S06.E02: JSS

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Will Enid provolone her ability to survive?

Has Deanna bleu her big chance to establish herself as the town's real leader?

Will Rick's next attempt at a zombie population colby successful?

 

ASZ had a good run, before it crumbles soon.

Those Wolves, and Carol, are vicious; sliced and shredded their prey with ease.

Ron's arc is believable, but it still grated.

[catrox14]

ASZ had a good run, before it crumbles soon.

Those Wolves, and Carol, are vicious; sliced and shredded their prey with ease.

Ron's arc is believable, but it still grated.

 

I sure hope Rick and Co. have a longhorn term plan for this.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Just when you think Carol can't top herself, as a character you love to watch on-screen, she just keeps getting even mozzarella better and enjoyable.

[GreyBunny]

Jesse annoys me to no end and I can't wait for her to die (if she does) but the scissors?  Be quiet and have a seat, Beth, THAT'S how to kill with scissors.  Speaking of having a seat, the next time Jesse's barber shop opens, Carl and Daryl need to be the first in line.  

 

Morgan, all life is precious, yada yada, I get it, but your pendulum has swung too far the other way.  You need Rick as much as Rick needs you.

 

When Smoking Woman turned her head I expected to see a walker or something but that wolf attacked her so quickly and savagely my jaw hit the floor.  Good jump-scare, show!

 

Agree with the person upthread who was disgusted with Deanna for turning a blind eye to Pete's abuse and keeping him around when there was another doctor who could do the job.  Fuck you, Deanna.  Please die.

 

Love how Carol figured out how to disguise herself in no time flat.  I was worried someone from "our side" might mistake her for a real wolf and kill her, but then I remembered all of the Alexandrians still in town except for Aaron and maybe Jesse were peeing their pants worse than FPP and couldn't kill her even if they tried.

 

Poor tortoise, as soon as it showed up I knew it was going to get eaten.  :(

Edited October 19, 2015 by GreyBunny

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

The look on Carol's face, when Mrs Neudermeyer got slaughtered, was "wow, metaphors are a real bitch!  hmm, now how do I get rid of Gabriel....". 

[GaT]

That was a good episode, I'm surprised, but happy. It was certainly better than last week.

 

That was a great episode overall, but one thing made me kind of angry. The show just casually killed off Holly, a character who has pretty much done nothing on the show 

That was probably why they killed her off, they hadn't done anything with her. I have to admit when I heard that Holly was hurt, my first thought was "who's Holly?" & I still can't remember who she is, but since she's dead, I guess it doesn't matter.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Has any character come farther that Carol? Think about where she was in the pilot and where she is now. I can't believe Melissa McBride played both Carols.

Totally agree, she went from an abused wife who couldn't do anything to a bigger badass than Rick.

 

I didn't miss Rick at all this week, maybe that's why I liked this episode. 

[Iguessnot]

 

-  Done in by not knowing how to operate a vehicle.  Talk about great survival instincts.  Enid may have picked hers up somewhere, but it sure wasn't from her parents!

 

 

 

 

-  So, there was a live driver, in the semi (before it plowed into the wall)?  If so, how did they do that with a walker right there to bite them??  If not, and remote controlled, not sure I can hand-wave that.  Or are they trying to tell me that the driver was live, but killed by Spencer's shooting, and then was reanimated when Spencer got there?  The last makes most sense, but despite the 'door' being stuck, Spencer didn't take that much time to get to the semi and open the cab door, did he??

 

 

They were trying to figure out fuses. I don't know how many drivers know much about them.

 

 

If you watch the truck screen in slo-mo you can see that Spencer sprayed the windshield with gun shots, so I assume that was the driver wedged up front.

[RedheadZombie]

I see they're headed down the same road with Morgan that they did with Tyreese.  I call it character suicide.  I adored Tyreese, and it pained me to read all the hate directed his way.  Morgan has taken T's place in my top three, but I'm going to start distancing myself from the character so I'm not so sad when he's gone.  Not killing was one thing, but all I could think of was - how many have died while Morgan's fucking around tying that guy up?

 

I think Enid is a wolf, and they sent her into the community.  The girl has the makings of a fine fighter.  She survived her parents' deaths, she ate raw turtle without gagging, she knew to kill the walker with a head wound.  All of this self-taught, because her parents were imbeciles.

 

I don't have a problem with Deanna staying outside.  She was correct in saying she was a detriment, didn't know how to fight, and would be someone else to save.  Since Maggie has a fondness for her, Maggie would have been the one distracted by Deanna's presence, and possibly die attempting to save her.  Plus, the actress really limped while she ran - she seemed pretty fragile.  If she doesn't know how to shoot, and doesn't have a gun anyway, how in the hell is she supposed to fight off machete-wielding nutjobs?  Her son on the other hand ........

