S07.E17: London Calling

[LotusFlower]

I thought the scenes in London were great, and indicative of why we need fewer housewives.  When the show took a breath to really tell a story, it got so much stronger.  This episode was almost entirely about Carole (and Dorinda), and it was stronger for that.

 

I have always thought that Carole's stoner/lighthearted take on life was a reaction to the experience of her marriage, and the intense loss of her friends that came at the same time.  She went deep, and it devastated her, so she's reluctant to go deep again. So she flits around acting like a 20something character from a rom-com, dating rock stars and chefs, and not wanting to hug anyone or get serious, and I get it.  To see her with her guard down was so incredibly touching.  And more so because it came after three seasons (especially this season) of her fighting so hard to be "tough" and "light".  

 

If you haven't read her open letter on the Bravo page, do so.  It was also really powerful.

 

I thought the conversation with her and Dorinda on the bed, talking about the practical experience of death (getting a cab afterwards, falling asleep on the bed) was incredible.  I thought their bravery in admitting some of the more complex experiences of loss was really special too.  My mom had a horrible, horrible illness, and it wrenched my life into pieces for over a year.  And it's hard to talk about some of the complex emotions that came with that - the anger, for instance, at the person who is sick; and the relief when they are gone because you can sleep again and you're not scared all the time about what might happen next (oh man, did I get that).   People often don't want to admit to those things - I didn't want to, for so many reasons.  My mom's death was about her, not about me, so to talk about my own feelings and emotions seemed selfish. But I had them.   And she was my favorite person in the world, the best person I ever knew, so how could I be angry at her when she was dying, or relieved when she was gone?  But I was, and I was.  I don't like to admit those feelings to anyone.  For Carole and Dorinda to be willing to admit them to everyone was brave.  And moving.   And so powerful it was like I was watching a different show.

 

I will admit that it's interesting how we bring our history with these women to the show.  For Carole, it helped to illuminate some feelings about her I have always had.  For Dorinda, while I loved her in this episode, it was hard for me to reconcile this woman with the one who has been torturing Heather for weeks (and who went for Heather hard, and vicious, in her blog last week - sigh).  We all contain multitudes, I know Dorinda has the right to contain multitudes as well.  

 

It was weird that the episode also had a 15 minute Bethenny/Skinnygirl ad in it, featuring appearances from some of the RHONY women, but whatever.  I always skip through the ads anyway.

This is my favorite post of the day. Ok, season. I agree with every word of it. And it's so smartly written.

Speaking of good writing....I co-sign the recommendation to read Carole's letter to viewers. I loved every second of Carole and Dorinda's scenes in London, but I didn't get verklempt! (Not sure why, cuz unlike Carole, I am a crier). But I teared up reading her letter. It's so poignant and beautifully written. I've really missed her blogs this year.

[archer1267]

I was extremely impressed by the way both Dorinda & Carole were in this ep -- so dignified & bittersweet.  It was just so wonderful to see these women behave this way.  I'd like to think this is who they both actually are.

 

 

Same here. It was an abrupt transition to go from their natural conversation to Bethenny's comment about the "rim job" on her cocktail glass. I'm not a prude but I just thought, ENOUGH of the quips. I don't want to hear Ramona likened to a dog in heat (even if it's true), I don't want to hear about her mud wrestling, I don't want the imagery of a rim job when I'm taking food or drink offered to me. I want people who know how to be real. Going from London to Bethenny's party and Sonja's tooth…I dunno, just made these women and their shtik seem particularly tired or desperate.

Edited July 29, 2015 by archer1267

[OhGromit]

Luann has some nice pieces but her line is definitely budget-conscious. Sonja's prices are high enough that they're verging on some designer prices. Not quite who the target audience is. 

 

Sonja's prices are more than twice what designers charge, for gowns you can get at Bloomingdale's.  I had to shop for fancy dresses for a couple events last year, and at Bloomingdale's, the prices I saw were usually in the mid-three figures-- and that was for some top designers.  The Halston Heritage gown below is $595.  The Badgley Mischka is $650.  And they have actual number sizing, go figure.  Sonja's gowns are priced at $1,295!   And they're sized like they're Gap t-shirts, S, M, L.... 

 

http://www1.bloomingdales.com/shop/product/halston-heritage-gown-asymmetric-strap-slit-front?ID=1294659&CategoryID=21683&LinkType=#fn=DRESS_OCCASION%3DEvening/Formal%26PRICE%3D500.0|1000.0%26spp%3D5%26ppp%3D96%26sp%3D1%26rid%3D%26spc%3D52

 

http://www1.bloomingdales.com/shop/product/badgley-mischka-gown-column?ID=1382229&CategoryID=21683&LinkType=#fn=DRESS_OCCASION%3DEvening/Formal%26PRICE%3D500.0|1000.0%26spp%3D12%26ppp%3D96%26sp%3D1%26rid%3D%26spc%3D52

Edited July 29, 2015 by OhGromit

[zoeysmom]

Sonja's prices are more than twice what designers charge, for gowns you can get at Bloomingdale's.  I had to shop for fancy dresses for a couple events last year, and at Bloomingdale's, the prices I saw were usually in the mid-three figures-- and that was for some top designers.  The Halston Heritage gown below is $595.  The Badgley Mischka is $650.  And they have actual number sizing, go figure.  Sonja's gowns are priced at $1,295!   And they're sized like they're Gap t-shirts, S, M, L.... 

