S02.E25: Televangelists

[Athena]

U.S. tax law allows television preachers to get away with almost anything. We know this from personal experience.

[attica]

Athena, you have two eps listed as S2E24. This would be E 25, no?

[bmoore4026]

Rachel Dratch!  Yay!!!!!!!

[Victor the Crab]

BWAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!! I just called the toll free number Ollie provided. And it was him giving us the address of where to send the money to, as well as pleading to us to give him money to Our Church of Perpetual Exemption, with him getting more and more agitated that we haven't already sent him money. But seriously, these so-called ministries are nothing more than a pyramid scheme. If they were true believers of the word of God and Jesus, they'd be telling their viewers to sell everything the have and devote their lives to helping the poor. This may have been Ollie's best episode, apart from, arguably, his interview I Moscow with Eric Snowden.

 

As for the rest of the show, I'd have gone with the black flag with the silver fern leaf as New Zealand's new flag as it is representative of their pride and glory, the national All Blacks rugby team. And hearing John Kerry speak Spanish makes me yearn for Jon, because he would have had fun with using Kerry's voice as it was his most underrated of bad impressions.

[ottoDbusdriver]

BWAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!! I just called the toll free number Ollie provided. And it was him giving us the address of where to send the money to, as well as pleading to us to give him money to Our Church of Perpetual Exemption, with him getting more and more agitated that we haven't already sent him money.

 

Praise Be.

 

I just called it -- and it's pretty funny.

Edited August 17, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[theabsolution]

And if you actually end up sending them money, psst, the money goes to Doctors without Borders.

[Delwyn]

I guess this settles it: John Oliver is the world's most patient and talented troll. Seven months of tithes via snail mail is a very long game. Turning satire into a legal, tax-free way to contribute to a charity that actually helps people, instead paying for planes, is impressive. That's a pretty bold move, creating your own church. Kudos.

 

I had an unexpected and macabre out loud laugh at the line "anyway, the casualties number in the thousands." The timing and change of tone masterfully illustrated how silly the news can make very serious issues look.

[Jamoche]

Oh, come on, Tilton - everyone knows it's never Lupus.

[scarynikki12]

Any chance that was the Go Fuck Yourself choir from The Daily Show?

[Tardislass]

Still can't believe those charletons are out there. My grandma spent thousands on the 700 Club-because those poor preachers needed money to spread the word. Instead she ended up almost bankrupt.

But I'm in awe of the time and effort this show spends on its subjects. This was gold and one of his best. His church webpage is hilarious and the phone message had me dying of laughter this morning.

[wisteria]

Unless I just missed it, I'm surprised he didn't even mention Scientology, which is a great big shining example of the call-yourself-a-church tax exemption scam. (Or maybe HBO figured they'd already punished CoS enough with Going Clear?)

 

And thanks for the DwB heads-up, TheAbsolution! I thought I might send him a dollar bill just for a laugh, but now I might bump up that amount.

[Jediknight]

Unless I just missed it, I'm surprised he didn't even mention Scientology, which is a great big shining example of the call-yourself-a-church tax exemption scam. (Or maybe HBO figured they'd already punished CoS enough with Going Clear?)

They don't have televangelists though, and most consider it a cult, so even though it does have tax-exempt status most don't buy it for one freaking second.

 

The rejected New Zealand flags were stupendous.

[ganesh]

I detest people that prey upon the weak and the poor. I really don't care if some rich people get ripped off, but these people need a serious beat down. Don't go to your doctor if you have cancer, just give us money. What garbage.

 

Churches should be taxed. Period. 

[trow125]

"The Nightly Show" has done a good job of covering Creflo Dollar but I honestly had no idea these other charlatans were still out there and the full extent of what this "prosperity gospel" B.S. is all about. I associated televangelists wtih the 1980s, the heyday of Jim & Tammy Bakker et al. Sadly, I suspect nothing will come of this piece (though I enjoyed it a great deal, particularly John's lengthy "correspondence" -- I'm glad HBO didn't pony up much more than $300). The IRS is undoubtedly terrified of taking on religious groups, and while you might hope the televangelists would be shamed by the attention, they're obviously beyond shame.

[Jediknight]

Churches should be taxed. Period. 

You're not going to get any argument from me.

[attica]

But seriously, these so-called ministries are nothing more than a pyramid scheme.

