it was melting to me. Maybe once the upper layer drips away her real face can get to cracking.

[mightysparrow]

Is it possible that the long international nightmare is FINALLY over?  Have we seen the last of Steffy/Liam?  Please Jesus, let it be so!!!!!!

[Anna Yolei]

Sally to Hope: "I know you and Liam were married before"

Me: Bitch, when? Hope's had more weddings than Erica Kane, for sure....

Also, can we not with any hint of Sally and Hope in competition until the ink on the divorce papers dry up? I mean, it's great if Sally was giving Liam space for his own sake but from what I saw, I don't think that was entirely auteristic.

I'm glad Liam came with divorce papers. I'm gonna go on a limb to say that there won't be any waffling on this decision this time. About seven years overdue but better now than to be the male Brooke Logan doing this song and dance on the show's 60th anniversary when Steffy is cheating with Will Spencer or Logan Knight or stealing Phoebe Cooper's BF or GF in whichever location shoot Nexflix 2.0 will spring for.

As an aside, I too agree with the sentiment that Kim Matula was evidentally wasted as the rigid ice princess Hope Logan became. Her character on her new show is more !!!FUN!!! to than Steffy could ever hope to be.

[tessaray]

Were Liam and Hope legally married before?  I thought they'd never actually made it?  Or at least that's what I remember hearing when I first started watching, when Hope married Wyatt after Liam was delayed by fishing Ivy out of the Seine. 

[Waldo13]

Stuffy didn't deserve this at all?  WTF?  Stuffy wanted Bill as much as he wanted her. WE had bad childhoods?  Again WTF?  Stuffy, did you live in a homeless shelter?  Did you have to eat out of a dumpster?  I didn't think Liam's mother beat him or didn't provide a loving home.  

Liam is 100% correct.  There is a scar that won't heal especially when you are totally in love that person.  

Sally threw her hat into the ring to pursue Liam. I'm sure Hope will be there also. Could we throw Ivy into the ring just for shits and giggles?  I would be for Sally mostly because Hope and Ivy is been there done that. 

[AngelKitty]

So Liam made me cry again. But what's up with an annulment? That doesn't make any sense.

[ByTor]

14 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Annulment? Why not a full-fledged divorce?

 

3 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

But what's up with an annulment? That doesn't make any sense.

Legally, an annulment and a divorce have the same result, ending a marriage.  So, to me, Liam wanting an annulment is a hell of a lot more insulting, because instead of merely ending the marriage, he's ending the marriage along with saying the marriage never should have happened.

8 hours ago, Waldo13 said:

WE had bad childhoods?

Steffy loves to whine about only having one parent growing up.  Well, maybe if mommy weren't away playing dead she would have had two parents.  Besides, she and Phoebe always had a mother figure available to them...and by the time mommy reanimated and daddy dumped her for Brooke, they were too old for Steffy to now be whining about her "rough" childhood.

Edited January 16, 2018 by ByTor
Steffy and Phoebe are not the same person

[ByaNose]

So, now Bill is going to persue Steffy? I think Ridge's head will explode.

[Anna Yolei]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

Legally, an annulment and a divorce have the same result, ending a marriage.  So, to me, Liam wanting an annulment is a hell of a lot more insulting, because instead of merely ending the marriage, he's ending the marriage along with saying the marriage never should have happened.

The first time he and Slattern were married, Liam begged her to give him an annulment so he could go off to marry Hope more quickly. Steffy begged him not to cuz she wanted to know that they were real. Eventually, Steffy caved only for our boy Waffles to inexplicably tear up the papers—then not tell Hope about it until the day of their wedding.

So yeah. If that move was any more ice cold, we’d need to measure it in Kelvin. Great job, Liam, 10/10.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Anna Yolei

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Legally, an annulment and a divorce have the same result, ending a marriage.  So, to me, Liam wanting an annulment is a hell of a lot more insulting, because instead of merely ending the marriage, he's ending the marriage along with saying the marriage never should have happened.

It's one thing for Liam to want an annulment but doesn't there have to be a legal basis? Presumably he's ending the marriage because of one major incidence of adultery that happened well after the marriage began. I don't see how his mere anger and humiliation and whatever would qualify. Wikipedia says these are the most common grounds for annulment:

• Marriage between close relatives
• Mental incapacity
• Underage marriage
• Duress
• Fraud
• Bigamy

Unless Liam is claiming that Steffy has been having at least an emotional affair with his father since before they were married (so, fraud), I'm not seeing how he has the grounds. Wonder if she'll fight it?

[Anna Yolei]

10 hours ago, tessaray said:

Were Liam and Hope legally married before?  I thought they'd never actually made it?  Or at least that's what I remember hearing when I first started watching, when Hope married Wyatt after Liam was delayed by fishing Ivy out of the Seine. 

The one time they thought they were married, it was invalid because of some paperwork snafu in Italy.