 

http://www1.bloomingdales.com/shop/product/halston-heritage-gown-asymmetric-strap-slit-front?ID=1294659&CategoryID=21683&LinkType=#fn=DRESS_OCCASION%3DEvening/Formal%26PRICE%3D500.0|1000.0%26spp%3D5%26ppp%3D96%26sp%3D1%26rid%3D%26spc%3D52

 

http://www1.bloomingdales.com/shop/product/badgley-mischka-gown-column?ID=1382229&CategoryID=21683&LinkType=#fn=DRESS_OCCASION%3DEvening/Formal%26PRICE%3D500.0|1000.0%26spp%3D12%26ppp%3D96%26sp%3D1%26rid%3D%26spc%3D52

Sonya's gowns are silk. . . not polyester and elastine.  To me that is a huge difference.  I can see where the sizing thing would be off putting-is a Size 6 a small or a medium?  One offers eight sizes and the other five sizes.  I would wear a size medium silk dress before a Size 6 polyester dress.  I guess we all have our breaking point.  I think it is funny it is a Halston HERITAGE dress. Hmmmm. . . where does Sonja get her inspiration?

I agree. And the prices are way too high for what they are. The website, or collection, is so weird. I don't get it. Are the clothes selling?

As for the preview, though, I agree with Sonja, and that's a first. The business of modeling is all about what you look like; every inch of your face and bod is looked at and judged - it's not personal. Sure, it would certainly be unkind if you told a model she was fat or homely, but Sonja didn't insult the model at all - she simply wasn't what she was looking for. That's what modeling calls are for....they're used to it. It was just a short clip, but Heather, not surprisingly, seemed to ask smart questions, and Bethenny was wrong on every level. Her eating disorder remark was absurd, as folks here pointed out, and I'm not even sure what she was doing there in the first place.

I think at this point it doesn't matter she completed something. 

 

I agree about the models. . .even Yolanda Foster makes comments about her daughters and how they aren't necessarily suited for the same job.

[esco1822]

My point was lost. . .if the end result of game is getting the guy, Ramona's moves worked.  Much to my chagrin. He had the ability to walk away or excuse himself in two hours.  If nothing else a nature call-even Ramona can't deny a bathroom break.   I thought she was rude to take up his time instead of taking back to the table and meet with the other women.  BTW Bethenny standing behind the guy squawking about Ramona being hyper sexual was bad game as well.  All in all I think Ramona objectifies men.  Don't see anything different in last night's episode.  There were guys she could have laughed and danced and had a goodtime but she was in the zone and booked out of there blaming Bethenny for lack of selection.

I feel like I must have missed something.  When was it stated that "naked guy" was the bar owner?  I got the impression naked guy was just a friend of Lu's conquest for the evening.  That led me to believe it was someone entirely different that we didn't see on camera especially because Ramona was CLEARLY into bar owner but later stated she didn't so much as kiss drunk guy and wasn't interested, she was just playing wing man.  If i'm correct, that is definitely not a win for Ramona.  She got "A" guy but not "THE" guy.  

[motorcitymom65]

I agree. And the prices are way too high for what they are. The website, or collection, is so weird. I don't get it. Are the clothes selling?

As for the preview, though, I agree with Sonja, and that's a first. The business of modeling is all about what you look like; every inch of your face and bod is looked at and judged - it's not personal. Sure, it would certainly be unkind if you told a model she was fat or homely, but Sonja didn't insult the model at all - she simply wasn't what she was looking for. That's what modeling calls are for....they're used to it. It was just a short clip, but Heather, not surprisingly, seemed to ask smart questions, and Bethenny was wrong on every level. Her eating disorder remark was absurd, as folks here pointed out, and I'm not even sure what she was doing there in the first place.

My guess is that Sonja invited Beth because she thought she was very helpful the last time she met with these folks, (not knowing that Beth mocked them all the minute she was out of the room) and that Beth invited Heather. I cannot see Sonja inviting Heather, unless Beth suggested it, because of their history. I also noticed that Heather said something about how she thought she was there to look at clothing, and Beth said she thought she could help because of her experience with models. It will ne interesting to watch this dynamic. I say good for Sonja for actually getting something done, but it will prove to be a miserable failure because she did the wrong thing and didn't listen to people who were trying to help her.

[LotusFlower]

I think at this point it doesn't matter she completed something.

But did she? Yes, she has a line of clothing, and I guess that's something (low bar here), but it's not in any retail outlets, and is only available through her own website. Plus, last I checked, items were only available for pre-order. I'm curious if there are any sales. And at the end of the day, was it (or will it be) a viable business, or will she lose money?

[motorcitymom65]

But did she? Yes, she has a line of clothing, and I guess that's something (low bar here), but it's not in any retail outlets, and is only available through her own website. Plus, last I checked, items were only available for pre-order. I'm curious if there are any sales. And at the end of the day, was it (or will it be) a viable business, or will she lose money?

Great point. Are they still pre-order? 

 

The problem with Sonja is that you will never get any straight answers, or answers you can believe. 

Edited July 29, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[AnnA]

I couldn't figure out which guy you were talking about. You mean the guy at T&C? It is nothing but speculation that either Beth or Carole were one bit interested in that guy. Neither one of them said as much, and that didn't look like flirting to me. The only way to honestly measure that would be to have sent them up to the guy one at a time, the same as Ramona, and let them have a chance at trying to lure him to their web. It certainly didn't look like that was what they were doing, so I don't think we can say Ramona "won" anything.  Well, she did win the title for looking the most ridiculous. The WWHL deal was awesome. 90% of the audience agreeing that Ramona has no game is pretty significant. I would assume that the interaction with the guy in T&C was part of the reason for her hysterical score. 

