NFL Thread

[Silver Raven]

Quote

I also hope that the 49ers enjoy having Kyle Shanahan as their new Head Coach & him bring even more failure to the organization as he did in the Super Bowl.

I think the Atlanta defense can take the blame for that, not their offense.

[Bastet]

20 hours ago, mojoween said:

Although I cannot imagine Tommy having his current success against LT ...

Oh my, I'd pay a nice little chunk of change to watch LT drop Tom Brady on his ass just once.

[Minneapple]

3 hours ago, Jx223 said:

According to ESPN Steve Sarkisian has just agreed to be the Falcons new OC.

So how many people you think are hanging around Saban at the Bama football offices today? It must have cleared out pretty quick.

[xaxat]

So apparently Gronk was Gronk at the parade. I have no problem with that.

But it does bother me that he was the Pats' nominee for the Walter Payton Award. I'm sure he does some charity stuff, pretty much every player does. But if he promoted his charity as much as his booze cruises' I could actually take that nomination seriously. 

[caracas1914]

I personally think Gronk is on thin ice, in that as the next season goes with his questionable health and longevity; he isn't going to get his contract thrown out and given a new negotiated extension that's for sure.

Too many questions about his perceived fragility.  

So while I don't think the Pats are necessarily going to try to trade him off season, I don't think he's as indispensable as some think...

[BitterApple]

44 minutes ago, caracas1914 said:

I personally think Gronk is on thin ice, in that as the next season goes with his questionable health and longevity; he isn't going to get his contract thrown out and given a new negotiated extension that's for sure.

Too many questions about his perceived fragility.  

So while I don't think the Pats are necessarily going to try to trade him off season, I don't think he's as indispensable as some think...

I don't think he is either. One thing about Belichick, it's strictly business with him. He doesn't give two craps how much of a fan favorite you are or what you've done in the past, if he feels you aren't what the team needs then you're gone. He got rid of Chandler Jones and Jaime Collins and didn't skip a beat, ffs. Gronk is an undeniable talent and X-factor, but if he can't stay healthy he won't be in a Patriots uniform for long.

[merylinkid]

19 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

He got rid of Chandler Jones and Jaime Collins and didn't skip a beat,

Those guys?   He got rid of Ty Law who was practically considered a Saint in Foxboro.   And that was after their first or second Super Bowl before everyone understood the "Belichek Way."   

[ganesh]

The nanosecond that Gronk can't contribute, he's out. There's no question.

[Jx223]

2 hours ago, Minneapple said:

So how many people you think are hanging around Saban at the Bama football offices today? It must have cleared out pretty quick.

I had heard some reports that Steve and Nick weren't seeing eye to eye on things. I wonder who will be Alabama's new OC now. Chip Kelly is one name I am seeing people bring up as an option.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Jx223

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

...Gronk

...it does bother me that he was the Pats' nominee for the Walter Payton Award. I'm sure he does some charity stuff, pretty much every player does.

That got me wondering what sort of charity work Aaron Hernandez performed.

[MargeGunderson]

On 2/7/2017 at 6:02 PM, merylinkid said:

Those guys?   He got rid of Ty Law who was practically considered a Saint in Foxboro.   And that was after their first or second Super Bowl before everyone understood the "Belichek Way."   

And Vince Wilfork (sniff) and Wes Welker. The only players Belichek has kept for more emotional/sentimental reasons were Junior Seau and a Teddy Bruschi. 

I wouldn't miss Gronk if he was gone. Too injury prone. Has he played a full season?

Edited February 9, 2017 by MargeGunderson

[stealinghome]

On 2/7/2017 at 5:42 PM, BitterApple said:

I don't think he is either. One thing about Belichick, it's strictly business with him. He doesn't give two craps how much of a fan favorite you are or what you've done in the past, if he feels you aren't what the team needs then you're gone. He got rid of Chandler Jones and Jaime Collins and didn't skip a beat, ffs. Gronk is an undeniable talent and X-factor, but if he can't stay healthy he won't be in a Patriots uniform for long.

