Episode Discussion: TFGH

[RedheadZombie]

25 minutes ago, Linny said:

The juxtaposition of Franco and Kim in bed as Julian told Brad he would never do anything to betray Kim's faith in him was a real punch to the gut. For Kim to lie there and list all the ways Julian changed for her and yet still cuddle into Franco like none of it matters makes me so angry on Julian's behalf. Even if I bought what the show is selling, that Kim and FrankenDrew are a love that can't be stopped, that would still not be enough justification for Kim to backstab Julian AND Liz in one fell swoop. It actually makes it worse that Kim is admitting that what she's doing with FrankenDrew will hurt multiple people, because knowing it's wrong and continuing to do it is the height of entitlement. 

Kim spent years building up a relationship in her head as the be all, end all, only to find the real Drew and be confronted with his romantic indifference for her. Now he's gone, and she's settling for a bastardized version of Drew because it feels good, and it feels like validation for everything she romanticized for the last 16 years. What Kim's doing with Franco isn't healthy, and it isn't real, and it's a shame the show is presenting it as a continuation of true love when it's really an obsession she's clinging to at the expense of everything else.

Maybe this is the gateway for Elizabeth and Julian to get together?  The actors have chemistry with everyone, so I'm sure it would work.  Let Kim and FrancoDrew run away together and talk about Oscar.

[sacrebleu]

Quote

Maybe this is the gateway for Elizabeth and Julian to get together?

or a recast Nicholas, or a recast Drew. Honestly-- I'm for anything to get her (and her kids) away from the serial killer.

[ffwbe]

9 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Maybe this is the gateway for Elizabeth and Julian to get together?  The actors have chemistry with everyone, so I'm sure it would work.  Let Kim and FrancoDrew run away together and talk about Oscar.

Don’t see them going there but it would be worth it just to see Sam’s reaction to Liz sleeping with her father

[Katy M]

9 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

Don’t see them going there but it would be worth it just to see Sam’s reaction to Liz sleeping with her father

That would mean that at one point in time Liz would have slept with Sam's husband/ex-husband Jason (and Drew?), her stepfather Ric, her cousin Nikolas, her father Julian.  I was hoping to make a longer list, but that's all I got.

[Hater]

Liz will get nothing out of this.  Franco is being protected here.  Frank will just shove them back together.

Tragic.

[statsgirl]

Curtis, you are very pretty but you're not very bright. You're just lucky that the script said that you successfully overpower Cassandra.

As I watched Cassandra flick her blonde hair, I thought "she could be the new Helena". Valentin is such a waste.

42 minutes ago, Katy M said:

But, that's the ethical question I was getting at.  I agree with you because this is some kind of weird delusion. But, the other side is you are who you think you are and nobody has the right to mess with that.

Medical professionals can, actually.  The man is under the delusion that he is someone else. Because of that, he is not capable of making responsible decisions, and could be declared non compos mentis, a term used to describe someone whose actions were motivated "not by reason but by some false reason or mental impression".

I would go as far as saying they can force Andre's treatment on him but he's not in his right mind.

But of the two, I'd say that Kim is the one less mentally stable and therefore he's the one taking advantage of her.

57 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Even if he did a background check on her, he wouldn't have found out that she lied.  Nowhere in a background check would he have found out that Valentin hired her and changed 98877 DNA tests.  So all he would have found out about her is what she's told everyone, which is the truth, where she's from, growing up with a single mother and grandmother, her job. 

I want to know if the grandmother was real.

I'm really tired of watching Sasha cry. Grow a backbone girl.

[Oracle42]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Franco thinks that he is Drew.  He has Drew's memories, and apparently not his own.  He's not DRew, of course, and I'm not sure how much Franco there is in him, but presumably some.  this is the way that he wants to stay. He has stated that.  He is identifying as Drew.  This is actually an interesting question.  Does anyone have the right to force him to get therapy to change who he thinks he is.  I tend to think yes, because he's clearly not Drew and therefore is delusional in believing something that is not true, but you can draw the parallels.

