S06.E07: Wanna Love You

[monagatuna]

Pretty sure Jo met Vee during his "rap video" filmed in 2011, so they've been together approximately 4 years.

 

While I wouldn't begin to harsh on single parents, I still think making a conscious decision to bring a life onto the planet with someone but not being "ready" for marriage is a little...well...backwards. Marriage can be reversed, but children are forever. I'm not old fashioned, but maybe I'm just old.

[truelovekiss]

Pretty sure Jo met Vee during his "rap video" filmed in 2011, so they've been together approximately 4 years.

While I wouldn't begin to harsh on single parents, I still think making a conscious decision to bring a life onto the planet with someone but not being "ready" for marriage is a little...well...backwards. Marriage can be reversed, but children are forever. I'm not old fashioned, but maybe I'm just old.

I agree with you. I know a lot of people say they don't need the "piece of paper" to prove they love each other. They're right, a marriage license does not equal love. But like it or not, this is a society that values law and documentation. A marriage license is a practical matter. Marriage offers stability and commitment. It ties two people together legally, as each other's next of kin, heir, power of attorney, etc. Romantic, I know. While most people look forward to huge elaborate weddings, what does a marriage license cost now, like $50? I think if two people are ready to plan a baby together, why not shell out a few bucks and spend a couple of hours at city hall to sort of tie up some loose ends.

[monagatuna]

I agree with you. I know a lot of people say they don't need the "piece of paper" to prove they love each other. They're right, a marriage license does not equal love. But like it or not, this is a society that values law and documentation. A marriage license is a practical matter. Marriage offers stability and commitment. It ties two people together legally, as each other's next of kin, heir, power of attorney, etc. Romantic, I know. While most people look forward to huge elaborate weddings, what does a marriage license cost now, like $50? I think if two people are ready to plan a baby together, why not shell out a few bucks and spend a couple of hours at city hall to sort of tie up some loose ends.

Yeah, exactly. Of course, I'm a lawyer, so the piece of paper is the real value of it to me. Romance doesn't need a piece of paper, but at that point, I just feel like, if you're looking for a commitment but are not sure, why not choose the thing that's actually reversible?

 

Then again, I don't want kids, so I may be a bit biased.

[FozzyBear]

Yeah, exactly. Of course, I'm a lawyer, so the piece of paper is the real value of it to me. Romance doesn't need a piece of paper, but at that point, I just feel like, if you're looking for a commitment but are not sure, why not choose the thing that's actually reversible?

Then again, I don't want kids, so I may be a bit biased.

I don't have particularly strong feelings about being married before you have kids. I know couples that never got married or got married years after having kids, just as I know couples who had a big church wedding before even spending a night together. As far as I can tell there isn't a lot of rhyme or reason to why some couples break up and some don't. HOWEVER! However, I stand flabbergasted when people start a family with someone that they aren't sure they want to spend their life with. If you're just sort of against the idea of marriage in general or something, that's one thing. If you want to get married someday, but maybe not to the person you're starting a family with? That I do not understand. Accidents happen and all, but to actively start a family with someone you're ambivalent toward? I don't get that. So anyway, I hope I'm wrong, but I get this vibe with Joe and Vee. I think he hasn't asked her to marry him because he is't sure he wants to marry her. They don't strike me as the types that are just against the institution of marriage in general and they're not teenagers like he was with Kali, so I hate to be a fuddy duddy Joe, but when are you going to make an honest woman out of Vee?

[Scorpiosunshine]

Regardless of age (teen or adult), unfortunately, there are girls who will make up lies about being on the pill or using contraception. There are guys who will push their girlfriend to have a baby for selfish reasons. I have been over this before and I won't change my mind. It is an ugly term but sadly, there are ugly people, like Kailyn, who will throw aside birth control to become pregnant.

In that case, the guy should pull a condom out of his wallet and put it on his penis if he doesn't want a "trap" baby. Problem solved. He doesn't have to worry about her lying. To me, that's why trap babies don't exist. Edited August 23, 2015 by Scorpiosunshine

[DoctorWhovian]

Today was a shit day. Worked for 15 hours. Guy of 8 months completed dropped off the face of the earth (talked a few days ago, everything was fine, today, without warning, he has completely removed himself from all social media and hasn't responded to any messages). I stop at Jack in the Box, pick up some tacos and curly fries, and settle into bed.

 

Then I remember that I haven't watched Teen Mom 2 yet this week. And it opens with the glorious Nathan. Day redeemed.

[GreatKazu]

Today was a shit day. Worked for 15 hours. Guy of 8 months completed dropped off the face of the earth (talked a few days ago, everything was fine, today, without warning, he has completely removed himself from all social media and hasn't responded to any messages). I stop at Jack in the Box, pick up some tacos and curly fries, and settle into bed.

 

Then I remember that I haven't watched Teen Mom 2 yet this week. And it opens with the glorious Nathan. Day redeemed.

I send you a distant online hug and look forward to your snark on this latest episode. May this shitty day soon pass and you move on to better days.

[Maharincess]

I agree with you. I know a lot of people say they don't need the "piece of paper" to prove they love each other. They're right, a marriage license does not equal love. But like it or not, this is a society that values law and documentation. A marriage license is a practical matter. Marriage offers stability and commitment. It ties two people together legally, as each other's next of kin, heir, power of attorney, etc. Romantic, I know. While most people look forward to huge elaborate weddings, what does a marriage license cost now, like $50? I think if two people are ready to plan a baby together, why not shell out a few bucks and spend a couple of hours at city hall to sort of tie up some loose ends.

