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American Crime Story in the Media

yeswedo

By yeswedo
in American Crime Story

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CeeBeeGee

CeeBeeGee

I just cannot with that Bill Dear story. Jesus! He stalked Jason for years and years? Pawing through his trash? Trying to rent the place next to him? What is wrong with that guy? Is there anyway Jason can get some kind of restraining order? That is so disturbing.

 

Also, fuck Martin Sheen for giving him a platform.

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Ailianna
Ailianna

I think this is part of what this show is trying to change, though, is that all the victims should be of equal "value" if you will.  There shouldn't be a "main victim" in a case where 5 people have be

Umbelina
Umbelina

The Goldman family STOPPED OJ from profiting on that book, through the civil court judgement, all money goes directly to the plaintiffs in that case.  He hid most of his money, which is why he's in ja

Bronzedog
Bronzedog

Someone keeping and wanting to frame a probable murder weapon? How low can you go?

Isabella15

Isabella15

(edited)

Throwing something into the mix here:  new to me but this is a show called 'Crime Time' hosted by Alison Weiner.  Guest is Jim Clemente, writer/producer on 'Criminal Minds' tv show, and retired FBI profiler. 

Topic is:  'People vs OJ Simpson:  Legal Mistakes and Planted Evidence.'  (Posted March 17, 2016)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tred-I6XLK0

 

Edited to add:   Good discussion of many things we've talked about here, but a few new ones:  Clemente talked about colleague who worked on the 'Frogman' show and taught Simpson and the other actors, how to do the silent kill from behind.  He says OJ asked how you could not get injured in a fight like that, and the instructor said, If you wear a heavy wetsuit, you won't get bruised and bloodied. 

 

There may be a follow up show with Clemente and Carl Douglas which would be interesting.  Especially for people like me who will be going into withdrawal after this show is over. 

Edited by Isabella15
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Simon Boccanegra

Simon Boccanegra

(edited)

Jason Simpson really cared about Nicole and had a great relationship with her, by most accounts. I think he was conflicted and a fairly sympathetic figure here. When he was asked in a civil trial deposition if he had ever suspected his father may have committed the murders, he admitted he had. He said if it were ever proved that Simpson was guilty, it would be hard for him to stand by him.  

Edited by Simon Boccanegra
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BW Manilowe

BW Manilowe

Both The Hollywood Reporter & the TV Line website posted articles yesterday discussing something we've previously brought up here: Which actors/actresses belong in/have the best shot at winning for the show in which categories (& does the show belong in the Limited Series or Drama category)?

Both articles say, as far as the acting goes, Cuba Gooding, Jr. & Courtney B. Vance are already being promoted for nominations for Lead Actor in a Limited Series, with Courtney apparently having the edge over Cuba, & Sarah Paulson is already being promoted for a nomination for Lead Actress in a Limited Series.

They also said that the rest of the cast is being promoted for nominations in the Supporting Actor/Actress in a Limited Series categories.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/emmys-verdict-reached-people-v-879644

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Umbelina

Umbelina

I feel like Sterling K Brown has been on screen more than Cuba, but oh well.  I'd rather he win, so "supporting" is probably a better category for him anyway.

 

Courtney B Vance would win over Cuba if they both go for "lead actor" anyway. 

 

I don't know what their competition will be though, but I hope several of them win, this series has been so much better than I thought it would be.

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locomoco

locomoco

Its funny how the competition for this show might be Ryan's other show AHS since both are miniseries. I feel Crime Story will do better.

I say we just hand Courtney B Vance all the awards.

I think Crime Story is breath of fresh air compared to Horror Story right now... even if it's just a dramatization of events that were so burned into our collective consciousnesses. While I enjoy AHS, both my wife and I have been completely stunned at how compelling the writing and casting has been for Crime Story. The only other show that makes an hour pass by like 15 minutes for me is Game of Thrones, and I think I'm enjoying Crime Story more.