But he's not delusional. He knows that he's not legally/physically Drew. He knows about Franco, he just does not want Franco's life or his memories. And I don't think anyone has the right to force him to undergo Andre's treatment. Does Jason have the right to force Drew to give up his memories of Jason's life and take his own memories back even though that would fundamentally change who he is?  I don't think he does.

Same thing applies to the DID analogy. The family can try to convince the person to get treatment, but if they're not hurting themselves or others, can the family force them into treatment? Especially a treatment that's potentially harmful?

Edited September 17, 2019 by Oracle42

[perkie1968]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I want to know if the grandmother was real.

I beleive she was.  We just didn't need to hear about her until we needed a plausible reason why Sasha would have accepted Valentin's money to pretend.  

[Hater]

I wish Franco was blamed more for this because I do not believe that this is actual Drew here but this is how Frank is able to do what he wants, aka Roger gets to play something different while then eventually slapping Friz back together.

Meanwhile Liz is all about fighting for him.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

Maybe this is the gateway for Elizabeth and Julian to get together?  

  

1 hour ago, ffwbe said:

Don’t see them going there but it would be worth it just to see Sam’s reaction to Liz sleeping with her father

[ulkis]

I don't feel that sorry for Julian because I've never felt he and Kim had this big connection. When it comes to whiny ass Brad being his son in law, yes, that sucks. Have he and Peter ever had a scene? Screens might explode from whiny.

Ummm enough with this kid Frank, it's embarrassing.

[Oracle42]

1 hour ago, Linny said:

Kim spent years building up a relationship in her head as the be all, end all, only to find the real Drew and be confronted with his romantic indifference for her. Now he's gone, and she's settling for a bastardized version of Drew because it feels good, and it feels like validation for everything she romanticized for the last 16 years. What Kim's doing with Franco isn't healthy, and it isn't real, and it's a shame the show is presenting it as a continuation of true love when it's really an obsession she's clinging to at the expense of everything else.

Well, Drew with Jason's memories was indifferent to her. The man walking around with Drew's memories seems to feel as strongly about her as she feels about him. She wasn't wrong. Of course, the fact that she wasn't wrong about their feelings doesn't excuse her current behavior.

[YaddaYadda]

3 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I don't feel that sorry for Julian because I've never felt he and Kim had this big connection.

They're really not and a great couple, they ain't. But Julian has stood by Kim, he had been understanding if not a pushover at times, and there were times when she was even sort of verbally abusive, so he deserves better than her trying to rape Drew or this completely unhinged thing she has going on with Franco, whom she keeps calling Drew, even though she knows he isn't and she know what she's doing is completely wrong.

There's no excuse for Kim's behavior. She's taking full advantage of a really bad situation. 

[ulkis]

31 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

They're really not and a great couple, they ain't. But Julian has stood by Kim, he had been understanding if not a pushover at times, and there were times when she was even sort of verbally abusive, so he deserves better than her trying to rape Drew or this completely unhinged thing she has going on with Franco, whom she keeps calling Drew, even though she knows he isn't and she know what she's doing is completely wrong.

There's no excuse for Kim's behavior. She's taking full advantage of a really bad situation. 

Oh, it's not a matter of whether he deserves it or not. He doesn't. I just don't think it's gonna affect him that deeply. Instead of "how could you?!" he'll be more "fine, fuck you."

[RedRockRosie]

3 hours ago, Linny said:

Kim spent years building up a relationship in her head as the be all, end all, only to find the real Drew and be confronted with his romantic indifference for her. Now he's gone, and she's settling for a bastardized version of Drew because it feels good, and it feels like validation for everything she romanticized for the last 16 years.

Thing is that the "real Drew" was as much Drew as Franco is right now. Both men have had their memories tampered with so who can really say that the original untampered with Drew who has clear memories would not have wanted to be with Kim....or for that matter ever chose to be with Sam....or even Liz.

This whole storyline/timeline is so f*cked up no wonder all these women are confused!

That being said, in spite of her current compromised mental state...she knows what she is doing is wrong, so again, a lot of this is on her. Neither she nor "Dranco" is particularly rootable here.