Some people just don't care, like me. I've been in a relationship that's lasted almost 3 decades. We are committed, managomous, happy, get along great and have a beautiful family. We couldn't be more "tied together" if we were bound with ropes, and we couldn't care less what society values. We are also very stable and committed.

We've done our living trusts and powers of attorney.

We've lasted longer than every single marriage amongst our friends and family, including our parents.

I have respect that marriage is very important to a lot of people, its just not important to us at all.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Maharincess

[missy jo]

Marriage or not, I'm flabbergasted at how cavalier these girls and guys are about bringing new life into the world. "Oh well, just another human being with wants and needs - whatevs, YOLO!" 
 ​

[cheatincheetos]

Dear lord. I hoped I was seeing things. Why would anyone wear something a top like that with their own last name, much less some Teen Mom's?

Their rabid minions would, if nobody else. They would eat broken glass if Jenelle declared it a weight loss supplement.

[BravoAddict72]

I feel sorry for Vee. I know a lot of people aren't going to like this but I have to say it. You don't really know what you are getting into when you get into a situation like this. I knew when I started dating my husband that he had a child that was born when he was in high school. He never tried to hide it and I went in with my eyes open. But as much as you think you are prepared for it there are times when it can just hit you over the head with it. After we were married and had a child, who is 13 years younger than his other child, I was offered an amazing job offer many states away. I couldn't accept it because his ex tried to fight it in court and he couldn't leave his child. So when Vee has her baby,and wants to move back home what is going to happen. Joe already said they need to do it for Issac. So does she leave the man she loves, take their baby and move away to be a single mother? Or stay where she doesn't want to be to stay with him. It is a no win situation for her and I don't think she has really thought it all the way through yet.

[HeySandyStrange]

 

Accidents happen and all, but to actively start a family with someone you're ambivalent toward? I don't get that. So anyway, I hope I'm wrong, but I get this vibe with Joe and Vee. I think he hasn't asked her to marry him because he is't sure he wants to marry her.

 

Not that we have much to go on, since Jo and Vee aren't featured often on the show, but I also haven't seen a super tight bond between them. I've also gotten the feeling that Vee is way more into the relationship then Jo seems to be. And I'm not some prude about marriage--hell, a few years ago I would've laughed at the idea of marriage, personally. But I agree, marriage license or not, it still seems like a good idea to be really committed to each other before a couple starts procreating. I know, perfect world scenario and one that most of the couples haven't followed, but still. And I really feel for Vee because she comes off as a pretty sweet person, but I really don't envy her having to deal with living next to Kail's toxic bs and having her own baby to take care of.

[lezlers]

Gigi is still her friend and on the show she was the one who introduced Kail to Javi. She was also Kail's roommate for a while and rumor was that they kind of had a thing going between them. http://hollywoodlife.com/2012/01/23/kailyn-lowry-teen-mom-2-girlfriend/

I think she is friends with both Javi and Kail. Unfortunately I've visited her instagram account a while ago and all her friends are still the same. Including gigi. And the manly looking one. And peach. And that other girl I don't know her name of. Still all the same girls for years now. The black guy (Mike) moved away and I read somewhere that they were still in touch so it is not that she fought him out of her life. I think we all assume the worst when we still only see portions of these peoples live. She sucks at being a spouse though. I think Chelsea also has some of the same people around. Jenelle and Leah have both that one friend around from back then. Jenelle has the one that was sleeping with her boyfriend and Leah has that girl that went out of town and got married.

 

I think a lot of posters get a little "bitch eating crackers" over some of these girls.  Kail is awful in a lot of ways, but not everything she does and says is evil or wrong or bitchy.  One thing I've noticed about Kail is that she's maintained a lot of long term friendships. She's definitely a shitty partner, but she seems to be a pretty decent friend.  

Pretty sure Jo met Vee during his "rap video" filmed in 2011, so they've been together approximately 4 years.

 

While I wouldn't begin to harsh on single parents, I still think making a conscious decision to bring a life onto the planet with someone but not being "ready" for marriage is a little...well...backwards. Marriage can be reversed, but children are forever. I'm not old fashioned, but maybe I'm just old.

 

This, a thousand times!!  If you're against marriage period, that's one thing.  But not being married because you're not "ready" yet purposefully getting pregnant is just dumb.  And immature.  

Some people just don't care, like me. I've been in a relationship that's lasted almost 3 decades. We are committed, managomous, happy, get along great and have a beautiful family. We couldn't be more "tied together" if we were bound with ropes, and we couldn't care less what society values. We are also very stable and committed.

We've done our living trusts and powers of attorney.

We've lasted longer than every single marriage amongst our friends and family, including our parents.

I have respect that marriage is very important to a lot of people, its just not important to us at all.

 

That's what everyone is saying though.  Everyone who has commented about the backwardsness of starting a family without being married has specifically said this doesn't apply to people who aren't interested in marriage in general.  So we're not talking about your situation.

[BitterApple]

Marriage or not, I'm flabbergasted at how cavalier these girls and guys are about bringing new life into the world. "Oh well, just another human being with wants and needs - whatevs, YOLO!"

​

I think that's what kills me as well. These people aren't sure if they want to be together for the long term, but have no problem bringing children into the world, as if a child ranks lower on the commitment scale.

