Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Gigi43]

I kept wondering through out the episode if Helena is sick maybe because Constance may not be well? Obviously I hope that's not the case, but too often it seems these days with her generation either they may not be well, or they're getting ready to retire for good, so I do wonder if this could be it for Hells? But the actual stories? Meh.

[ulkis]

Constance sounds pretty spry.

[backhometome]

If I was Sam I would have pushed Liz out the damn window. I love how she calls Sam paranoid.

[mybabyaidan]

Not even remotely interested in a Sam/Liz bitchfest, so today is a giant SKIP.  Thanks for the warnings.

 

 Note to the 2 FEMALE HEAD WRITERS:

 

It is NOT entertaining to watch 2 full grown MOTHERS/WOMEN snarking at each other and throwing 5th grade tantrums. It's just not. 

[TeeVee329]

I kept wondering through out the episode if Helena is sick maybe because Constance may not be well? Obviously I hope that's not the case, but too often it seems these days with her generation either they may not be well, or they're getting ready to retire for good, so I do wonder if this could be it for Hells? But the actual stories? Meh.

 

If Helena doesn't leap from her bed tomorrow/Monday and cackle in delight about Nikolas' evil plan, I'll eat my hat.

[Gigi43]

I'm hoping that's what will happen. But I'm paranoid by default, in general, so I had to throw it out there.

[Darklazr]

If JJ had never left the show, sure I would say that original LnL2 were the loves of each others lives.  But, once Lucky introduced Liz and Jason to each other at the old box car and he "died" there was major chemistry between Liason.  Liz mourned her first love, grew up and moved on with Jason her first adult pairing and the rest is history.  I was excited to see JJ's return in 2009, but that all went to hell with the sleazy Niz crap and all of the damaged done to Liz and Lucky between 1999 and 2007 just turned me off LnL66666.

[WendyCR72]

If only the plane had crashed. (I would never advocate this in real life, as a disclaimer referencing recent tragic events.) But as this is fiction, anything that would end Jizam's tired self is welcome.

[TeeVee329]

As long as the flight attendant gets a parachute. #teamflightattendant

Edited November 19, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Darklazr]

Sam's whole diatribe was pretty much BS, though. Liz never tried to change Jason, she never insisted he be a 9-to-5, eat dinner as a family guy. That's the same obnoxious Carly-esque "she can't handle the life" crap the show tries to shove at the audience. Like supporting criminals is somehow really great.

 

Liz had moved on with AJ, and with Ric. She fell for Jake before she knew who he was. She wasn't perpetually hung up on Jason, real or imagined. 

 

The show is totally trolling the Sam/Liz factions. As a Liz fan, the oncoming trainwreck that will be this reveal is gonna be brutal. 

 

As a LizFF, I always loved that she had her own life, career and friends, and she never depended on Jason or tried to change him.  Liz was never do or die when it came to being with Jason, ever.

[tallyrand]

I think Liason was written a completely different way pre SOS and post SOS.  Pre SOS (as in 1999-2006), I would agree that Liz didn't depend on Jason or try to change him.  But post-SOS, especially post 2008, I think Liz was somewhat needy with Jason.*  Which is why I started hating them when I used to love them.  Everything I liked about Liason changed post-SOS. Even their chemistry wasn't the same for me anymore.  I have no interest in watching a character I like get all pathetic over a man, especially one who loves someone else.  Despite the chemistry I saw and the story I wanted them to tell with Liason, they never did tell it which to me is a crying shame, but I'm sure many would disagree.  But unfortunately, with the exception of AJ, Ric, and Ewan, Liz has been pathetic over every man she has some kind of romance with since 2008.  

 

* Liz did develop feelings for Jake without knowing he was Jason, but I believe those feeling deepened and became very unhealthy once she found out he was Jason.  

Edited November 19, 2015 by tallyrand

[MissE]

Jason is not worth making Sam and Liz look like idiots with all this fighting. They both need to forget him and move on. 

 

Also, Becky and Kemo have more chemistry with each other, than they do with any of the guys on this show.

[peachmangosteen]

I am so Team Flight Attendant, it's not even funny.