 

Just love my girl Carole.  She may act mean toward Sam, but he sees right through it and keeps coming back.

[Bec]

she went from an abused wife who couldn't do anything to a bigger badass than Rick.

Jessie might be going down this path, too. She and Carol can start a club.

 

Was rooting for the wolves to get Father Pee-Pants and Ron. Dammit.

 

I think the reason the show made characters like Father Pee-Pants, Tyresse and Morgan into such… pacifists, is because they don’t want to do the “angry black man” trope. I mean, Tyresse got angry that one time someone set his girlfriend on fire, which is the kind of reaction you would expect from anyone in that situation, and some of the audience was like “oh no, it’s the ‘angry black man’ trope“. Now the problem is the writers skew too far the other way and made pretty much all the black men too soft for this world. No matter what they do, some people are gonna be unhappy with it.

 

Doubt it has anything to do with trying to prop up another character. It’s not like Carol would have looked less badass if Morgan had been more kill-happy. There was enough room in that town for the both of them to be badasses.

 

Anyway, I agree that this is probably setting up some kind of longer story arc for Morgan. I’m gonna wait and see, it could be good.

 

I think Rick sent Morgan back to Alexandria to let them know what had happened.

Hey, shouldn’t he be warning the townspeople instead of walking around silently glowering?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

They were trying to figure out fuses. I don't know how many drivers know much about them.

 

 

If you watch the truck screen in slo-mo you can see that Spencer sprayed the windshield with gun shots, so I assume that was the driver wedged up front.

 

My main problem with that whole scenario is I guess we don't know what happened before that scene - ie, were Enid's parents already walker killing Bosses by that time, so they weren't worried a couple of them there were just some feet away? - but they seemed very nonchalant about the approaching ravenous zombies before they got ambushed by the ones from behind.  Keep trying to find the manual or pushing random things inside the vehicle to get it started and running - or - maybe deal with the fact that hungry zombies are closing in, and no immediate safe escape route available.  I know where my priorities would lie, in that scenario, personally.

 

 

That seems like the most logical thing.  Neither a live driver+walker or remote-controlled really makes too much sense, realistically or in fantasy-land.

Edited October 19, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[lawless]

I loved that Carol sized the Wolves up so quickly, realized that they didn't have guns, and also realized how important it was to protect the armory. And disguised herself so well so fast. Like Walter White from Breaking Bad, I am fascinated with characters who make their way so effectively in violent situations by using their heads instead of relying more on physicality.

Regarding Morgan - clearly something transformative happened to him since we last saw him. I don't perceive him as weak or cowardly in any way. He's brave, intelligent, skilled, willing to endanger himself for others, perceptive, and quite the badass in his way. But he seems committed to the belief in giving people a chance to change and embrace their better natures. It's almost like he's a Buddhist monk -- maybe a fictional one, something about this seems to remind me of a movie or something, but I can't place it. Anyway I agree that he's been able to manage this way until now because he's been mobile and alone, and perhaps lucky. Living in a stationary place with vulnerable people is different, and I think he's smart enough to figure this out. The question will be what he does -- adapt and kill and continue to live with others, or maybe hit the road solo again and hold to his beliefs? Who knows, maybe neither. I wish Herschel was still around, I think he and Morgan would get along very well and be of a strange comfort to one another.

Anyway, I like that Morgan challenged Carol on her coldness. While in this scenario I think she was right, it seemed to open the way for her to allow herself to feel sadness a little, and that's interesting. I also loved the shot of Carol and Morgan passing each other in the street, walking 180 degrees from one another -- a little on the nose, but I liked it.

I did like that Carl was above the teenage love triangle and was willing to protect Ron. His hair is terrible, but he's actually turned into a pretty good kid.

Edited October 19, 2015 by lawless

[Iguessnot]

My main problem with that whole scenario is I guess we don't know what happened before that scene - ie, were Enid's parents already walker killing Bosses by that time, so they weren't worried a couple of them there were just some feet away? - but they seemed very nonchalant about the approaching ravenous zombies before they got ambushed by the ones from behind.  Keep trying to find the manual or pushing random things inside the vehicle to get it started and running - or - maybe deal with the fact that hungry zombies are closing in, and no immediate safe escape route available.  I know where my priorities would lie, in that scenario, personally.

 

 

That seems like the most logical thing.  Neither a live driver+walker or remote-controlled really makes too much sense, realistically or in fantasy-land.