[nilyank]

Well of course Kim slept with a man and called him by a name that she knows is not his. She has been doing it with Julian calling him Charlie.it has gotten so bad that Julian told Brad that he wants to be that man Charlie for Kim.

Ridiculous and annoying as hell.  

[Pingaponga]

This whole Franco-with-Drew's-memories story would have been a heck of a lot more interesting if Cameron had gotten Drew's memories.  Adult Drew in the body of a 16-year-old? Much more interesting.

[mostlylurking]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

Does anyone have the right to force him to get therapy to change who he thinks he is.

I kind of think they do in this instance since what was done to him wasn’t his choice. 

Obviously it’s a soap opera and not real in any way, but stories like Casey the alien and the world freezing and what not are just completely out there and fantasy. This storyline just gives me the creeps,  like the one with Jason listening in while Sam was getting branded and god knows what else could have happened.  Blech. 

[Hater]

4 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

This whole Franco-with-Drew's-memories story would have been a heck of a lot more interesting if Cameron had gotten Drew's memories.  Adult Drew in the body of a 16-year-old? Much more interesting.

They should have given them to Jason but that's out of the question.

[statsgirl]

7 minutes ago, Hater said:

They should have given them to Jason but that's out of the question.

I don't think SBu has the acting chops any more. Even the short scene in Afghanistan he was still all Jason.

[formerlyfreedom]

If Roger Howarth doesn’t knock off that abomination of what he considers an accent soon, the show will lose all its goodwill with me for having brought us the yummy and entertaining Dustin.

Scratch that, they already have, but  please continue to bring us Dustin!

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

Oh, it's not a matter of whether he deserves it or not. He doesn't. I just don't think it's gonna affect him that deeply. Instead of "how could you?!" he'll be more "fine, fuck you."

honestly, I think that should be his reaction. "fine, fuck you!" is the exact response Kim deserves. 

[ffwbe]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

Oh, it's not a matter of whether he deserves it or not. He doesn't. I just don't think it's gonna affect him that deeply. Instead of "how could you?!" he'll be more "fine, fuck you."

See I think the opposite. There’s been a lot of references of Kim being the reason Julian stayed good and how important she is to him so I think he’s going to be heartbroken and use this as a reason to go back to the dark side. The issue with their relationship is that they haven’t connected to the audience, probably because it doesn’t seem like the actors have much chemistry and they haven’t shown any examples of Kim being there for Julian so it’s hard for us to believe that she’s the great love of his life, especially when he’s still reaching out to Alexis for help when he has issues.

Kim and Julian are just one of many of the current couples on the show that are boring so it’s hard to care when something happens with them. Ironically, I think the only current couples that have chemistry are Chase and Willow who are probably going to get split up to hook her up with Michael and Franco and Liz who are going to have a really hard time recovering from their current storyline. 

[TeeVee329]

Julian didn't kill Dr. O.  Julian refused a course of action that would lead to killing Britt.  Julian told Brad to keep Dr. O happy, which currently means putting her in touch with Britt.

Julian...is my hero?  Julian...is me?

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

There's no excuse for Kim's behavior. She's taking full advantage of a really bad situation

I agree. She's deeply troubled, but she knows what's going on. She knows Franco isn't Drew. 

Hey, Brad! Kill Obrecht yourself if you want it to happen so badly. GOD. He's awful. At least Julian was able to get him to see some sense.

Sasha's voice is starting to drive me crazy. When she gets stressed it gets babylike but croaking at the same time. Irritating.

I LOVE Jessica Tuck's hair. The color is great.

Tomorrow, according to my cable guide: Jason is perplexed. Hee.

[ulkis]

How would Britt have been killed if not for Julian?

[lala2]

Kim is disgusting for what she did. She has taken advantage of a brain damaged, mentally impaired man. She is a selfish person and a horrible friend. We all know if Cameron had rec'd the transfer, she wouldn't be bedding him, but she can't control herself around her friend's husband?!?! 

As far as Dranco is concerned, I completely understand why he has no interest in being anyone else. If you were to wake up tomorrow w/your memories intact but in a completely different body, would you just accept that you are not yourself and this other person in this other life?!? I think most ppl wouldn't  . . . . at least not immediately. Dranco can't just forget his own life, memories, friendships, and relationships to embrace another person's life and relationships. I think it would be nearly impossible for anyone to just accept. 