 

Same! I was hoping they'd fire everyone else and just have her play all the characters.

 

Nikolas rubbing his lower lip all over Hayden was not attractive. blerg.

I pushed fast forward so fast when that started. Shudder.

 

Liz sucks. That being said, her and Sam should seriously just hook up. When they started laughing about the whole thing and Sam touched Liz's shoulder, that was the most chem either has had with anyone in awhile.

Edited November 19, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[KerleyQ]

I think the real reason Kiki agreed to skip town so she wouldn't have to keep her job, allergic to jobs as she is.

 

"Oh, yes, thank God.  Otherwise, I was going to have to go into work.  Do you think I should call in or just let them figure out I won't be showing up on their own?" 

[One Tough Cookie]

Sooooooooo, I mixed myself a watermelon martini and settled down to watch today' epi but I had to bail when I saw St. Jason climbing down a rope on Cassedine Island.

 

I wasn't drunk enough to actually follow that crap.

Edited November 20, 2015 by One More Time

[SiouxB]

Nikolas rubbing his lower lip all over Hayden was not attractive. blerg.

 

I pushed fast forward so fast when that started. Shudder.

 

Me too !  That was so freakin' disturbing, I couldn't get away fast enough !!

Edited November 20, 2015 by SiouxB

[Tiger]

If JJ had never left the show, sure I would say that original LnL2 were the loves of each others lives.  But, once Lucky introduced Liz and Jason to each other at the old box car and he "died" there was major chemistry between Liason.  Liz mourned her first love, grew up and moved on with Jason her first adult pairing and the rest is history.  I was excited to see JJ's return in 2009, but that all went to hell with the sleazy Niz crap and all of the damaged done to Liz and Lucky between 1999 and 2007 just turned me off LnL66666.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but until now, Liz & Jason have never been actual couple; Liason has largely played out over a literal handful of episodes from '99 - '14, with most of it existing solely in the minds of the fans.

[truthaboutluv]

Jason and Elizabeth was weird. If I remember it well, it did seem like the writers were building towards them in the classic slow-build soap opera fashion. And then suddenly and abruptly it was just randomly derailed with no payoff for their fans. I mean I wasn't shipping it so I didn't care but I was confused about what the point was if after all that they never even got together. 

 

But yeah after months or was it almost a year of build up, it just fizzled and then they moved Jason into Courtney's orbit and later Sam and I think Liz went off into the first Lucky recast orbit and then later Ric and then later the one night stand with Zander and second Lucky recast. Then after years of nothing, years after the original build up, they slept together because Lucky was a drug addict cheating on Liz with Maxie and Jason saw Sam having sex with Ric, after pushing her away "for her own good."

 

Then once again nothing came of it except in typical Liz fashion she got knocked up but of course Jason's life was too dangerous and so he gave up his parental rights to Lucky. And that's really essentially been the tale of the great Jason and Elizabeth romance. It always felt like something that was meant to go somewhere but never did. And personally once the writers abandoned it after the original build-up, it never had the same chemistry again and lost what made it special at first. The love scene was okay and I guess the poor fans who hung around for all those years must have appreciated it but then, nothing. 

Edited November 20, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Lillybee]

I have been spending way too much time wondering where is Robin?  We know that Helena took her the last time she was kidnapped but it doesn't appear that she is on Cassidine Island unless Helena moved the Creighton-Clark clinic of the chronically undead there. Robin was last seen in a medical lab with the numbers 1340 outside the door. Robin is doing some kind of medical research in her lab. Is she working on a cure for whatever Hells claims to be dying from. This totally makes no sense to me. One would think that Hells would keep her research MD near her.

[WendyCR72]

Robin is doing some kind of medical research in her lab. Is she working on a cure for whatever Hells claims to be dying from. This totally makes no sense to me.

 

Why start making sense now?

[Francie]

Why start making sense now?

I'm running out of t-shirt options, but this is perfect.

 

I may have to move to refrigerator magnets. Or coasters.