Yeah it was weird they let themselves get bogged down in fuses when they should be running. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Would it be wrong to wish for a near-future scene when Rick finds out that the Wolves attacked and he didn't get to participate in the carnage of slaughtering the enemy?

 

"I didn't get to hack up anybody with my red-handled hatchet, or have a bloody-faced rant about these people still not getting it about the need to do anything to protect and survive!?  *grits teeth*  I am annoyed about that stuff, and then semi trucks randomly falling off quarry rock roads and ruining thangs."

Edited October 19, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[CletusMusashi]

It's almost like he's a Buddhist monk -- maybe a fictional one, something about this seems to remind me of a movie or something, but I can't place it. 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TechnicalPacifist

[Bec]

he seems committed to the belief in giving people a chance to change and embrace their better natures. It's almost like he's a Buddhist monk -- maybe a fictional one, something about this seems to remind me of a movie or something, but I can't place it.

Morgan reminded me of Batman with his no-kill rule. And part of that audience is also unhappy that Batman does this because of course the villains keep turning up again to hurt more people.

 

Some men (or wolves) just want to watch the world burn.

[Happy Harpy]

Go, Carol! Awesome.

Morgan, you failed this safe zone. Seriously, you let them go and now the Wolves know  that your community has guns -and if Blond Punk indeed took one, he can prove it. There's no way they're going to leave the place alone after this, imo.

I get that Carol and Morgan are supposed to mirror each other, and they do. I understand both their positions, I know that both of them struggle with their respective stances and according to the situation, either of them could end up with the most adapted reaction. But for me, in this particular case Morgan tried to hold on to his views in spite of the reality in front of his eyes (irreedeemable individuals) whereas Carol confronted this reality she didn't want to see in the first place.

Nevertheless, Carol not keeping one alive to make him talk might reveal a mistake later.

 

I love Carl and he's now one of my favorite characters. As much as teenage angst/love triangles annoy me, and as much as I yelled "No! Don't hesitate!", I'm finally glad for those moments when he shows he's still a kid and he still has a kid's heart, somewhere. The hesitation is something very "Young Rick", for me. Actually, he has some Ricktator in him, too: "Sit down, we're going to protect Judith and they will all die". Go, Carl!

 

Judith sighting! Cute as a button, two seconds of sweetness in a gore festival. Too bad there's no SORAS because I can't wait for her to dispatch Walkers, Wolves, or the likes of FPP.

 

I don't think Enid is a Wolf, they don't seem to go for subtlety and roundabout strategies as was noted upthread. I think she's traumatized and doesn't to want to belong for fear of losing people again.

 

Ron, moron of the year. He took it all from Daddy, didn't he? He can't be dead soon enough and I just hope no one will die because of him.

I liked that Jessie tried to talk to him, at least she's aware of a problem and takes the proactive road, and also how she went batshit to protect Sam. My only regret is the same as last week, she sounds self-indulgent by not acknowledging her own mistakes. Because Pete didn't only beat her, he also beat her kids (Carol said it again). So, any "I'm sorry I didn't protect you from your father but (it doesn't make it my fault he died/now things are going to change)", even said on an angry tone, would have allowed me to be fully on her side.

I kind of hope that Carol takes in little Sam as an apprentice and teaches him to fight. He's got good instincts, since it's her he's following like a puppy.

 

Nice Chekov bag, and nice flashback follow-up with the horn.

 

I understand Deanna's rationale about not wanting to be a burden, yet I can't help but notice that it conveniently kept her out of harm way. Mmh. I can see her stepping down (actually, I want her to) and let Maggie take her place as the "mayor", especially if Maggie is pregnant.

Spencer screwed up, royally. From his last conversation with Rosita, I feel that he's at a make it or break it moment, now that he realized what the world's really about. Maybe he can improve.

 

I still missed Rick, Michonne, Daryl and Glenn. Morgan has featured a lot in both episodes so far, and I know that people were waiting for his return so that's probably logical, but I hope he'll now be included in the character turnover as far as screentime goes.

[GreyBunny]

Bec, no kidding.  They already had the let the bad guy live and watch it bite them in the ass later storyline with Tyreese, it's frustrating seeing it again.   They're not called the Unfair Wolves for nothing.

 

Whenever Carol bakes a casserole, bad things happen.  So if I ever see Carol start baking one of her Casseroles of Doom, I'm outta there.

Edited October 19, 2015 by GreyBunny

[Nashville]

So Enid is for sure with the Wolves right? When talking to Carl she slipped and said something about, "The town is so big lots of blindspots that's how WE..." and then Carl interrupted her. 