That said, I do think the procedure should be done on him no matter what he wants. Despite what he thinks, he is not Drew. It's like a possession. The memories inhabiting his body do not have more of a right to his body than the actual person. Franco only took Drew's memories to save Cameron. He didn't take them for any other reason. He would want to return to Liz if he could. Kim knows this too, which is why her role in this is so disgusting. If 6 months or a year had passed, and Franco was still "Drew," then I might be able to understand Kim being w/him, but it's been what . . . a couple of weeks??! Kim is complete and utter trash!

I'm just hoping Franco's memories are returned, and she gets hurt. Liz deserves the right to stomp all over Kim's body!  

Edited September 18, 2019 by lala2

[TeeVee329]

Just now, ulkis said:

How would Britt have been killed if not for Julian?

He said something to Brad about if they rubbed out Dr. O for knowing the secret, they'd have to rub out the others who knew the secret, Britt (and stupid Nelle).

[Oracle42]

1 hour ago, RedRockRosie said:

Thing is that the "real Drew" was as much Drew as Franco is right now. Both men have had their memories tampered with so who can really say that the original untampered with Drew who has clear memories would not have wanted to be with Kim....or for that matter ever chose to be with Sam....or even Liz.

Sure, legally and physically Drew is Drew Cain - but he has 20 years of Jason Morgan's memories, 1 year of memories as Jake Doe, 2 years of memories he created when he believed  he was Jason, and 2 years of memories he created using the name Drew Cain once he accepted that he wasn't Jason.

From what we know about Andrew Cain, he: was never adopted;  spent a few years as a foster child in a dysfunctional, chaotic household with Franco, Betsy and her child molester boyfriend;  grew up in the foster care system; knew about Jason Q's life; didn't develop any close friendships during school or in the Navy Seals and his only significant romantic connection was with Kim. Real Drew doesn't seem to have any connection to that history, and he let go of Jason's.  He has the relationships that he built as Jake/Jason/Drew but his personality seems more like Jake Doe than like someone with Drew Cain's history or Jason Morgan's memories.

I think he wasn't getting any direction/background so Drew Cain was more or less Billy Miller.

[YaddaYadda]

24 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Tomorrow, according to my cable guide: Jason is perplexed. Hee.

So he'll look more constipated than usual? 

Jason needs to fall down a bottomless pit.

[lala2]

4 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Sure, legally and physically Drew is Drew Cain - but he has 20 years of Jason Morgan's memories, 1 year of memories as Jake Doe, 2 years of memories he created when he believed  he was Jason, and 2 years of memories he created using the name Drew Cain once he accepted that he wasn't Jason.

From what we know about Andrew Cain, he: was never adopted;  spent a few years as a foster child in a dysfunctional, chaotic household with Franco, Betsy and her child molester boyfriend;  grew up in the foster care system; knew about Jason Q's life; didn't develop any close friendships during school or in the Navy Seals and his only significant romantic connection was with Kim. Real Drew doesn't seem to have any connection to that history, and he let go of Jason's.  He has the relationships that he built as Jake/Jason/Drew but his personality seems more like Jake Doe than like someone with Drew Cain's history or Jason Morgan's memories.

I think he wasn't getting any direction/background so Drew Cain was more or less Billy Miller.

I agree. We don't really know who the "real" Drew Cain was. I don't find RoHo's version of "Drew" to be bad just b/c it's different from BM's. At the end of the day, BM was never really "Drew." He was always "Jason" w/a new identity.  I'm glad Roger is doing something different.

I know many don't like his Drew, but as a Drew fan, I'm fine w/it.  I don't necessarily see his Drew as a jerk. He just has no connection to anyone in Franco's life. He can't fake it or force it. He also doesn't want the connection, and again, I can't say I blame him for that.  