 

Pedant alert: pyramid schemes pay out to some, if you're in early enough. These churches are straight out grifts: Give us money, get nothing (except demands for more). Even crowd-funding sites (on the internet!!!11!!) have more ethics than churches.

 

I have a fondness for eggs, and I think explosions are cool, so I endorse the eggsplosion flag.

[snowwhyte]

I was really hoping there was a Community fan in New Zealand who had submitted the Community butt flag.

[teddysmom]

Any chance that was the Go Fuck Yourself choir from The Daily Show?

 

I thought so too. 

 

I will seriously fight anyone who tries to steal John Oliver from me.  He will be mine. 

 

Before he even got the words out of his mouth, I was on my feet clapping, yes in my own living room by myself.   Take those mother fuckers down, John, take them down. 

 

How the hell do churches not get audited? Not just these assholes, but ALL churches?   I have no problem with people believing what they want, spending Sunday morning or Saturday or whatever day they worship. But there is too much cash changing hands, and no accounting for where it goes. 

 

Kiwi with lasers shooting out of its eyes. Period.  

[attica]

How the hell do churches not get audited? Not just these assholes, but ALL churches?

 

Republicans in congress keep reducing funding to the IRS, which means they reduce staff, which means the number of audits they can do is reduced, which means churches don't get audited. Which is why I always find it funny that the Rs always hold up the IRS as the jackbooted thugs of law enforcement, and companies advertise themselves as being the only thing between you and having all of your worldly goods tossed into the great IRS maw. Would that it were so, but it just ain't.

[Lila82]

Oh, come on, Tilton - everyone knows it's never Lupus.

 

 

My only complaint: no House references.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Kiwi with lasers shooting out of its eyes. Period.  

 

That flag was kind of awesome.

[The Solution]

 I associated televangelists wtih the 1980s, the heyday of Jim & Tammy Bakker et al.

 

Jim is still out there running the same scam he always has, except that now there's Powdered Food! And he's replaced Tammy Faye with a former drug addict/biker bitch named Lori Bakker.

 

http://jimbakkershow.com/

 

I believe you can still buy timeshares from Jim.

[iMonrey]

Sometimes I wish I were more of a shit so I could set up my own church and scam gullible people out of their money. It's PT Barnum's principle of a sucker being born every minute at work. I thought John was masterful in avoiding the larger issue of religion itself because without it people wouldn't be taken in by these kinds of con artists and it shows how desperate people are to believe in something. But I suppose that's Bill Maher's job.

 

 

Republicans in congress keep reducing funding to the IRS, which means they reduce staff, which means the number of audits they can do is reduced, which means churches don't get audited.

 

Yes and just recently the IRS was embroiled in a huge scandal just because they were scrutinizing applications for tax-exempt status by quasi-religious based groups who wanted to give money to politicians. Which is their job. And Republicans managed to frame the whole thing as the IRS taking orders from Obama or some such nonsense.

[ganesh]

And organizations based on the belief that they shouldn't have to pay taxes.

It's not really the IRS' fault about the auditing. It's the lack of regulations. You either have to make it really hard to get to be tax exempt or just tax all of them. No way Congress will ever do anything about it.

[Danny Franks]

Wow, televangelists are even worse than I knew. Not only do they beg for money from people without caring that they might be poor and vulnerable, but they actually specifically target the poor and vulnerable with lies about how giving money away will actually help them improve their lives. They are truly terrible human beings.

 

At the same time, it's baffling to me that anyone could be suckered by these liars, but then I guess if people still fall for the old Nigerian prince email scam, they'll fall for anything. It's sad that devout religious belief is exploited in such a way by those who present themselves as religious authorities, but what else is new?

 

Churches should definitely be taxed. But these aren't churches, they're extortion rackets, and should be banned.

 

As for the New Zealand flag, I figured that the reason they wanted to change was to get rid of the Union Flag. But it turns out they just don't want to be confused with Australia? Understandable. 

 

Is the Cuba deal at all controversial in America, or are those who would normally be outraged about it too busy being outraged about other stuff?

[Wax Lion]

Republicans in congress keep reducing funding to the IRS, which means they reduce staff, which means the number of audits they can do is reduced, which means churches don't get audited.