 

Also, Ron is with the Wolves too, right? That's why him and Enid were hugging before the attack.

 

There's potential about Enid being a Wolf, but I still don't buy it.  She'd been in the ASZ for several months before CDB showed up; if she was a Wolf plant, they'd have decimated the place long before.

 

Tara should have been out fighting the wolves instead of giving moral support to psuedo Doctor, she already had Eugene and Eric there. I knew that woman was going to die anyway, her injury was bad.

 

Tara just woke up out of a coma yesterday; I'll cut her a little slack for not feeling quite up to taking out machete-wielding psychopaths just yet - at least, not until she's at least gotten a couple of aspirin first.

 

How that wolf took out the smoking woman was crazy. My heart stopped a bit.

 

My first thought was Carol was daydreaming, because I could've sworn Machete Man was the splitting image of Ed.

 

Yes, she's untrained and she was scared.  But when Carol came in and told her how to use the gun she took and we see her assuming the stance and pointing the gun at the door.   She didn't collapse into tears and curl up in a corner or something.  

 

I don't have a problem with Olivia, but still - I don't quite see how a total ignorance of firearms qualifies you for the job of managing the armory.

 

The human race is on the verge of extinction. Morgan realizes how precious each living person now is. He's not a coward, he's not a punk, he's the only character with a long term perspective on what it means to survive the apocalypse -- and it does not involve the few remaining living people wiping each other out.

 

It does when some of the "remaining few" have overtly demonstrated a desire to kill every "normal" they can find.

IMHO Morgan and his current "Every Sperm Is Sacred" pacifist lifestyle doesn't acknowledge the karmic burden he is accumulating for the souls killed by the murderers he's permitted to roam free.

 

Mrs. Niedermyer was the one Carol saw killed from the window.

That was different woman she mercy killed.

 

Carol's "mercy killing" was Erin - the woman in the food repository who agreed with Carol's "too many things trying to kill us already" remark.

 

-  Did anyone else think - never stopping to remember the place he walked into was the right place or not - that Morgan was walking into the pantry/armory when he entered the place with the door open; before his W friend from the forest was shown?  I was like "he's gonna find Olivia, who was told to shoot whoever opened the doors".  Glad to have worried for nothing.

 

I was SO waiting for that.

 

When Father Pee Pants and Morgan were tying up the Wolf and FPP asked Morgan where he learned how to fight like that, could anyone make out what his reply was?  I played it several times and never could quite understand it.

 

FPP: How did you learn how to do that?

Morgan: From a cheese maker.

 

I don't understand the 'why' of the wolves.  Yeah, it's great to see a lot of violence and blood and who doesn't love watching an episode devoted to NinjaCarol AGAIN (me) but what was the point of the wolves.  They aren't like the late Joe and the Merletones.  They don't steal.  The men don't rape.  They don't move into the communities they invade.  Is it just violence for violence sake because if it is, then they need to elect Carol Pack President because she's their girl.

 

That was explained in Morgan's earlier encounter with the Wolves at the end of last season. 

The Wolves believe the walkers are current-day incarnations of the wolves which used to be one of the apex predators in this part of the country. 

Those earlier wolves were hunted to the point of elimination/extinction by humans.

Today's Wolf cult appears to be focused on eliminating the primary existing threat to this "new breed of wolf" - which is normal humans.

 

 

My main problem with that whole scenario is I guess we don't know what happened before that scene - ie, were Enid's parents already walker killing Bosses by that time, so they weren't worried a couple of them there were just some feet away? - but they seemed very nonchalant about the approaching ravenous zombies before they got ambushed by the ones from behind.  Keep trying to find the manual or pushing random things inside the vehicle to get it started and running - or - maybe deal with the fact that hungry zombies are closing in, and no immediate safe escape route available.  I know where my priorities would lie, in that scenario, personally.

 

Enid's parents demonstrated very low survival potential; they were more concerned with maintaining some facade of normalcy in an anything-but-normal circumstance than they were with actually preserving their lives.  Enid would have been better served with parents who  less concerned with maintaining a facade of normalcy, and more concerned with saving their

 

Important lesson here: before the Zombie Apocalypse breaks out, (a) learn how to change a damn fuse in your damn car, and (b) keep some damn spares handy.

[lulee]

Morgan is on an arc. I am completely unspoiled, but I am convinced that we'll see what events led to his stance on no using lethal force and probably a modification of that stance.

I've seen comparisons to Tyrese, but the question of whether and when to kill humans is a much larger theme on this show. All the way back to Shane, Dale, and to Herschel, Rick in the bar, farmerRick, the Governor and his minions in 1000 different cases, Carol and Karen and David then Lizzie, the Termites and then later at the church, the Claimers, Pete in Alexandria, and I'm probably forgetting other situations. Morgan's situation in this episode was another manifestation of that theme. We will see more of his journey. I'm sure of it.