As a Friz fan, I would love to see Dranco drawn to Elizabeth, etc., but as I said in my own post, I can't fault "Drew" for not wanting to just accept that he's someone else. He may physically look like someone else, but in his mind, he's still "Drew." I know if I woke up in a different body w/my mind intact, I wouldn't just fall into a new life; I'd want to get back to my old life. I honestly think most ppl would feel the same. 

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, RedRockRosie said:

 so who can really say that the original untampered with Drew who has clear memories would not have wanted to be with Kim....or for that matter ever chose to be with Sam....or even Liz.

If we're going by the way the real Drew behaved when he was falling for Elizabeth and then Sam but they weren't in a relationship, he didn't go grabbing them by the arm and kissing them in the middle of a public building as Franco did with Kim in the hospital. When Drew understood that Elizabeth had some sort of relationship with Ric, he backed off.  He was not aggressive/entitled as FrancoDrew is behaving. He did not do 1000 percent intensity about his own desires regardless of what was going on around him - if so, he never would have succeeded as a SEAL.

I think it's within Franco's nature to latch onto the memory of a relationship of a few months and blow it up in his mind to 'we were madly in love and should have been together forever.' Such extremism is a call-back to his disturbing behavior like locking Tom in a cage with the shock collar 'out of love for/to protect Elizabeth.' 

[Oracle42]

5 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

If we're going by the way the real Drew behaved when he was falling for Elizabeth and then Sam but they weren't in a relationship, he didn't go grabbing them by the arm and kissing them in the middle of a public building as Franco did with Kim in the hospital. When Drew understood that Elizabeth had some sort of relationship with Ric, he backed off.  He was not aggressive/entitled as FrancoDrew is behaving.

But that's also Jason.

Quote

He did not do 1000 percent intensity about his own desires regardless of what was going on around him - if so, he never would have succeeded as a SEAL.

Shiloh was also a Navy Seal. They're not a monolith.

Quote

I think it's within Franco's nature to latch onto the memory of a relationship of a few months and blow it up in his mind to 'we were madly in love and should have been together forever.' Such extremism is a call-back to his disturbing behavior like locking Tom in a cage with the shock collar 'out of love for/to protect Elizabeth.' 

That is true, Franco is obsessive and selfish - but that doesn't mean that real Drew, with all of his memories, isn't.

[lala2]

2 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

That is true, Franco is obsessive and selfish - but that doesn't mean that real Drew, with all of his memories, isn't.

Exactly! I loved Billy Miller. I loved his time as Jason, and I loved his time as Drew. I wish he were still on the show. 

That said, he never showed us the "real" Drew b/c he was never the real Drew. He never got Drew's memories. We have no idea if the "real" Drew wouldn't grab and kiss a woman he likes. Well, actually we do know b/c that's what the writers wrote "real" Drew as doing.  The real Drew is assertive and knows what he wants. The real Drew is blunt. The real Drew is selfish just like most people at times. 

I think some don't care for RoHo's version b/c it's so wildly different from BM's, but to me, that's a good thing. This is a different story, not the same story they already told. I hate that Kim slept w/Dranco, and I hate that Friz has imploded but I'm not angry w/Dranco or RoHo's take on the character. All of that has been interesting - at least for me - to watch. 

[Cheyanne11]

42 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Shiloh was also a Navy Seal. They're not a monolith.

No, he wasn't.  He was a civilian contractor working with the military.

[Oracle42]

9 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

No, he wasn't.  He was a civilian contractor working with the military.

Sorry, you're right - the Navy Seal that was helping Shiloh steal the money died at the time

[statsgirl]

It's an interesting philosophical question -- what makes who a person is? Is it the memories, which is what Franco carries?  Is it the reactions and feelings, which is what Drew had?

You can't entirely divorce the two, of course.  But even with Drew Caine's memories, Franco still retains his impulses and sense of entitlement which the other Drew never had. Where Drew backed off, Franco would have pushed forward. Because of who he is innately.  Small infants have personalities even before they encounter experiences.

If Franco had lived Drew's life rather than his own, his memories would have been different than the ones he now carries because Franco would not have reacted to Drew's experiences the same way that Drew did.

[ciarra]

It's clothing rerun day, first with Liz's top, then Cassandra's hideous dress. 

