Tim Gunn: Your Fabulous Gay Uncle

[GaT]

Yes, he kept trying to defend his indefensible actions, but nobody was buying it for the very simple reason that all that supposed bad behavior of Natalia's was never on the show. 

 

This is what Gunn said on his FB after he started getting backlash:


There was actually a designer who would refuse to stop working after time was called multiple times and she still didn't get the vitriol that was unleashed on Natalia. "I have a great deal of affection for her! […] She was soul-sucking." did not help his case.

Exactly , they showed everything Isabelle did, including not stopping when time was called, yet we didn't see a single thing like that from Natalia. If she was so bad, we should have seen it. Since we didn't see a single instance of it, everyone called BS.

[cattykit]

Wasn't he a producer, too?  So any negative cuts would have to have been approved by him.  If Natalia hadn't picked out her fabric when time was called, don't the rules say that you do without?  Make the outfit out of muslin, and then legitimately be aufed.   If someone isn't following the rules, then enforce the rules.  Don't get all passive-aggressive and gang up with the cool kids to force her out.

 

 

She constantly sought affirmation for her work from the other designers, too, thereby distracting them and taking up more of their time.

I'm sorry, he must be talking about his pet Helen from PR season 12.  Queen of the no-talent, entitled mean girls.  Good practice for his behavior on UTG.

 

After UTG, I just felt like everything he said on S13, E01 was forced.  Nothing felt sincere.  Words that used to mean something are now flowing through an unclean, nasty filter.

[KimberStormer]

Since the advice has been overwhelmingly in favor of NOT watching UTG, can you expound just a little on what constituted the bullying on Tim's part during that show? This is disappointing information, but I feel I must know more.

 

Here's a few clips that can sort of show Mondo (and Anya) being incredibly obnoxious and Tim sitting back and letting it happen:

 

Mondo & Anya are upset Natalia is still around and argue with Nick about it

Then they argue with the judges about it

The next episode Asha and Natalia are teamed up and Natalia gets crap from her the whole time

Mondo hassles Natalia for "making excuses" because of this

Tim (who was there at Mood and at the judges' panel where Mondo bitched about Natalia) just sits there because Natalia is "soul-sucking" I guess and says Mondo was "very respectful", Nick is a boor who just cares about winning, and Natalia's garments are "atrocious"

Natalia being so soul-sucking, you can really see why everyone hates her

 

I think Tim was more anti-Nick than anti-Natalia, for what it's worth.  Look how happy he is for the winners!  (I think it's funny too how defensive he is about it not being rigged.  Alexander got under his skin.)

Edited July 26, 2014 by KimberStormer

[bref]

Thank you, Kimber and all who responded. I am dumbfounded. Talk about feet of clay.

[fivestone]

I've been off the Tim Is Perfect train since season 4 at least, but I feel like it's just getting worse and I don't understand why.  It's interesting how as my fondness and then my respect for Tim has gone down, the opposite process has happened for Heidi.  It didn't take long before I was sick of Kors and Nina and Heidi became the only voice I really respected on the judging panel until the arrival of Zac Posen.  I don't always or even usually agree with her, but I feel like I know her opinion is sincere.

 

Like you, my admiration for Heidi has grown. She's not flawless, either, but she seems to have discovered and become confident in her strengths as a judge, which I like. Nina and Michael have their biases, which I've found a bit tiresome. Zac Posen has been a positive addition to the show.

 

So much this. I started losing respect for Tim after the last season of PR, the way he added to the pile-om on Alexandria, and then Under the Gunn just made me lose just about all respect. Meanwhile, seasons ago, I wasn't crazy about Heidi, but over time I've really come to like and respect her. If it were just Under the Gunn, that would be one thing, but between his behaviour on other seasons of PR and his outbursts on social media, I've had enough.

 

One of the things that angered me the most about Under the Gunn was during a challenge where Natalia was teamed up with Asha (Tim's pet that he wanted to win), Asha steamrolled over Natalia and wouldn't allow her to make fabric selections. Then when time was called, Natalia was trying to sort out the situation with the fabric (trying to get some of her fabric in there, I think) and Mondo came over and said that Natalia needed to quit making excuses as to why she didn't have the fabric she needed. But it's because Mondo's pet, Asha, spent all the time picking out her fabric choices and didn't let Natalia have a voice.

 

So that makes me nervous for this season. If the designers are in teams, and one person hogs all the time and resources at Mood, are they going to get fair treatment from Tim if they're trying to sort out something at the last second? Or is Tim going to side with whoever his favourites happen to be at the time? Based on the last couples of seasons and Under the Gunn, it's hard for me to trust that Tim would be fair.

Edited July 27, 2014 by fivestone

[Mabinogia]

Wow, Tim is pretty freaking full of himself, and an ass. What did Nick ever do to him? And wow, poor Natalia, who is a far better person than any of the rest of them in those clips. Granted, I didn't watch the full show, but there was enough in those clips to get the gist. Tim wanted anyone else to win but Nick, Tim jumped on the Natalia hate bandwagon, and I'm sorry but I don't care how slow she was, or how unfinished her garments might have been, that girl shows an integrity that the rest of them deeply lack.

 

My Tim love had been going down for quite some time. Probably around the time All-Star began and I saw Joanna Coles, whom I preferred to him right away and more so each season. I never thought I'd say this but I wouldn't miss Tim Gunn if he left the show.

[candall]

It was crazy upside-down world, for sure.

 

Natasha made a dress for the "steampunk" challenge that was awesome (and didn't win.)  It had little pulleys on the inside that would ratchet up the front of the skirt--she was no schlub at construction.

 

But she'd wind up at the bottom due to poor construction skills, while in the next episode, the judges would rave about someone's garment that was falling apart halfway down the runway, and claim,  "Well, after all, this show isn't about being able to sew, it's about VISION."