The only reason I can see Belichick giving Gronk a tad more of a leash than some other players would get is that it would SUCK to let go of him prematurely and then have him come back to bite the Pats in the ass as a member of an opposing team. Having him might be no more important than keeping him away from other teams. But I agree in suspecting Gronk is on thinner ice around Foxboro than many think. This season put paid to the "they can't win a Super Bowl without him" narrative and he's a real pain in the ass for the franchise at times.

In part, what Gronk and the Pats probably both have to come to terms with is that he just can't make it through a 16-game season, so needs to sit out regularly/have a very managed workload. And his compensation needs to reflect that he is on the one hand a great talent, but on the other fragile as fuck and often not available to the team.

Edited February 8, 2017 by stealinghome

[ganesh]

They could just as easily trade him to a team that they are highly unlikely to face too, if they were to get rid of him. He'd still warrant a reasonable draft pick, and they can make it a conditional pick based on performance. 

[xaxat]

Gronk is coming off his third back surgery. He may have good or even great years ahead of him, but it wouldn't surprise me if Belichick was already thinking about moving on. The guy is committed to getting rid of guys before their declining years. 

[loriro]

On 2/7/2017 at 5:02 PM, merylinkid said:

Those guys?   He got rid of Ty Law who was practically considered a Saint in Foxboro.   And that was after their first or second Super Bowl before everyone understood the "Belichek Way."   

And Lawyer Malloy (one of a young Tom Brady's best friends on the team) and Richard Seymour and Darrell Revis (which, while prescient in retrospect was, at the time, felt to be a potential fatal blow to the secondary). Yeah... there are a lot of great players in Belichick's wake. A year too early is better than a year too late in his eyes.

I agree that Gronk isn't as indispensable as many may have previously thought, primarily because of his injury history. But I also think that his family's (particularly Paps Gronk's) meddling in the teams management of Gronks injuries is likely getting tiresome. I mean, I get that they are being protective but it seems to have gone past simply that and into "here's how it's going to be done whether you like it or not" territory (especially the "joint statements" that are very uncharacteristic for the Pats), which I think BB will have a low tolerance for. 

That said, from all accounts, Gronk really is great in the community and does a TON of work in the community. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by loriro

[Fukui San]

I think Belichick would move Gronk for a second round pick at this point. Love the guy, but he's likely not healthy for you in the playoffs.  

Makes me wonder who will "know" first when it's Brady's time  Maybe just after some lackluster training camp session they'll look at each other and nod, knowingly, using their Vulcan mind link to transmit all of the information needed.

[ElDosEquis]

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 6:20 PM, Constantinople said:

That got me wondering what sort of charity work Aaron Hernandez performed.

He donated to the coroner's office.

---------

 

TB's lost jersey was found,

There were 6000 guys wearing one at the parade.

[MarkHB]

On 2/7/2017 at 6:53 PM, MargeGunderson said:

And Vince Wilfork (sniff) and Wes Welker. The only players Belichek has kept for more emotional/sentimental reasons were Junior Seau and a Teddy Bruschi. 

Bruschi still played at a high level until he had that stroke or whatever it was and had to retire. BB practically had tears in his eyes at that press conference; he called Tedy a "perfect player" and I don't think even Tom will get that.

[basiltherat]

It will be really interesting to see what Grumpy Gus (Bellicheck) will do when Pretty Boy Tom starts falling apart.  Will Tom retire gracefully?  Will Bill have to fire him?  Will they form a suicide pact and jump off together?  Tune in tomorrow.

[stealinghome]

Honestly, I wonder how much Peyton's experience last year might have changed Brady's approach to retiring. I know for a long time people were all "Brady will play until his arm falls off," but I'm sure he looked at Peyton last year and was like OH HELL NO, that's not going to be me. I think Brady would walk away before getting to that point.

[BitterApple]

19 hours ago, basiltherat said:

It will be really interesting to see what Grumpy Gus (Bellicheck) will do when Pretty Boy Tom starts falling apart.  Will Tom retire gracefully?  Will Bill have to fire him?  Will they form a suicide pact and jump off together?  Tune in tomorrow.

