S02.E06: 206

[Tara Ariano]

A medical emergency with Martin casts Helen and Noah's litigation process in a new light; Helen makes a long-overdue decision; Noah is surprised when Alison wants to stay with her mother at the Sousanna Institute and realizes that the dynamics of their relationship have shifted, which leads to some troublesome discoveries.

[Primetimer]

Well, not you, Margaret, but everyone else seems to be getting along. Also, Noah tramples over Alison in more ways than we care to count.

Read the story

[WaltersHair]

Yes, yes, yes! "I hate you. Get out." 

http://media.giphy.com/media/10xZU9b7JBx14s/giphy.gif

 

No, no, no. What did that poor tree ever do to you Noah? Allison is pregnant.  With splinters.

[ShortyMac]

I love Maura Tierney. I'm glad Helen finally stood up to her mom.

 

I'm glad they finally figured out what was wrong with Martin. Poor kid. I like how they tied in the Crohn's to Noah's mom's MS since they're both autoimmune diseases.

 

I didn't really care about Part Two to comment on it, except that Alison acknowledged her self-destructive behavior in how she was replacing communication and letting herself feel with sex. I liked that, and how Noah could sort of relate to her when Martin was in the hospital.

[DB in CMH]

Part 1:A

Part 2:D

That was awful. Wow!

A few eps back I posted that I don't think Allison and Noah are really in love. Another poster politely ripped me apart. I'll take my apology now. I'm betting thus ends with Noah and Helen back together.

[Nanrad]

Holy Eggplant!!! ;)

 

I absolutely loved Helen's POV. I didn't like that she put all of her shit on her mother because she did listen to the woman for years, but she was right in kicking her out so she could finally have a piece of mind. During the end of the flashback, I assumed that Helen got cut off and I think the present day scene proves that. I also, loved how Helen was such an adult about the whole thing with Noah. Sure, they argued in the waiting room, but Helen just was tired of the constant fighting and knew that Noah would be silent, but not budge about his stance. I love the breakdown and that Whitney supported her, but I didn't like Whitney resting to go to Noah's place because she wouldn't have her own room, but she does have a point: it's split custody. It's okay for a weekend, not for half of time. And when Helen decided to just settle with Noah, she was very accommodating and selfless. Of course, Noah would accept a compliment, but wouldn't give it.

Part 1:A
Part 2:D

That was awful. Wow!

A few eps back I posted that I don't think Allison and Noah are really in love. Another poster politely ripped me apart. I'll take my apology now. I'm betting thus ends with Noah and Helen back together.

I agree minus Helen and Noah getting back together, but maybe you're right...Noah was looking a bit nostalgic when he left. 

[jrlr]

Noah is such a pig that I'm actually beginning to lose interest in a show I NEVER thought I would lose interest in. So Helen has grown up - and done a surprisingly good job of it - and Alison has grown up or at least come to terms with her past, but Noah hasn't budged from his carved-in-stone assholiness. The sex/rape scene with Alison made me want to puke: Noah seriously wants to destroy her now that she has become more or less independent of him, dared to criticize his masterpiece and worst of all, befriended Sebastian Junger who is a better writer with his hands tied behind his back than Noah could ever hope to be. Unfortunately for the story line (IMO of course) Alison's pregnancy now strikes me as a completely trite plot point to pull these two people who truly seem to have nothing in common back together. So all of that bullshit reichi stuff was Noah's vision of a new ending for his book? Or what? Despite cheering for Helen's emotional growth spurt, I found this episode alternately irritating and unsettling, but in the end, not particularly compelling..

[grumpypanda]

Strangely I was bored with the Helen stuff this week and enjoyed the Noah story. Hopefully the Martin storyline is over because I'm just not interested in his bowels. I did like the moment where everyone was eating Martin's cake and joking around with each other. For just a moment they seemed like a real family. Noah looked slightly wistful as he was leaving too.

I knew Alison was pregnant the moment she came out of the water and was practically glowing. Another little hint was the way she was chowing down on her lunch while Noah was just sitting there.

Noah can't be happy about the pregnancy. Part of what he liked about Alison was her freedom. She didn't really have a ties so she was free to follow him around wherever he needed to go. He liked that she was basically available to him for sex or whatever else he needed. All of her attention went to him but now this baby will take up her time.

Since Alison hasn't had sex in six weeks, I'm assuming Cole was the last person she had sex with. This definitely leaves the door open for the baby to be Cole's. I really hope it's not though. I want Cole to break free of Alison and make babies with his new wife.

Overall, this episode was just okay. It's definitely my least favorite of this season so far but I liked it.

[lvbalgurl]

This was a really awesome Helen episode.  I thought she was great in both working out a compromise with Noah regarding custody and the divorce, and finally standing up to her mother.  I don't think she can lay the destruction of her marriage at her mother's feet, but, every time she let her mom's bitter diatribes against Noah get inside her head, it chipped away at what she and Noah were trying to build.  It was good of Helen to acknowledge this, so that she doesn't continue to make the same mistakes in the future.  She needs to step to her dad on this issue as well. 

 

The kids weren't horrible spoiled brats this episode!  Whitney hugging her mom and getting the cake for Martin was really quite sweet.  It is interesting that when things started to turn around between Helen and Noah regarding custody, the kids began behaving better in the eyes of both Noah and Helen.  Much of this can probably be attributed to Martin's illness, but still, pretty interesting.