 

I'm only half way through reading this thread but had to stop so I could agree with your post.

 

I don't think Ramona had "game" that night.  She was just pushy and rude while sticking her new boobs in everyone's face.   Carole and Bethenny were talking to him about the possibility of mixing drinks at the bar.   Ramona just shoved her way in and turned her back on them.  I'm assuming that John (the owner) was being polite to Ramona and probably didn't want Bethenny behind the bar anyway.

[LotusFlower]

Great point. Are they still pre-order? 

 

The problem with Sonja is that you will never get any straight answers, or answers you can believe.

Right. That's why I'm curious if there's any chatter over her clothes, ie. feedback from any buyers. I just popped over to her website, and it doesn't say for pre-order anymore, which is a good sign, but how are the sales? Is anyone buying? Folks here and at other HW sites are presumably her target audience, but I don't see anyone talking. Compare that to all the Yummie talk, even LuAnn and Nene's clothing lines, and of course Skinnygirl. Heck, even Teresa's cookbooks got mentions back in the day!

[goofygirl]

That was MY question too....  Are ANY of her clothes actually SELLING in pre-order? That seems to be the point of creating a clothing line. But that's just me.

[KFC]

A random thought: The Bravo monkeys TOTALLY gave Kristen an earlier call time than the other HWs to arrive at the Skinnygirl party.

 

You don't think we know, but we do. Y'all were trying to start something between Bethenny and Kristen.

[talula]

You have to be a loyal friend in order to have loyal friends.  Ramona is not a loyal friend to anyone.  Why would anyone want to be her friend, especially if they have seen her on this show?  She would suck at doing any of those things you suggested, and she would make everyone around her miserable in the process. 

Lol, you might be right Ramona hasn't shown she knows how to work with others! I agree, after seeing her on TV...what guy would find her personality attractive?

Wonder if she's acting like a rabid dog because she believes Mario will see her documented try at sexual exploits and get jealous? With her ego I can't imagine how infuriated she must be to be publicly dumped for a younger woman. She's always acted strange, but now seems to have gone off her rocker.

[ottergirl]

Same here. It was an abrupt transition to go from their natural conversation to Bethenny's comment about the "rim job" on her cocktail glass. I'm not a prude but I just thought, ENOUGH of the quips. I don't want to hear Ramona likened to a dog in heat (even if it's true), I don't want to hear about her mud wrestling, I don't want the imagery of a rim job when I'm taking food or drink offered to me. I want people who know how to be real. Going from London to Bethenny's party and Sonja's tooth…I dunno, just made these women and their shtik seem particularly tired or desperate.

 

I totally agree with you, but I have to say, Bethenny's line comparing getting Ramona laid to Saving Private Ryan "because we're all going to die trying" - that was one of Bethenny's best lines ever.  

 

(My other favorite from this season was when Kelly Bensimmon showed up to try and get a reaction out of Bethenny.  "Kelly Bensimmon?  That's so 2000 and who cares.")  

[archer1267]

Speaking of Kelly, I'd love it if Ramona quoted her rationale for not wanting casual sex - "if you had it like this, you wouldn't give it away."

[OhGromit]

Sonya's gowns are silk. . . not polyester and elastine.  To me that is a huge difference.  

 

Okay, you have an eye for detail I see!  So I looked, but it doesn't seem like the material should make that much of a difference; silk gowns are in the same range.  The dress below was $596-- at Barneys (and is now marked down).  Another one from BCBG is even less (see below)-- $398 (also now marked down).  

 

ETA:  I kept looking and found some really expensive silk gowns.  Like Carolina Herrera and stuff.  So I guess point taken... but still.  WTH is Sonja doing selling, or trying to sell, really expensive clothing?    

 

http://www.barneyswarehouse.com/nili-lotan-silk-maxi-dress-503940279.html?gclid=CM2xg8y3gccCFciFfgod4HUFow

 

http://www.bcbg.com/Alicia-Pleated-Silk-Evening-Gown/725942029895,default,pd.html?pla=1&cm_mmc=PLA-_-DataPop-_-LUB6D989-996&utm_source=CPC&utm_medium=PLA&utm_campaign=BCBG%20PLA%20|%20Nonbrand%20Dresses&cm_mmc=CPC-_-PLA-_-bcbg%20pla%20|%20nonbrand%20dresses-_-&kpid=725942029895&gclid=CIbLpIa3gccCFYlafgodbEEMxg

Edited July 29, 2015 by OhGromit

[walnutqueen]

Sonja is still delusional and ineffectual.  And BTW, there's silk, and then there's silk.  Not all "high end" fabrics are created equally.  Just sayiin' ...

Edited July 29, 2015 by walnutqueen

[zoeysmom]

To me the difference is huge--consider Carole's Le Tigre Silk Couch by Scalamandre--http://www.thesilktoilefabricgenie.com/scletisicutv1.html

 

I just remember Sonja's Talking Head about Heather and asking if Sonja's dress will be at K-mart.  Sonja said something along the lines of K-mart doesn't carry silk evening gowns.

[SweetieDarling]

Thank you for articulating what I felt about Bethenny tonight! Her mocking of Ramona was out of line, IMO. As much as Ramona annoys, I do believe she is looking for a relationship, not a hook-up.