 

Finally, there was the time Anya and Mondo stood and confronted the judges--after the bottom designer was announced--calling them out on their decision because it should have been (Nick's protégé) Natasha instead.  Fabulous Uncle Tim put his chin in his hand and said, "Hmmm."

 

I don't know--maybe you should watch it after all.  None of the first 12 seasons of Project Runway are burned in my brain like UTG!

[Shannon L.]

Hi, I was just stopping in to see how everyone was with Tim now with some time between UTG and this new season of PR.  Glad to see I'm not alone.

 

From Tim's FB post: 

Finally, she was incapable of calibrating her design and execution ambitions to our timeframe.

And from candall

Natasha made a dress for the "steampunk" challenge that was awesome (and didn't win.)  It had little pulleys on the inside that would ratchet up the front of the skirt--she was no schlub at construction.

This is what prompted me out of lurking.  After watching the whole show, the only two things that I remember are how wonderful Oscar was as a person and designer and that steam punk dress.  I still can't believe she didn't win that one.  She had no problem executing her her design in the time frame that day. 

 

Also, wasn't she one of the contestants who came back to help for the final runway challenge and Oscar was happy to have her and help her along? 

Edited July 27, 2014 by Shannon L.

[Julia]

One of the things that angered me the most about Under the Gunn was during a challenge where Natalia was teamed up with Asha (Tim's pet that he wanted to win), Asha steamrolled over Natalia and wouldn't allow Natasha to make fabric selections. Then when time was called, Natalia was trying to sort out the situation with the fabric (trying to get some of her fabric in there, I think) and Mondo came over and said that Natalia needed to quit making excuses as to why she didn't have the fabric she needed. But it's because Mondo's pet, Asha, spent all the time picking out her fabric choices and didn't let Natalia have a voice.

 

Oh, it's worse than that, Jim. If memory serves, Tim was actually standing there when Natalia was steamrollered (by Asha, the woman Mondo was mentoring) at Mood, so when he calmly watched Mondo shriek at Natalia and refuse to let her talk he knew exactly what Mondo was trying to keep Natalia from saying. The fabrics were hideous, btw, and so were Asha's designs (I distinctly remember amusing my cousin's little girl by fashioning something very much like her eyelet dashiki for her doll out of my nonna's notion box).

 

Then at the end, when Mondo's pet was asked directly whose fault it was, she got a glittering bright smile on her face and suggested to the judges that it was all Natalia's fault (she didn't want to play the blame game, you see), and Natalia fell on her own sword (so there'd be a scrap of dignity in that hour none of us will ever get back, and they were running out of time), Tim's response was "I can see this has been hard for both of you." 

 

Asha, they told us in her bio, was an intern for the [your fawning adjective here] Georgina Chapman (aka Mrs. That Nice Mr. Weinstein Who Owns PR). I always wondered if that had something to do with their determination to reward her generally dreadful designs (you tube link) the big prize. 

 

But look, at least Jen Rade's career as a celebrity is over before it started, so something good came out of it.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Julia

[fivestone]

Oh, it's worse than that, Jim. If memory serves, Tim was actually standing there when Natalia was steamrollered (by Asha, the woman Mondo was mentoring) at Mood, so when he calmly watched Mondo shriek at Natalia and refuse to let her talk he knew exactly what Mondo was trying to keep Natalia from saying. The fabrics were hideous, btw, and so were Asha's designs (I distinctly remember amusing my cousin's little girl by fashioning something very much like her eyelet dashiki for her doll out of my nonna's notion box).

 

Then at the end, when Mondo's pet was asked directly whose fault it was, she got a glittering bright smile on her face and suggested to the judges that it was all Natalia's fault (she didn't want to play the blame game, you see), and Natalia fell on her own sword (so there'd be a scrap of dignity in that hour none of us will ever get back, and they were running out of time), Tim's response was "I can see this has been hard for both of you." 

 

Asha, they told us in her bio, was an intern for the [your fawning adjective here] Georgina Chapman (aka Mrs. That Nice Mr. Weinstein Who Owns PR). I always wondered if that had something to do with their determination to reward her generally dreadful designs (you tube link) the big prize. 

 

But look, at least Jen Rade's career as a celebrity is over before it started, so something good came out of it.

 

Thanks for adding the details! I couldn't remember the specifics anymore!

 

To her credit, after some of these episodes started airing, Jen Rade was saying how ass-y and bullying some of these designers were acting, and how she wishes that the judges had been privvy to all this behind-the-scenes madness, because it definitely would have changed how they viewed the designers and potentially some of the decisions they made. At least she didn't tow the company line and claim that Natalia was soul-sucking and worthy of the treatment she received.

[PepperMonkey]

My "Tim on a Pedestal" started to crack with the Season 12 reunion special, where I honestly thought Tim almost encouraged the pile on of Alexandria. I was also constantly mystified by his apparent love of Helen. I think I would have survived all of that but then we had Under the Gunn. Because most of this has been hashed out and I am in fervent agreement about not feeling the same way about him ever again, I will simply say: Did anyone else see the blurb in Marie Claire for Oscar and Nick? Tim's only comment in support of the winner of HIS show was: I've never seen anyone who can SEW so well. Apparently, and sadly, he can't even be gracious after the fact.

[RealityGal]

My "Tim on a Pedestal" started to crack with the Season 12 reunion special, where I honestly thought Tim almost encouraged the pile on of Alexandria. I was also constantly mystified by his apparent love of Helen. I think I would have survived all of that but then we had Under the Gunn. Because most of this has been hashed out and I am in fervent agreement about not feeling the same way about him ever again, I will simply say: Did anyone else see the blurb in Marie Claire for Oscar and Nick? Tim's only comment in support of the winner of HIS show was: I've never seen anyone who can SEW so well. Apparently, and sadly, he can't even be gracious after the fact.

 

I just don't get it.  It seems like he is going to try to redeem himself this season by cutting off the bullying of Shandaya, but it all seems contrived and fake when he can't even admit that he let things go to far with the bullying on UTG, or when he fails to even admit bullying happened.  It would be so much better if he just admitted he made a few missteps and went from there.  