Thinking back to the church, would Maggie or Glenn have been ready to kill Wolves? I'd say they wouldn't have then.

And Morgan had good reason to think he was up to fighting them, at least in small groups. He did a heck of a lot more good in the situation than Eugene or Alexandrians who were completely defenseless.

Edited October 19, 2015 by lulee

[magdalene]

Father Pee Pants still lives. Oh cruel world.

[lulee]

- Ok, so was this the very first completely Rick-less episode of TWD (aside from the pre-show "Previously, on amc's The Walking Dead" intro)?? And other than the show Pilot or first couple episodes, there can't have been many eps without a Daryl sighting either. Not too many times we've watched a TWD hour with no Glenn, as well. [3 of the original 'Atlanta 5' were MIA this week] Maybe Michonne's first complete disappearance since mid-season 4? Wow. Show was still good, even without a second of screen time from 3 of its "staples".

I think Rick wasn't in Slabtown and maybe one Governor-centric episode plus The Grove and maybe one other post prison-preTerminus. And Daryl and Glenn wouldn't have been in those except maybe one of the preTerminus ones when CDB was split into subgroups.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I think Rick wasn't in Slabtown and maybe one Governor-centric episode plus The Grove and maybe one other post prison-preTerminus. And Daryl and Glenn wouldn't have been in those except maybe one of the preTerminus ones when CDB was split into subgroups.

 

Oh.  Good points.  Just used to always seeing those 3, so its a bit of a jolt when they're not in an episode.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Morgan is on an arc. I am completely unspoiled, but I am convinced that we'll see what events led to his stance on no using lethal force and probably a modification of that stance.

I've seen comparisons to Tyrese, but the question of whether and when to kill humans is a much larger theme on this show. All the way back to Shane, Dale, and to Herschel, Rick in the bar, farmerRick, the Governor and his minions in 1000 different cases, Carol and Karen and David then Lizzie, the Termites and then later at the church, the Claimers, Pete in Alexandria, and I'm probably forgetting other situations. Morgan's situation in this episode was another manifestation of that theme. We will see more of his journey. I'm sure of it.

Thinking back to the church, wouldMaggie or Glenn have been ready to kill Wolves? They wouldn't have then.

And Morgan had good reason to think he was up to fighting them, at least in small groups. He did a heck of a lot more good in the situation than Eugene orAlexandrians who were completely defenseless.

 

Agreed.  And kinda like Brillip got his arc from 4.6-4.8 and Beth got her arc from 5.4-5.8, I'm betting Morgan's 'missing backstory' arc gets a similarly-sized run for part of the last half of s6-A. 

 

However, unlike the conclusion of the two previously mentioned arcs, here's to hoping Morgan is still alive and sticking after his personal arc is finished.

Edited October 19, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Anela]

I wondered if Morgan was walking back to where the others are dealing with the zombiethon they were leading last week. I wonder how far away they are, since he was on foot, and arrived in time to help.

 

I can't believe Spencer couldn't shoot that well! I thought that he, at least, had some practice.

I'm not sure how Enid could be one of the wolves, if they aren't letting anyone live. I wonder how they got together in the first place. 

Jessie was great - and the comment on Talking Dead, "how about that hair cut now?" as Ron walked in, made me LOL. 

I thought that Enid was kind of like a younger Carol, emotionally, at least: leaving, because people were dying. Don't get attached... 

[Soobs]

That Enid is a fool. Carl is really turning into husband material. He kills the wolf, protects Judith and get the casserole out on time. Looks like next week they may have to brown bag it and take it to go.

[Anela]

So did Carol finish off the kitchen lady because she was noisy or because she was going to die anyway?

I missed that she killed her. I thought she was just upset that she died.

I also missed who she told Morgan to leave - I rewound that part three times, and still didn't see that it was FPP. Hilarious! 

[Helena Dax]

I know those kids have been pretty sheltered  in Alexandria, but teenagers stop being whiny and moody pretty soon when there's a war (or a ZA). So Ron. grow up!

 

I like Morgan, but he was wrong. When you let some murderers go  free, to kill innocent people or be killed by another hands, your pacifism is very selfish. Anyway,  he was awesome.

 

Carol was magnificient! Songs will be sung about her and stuff. And I'm proud  of Aaron;  he might be the only Alexandrian  badasss.  

 

This episode was  epic, one of the best. Loved every second.