 

There's something about the pacing in Crime Story that feels different from other Ryan Murphy productions - in his fictional shows, he relies heavily on the audience buying into a certain level of suspension of disbelief to connect some continuity gaps or plot advancements, but Crime Story hasn't felt like that at all... I'm not sure if it's the nature of the content, or if it's because the case was already filled with so many things that should have made absolutely no sense, and we've just come to terms with it over the decades.

 

Is he already planning to continue this line of real life crimes/trials? I'd love to see what he would do with the Lacey Peterson case.

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SimoneS

SimoneS

(edited)

Insightful interview. I hope that his outstanding performance as Chris Darden will bring Sterling more high profile roles, but there are so few leading roles for African American men in Hollywood. Look at the cast of The Wire. They should be ruling tv.

I am rooting for Sterling. Someone should start a Twitter campaign to get him cast as Ezekiel on The Walking Dead. He would be amazing.

Edited by SimoneS
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lovinbob

lovinbob

I just cannot with that Bill Dear story. Jesus! He stalked Jason for years and years? Pawing through his trash? Trying to rent the place next to him? What is wrong with that guy? Is there anyway Jason can get some kind of restraining order? That is so disturbing.

 

Also, fuck Martin Sheen for giving him a platform.

I guess Charlie Sheen doesn't get his conspiracy theories from nowhere. WTF Martin Sheen!?

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ShadowHunter

ShadowHunter

I think Crime Story is breath of fresh air compared to Horror Story right now... even if it's just a dramatization of events that were so burned into our collective consciousnesses. While I enjoy AHS, both my wife and I have been completely stunned at how compelling the writing and casting has been for Crime Story. The only other show that makes an hour pass by like 15 minutes for me is Game of Thrones, and I think I'm enjoying Crime Story more.

 

There's something about the pacing in Crime Story that feels different from other Ryan Murphy productions - in his fictional shows, he relies heavily on the audience buying into a certain level of suspension of disbelief to connect some continuity gaps or plot advancements, but Crime Story hasn't felt like that at all... I'm not sure if it's the nature of the content, or if it's because the case was already filled with so many things that should have made absolutely no sense, and we've just come to terms with it over the decades.

 

Is he already planning to continue this line of real life crimes/trials? I'd love to see what he would do with the Lacey Peterson case.

I agree AHS has a few good moments and some good acting but he will have 20 plots going at once and sometimes he drops a plot and never goes back to it. 

 

I am worried about S2 because I don't trust Ryan Murphy to not pull a Ryan Murphy.  I fear he will make up characters and have Katrina be the background. 

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Umbelina

Umbelina

Lengthy interview with one of the jurors. Her most interesting assertion is that the two guilty votes made absolutely no attempt at arguing their point during deliberations.

I love that the show showed the racial tension in that room, and the hell of sequestering them.

 

I think they wanted to go home, and they didn't want that palpable hate anymore.  The best they could hope for was hung, and while yes, originally I felt they should have stuck to their position, thanks to this show, I actually get it.  Guilty was off the table completely, and after most of a year spent away from their friends, family (other than the 5 hour weekly visits) and own beds, TV, phones, just all of it?  I GET it now. 

 

I really think this jury should have never been sequestered, and if Ito had exerted proper judicial control, this trial would have NEVER dragged out this long.  The jury was under more "cruel and unusual" conditions than most prisons.  It was wrong.

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psychoticstate

psychoticstate

I love that the show showed the racial tension in that room, and the hell of sequestering them.

 

I think they wanted to go home, and they didn't want that palpable hate anymore.  The best they could hope for was hung, and while yes, originally I felt they should have stuck to their position, thanks to this show, I actually get it.  Guilty was off the table completely, and after most of a year spent away from their friends, family (other than the 5 hour weekly visits) and own beds, TV, phones, just all of it?  I GET it now. 

 

I really think this jury should have never been sequestered, and if Ito had exerted proper judicial control, this trial would have NEVER dragged out this long.  The jury was under more "cruel and unusual" conditions than most prisons.  It was wrong.