 

Let's not forget that the Republicans love wrapping themselves in the first amendment to dismantle any threat they may pay taxes. Any attempt to question if a "church"'s use of tax exemption is suppressing religious freedom, including telling a business they can't run a business and have a special exemption from discrimination laws. (A major argument about how marriage equality would end up suppressing religious freedom involved a NJ case where a church was told they couldn't keep renting out a non-religious property for events and refuse to do so for gay couples wanting to use the property for their wedding.)  And asking political groups for support that they meet the definition of a tax exempt group is President Obama directly threatening them for their political beliefs (and remember these are the same people arguing for undercover police at any group who discussed opposing the Iraq War.

 

Which is why I always find it funny that the Rs always hold up the IRS as the jackbooted thugs of law enforcement, and companies advertise themselves as being the only thing between you and having all of your worldly goods tossed into the great IRS maw. Would that it were so, but it just ain't.

 

It's a great scam. There's a radio ad I hear where a guy promises to help you arrange your money so you never have to worry if tax rates go back up to 90% like before Regan. I know a few people whose parents have given thousands to lawyers to try to make sure their inheritance won't deal with taxes. Of course, they never mention how much money it takes to hit that bracket, they just take money from people who don't understand how it works.

[teddysmom]

Churches should definitely be taxed. But these aren't churches, they're extortion rackets, and should be banned.

 

Somebody on Gawker just said that if there is truly a separation of church and state, then churches shouldn't be taxed.  I do not get that logic at all. 

 

Paying taxes isn't supporting one political party, it's paying to have roads, fire departments, a military, etc.  

[Human]

I continue to be amazed at how well John Oliver can take a topic that has the potential to be extremely controversial and divisive and present it in a fairly non partisan way.  This topic had the potential to be summed up as "churches are evil, they steal money from the government."  But when it's an idea presented via televangelists who don't even hide the fact that it's about the money, a group of people that are widely considered pretty vile, it changes the entire tone of the dialogue.  One way of presenting it can put people on the offense because it's hard to not react when it appears one's religion is under attack.  But the way it's presented here, it's hard not to scrutinize the issue when it's predators who are being mocked.  

 

 

It's a great scam. There's a radio ad I hear where a guy promises to help you arrange your money so you never have to worry if tax rates go back up to 90% like before Regan. I know a few people whose parents have given thousands to lawyers to try to make sure their inheritance won't deal with taxes. Of course, they never mention how much money it takes to hit that bracket, they just take money from people who don't understand how it works.

And of course they will then turn around and villainize those who need to use safety nets.  Because taking money from the government is perfectly fine when you can hire a lawyer to help you do but somehow it's evil when it's someone who can barely afford to hire a babysitter.  

[peeayebee]

At the same time, it's baffling to me that anyone could be suckered by these liars, but then I guess if people still fall for the old Nigerian prince email scam, they'll fall for anything.

I liken it more to playing the lottery. The people who send money to televangelists do so because they believe they will be rewarded for their faith. Of course it's misplaced faith.

[Traveller519]

They know their target. The reason seniors are the target for these types of scams is that they tend to be a bit more cashed up, they're facing their own mortality, and being less mobile they crave the contact. They know what they're doing sending prayer oils and the what not, that bit of interaction really plays to their target group.

 

Don't let your grandparents get taken for these types of scams. Call them, visit them, keep them entertained with the outside world.

[Chaos Theory]

When people tak about Religion and for one second diminishing the rights of religions Republicans feel threatened to their very core. Guns and Religion are two things Republicans will fight you to the bitter bitter insane end for.

It doesn't matter that their is no reason for any religion to have that much money and to have no checking what they are doing with it.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[khyber]

I sent my $5 check to John's church this morning. In my note I said that what I hoped to reap by sowing this seed was a new Bugle.

Edited August 17, 2015 by khyber

[Sharpie66]

Is the Cuba deal at all controversial in America, or are those who would normally be outraged about it too busy being outraged about other stuff?

 

You really only see the Marco Rubios of the Republicans arguing against it, more for their own constituencies' sakes than anything else. But, even in southern Florida, the heart of the old-school Cubans, it's only the older cohort who are still against normalizing relations with Castro's Cuba. My BIL and his family got out in 1962, right before Castro shut down the escape routes, and he and his brother are all for it. In fact, they're going down there this fall, along with my sister and other family members. I'm not too sure what BIL's mom's opinion is on the matter--I should ask him next time I talk with him.

[dcalley]

It's frustrating that, if nothing else, this somehow isn't mail fraud.