[kikaha]

Why didn't this happen years ago to the Alexandrians?  Before Rick's group got there, they have zero defense against marauders. 

 

Who took the photos the guy found on one of the Wolves near the end?

 

Why was Morgan the only one from Rick's party who made it back to the town in time to help?

[Lizzing]

Can someone remind me what the significance of the "A" written on the bannister outside of Carole's house is?  All I can recall is the A on the train car at Terminus.

 

Overall, I liked the episode, but the flashback to Enid's discovery of Alexandria reminded me of this: when Rick & Michonne rolled up on the ASZ, they heard kids playing outside.  On this ep, so did Enid.  Where the hell are those kids?  And what ever happened to that old couple who liked playing with Judith when CDB first arrived?

[Gulftastic]

Wolf Carol will be a popular choice for cosplay. She keeps on gaining awesome points.

 

I don't buy Carl being dumb enough to nearly get suckered by that guy whining about the pain in his leg. I think he'd have just put one in his head.

[Dodginblue]

Why didn't this happen years ago to the Alexandrians?  Before Rick's group got there, they have zero defense against marauders. 

 

Who took the photos the guy found on one of the Wolves near the end?

 

Why was Morgan the only one from Rick's party who made it back to the town in time to help?

It seems like the wolves have been making their way north so maybe just hadn't gotten to ASZ until now.

 

The photos were in a backpack that Aaron dropped when he and Daryl got trapped last season and were rescued by Morgan.

 

Rick sent Morgan back early in the last episode, after Rick took Carter out (the one who got bit by the tree walker) to tell the people in the town how it was going, what had happened.

[Macbeth]

I don't buy Carl being dumb enough to nearly get suckered by that guy whining about the pain in his leg. I think he'd have just put one in his head.

 

I actually do as Carl is used to killing zombies.  Also this guy was injured and looking for help - remember back during the 1st governor's attack one of his soldiers, a teen, tried to surrender to Carl and Carl shot him.  Rick and Herschel lectured Carl on how bad that was.  

 

Carl will not make this mistake again.

 

Why do the Alexandrians have an armory if no one knows how to shoot??  They have them piled up in the pantry and guarded by someone who has no idea about guns.  WTF  It would have made more sense to just dispose of the guns outside after newbies come in.  Still, on the other hand, guns is a normal part of society.

[JackONeill]

We haven't heard the last from those wolves. And Carols casserole didn't burn either.

 

I was actually worried about this at the beginning of the episode. I thought that they'd have a battle royale (like they did) and that our team would be successful and repel the enemy ONLY to have Alexandria burn down because the oven caught on fire.

[Johnny Dollar]

There were three people whose death would cause me to stop watching this show: Rick, Daryl and Carol. That list is now down to one person. Team Carol for life.

[nodorothyparker]

I don't buy Carl being dumb enough to nearly get suckered by that guy whining about the pain in his leg. I think he'd have just put one in his head.

 

I actually do as Carl is used to killing zombies.  Also this guy was injured and looking for help - remember back during the 1st governor's attack one of his soldiers, a teen, tried to surrender to Carl and Carl shot him.  Rick and Herschel lectured Carl on how bad that was.  

 

This was my thought as well.  Unless I'm misremembering, the last living person Carl killed was the kid at the prison all the way back in season 3.  He lost his gun over that and had to spend a full half season playing farmer with Rick at Herschel's urging.  That probably left quite the impression on him.

 

Plus I'm also willing to buy that the very thing he was worried about when they first got to the ASZ, that returning to relative civilization would make them soft, may be coming into play.  Seemingly 15 minutes before he was out peacefully pushing his kid sister in the stroller. 

[JackONeill]

Sorry if someone's already asked (answered) this. How did Morgan get to Alexandria so quick?  I don't keep precise notes and I don't rewatch the episodes, but wasn't he with Rick at the very end of last week's episode? So, he's not only a ninja with a stick but he can teleport???

Finding out Denise was also a doctor lowered my respect for Deanna even more. She should have never put up with Pete beating his wife and children, especially since they had another doctor who could have taken over in a push. It is not like either of them could do miraculous surgery to save lives since they did not have the necessary equipment. Deanna is the worse.

I think Denise addressed this by saying that Pete wouldn't let her come into the office. (or something like that. whatever it was she said, I took it to mean that Pete saw her as a threat, so kept her away. maybe I'm making things up. hey -- it's MY world.)

[SimoneS]

Why do the Alexandrians have an armory if no one knows how to shoot??  They have them piled up in the pantry and guarded by someone who has no idea about guns.  WTF  It would have made more sense to just dispose of the guns outside after newbies come in.  Still, on the other hand, guns is a normal part of society.