 

ETA: its been said before, but bears repeating, Natalia was totally robbed of the win for the steampunk challenge, even now I remember how cool that dress was.  Shan's outfit was basically leather pants with cutouts if I remember correctly.  And Jen Rade can go suck an egg, because she knows that Natalia's dress was the best in that episode.

 

ETAA: And frankly all of the judges can go suck an egg because they failed to "judge" anything half the time.  I think Rachel Roy got away before the ship totally sank, but all of the judges sucked monkey balls IMO.

Edited July 30, 2014 by RealityGal

[candall]

Did anyone else see the blurb in Marie Claire for Oscar and Nick? Tim's only comment in support of the winner of HIS show was: I've never seen anyone who can SEW so well. Apparently, and sadly, he can't even be gracious after the fact.

Didn't see it, so thanks. Woof.

I can understand that Tim Gunn would be bitter. He was many viewers' favorite part of PR, netting him his own eponymous show, complete with that little public relations boost about staying loyal to Heidi when the producers didn't want to accommodate her scheduling conflicts. He was involved with producing, mentoring, judging, working all the levers.

Then, about 15 minutes into the first episode, "hashtag monkeyballs" zoomed to new heights in the public lexicon.

It wouldn't have been impossible to patch up his reputation, though. Look at this board--people who didn't slog through every undignified moment of UTG can barely imagine Tim Gunn being THAT inappropriate.  People still want to invite him for cocktails.  There were a couple of instances where his friendly face slipped a little on PR, wtf was up with that?

Memories fade, if he'd let them, but he just can't stop hemorrhaging the bitter.  Oscar has a real talent-- for sewing.  Really, Tim?  He could have tut-tutted about editorial growing pains with a new vehicle and said that Natasha's great, Nick's just a chip off the old mentoring block and Oscar Lopez has a fabulous future ahead of him as a top designer. 

 

But. . .no.

 

[RealityGal]

Didn't see it, so thanks. Woof.

I can understand that Tim Gunn would be bitter. He was many viewers' favorite part of PR, netting him his own eponymous show, complete with that little public relations boost about staying loyal to Heidi when the producers didn't want to accommodate her scheduling conflicts. He was involved with producing, mentoring, judging, working all the levers.

Then, about 15 minutes into the first episode, "hashtag monkeyballs" zoomed to new heights in the public lexicon.

It wouldn't have been impossible to patch up his reputation, though. Look at this board--people who didn't slog through every undignified moment of UTG can barely imagine Tim Gunn being THAT inappropriate.  People still want to invite him for cocktails.  There were a couple of instances where his friendly face slipped a little on PR, wtf was up with that?

Memories fade, if he'd let them, but he just can't stop hemorrhaging the bitter.  Oscar has a real talent-- for sewing.  Really, Tim?  He could have tut-tutted about editorial growing pains with a new vehicle and said that Natasha's great, Nick's just a chip off the old mentoring block and Oscar Lopez has a fabulous future ahead of him as a top designer. 

 

But. . .no.

 

 

Or he could just say he made a mistake!  I want to forgive him and I want to like him.  And everyone makes mistakes.  People get caught up in meanness and then recognize the error of their ways.  Just say you're sorry, be gracious and move on.  If he just apologized, his (or what appears to be his) stopping the bullying of Shandaya would seem so much more genuine, but at this point, it just seems fake because he is perfectly fine with bullying.

[leighdear]

Tim's behavior tonight, and from here on out, is going to very telling. I'm going to try VERY hard to view his actions and interactions impartially and unemotionally.  It's going to be tough, but I want to see if I can do it. 

 

I want to feel the love again.  I don't want to watch this show and Tim through a filter of hate and dismay anymore.

Edited July 31, 2014 by leighdear

[candall]

.  Just say you're sorry, be gracious and move on.  

An apology is always best.  But people like him and want to give him the benefit of the doubt, so how about "Just say you're sorry OR be gracious and move on"?   He keeps picking the only really bad choice, which is to continue being a schmuck about the whole thing. 

 

There's been no Neosporin at all and the upcoming anti-bullying tirade is yet another bad choice.

 

Does the man not have a manager or a handler or a p.r. firm to reel him in?

Edited July 31, 2014 by candall

[magpye29]

All Tim has to do is say "Hey, guys--had lots of different hats on, major stress. I was kind of a pill.  So sorry!"  I would forgive him.  But I'm anxious about him coming out with an anti-bullying message with these contestants because I no longer trust him not to BE the bully.  An acknowledgment of his shabby behavior toward Natalia, Nick, and Oscar would pretty much clear the slate for me, but if he hasn't come to that by now, he just doesn't get it and I doubt he ever will.

[candall]

There's a lot of feedback from Sandhya's little chat with Tim in Episode 02--which I firmly believe production encouraged to lay the groundwork for Tim's big anti-bully redemption speech, coming soon to a theatre near you.

 

There's a discussion about "the tyranny of the weak" and someone called her a "Professional Victim."  If the producers did give her a little nudge to get the ball rolling for their Campaign To Restore Tim, they didn't do her any favors.

 

Collateral damage.

[magpye29]

Well., I hope Tim's redemption is sincere, but I feel a wave of heavy-handed producer manipulation coming on.  We shall see.

[stafford]

Thank you KimberStormer for the YouTube clips of the outrageous behavior of Mondo, Anya and Tim on UTG (wow, that had to be a lot of work to gather that all up). I did watch UTG but only intermittently and I remember developing a sincere dislike for Mondo, who I thought let his "success"...if you can call it that...go to his head (or crazy fedora and/or head gear). I didn't pay a lot of attention to the show but I remember watching the final and cheering when Carlos and Nick won the season. I recall how flat Tim's reaction was to the win for Carlos and now I can see why.