 

 

I agree with this.  I can't imagine what it must have been like for those two jurors being the initial hold outs and the fatigue, frustration and animosity in that room.  They wanted to go home, they were fearful of the public reaction to the verdict and that makes it easy to see why they folded so quickly.

 

I do still think a four hour deliberation (or two, as Toobin said it truly was) on this case was an insult, whether they voted to convict or acquit.  In that regard, they didn't do their jobs in my opinion. 

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wanderingstar

wanderingstar

(edited)
I am worried about S2 because I don't trust Ryan Murphy to not pull a Ryan Murphy.  I fear he will make up characters and have Katrina be the background.

Same here - especially since season 1 has set the bar so high (impossibly high, IMO). I know RM wasn't the writer on this, and I think that helped make this season such a success.

 

Now, with season 2 tackling Katrina...I just don't know. That's an event that's still very fresh in my mind (and a lot of other peoples' as well). Like the OJ trial, it was a tragedy but in a different way. Millions of lives were devastated, and people still continue to deal with its effects. I'm wondering if they'll take a particular book or article series as the source material. That might help.

 

Back to season 1, this post-finale interview with Marcia Clark had two interesting tidbits:

 

Have your sons watched the FX series? Do you ever talk about it with them?

No, they didn't want to. My older son watched the first one, where they have him eating puzzle pieces. He goes, "Mom, I wasn't that dumb. Come on." I told him, "I think you have a really good lawsuit here."

 

I just thought that was funny.

 

This comment, though, was more interesting.

They brought it up in the context of how it gave you purpose for your life's work. How did you feel about that?

I think they wanted to say that that's what inspired me to become a prosecutor. It didn't. I actually was a defense attorney first. It's true enough, though, that I wound up leaving private practice and taking this big pay cut to become a prosecutor because I wanted to stand up for the victims. But to say that it was consciously because of what I had been through, it wasn't. I can't say that. Was there a subconscious component to it? Maybe. I don't know. It was subconscious. [Laughs.] But I certainly did join the prosecutor's office because I wanted to stand up for the victims. I don't know that I thought of it in terms of the way they put it: vengeance. I didn't think of it as vengeance. To me, that was wrong. It's not about vengeance. It's about justice. My feeling was, victims need someone to stand up and fight for them.

 

The line was “Justice is vengeance for victims to me.”

Yeah. Wrong. No. No, it's not! I would never say that. I would never even think that. It's not about vengeance because vengeance isn't necessarily justice.

Edited by Gillian Rosh
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psychoticstate

psychoticstate

Thanks for that link, hendersonrocks.   A nearly EIGHT HOUR documentary sounds insane but the article makes it sound as if it's quite well done.  I do disagree with the author's statement that the show was played as camp; I think the trial and murders themselves became camp (sadly) but I think the show did a fairly respectable and reasonable job with it and it was not meant to be camp of the situation (although, as I said, the situation itself in reality became camp.)

I found this particular statement/quote attributed to Simpson unbelievably galling.

Quote

 

In O.J., we see Simpson as the awkward civil-rights hero he was — a man who scrupulously avoided, for his whole career until the murders, the political struggle that ran parallel to his rise, famously saying, “I’m not black, I’m O.J.” (When he was first escorted to jail, on seeing all the African-Americans who showed up to support him, he said, “What are all these n----rs doing in Brentwood?”) 

I

 

I think it says everything we need to know about Simpson (besides the fact that he's a murderer, that is.) 