[GreatKazu]

I think that's what kills me as well. These people aren't sure if they want to be together for the long term, but have no problem bringing children into the world, as if a child ranks lower on the commitment scale.

And there are people like Kail who don't even marry for love or what they may feel could be a potential partner long term, but merely for benefits.

 

 

Dear lord. I hoped I was seeing things. Why would anyone wear something a top like that with their own last name, much less some Teen Mom's?

Kail is advertising, plain and simple. It is a cheesy clothing line where one buys a t-shirt with an option of varying "Lowry" sayings. I didn't bother to look at her entire clothing line, but if there isn't already, she should have t-shirts that read "BENEFITS"  inside a big heart.

[zenme]

Anyone else catch Kailyn telling her friends that, basically, she's just in mood to fight with Javi?  And one of the friends, I can't remember which one one, agreed. 

 

I think a lot of posters get a little "bitch eating crackers" over some of these girls.  Kail is awful in a lot of ways, but not everything she does and says is evil or wrong or bitchy.  One thing I've noticed about Kail is that she's maintained a lot of long term friendships. She's definitely a shitty partner, but she seems to be a pretty decent friend.

 

I've yet to see this other side of Kail, this decent friend.  She basically bitched Sterling out because SHE herself was a pain in the ass on the trip.  When her friends were doing her a favor and helping her move (on a previous season), if she had a whip, she would have cracked it.  I'm not saying she's Hitler, I'm just not seeing this "good friend" yet, that others may see.  Her friends are immature as well, so they may not know better. 

 

Speaking of Sterling, when she was telling Kailyn that her mother said her time was ruined I was thinking that her mother should have straight up told Kailyn, "You handle your issues with your husband, meanwhile, my friends and I are going to enjoy our trip.  If you want to join us, don't bring your drama on our outings." 

[HausfrauoftheDE]

I feel sorry for Vee. I know a lot of people aren't going to like this but I have to say it. You don't really know what you are getting into when you get into a situation like this. I knew when I started dating my husband that he had a child that was born when he was in high school. He never tried to hide it and I went in with my eyes open. But as much as you think you are prepared for it there are times when it can just hit you over the head with it. After we were married and had a child, who is 13 years younger than his other child, I was offered an amazing job offer many states away. I couldn't accept it because his ex tried to fight it in court and he couldn't leave his child. So when Vee has her baby,and wants to move back home what is going to happen. Joe already said they need to do it for Issac. So does she leave the man she loves, take their baby and move away to be a single mother? Or stay where she doesn't want to be to stay with him. It is a no win situation for her and I don't think she has really thought it all the way through yet.

And if it doesn't work out and Jo & Vee break up, he may not let her move back to her family (out of state), and she'd be stuck in DE.

[monagatuna]

I think that's what kills me as well. These people aren't sure if they want to be together for the long term, but have no problem bringing children into the world, as if a child ranks lower on the commitment scale.

This is really what I was getting at. I get that some people don't want to get married--I am certainly leaning towards never doing it myself--and if I really wanted to be a mom I wouldn't wait around for a ring. I'm just talking about people who DO want to get married, but "aren't ready" to get married to their current partner, yet they're ready to chain themselves to that person eternally with a child. Accidents happen, but a lot of these ladies' second and third kids were planned.

[truelovekiss]

I feel sorry for Vee. I know a lot of people aren't going to like this but I have to say it. You don't really know what you are getting into when you get into a situation like this. I knew when I started dating my husband that he had a child that was born when he was in high school. He never tried to hide it and I went in with my eyes open. But as much as you think you are prepared for it there are times when it can just hit you over the head with it. After we were married and had a child, who is 13 years younger than his other child, I was offered an amazing job offer many states away. I couldn't accept it because his ex tried to fight it in court and he couldn't leave his child. So when Vee has her baby,and wants to move back home what is going to happen. Joe already said they need to do it for Issac. So does she leave the man she loves, take their baby and move away to be a single mother? Or stay where she doesn't want to be to stay with him. It is a no win situation for her and I don't think she has really thought it all the way through yet.

I agree with all of this. I feel like she was in a tough spot when Jo said he was moving to Delaware, and basically said he was going with or without her. I feel for her, she chose Jo over everything and everyone else in her life, and I think part of her reasoning for having a baby is because she thinks she'll have equal clout with Kail, and then she can start calling the shots.

[ghoulina]

Anyone else catch Kailyn telling her friends that, basically, she's just in mood to fight with Javi?  And one of the friends, I can't remember which one one, agreed.

 

Yup. And her stupid friends were like, "That's just the way you are. Always have been." So basically it's up to Javi to change HIS behavior, but Kail can go right on being a bitch.

 

I've yet to see this other side of Kail, this decent friend.  She basically bitched Sterling out because SHE herself was a pain in the ass on the trip.

 

She was awful to Sterling. The girl wasn't even being mean when telling Kail that her mom was disappointed about what went down on the trip. But Kail just totally flipped her shit, like she always does. Was Sterling in FL? 

 

Also, let's not forget her Bridezilla ways and demands she was making on her bridal party.

[WhosThatGirl]

Also, let's not forget her Bridezilla ways and demands she was making on her bridal party.