How utterly stupid for Tim, as one of the producers, to allow such an unfavorable edit. If he had more "dirt" and or evidence of Natalia's soul sucking behavior they certainly didn't show it and she seemed pretty nice. I think Tim, Mondo and Anya thought Nick was a terrible mentor and offered too much advice to his designers but frankly, I see Tim nixing materials and designs all the time on PR.

Does anyone know if UTG has been renewed for a second season? I know I stopped watching it except for the final because it reminded me of immature high school behavior and I just hated Mondo and his inflated ego (and to think I got teary eyed when he came out on PR). I guess I should have paid more attention to Tim's outrageous behavior too but forearmed is forewarned for this season on PR.

Clearly Tim has his favorites. I, for one, never understood Tim assigning equal blame to both Ken and Alexander (Ken blocked the apartment door from Alexander and Alexander blew up and knocked over the iron). At that point I thought Tim was trying too hard to be even handed but in reality I thought he was too sympathetic to Ken--who should have been sent home much earlier for his outrageous behavior. And to think they thought Ken would be a good choice to come back this season. I do think Tim is tone deaf and not the sharpest pair of scissors in the drawer.

I'm not sure Tim can redeem himself this season. I'm willing to give him a chance but he has to stop looking for easy answers to difficult situations. Just taking Sandhya's word that she is being picked on (without getting the full story of her behavior from the other team members or directors and the camera crew) is almost as bad as ignoring Mondo's bullying of Natalia. Tim grow a pair, okay? Please start demanding true teamwork from all the designers before offering sympathy and excuses for designers that are intractable.

Edited August 3, 2014 by stafford

[ThatsDarling]

I want to forgive him and I want to like him.  And everyone makes mistakes.  People get caught up in meanness and then recognize the error of their ways.  Just say you're sorry, be gracious and move on.

I think that Tim's ego is way too big for him to ever acknowledge that he made a mistake. He brands himself as a keeper of decorum, good taste, and integrity and gets very angry when anyone questions that persona (like when Alexander insinuated he was associated with a rigged competition). 

 

I didn't watch Under the Gunn, but I remember Tim displaying questionable behavior long before then. In one of the early seasons, he said one of the models was "shaped like a marshmallow," and he's been very vocal about disliking certain contestants. He went on and on about his antipathy to S4's Victorya and S7's Emilio's in the press, which struck me as rather unprofessional coming from a mentor. 

 

I want to see him replaced on Project Runway, but I know that's not going to happen. Instead, I would like for his influence to be reduced, which would hopefully humble him a bit.

[RealityCowgirl]

It was crazy upside-down world, for sure.

 

Natasha made a dress for the "steampunk" challenge that was awesome (and didn't win.)  It had little pulleys on the inside that would ratchet up the front of the skirt--she was no schlub at construction.

 

But she'd wind up at the bottom due to poor construction skills, while in the next episode, the judges would rave about someone's garment that was falling apart halfway down the runway, and claim,  "Well, after all, this show isn't about being able to sew, it's about VISION."

 

That added to my outrage. That was one of the weakest, most pathetic stables of "designers" the franchise has ever floated. She was far from the weakest. Far from it.

[backgroundnoise]

Finally, there was the time Anya and Mondo stood and confronted the judges--after the bottom designer was announced--calling them out on their decision because it should have been (Nick's protégé) Natasha instead.  Fabulous Uncle Tim put his chin in his hand and said, "Hmmm."

 

And to make it worse, Natalia came in second in that same challenge, right after coming in second for the steam punk challenge.  And to make it really worse, Asha's entry (in the day to night look for this challenge) was HIDEOUS!

Tim did nothing.  Sad.

[BradandJanet]

I think Tim was an excellent teacher and mentor to fashion design students at Parsons. However, the complexity and manipulation of reality on this TV program may be more than he can handle. I liked what Tim Gunn was; I don't know if I like what he has become. 

Edited August 6, 2014 by BradandJanet

[LBFilmBuff]

I was there (watching Under The Gunn) and I agree with what everyone has said.  It was very painful to watch because everything the show was trying to tell us about what was happening was completely counter to what was being show on screen.  

 

It wasn't hard at all for Anya and Mondo to fall off their very short pedestals.  Anya had always seemed both conceited and untalented.  She might have a good eye, but that makes her a good stylist, not a good designer.  Mondo WAS and IS a good designer, but his entitled personality and certainty in his own greatness made him completely oblivious to anyone else's opinions or feelings.  I was not particularly surprised to see them turn so ugly so quickly.

 

Asha was new to me, and she quickly became insufferably arrogant and only marginally talented.  The less said about her the better.

 

Tim on the other hand DID have a long way to fall off his pedestal, and so the crash at the bottom was particularly ugly to behold.  His seething disdain of the perfectly lovely Oscar and his inability to cut through all the B.S. around him concerning Asha and Natalia really hurt his appeal.  He made it far worse by not acknowledging what happened.  Then OR now!  I will never be able to look at him the same way on Project Runway.   The thing that is sad is the people who watched this awful show were the biggest fans of Tim Gunn and/or Project Runway.  That's why it hurt.  We were the true believers!

 

So, I try as best I can to concentrate on the good things about that show which surprised me.  First off, Lifetime of all things gets a lot of credit in my opinion.  They allowed the viewers to vent about Tim and the show without ever shutting us down.  Sure, Tim stepped in to the fray (and really stepped in it), but Lifetime didn't censor and that is really to their credit.

 

Second, Oscar became a hero to the viewer as did Natalia, and to a lesser degree Nick.  Oscar and Natalia rose above all the crap swirling around them and didn't badmouth others (unlike Asha, Anya, Mondo & Tim), and they turned out some pretty good garments made out of the crap they were given.  Both of them deserved far better including a major apology from the powers that be.

 

Third, Heidi and Neil Patrick Harris swooped in at the final hour and saw right through all of Tim's B.S. and righted the wrongs on the show by crowning the correct winner.  I was thrilled and amazed to see Heidi call Tim and the judges on their crap and do what was right.  Right there in front of our eyes.