I did a double take as she was talking about how she had to have all these good looking men around because there were single girls who wanted something to look at.  Can you imagine if Joey Gorga threw a party to launch his mobile paper shredding company and had scantily clad model-type women around so that Albie, Chris and Richie Jr would have something nice to look at? -of course he, too, would have an unfortunate wardrobe malfunction. So why is it acceptable for Bethenny to say stuff like that?  And does the woman ever NOT talk about sex?  She must be the most sexually frustrated woman on the planet.

[zoeysmom]

Okay I think I figured out the sizing situation-this flipping dress keeps popping up on my screen--https://www.modaoperandi.com/stella-jean-ss15/mandrillo-dress_2?cgid=&mid=37385&utm_medium=display&utm_source=retargeting2&utm_content=300_dynamic&siteID=J84DHJLQkR4-kkCcq5VNc4oO5H.j.zqdRw&utm_campaign=general

 

Only because I was looking for a Mad Men inspired dress for a party.  I hope I linked the size chart-apparently XXS-XXL is considered Universal sizing. So Sonja dropped the XXS and the XXL and went with XS-XL.  I thought the dress looked very Joan Holloway-I even thought of putting a red temp rinse in my hair but $600 clams for a cotton dress-too rich for my blood.

[bichonblitz]

She places importance on a man's financial status.  Isn't wealth a superficial standard?

We don't really know that, do we? It looks to me like she really loved her husband that passed away. 

[berly57]

I am going to apologize in advance of this post and note that I have only gotten through the first two pages so I don't know if anyone has said anything about this in subsequent posts -- but can we please not use the 'urnthony' name? I admit I am probably really super sensitive to this but having come home to find my fiance dead on our bedroom floor a few year ago, and subsequently cremated, this really bothered me for some reason . . . again, I am sorry if I am causing trouble or offending anyone but it really just seemed super disrespectful. I am the first one to jump on the snark train but giving nicknames to the deceased or to children (i.e. the TM2 posts referring to the babies) just gets to me.e

 

I know that part of the reason for my sensitivity is his birthday is coming up in a few days -- so, again, sorry for -- well, whatever

Edited July 30, 2015 by berly57

[zoeysmom]

I did a double take as she was talking about how she had to have all these good looking men around because there were single girls who wanted something to look at.  Can you imagine if Joey Gorga threw a party to launch his mobile paper shredding company and had scantily clad model-type women around so that Albie, Chris and Richie Jr would have something nice to look at? -of course he, too, would have an unfortunate wardrobe malfunction. So why is it acceptable for Bethenny to say stuff like that?  And does the woman ever NOT talk about sex?  She must be the most sexually frustrated woman on the planet.

Bethenny got way too animated over Ramona's request.  Sometimes Bethenny over does it and it is not entertaining-this from the woman who cried to her step father she had not seen in over 20 years about not being able to have a sex life because she heard him and her mom getting it on after a fight. Also didn't Bethenny say she doesn't want to go down on anyone?   I will say this Bethenny had Ramona pegged in her blog if she wants to move on she or Mario need to move out of the apartment.  Mario got it in the divorce.   Beth needs to look after her sex life not anyone else's.

[zoeysmom]

The Vulture take. http://www.vulture.com/2015/07/real-housewives-of-new-york-city-recap-season-7-episode-17.html It is odd I don't care for Carole and I mostly like Dorinda and I read many comments on here before I  watched and expected interruptions by Dorinda and all I saw was some very real and flowing conversation between the two with a lovely narrative and letter from Carole.  This may be the set of conversations that seemed heartfelt.  I will leave the Skinny Girl review to Bryan. . . no one does it better.

[AnnaMayWong]

I don't know(about Dorinda).

I don't know that Dorinda is not a selfish petty stab you in the back egotist or Ramona-like egoist. However, I do believe that Dorinda is sorrowful over her husband's demise. Buuut...that doesn't negate Dorinda's continuous and scathing upbraiding of Heather, her peculiar propensity to ASSume some one to be a (of a) stereotype then act without true and mature cognition/comprehension of that particular being as A Person, an individual.

I don't know(about Dorinda). Dorinda's unacknowledged extraordinary hypocrisy remains a part of her and its manifestation portrays either astounding unawareness or acute uncaring.

I DO know that even an impercipient may experience the gamut of emotions--and concomitant/attendant intensities--when events pertain to THEM.

[athousandclowns]

I stalled and put off watching last night not knowing if I could bear it being a  new widow myself.   After reading all your posts I am glad I did.   Dorina and Carol in London was really nice to watch.  I am glad they had each other to make that trip and someone to understand what it is like.

[RococoChanel]

Unpopular opinion alert: I think Carole married for money. How do you not know the name of the Father at the church your husband is buried/kept and/or how do you not either a) have the urn with you or b) have seen it within the past 15 years? One would think that would be the thing you guard with your life, if your spouse were to die.

 

It seems to me like she got married to him knowing he was sick and stayed on for the money.

 

I'm just basing it off this episode, and can be totally wrong.

[motorcitymom65]

Unpopular opinion alert: I think Carole married for money. How do you not know the name of the Father at the church your husband is buried/kept and/or how do you not either a) have the urn with you or b) have seen it within the past 15 years? One would think that would be the thing you guard with your life, if your spouse were to die.

 

It seems to me like she got married to him knowing he was sick and stayed on for the money.

 

I'm just basing it off this episode, and can be totally wrong.

I could find lots of reasons to disagree, but the biggest one is that Anthony didn't really have much money. As she has discussed, everyone assumed differently, but he had to work for a living.

[SFoster21]

The view of Sonja's house that we got in the scene with Ramona was so nice. It seemed like a gracious and comfortable area.