 

It is so weird. I understand why Deanna would not want everyone to have a gun, especially violent Pete, but how can everyone not know how to shoot? She knows that you have to shoot walkers in the head to kill them so she should have insisted everyone learn how to shoot. Spencer was pretty pathetic shooting from the wall. Before he left Rick told them that they need more look outs and that everyone needed to be armed. Did Deanna not understand the urgency?

 

Regardless, Enid was right about Alexandria being too big to protect, to many blind spots. It could be taken out quickly. Rick and his people need to get moving and look for somewhere more secure.

Edited October 19, 2015 by SimoneS

[india wilkes]

Is Eugene only going to be used for comic relief or something? he has the stupid mullet and now he says "funny" things. I am over it. 
 

Edited October 19, 2015 by india wilkes

[nodorothyparker]

Didn't Rick send Morgan back ahead of the horn going off to tell the ASZers that the great walker roundup was live and not just a drill as originally planned?  I know he mentioned it to Carol early in this episode to remind us that the town still has no idea that Rick and Co. aren't just standing around out at the quarry or that there's an enormous herd heading their way.

[StatMom]

What the hell is wrong with the Wolves? Do they really want to be the only 20 people left alive in the US? When does that get fun? 

 

Seriously. What is their end game? Just to have their little group survive? How long's that gonna last? Obviously rational thought is not leading their thought process.

[india wilkes]

I understand why Deanna would not want everyone to have a gun, especially violent Pete, but how can everyone not know how to shoot? She knows that you have to shoot walkers in the head to kill them so she should have insisted everyone learn how to shoot. Spencer was pretty pathetic shooting from the wall. Before he left Rick told them that they need more look outs and that everyone needed to be armed. Did Deanna not understand the urgency?

 

the severity in how defenseless they all were irked me! if you know there is a threat (even if you have not experienced said threat) then you should always be prepared. GAH

[nodorothyparker]

Armory girl (Olivia?) hiding in the closet in a room full of guns because she didn't know how to use any of them summed up the frustration with how completely inept and unprepared these people are to be surviving this far into the ZA better than another half dozen episodes of Rick rolling around bloody in the street ever could have.

Edited October 19, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[candall]

The episode played twice more and got mixed up in my dreams with Chewbacca cries from Comic Book Men as I dozed on the couch, but I still noted a couple of finer points:

 

1.  Pretty funny installing The Big Lock inside the closet door, right below the little louver slats you could break through with one good breathy puff.

     1a.  But for the first time in the history of television a kid stayed put after he was told not to come out.  YAY!

 

2.  Carl's horrible hair is seriously layered for a non-cut.  Extensions?

 

3.  Morgan looked ridiculous insisting to Carol that he was dealing just fine with machete guy from his first wolf encounter, considering his final two salvos had been "Leave." and "Please."

 

4.  I really, really wanted Carol to pour one out for the smoker lady and light that menthol.

[morgankobi]

Morgan reminded me of Batman with his no-kill rule. And part of that audience is also unhappy that Batman does this because of course the villains keep turning up again to hurt more people.

 

Some men (or wolves) just want to watch the world burn.

 

But at least jail/Arkham Asylum exists as a place for those baddies. There isn't a secure enough place, nor even the resources to spare, to lock-up people this dangerous in ASZ.

 

 

However, unlike the conclusion of the two previously mentioned arcs, here's to hoping Morgan is still alive and sticking after his personal arc is finished.

 

Nice.

[The Mighty Peanut]

That Enid is a fool. Carl is really turning into husband material. He kills the wolf, protects Judith and get the casserole out on time. Looks like next week they may have to brown bag it and take it to go.

I'd love to see that on an online dating profile. "SWM, protects babies, cooks, likes pudding, occasionally goes Full Shane." Though, at this point I doubt Shane could even get up to Half Carol.

Edited October 19, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[ghoulina]

About that tortoise people are so upset about: would it help if I pointed out that it would not have lasted long anyway?

 

I love animals more than anything, but I'd have to kill and eat that damn tortoise too. She was a little girl, alone in the woods. She had to do what she had to do, if she didn't eat, she'd die. I would never eat a turtle in today's world, but in a ZA, hell yes! 

 

 

 

I know Carol was the superstar badass of the episode, but I want to give props to Carl. He's a teenager, was in the middle of a love triangle and still managed to be one of the best fighters in town.

 

You are so right. Carl has become a certifiable badass, in his own right. He will do anything to protect his little sister and I love him for it.