 

Laser Kiwi was cool, but clearly no one submitted a Hypnokiwi flag design (it would have been declared the winner immediately).

[Athena]

I was eating chia pudding when I watched this episode.

 

Here is what happens when you call the 1-800 number:

 

[Tardislass]

You really only see the Marco Rubios of the Republicans arguing against it, more for their own constituencies' sakes than anything else. But, even in southern Florida, the heart of the old-school Cubans, it's only the older cohort who are still against normalizing relations with Castro's Cuba. My BIL and his family got out in 1962, right before Castro shut down the escape routes, and he and his brother are all for it. In fact, they're going down there this fall, along with my sister and other family members. I'm not too sure what BIL's mom's opinion is on the matter--I should ask him next time I talk with him.

I think I read that 3/4 of Americans are in favor of normalizing relations. And most know that Mr. Rubio's parents fled Cuba when Batista was President of the country. Its mostly down to the old Miami Cubans that still hold sway with some Congressmen.

P.S. I've never had a thing for televangelists but Mr. Oliver can come over anytime!

As a CPA it's so frustrating to see these lax tax laws, the same as that Westboro Church cult that can get tax breaks.

I'm actually amazed that that A-hole preacher with the two learjets had no audience members walk out. Who would sit there at listen to that?

[Human]

Listening to the phone number is cracking me up.  But now I'm wondering how Last Week Tonight will be handling this increased mail load.  Are they paying people to open all of this mail or are they using unpaid labor?  Are the wages of church employees tax exempt? If not, why?  Did he choose to only accept snail mail donations in order to support the USPS or is it because he didn't want to pay credit card charge fees or both?  Is he concerned about the environmental impact of that additional mail load?  

 

So many questions, not enough answers.  

[Tardislass]

Listening to the phone number is cracking me up.  But now I'm wondering how Last Week Tonight will be handling this increased mail load.  Are they paying people to open all of this mail or are they using unpaid labor?  Are the wages of church employees tax exempt? If not, why?  Did he choose to only accept snail mail donations in order to support the USPS or is it because he didn't want to pay credit card charge fees or both?  Is he concerned about the environmental impact of that additional mail load?  

 

So many questions, not enough answers.

Unpaid labor= interns.... But that 1-800!number must be burning up the lines....all I can say is

SEND ME MONEY!!! Lol

[represent]

Good lord, this man is funny. I just called that number, Oliver is worth the money HBO is sending him.  This show is just good times, good times and "Praise Be."

[ElTVaddict]

Desperation make people do strange things. Nine years ago while my daughter was dying of a brain tumor, I called every Televangelist on Daystar begging for prayer. This is coming from a pragmatist, if I daughter had survived I think I'd be almost broke now, giving them money for saving her life.

[Hooper]

With his founding of his new perfectly legal church, John as taken a page from Stephen Colbert's playbook.  The only way that John  could have improved upon his founding of his new perfectly legal church would have been if he had adopted "praying for a better tomorrow, tomorrow" as its main doctrine and hired Trevor Potter as his tax attorney.

 

Also, I had the same thought as peeayebee - that the concept of "seed money" is an awful lot like the lottery.

[Tardislass]

Desperation make people do strange things. Nine years ago while my daughter was dying of a brain tumor, I called every Televangelist on Daystar begging for prayer. This is coming from a pragmatist, if I daughter had survived I think I'd be almost broke now, giving them money for saving her life.

So sorry for your loss. These people take advantage on the vulnerable.

For those who think all their followers are rubes and deserve what happens, I will say my Grandma was a sweet and kindhearted woman. She just believed all the BS about needing the money to expand the ministry and when pointed out that the evangelist had a mansion and big car, stated that her donations will eventually come back to her.

I think John's point is that it's incredibly easy to be called a church and get tax exemption-aka Westboro. Add on to that the crotons with their seed money and IRS changes need to be made. Incidentally a congressman tried to reform the televangelist field in 2007 but no action was taken.

[dusang]

I saw a documentary a couple of years ago about Pat Robertson's "Operation Blessing," which claimed to be a relief mission in the Congo in the wake of the Rwandan genocide but appears to have been a diamond-smuggling operation. Good film. Praise be.

 

ETA: The film was Mission: Congo and here is a review from the Toronto International Film Festival.

Edited August 18, 2015 by dusang

[ElTVaddict]

So sorry for your loss. These people take advantage on the vulnerable.