[WireWrap]

Unpopular opinion alert: I think Carole married for money. How do you not know the name of the Father at the church your husband is buried/kept and/or how do you not either a) have the urn with you or b) have seen it within the past 15 years? One would think that would be the thing you guard with your life, if your spouse were to die.

 

It seems to me like she got married to him knowing he was sick and stayed on for the money.

 

I'm just basing it off this episode, and can be totally wrong.

Anthony's Urn was placed near his Fathers grave, in a different Church than the 1 we saw on the show. That church was sold for development and the Urn had to be moved, I do not know what happened to his Father though. The Priest was not someone affiliated with the old Church and that is why Carol did not know him.

[Former Nun]

Unpopular opinion alert: I think Carole married for money. How do you not know the name of the Father at the church your husband is buried/kept and/or how do you not either a) have the urn with you or b) have seen it within the past 15 years? One would think that would be the thing you guard with your life, if your spouse were to die.

 

 

Wasn't the story that Carole's husband was buried in a family church in England.  His father's body was in the crypt of St Anne's Church at Divine Mercy College in 1976.  Then...Anthony's ashes were placed in the same crypt at St. Anne's church.  The college closed in 1986 and the property was sold.  Families were given the option to exhume the bodies/ashes.  Various court actions delayed the inevitable.  

 

Eventually Anthony's ashes were sent to a church unaffiliated with Anthony's family.  Carole (or other members of Anthony's family) was notified that arrangements needed to be made for the ashes/urn.  Carole wasn't familiar with the church OR the priest who appeared on the show.  It was obvious he wasn't familiar with her.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Former Nun

[Thumper]

Thanks for these knowledgeable responses. I would just add that priests change over the years; can't expect the same priest to be there for 15 years.

[The Evil One]

I thought it was a really good episode and I have to give credit to the RHONYC editing team for finding, what I found to be, the right balance in the episode. I liked that they let London play out in what felt like a natural (,for reality tv) way, without jerking back to NYC too much or in an artificial way. Giving equal air time to Ramona's horndog ways and Carole picking up the ashes would have felt tacky to me. I felt like they struck the right balance between the weightier London themes and bits of levity with the usual HW's antics back in NY.

I agree with what so many have said about the conversation between Carole and Dorinda - it was a very revealing, heartfelt and genuine conversation. I've been all over the place about my opinion of Dorinda this season, but I liked a lot of the Dorinda I saw this episode.

I haven't read Carole's open letter, but thank those of you who pointed it out, because I'm going to go check it out. I actually haven't read any of her writing (memoir or novel) but am thinking that maybe I will add it my reading list.

[snarkybelle]

I liked this episode.  I know Carole was getting crap on twitter for showing the scene at the church but it's really only traveling to London to pick up an urn and sharing her memories with Dorinda.  I didn't think it was too sacred or personal to show on tv.  It wasn't an actual funeral.  Carole and Dorinda's talk seemed so organic, authentic and heartwarming that they share a common bond both having husbands that died of cancer.  It was almost like a way of healing like in group therapy.  

I read Luann's blog and she made it seem like she knew that Anthony's family wouldn't approve of that scene in the show which I think is hogwash.  Why would Luann think she would know how any of Anthony's relatives felt?  If they are very private why would they tell Luann anything?  

Also, Ramona was a bit silly this episode but I didn't think she was that bad compared to other housewives on other shows.  I know it's not a popular opinion but I still think this show needs her craziness.  Maybe she should tone it down but there needs to be someone that stirs the poop on this show because none of the other housewives have the ovaries to do what she does and that is to get the drama going.  

Edited July 30, 2015 by snarkybelle

[missy jo]

ottergirl I have always thought that Carole's stoner/lighthearted take on life was a reaction to the experience of her marriage, and the intense loss of her friends that came at the same time.  She went deep, and it devastated her, so she's reluctant to go deep again. So she flits around acting like a 20something character from a rom-com, dating rock stars and chefs, and not wanting to hug anyone or get serious, and I get it.  To see her with her guard down was so incredibly touching.  And more so because it came after three seasons (especially this season) of her fighting so hard to be "tough" and "light". 

 

If you haven't read her open letter on the Bravo page, do so.  It was also really powerful.

 

 

I've been through some serious stuff in my life, and so I deliberately chose a frivolous profession (PR, lol), and do a lot of not-so-serious stuff. I just feel like I've BTDT with all the heavy baggage, and that's why I've always empathized with Carole and felt like I understood her. So what if she wants to eat gummy bears and ride on bicycle handlebars? Doesn't bother me.

 

Co-sign on reading the open letter. It breaks the fourth wall and is beautifully written. The real Carole.

 

It was weird that the episode also had a 15 minute Bethenny/Skinnygirl ad in it, featuring appearances from some of the RHONY women, but whatever.  I always skip through the ads anyway.

 

 

I did not care for yet another SG promo.  Beth is nuts! She was incredibly manic and scary.  She did not act like she was drunk, she was speaking a million words a minute.

 

 

Ironically, I now despise the SkinnyGirl brand because of this show. That party could have used a "Pop of Color" [ Kristen ] of SG red, but that was way too much. It looked like the seventh circle of hell.

 

Adderall and/or coke. Take a Xanax, Bethenny!

[HunterHunted]

Constantine Maroulis is all over the place this week. First on RHoNY, now on a La-Z-Boy commercial titled As The Room Turns. I still don't think Ramona would recognize him.