There is a related document with a Marcia Clark interview on the final episode here.  Apologies if it's been posted before.  It's an interesting read.  She did say this about the deliberation:

Quote

One thing they didn't show, which is too bad, was the fact that we knew. First of all, they were wrong about [the jury deliberation being] four hours. It was two hours. They announced their verdict two hours after going back to the jury room. So, really, there was no deliberation

And this about the readback of Alan Park's testimony:

Quote

 

Now, he was one of those witnesses that the defense could not shake. They could not lay a hand on him. He was straight, honest, true. Johnnie really didn't try. And so, I argued to the jury: If you believe Alan Park's testimony, and you have no reason not to, and you believe his testimony that he drove up to Rockingham and he did not see the Bronco, that he parked in the driveway and could not reach Simpson, that some period of time later, he finally saw a figure that was the size of Simpson outside coming from around the side of the house where the glove was dropped, and walk in through the front door. And that he then went inside the house. And then finally he answers the limo driver's call. If you believe that testimony, then you must believe Simpson committed these murders because everything falls from that moment. If you believe all of that, then you know Simpson had no alibi, then you know Simpson was out of the house, then you know he was exactly where the glove was dropped. So you understand that all of that is true, and the defense never could touch that testimony. It stood there as true. If you believe that, then you must believe he committed these murders.

I think no clearer picture could ever be painted of the fact that a jury will believe only what they want to believe than this. They asked for his testimony to be read back because he stated that when he pulled up to the driveway he noticed two cars in the driveway. And when Johnnie was cross-examining him Johnnie laughed and said, "Well, of course, that's not true, Arnelle was not home yet.” Alan Park was remembering the photos taken by the police after the fact. I asked him about that and he said, "Yeah that's true so there might have only been one car.” It wasn't really important to me how many cars were in the driveway. It wasn't important to anyone. But the jury said, Oh see. He said there were two cars in the driveway, so we can't trust anything he says. And if there could ever be a more clear illustration of the fact that a jury will buy exactly and only what they want to buy, that has to be it. 

 

Also, an interview with juror Sheila Woods is here.  Another interesting read.  She does mention she does not recall the argument about Target vs. Ross as portrayed on the show, or arguments about Seinfeld vs. Martin.

She does say this:

Quote

 

Even in the jury, when we were still in the jury panel, I started crying before I even left out of the courtroom. I think it was tears of relief that it was over, and then when I saw the Goldman family, Kim Goldman crying, I felt bad for them. I also felt bad for the other side of the family because they went through a lot, too. But I didn't think it was anything to really cheer about. It was just … weird. I had my own emotional breakdown because it was so draining for so long.


 

And this

Quote

 

I think most people thought we based our decision on race. Race never came up in the topic of our deliberation, or even how the LAPD treated black people.

Do you think O.J. was framed?
I don’t know if he was necessarily framed. I think O.J. may know something about what happened, but I just don’t think he did it. I think it was more than one person, just because of the way she was killed. I don’t know how he could have just left that bloody scene — because it wasbloody — and got back into his Bronco and not have it filled with blood. And then go back home and go in the front door, up the stairs to his bedroom ... That carpet was snow white in his house. He should have blood all over him or bruises because Ron Goldman was definitely fighting for his life. He had defensive cuts on his shoes and on his hands.


 

I'm glad that she pointed out the verdict, regardless of what it was, was nothing to cheer about.  Two people were still dead.

I do wonder how the topic of race never entered deliberations though - - part of the defense's argument was that the LAPD was racist.  

To each their own but I don't understand how she believes that Simpson knew something about what happened but didn't do it.  How is that possible?  And more than one person because of how Nicole was killed?  Huh?  One person could easily have killed Nicole the way she was killed.  I could have killed Nicole that way, being female and shorter than she was, if I had snuck up behind her and conked her on the head, as was done.  

It's been posted here several times in other threads but again, the misconception that the killer and his vehicle would have been "filled with blood."  It's too bad it either wasn't explained or the jury didn't grasp that while Nicole bled profusely, she bled out directly on the sidewalk and away from her body (and from her killer.)  The amount of arterial spray that would have hit her killer would have been relatively miniscule, all things considered. I think a lot of Ron's blood was soaked into his own clothing (just look at the photos that are available online).  As far as Ron's killer having bruises, that would have been the case I think if his killer had not gotten a jump on him.  With that first knife wound to his neck, Ron couldn't put up as strong a fight as he otherwise could and it proved fatal for him.