[Julia]

First off, Lifetime of all things gets a lot of credit in my opinion.  They allowed the viewers to vent about Tim and the show without ever shutting us down.  Sure, Tim stepped in to the fray (and really stepped in it), but Lifetime didn't censor and that is really to their credit.

 

On the one hand, yes: on the other hand, remember they were forced to air UTG when Tim refused to do the show they wanted him to do. It's possible he's not their favorite right now.

[magpye29]

Sure, Tim stepped in to the fray (and really stepped in it)

 

To sort of quote CariDee English (ANTM), we all smelled what Tim stepped in.

[snowblossom2]

Wow, Tim is pretty freaking full of himself, and an ass. What did Nick ever do to him? And wow, poor Natalia, who is a far better person than any of the rest of them in those clips. Granted, I didn't watch the full show, but there was enough in those clips to get the gist. Tim wanted anyone else to win but Nick, Tim jumped on the Natalia hate bandwagon, and I'm sorry but I don't care how slow she was, or how unfinished her garments might have been, that girl shows an integrity that the rest of them deeply lack.

My Tim love had been going down for quite some time. Probably around the time All-Star began and I saw Joanna Coles, whom I preferred to him right away and more so each season. I never thought I'd say this but I wouldn't miss Tim Gunn if he left the show.

Plus there was someone else who Tim had to actually stand by her in order to get her off the sewing machine (I forget her name) - talk about an exhausting person! And he treated her better than Natalia!

I didn't watch Under the Gunn, but I remember Tim displaying questionable behavior long before then. In one of the early seasons, he said one of the models was "shaped like a marshmallow," and he's been very vocal about disliking certain contestants. He went on and on about his antipathy to S4's Victorya and S7's Emilio's in the press, which struck me as rather unprofessional coming from a mentor.

I think the cracks started in Jeffery's season. There was an older gentleman (with glasses) that Tim harped on, on tv and in his blogs. I admit, at the time, I cheered on Tim's "honesty" bc that guy was so annoying but in hindsight it really was very unprofessional.

[RealityGal]

 

Tim on the other hand DID have a long way to fall off his pedestal, and so the crash at the bottom was particularly ugly to behold.  His seething disdain of the perfectly lovely Oscar and his inability to cut through all the B.S. around him concerning Asha and Natalia really hurt his appeal.  He made it far worse by not acknowledging what happened.  Then OR now!  I will never be able to look at him the same way on Project Runway.   The thing that is sad is the people who watched this awful show were the biggest fans of Tim Gunn and/or Project Runway.  That's why it hurt.  We were the true believers!

 

 

Third, Heidi and Neil Patrick Harris swooped in at the final hour and saw right through all of Tim's B.S. and righted the wrongs on the show by crowning the correct winner.  I was thrilled and amazed to see Heidi call Tim and the judges on their crap and do what was right.  Right there in front of our eyes.

 

I agree with your entire post, but mostly the first point about Tim having the farthest to fall and how much it really stank to watch it.  And I'm pretty loyal to people overall, so if there is someone I like I will miss a lot of the cracks that others picked up on in other seasons.  I didn't like his blatant favortism towards Helen and Michelle in their season, because I didn't like either of them...at all.  But so much of the other parts of Tim made up for that.  But UTG was just nothing but bad.  And its hard because for me, it takes a lot to dislike someone I liked, but once I dislike someone it takes a whole bunch for me to like them again.  And because of Tim's refusal to accept any responsibility for his behavior on UTG I just feel like everything he does now isn't genuine, and he is just desperately trying to get back his image.

 

I also think that Asha was going to win if it weren't for Heidi.  I know Heidi is the executive producer for Project Runway, which I think gives her more pull, and I wonder if she wasn't EP for Under the Gunn as well, which would have given her more pull than the absolutely useless judges. (Gee Mondo and Anya, why don't you choose a winner?, Gee Anya, who do you want sent home?)

[Julia]

Plus there was someone else who Tim had to actually stand by her in order to get her off the sewing machine (I forget her name) - talk about an exhausting person! And he treated her better than Natalia!

 

Isabelle (which is hard for me, because her damn hat and knicker suit made me think of her as Madeline).

 

That wasn't even the worst of Tim's Isabelle hijinks.

 

Anya gave one of her designers a style critique (very B-list NIna) about not being too "junior" (with his unconventional vampire outfit) which, according to the judges, landed him on the bottom. That week, the judges offered Anya the opportunity to choose who went home after the rest of the contestants had left the runway, and the poor bastard went home.

 

The next week, Isabelle had to be physically removed from her machine by Tim (sputtering all the way about how unacceptable it all was) while the rest of the designers stood out in the hall waiting for the runway because she wouldn't stop sewing for the second week in a row. Then when she landed on the bottom, Tim invited Isabelle on the runway to unload on Nick as a mentor in front of God and everybody. Then he asked Nick (who was not offered the opportunity to make the decision) if Isabelle should go home. 

 

Mondo and Anya put on a performance about how incredibly appalled they were at Nick throwing Isabelle under the bus, and the poorly-edited theme of the next episode was "Nick's designers are all in turmoil after he brutally threw Isabelle under the bus." Except for how his team showed the only collection that didn't suck and they won, and Anya had two designers on the bottom.

 

They decided not to eliminate anyone.

[snowblossom2]

Isabelle (which is hard for me, because her damn hat and knicker suit made me think of her as Madeline).

 

That wasn't even the worst of Tim's Isabelle hijinks.

 

Anya gave one of her designers a style critique (very B-list NIna) about not being too "junior" (with his unconventional vampire outfit) which, according to the judges, landed him on the bottom. That week, the judges offered Anya the opportunity to choose who went home after the rest of the contestants had left the runway, and the poor bastard went home.