 

 

Yup. It also seemed like she was trying to alienate the bridal party members who were Javi's family. If I can recall, it seemed like they were the ones who had questions or concerns and she would defect them over to her friends because she didn't want to deal with them. I believe at one point they just wanted to help more and Kail was distancing herself from them, but I think they at times during that fiasco they wanted to be closer to her and she was outright avoiding them.  I think and I've said this many times, Kail likes it when things are bad because she can then be a martyr of some kind. Don't get me wrong, I understand that maybe she has an issue letting people in due to her past, plenty of people do, but I think she also likes it this way., 

[truelovekiss]

Also, let's not forget her Bridezilla ways and demands she was making on her bridal party.

PURPLE EARRINGS...

[lezlers]

I made my statement about Kail being a decent friend based on the fact that she's  maintained her friendships over a long period of time.  If she was that shitty of a friend, she wouldn't have the same core group of friends for 6+ years.  That's not to say she's perfect (and in a show like this they're only going to show the dramatic times anyway) just that I don't see her holding a gun to any of her friends heads forcing them to keep being her friend so she's got to be doing something right.  On that note, Charles Manson had a lot of "friends" too.  ;)

Edited August 23, 2015 by lezlers

[GreatKazu]

And if it doesn't work out and Jo & Vee break up, he may not let her move back to her family (out of state), and she'd be stuck in DE.

Unlike Kail, Jo would not control where Vee goes to live. All he ever asked for was to be able to spend time with son. I imagine the same holds for his daughter.

 

The only true friend of Kail's whom I liked was Micheal (?). That young man told her like it was and didn't make any bones about it. He was straight up telling the truth to Kail. I miss him.

 

 

I'm just talking about people who DO want to get married, but "aren't ready" to get married to their current partner, yet they're ready to chain themselves to that person eternally with a child. Accidents happen, but a lot of these ladies' second and third kids were planned.

Right. Kail was not going to go to all the trouble of having a child if she wasn't going to get a marriage out of it. I believe Javi did the "right thing" by Kail only after she beat him and shook his head around.  Maci wants marriage, but Taylor won't give in. Her plan failed. That is different than someone who clearly doesn't care for marriage, but doesn't mind having children.

[DoctorWhovian]

I don't believe in the term "trap baby". It makes it sound like men have no control over their sperm. It just ends up inside some woman without their knowledge and oops! Lol. I realize it happens like when a married woman who is trusted for years and has agreed to no family suddenly stops her pill or a man that sabotages his partners birth control but these people (especially 16 year olds!) that hook up after knowing each other a few months (or nights) better both protect themselves or face the consequences equally.

 

I currently have an IUD. If I sleep with a guy and he's like oh cool we don't have to use condoms (any issues of STDs aside), and I get pregnant because oh whoops turns out I don't actually have an IUD and I lied, I am a crazy bitch for lying but he was not trapped because he believed me without taking any account for his own sperm. Men have equal responsibility in preventing pregnancy, and that includes doing what they can (i.e., using condoms) even when their partner says they are on birth control. If they choose to believe, and do nothing to confirm (even as simple as googling, say, does PCOS mean you can't get pregnant) or be involved in the regular use of birth control, they are not trapped. If you are not in a close enough relationship to feel comfortable confirming, being part of daily reminders if oral contraceptives are being used, being part of doctor's appointments or having open discussions before/after doctor's appointments, then you should be using condoms every time. And when you have an oops and forget a condom, or it breaks, or it falls off, then there should be a discussion regarding necessity of plan B. Again, if you can't have that conversation (well you shouldn't be having sex, but seriously, we all know that's not going to happen for most people), you should still be using condoms every time.

 

Holy crap. I hate the idea of "trap babies" no matter how much someone wants to say they know someone/people who have done it. Doesn't mean every accidental pregnancy was planned by a scheming female out to jack sperm. (Note: if she has poked holes in condoms, fished used condoms out of trash cans and artificially inseminated herself, or otherwise has sabotaged birth control outside the control of the man who has done his due diligence in procuring regular contraceptive use, then she has successfully acquired a trap baby. The law does not have some loophole regarding how a child is conceived, but if it's conceived and it is yours, it is your legal responsibility, so fucking wear a god damn condom every fucking time or else you have failed in trying to prevent a pregnancy, no matter what evil female told you.) /rant

 

---- show discussion below-----

 

Leah: omg the way that she walks around the actual issue (drugs). Can't wait to see her squirm when Cory confronts her. You could hear Jeremy trying to get around saying the issue, but just saying "healthy." Poor kids. 

 

Jenelle: ugh. Jenelle makes me hate myself because she makes me really mad about how she handles calling in domestic abuse issues. Yes, all reports of domestic violence should be reported. Yes, all these reports should be taken seriously until proven otherwise. But you could hear the cop's voice when he was looking at her hands, and going, why the fuck are we here for this. It's such a waste of the police's time, of police resources, and of the legal system for this kind of issue. However, the PA/neighbor/whoever called did the right thing by calling because there could have been a lot worse, seeing Nathan's temper and his size. There was also a baby around. I want to support people but man do I hate when people make mountains out of molehills about bullshit "assaults" (quotations because it's battery, yet people often will call this assault). Poor kids. 