For those who think all their followers are rubes and deserve what happens, I will say my Grandma was a sweet and kindhearted woman. She just believed all the BS about needing the money to expand the ministry and when pointed out that the evangelist had a mansion and big car, stated that her donations will eventually come back to her.

I think John's point is that it's incredibly easy to be called a church and get tax exemption-aka Westboro. Add on to that the crotons with their seed money and IRS changes need to be made. Incidentally a congressman tried to reform the televangelist field in 2007 but no action was taken.

Thank you for sympathies.

 

I feel for your family in regards to your grandmother. I'm not sure if my mother-in-law is sending money to these charlatans, but she spends all day watching them.

 

That Westboro church is the worst. They should be holding their protest in Washington, not a dead soliders' funerals.

[Human]

Unpaid labor= interns.... But that 1-800!number must be burning up the lines....all I can say is

SEND ME MONEY!!! Lol

They could also be volunteers who are come in to do a specific task usually with the intent of being charitable.  Mileage varies, but for me it makes a difference.  Volunteers I'm perfectly ok with.  If it's unpaid interns, not so much.  I'm sure there are interns at working at HBO and/or Last Week Tonight, but hopefully they are receiving some compensation (either wages, housing, food, etc) while they are receiving job training.  But too many times I've seen interns brought on just so companies can have unpaid labor performing all of the menial tasks, like making copies or opening mail or depositing checks.  

[Hanahope]

This episode was absolutely wonderful.  It reminded me a bit of a Steve Martin movie, Leap of Faith, which showed some of the tricks traveling tent-preachers use against religious suckers.  I love that John/HBO actually went so far as to play with their mail fraud scheme a bit so they'd have the evidence to show us. 

 

I think the reason it can't be considered technically "mail fraud" is because nothing tangible is ever promised.  Its like those "prize" schemes that for a $5 entrance fee, they promise you will win 1 of 5 great prizes: a new car, a 5 carat diamond ring, a jet ski, an iphone 6 plus, or a nylon fanny pack.  Guess which one 99.99% people win?  As long as the company actually delivers you one of those prizes, you're technically getting what is promised, so there's no fraud (and the owners/relatives of the prize scheme "win" the car, ring, jet ski and iphone).  If the televangelist only promises you "god's blessing", well, who's to say one didn't actually receive it in some way, because a car didn't hit you the last time you crossed the street?

 

Anyone know why you can't donate money from certain states?

[ottoDbusdriver]

Anyone know why you can't donate money from certain states?

 

I'm curious about that as well -- the states mentioned are Mississippi, Pennsylvania, Nevada and South Carolina.

[Athena]

I'm curious about that as well -- the states mentioned are Mississippi, Pennsylvania, Nevada and South Carolina.

 

Each state's laws differs on the level of solicitation allowed. I think these states require you to actually be registered with them before you can solicit their citizens.

[RadiantAerynSun]

So glad to see Ollie take this topic on. It is one of my hugest pet peeves!!! I find it absolutely disgusting how these people pray on the most poor, vulnerable, etc. They EXPLICITLY hunt out those who have the least to give, and take their money for their own gain. I can't believe it's legal, and I'm dismayed that more people don't see through the smoke and mirrors, but they know their target audience well. I used to watch the 700 Club at night out of morbid curiosity until I just got so enraged I thought I'd wind up throwing my remote at the TV so had to stop. The little stories they tell are designed specifically to manipulate people who are ALREADY IN DEBT up to their eyeballs to send money to THEM... and play these BS stories where they "supposedly" got magic money from the sky a few months later (yeah, I wonder what the statistics are on how likely THAT is to happen). I would love to see an expose on that creepy old man. I actually live very near to where they film it and have toyed with the idea of going to watch a taping...

[iMonrey]

 

It's not really the IRS' fault about the auditing. It's the lack of regulations.

 

That's wasn't really the case with the so-called "scandal" where Republicans accused the IRS of targeting Republican groups. The fact was, Republican groups were disproportionately applying for tax-exempt status, so those groups were more likely to be scrutinized simply by sheer volume. Republicans started screaming about the IRS going after Republicans and not Democrats. It was political theater. Where funding became an issue might have been in PR. The IRS should have stood up for itself and pointed out how many phony political groups were applying for tax-exempt status as opposed to Democratic or non-partisan groups. Although perhaps they did but didn't scream as loud as Republican pundits and their friends at Fox News.