Lmfaoooo! I'm picturing Tom and Bill standing on top of the scoreboard at Gillette looking deep into each other's eyes as Tom says "you jump, I jump, right?" a la Rose and Jack on the Titanic. 

[Jordan27]

Super Bowl Sunday was the one of the worst sports experiences of my life and for more reasons that any have stated here.

My big difference than most is that I am a Falcons fan(since I was a kid) and also a Pats fan.  Been a NE fan since 2000.  I lived and died with the Pats winning the SB's and losing them.  But, the Falcons are still my home team, so I was rooting for them.  And the Pats have multiple SB's and the Falcons none.  

So, it seemed like a fun SB.  My Falcons get their first SB trophy or Brady gets his fifth.  My one hope was that it was a good game and no one was a goat at the end(miss an easy FG, drop a winning TD pass, etc.)

But, who could have seen that coming...25 point and blow it.....Noooooo!!, are you serious?!?!?

There are three types of losses...

1.  The other team is just better...the Falcons lost to Denver in the SB in the 90's.  They were the better team.  I was disappointed, but tipped my hat to them and was over it quickly.

2.  You are supposed to win and lose.  This is crushing.  The Pats lost twice to NY and in nauseating ways.

3.  You have a big lead and blow it.  The worst.  It can be haunting.  The Red Sox, Yankees, Braves and Golden State have experienced this in Championships Series and it lingers for a long time.

It's the 3rd quarter and the Falcons have a 28-3 lead.  There are four things that have to happen for the Falcons to lose.

1.  The Pats have to play good.

2.  The Falcons have to play bad.

3.  There has to be a miracle catch.

4.  And the Falcons have to be stupid.

With that 28-3 lead, the Falcons run the ball only four times the rest of the game?  Really? Even with the Pats finally scoring a TD and FG with under 10 minutes to go...the Falcons had the ball with a 28-12 lead.  Here is where the stupid starts...

With third down and one to go on about the 40, they opt to pass it.  The RB misses his block and Ryan gets sacked and fumbles.  What were they thinking?  Run the ball, if you don't get it, kick it and they have to go the length of the field twice with under 8 minutes left.  So the Pats score.

To the Falcons credit, they moved the ball and Julio Jones makes an incredible catch that at the time seemed to save the SB for the Falcons.  With first down at the 22 with 4 minutes left, run the ball three times and run the clock down or make the Pats use their time outs.  Then, kick a FG.  In these scenarios, the Falcons lead by 11 with about 2:30 left and the Pats have two timeouts left or there is about 3:30 left and the Pats have no timeouts.  I really like my chances. 

But, nooo, the Falcons have to pass three times, get sacked, get a penalty and an incompletion.   I have yet to hear the Head Coach or the Offensive Co. explain this, but I heard Shanahan said he liked their matchups.  What?  Who cares about your matchups.  Run the ball, win the game.  It's called strategy.

I think Shanahan became overly arrogant about his offense.  Yep, best the in the league.  But, he played the last quarter like we needed to be passing a lot.  We didn't.

I haven't seen arrogance that bad since the Clinton campaign decided to hardly run in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.  And it lead to a crushing defeat as did this one.

Coaches always tell players to think and play smart.  You hate it when a defensive player makes a late hit to keep a drive going when the defense has made a stop.  So, here we have a coach not being smart.

And yep, the Pats get their miracle play and win the game. 

I cut the game off just as soon as the Pats won.  Even though I like them, I couldn't stand to watch the celebration.  The announcers were going to make this all about Brady and Belicheck,  when in reality, this was all about the Falcons blowing the biggest lead in SB history.  

Our state of Georgia is upset and in mourning this week.  

We had the Super Bowl trophy in our hands and it was snatched away in the most mind numbing way ever.

Good grief.

[Ohwell]

I feel for you Falcons fans.  I really do.

[morriss]

I think the Falcons made the biggest mistake by letting Shanahan interview for 49'ers job before the season was even done.   He should have had his full concentration on the Super Bowl.

[DrSpaceman73]

Another perspective on the workers compensation case in Illinois, which contradicts much of what the NFLPA is claiming.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-bears-nflpa-haugh-spt-0212-20170211-column.html

[DrSpaceman73]

17 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I feel for you Falcons fans.  I really do.