I also agree with everyone that the SG party needed a break from the SG red. Contrast! It's a good thing. I'm sure Bethenny thought that all of the red was a reminder of the SG brand, but who could forget when the logo, the color, and the products were on every surface.

Edited July 30, 2015 by HunterHunted

[breezy424]

Really Lu, you need to move on.  She still needs to throw shade.  From her blog:

 

It’s what we make of our lives that matters, and regardless of how I feel about my friendship with Carole, I feel for her, but I’m not sure how the Radziwills feel about this whole story being played out on television.

 

And then:

 

I can assure you, Ramona was the pilot that night. It was Carole and Heather who broke the #GirlCode, not me. Sonja made a good point about sex on the beach, but for us, that night was about cocktails on the deck and lots of flirting.

 

GirlCode.  Yawn.  And then again she tries to convince that it was 'flirting' but yet admits at the time there was making out.  #St.Barths 2.0

[Trooper York]

John must be feeling pretty good that Dorito described him as a fat rich Armenian.

"Hey she thinks I'm rich."

[HunterHunted]

Really Lu, you need to move on.  She still needs to throw shade.  From her blog:

 

It’s what we make of our lives that matters, and regardless of how I feel about my friendship with Carole, I feel for her, but I’m not sure how the Radziwills feel about this whole story being played out on television.

 

And then:

 

I can assure you, Ramona was the pilot that night. It was Carole and Heather who broke the #GirlCode, not me. Sonja made a good point about sex on the beach, but for us, that night was about cocktails on the deck and lots of flirting.

 

GirlCode.  Yawn.  And then again she tries to convince that it was 'flirting' but yet admits at the time there was making out.  #St.Barths 2.0

LuAnn is so THIRSTY! She was demoted last season because of her failure/refusal to bring it. I don't think she wants to make the same mistake. That's why everything is a capital offense this season.

[Granimal]

I really felt for Carole last night.

 

When I was a child, my mother married a man who had cancer. As with Anthony, at first it was just kind of a fact in the background, over time it became huge- our main focus in life, and eventually we lost him. As a preteen at this point, I was immediately sent to a relative's house and wasn't allowed at the funeral. To this day, I haven't asked why- perhaps she blamed me. By the time I was back home, we never spoke of it again.

 

I eventually bought Carole's book What Remains for our shared kindle library, hoping that it would fill in some of the blanks. I thought that it would help me understand my mother's feelings. I have now read it twice! (My mother doesn't seem interested in reading it.) Each time I come away particularly remembering her wild and exotic (to me) childhood, her career, and her constant obsessing over John and Carolyn's last moments. For some reason, I can never remember Anthony's story. After the lump, my mind is a complete blank.  So I was particularly interested last night to hear her talk about Anthony.

 

I was never one who was particularly annoyed by Carole before, but I think Carole and I share a sense of humor that often makes us look awkward or is often misinterpreted by other people. And we both get uncomfortable with hugs and crying! I don't see Carole very often, but I loved her last night. I went from having no opinion of her to her being my favorite of the bunch. I loved her talking about how she could've been a mother- but life had other plans.  Its ridiculous to me that people are giving her crap on twitter or wherever. It's her story to tell! She wrote a book about Anthony! Should that have not been published either?

 

Last night's episode was my favorite episode of RH so far.

 

Okay, then we switch to party mode. Another Skinnygirl promotion! So excited to try those new flavors. Ha. Ramona acted like Ramona. When she said, "He's a bartender," I wish someone had thrown a Skinnygirl Cosmorita right into her new face. There's nothing that I hate more than when people act elitist- particularly when said individual has inherited or married into wealth.

 

Unpopular opinion- Did Sonya seem somewhat more coherent in last night's episode? I know that I'm referring to a woman who's highpoint last episode was ripping her tooth out on a man's shirt, and then saying that veterinarians would fix it, but she seemed more on this planet than she usually does. Like at least this time I could understand what she was saying.

 

I liked last night's London trip. I think that if Heather goes*- they shouldn't replace her. There are too many HWs as it is, and I'd rather see this one-on-one type of activities than whatever party/fight they script for us.

 

*And takes Kristin with her.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Granimal

[bravofan27]

My thoughts so far. Carole's blue gloves I thought were "plastic gloves" or disposable gloves. I've seen those bright blue things on cleaning people and nurses and stuff. Especially the ones that draw blood, they always wear the blue gloves. I finally realized they were actual gloves. I actually thought she wore plastic gloves since was going through ashes somewhere.

 

Funny-- when Dorinda invited her friends in London for a "proper" cocktail party (which I assume means one drink and lots of pills or coke or something) and all these homely ladies came being vapid. Carole said, "I invited my friends" in her voiceover and I thought, "wow! Carole has girlfriends in London? She doesn't seem like a friend person." and then all these young white guys showed up. The young men were her friends! hahahaha. Oh gosh, she's basically Ramona, only more stealth about her horniness.. 

 

Ramona is a hoot. I just love her. She makes me laugh because she is so goofy and weird. I just think she is fun. 

[SCS]

Unpopular opinion alert: I think Carole married for money. How do you not know the name of the Father at the church your husband is buried/kept and/or how do you not either a) have the urn with you or b) have seen it within the past 15 years? One would think that would be the thing you guard with your life, if your spouse were to die.

 

It seems to me like she got married to him knowing he was sick and stayed on for the money.

 

I could find lots of reasons to disagree, but the biggest one is that Anthony didn't really have much money. As she has discussed, everyone assumed differently, but he had to work for a living.