 

Kail: ugh again. Bitch just needs to get over shit and start being happy. The friend who asked if she'd babysit hopefully was joking because if she was serious, she's stupid. But Kail should have laughed back about it. I'm going to assume for her sake that we saw her talk about it in most/all of her segments, but she spent most of her time on camera talking about other things and it was just cut out. Isaac's reaction was cute. But omg at Kail's comment regarding custody changing. Guess what: if Joe is living close by, chances are custody is going to become 50/50 or as close as possible (depending on whether the state... Delaware? Pennsylvania? I don't know if they will keep their custody stuff in the original court, or if they will request a change in court/file a new case if there's a need for further issues/custody changes). This is a good thing! Custody should be 50/50 as much as possible and both parents are responsible/not disasters. The unfortunate truth of divorce/not being with the other parent of your child is that you don't get 100% of your time with your child. It sucks, but you gotta deal with it. One week on/off or two weeks on/off or whatever other plan you decide on will work and you will deal with it because your child is equally yours and the other parents. Stop being such a selfish bitch about shit. Poor kids!

 

Chelsea: her story is boring because the drama is all around Adam and his general terribleness. Chelsea has done stupid shit but she's obviously grown up, has a good head of her shoulders, and a good support system. I don't believe in holding the past over someone's head when they've shown they have changed. Hooking up with Adam for as long as she did was dumb, but feelings are complicated and we all have slips. Good for her for finally moving on. I feel bad for Aubree, but I think she'll probably be fine in the long run, even if she has a bad relationship with her dad. She still has a good male role model in her life in Randy, and it looks like in Cole as well. I really like Cole, even with how little we've seen him, but mainly because how little we've seen him: he is the first guy in any Teen Mom's life who isn't jumping in front of the camera full throttle, and you can't say he's with Chelsea for the tv time. And good on Chelsea for waiting to introduce him to Aubree, and I'm pretty sure he's the first boy Aubree has met. I loved Chelsea's little twerk at the end only because it was so nonsensical and it's a nice side of her. 

[Maharincess]

I think a lot of posters get a little "bitch eating crackers" over some of these girls. Kail is awful in a lot of ways, but not everything she does and says is evil or wrong or bitchy. One thing I've noticed about Kail is that she's maintained a lot of long term friendships. She's definitely a shitty partner, but she seems to be a pretty decent friend.

This, a thousand times!! If you're against marriage period, that's one thing. But not being married because you're not "ready" yet purposefully getting pregnant is just dumb. And immature.

That's what everyone is saying though. Everyone who has commented about the backwardsness of starting a family without being married has specifically said this doesn't apply to people who aren't interested in marriage in general. So we're not talking about your situation.

That wasn't the impression I got from reading the comment I quoted. I was speaking directly to that comment. If I got the wrong impression from the comment, I apologize.

I was just saying that marriage truly doesn't matter to some people.

[GreatKazu]

 

However, the PA/neighbor/whoever called did the right thing by calling

MTV crew called because Nathan had locked all the doors. He did so knowing he was going after that ring. MTV heard Jenelle screaming "Get off of me!" many times.

 

 

Chelsea has done stupid shit but she's obviously grown up, has a good head of her shoulders, and a good support system. I don't believe in holding the past over someone's head when they've shown they have changed. Hooking up with Adam for as long as she did was dumb, but feelings are complicated and we all have slips. Good for her for finally moving on.

Exactly. If any of the other girls have matured, grown, made decent choices, they may not be in the situations that they are now complaining about. Kail bitches about Jo living nearby, but she created that mess. Kail regrets having had a second kid and marrying Javi, but she made those choices. She could have a pretty good co-parenting relationship with Jo, but she chooses not to.  Leah, well, we know her story. Until she gets her addiction issue under control, everything else will continue to be one big fucked up life. She can't fix that mess until the main problem is taken care of.  Jenelle is on a different level. She seriously has a mental problem that I don't think will ever be treated.

[ghoulina]

I made my statement about Kail being a decent friend based on the fact that she's  maintained her friendships over a long period of time.  If she was that shitty of a friend, she wouldn't have the same core group of friends for 6+ years.  That's not to say she's perfect (and in a show like this they're only going to show the dramatic times anyway) just that I don't see her holding a gun to any of her friends heads forcing them to keep being her friend so she's got to be doing something right.  On that note, Charles Manson had a lot of "friends" too.  ;)

 

I don't think Kail maintaining several of her friends over the years means she's a good friend. There could be a myriad of explanations for this. Her friends could be really shitty people as well. They could be insecure. They could be co-dependent. I've known crappy people with a ton of friends and really decent folks with almost no friends. 

 

I will say that Kail does seem to treat her friends better than her husband, but that isn't really saying much. 

[leighroda]

I can't stand Kail, she is lucky Jo wants to be a father to his child and his moving closer in theory should make it easier not to have to drive 3 hours for drop off/pick up... But as she stated before she doesn't want Jo to have Isaac so much in the summer because he's going to be doing sports/activities, with Jo living closer where Isaac can still participate in those thing and Jo can just pick him up, which makes that argument invalid. To me that just looks like it's not about what's best for Isaac, she just wants to spite Jo.

[Mkay]

Anyone else catch Kailyn telling her friends that, basically, she's just in mood to fight with Javi?  And one of the friends, I can't remember which one one, agreed. 

 

I've yet to see this other side of Kail, this decent friend.  She basically bitched Sterling out because SHE herself was a pain in the ass on the trip.  When her friends were doing her a favor and helping her move (on a previous season), if she had a whip, she would have cracked it.  I'm not saying she's Hitler, I'm just not seeing this "good friend" yet, that others may see.  Her friends are immature as well, so they may not know better. 