[Tiger]

Jason and Elizabeth was weird. If I remember it well, it did seem like the writers were building towards them in the classic slow-build soap opera fashion. And then suddenly and abruptly it was just randomly derailed with no payoff for their fans. I mean I wasn't shipping it so I didn't care but I was confused about what the point was if after all that they never even got together. 

 

But yeah after months or was it almost a year of build up, it just fizzled and then they moved Jason into Courtney's orbit and later Sam and I think Liz went off into the first Lucky recast orbit and then later Ric and then later the one night stand with Zander and second Lucky recast. Then after years of nothing, years after the original build up, they slept together because Lucky was a drug addict cheating on Liz with Maxie and Jason saw Sam having sex with Ric, after pushing her away "for her own good."

 

Then once again nothing came of it except in typical Liz fashion she got knocked up but of course Jason's life was too dangerous and so he gave up his parental rights to Lucky. And that's really essentially been the tale of the great Jason and Elizabeth romance. It always felt like something that was meant to go somewhere but never did. And personally once the writers abandoned it after the original build-up, it never had the same chemistry again and lost what made it special at first. The love scene was okay and I guess the poor fans who hung around for all those years must have appreciated it but then, nothing.

Again, I may be misrembering but the original build-up in '99 wasn't even a year because they only started interacting shortly before Lucky's "death" in April and then Jason left town before the end of the year after seeing Carly & Sonny together and then getting shot. I think Liz nursed him back to health in her art studio for a few weeks and then he took off.

And I don't recall them interacting much what he came back in '02 for Carly's fake funeral.

Like that said, I may be misremembering things, but Liason's entire "saga" took place over a literal handful of episodes spread over 15 years.

[truthaboutluv]

Again, I may be misrembering but the original build-up in '99 wasn't even a year because they only started interacting shortly before Lucky's "death" in April and then Jason left town before the end of the year after seeing Carly & Sonny together and then getting shot. I think Liz nursed him back to health in her art studio for a few weeks and then he took off.

And I don't recall them interacting much what he came back in '02 for Carly's fake funeral.

Like that said, I may be misremembering things, but Liason's entire "saga" took place over a literal handful of episodes spread over 15 years.

 

You're right. I remember them hanging out a little bit right after Lucky "died" and then Elizabeth hiding him out and helping him when he got shot, when he refused to see Sonny and Carly after walking in on them having sex. I somehow completely forgot about him leaving town though but there was a few months there, or maybe a year, that I stopped watching. 

[Oracle42]

I remember being really into them until the triangle with Zander. It was so annoying and dumb that I just lost interest

[mybabyaidan]

I have been spending way too much time wondering where is Robin?  We know that Helena took her the last time she was kidnapped but it doesn't appear that she is on Cassidine Island unless Helena moved the Creighton-Clark clinic of the chronically undead there. Robin was last seen in a medical lab with the numbers 1340 outside the door. Robin is doing some kind of medical research in her lab. Is she working on a cure for whatever Hells claims to be dying from. This totally makes no sense to me. One would think that Hells would keep her research MD near her.

 

It could still be on the island I guess...right?  I mean it is an entire island.  With all the secret experiments the Cassadines run, I am sure a medical facility would have been a good investement.  Maybe it's hidden, and even Nikolas doesn't know about it....

[katie9918]

If JJ had never left the show, sure I would say that original LnL2 were the loves of each others lives. But, once Lucky introduced Liz and Jason to each other at the old box car and he "died" there was major chemistry between Liason. Liz mourned her first love, grew up and moved on with Jason her first adult pairing and the rest is history. I was excited to see JJ's return in 2009, but that all went to hell with the sleazy Niz crap and all of the damaged done to Liz and Lucky between 1999 and 2007 just turned me off LnL66666.

Am I the only one who appreciates GV's portrayal of the adult Lucky and the chemistry he had with Rebecca Herbst (among others) despite Guza's attempts to portray him as a loser because he wanted a normal life?

[rur]

I'm running out of t-shirt options, but this is perfect.

 

I may have to move to refrigerator magnets. Or coasters.

 

You could make the shirts like the T-shirts that say they're Halloween costumes that provide a box for you to check (mummy, witch, zombie, pirate, princess, etc.)