So is Willow's job a thing in real life?  Or just something they made up so she can hang out and "teach" at the hospital?  Can't she just have Franco's art therapy job, instead?

[Oracle42]

I do think it was telling that FrankenDrew apparently knows about the brain tumor and he still has no interest in being Franco

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, ciarra said:

So is Willow's job a thing in real life?  Or just something they made up so she can hang out and "teach" at the hospital?  Can't she just have Franco's art therapy job, instead?

It is a real thing. In children's hospitals and maybe in large general ones, there are teachers so that children who are away from school for long periods of time due to illness don't lose out on their education. 

I've only met people who do it part time though. Still, I'm not going to quibble. Anything that gets more focus on the hospital and away from the "coffee importer" works for me.

[TeeVee329]

I was kinda hoping, if Willow was burned at the elementary school (and why again?  Because of Nina's bitchery?), they might bump her to the high school.  Given Dustin's also there teaching, you could have had them become friends, given them each another connection, like a Rachel and Schuyler on OLTL vibe.

Oh well.  At least this is better than Michael creating a job for her at ELQ, like that episode of "Golden Girls" where Dorothy gets hired by an old student to teach a motivation class for his company.

[perkie1968]

16 hours ago, Katy M said:

But, the other side is you are who you think you are and nobody has the right to mess with that.

I'm clearly sitting at a different table on this, because I totally disagree with this.  I can think I'm Meryl Streep but I can't walk into her bank and clean out her account.  Not the greatest example but you know what I mean.  

this idea that he's allowed to be Drew because he has Drew's memories is ridiculous.  Maxie isn't Georgie even though she has her heart.  Jordan isn't Ryan and Joss isn't Nelle just because they have their kidney.  If those three started behaving they were the person who's transplanted organ they have, and declaring themselves to be said person, we would all think they've lost their minds and want them to get some medical help.  Franco is not Drew no matter how much he thinks he beleives it or wants to believe it or whatever.  

Edited September 18, 2019 by perkie1968

[Captanne]

For me, it doesn't matter what memories Franco now has or who he thinks he is or who he wants to be.  He is a patient who underwent a strange and dangerous mind-altering experiment against his will.  He is now suffering mental delusions because of it.  He should be under a doctor's care and there are ALL KINDS of laws that can declare him non compos mentis.  It's the procedure and the results that cause that situation.  

Kim is supposedly a doctor, right?  She is supposedly in her right mind, right?  She hasn't had any bizarre alien tests or procedures or fevers, right?  She is suffering a breakdown because of the death of her son and the influence of Franco's medical condition (that should be treated and not indulged for her own benefit and horniness, FFS.) 

Honestly, and only in my opinion, she is the ethical nightmare.  Franco is a victim here.  And therein lies my problem with the show as it exists -- based on a hospital narrative structure.  Metaphysically speaking, the writers are revealing a fundamental misunderstanding of the duty of care in a bargain with "love in the afternoon" being more interesting and getting more people to buy Zimbalta and Swiffer Wet Jets.  To my mind, that is professionally corrupt and really colors my opinion of the series in general.

[YaddaYadda]

11 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I think it's within Franco's nature to latch onto the memory of a relationship of a few months and blow it up in his mind to 'we were madly in love and should have been together forever.' Such extremism is a call-back to his disturbing behavior like locking Tom in a cage with the shock collar 'out of love for/to protect Elizabeth.' 

That's true and Kim seems to have the same default setting. She is more than willing to play. In this, I blame her more than I blame him. 

The writers and FV suck for this. Kim was sort coming undone with the attempted rape of Drew, but this? They totally threw her under the bus to make us feel bad for Franco. Franco isn't choosing any of this. Franco was molested as a child and now he has someone else's memories and a willing participant. If Franco ever regains his memory, I'm sure he will be beyond horrified by this. He chose to take Drew's memories to save Cam, but he's had no agency for anything else.

Edited September 18, 2019 by YaddaYadda

[perkie1968]

10 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

Shiloh was also a Navy Seal

No he wasn't.  He was a security guy/independent security contractor thingy.  