 

The next week, Isabelle had to be physically removed from her machine by Tim (sputtering all the way about how unacceptable it all was) while the rest of the designers stood out in the hall waiting for the runway because she wouldn't stop sewing for the second week in a row. Then when she landed on the bottom, Tim invited Isabelle on the runway to unload on Nick as a mentor in front of God and everybody. Then he asked Nick (who was not offered the opportunity to make the decision) if Isabelle should go home. 

 

Mondo and Anya put on a performance about how incredibly appalled they were at Nick throwing Isabelle under the bus, and the poorly-edited theme of the next episode was "Nick's designers are all in turmoil after he brutally threw Isabelle under the bus." Except for how his team showed the only collection that didn't suck and they won, and Anya had two designers on the bottom.

 

They decided not to eliminate anyone.

Ugh. I forgot about Tim inviting Isabelle to unload about nick...

[KimberStormer]

Oh man.  Yeah, Tim, you never talk trash about anyone.  I just don't get what his thing with Nick is.

 

I actually sort of wonder if they really did edit these to make Tim look bad.  Here he is berating Oscar about not being a team player at Mood.  Who does that sound like?  And it's all Nick's fault, Anya and Mondo are angels.

Edited August 7, 2014 by KimberStormer

[RealityGal]

Oh man.  Yeah, Tim, you never talk trash about anyone.  I just don't get what his thing with Nick is.

 

I actually sort of wonder if they really did edit these to make Tim look bad.  Here he is berating Oscar about not being a team player at Mood.  Who does that sound like?  And it's all Nick's fault, Anya and Mondo are angels.

I don't know either, I personally really like Nick.  He seemed like a good mentor to me.  Anya and Mondo didn't seem to offer much in the way of solid advice, and that...to me, smells like a situation set up for someone to be able to "wash their hands" of the losing team.  Anya's advice was just so broad..."make it look better" in an angry voice is not really good mentoring.

 

I don't know, maybe Tim feels that someone like Nick is gunning for his spot?  In a few more years.

 

Yuck, why did I watch that clip, that set me back on my journey to try to love Tim again.

[snowblossom2]

The guy with glasses was Vincent and I don't know; he was extremely creepy, gross and inappropriate. He was the designer who told Laura Bennett to go "shove some Harry Winstons up your nose" when she stood up for Allison Kelly, who was eliminated (for the marshmellow girl outfit) instead of Vincent, whose model could not walk down the runway in her "dress." Vincent also would constantly talk about dresses turning him on and even worse, "getting me off" (in talking heads, to other designers and during Tim's walkthroughs). Then there was Vincent's over the top, totally pervy conduct around Catherine Malandrino, which can only be summed up with a screenshot of her reaction to his comments.

I don't mean to stand up for the way Tim has been lately; but one of the worst parts of Season Three was the misogynistic behavior by several male designers, most notably Vincent and Jeffrey. I'm willing to give Tim a pass on his demeanor back then, because there was some gross, unprofessional conduct among the designers that I would have reacted poorly to as well.

A definite point in Tim's favor that season, for me, is how well Mychael flourished during the competition with Tim's guidance. When Mychael was on his own designing and preparing his finale collection, without that guiding hand, is when he flopped terribly.

Good points though I think Tim could have addressed those things in a more professional manner...

I do have to say I did like how Tim handled the Laura accusing Jeffery debacle

[Madding crowd]

I loved Tim until he started acting unprofessional to one of my favorite PR designers Emilio Sosa. Tim hated everything Emilio did, while the judges loved it. Emilio rightfully told Tim he wanted to stick with his own vision and it led to him coming in second in the finale. Tim made many odd comments about Emilio including saying he was afraid to visit Emilio in his Harlem Apartment. Up until then I would have loved having lunch with Tim.

 

After that I read Tim's first book where he took lots of catty potshots at various people. It seems he cannot stand people who aren't perfectly thin, wealthy and have impeccable manners. Then I started noticing his endless anti-woman comments like calling out stick thin models as being difficult to fit because they had breasts.

 

The last episode I believe is where he started saying things like "She needs a gift certificate for a Brazilian" in those pants, with this horrified expression. I think he needs to be a little more professional. So, yeah my opinion has changed which is sad.

[Zahdii]

Is it possible that Tim has a medical condition that is affecting his personality?  It seems to strange to be perceived one way for so long and the to have another personality altogether start creeping out.

[LBFilmBuff]

Tim's comment last night about how Angela's design needed to be euthanized was a hint of the UTG Tim Gunn.  He is supposed to be a mentor but here he is judging away in a very strong, tacky way.

 

I thought it was VERY interesting that none of the other people in the room reacted favorably to his comment, or at least it wasn't shown.  Hmm, maybe those people are more familiar with this side of Tim than the viewer is?

[MrsClaus]

Last night's show really didn't help change my opinion of Tim. When he very loudly and forcefully said Angela's dress should be euthanized I really thought his true nature was showing through.

[TudorQueen]

Is it possible that Tim has a medical condition that is affecting his personality?  It seems to strange to be perceived one way for so long and the to have another personality altogether start creeping out.

 

I hadn't thought of that, but I wonder now if you might be right. It really is such a drastic personality change, not just from the first several seasons of this show, but from his earlier show, "Tim Gunn's Guide to Style" where he was incredibly kind and supportive of his 'clients' while encouraging them to make clothing choices that would enhance their looks. He's also been a fount of encouragement when he's done the 'makeover' week segments of "Biggest Loser".

[heckkitty]

Maybe he's doing too much and is stressed out?  That can really affect someone's personality, in my experience.

[Lurifax]

TWoP lurker for a decade, finally summoned up the courage to register ...

Season 2, when Nick lost his model to Zulema, Tim commiserated by saying that Nick's new model was an awful walker with "gumby legs". Didn't he realise the poor girl would hear that comment? And she didn't smack him at the reunion

[discoprincess]

If he just apologized, his (or what appears to be his) stopping the bullying of Shandaya would seem so much more genuine, but at this point, it just seems fake because he is perfectly fine with bullying.