 

I am curious as to why Helen is so determined to get Noah off that she's ready to sell the house to get whatever evidence Oscar says he has.  She's willing to shell out 100K?  Wow.

 

I had to LMAO at Noah's half.  Coming back into Allison's life after being away from her for six weeks, all "Let's get the fuck out of here".  Physically yanking her out of her yoga class.  He is such a douchebag that I had to laugh at it all.  And now she's pregnant.  This show has veered into the soap realm...I don't think I mind it, though.

[bilgistic]

I got that Helen was cut off, but not why. I don't see her father doing that to her. Mother, yes, but she wasn't holding the money.

[healthnut]

The only time I like Alison is when she's with Cole so I wouldn't mind the baby being his, although I do think he deserves better. Noah, I cannot stand. Didn't like the tree sex scene, I never think Alison & Noah's scenes are hot although I'm sure that scene was meant to be uncomfortable and repugnant, which it was.

So he runs over his lover in his book. Makes perfect sense why they would want to change the venue, although his book ending would be admissible anyway I would think.

Of course Oscar wants 100k, I expected that. Was not expecting Helen to offer to put up the house for her ex husband's defense. That's nuts. I get her dad not wanting to finance Noah's defense but that's a lot for Helen to risk to keep her baby daddy out of jail, don't see Alison doing that.

[VioletMarx]

Why do people assume she was cut off? Because of the off brand Bisquick? Maybe she's just trying to be less financially dependent on her awful, awful parents.

Her dad was obviously not going to kick in 100k to help Noah, but Helen could take out a mortgage on that house for 20x that. I live in park slope and that it at least a $2 million dollar house.

[bilgistic]

That wasn't off-brand; Immaculate Baking Co. is pricey and made with "better" ingredients than standard baking mixes.

The lawyer said something about her not being able to afford the payout.

Edited November 9, 2015 by bilgistic

[Thinbalina]

I thought Helen was very mature. Part of me felt like she gave up but in the end, it wasn't worth the fight. She has her kids well being to think of. 

 

For her sanity, it was better to compromise otherwise she was going to go crazy, even if it wasn't showing on the outside, internally, she was going to break.

Therefore, holding onto her hatred for Noah wasn't helping anyone and her mother constantly fueling the fire wasn't helping the situation either. You can't counsel someone else on their marriage when yours wasn't successful.

 

I honestly detest Allison and Noah..I don't know what it is but I can't stomach them. It's crazy how he will deal with her problems but couldn't deal with his marriage problems, but I guess that's how it works sometimes.

 

On another shallow note: thanks for having the guy walk past Noah's view of Allison who was clearly well endowed. I don't know what it was supposed to mean but I surely appreciated it!

Edited November 9, 2015 by Thinbalina

[right]

I don't know if it would be as simple as Helen was cut off.  Many trusts have stipulations that dictate what the money can be withdrawn for.  Pulling 100k out to pay a bribe might be outside of what Helen can do. 

 

Helen's POV confirmed my opinion that she wants Noah to still be in her life.  Even though he has been a total shit and cheated on her she still loves him.  It's too bad that love doesn't always conquer all.

[briochetwist]

Helen's POV confirmed my opinion that she wants Noah to still be in her life.  Even though he has been a total shit and cheated on her she still loves him.  It's too bad that love doesn't always conquer all.

I didn't get that at all.  Helen's POV showed me that she really did want to put her kids first and she had to be the bigger person.  I saw a mother sucking it up so that her kids didn't suffer anymore.

 

And as much as I loathe Noah, I completely understood his frustration with Alison.  She was the one who wanted the apartment, she wanted him to forego custody over it, and she wants to stay at the retreat?  

 

Timelines on this show are messing me up.  When did she sleep with Oscar?  Is it possible that there are three choices for daddy?

[Glade]

Helen's half really was great, I was so glad that she could make up with Noah and stand up to her mother to provide everyone with a much less emotionally toxic environment!  I'm also glad she didn't try to justify or blame her DUI on Noah, because she could have killed her own kids, or someone else's due to her horrible decision making.  Hopefully now that she's made these changes, she won't have to go on another bender.  It's possible that she's cut off or lost her trust, but then again I never really saw Helen as being so wealthy that she could immediately shell out 100,000 like it was candy.  And I'm not sure her parents would give it to her no questions asked, especially if it was for Noah. But clearly she isn't with Max in the future, which is no great surprise.

 

I think it's a good idea for Alison to establish boundaries and get some space from Noah, develop healthier emotional patterns, but it doesn't look like that's actually going to happen.  Six weeks isn't long enough.  I winced last week wondering what Alison's version of her encounter with Cole would be (i.e. instead of putting the bat down to wistfully gaze at her sleeping, he shows up extremely intoxicated, swinging the bat around wildly, breaking stuff and screaming at her...)  But I don't think I want to see how badly Noah comes off here if he acts like this in his own version.  But then again maybe we won't get more Alison episodes where it's all about the creeps.

 

I've started to imagine that maybe the ending of the show will be the reverse of the book ending where the character kills his mistress.  What if Alison actually frames/sets Noah up to take the fall for the accident?  What if she's so frantic about being involved in his defense because she wants to sabotage it?  Maybe Helen sees this. 