 

They could just have "GH:" at the top, and then a list (on the front and back) that could be checked off, according to the day and one's mood.

 

Of course, there'd still probably be a need for several  shirts, just to get all the phrases printed . . . 

Edited November 20, 2015 by rur

[Bringonthedrama]

It seems like Sam and Liz are both being delusional/having selective memory about Jason and their history with him. Yet Sam's not wrong that Liz wanted Jason to be her white knight and also wanted some normalcy in a relationship (but the '9-5' line was crap). Liz admitted that to Jason when she confessed about changing Danny's test results. She said she wanted him to love her and take all the sadness/ pain away. The one time I definitely remember re: normalcy being an issue with Liason was they agreed to a romantic dinner at her house. She was excited and placing candles and such on the table, but then Jason called and said something came up, sorry. Liz (while alone) hung up the phone, got angry, threw stuff by her table and then was cold to Jason when he showed up during her shift at the hospital. Contrast that with Sam not getting angry/ just sort of sucking it up when Jason had himself sent to prison indefinitely (to protect Michael) without talking to her first.

 

Then on the other hand we see Sam going about her great love with Jason and their great life together, choosing to forget that over the years she's been shot, threatened, kidnapped, violated (that's what Franco drugging her, and seeing/touching her naked body was, period), and had her baby stolen from her because of her relationship with Jason, or as a result of his own actions. There was also a time at the hospital when Liz and Sam were on okay terms, at a time when Liz and Jason were seeing each other. Liz mentioned Jason not showing up to be with her, and Sam's response was basically, get used to it because Jason is married to his work, I speak from experience.

 

I look at these two women now and think, good lord you two have serious self-esteem issues and need therapy. STAT.

[Francie]

You could make the shirts like the T-shirt that say they're Halloween costumes that provide a box for you to check (mummy, witch, zombie, pirate, princess, etc.)

 

They could just have "GH:" at the top, and then a list (on the front and back) that could be checked off, according to the day and one's mood.

 

Of course, there'd still probably be a need for several  shirts, just to get all the phrases printed . . . 

 Gread idea -- I love it!

 

Though, except for the Fat AJ* shirt. That, of course, could fit everything.

 

*I mock because AJ was not fat. In fact, if you do want to order a Men's X-large, please mark the Ron Carlivati's Ego (before he was fired) box.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Francie

[tvgoddess]

Oh Nina, no matter how many jobs you have, you will always be a batshit crazy psychotic lunatic bitch.

 

Sam was way too easy on Liz. She should have thrown her ass off the plane.

 

T-shirt slogan for today? KILL. ME. NOW.

[ciarra]

I may be wrong, but when has that stopped me before?  The police can't prove now that Keekster was drunk.  No liquor bottle, Morgan took care of that.  No blood alcohol level test.  Kiki could say she was driving the car, but it was dark and she was unaware what she hit.  "I thought I saw a deer and ran into a guard rail, but it was so dark I didn't see anything."   She should have confessed because she knows Neener can't keep her mouth shut. 

If anyone wants to throw a drink in my face for being wrong, I'll be in Greece in 5 minutes, and you won't be able to catch me.

Edited November 20, 2015 by ciarra

[HeatLifer]

I thought Liz and Sam were both majorly embarrassing and spouting really low BS. Have they ever wondered what Jason was doing while they were cat fighting? Not giving a fuck and going about his business.

I don't even know where to start with Liz. She really has no remorse about what she's doing. None. Doesn't respect that Jason's married, doesn't respect Patrick, doesn't respect Emma/Danny/her own kids, doesn't respect herself, I could go on.

And a part of me is kinda "HUH?" with Sam. She wants Jason to remember being in love with her, so she, Patrick, and Jason can then chat about their circumstance? Plan a threesome? So she's in love with Patrick and in love with Jason the same? I just can't because the Real Sam would have peaced out with Patrick. There's just nothing this show can do to make me believe she's deeply in love with Dr. Douche.

[WendyCR72]

As shitty as he is written, I am still a Patrick/Robin/Scrubs fan. But even I am failing to understand why this Jiz/Samtrick shit is being dragged out. JT is leaving in about a month. Samtrick should have been over the minute Jake was said to be Jason. (Actually, Samtrick should have never existed, but whatever.)