I fall between both these thoughts. Urnthony did work (as do many peeps with family money, eg, JFK Jr) but his mother had married well multiple times and we have no idea if he had an established and healthy private income beyond his career salary. Plus, he may have had significant life insurance policies in place. Carole may not be a one-percenter but hurting for funds? I doubt it.

[Granimal]

Didn't Carole not know the name of the Father of the church, because the urn had switched churches by the time she got there?

 

As someone who's mother married a man who had cancer (and money), I'm willing to believe that Carole married Anthony for more than his money. I think their relationship was less "romantic" than some, but I don't think that makes their partnership a less valuable one.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Granimal

[phoenix780]

thought it was a really good episode and I have to give credit to the RHONYC editing team for finding, what I found to be, the right balance in the episode. I liked that they let London play out in what felt like a natural (,for reality tv) way, without jerking back to NYC too much or in an artificial way. Giving equal air time to Ramona's horndog ways and Carole picking up the ashes would have felt tacky to me. I felt like they struck the right balance between the weightier London themes and bits of levity with the usual HW's antics back in NY.

 

A million times this.  Frankly, I think this is my favorite season of Housewives ever, with my favorite cast.  I feel like everyone has a balance and...depth that you don't often get to see on reality tv, especially this franchise, and I'm sort of amazed production is pulling that off with a cast this large.  It's actually making it hard for me to discuss the show as much, because I don't feel particularly snarky towards anyone...at least not in a deep-seated way.  Also, as much as I feel like part of the Bethenney-Heather drama was positioning for the show, I think this is one of the most authentic seasons ever.  Even presented by Skinnygirl.  

 

This episode in particular, as others have said I appreciated the Carole/Dorinda conversation.  I love how it was bookended with Dorinda hitting her head on the window then referencing that moment.  I thought Carole in the car back to London with the ashes was full-out real, because to me she seemed to be trying to avoid the weird reality of being filmed in that moment by immediately putting on headphones and looking out the window.  I also appreciated the genuine awkwardness of her conversation with the priest, because she's usually pretty together and witty, probably because most of her comments are in TH's not necessarily in the moment. 

 

In the second half, during the commerical for Skinnygirl I enjoyed seeing a couple of Bethenney's other sides- she's a helluva pitchwoman, imho.  Ending with the tooth-falling boob-escaping conversation was clever, in my opinion.  And the lack of any drama made me feel like it was the first fun HW party in years, though I will not attribute this to Skinnygirl and thus go buy their products.  

So yeah, I'm loving this show right now.

 

John must be feeling pretty good that Dorito described him as a fat rich Armenian.

 

In my mind there was a second part that Dorinda cut off that was something like "with a big dick," so I think John's fine.

 

Random side note- I loved seeing Trinny from What Not To Wear because I miss those shows (I lump it in with Changing Rooms, which I can't find anywhere).

Edited July 30, 2015 by phoenix780

[zoeysmom]

I could find lots of reasons to disagree, but the biggest one is that Anthony didn't really have much money. As she has discussed, everyone assumed differently, but he had to work for a living.

Over on the Carole blog I posted a link to Jackie Onassis's will.  She left Anthony $500,000.00 when she passed away.  Not a lifetime fortune but a nice little nest egg.

[swankie]

My point was lost. . .if the end result of game is getting the guy, Ramona's moves worked.  Much to my chagrin. He had the ability to walk away or excuse himself in two hours.  If nothing else a nature call-even Ramona can't deny a bathroom break.   I thought she was rude to take up his time instead of taking back to the table and meet with the other women.  BTW Bethenny standing behind the guy squawking about Ramona being hyper sexual was bad game as well.  All in all I think Ramona objectifies men.  Don't see anything different in last night's episode.  There were guys she could have laughed and danced and had a goodtime but she was in the zone and booked out of there blaming Bethenny for lack of selection.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Bethenny explained in her TH during that scene that the owner was a friend of a friend of hers and she went to greet him and took Carole with her since both Carole and the guy were single.  I think she was put out by Ramona's blatant rude gesture because she interrupted Bethenny's match making scheme plus, once again, Ramona was acting like the entitled asshole she had been portraying the whole trip.

[zoeysmom]

Didn't Carole not know the name of the Father of the church, because the urn had switched churches by the time she got there?

 

As someone who's mother married a man who had cancer (and money), I don't agree that Carole married Anthony for money. I think their relationship was less "romantic" than some, but I don't think that makes their partnership a less valuable one.

Carole is pretty succinct in her Open Letter.   There is no mention of switching churches.   She said she received an e-mail from the church where she interned her husband's ashes.  Perhaps there is another source of the church switch.

[zoeysmom]

If I'm not mistaken, Bethenny explained in her TH during that scene that the owner was a friend of a friend of hers and she went to greet him and took Carole with her since both Carole and the guy were single.  I think she was put out by Ramona's blatant rude gesture because she interrupted Bethenny's match making scheme plus, once again, Ramona was acting like the entitled asshole she had been portraying the whole trip.

Okay, Heather told Ramona about it and the rest of the ladies gave Ramona quite the send off to meet the guy and Heather got a chuckle out of sending her in spite of Carole and Bethenny being there.  I think Carole was seeing Adam or at least she objected to how Ramona characterized their relationship the next day.  Bethenny and Carole's game was to get his attention by asking to play bartender, Ramona's game was to have the waiter take her to the target. 

I just think it is odd to feel so interrupted and not walk around and rejoin the conversation.  Bust Ramona then and not wait until the next day.   Instead Carole and Bethenny stood a foot away talking about Ramona.  To me if the end game was getting the guy's attention/company for the evening Ramona won.  I do not think she has a good game but she was the one who came out on top. 