Edited November 9, 2015 by Glade

[truthaboutluv]

Alison tells Noah that during her time in her weird commune place, she realized that she started using sex as a way to communicate because she couldn't verbally deal with her grief and pain and feelings. This of course after she makes it clear how hurt and insulted she was by his description of her in his book. And Noah's response is to later fuck her up against a tree...charming. And apparently their marriage was a shot-gun wedding. Once again, I'm further convinced that kid may not be Noah's because I noticed Alison mentioned nothing about being with Cole. 

 

You know, someone posted a week or two ago that they feel like Noah and Alison are coming off more like a hookup that went really bad and they're both kind of stuck now. Because they essentially blew up their lives, especially him with a wife and four children, so they kind of have to stick it out to prove it wasn't all for nothing. But the great love and soulmate relationship - yeah no. And I have to agree with that.

 

I watch the show and feel what I feel and ignore what the writers tell me I should feel but honestly, I watched Noah and Alison in his version tonight and was just left thinking, "no really, the writers WANT me to root for them...REALLY?" I mean that ending scene could not be any less subtle, where essentially Noah sees Alison as this dark force in his life that came in and destroyed it, hence the murder at the end of the book. Yeah that just screams greatest love of all time. 

 

Helen's part was interesting. I don't know that I buy that she was THAT nice and friendly to Noah at the hospital but they clearly did come to an amicable arrangement and stopped the divorce and they did seem fairly friendly in his version. And kudos to her for getting rid of her mother. I'm awful because I laughed at Margaret's slow, pathetic, "please feel sorry for me" walk down the stairs after Helen put her out and then she deals her final hand by telling Helen that Helen's dad is divorcing her and Helen just goes "sorry to hear that." That cracked me up. 

 

So anyone get some vibes between Helen and the very hot doctor who treated Martin...just me? I was totally thinking, "get it Helen." I'm also a little suspect about that trip with the friend she claims she was going on when she told Noah he could stay in the house for the weekend. Me thinks Helen's getting her groove back and good for her. Hopefully it goes a lot better than that mess with Max. Speaking of Helen, yeah I'm even more convinced Witney killed Scotty. No matter how much Helen would yes, want to protect her kids from dealing with their father going to jail, I can't see her going as far as saying she'd sell the house to pay Oscar and all that...uh uh, she's determined to help Noah for a reason and Witney being the killer would be a perfect reason in my opinion. 

 

During the end of the flashback, I assumed that Helen got cut off and I think the present day scene proves that.

 

 

I didn't get that because remember Helen is the one paying the guy to represent Noah who we know is not cheap because Noah specifically said he couldn't afford him when he showed up. As someone above said, she probably just doesn't have access to that kind of money on the fly since a lot of her assets is in the trust and she mentioned selling the house as an off-hand suggestion, with the clear indication that she could get the money if she really wanted to. The father is an asshole sure but the mother is who Helen went off which I doubt he would care about. So I can't see why her dad would cut her off. 

 

Timelines on this show are messing me up.  When did she sleep with Oscar?  Is it possible that there are three choices for daddy?

 

 

It's at least over six months or so since Alison slept with Oscar, so there's no way. Remember, after Alison slept with Oscar is when Noah left Helen and then proceeded to have his four month sex-fest while Alison was in another commune with her crazy mother. And then this season picked up with it apparently being months after the events of the season finale and Noah and Alison together at Yvonne and Robert's place. So I can't see any way that Oscar is the father.

Edited November 9, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[bunnywithanaxe]

I don't know who I hate more, Noah or Helen's "this is OUR divorce" parents.

[Nanrad]

truth, i got a vibe between Helen and the doctor too. :p

[chocolatine]

I knew it wasn't possible due to what's happening in the present, but for a moment I wished Alison would tell Noah that she was leaving him for Sebastian Junger.

 

I'm normally in Helen's corner (with the exception of stoned driving with children), but the way she threw the apple core at Trevor made me really dislike her. It's such a demeaning thing to do. I wouldn't throw an apple core at a dog, let alone my own child.

 

I'm glad she finally threw her toxic mother out. It's one thing to say nasty things to Helen and Noah directly; it's another thing to try to get Martin to say that he hates his dad. I loved his response - "I hate all of you."

Edited November 9, 2015 by chocolatine

[LilaFowler]

I hope the baby is Noah's.  If it ends up being Cole's, I will roll my eyes and change the channel.  It will have crossed over into daytime soap opera territory and ...nah.  Can't do it.  Also, it's bad enough that Helen seems to be fully entrenched in the present-time mess.  I'd like to learn that Cole managed to successfully extricate himself with little to no baggage.

[chocolatine]

I'd like to learn that Cole managed to successfully extricate himself with little to no baggage.

 

Well, there's still going to be the non-trivial issue that one of his brothers is dead.

Edited November 9, 2015 by chocolatine

[ScoobieDoobs]

Poor Margaret.  The red hair was pretty bad.  But now her hair with no color makes her look 900 hundred years old & positively ghastly.  Don't get me wrong, I only feel a teeny tiny bit sorry for her -- and that's as a viewer only.  If I had to be anywhere near this monster woman, I'd run as far as possible.  Is Bruce ever NOT a complete & total shithead & dickwad?  Helen is pretty nice considering these awful people she's got for parents.