 

The fact that JP/SA are just crapping on all involved so Liz can remain "clean" annoys the crap out of me.

 

END THIS SHIT.

 

In that regard, it's just like RC thinking the playing field for his pet Sabrina and Robin was the same for Patrick. I didn't believe that shit then, and it doesn't fly now where Sam and Jason with regard to Liz are concerned. And I don't even care about JaSam. But Sam would have made tracks over Patrick by now if written in character.

 

It's still all about plot instead of character.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

 

And a part of me is kinda "HUH?" with Sam. She wants Jason to remember being in love with her, so she, Patrick, and Jason can then chat about their circumstance? Plan a threesome? So she's in love with Patrick and in love with Jason the same? I just can't because the Real Sam would have peaced out with Patrick. There's just nothing this show can do to make me believe she's deeply in love with Dr. Douche.

 

Sam just wants all the men in the room, all the time. She wants both Jason and Patprick for...reasons. Ego, probably. Or can't get enough male attention.

Edited November 20, 2015 by P3pp3rb1rd

[HeatLifer]

I can't BELIEVE how they've wasted JT, knowing he's leaving. And I can't BELIEVE he literally has NO Emmy reel. Maybe that recent scene with Emma but that's it.*

*I actually can believe these things, but I wanted to be dramatic.

[ulkis]

I can't BELIEVE how they've wasted JT, knowing he's leaving. And I can't BELIEVE he literally has NO Emmy reel. Maybe that recent scene with Emma but that's it.*

 

Sorry, the powers that be can't hear you over the whooshing sounds of Bryan Craig's jazzhands.

[TheGourmez]

Am I the only one who appreciates GV's portrayal of the adult Lucky and the chemistry he had with Rebecca Herbst (among others) despite Guza's attempts to portray him as a loser because he wanted a normal life?

 

Not at all. He was so, so much better than Lucky #2, and he brought the hot and the pretty. It just sucked that he was constantly trampled underfoot by Jason.

[katie9918]

Sam just wants all the men in the room, all the time. She wants both Jason and Patprick for...reasons. Ego, probably. Or can't get enough male attention.

Yet she's been as honest as she can possibly be at this unreal point, which makes her slightly more sympathetic than Liz, who's not only still covering up her complicity and duplicity but honestly believes that she has a right to bitchface at Sam right now.

[Oracle42]

When Jason was in the room Sam gave zero fucks about the rest of the men in it. 

 

Triangles don't work without chemistry and foundation. RC kept shoving these couples together and insisting that his thrown together, no investment couples had the same weight as couples that had actually been developed over time with good writing

[Kitty Redstone]

Why is Nina?!?!?!?!?

 

This character, her barnacle of a boyfriend, and that idiot girl they've semi-adopted all need to DIAF.

[jsbt]

As a LizFF, I always loved that she had her own life, career and friends, and she never depended on Jason or tried to change him.  Liz was never do or die when it came to being with Jason, ever.

 

Until the last 3-4 years. The problem started with Bob Guza, but it was especially exacerbated by Ron Carlivati. I believe RC's intention was to ultimately tie Liz's grasping need for Jason both in 2012 and today, and her unsuccessful relationships with other men, back to her complete breakdown in the original Nik/Lucky affair. Which I do think he was right about, I do think that is the reason all this has happened to her ever since then. The affair fundamentally changed Liz's character. She has never been truly stable, grounded or happy since.

 

The problem with RC's writing was - then and always - that he loved to obsess about these larger throughlines for characters which he would explore that would put them through the wringer and take them somewhere that dealt in their core issues, but he very, very rarely would actually write those discoveries or evolutions. He would just completely compromise the characters, drag them through the muck, then leave them there hanging while he got distracted by some other storyline or pairing or waited on some other piece to finally show up, gambling that he'd get there someday.