I do feel for the fans. 

I don't feel bad for the team.  Or Matt Ryan.  Just blew his chance to join an elite group of QBs to win a SB.  ANd blew it spectacularly. 

Unless he does manage to win a SB in the future, which in my mind is hard to imagine happening, he will be forever known and remembered primarily for this game and blowing a 25 point lead in the SB.  Along with the rest of the team, it was not just him, but he made some just stupidly bad decisions in the 4th quarter, many of them. 

[Silver Raven]

Why is everybody blaming Atlanta's offense for losing when it was the defense that folded like a cheap suit?

[merylinkid]

The defense didn't fold.   They were worn out.   You can't run up and down the field like they did for as long as they did and expect them to be perky.   The problem was, the offense got off the field so quick by throwing the damn ball instead of running, the defense didn't have time to recover.    They were just out there too damn long.

[ganesh]

Throwing on 3rd down, when just running and punting would have taken a lot of time off the clock. Ryan taking a sack instead of throwing the ball away also knocked them out of fg range iirc. 

2 hours ago, merylinkid said:

They were worn out.  

Defenses are always at a disadvantage. If any offense is zipping the ball all over the place, any defense is just going to run out of gas. There's a lot to say about a team who can get a quick score, but being able to extend drives is so valuable because defenses get worn out. Once the pass rush is basically gone, the offense has a huge advantage. 

[Fukui San]

Even running the clock down on every play alone might have been enough to win the game. They were snapping the ball with 15+ seconds on the clock. 

[stealinghome]

Agreed. The Atlanta defense was on the field for 40 (!!!) minutes. ANY defense is going to be exhausted by that.

plus, Atlanta has a phenomenal offense and somewhere between average and above-average D (statistically speaking). Everyone knew going in that the offense was going to have to score a LOT and win the game for the Falcons. And yet the offense only scored 21 points, and could only muster a single TD in the second half. Yes, the Pats probably had a better D than Atlanta had faced in the recent past, but still.

Edited February 12, 2017 by stealinghome

[mojoween]

The NFL Network is replaying all of the Pats SB's and while I generally have no interest in any of that garbage, SB XLII and XLVI are marvelous.

There really is nothing more satisfying than watching Tom Brady frustrated, confused and flat on his ass.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

The NFL Network is replaying all of the Pats SB's and while I generally have no interest in any of that garbage, SB XLII and XLVI are marvelous.

There really is nothing more satisfying than watching Tom Brady frustrated, confused and flat on his ass.

I recommend watching the AFC Championship Game from 2013. Brady being out-thought, outplayed and left looking painfully ordinary by a Ravens defense that really hadn't been that great all season, was so very satisfying. Especially for Ravens fans who had endured the heartbreaking loss in the same game the previous year.

Quote

Defenses are always at a disadvantage. If any offense is zipping the ball all over the place, any defense is just going to run out of gas. There's a lot to say about a team who can get a quick score, but being able to extend drives is so valuable because defenses get worn out. Once the pass rush is basically gone, the offense has a huge advantage. 

This is why I hate the 'bend, don't break' defensive philosophy that seems to be endemic in the NFL at the moment. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you keep bending (letting teams extend drives and wear your defensive players out) then eventually you're going to break. I've seen it happen so often with my Ravens, and with other teams. Brady is a master of exploiting it too, because the Patriots' passing game is all about short passes anyway, and with teams allowing short completions as a part of their actual scheme, he's just going to feast on them.

The Falcons did a good job in the first half, with their secondary flying about the field. But as soon as their offense started to stutter, their defense was spending too long on the field, and they lost that energy and speed. But still, I will always prefer a hard-hitting, aggressive defense that is willing to challenge their opponents.

[ganesh]

Please give me the credit if you're going to quote me. 

[Ohwell]

9 hours ago, ganesh said:

Please give me the credit if you're going to quote me. 

Ok then.

[ganesh]

Though I do agree with the criticism of the bend, don't break idea. 