 

Didn't know Sebastian Junger is only 53.  He looks much older, but he's still smokin' hot.  OK, so Alison's got Junger there, and I'm sure Ms. Sex-on-a-stick could get him with a mere wink (or even a blink) -- and yet she prefers that banging-from-behind quickie with Noah?  What the what?  It was like she was passively enduring it.  I expected her to scream, after she said she was pregnant -- "And the kid's gonna be an ugly little red-haired fucker just like Oscar, dickhead!!"

Edited November 9, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Blakeston]

Of course Oscar wants 100k, I expected that. Was not expecting Helen to offer to put up the house for her ex husband's defense. That's nuts.

 

Unless Noah is taking the rap for someone in their family.

 

I'm normally in Helen's corner (with the exception of stoned driving with children), but the way she threw the apple core at Trevor made me really dislike her. It's such a demeaning thing to do. I wouldn't throw an apple core at a dog, let alone my own child.

 

I wouldn't throw an apple core at a dog, either - but I'd throw one at Trevor.

[Otherkate]

 

I'm glad she finally threw her toxic mother out. It's one thing to say nasty things to Helen and Noah directly; it's another thing to try to get Martin to say that he hates his dad. I loved his response - "I hate all of you."

 

Best line of the night.

[RococoChanel]

Am I an awful person because I laughed at the apple throw? It was a joke. She wasn't trying to maim her kid. 

[RedInk]

Not sure how Helen loses her money, but I didn't get the impression that it's just hard for her to get her hands on. The lawyer seemed a little condescending when he asked if she could afford the payout, and mortgaging your home is typically a last resort. This episode also seemed to present a shift for Helen, rejecting her parents, and I don't think it's a coincidence that it ends with her offering up her home. This show writes exceptional characters, but it isn't very subtle. We must be in for a lot of baby daddy angst, as well, since Allison specifically mentioned the six-week time period since she'd last had sex.

Oh, I laughed at the apple throw, too. It was playful! I'm a terrible person because I felt sorry for Helen's completely horrible mother when she was leaving the house, but can't ever muster sympathy for Allison.

Edited November 9, 2015 by RedInk

[GeminiDancer]

Oh, Noah... Stay in your epic douchebagness. At least Oscar knows he's an asshole. Noah tries to act as if he's a good person, and he's just not. He's selfish and controlling. I loved how Athena saw right through him. He needs Alison's grief to keep her tied to him, and her independence is a threat. And moron, the woman just told you that she tried to fill the void of grief with sex and not having it has been good for her. What do you do? You manhandle her up against a tree! Way to not get the point, dickhead.

 

Ms. Treem, if you're trying to make Noah and Alison into this couple we should be rooting for, you're failing hard. How is she expecting me to root for them? All I see is them bringing out the worst in each other. 

[teddysmom]

Except didn't we see in a flash forward Noah telling the lawyer that they went to Cole's wedding, and he was angry and left and that's when they think he ran down Scottie? 

 

So Cole probably married the bartender/babysitter.  Isn't she the actress from Maria Full of Grace? 

 

If this all ends up that the two original couples get back together it will be BONKERS.  TBH Scottie probably should have been killed. What a fucking dick. 

[grumpypanda]

And Noah thought he was free from the crazy mother-in-law, ha ha. Athena may not be toxic like Margaret but she sure is going to annoy the hell out of Noah.

I don't understand why Noah got a two bedroom apartment to share with his girlfriend and four kids. Where is Alison supposed to sleep when the kids are there, the couch? I know money is tight but Alison could get a job or sell her house and help pay rent on a bigger place.

Why has it been six weeks since Noah and Alison have sceen each other? Martin was only in the hospital for ten days so where was Noah for the other 32 days?

[Mistletoe]

Noah is a douche. Why is Alison so irresistible? Kudos to Helen for finally telling her wretched mother off. Where the eff is Cole?

[Constantinople]

How can Helen sell the house if it's owned by the trust?

 

I disagree with Helen about Margaret's motivations.  I don't think Margaret wanted Helen's marriage to fail because Margaret and Bruce's marriage was a sham.  I think Margaret wanted Helen's marriage to fail because Margaret hated Noah and always looked down on him.

[cardigirl]

 

Timelines on this show are messing me up. When did she sleep with Oscar? Is it possible that there are three choices for daddy?

I've been thinking this all along....

 

 

Not sure how Helen loses her money, but I didn't get the impression that it's just hard for her to get her hands on. The lawyer seemed a little condescending when he asked if she could afford the payout, and mortgaging your home is typically a last resort. This episode also seemed to present a shift for Helen, rejecting her parents, and I don't think it's a coincidence that it ends with her offering up her home. This show writes exceptional characters, but it isn't very subtle. We must be in for a lot of baby daddy angst, as well, since Allison specifically mentioned the six-week time period since she'd last had sex.
Oh, I laughed at the apple throw, too. It was playful! I'm a terrible person because I felt sorry for Helen's completely horrible mother when she was leaving the house, but can't ever muster sympathy for Allison.

All of this. But I too felt bad for her mother, and hope that this was a necessary, but temporary break. It's too easy to blame the "Gorgon" for all of this, but Helen may be able to get some clarity and may even be able to reach out to her mother at some point.

[MamaMax]

Unless Noah is taking the rap for someone in their family.

 

 

But Noah being acquited does not protect anyone. If he were convicted, the authorities would put it to rest, but if he were found not quilty they could persue the case against someone else.

 

Ms. Treem, if you're trying to make Noah and Alison into this couple we should be rooting for, you're failing hard. How is she expecting me to root for them? All I see is them bringing out the worst in each other. 