You'd think either of them would say fuck it and go to City Hall at this point, but no.

[thewhiteowl]

Yeah, the annulment doesn't really work legally but it was a nice call-back slap to Steffy so I'll allow myself to let that pass. It continues to puzzle me how in the fucking world Dolla and Steffy think that their adultery is a forgivable offense and that Liam should be over it by now. It's been what, a day? Maybe two? What a petty grudge-holder! (Sarcasm)  Steffy can't even tell the damn truth about why she did it because "I've wanted to bone your Dad since I was jail bait" is true but not a good reason for your husband. I can't bring up any sympathy for her but my lunch is close. Liam is the world's saddest dude, tho. SC is managing to pull that off with whining or looking like Eeyore and it just works for me.  DD is not. I haven't really been able to buy anything he is trying to sell since his obsession with a building. It falls into Snidely Whiplash territory and is more laughable than entertaining. YMMV

[Anna Yolei]

33 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Unless Liam is claiming that Steffy has been having at least an emotional affair with his father since before they were married (so, fraud), I'm not seeing how he has the grounds. Wonder if she'll fight it?

It's possibly symbolic? Because I'm down for that, but yeah, I don't see how this would hold up after ten months.

[ByTor]

51 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

It's one thing for Liam to want an annulment but doesn't there have to be a legal basis?

I went to the State of California's website to see what the grounds are there; one has to be satisfied for an annulment to be granted:

Quote

 

LEGAL REASONS FOR AN ANNULMENT

A marriage is NEVER legally valid when it is:

Incestuous: when the people who are married or in a registered domestic partnership are close blood relatives; or

Bigamous: where a spouse or domestic partner is already married to or in a registered domestic partnership with someone else.

Other marriages and partnerships can be declared invalid because of:

Age at the time of marriage or domestic partnership: the party filing for the annulment was under 18 years old at the time of the marriage or domestic partnership.

Prior existing marriage or domestic partnership: Either party was already legally married or in a registered domestic partnership. This is different from bigamy (which is automatically illegal) because, in this case, the marriage or domestic partnership took place after the former spouse or domestic partner was absent for 5 years and not known to be living or generally thought to be dead.

Unsound mind: either party was of “unsound mind” or unable to understand the nature of the marriage or domestic partnership, including the obligations that come with it.

Fraud: Either party got married or registered the domestic partnership as a result of fraud. The fraud must have been about something vital to the relationship that directly affected why the party who was deceived agreed to the marriage or domestic partnership. Some examples are marrying only to get a green card or hiding the inability to have children.

Force: either party consented to getting married or filing a domestic partnership as a result of force.

Physical incapacity: the parties got married or registered a domestic partnership while 1 of them was “physically incapacitated” (basically, it means that 1 of the spouses or partners was physically incapable of “consummating” the relationship) and the incapacity continues and appears to be “incurable.”

 

So unsound mind works? ;-)

I did find this interesting about children, I wonder if the writers will bother to look this up:

Quote

Rights and obligations relating to the children
If you and your spouse or domestic partner have children together and you get an annulment, the legal presumption that children born during a marriage or domestic partnership are children of the couple also does not exist. This means that, if you get an annulment, you must also ask the judge to establish parentage (paternity) for any children you have in common with the other party.

This would actually be a great way to establish why a second paternity test would be needed; that is, again, if they bother with incorporating some legal facts.

[CountryGirl]

Monday's show was a bit of a mixed bag.

We have confirmation of what many of us have suspected, that Bill will most certainly be waiting in the wings where Steffy is concerned. Since they've killed Brill but good, fine, let Swill be the villainous power couple this show needs and could have had with Deacon and Quinn. 

I cannot with the catfight-in-the-making nonsense between Sally and Hope. All that was missing from their little spat over Liam and who was gonna be there for him more was a bowl of Meow Mix. Is it too much to ask for TPTB to have them bond over their concern for Liam and become friends? Neither lady is coming off well here and it's stupid regardless. Liam is so not ready for another relationship right now. As much as I love Lally, I want it to develop slowly...at least give it three months which is practically a year in soap time. And I'm just saying NOPE to Lope - been there, done that. Liam needs a completely fresh start. I'd rather see Hope involved with Wyatt again...and add some interest to the Katie/Wyatt boinkfest.

The real reason to watch was because of who else? SC - whose Liam continues to break my heart even as I cheered and applauded when he finally handed the heifer her walking papers.

I won't belabor the fact that annulment papers wouldn't be appropriate here as others have pointed out. 

A delusional Hauxdi tells Liam that she knows she's asking for the impossible, but she wants him to try and forgive her anyway, and, of course, continues to beat the drum of raising their baby together.