 

RC made Liz lie to Jason in 2012 because he wanted to explore the roots of her dysfunction with Jason, Lucky and Nikolas, despite two of the characters not being on the show and the third about to leave. He gambled that eventually they'd all return and he'd get to do a quad with Jason/Liz/Sam/McBain while still waiting on Lucky. (Years later, though it failed, he did it again with Jakeson/Liz/Sam/Patrick, and still no Lucky.) RC brought Nikolas back the following year and pushed a return to that 'romance' hard even though it was intensely unpopular. He gambled that it would all pay off when Lucky eventually returned to reform the circle with Nikolas and Liz. Lucky has appeared once for a handful of days in the last four years. RC made Liz lie to Jason and the world to keep pushing this same fucking character thread even though Lucky is gone again and it completely annihilated her character even more than where she was when he first found her. He gambled that it would all pay off. Then he got fired.

 

I think what's happened to Liz has a real basis in her recent history, and I actually really dug her with Jason in the mid-2000s. But there were better ways to fix her damage than damaging her a million times worse and then walking away. I can barely look at her anymore. And this is just par for the course with the remnants of Ron Carlivati's insane tapestry - I can almost truly enjoy the Crimson scenes with clueless dilettante Nina and Maxie bonding, the first time Michelle Stafford has clicked on this show, ever, until I remember everything Nina has done for the past two years. I have never liked Jasam much (until just now), but Sam has always been beyond devoted to Jason and this Patrick indecision is ridiculous. And it all didn't have to go this way.

Edited November 20, 2015 by jsbt

[RedRockRosie]

Am I the only one who appreciates GV's portrayal of the adult Lucky and the chemistry he had with Rebecca Herbst (among others) despite Guza's attempts to portray him as a loser because he wanted a normal life?

 

You are not alone. I really liked that they finally had Lucky grow up. Just got tired of JJ's emo-Lucky all the time. Loved GV's chemistry with Liz and KM/Sam.

[Chairperson Meow]

Wtf is up with Bryan Craig? My bf just caught me catching up with GH and blurted out "Who is that crack head?" He then said "I hate him. He's a douche." If he only knew...

But he did then chant for Todd Manning to punch Morgan.

Almost as funny as Roger Howarth clearly evaluating his life and finances during scenes with Emmy Losing "Actor", Bryan Craig.

[Oracle42]

I don't even understand what RC was doing with Liz. I can understand writing her attachment to the amnesiac - she was lonely, he didn't have anyone and if he had nowhere to go, he wouldn't leave her - that could play into her abandonment issues if that was something he wanted to address. But, what then? What was supposed to be the end game with this story? 

[HeatLifer]

The endgame of the story was always JaSam with various different characters providing the drama of their separation. I don't think Ron was thinking further than that.

[WendyCR72]

The endgame of the story was always JaSam with various different characters providing the drama of their separation. I don't think Ron was thinking further than that.

 

And JP/SA just seem to be Ron in female form. The more things change...

[peachmangosteen]

Am I the only one who appreciates GV's portrayal of the adult Lucky and the chemistry he had with Rebecca Herbst (among others) despite Guza's attempts to portray him as a loser because he wanted a normal life?

 

I too loved GV's Lucky. I will never not be pissed about how much he got shit on for fucking Jason.

 

I look at these two women now and think, good lord you two have serious self-esteem issues and need therapy. STAT.

 

And that's it. The sheer fact that they both think Jason is worthy of this shit means they both need intense psychological help. 

 

I can almost truly enjoy the Crimson scenes with clueless dilettante Nina and Maxie bonding, the first time Michelle Stafford has clicked on this show, ever, until I remember everything Nina has done for the past two years.

 

That's the rub with everything. I'll be like ok this is kinda fun I enjoy this but then I remember all the shit and go into a rage blackout. Sigh.

Edited November 20, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[tvgoddess]

I too loved GV's Lucky. I will never not be pissed about how much he got shit on for fucking Jason.

 

I read this a totally different way.

[peachmangosteen]

I read this a totally different way.

 

LMAO! Yea, poor word choice/placement from me there. But that might've been a better story.

Edited November 20, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Francie]

I too loved GV's Lucky. I will never not be pissed about how much he got shit on for fucking Jason.

Oops, tvgoddess and I are like-minded!

Edited November 20, 2015 by Francie