 

Yeah, I'm not sure we are supposed to root for them. I am with those who think they are trying desperately NOT to admit that their affair was a tremendous mistake which ruined a lot of lives.   

I was also interested to see that, in Helen's version, she told Noah she was cool with him being in contact with ALsion, but then when he got to the commune, it sounded like he hadn't really been in touch much at all. Maybe exclusively by text?  Red flag. The judge told Noah that the KIDS were to have no contact, not that HE had to basically shut her out for 6 weeks.  The Martin health situation was only the last 10-11 days of their separation, correct? So what was he doing the month prior?

Edited November 9, 2015 by MamaMax

[cardigirl]

It's at least over six months or so since Alison slept with Oscar, so there's no way. Remember, after Alison slept with Oscar is when Noah left Helen and then proceeded to have his four month sex-fest while Alison was in another commune with her crazy mother. And then this season picked up with it apparently being months after the events of the season finale and Noah and Alison together at Yvonne and Robert's place. So I can't see any way that Oscar is the father.

Because she confessed to Noah at same cottage that she had slept with Oscar two weeks ago. 

Edited November 9, 2015 by cardigirl

[nara]

Am I an awful person because I laughed at the apple throw? It was a joke. She wasn't trying to maim her kid. 

I think she didn't actually mean to hit him and was surprised that she did.  However, that's perhaps not the best example to set for the kiddies. :)

 

I liked that Helen dropped the hostility with Noah.  It may seem unfair that Noah gets everything he wants, but I think ultimately Helen will be happier for letting go of the anger.  

 

As much as I liked Helen telling her mother off, I hope that she doesn't continue to blame her mother for her problems.  Helen had a choice in whose advice she took, and she should own her choices.  I assume that it was just a matter of her venting after a scary visit to the ER and that going forward she will have a healthier and more mature relationship with her parents.  I do think she was spot on about her mother wanting her marriage to fail.  Misery loves company, and Margaret was probably annoyed that her husband loved his little gumdrop more than her.  I actually think that the breakup of her marriage might end up being the best thing for Helen--she is releasing pent up emotions that she's been hiding for years.

 

Whitney-- you can share a room with your sister, and not just for a weekend.  Plenty of people do this every day, and don't imagine you'll have your own room in college.  However, she did show some maturity in comforting her mother and getting an appropriate cake for her brother.  Maybe she is the type that steps up during a crisis, but is a spoiled brat in other times.

 

It's nice to see Allison smile -- Ruth Wilson has a lovely smile when she's allowed to use it!  The yoga retreat (and the six weeks break from Noah and sex) were good for her.  I like that she has become more self-aware about her relationship with sex.  However, this is the second time she has had somewhat rough, semi-public sex (first time was with Cole on the hood of the car). That suggests that she has some way to go still.  Also, she clearly did not seem that happy that Noah is now free to marry her.  I don't think she really wants it.  

 

I thought we got good insight into Noah this episode.  

1) The shine has come off the affair for Noah.  It will be interesting to see if he embraces new fatherhood or feels trapped with Allison.  He is clearly nostalgic about family life, but that was a look of fear when Allison announced she was pregnant.  "i blew up my life for you, Allison." Sounds like Helen was right in that last episode--he's already starting to blame her for his decisions.

2) "I'm the asshole in the book.  I destroy everyone I care about. I ruin my life. The story isn't even about you.  It's about me."  A) He sees the "story" being about him and not them--that's telling.  B) He really seems to hate himself.  I think that's why he comes off as such a jerk in his own POV. Perhaps others don't think of him as badly as he thinks of himself. C) Sex with Allison is about him.  About Inspiring him to write.  Not about them.

3) He is so desperate to have a happy ending in his book--as though that will somehow create a happy ending in his real life.  The reiki helps him see that he has to release his demons, so he changes the book ending to the one that his editor wants.  It will be interesting to see if he now believes his relationship with Allison is now doomed or if the releasing of the demons helps them move forward as a couple.  

4) His reaction to Sebastian Junger was interesting.  Noah doesn't seem to have a lot of people to whom he looks up--he has poor relationships with his father and his father-in-law, for example.  He pooh-poohed everything about the retreat until Junger recommended reiki. 

 

On a side note, was I the only one who was afraid we might see another erection this episode during the reiki? 

[grumpypanda]

Because she confessed to Noah at same cottage that she had slept with Oscar two weeks ago.

Maybe we're all confused, I thought that Alison slept with Oscar shortly after Noah went back to to city with Helen which would have been the end of summer. It seemed like a whole winter had passed and we were into another summer so it's been nearly a year since Alison slept with Oscar. It has to be summer now because it's warm in New York and its certainly not the same summer when the affair began. I don't see how it's possible that it's Oscar's baby unless Alison slept with him again which is doubtful.

[GeminiDancer]

Because she confessed to Noah at same cottage that she had slept with Oscar two weeks ago. 

 

Alison and Oscar had sex in late fall/early winter.

[taragel]

I thought this episode felt very different from previous ones, and not necessarily in a good way. Like the person who wrote this one maybe hadn't been watching the show or just had a totally different outlook on the characters. Alison being actually self-aware about herself and her relationship to sex was surprising, as was Noah saying "the best 10 days ever" to the kids when he's always been super annoyed at having to parent before. I didn't like the vilification of Margaret, either, I know she's an unpleasant person, but her husband is equally unpleasant, if not far more selfish and repugnant, and I'm starting to feel like men get away with doing the worst shit yet we're supposed to feel some sort of admiration/empathy for them, while women just have to put up with it and get hated for it anyway. I suppose that's realistic but man, it's tiresome. 