49 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

I was kinda hoping, if Willow was burned at the elementary school (and why again?  Because of Nina's bitchery?),

No, because she refused to name Shiloh as her baby daddy in court and was sent to lockup for contempt.  

[Katy M]

47 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

I'm clearly sitting at a different table on this, because I totally disagree with this.  I can think I'm Meryl Streep but I can't walk into her bank and clean out her account.  Not the greatest example but you know what I mean.  

But is he trying to steal anything from Drew, or is he just acting like him and trying to have relationships with the same people (which is completely up to them, of course)?

I thought the rules were you can be whoever you  want as long as you're not hurting anyone.  Physically or financially.  Hurting feelings doesn't count.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Katy M

[blondiek237]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

But is he trying to steal anything from Drew, or is he just acting like him and trying to have relationships with the same people (which is completely up to them, of course)?

I thought the rules were you can be whoever you  want as long as you're not hurting anyone.  Physically or financially.  Hurting feelings doesn't count.

I can say I am the Pope, and if those in my life buy into my delusions, then they are as delusional as I am.  I am not the Pope and nothing will change that no matter how many people call me that.

[ulkis]

31 minutes ago, Captanne said:

For me, it doesn't matter what memories Franco now has or who he thinks he is or who he wants to be.  He is a patient who underwent a strange and dangerous mind-altering experiment against his will.  He is now suffering mental delusions because of it.  He should be under a doctor's care and there are ALL KINDS of laws that can declare him non compos mentis.  It's the procedure and the results that cause that situation.  

Kim is supposedly a doctor, right?  She is supposedly in her right mind, right?  She hasn't had any bizarre alien tests or procedures or fevers, right?  She is suffering a breakdown because of the death of her son and the influence of Franco's medical condition (that should be treated and not indulged for her own benefit and horniness, FFS.) 

Honestly, and only in my opinion, she is the ethical nightmare.  Franco is a victim here.  And therein lies my problem with the show as it exists -- based on a hospital narrative structure.  Metaphysically speaking, the writers are revealing a fundamental misunderstanding of the duty of care in a bargain with "love in the afternoon" being more interesting and getting more people to buy Zimbalta and Swiffer Wet Jets.  To my mind, that is professionally corrupt and really colors my opinion of the series in general.

I don't think they are trying to give the impression this is the sane thing to do. Just shake-up Friz without having Franco cheat with his mind.

[lala2]

25 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

That's true and Kim seems to have the same default setting. She is more than willing to play. In this, I blame her more than I blame him. 

The writers and FV suck for this. Kim was sort coming undone with the attempted rape of Drew, but this? They totally threw her under the bus to make us feel bad for Franco. Franco isn't choosing any of this. Franco was molested as a child and now he has someone else's memories and a willing participant. If Franco ever regains his memory, I'm sure he will be beyond horrified by this. He chose to take Drew's memories to save Cam, but he's had no agency for anything else.

Exactly! Franco, IMO, is not to blame for anything. AFAIC, Franco is not even present at the moment. He is not controlling his own body, which is why what Kim is doing to him is awful. She's indulging his delusions and taking advantage of him. It's disgusting. I thought it was bad enough when she almost raped Drew, but this ........ even more disgusting because she KNOWS Franco wouldn't want to have sex with her. 

I don't blame Dranco either because he walked away from her. She's the one who called him back. Kim is disgusting. 

The speed with which this story is moving also has me wondering if Franco is going to get his memories back soon. I really think he must because AFAIC, all the beats in this story have played out. What other story is there to tell? Maybe it's just me, but this story has moved very quickly. 

[Captanne]

3 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I don't think they are trying to give the impression this is the sane thing to do. Just shake-up Friz without having Franco cheat with his mind.

I'll be okay with that (I don't have any investment in Liz and haven't since her "een" on the end of anyth-een with an "ing" on the end of it) if there is some sort of comeuppance for Kim's unethical behavior.  The show needs to recognize her breach and take away her license to practice medicine.  If this infraction was about not paying parking tickets or running out on a restaurant tab, that would be one thing -- but it goes to the fundamental tenets of medicine.