 

Speaking of Sterling, when she was telling Kailyn that her mother said her time was ruined I was thinking that her mother should have straight up told Kailyn, "You handle your issues with your husband, meanwhile, my friends and I are going to enjoy our trip.  If you want to join us, don't bring your drama on our outings." 

I see this friends as hanger's on and agreeing with everything Kail says and does because HEY! Kail pays for vacations and limo rides and whatever else she wants her friends to do with her. (Do I have proof she does this, no. But it's how it's perceived by me) Free vacation? Awesome house with a pool and a chance to be on MTV. Sure. Why wouldn't they? See if they are still friends when the money runs out and the tv show is gone.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Mkay

[fliptopbox]

I see this friends as hanger's on and agreeing with everything Kail says and does because HEY! Kail pays for vacations and limo rides and whatever else she wants her friends to do with her. (Do I have proof she does this, no. But it's how it's perceived by me) Free vacation? Awesome house with a pool and a chance to be on MTV. Sure. Why wouldn't they? See if they are still friends when the money runs out and the tv show is gone.

I agree. It's easy to bite your tongue when you're getting a bunch of freebies. I also found it amusing that Javi was all upset about Sterling potentially being there the week before, and not her 6 other friends who actually were. He had to have known he was gonna be pushed aside for her girlfriends. I just wonder if the lone other guy who was there was a husband, or the poor schmuck Javi was allowed to bring for pre-approved "guy time".  

[ChocolateAddict]

Adam really thinks that 6 months being sober (and I'm not sold) makes up for the 28 page long rap sheet?  I'm all for second chances but not when the safety of a 5 year old is involved.  I think that Adam genuinely does care about Aubree but if MTV wasn't in the picture, he would be seeing her once a month.  He doesn't care enough to pay child support on time that's for sure.  

And as for "I'm getting Paislee all weekend because Taylor has a f*cking brain", Taylor and Chelsea are completely different.  As far as we know, Adam has never told Taylor that her daughter was a massive mistake, refused to have his last name on the birth certificate, insulted every member of her family or refused to give her his phone number, saying that she should contact him on FaceBook.  Does he really think that Chelsea would forget the 5 years that he treated her like the dirt under his foot and just hand over Aubree?  He, like Kail, is using his kids to get to his ex and it is so heartbreaking for all the kids involved.  

Edited to add - I also loved it when he sent Chelsea the picture of them together, hoping to soften her up and she goes "what an idiot".  Shows how far she has come.  

Edited August 24, 2015 by ChocolateAddict

[GreatKazu]

 

I also loved it when he sent Chelsea the picture of them together, hoping to soften her up and she goes "what an idiot".  Shows how far she has come

Me too. It also shows how much he remains the same douchebag. He uses the same ol' manipulating tricks. The problem is, those only work if the other person is still the same fool. Taylor apparently is stuck in that rut.

[SneakyCentipede]

I noticed Leah's friend with the CCC sweatshirt as well. I'm not 100% up on Greek life, but I did take ancient Greek and I'm not familiar with the "C."  Chi is X, not C.

It's really bugging me.

It was an E or Sigma

[cheatincheetos]

It was an E or Sigma

I thought it was a Sigma too, tho it's been a while since I used it for sums in my college math.

[SneakyCentipede]

I think a lot of posters get a little "bitch eating crackers" over some of these girls.  Kail is awful in a lot of ways, but not everything she does and says is evil or wrong or bitchy.  One thing I've noticed about Kail is that she's maintained a lot of long term friendships. She's definitely a shitty partner, but she seems to be a pretty decent friend.  

 

This, a thousand times!!  If you're against marriage period, that's one thing.  But not being married because you're not "ready" yet purposefully getting pregnant is just dumb.  And immature.  

 

That's what everyone is saying though.  Everyone who has commented about the backwardsness of starting a family without being married has specifically said this doesn't apply to people who aren't interested in marriage in general.  So we're not talking about your situation.

Get a little "bitch is eating crackers" LMAO...when I first saw that on an ecard I think, I fully felt the person must know me because I have such a problem with that.  The minute I dont like someone everything they do annoys me, but I do catch myself doing and it an try to be a little reasonable.

You just made my day with that :)

[WhosThatGirl]

The thing is, the only one of these girls who I didn't like at all prior to this show was probably Janelle and that was because of her first 16 and pregnant episode, where she had this entitled attitude that of course she could go out to party while Barb watched Jace. I was hoping during this show, some time would have helped her grow but it made her worse.

 

As for Kail, I liked her in the beginning but now it's gotten to a point where she likes for things to be a struggle. The fact that she said sometimes she is just in a mood to fight with her husband might be the truest statement from her. I think Kail's a good mom but I think she uses the kids as bargaining chips when she can. 

 

When this show first started, Leah was actually my favorite. I felt for her because the situation of having a disabled child must be heartbreaking and I even felt for her despite her going back to Robbie, only because from what I remember, she and Corey hardly knew each other when they had the twins. But then the second season of this show started and the show somehow painted the divorce as Corey's fault. Just like they seem to be doing this season with Jeremy. 

 

Chelsea is the one I like the most. It took her a few years but I think she puts Aubree first. 

[Mkay]

Leah was by far my favorite. I truly thought Corey was ignoring her and not being loving and I really related to that.  Same here. I was really rooting for her. But then it started coming out about what actually happened and I liked her a little less.  Then she married Jeremy and when they started to brag about the money he made, she lost me.  Then it just got worse from there.