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Hanahope

Hanahope

I'm really looking forward to next season.  While this season's show took some liberties with the truth, the general overall story was essentially what happened and anyone who wasn't around during that time, has relatively good information about the trial and issues involved.  I'm hoping the same is true with Katrina, as I for one, was out of the country during the time and missed most of the news about it except for the main info, big hurricane, NO flooded, a lot of minority/poorer neighborhoods suffered the brunt of the damage.

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vibeology

vibeology

I missed most of the Katrina coverage too. I was camping so when I left I knew a hurricane was coming and I got back the night of the telethon. I turned it on and 20 minutes later Kanye was calling out Bush and I had no idea what was happening. I caught myself up pretty quickly, but I still feel like I missed something important.

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Coffeecup

Coffeecup

(edited)

Robert Shapiro gave an interview to Megyn Kelly on 5-17-16. He revealed what OJ said to him after the verdict:  “You had told me this would be the result from the beginning, you were right.” He also revealed some other interesting tidbits, such as speculating that two knives might have been used in the murders -- meaning that there could have been a second killer involved.

http://lawnewz.com/uncategorized/in-megyn-kelly-interview-robert-shapiro-doesnt-seem-convinced-of-o-j-s-innocence/ The author of this article believed that Shapiro was choosing his words vey carefully. The are indications that the relationship between OJ and Shapiro very tense. This article includes a clip from the interview.

There are many other articles about the interview.

http://www.people.com/article/robert-shapiro-oj-simpson-trial-shocking-megyn-kelly-interview In this article, Shapiro confirms that he did try on the gloves, and it didn't bother him that the gloves had been used in murders.

Edited by Coffeecup
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Umbelina

Umbelina

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/06/ron-shipp-oj-simpson-trial
 

Ron Shipp interview:

Quote

 

I asked if he hit her and he denied it. He said she was hitting him.

I went to the station the next morning. The whole department knew I was friends with O.J. The person who took the call came straight to me and told me what happened. He had let O.J. go up to his room to put some clothes on, and when he did, O.J. went through the other side of the house and drove off. That’s how he got away. Otherwise, he would have been booked that night. This is why I was so mad when O.J. said the L.A.P.D. framed him as a defense. These guys didn’t frame you, man. They loved you. Otherwise, you would have been booked that night if they didn’t love you.

Later, Nicole came by the station. She had a big old smile on her face. She had heavy makeup on and asked me to come by when I got off work. That’s when she dropped the whole enchilada in my lap. She told me she was calling him on all of his stuff and he struck her. When she came clean, she said, “Ron, he likes and respects you so much. He wants you to think that he is the most perfect human being.”

She knew I taught domestic violence. She told me it happened on several occasions. She showed me pictures of past batteries that [her sister] Denise had taken. I came back the following night to bring back pamphlets to read to her. Everything that I said about the batterers, she said, “Wow, that’s O.J. This is what he does. This is how he is.”

Here I am, one moment, thinking this is the best couple in the world. Here I am looking at my big hero, and she starts telling me how jealous he was. She told me a story about Tom Cruise. She mentioned to O.J. that she thought Tom Cruise was handsome. After she told him that, she wasn’t allowed to mention his name ever again or go to his movies. Here again, I was like, “What! This is O.J.”

 

Quote

 

Did you ever see O.J. in jail?

Cathy Randa, [O.J.’s assistant], called and told me that I was on the list of people who could visit him. I went to the jail with [football star] Marcus Allen, [restaurateur] Joe Stellini, Cathy, and [sports agent] Mike Gilbert. I shouldn’t laugh, but I remember sitting there, and at this time, I knew he did it. I remember someone saying, “O.J., they’re going to find out who did this and you’ll be out of here,” and O.J. saying to all of us, “I can’t wait.”

The following week, Johnnie Cochran’s people sent an investigator down to my office. He said, “I understand you’re part of our team and we need to get some statements from you.” I looked at him right there and said, “I’m not part of your team. I think absolutely, positively O.J. Simpson killed those two people. I don’t want you to call me. I’m done.” He was stunned. I think he thought I was joking. I said, “No, man. It’s over. I’m done.”