 

I was glad that Helen found some zen and maturity to check out of the competitive divorce olympics but man, Noah couldn't even compliment her back after she said he was a good father. What a douchecanoe. I mean for a million reasons, but that was the smallest thing he could've offered and NOPE.

 

And then he's selfish and awful to Alison as per usual. The symmetry of the tree sex scene with his first viewing of her and Cole couldn't be missed. He's turned into what he was repulsed but secretly turned on by so things feel full circle. I hope that baby isn't Cole's. I didn't think they'd go there but the timing of it all...sigh. 

 

The future present scene made me further convinced that Whitney must've run down Scotty and they're covering for her. And maybe the reason Alison promised to get him off is because of guilt because he knows/finds out at some point that the baby isn't his. But then...I don't think Noah's a big enough person to go on raising a kid that he knows isn't his, when he already had four/didn't want another/is a shitty selfish person with little interest in parenting already.

[Constantinople]

Alison tells Noah that during her time in her weird commune place, she realized that she started using sex as a way to communicate because she couldn't verbally deal with her grief and pain and feelings. This of course after she makes it clear how hurt and insulted she was by his description of her in his book. And Noah's response is to later fuck her up against a tree...charming.

Not only that, but he turned Alison around to take her from behind, Noah's m.o. when he feels the need to reassert dominance (he did the same thing to Helen when they briefly got back together last season).

What's particularly startling is this wasn't Allison's POV.  It was Noah's POV.  It's as if he's robot who can record and mimic human behavior, but doesn't know what it means.

[truthaboutluv]

Because she confessed to Noah at same cottage that she had slept with Oscar two weeks ago.

 

 

Hmm, I may need to rewatch the scene but I thought she was talking about seeing Cole when she said it was two weeks ago and then her sleeping with Oscar was a separate confession. Now that I think about it as I type, I'm pretty certain that was what it was. She says she slept with Oscar and Noah asks when and she says it was when they were separated which theoretically would fit with the timeline of just before the four month period when she went off to the commune and Noah had his sex-a-thon.

 

Then Noah says fine, that he's not happy about it but they were separated. And then she says she saw Cole and Noah asks when and she says two weeks ago, when he brought her her stuff. So I cannot see anyway that Oscar could possibly be this kid's baby daddy. That would be some real soap opera no concept of time kind of madness. 

 

I was glad that Helen found some zen and maturity to check out of the competitive divorce olympics but man, Noah couldn't even compliment her back after she said he was a good father. What a douchecanoe. I mean for a million reasons, but that was the smallest thing he could've offered and NOPE.

 

 

This. When she told him he was an excellent father and he just smiled and happily accepted this as truth, I kept thinking, okay any second now he'll tell her she's an amazing mom. But alas, I should know better by now. Still, in the interest of fairness, this was Helen's version of the truth and as I said in my original post, much as I like Helen well enough, I'm not sure I buy that she was THAT nice and THAT accommodating. Did she agree to stop with the litigation and go back to mediation, absolutely. But telling Noah to call Alison and calling him an excellent father - I'm a little skeptical. But still points for her realizing that the fighting wasn't helping any of them. 

 

I know she's an unpleasant person, but her husband is equally unpleasant, if not far more selfish and repugnant, and I'm starting to feel like men get away with doing the worst shit yet we're supposed to feel some sort of admiration/empathy for them, while women just have to put up with it and get hated for it anyway.

 

 

I never got the impression that Bruce is getting any kind of pass and the show is suggesting that he is not as much of an asshole himself. The man was absolutely awful and disgusting in Cole's memory of their conversation while Cole drove him home and he was a major asshole plenty of times last season. Also I thought both him and Margaret were inappropriately self-involved and made a situation that was supposed to be about Helen, all about them. However, he wasn't living with Helen and in her ear every second like Margaret.

 

So yeah, Margaret was the one that got Helen's ire because she was the one there every single day spewing her bile. Seems like Bruce was far more caught up in his new relationship with his so called lost love. I doubt he even gave much thought to Helen and the kids with the exception of the threat of Noah possibly getting some of Helen's trust money. That would definitely get his attention. 

[taragel]

I never got the impression that Bruce is getting any kind of pass and the show is suggesting that he is not as much of an asshole himself. The man was absolutely awful and disgusting in Cole's memory of their conversation while Cole drove him home and he was a major asshole plenty of times last season. Also I thought both him and Margaret were inappropriately self-involved and made a situation that was supposed to be about Helen, all about them. However, he wasn't living with Helen and in her ear every second like Margaret.

I guess it was really just from the cab scene, although there was a line when he screamed over Margaret tonight about "I fell in love and I seduced her" or something. Maybe wrongly, but I felt like the show was trying to make us sympathize with him cheating for realizing his marriage was a mess and never what he wanted so he went out and did something about it, like that's far more admirable than suffering in silence like Margaret did. I don't know...maybe it's just my wrong interpretation or it's just the avalanche (heh) of the gender portrayals and the way they're seemingly framed. I feel like both Margaret and Yvonne and even Cole's mom to some degree (thought not Athena necessarily) are all meant to be seen in a certain domineering, nitpicking awful kind of way, and also that's often Noah's perception of both Helen and even Allison at times. Sometimes I feel like the women are just reduced to shrieking harpies, but I guess the other side is that men are reduced to totally out-of-control, thinking-with-their-dicks behavior most of the time.