 

Kail was the other one I liked because once she got out on her own she seemed like she was really trying to better herself and her life for Isaac. Then she cheated on Jordan.  Then pushed Javi.  It's just all went to her head. All of it.  I don't like her but I despise her husband more. I can't even look at him when he is on my tv screen.  He is all about the fame and his bigpimpin status. (I am not about to call him what he calls himself)  

[crazychicken]

Kail to me was at her best when she moved into her little apartment, she had little money but seemed to be really trying to provide a better upbringing for Isaac than her own. I did not like how she treated some people but understood somewhat that she acted that way due to only really having herself to depend on. Jo was still an ass so her reactions seemed to fit. Then the money came and now she is in Barb's words an A1 arsehole. As for Javi as far as I am concerned he can go jump.

 

If Leah took responsibility for her actions I would have a lot more respect for her, she is always the victim and having her family and friends back her up drives me crazy.

[ChocolateAddict]

I was also really rooting for Leah.  I felt for her when they found out about Ali having a disability when she was going to have a hard enough time dealing with twins.  I wanted her marriage with Corey to work because he seemed so dedicated to the girls (even if he wasn't as devoted to Leah).  I even sympathized with her when she talked about how Corey worked too much because it would have been difficult having two babies at 17 to take care of full time.  But then she started playing the victim card a little too often.  All the blame was on Corey rather than her unreasonable expectations of marriage and she seemed to be surrounded by enablers.  Even after the divorce I was hoping that she would get a house and commit herself to the girls because she did seem like a really dedicated mum.  But I lost a lot of respect for her when she said to Jeremy that she wasn't sure when he proposed, ran back to Corey (who, IMO shouldn't have taken her back, he deserves someone like Miranda not Leah) and then went back to Jeremy and said yes. There was no consideration for Jeremy's feelings, Corey's feelings or what was best for the girls.  Getting pregnant with Cheetos was a conscious decision when she was already having problems with twins and she (again!) played the victim card with Jeremy.  For the girlses sake, I hope that she gets her sh*t together and I am sorry that she is in this position.  But quite frankly, that is on her.  

[GreatKazu]

 

Jo was still an ass so her reactions seemed to fit

Seeing how she treats all the people in her life, how she treated the Riveras, and how she treats Javi, is it any wonder why Jo seemed to be an ass to her? Sorry, but if someone treated me the way Kail does to those closest to her, you can bet your bottom dollar I am not going to give that person any respect or allow them to treat me like dirt. Anybody would regret treating me the way Kail treats Javi. Javi sits there and takes it, he is considered a pussy. Jo didn't take it, he is called out for being an asshole. When is it ever Kail's fault for being Kail? This is a pattern with her, not that she is surrounded by assholes. She brings out the asshole behavior in people. Even Sterling and her mother didn't take kindly to her behavior. Common denominator? Kail.

[WhosThatGirl]

Didn't Jo pay for Kail's school or something even when they weren't dating? She asked him for money and he gave it to her.

[Freckledbruh]

Didn't Jo pay for Kail's school or something even when they weren't dating? She asked him for money and he gave it to her.

Yes and she wasn't going to pay him back either. He had to hold her clothes hostage to force her hand. The cops made him give the clothes back but she had to admit on air that she hadn't planned on paying him back.

[lezlers]

I was also really rooting for Leah.  I felt for her when they found out about Ali having a disability when she was going to have a hard enough time dealing with twins.  I wanted her marriage with Corey to work because he seemed so dedicated to the girls (even if he wasn't as devoted to Leah).  I even sympathized with her when she talked about how Corey worked too much because it would have been difficult having two babies at 17 to take care of full time.  But then she started playing the victim card a little too often.  All the blame was on Corey rather than her unreasonable expectations of marriage and she seemed to be surrounded by enablers.  Even after the divorce I was hoping that she would get a house and commit herself to the girls because she did seem like a really dedicated mum.  But I lost a lot of respect for her when she said to Jeremy that she wasn't sure when he proposed, ran back to Corey (who, IMO shouldn't have taken her back, he deserves someone like Miranda not Leah) and then went back to Jeremy and said yes. There was no consideration for Jeremy's feelings, Corey's feelings or what was best for the girls.  Getting pregnant with Cheetos was a conscious decision when she was already having problems with twins and she (again!) played the victim card with Jeremy.  For the girlses sake, I hope that she gets her sh*t together and I am sorry that she is in this position.  But quite frankly, that is on her.  

 

I forgot about that whole running back to Corey, then when he wouldn't immediately commit to being in it 100% (being totally justified in his cautiousness) running back to Jeremy and marrying him.  That was especially callous and self-centered. She all but told Jeremy "because Corey won't have me, I suppose I'll marry YOU."  And he DID!  No wonder she has a princess complex.

Yes and she wasn't going to pay him back either. He had to hold her clothes hostage to force her hand. The cops made him give the clothes back but she had to admit on air that she hadn't planned on paying him back.

 

No doubt whatsoever that Kail is a total user.  She learned that from her useless, degenerate mother.

[truelovekiss]

Yes and she wasn't going to pay him back either. He had to hold her clothes hostage to force her hand. The cops made him give the clothes back but she had to admit on air that she hadn't planned on paying him back.