She goes on to say that they have a chance to give their child better than they had. Where Liam is concerned, from all accounts, he couldn't have had a better mother and it was probably better that Bill wasn't in his life, all things considered. As for the pampered princess, she has got to be kidding. Yes, Taylor was off taking a dirt nap in Morocco. Not a huge loss there IMO. Ridge was very much present and she had a very loving, extended family to care for her and her siblings, stepmother Brooke, included. This is not to say that she didn't miss or need her mother but to act as if she were some urchin on the street is just ridiculous.

Steffy: "I don't want to co-parent and pass our child back and forth." Should have thought of that before you fucked Bill, Hauxdi.

Liam looks at her and is so sad here: "All I ever wanted was a family with you, but I can't just put this behind me. My perception of you is permanently changed."

Hear that, heifer? Permanent.

Is she really so damn dumb or entitled that she thinks he can insta-forgive? It's been all of 2-3 days at the most. Anyone who knows anything about infidelity knows it takes 2-5 years to heal from that and that reconciliation is not guaranteed. Baby or no baby. As Liam said previously, he could overlook a lot, but her cheating and with Bill. As Kesha said best, some things, only God can forgive. 

Steffy tries to interrupt and during most of the conversation, she is hugging her non-existent bump. The cheapest of all cheap shots.

Liam cuts her off: "What you did is a scar that won't go away and I don't see that changing."

She visibly winces at the word "scar."

He looks back at her, watching as his words sink in for perhaps the first time.

He reassures her that they will parent their child but he's made a decision as to how it has to be.

As she looks on, Liam declares that they will parent their child, but he has made a decision about how it has to be. As Steffy looks on, pleading and begging, he removes his wedding band and produces the annulment papers he had drawn up.

He tries to talk to her about coming up with a parenting plan but she's just standing there, sobbing "no" over and over again, begging him not to do this.

Liam reminds her: "I didn't want any of this." He looks at her, not unkindly, telling her she'll be a wonderful mother (sure) and that they'll make parenting work, but not their marriage.

She stops putting on a show for a moment, her arms crossed defensively as Liam looks down at the annulment papers.

Liam: "Maybe I shouldn't be so honest with you." Someone needs to be. "But it's true. I don't think this feeling is ever going to go away." He echoes his earlier words: "I can forgive a lot...but this? My father?" He shakes his head sadly. "No." So much meaning in that one word. "I can't...I can't."

Steffy looks down in disbelief and I'm distracted by all the black mascara all over her face. Shouldn't her makeup be the LAST thing on her mind right now?

Liam looks at her and is almost gentle here: "But I don't regret it, you know." She stares at him and there's a definite chilliness in her gaze. "I'll cherish all of our years together, every moment." Well, probably not every moment. She starts to sob then and I think she starts to realize, for the first time, that is really is over and it's all on her.

Liam continues, so heartbreakingly tender and more compassionate than I would have been, "And I'm grateful...that we tried. We tried...for as long as we could...we tried."

Steffy can't even respond...I think she is truly stunned that he's not immediately rolling over for her. The fact that he's no longer angry and shouting (which is not to say his anger has dissipated, it's still there), but just has this quiet resignation, is scaring the hell out of her. As it should.

Liam: "And I'll always remember the good times." He smiles at her here, the first truly genuine smile since learning the truth as he whispers: "So many good times." 

There are flashbacks, beginning with their Aspen wedding, with that sad, manipulative music playing in the background. But all of my sorrow is for Liam.

Steffy snobs, swiping at her face, then takes the annulment papers from him.

Without another word, he turns and walks toward the door as she stands there and watches him go.

He walks out, closing the door behind him, his face a mask of pain and sadness. 

But he did what needed to be done and he will be all the better for finally, finally, freeing himself from this miserable excuse for a wife and life partner.

He sags against the door, the weight of all of this hitting him like a ton of bricks as his eyes fill with tears once more.

Back inside the beach house, Steffy sobs, clutching the annulment papers.

If she truly loves him like she says she does, she'll respect his wishes and let him go.

And I hope Liam gets gone and stays gone and that he keeps any future interactions with this bitch to a minimum and only for the purpose of discussing their child. The child I still think is Bill's.

SC has continued to nail these scenes and as much as I hate this storyline (except for Steffy getting kicked to the curb), it really has allowed him to shine.

[sugarbaker design]

1 minute ago, CountryGirl said:

SC has continued to nail these scenes and as much as I hate this storyline (except for Steffy getting kicked to the curb), it really has allowed him to shine.

Consistently shine, over a period of days, with several different actors...DD, DB, the actress who plays Sally (sorry, don't know her name yet).  Jesus Christ, SC even made Stuffy look good.

I gotta disagree with Liam on the scar thing though, it's too quick to have a scar, right now you have a gaping wound.

[nkotb]

Great recap, @CountryGirl! For a split second, I had a huge fear that Liam was doing to Steffy what Eric did to Quinn, when he gave her the divorce papers as a test, to see if she loved him enough to let him go. Quinn definitely did, Steffy, not so much, but I had a moment of panic, anyway. Thank God he kept walking.