 

One thing about both Bethenny and Carole, which makes for great reality TV stars, is they do the Greek chorus thing very well.  To me, it seemed the guy would rather listen to Ramona talk about ask about his muscles then listen to Bethenny and Carole recount their trip to the island to date.  This nonsense of talking about Ramona sticking her boobs out or greed of the 80's says more about the speaker than the doer.  It is funny because Carole goes after Luann for Luann calling Carole out for hitting on the help but then she engages in similar behavior about Ramona and her game.

 

I don't like Ramona and I think she is socially retarded and watching her is painful but this episode Bethenny screeching and carry on about finding Ramona a man, and the bounty on her vagina is the bad side of Bethenny  as a reality star.  She seemed intoxicated or in total show off mode.

[ScoobieDoobs]

The view of Sonja's house that we got in the scene with Ramona was so nice. It seemed like a gracious and comfortable area.

 

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong -- at least right now.  There is a construction site across the street from her townhouse & the noise starts when I've passed by as early as 7 in the morning (on my way to the subway) & as late as 6 at nite, when I pass by on my way home.  Looks like they're building a high-rise there, which will take at least several years.  For the time being, life in that townhouse must be absolutely horrible.  And it also sits right next to a 24/7 extremely busy garage.  Yikes!

 

Her townhouse is by far the tiniest on the block.  Oh btw, I passed by the other nite & yes, all her lights were on.  And EVERY other townhouse on the block was dark, dark, dark.  Guess poor broke Sonja is the only one on that block home this summer.  Ah well, I hope Moaner at least has invited her out to the Hamptons.

 

Still, I like her townhouse.  And it does look charming from the outside -- altho, man, do the ceilings inside look really low or what?  She was right to do everything in her power to hold onto it.  It's gotta be worth at least 5 or 6 mil now, despite its tiny size & being right next to the busy garage.  It's on a rather nice block & the neighborhood is nice, so I'm sure it will increase quite a bit in value in the coming years.

 

Unpopular opinion alert: I think Carole married for money. How do you not know the name of the Father at the church your husband is buried/kept and/or how do you not either a) have the urn with you or b) have seen it within the past 15 years? One would think that would be the thing you guard with your life, if your spouse were to die.

 

It seems to me like she got married to him knowing he was sick and stayed on for the money.

 

I'm just basing it off this episode, and can be totally wrong.

 

Well, I have several friends who knew Anthony quite well.  They ALL said he was a genuinely nice guy, very unpretentious, hard-working, charming & good-humored -- similar to the way Carole describes him.  And we see in photos, while he wasn't as exceptionally good-looking as John-John was, he certainly was very handsome.  Is Carole the type to marry for money?  Doesn't seem like it to me.  But it's not my business if she is.  And who on this show hasn't married for money -- except for Bethenny?  And Bethenny ONLY seems to date guys with money -- er, except for Jason 2.0, that is.

 

Anyhoo, Anthony certainly didn't have tons of dough like his cousin John-John did, but he definitely had a very privileged childhood.  Lee Radziwell married several wealthy men, but none had the level of wealth of Jackie's husbands (particularly Onassis).  Lee is comfortable now, but definitely nowhere near super-wealthy, as Jackie was when she died.  Carole is clearly not super-wealthy either.

Edited July 30, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Pollock]

a) have the urn with you or b) have seen it within the past 15 years? One would think that would be the thing you guard with your life, if your spouse were to die.

Not against you as a fellow human but I take offense with that comment. Maybe I'm reading to much into it but I will do my drama queen for a moment either way!

 

There you go : my father died 6 months ago. He was loved. My mother-in-law, devastated, chose to scatter some ashes in the Mediterranée. My sister and I reserved some of it before we did. I scattered some two months ago in the Atlantic when I went, my sister in the Indian ocean where she lives, and I still got a little bit in a kitchen cabinet, in a tupperware (not even a real brand one, a cheap plastic box) in case I go someday in Thailand on the beach he loved and couldn't go back to because of his fucking cancer. All of that we did just to make us feel better about his death. 

Are we bad daughters to not keep them safely in a beautiful urn? Is my mother-in-law a bad wife? Does it means we didn't love Dad? Or my MIL married him for his money and now that he's dead, couldn't wait to get rid of it?

 

It's just a box, it's just ashes. My dad doesn't care anymore, he's dead. I don't believe in "the soul" just in consciousness, I don't believe in God or life after death, he didn't either. For some, ashes are just that, ashes, something that looks curiously like cat litter. Those ashes aren't my father. This box isn't his final home.

Had he wished to be burried, I wouldn't have gone visit his grave after his burrial. The ceremony would have been the last time I ever saw it. It's just a stone, it's just a body, my Dad isn't in it anymore, why should I care about meat I won't eat? If my mother-in-law didn't want to scatter the ashes and wanted to keep them, I wouldn't have cared not being able to scatter some myself (even if I prefer we did it that way) and I certainly wouldn't visit her mantelpiece twice a year.

 

Why judge the love Carole had for Anthony based on what happened to his urn or that she didn't go look at it for 15 years even if she travels a lot? If you must, judge from her book, from what she said but please don't judge because of a tradition some might not adhere to or what your take on this tradition is. People honor their dead differently from burial to cannibalism, grief is an intimate thing and unique to each person.

Imho, what remains of the people we love who had the nerves to die on us is our memories of them. It's what we do with those that matters.