 

Eh, I guess it's just a little dissatisfying to me that the characters aren't more complex and nuanced. Because of the show's structure we naturally get a lot of repetition and it often feels like so much more could be done with the different perspectives to make the characters more distinct from each other? Especially the secondary folks. I almost want them to go further with the differences in how people see themselves and how others see them, I guess. But then, I'd probably be even more confused about what was reality if they did! Lol. There's no winning.

 

Oh I forgot to say before that I'm really glad Martin's stomach problems had a legit payoff and ending diagnosis and wasn't just IBS or psychosomatic/stress-enduced vaguery, and that it actually spurred the plot forward, by making Noah and Helen realize the kids are the most important thing.

Edited November 9, 2015 by taragel

[JenE4]

I think the writers must have been reading this board. This episode was a checklist confirmation of all of the dysfunctional stuff many of us have been pointing out all along. Yes, Helen not defending her husband to her parents throughout their entire marriage is going to take a toll on the relationship. True that Noah was only drawn to the sadness and sex appeal in Allison and doesn't care at all about supporting her feelings. And, yes, Allison never felt safe opening up her emotions to anyone--including Noah--and uses sex as a defense mechanism to avoid her feelings. Noah and Allison are on two completely different planes and are mismatched--don't even remotely try to care about wanting to support what's important to the other person. And, yes, the baby can be Cole's. She hasn't had sex (with Noah) in 6 weeks but did with Cole maybe 5 weeks ago? Granted, IRL having a baby can be off by 2 weeks either way and still be on time, but if the baby is "premature"... da-da-DUM! Cole has to have done the math and realized it could be his. I wonder whether there'll be a future episode in which that all blows up and Noah finds out?

[nara]

I guess it was really just from the cab scene, although there was a line when he screamed over Margaret tonight about "I fell in love and I seduced her" or something. Maybe wrongly, but I felt like the show was trying to make us sympathize with him cheating for realizing his marriage was a mess and never what he wanted so he went out and did something about it, like that's far more admirable than suffering in silence like Margaret did.

My interpretation of that line was that he was an pathetic old man trying to recapture his youth. It did not make me sympathetic at all.

[cardigirl]

Hmm, I may need to rewatch the scene but I thought she was talking about seeing Cole when she said it was two weeks ago and then her sleeping with Oscar was a separate confession. Now that I think about it as I type, I'm pretty certain that was what it was. She says she slept with Oscar and Noah asks when and she says it was when they were separated which theoretically would fit with the timeline of just before the four month period when she went off to the commune and Noah had his sex-a-thon.

 

Then Noah says fine, that he's not happy about it but they were separated. And then she says she saw Cole and Noah asks when and she says two weeks ago, when he brought her her stuff. So I cannot see anyway that Oscar could possibly be this kid's baby daddy. That would be some real soap opera no concept of time kind of madness. 

Thanks for this, I'll try to rewatch the episode again tonight.  I could have sworn she said she slept with Oscar two weeks ago, because I remember thinking at the time that the show was going to go there and I had been thinking the baby was Oscar's because of her reddish hair.  Ha ha!  Can't believe I got THAT confused, but it's possible.  

[jrlr]

In the previews for next week at a dinner party, there seems to be some sort of tension between Alison and some woman named Eden(?) I think as well as Alison and Noah.  Does anyone know who Eden is?.  

[Lemons]

Why do people assume she was cut off? Because of the off brand Bisquick? Maybe she's just trying to be less financially dependent on her awful, awful parents.

 

that wasn't off brand Bisquick, it  was more expensive organic pancakes, probably for the kid with Crohn's. 

 

The problem is that Helen is a middle aged  woman   with 4 children and is 100% financially dependent on her parents.  Her parents pay for EVERYTHING.  With that, they attached strings which were their over involvement in Helen's life.  Helen accepted the situation all these years.  She chose to remain "wealthy" without working for it.  If she really wants to be independent, she will have to transfer her kids into public school, sell the brownstone and move into a 2 bedroom in Queens.  

[HumblePi]

The only time I like Alison is when she's with Cole so I wouldn't mind the baby being his, although I do think he deserves better. Noah, I cannot stand. Didn't like the tree sex scene, I never think Alison & Noah's scenes are hot although I'm sure that scene was meant to be uncomfortable and repugnant, which it was.

So he runs over his lover in his book. Makes perfect sense why they would want to change the venue, although his book ending would be admissible anyway I would think.

Of course Oscar wants 100k, I expected that. Was not expecting Helen to offer to put up the house for her ex husband's defense. That's nuts. I get her dad not wanting to finance Noah's defense but that's a lot for Helen to risk to keep her baby daddy out of jail, don't see Alison doing that.

Noah's focus and goal is to have Alison nearby for sex when it's convenient for him. Alison had six weeks in the retreat to figure it all out and realize that when she met Noah she was holding her feelings about losing Gabriele inside. Becoming involved with Noah was part of her reckless behavior and how she acted it out. Sex was her release. Now she's telling Noah that sex is not the outlet that she needs anymore and she's thinking clearly. Noah definitely didn't want to hear that. "great, great, is that something you're going to continue once we leave here?"