 

 

I've long loved Tim, but reading this thread makes me really glad I skipped Under the Gunn. I agree with those who noticed he didn't do much to impede the anti-Alexandra pile-on. His support of and love for nasty Helen was just mind-boggling.

 

This thread has opened my eyes to Tim, and not in a good way. I never got into Under The Gunn, so I didn't witness him aiding and abetting meanness from Anya and Mondo that has been mentioned. It's hard to believe that this is the same man who had called out Team Luxe (and especially Gretchen) for "bully"ing and throwing Michael Costello under the bus during the the judging of that challenge. 

 

 

 

I loved Tim until he started acting unprofessional to one of my favorite PR designers Emilio Sosa. Tim hated everything Emilio did, while the judges loved it. Emilio rightfully told Tim he wanted to stick with his own vision and it led to him coming in second in the finale. Tim made many odd comments about Emilio including saying he was afraid to visit Emilio in his Harlem Apartment. Up until then I would have loved having lunch with Tim.

 

After that I read Tim's first book where he took lots of catty potshots at various people. It seems he cannot stand people who aren't perfectly thin, wealthy and have impeccable manners. Then I started noticing his endless anti-woman comments like calling out stick thin models as being difficult to fit because they had breasts.

I can see Tim not being able to stand people without impeccable manners (as he is probably seen and probably sees himself as an exemplar of proper decorum). However, as a NYC native (and resident), I have to give Tim a massive side-eye if he had a problem going to Harlem. The Harlem of circa 2009 (which was when Emilio was on the show, no?) isn't the same as Harlem was two decades prior. Tim has lived in NYC for decades; he should have known better (than to go on record as saying something that could have been construed as ignorant at the very least and the r-word at worst).

 

What was Tim's beef with Emilio anyway? I know Tim didn't care much for Kenley or Gretchen, but I understood that better. 

[Julia]

I think Emilio was already successful enough in his own line of work that he wasn't as deferential to Tim's opinion as Tim would have preferred. 

 

I also think that's when "costume" became a bad word. Which in light of the current season is pretty funny...

[RealityGal]

TWoP lurker for a decade, finally summoned up the courage to register ...

Season 2, when Nick lost his model to Zulema, Tim commiserated by saying that Nick's new model was an awful walker with "gumby legs". Didn't he realise the poor girl would hear that comment? And she didn't smack him at the reunion

You know, I guess there were signs all along, but I guess I ignored them, or would explain them away.  But it was almost impossible to do that with Under The Gunn.  Oh man, the things my eyes can't unsee, the things my ears can't unhear!  Well, moreso my eyes, because does Mondo even own a pair of full pants?  How much longer is he going to be trying to do boyshorts?

[PrincessEnnui]

I have not liked Tim Gunn since season 3, specifically because he treated Vincent so shabbily. Vincent may be strange, but as the saying goes, he was "mostly harmless."

 

Having been on bullied from middle school on, more or less, can't even stomach thinking about it. Completely destroyed what was left of my confidence and I went from borderline depressed to full blown depression. And essentially the only way I can effectively communicate with anyone is by writing under anonymity. I actively seek jobs now specifically so I can be alone.

 

That Tim Gunn, who is a professor and mentor, in a high stress, closed off environment, would allow these designers to mistreat another and do it himself... Ugh. Good on Natasha/Natalia for not being bitter and rising above.

[RealityGal]

I have not liked Tim Gunn since season 3, specifically because he treated Vincent so shabbily. Vincent may be strange, but as the saying goes, he was "mostly harmless."

 

Having been on bullied from middle school on, more or less, can't even stomach thinking about it. Completely destroyed what was left of my confidence and I went from borderline depressed to full blown depression. And essentially the only way I can effectively communicate with anyone is by writing under anonymity. I actively seek jobs now specifically so I can be alone.

 

That Tim Gunn, who is a professor and mentor, in a high stress, closed off environment, would allow these designers to mistreat another and do it himself... Ugh. Good on Natasha/Natalia for not being bitter and rising above.

 

Listen, its none of my business, so if you want to give me a MYOB, I totally understand.  But I hope you find a way to reconnect with humanity in real time.  The computer is great, but people can be great too, and when you get older...or as I got older, I started to just like who I was.  And as your world grows you find that there are people who will like you, are like you, or like what you like.  Even though rejection still stings and hurts, it hurts a lot less and I can let things roll of my back a little better. 

 

I too like jobs where I can be alone, but thats mostly so I can indulge in frequent cat naps...just kidding!

 

But yes, UTG was awful, everytime I think about it, it puts me back at square one with my quest to try to like Tim again.  I also think its the fact that he refuses to apologize or accept any blame or responsibility for what happened.

[Oholibamah]

I just finished a 2-day marathon of Under the Gunn. I spent the entire time anxious for some shit to hit the fan and for Anya, Mondo and Tim to show themselves as the heinous, evil, irredeemable bullies they've always secretly been. But it never happened. Or I was watching edited-down episodes. Or maybe there was a reunion that wasn't available for streaming? Needless to say, I am confused.

 

Natasha was just the brunt of bullying from a group of designers who had no room to talk due to their own lack of talent.

 

This word "bullying" has become so hijacked by any circumstance of somebody not being particularly liked or treated like a queen that, IMO, it detracts from some of the truly unfortunate shit that people go through. Through my eyes, a handful of Natalia's peers thought she was weaker than some of those who had been eliminated. The show spliced in out-of-context shots of said people laughing. We got one confessional apiece from Asha and Michelle saying Natalia sucks. We also got one from Sam and Oscar saying she is creative. This is such garden-variety Project Runway "drama" that I just can't get on board for this outraged pearl-clutching on Natalia's behalf.

 

And then it got to the point where even Mondo and Arya were bullying her, or constantly talking shit about the girl.  Anytime she was given praise by the judges, it was like Mondo and Arya and these group of mean contestants were busy rolling their eyes, or just talking shit.