 

Quote

As I was walking out, I felt a hand on my shoulder. It was Johnnie Cochran. I remember that I used to say at the time that if I ever ran into any of those guys, I’d knock the hell out of them because I was so mad. I was shocked to see it was him standing there. He asked me if I was O.K. He kept saying, “You know it was business. It was business, Ron.”

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ShadowHunter

ShadowHunter

Many of the original cast of American Crime Story‘s debut season — The People V. O.J. Simpson — are expected to reassemble for the next chapter in the Ryan Murphy-produced anthology show. Producers Nina Jacobson and Brad Simpson confirm to Awards line that writers went to New Orleans last week on a research trip for Season 2, which will tell of the American response to Hurricane Katrina. And O.J.‘s Marcia Clark, Sarah Paulson, says she fully intends to return to the series. “The Katrina story, to me, is a literal American crime,” Paulson explains. “It says something about a uniquely American attitude, and I find it incredibly potent.” John Travolta has also said he would like to be on S2 as well.

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SimoneS

SimoneS

(edited)

Lots of Emmy nominations for People vs. OJ. Cuba and Sarah got nominated. Is there a category for best supporting actor in a limited tv series? Maybe Sterling still has a shot at a nomination. Kudos again to the writers, cast, and crew!

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/arts/television/emmy-nominations-2016-will-game-of-thrones-rule-again.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Edited by SimoneS
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Princess Sparkle

Princess Sparkle

I kind of wish it had been Nathan Lane in the John Travolta slot, but the Emmys always love a film actor who does tv.  What I do appreciate is that Sterling K Brown and David Schwimmer got nominated even though they didn't have the "flashy" roles - it's so easy to overlook performances like that, espeically when you're on the same show as some pretty bombastic performances, so it's great to see them both recognized.

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Princess Sparkle

Princess Sparkle

17 hours ago, starri said:

So, is Donatella going to be played by Sarah Paulson or Lady Gaga?

I keep trying to figure who's going to be Gianni.  If it wasn't for the fact that I want the show to do well, I would keep my fingers crossed that they'd slap a spray tan on Travolta.

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Guest

Guest

Filing this under, "Oh for Fuck's Sake": We Asked the People v. O.J. Cast If O.J. Did It

Short answers: 

Cuba Gooding: "Word salad, word salad, word salad, I don't want to answer."

Sarah Paulson: "Yes...but..."

Travolta: "I don't want to answer but I think my character thought he did it."

Sterling K Brown: "It's possible somebody else could be involved, but I think he was present at the crime scene." 

Courtney B. Vance: "I don't know."

Kenneth Choi: "He did it."

Bruce Greenwood: "Yes."

David Schwimmer: "I'm not going to answer that."

Boy, that's some show of courage on behalf of most of these actors with their mealy-mouthed non-answers. Idiots. 

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mattie0808

mattie0808

Interesting. I can sorta understand Cuba saying he's protecting his performance and doesn't want it viewed a certain way from his answer, but really, I think he just still doesn't much care whether OJ did or not, and is afraid to plainly say so. I thought Sarah's was a straight "no" -- she's saying she thought he did it at the time when she wasn't informed about the case, and now that she is informed, she still thinks he did it, it's just that playing Marcia gave her a different POV of herself for having an earlier, uninformed, stance? Travolta does seem afraid of giving a straight answer, and oh boy, Sterling's is tiptoeing down conspiracy lane (OJ was "present"?). Courtney, I'd guess, is in Cuba's position of initially not caring because of all the ancillary issues, and not wanting to come out and say that's still how he feels. Choi and Greenwood have no qualms about saying what they think. I'm surprised by Schwimmer, who was trying to go the Travolta route, maybe ("this is how I think the person I played felt"), but felt the need to make clear he definitely has an opinion he won't share...for some reason.

Great pics with that article.

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