I forgot all about that! What a sleazebag she is. I do remember Smirnoff Suzie being there, more supportive of Kailyn than she ever was before. Grifters of a feather stick together and all. For all Kailyn's determination to be nothing like old Smirnoff, and rub her "success" in her face (and I say success very loosely. If Nipps was right about anything, it's that these girls hit the lottery. That's luck, not success), Kail is just like her.

Hear that Kail? You're just like your mother. I'll give it to her, she did do a better job of raising her kids than her mother did, I'm sure. And they'll have more opportunity, because she has more money, at least for now (that she got by exploiting herself and them for reality tv). But she treats people like shit, and takes what she hasn't earned and doesn't deserve. She takes advantage of kind people. She claims her motto is pride over pity. I don't know of many people that thrive on pity the way she does. She paints herself as a victim, finds someone to feel sorry for her and takes them for all they're worth, and then when they get tired of her shit, she finds someone new to pity her, ie Jo, Janet, Jordan, Javi and Sterling to name a few.

[truelovekiss]

I forgot about that whole running back to Corey, then when he wouldn't immediately commit to being in it 100% (being totally justified in his cautiousness) running back to Jeremy and marrying him. That was especially callous and self-centered. She all but told Jeremy "because Corey won't have me, I suppose I'll marry YOU." And he DID! No wonder she has a princess complex.

.

That blew my mind. Basically, in Leah's mind, she was going to marry someone. Either Corey or Jeremy, it didn't matter to her. She just wanted a ring, free reign over someone else's checking account, and the D.

Remember in Friends when Joey accidentally proposed to Rachel after she had Emma and she said yes? Ross confronted her on it, and she said she was such a wreck, she would have married anyone. Ross said he didn't want to be just "anyone." I think that's how Corey felt too. If Leah really cared about him and their relationship, she would have agreed to take it slow, and try to work it out. She saw Jeremy as her bird in the hand. She wasn't going to risk losing a willing groom over "maybes" with Corey.

[cheatincheetos]

Leah was by far my favorite. I truly thought Corey was ignoring her and not being loving and I really related to that.  Same here. I was really rooting for her. But then it started coming out about what actually happened and I liked her a little less.  Then she married Jeremy and when they started to brag about the money he made, she lost me.  Then it just got worse from there.

I feel sometimes that she never cared about Jeremy; he was just a tool to make Corey jealous and her backup plan if she couldn't get Corey (or Robbie?) back. Showing off Jeremy's paycheck as bigger than Corey's was part of that and a petty thing to do. Now with the decline in the gas and oil industry it's unclear whether Jeremy is still making as much money, but he's done with her and won't be funding her outside of child support -- if she gets shared custody of Addy.

[evilmindatwork]

Hear that Kail? You're just like your mother. I'll give it to her, she did do a better job of raising her kids than her mother did, I'm sure. And they'll have more opportunity, because she has more money, at least for now (that she got by exploiting herself and them for reality tv). But she treats people like shit, and takes what she hasn't earned and doesn't deserve. She takes advantage of kind people. She claims her motto is pride over pity. I don't know of many people that thrive on pity the way she does. She paints herself as a victim, finds someone to feel sorry for her and takes them for all they're worth, and then when they get tired of her shit, she finds someone new to pity her, ie Jo, Janet, Jordan, Javi and Sterling to name a few.

Lincoln and Isaac are still very young. I'll say Kail is better than her mom after Lincoln turns 17 and has succeeded in not impregnating fellow teen. 

 

ETA: I think Kail is already slipping into some of her mother's old habits. The fact that she takes endless vacations while dumping her kids with Javi's folks is not a good sign. I think she could still cut and run. 

Edited August 25, 2015 by evilmindatwork

[SPLAIN]

 

That blew my mind. Basically, in Leah's mind, she was going to marry someone. Either Corey or Jeremy, it didn't matter to her. She just wanted a ring, free reign over someone else's checking account, and the D.

This is exactly what it was about. Leah has been set up to believe that she has to have a husband/partner/lover, anyone who will support her. It doesn't matter who it is, as long as they are willing to accept her baggage. Leah's mother has fault in this because she has led her daughter to believe that she is no one unless she is married to someone. Leah was going to marry whoever was willing to have her, Cory or Jeremy. Cory no longer wanted her therefore, she will run to the guy who wanted her. Very disgusting way of life in that family.

 

Kail - I will never forget how she tried to stiff Jo out of $600. She also stole her mother's television. Everywhere she went, she had to take something. At the Rivera home, she took advantage of them, she used Jo's brother to babysit while she went with Jordan, she had Jo drop her off to go meet Jordan, she didn't pay the Rivera's rent although it was because all they asked of her was to follow the rules in their home. Kail took them for fools but, they caught on to her. Kail certainly feels the world owes her, and if the world doesn't give her, she will take. She has been trying to take Isaac away from his father, and she will likely do the same to Lincoln when her marriage goes down the tubes. Kail = fail.

[AnythingCanBe]

I think many posters here are hitting on something about both Kail and Leah that drives me crazy: They think that mothers are inherently more important than fathers. Their men are simply interchangeable. They should be thanking their lucky stars that they have the baby daddies they do. Not all girls who get pregnant at 16 with guys they barely know are so lucky. I bet Chelsea would kill to have someone like Jo or Corey as Aubree's dad. Instead of encouraging their kids' relationships with their dads, Kail fights Jo at every turn and tries to turn Javi into Isaac's dad, and Leah moves her kids in with some random dude while she spirals out of control and poor Corey has to struggle to get half the week with his girls. It makes me sick.