 

As for Morgan, I think not wanting to kill people is admirable but when someone is slaughtering your town, you should fight back. If Morgan isn't willing to kill people, he won't make it.

 

Also, if he would have just killed those 2 Wolves he encountered in the woods, there's a chance some lives may have been saved in ASZ. With fewer numbers, CDB-ASZ may have been able to get the upper hand quicker. He doesn't want to kill, but by sparing homicidal maniacs, he's in essence killing HIS people. 

 

 

 

 

 

The human race is on the verge of extinction. Morgan realizes how precious each living person now is. He's not a coward, he's not a punk, he's the only character with a long term perspective on what it means to survive the apocalypse -- and it does not involve the few remaining living people wiping each other out.

 

The Wolves are not people worth saving, IMO. They're too far gone. Wolves are gonna wolf. What are the others to do? Just let them? I'd rather take out that motley crew, even if it hurts the world's overall population, so we'd still have some GOOD numbers left. 

 

 

 

I forgot my other favourite thing: a successful death by scissors. The writers are just trolling the Beth fans now, right?

 

Ha! I didn't even think of that. But yes, Jessie totally showed Beth how you finish the job. 

 

 

 

I wonder if the show is going to try something with Eugene and the new doctor.

 

I hope so. I think they'd be really cute. And I'm generally opposed to shipping....

Edited October 19, 2015 by ghoulina

[Ottis]

I FF'd through a lot of that episode, mostly the creeping around and the obvious fighting/stabbiness. Because ... other than proving Rick's point, why? Now we have yet another group who wants to kill humans for their own twisted reasons. Great. 

 

What's worse, we still have hundreds of walkers coming. So this show is treading water for a while. 

 

Don't get me wrong. TWD is done well, and this ep had great moments (including the first surprise attack). But I feel like we've seen this all before.

[ghoulina]

Jessie might be going down this path, too. She and Carol can start a club.

 

It's interesting, and I think there might be a lot of abused wives in the apocalypse. They're already survivors. They're used to being on their toes, thinking ahead, keeping their guard up and their feelings in check. Once the abusive man is gone, they can really come into their own. 

 

Doubt it has anything to do with trying to prop up another character. It’s not like Carol would have looked less badass if Morgan had been more kill-happy. There was enough room in that town for the both of them to be badasses.

Anyway, I agree that this is probably setting up some kind of longer story arc for Morgan. I’m gonna wait and see, it could be good.

 

Agree with your whole post. I don't know if this Morgan is the be-all-end-all. I think there might be more to this journey for him. And I certainly don't see Carol as some untouchable favorite. She's gone through her hard-to-believe arc as well. That whole Karvid thing still makes me mad, and a lot of people were hating her for it. Just as some think Morgan's pendulum may have swung too far to the peaceful side, a lot were saying Carol swung too far to the callous side. I'd actually like to see more of those two together; maybe they could help each other find a balance. 

 

I loved that Carol sized the Wolves up so quickly, realized that they didn't have guns, and also realized how important it was to protect the armory. And disguised herself so well so fast. Like Walter White from Breaking Bad, I am fascinated with characters who make their way so effectively in violent situations by using their heads instead of relying more on physicality.

 

Yup. That's why I love Carol. I find her to be the most relatable woman, hell - person, on this show. She's a small, "older" woman. She's not a huge physical threat, but she's quick on her feet and able to adapt to what the situation needs at a moment's notice. One thing I enjoy about this show is that there truly is something for everyone. I could never hope to be a Michonne in the ZA, but I might be able to be a Carol. 

 

Can someone remind me what the significance of the "A" written on the bannister outside of Carole's house is?  All I can recall is the A on the train car at Terminus.

 

I think that was from Sam. He was going around giving everyone "A" stamps last season, ostensibly for Alexandria. 

[peach]

I think Rick wasn't in Slabtown and maybe one Governor-centric episode plus The Grove and maybe one other post prison-preTerminus. And Daryl and Glenn wouldn't have been in those except maybe one of the preTerminus ones when CDB was split into subgroups.

 

Rick was barely in season 4 at all.

[pasdetrois]

What a great episode. Carol kicking ass in her little flowery twinset. Merit Weaver - one of my favorite "not-well-known" actors; hope she sticks around. I want to know more of Morgan's story.

 

When Carol first put the W on her forehead, my heart did a little lurch because I thought she was somehow a secret wolf spy. Especially when she and Morgan had the terse little exchange that made me think they were in on it together. So glad I was wrong.

 

I think the truck holds walkers. There is a preview shot of a big group of walkers that are all blue/gray in color - maybe they get kept in the truck too long and are uniformly overripe.

Edited October 19, 2015 by pasdetrois