 

I agree with you about the sex against the tree. It looked more like a vicious angry rape more than an impromptu love-making. She had just said 'you can't control me' and oh boy, he sure ignored that and went right ahead and controlled her through the sexual situation. He was stunned when she told him that she's pregnant. After that, Noah angrily changed the ending to his book by running over Alison with the car. I felt it was a metaphor about how his feelings towards Alison changed that day and how he killed his feelings for her.

[Nanrad]

I thought this episode felt very different from previous ones, and not necessarily in a good way. Like the person who wrote this one maybe hadn't been watching the show or just had a totally different outlook on the characters. Alison being actually self-aware about herself and her relationship to sex was surprising, as was Noah saying "the best 10 days ever" to the kids when he's always been super annoyed at having to parent before. I didn't like the vilification of Margaret, either, I know she's an unpleasant person, but her husband is equally unpleasant, if not far more selfish and repugnant, and I'm starting to feel like men get away with doing the worst shit yet we're supposed to feel some sort of admiration/empathy for them, while women just have to put up with it and get hated for it anyway. I suppose that's realistic but man, it's tiresome. 

 

I was glad that Helen found some zen and maturity to check out of the competitive divorce olympics but man, Noah couldn't even compliment her back after she said he was a good father. What a douchecanoe. I mean for a million reasons, but that was the smallest thing he could've offered and NOPE.

TBH, I loathe both of her parents. I also don't think he series is doing him any favors either. Rather than flat out being honest with his wife, and then leaving, he goes on a trip and has an affair because "why does Noah get to have all of the fun???" (he didn't say that, but that's how it felt). He was then out of contact with Margaret for DAYS before admitting he was leaving her for another, younger woman. He bragged about seducing his mistress. He'd probably be even more unbearable than Margaret if he'd lived with Helen instead. He's a gigantic ass. He and Margaret made that meeting with the lawyer about them and Helen had to scream constantly to shut them up. It's hard for me to believe we're supposed to feel anything for her dad because disgust. 

 

Some people dislike Margaret based on how she treats people such as Helen, her grandkids, and Noah. There are some who sympathize for her because of her divorce. I don't see much of that for Helen's dad--in fact, any. He's allowed to get away with it in the series because he's a powerful figure and has beaucoup money, which I'm willing to bet Margaret gets a pretty penny. He has the power to get away with it, but no one is giving him a pat on the ass and saying "poor Helen's dad, go be happy."

 

Just about no one here has vilified Helen for being cheated on--only a handful said she shares some blame. Noah gets a lot of shit for his actions, which is rightfully so.  Helen "put up" with Noah's behavior because someone had to be an adult/parent while the other "found himself." She's keeping it together for their kids.

 

I was waiting for Noah NOT to compliment her because I knew he couldn't acknowledge that Helen was a good parent as well. It would be too big of him.

 

Hmm, I may need to rewatch the scene but I thought she was talking about seeing Cole when she said it was two weeks ago and then her sleeping with Oscar was a separate confession. Now that I think about it as I type, I'm pretty certain that was what it was. She says she slept with Oscar and Noah asks when and she says it was when they were separated which theoretically would fit with the timeline of just before the four month period when she went off to the commune and Noah had his sex-a-thon.

 

This. When she told him he was an excellent father and he just smiled and happily accepted this as truth, I kept thinking, okay any second now he'll tell her she's an amazing mom. But alas, I should know better by now. Still, in the interest of fairness, this was Helen's version of the truth and as I said in my original post, much as I like Helen well enough, I'm not sure I buy that she was THAT nice and THAT accommodating. Did she agree to stop with the litigation and go back to mediation, absolutely. But telling Noah to call Alison and calling him an excellent father - I'm a little skeptical. But still points for her realizing that the fighting wasn't helping any of them. 

 

I never got the impression that Bruce is getting any kind of pass and the show is suggesting that he is not as much of an asshole himself. The man was absolutely awful and disgusting in Cole's memory of their conversation while Cole drove him home and he was a major asshole plenty of times last season. Also I thought both him and Margaret were inappropriately self-involved and made a situation that was supposed to be about Helen, all about them. However, he wasn't living with Helen and in her ear every second like Margaret.

Sleeping with Oscar was a separate confession. It happened the night Whitney unexpectedly showed up, which set everything into motion regarding them needing to live in separate residences for the time being. Alison had revealed that she slept with Oscar to see where Noah's mind was regarding them and/or reveal her imperfections or something. But, that happened MONTHS ago. Besides Noah, Cole is the only one she slept with in a 6 week period. Oscar is not even in the running.

 

I agree, she was too accommodating, but I think Noah just wore her out. In HIS version, he is sleeping in their old bed and she's offering the house to him as she spends time with an old friend (or hot, yummy doctor) so he could have space for the kids. With that in mind, it's a little more believable. It's implied that Helen didn't raise anymore of an issue with Noah says his divorce is finalized, which means that litigation was off of the table and they just settled their differences. I think Helen told Noah to just call Alison because she can't pretend as if the woman doesn't exist or that she's going away any time soon. She's going to have to deal with her feelings regarding the woman who helped destroy her life--might as well start now. 

 

I agree. If we saw Bruce more, he'd be hated just as much, if not, more than Margaret.