 

Was this taken from a story written on FanFiction.net? Nothing I saw from Mondo or "Arya" even remotely approached bullying or talking shit (which my personal definition requires more than simply pointing out a professional weakness). In the context of the show's format (which, admittedly, has problems) they have been charged with overseeing the work of a small group of designers. I see nothing wrong with them backing their own designers, or disagreeing with a decision of the judging panel. My only moral qualm with this entire storyline was Mondo questioning the judges to their face, but even then the show's format doesn't make it entirely clear whether Mondo/Anya are meant to be seen as peers of the judges or subordinate to the judges. Certainly on Project Runway Tim is seen as an equal, so I can't entirely take Mondo to task for openly questioning the panel. Although I guess it was just "like" they were busy rolling their eyes, so actual footage showing this is not necessary.

 

One girl in particular, who I think they were trying to angle for the win was especially hideous to her.

 

I was not fond of Asha's behavior during this particular episode. That said, I would not label it as particularly "hideous", especially given that Natalia has her own limitations that would make her frustrating to work with. I don't think it reflects well on Asha that she shut down given the challenge of working with a different designer's approach, but Saint Oscar had a similar initial approach with Natalia, did he not?

 

And Tim Gunn, instead of stopping any of this, fed right into it, and was constantly being mean to this girl too.  He never bothered to stop Mondo or Arya, or to ask them to talk to their designers that were being dickheads, instead he blamed the girl who was being bullied and piled on too.

 

Granted, I have not followed any of the media about the show nor any post-show interviews. However, within the show as presented to me, I saw no evidence of Tim being "constantly mean" to Natalia. He admonished her at Mood for being late. Once. She herself admitted this was due to time management issues. Asha's boarish approach to selecting fabrics likely contributed and was not fair, but Tim appeared to be focusing on Natalia over Asha because it was Natalia making excuses and attempting to keep cutting fabrics.

 

Mondo was correct: stop making excuses. You have the fabrics you have, now make it work. Was his motivation for saying this fueled by his frustration with Natalia remaining in the competition, and a desire to protect Asha from blame? It's likely.. But his approach with ALL of the designers at this stage of the competition was firm, and I don't think his criticism - that excuses are not productive - was really all that heinous and illadvised.

 

Nor do I think it's Tim's job or even Tim's right to "stop" Mondo and Anya from questioning a designer's abilities - which, really, was the extent of their "shit talking". Certainly Tim has questioned designers abilities even during his "golden era" - that's the job of a mentor - and even if Mondo/Anya were not specifically assigned to Natalia, an analysis of her talent/abilities/weaknesses is an important component of mentoring their own designers.

 

I'm not saying they skated through the season without an ounce of pettiness. But this discourse surrounding how absolutely terrible they all were makes it sound like Mondo, Anya, Tim and all of the designers stood around the water cooler making fun of poor, innocent Natalia, hooting and hollering about how awful she is. This was simply not true.

 

 

Natasha made a dress for the "steampunk" challenge that was awesome (and didn't win.)  It had little pulleys on the inside that would ratchet up the front of the skirt--she was no schlub at construction.

 

But she'd wind up at the bottom due to poor construction skills, while in the next episode, the judges would rave about someone's garment that was falling apart halfway down the runway, and claim,  "Well, after all, this show isn't about being able to sew, it's about VISION."

 

The judges were consistent in their application of Vision over Construction, right til the very end. Michelle was eliminated despite her strong construction skills for a lack of consistent vision. Nicholas was called out on his construction and eventually eliminated, despite the judges' positive response to his vision. Natalia, too, was the beneficiary of this approach. Her Beach Materials garment was announced safe first because of her strong POV, her Day to Evening look almost won despite her poor finishing, and her Steampunk look almost won for her ideas despite otherwise being a simple - albeit stunning - black dress. I suspect it's Asha who was seen to be constantly defended for her "Vision", but she was placed in the bottom for this a handful of times, and was only in the top with poor construction once, and that was for the "real woman" challenge which did not have a strong showing overall.

 

I really liked Natalia, but the grumblings about her place in the competition started around the same time I myself was questioning why she was still there. She turned out 3 solid looks in a row, but was deservedly eliminated for her hideous pink dress. IMO, tons of designers from the Mothership have been treated far, far worse than Natalia and were much less deserving of the shit they got. Costello, Gordana and Season 11 Amanda immediately come to mind.

 

She might have a good eye, but that makes her a good stylist, not a good designer.
 

 

I thought Anya was a great mentor, precisely due to her "good eye".

[BathKol]

TBH I found Under the Gunn kind of dry and a really dull knock off of PR, like those really bad fake Louis Vuitton purses from Taiwan that you know are fake.

Tim is really not an overpowering presence like Heidi - and Under the Gunn was a misguided attempt to build a show around him. I like Tim fine, but I guess I'm not so enamoured by him that I am unable to look at him in an objective light. He carries himself with a quiet grace and subtle eloquence of long lost days, but at times he can be a bit withdrawn and even a little walled off. He doesn't smile as much as he used to, and he seems pretty burnt out on this whole thing.

Was he even present on Under the Gunn? I only remember Oscar and Mondo with his watermelon head teetering on his splindly little neck. And Nick flailing his arms and wagging his tongue as if he were trying to catch dewdrops in the air. Anya was just There but not really There. If you knock on her I bet she rings, like a hollow bell.

[CoyoteBlue]

I would watch the hell out of a show following Tim teaching a class at Parsons for a semester. Mentoring the students, etc. Under the Gunn just stripped out the really relatable and fun bits of Tim. and forced me to watch Anya and Mondo again.

[Julia]

Well, then. Tim had to give an interview with reactionary bog mummy Cindy Adams to sell his book? And then in the same column she refers to the Democratic convention as "Bumble Obama's pigmies," which is not even unusually vulgar for her.

Increasingly I question his taste level.