[Popples]

New York Giants release Victor Cruz.

[Jx223]

A few days ago I had also read about Josh McCown being released from the Browns and the Seahawks signing Blair Walsh. I am interested in seeing what other players will be released/picked up/traded as teams get ready for the draft and next season.

[Carey]

Meh on Victor Cruz.  It sucks to see him go, but it's one of those cases where that had to happen early as opposed to late.  I think Ben and Eli will be able to co-exist better in Year 2, while they could get better defensively (they were great but not late 2000s/very early 2010s great)

[xaxat]

5 hours ago, Jx223 said:

A few days ago I had also read about Josh McCown being released from the Browns

The Browns cut a QB?

After last season I would think they would go five deep on the depth chart this year.

[voiceover]

Too absorbed in the KU game to pay attention, but I came running in as soon as I heard.

 @mojoween! are you bummed, resigned, sad, unsurprised, (indifferent?) about Victor?

Edited February 14, 2017 by voiceover
I thought of more possible reax

[mojoween]

5 hours ago, voiceover said:

Too absorbed in the KU game to pay attention, but I came running in as soon as I heard.

 @mojoween! are you bummed, resigned, sad, unsurprised, (indifferent?) about Victor?

I am sad and resigned.  I knew it was coming, and his health was a great concern, but I still didn't want it to happen.  It makes good business but it still sucks.

[caracas1914]

There were the NFL's 13 top ranking defenses (per yards allowed) this season:

Houston Texans, Arizona Cardinals, Minnesota Vikings, Denver Broncos, Seattle Seahawks, Jacksonville Jaguars, Baltimore Ravens,New England Patriots, Los Angeles Rams, New York Giants, New York Jets, Pittsburgh Steelers, Philadelphia Eagles,

OF those teams, the Falcons played ,including playoffs,6 teams, (Seahawks twice) and their record was 3-4.  If you add the Chargers, their record against the top 16 defenses in the NFL was 3-5.

In addition their divisional foes ( played twice) were Carolina, Tampa Bay and New Orleans, not  exactly defensive powerhouses.  They also played 32nd  ranked SF FortyNiners and  26th ranked Oakland Raiders, bottom quadrant of defenses.

I"m not saying they weren't a very good offense, but it's surprising how as much as the Patriots  defense was waved off as the result of weaker opponents the Falcons IMO weren't perceived the same way.  Granted they were impressive against the Seahawks and Packers in the playoffs,  never the less....

Edited February 15, 2017 by caracas1914

[Carey]

Quote

I"m not saying they weren't a very good offense, but it's surprising how as much as the Patriots  defense was waved off as the result of weaker opponents the Falcons IMO weren't perceived the same way.  Granted they were impressive against the Seahawks and Packers in the playoffs,  never the less....

And Atlanta got the weakened version of the Seahawks & Packers (as opposed to the 2013-2014 Seattle & 2010-2011 Green Bay team).  We'll see how they'll do against those squads in 2017 if both are healthy

[King of Birds]

Oh this movie will just go to the top of the want-to-see list with the NFL group here...

Quote

EXCLUSIVE: A new book and feature film project about Tom Brady, who has won more Super Bowls than any quarterback in NFL history, is on its way. The Brady book and film will chronicle the New England Patriots superstar’s come-from-behind win in Super Bowl LI, but it’s not going to shy away from controversy and will include the team’s battle to overcome the Deflategate debacle in 2014, follow Brady’s fall from grace and then his triumphant return to lead the Patriots to his fifth world championship.

[mojoween]

OH MY GOD I CAN'T WAIT TO NOT SEE THAT.

Edited February 16, 2017 by mojoween

[Bastet]

I would watch Showgirls, Waterworld, Ishtar, Howard the Duck, Glitter, and Gigli back-to-back before I'd see that movie.

[King of Birds]

I was gonna offer @mojoween like, $20 to go see it in Imax and review it for us in 2020 or whenever it comes out.

[mojoween]

Twenty dollars?!?  Add a few zeroes and I might go to the theater and see something else.

[ganesh]

My student used Tom Brady's *moat at his house* as part of her homework assignment.